Decoupler and Solid Shaft

No doubt this issue has been done to death but I was just wondering. I see a few Syncro people have replaced their VC with a solid shaft. I see one guy even took out the silicon and filled it with fibreglass (this would give the same effect I guess but would be a lot cheaper). I assume that this means when the decoupler is not engaged the vehicle is in constant 4WD. This would be fine off road and give alkl the benifits of 2WD on the bitumen. But isn't this getting away from the original concept of a Syncro with its innovative 4WD VC system. Or maybe it is just a practical way to deal with 20 year old vehicles!!!

Just curious on this wet Mid North Coast Evening.

Peter
I have heard mixed views on this but one interesting one from the Busman's site which said that the VC does not quite provide 100% drive to the front wheels and hence is less effective off-road especially in deep sand/ mud than syncros with a solid shaft.
 
On road benefits of a slightly aggressive yet working VC are great - they handle like they are on rails - sort of.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: anni43elli
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 9:21 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

No doubt this issue has been done to death but I was just wondering. I see a few Syncro people have replaced their VC with a solid shaft. I see one guy even took out the silicon and filled it with fibreglass (this would give the same effect I guess but would be a lot cheaper). I assume that this means when the decoupler is not engaged the vehicle is in constant 4WD. This would be fine off road and give alkl the benifits of 2WD on the bitumen. But isn't this getting away from the original concept of a Syncro with its innovative 4WD VC system. Or maybe it is just a practical way to deal with 20 year old vehicles!!!

Just curious on this wet Mid North Coast Evening.

Peter

Peter,
Yeah this has been done to death, but no, VW did want to build what you say, the 2WD/4WD/decoupler/solid shaft setup but the bean counters had the last say and it pretty much got canned. Bean counters said what will sell most is a no brainer setup so they went for the VC instead and the purists ever since dip their lid to VAG every other day believing they got it right and stick with it come what may.  Except me of course ... haha. Funny how so many now want a decoupler to save their VCs. I don't see a great difference between a solid shaft and an aggressive VC anyway.
Cheers.
Ken 
 

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: peter@coeconsult.com.au
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 11:21:42 +0000
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 
No doubt this issue has been done to death but I was just wondering. I see a few Syncro people have replaced their VC with a solid shaft. I see one guy even took out the silicon and filled it with fibreglass (this would give the same effect I guess but would be a lot cheaper). I assume that this means when the decoupler is not engaged the vehicle is in constant 4WD. This would be fine off road and give alkl the benifits of 2WD on the bitumen. But isn't this getting away from the original concept of a Syncro with its innovative 4WD VC system. Or maybe it is just a practical way to deal with 20 year old vehicles!!!

Just curious on this wet Mid North Coast Evening.

Peter




Find it on Domain.com.au Need a new place to live?
Peter,
When decoupled the vehicle is in 2WD.When coupled the vehicle is in AWD.
There is definate advantages to being in AWD on the pavement.Handling,steering,braking,traction.
Your VC has a duty cycle and one day will become''agressive'' or''passive''
When it turns aggressive,buy a decoupler.Or a new or reco VC then a decoupler.
When/if it turns passive,buy a new or reco VC, then a decoupler.Or do away with the VC and get a Solid Shaft and a decoupler.
You cannot drive on the pavement with a solid shaft without doing drivetrain damage.
If your VC is aggressive,without a decoupler,on road,you will damage your drivetrain whilst performing tight turns.
If your VC is ''passive'' you will have trouble getting up a gutter.
Solid Shaft Syncros perform better in extreme 4WD conditions.
A Viscous Coupling transmits torque,when there is a difference in speeds,between wheels.
A difference in tyre size,tyre pressure,road surface,road camber,tyre size,heat,speed etc will cause the VC to operate.(transmit torque)
To avoid drivetrain damage whilst performing tight turns on pavement,a decoupler is used.You can drive around in Syncro and decouple to drive-thru at Maccas.Or drive around in 2WD and couple up to drive on the beach.On the fly ,without stopping.Cool hey.
Syncro,Quattro,4 motion is a unique viscous coupled AWD system used by VW/Audi/Porshe with great succses.Way before computer operated AWD systems.
A Solid shaft replaces the viscous coupling.
A decoupler,whilst coupled transmits torque to the viscous coupling then to the front wheels.
If you make one little bit of sense out of anything I have just said,it has to be, buy a decoupler.They are worth every cent.
All the neccesary info on any of this topic is properly decoed in the files section.Now,you make your own choice...
--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "anni43elli" <peter@...> wrote:
>
> No doubt this issue has been done to death but I was just wondering. I see a few Syncro people have replaced their VC with a solid shaft. I see one guy even took out the silicon and filled it with fibreglass (this would give the same effect I guess but would be a lot cheaper). I assume that this means when the decoupler is not engaged the vehicle is in constant 4WD. This would be fine off road and give alkl the benifits of 2WD on the bitumen. But isn't this getting away from the original concept of a Syncro with its innovative 4WD VC system. Or maybe it is just a practical way to deal with 20 year old vehicles!!!
>
> Just curious on this wet Mid North Coast Evening.
>
> Peter
>
Ken.
As you know an aggressive VC will still allow you to drive on road if you avoid tight turns.
With a solid shaft pavement driving is a must not.
Even with an aggressive VC,Syncro is an AWD system.
With a solid shaft and decoupler like yours Ken,it is now a selectable 4WD system.
With a VC and a decoupler Syncro is a selectable AWD system.
I wouldnt mind one of those fibreglass filled VCs though?????

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> Peter,
>
> Yeah this has been done to death, but no, VW did want to build what you say, the 2WD/4WD/decoupler/solid shaft setup but the bean counters had the last say and it pretty much got canned. Bean counters said what will sell most is a no brainer setup so they went for the VC instead and the purists ever since dip their lid to VAG every other day believing they got it right and stick with it come what may. Except me of course ... haha. Funny how so many now want a decoupler to save their VCs. I don't see a great difference between a solid shaft and an aggressive VC anyway.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: peter@...
> Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 11:21:42 +0000
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Decoupler and Solid Shaft
>
>
>
>
>
> No doubt this issue has been done to death but I was just wondering. I see a few Syncro people have replaced their VC with a solid shaft. I see one guy even took out the silicon and filled it with fibreglass (this would give the same effect I guess but would be a lot cheaper). I assume that this means when the decoupler is not engaged the vehicle is in constant 4WD. This would be fine off road and give alkl the benifits of 2WD on the bitumen. But isn't this getting away from the original concept of a Syncro with its innovative 4WD VC system. Or maybe it is just a practical way to deal with 20 year old vehicles!!!
>
> Just curious on this wet Mid North Coast Evening.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Need a new place to live? Find it on Domain.com.au
> http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/
>

‘I assume....... is in constant 4w drive” unquote........No Peter, when the decoupler is NOT engaged you are NOT in 4x4 drive, what it means so, when you have a solid shaft in your front diff, instead of a VC , it means that your driveshaft will be turned by the front axle. However because your decoupler is not engaged there is NO connection to the rear gearbox, the drivetrain is Decoupled. Hartis

 

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of anni43elli
Sent: Thursday, 3 June 2010 9:22 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

 

No doubt this issue has been done to death but I was just wondering. I see a few Syncro people have replaced their VC with a solid shaft. I see one guy even took out the silicon and filled it with fibreglass (this would give the same effect I guess but would be a lot cheaper). I assume that this means when the decoupler is not engaged the vehicle is in constant 4WD. This would be fine off road and give alkl the benifits of 2WD on the bitumen. But isn't this getting away from the original concept of a Syncro with its innovative 4WD VC system. Or maybe it is just a practical way to deal with 20 year old vehicles!!!

Just curious on this wet Mid North Coast Evening.

Peter

Heh Ben, Peter and ALL,
 
Pertinent and timely references that offer clarity from known contributors with standing.
 
First see the attached extract pdf file.
 
Also goto: http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/vanagon/viscous_couplings_vanagon_syncro.htm
 
Throughout these doccos are the worrisome pointers to the risks associated with ongoing use of a "beyond service life" unit that is what's affectionately known as an "aggressive VC". Meaning an overworking and when it shouldn't be, out of spec VC.
 
In my view, the fundamental distinction between an aggressive VC v solid shaft coupling is that, whereas the solid shaft owner knows only too well not to couple a solid shaft on hard surfaces, so many "aggressive VC" owners by choice discount that primary concern in favour of a perceived advantage of a "safer" driving experience. Many others simply ignore or are oblivious to the risk.
 
So the consequences for using either a solid shaft OR an aggressive VC in this way is likely premature failure of either/and/or the gearbox/differential/CV joints etc. So when it happens and while at it, add insult to injury and belatedly R&R that culprit VC too. That's also a good time to reflect upon how all this was unnecessary, untimely, very inconvenient and extremely expensive.
 
A decoupler is one solution for the above circumstances, solves this and other operational issues provided one does the prudent thing and utilises 2WD functionality for hard surfaces and 4WD for giving surfaces. Hard pill to swallow?
 
Or else do yourselves a favour. For peace of mind, run a factory spec VC, just as VAG designed, intended & recommends.
 
Feel free to ignore all this. Your syncro and your wallet might in due course wish you hadn't.
 
Cheers.
Ken 
 
 

 



To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: bencroft96@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 13:50:36 +0000
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 
Ken.
As you know an aggressive VC will still allow you to drive on road if you avoid tight turns.
With a solid shaft pavement driving is a must not.
Even with an aggressive VC,Syncro is an AWD system.
With a solid shaft and decoupler like yours Ken,it is now a selectable 4WD system.
With a VC and a decoupler Syncro is a selectable AWD system.
I wouldnt mind one of those fibreglass filled VCs though?????

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> Peter,
>
> Yeah this has been done to death, but no, VW did want to build what you say, the 2WD/4WD/decoupler/solid shaft setup but the bean counters had the last say and it pretty much got canned. Bean counters said what will sell most is a no brainer setup so they went for the VC instead and the purists ever since dip their lid to VAG every other day believing they got it right and stick with it come what may. Except me of course ... haha. Funny how so many now want a decoupler to save their VCs. I don't see a great difference between a solid shaft and an aggressive VC anyway.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: peter@...
> Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 11:21:42 +0000
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Decoupler and Solid Shaft
>
>
>
>
>
> No doubt this issue has been done to death but I was just wondering. I see a few Syncro people have replaced their VC with a solid shaft. I see one guy even took out the silicon and filled it with fibreglass (this would give the same effect I guess but would be a lot cheaper). I assume that this means when the decoupler is not engaged the vehicle is in constant 4WD. This would be fine off road and give alkl the benifits of 2WD on the bitumen. But isn't this getting away from the original concept of a Syncro with its innovative 4WD VC system. Or maybe it is just a practical way to deal with 20 year old vehicles!!!
>
> Just curious on this wet Mid North Coast Evening.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Need a new place to live? Find it on Domain.com.au
> http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/
>




Australia's #1 job site If It Exists, You'll Find it on SEEK
Ken,
 
I have noticed a massive improvement in driveability of my syncro with the VC connected as compared to without it connected. With the central driveshaft removed it handles like a 2wd and much less solid than in 4wd.
 
I previously left the driveshaft removed to reduce front tyre wear but the boss kept complaining it doesn't drive well and brake well compared to when it is connected. As she always has something I want  - I do what I'm told.
 
The syncro even reverses down my steep curvy driveway better in 4wd even with the clutch in. This I don't understand! But it happens.
 
Hence for a few reasons mine stays on.
 
Cheers,
 
Skot
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:13 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

Heh Ben, Peter and ALL,
 
Pertinent and timely references that offer clarity from known contributors with standing.
 
First see the attached extract pdf file.
 
Also goto: http://users. rcn.com/derekdre w/vanagon/ viscous_coupling s_vanagon_ syncro.htm
 
Throughout these doccos are the worrisome pointers to the risks associated with ongoing use of a "beyond service life" unit that is what's affectionately known as an "aggressive VC". Meaning an overworking and when it shouldn't be, out of spec VC.
 
In my view, the fundamental distinction between an aggressive VC v solid shaft coupling is that, whereas the solid shaft owner knows only too well not to couple a solid shaft on hard surfaces, so many "aggressive VC" owners by choice discount that primary concern in favour of a perceived advantage of a "safer" driving experience. Many others simply ignore or are oblivious to the risk.
 
So the consequences for using either a solid shaft OR an aggressive VC in this way is likely premature failure of either/and/or the gearbox/differentia l/CV joints etc. So when it happens and while at it, add insult to injury and belatedly R&R that culprit VC too. That's also a good time to reflect upon how all this was unnecessary, untimely, very inconvenient and extremely expensive.
 
A decoupler is one solution for the above circumstances, solves this and other operational issues provided one does the prudent thing and utilises 2WD functionality for hard surfaces and 4WD for giving surfaces. Hard pill to swallow?
 
Or else do yourselves a favour. For peace of mind, run a factory spec VC, just as VAG designed, intended & recommends.
 
Feel free to ignore all this. Your syncro and your wallet might in due course wish you hadn't.
 
Cheers.
Ken 
 
 

 



To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
From: bencroft96@yahoo. com
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 13:50:36 +0000
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 
Ken.
As you know an aggressive VC will still allow you to drive on road if you avoid tight turns.
With a solid shaft pavement driving is a must not.
Even with an aggressive VC,Syncro is an AWD system.
With a solid shaft and decoupler like yours Ken,it is now a selectable 4WD system.
With a VC and a decoupler Syncro is a selectable AWD system.
I wouldnt mind one of those fibreglass filled VCs though?????

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@.. .> wrote:
>
>
> Peter,
>
> Yeah this has been done to death, but no, VW did want to build what you say, the 2WD/4WD/decoupler/ solid shaft setup but the bean counters had the last say and it pretty much got canned. Bean counters said what will sell most is a no brainer setup so they went for the VC instead and the purists ever since dip their lid to VAG every other day believing they got it right and stick with it come what may. Except me of course ... haha. Funny how so many now want a decoupler to save their VCs. I don't see a great difference between a solid shaft and an aggressive VC anyway.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> From: peter@...
> Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 11:21:42 +0000
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Decoupler and Solid Shaft
>
>
>
>
>
> No doubt this issue has been done to death but I was just wondering. I see a few Syncro people have replaced their VC with a solid shaft. I see one guy even took out the silicon and filled it with fibreglass (this would give the same effect I guess but would be a lot cheaper). I assume that this means when the decoupler is not engaged the vehicle is in constant 4WD. This would be fine off road and give alkl the benifits of 2WD on the bitumen. But isn't this getting away from the original concept of a Syncro with its innovative 4WD VC system. Or maybe it is just a practical way to deal with 20 year old vehicles!!!
>
> Just curious on this wet Mid North Coast Evening.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Need a new place to live? Find it on Domain.com.au
> http://clk.atdmt. com/NMN/go/ 157631292/ direct/01/
>




Australia's #1 job site If It Exists, You'll Find it on SEEK

Despite the confusing involving whether a decouple is engaged or disengaged ..
the other part of the discussion , the way I see it is ...
if you want to retain AWD capability for pavement use ( highly recommended ) keep the VC.
 
when you replace the VC ( hadn't heard of that fiberglass idea before ) with a solid shaft, then you can only have all 4 wheels driven on dirt and off road .......loosing half the brillinat of a Syncro.
 
what I recommend is a Decoupler and keep the VC.
Advantages to having a Decoupler -
can run in rear wheel drive only if you want ( van feels better at speed with all wheels driven though )
you can get towed like a 'normal' rear wheel drive car by a tow truck.
you can carry and use an oddball size or worn spare tire - no need for 4 identical size and type tyres.
If you want to run the van on jackstands in gear ... for diagnostic reasons ...say you suspect rumbly rear wheel bearings ...
 doing that with just the rear wheels off the ground is fairly safe if you are careful. Running a syncro in the air with all four wheels spinning can be pretty scary.
 
and I suppose if a decouple is 'engaged' that would be all wheels driven.
and 'disengaged would be rear wheel drive only, though I just talk about if it's in 2WD or AWD.
 
btw....if you put in a solid shaft instead of keeping the VC, you will have better off road performance ...
but you should call your van 4WD then, and not AWD..       To be considered real All Wheel Drive ....that means all 4 wheels driven full time, and there is at least some  front-to-rear differential affect, which is one of the functions of the VC.
 
what fun Syncro's are !
Scott
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 3:28 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

‘I assume...... . is in constant 4w drive” unquote..... ...No Peter, when the decoupler is NOT engaged you are NOT in 4x4 drive, what it means so, when you have a solid shaft in your front diff, instead of a VC , it means that your driveshaft will be turned by the front axle. However because your decoupler is not engaged there is NO connection to the rear gearbox, the drivetrain is Decoupled. Hartis

From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of anni43elli
Sent: Thursday, 3 June 2010 9:22 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

No doubt this issue has been done to death but I was just wondering. I see a few Syncro people have replaced their VC with a solid shaft. I see one guy even took out the silicon and filled it with fibreglass (this would give the same effect I guess but would be a lot cheaper). I assume that this means when the decoupler is not engaged the vehicle is in constant 4WD. This would be fine off road and give alkl the benifits of 2WD on the bitumen. But isn't this getting away from the original concept of a Syncro with its innovative 4WD VC system. Or maybe it is just a practical way to deal with 20 year old vehicles!!!

Just curious on this wet Mid North Coast Evening.

Peter

Skot
 
I agree wholeheartedly that Syncros drive better with AWD/VC in place on the open road,where I/we do most of our higher speed driving.
Recently, for the first time in twenty years of driving this Syncro I removed the drive shaft to ascertain wether my diff whine was front or rear diff.
After returning to the Central Coast from Sydney sans shaft (100ks) I entered a roundabout at my normal speed,albeit a damp road and completely lost the backend. Swift correction was called for but it made me realise what completely different vehicles they are with and without AWD.
My VC is fairly aggressive so I drive around the block if possible rather than U turn.
A Decoupler is on the cards, but not essential as I prefer AWD permanently.
Solid shaft, not required for 90/10 bitumin/dirt.
 
Cheers Graham
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

Ken,
 
I have noticed a massive improvement in driveability of my syncro with the VC connected as compared to without it connected. With the central driveshaft removed it handles like a 2wd and much less solid than in 4wd.
 
I previously left the driveshaft removed to reduce front tyre wear but the boss kept complaining it doesn't drive well and brake well compared to when it is connected. As she always has something I want  - I do what I'm told.
 
The syncro even reverses down my steep curvy driveway better in 4wd even with the clutch in. This I don't understand! But it happens.
 
Hence for a few reasons mine stays on.
 
Cheers,
 
Skot
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:13 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

Heh Ben, Peter and ALL,
 
Pertinent and timely references that offer clarity from known contributors with standing.
 
First see the attached extract pdf file.
 
Also goto: http://users. rcn.com/derekdre w/vanagon/ viscous_coupling s_vanagon_ syncro.htm
 
Throughout these doccos are the worrisome pointers to the risks associated with ongoing use of a "beyond service life" unit that is what's affectionately known as an "aggressive VC". Meaning an overworking and when it shouldn't be, out of spec VC.
 
In my view, the fundamental distinction between an aggressive VC v solid shaft coupling is that, whereas the solid shaft owner knows only too well not to couple a solid shaft on hard surfaces, so many "aggressive VC" owners by choice discount that primary concern in favour of a perceived advantage of a "safer" driving experience. Many others simply ignore or are oblivious to the risk.
 
So the consequences for using either a solid shaft OR an aggressive VC in this way is likely premature failure of either/and/or the gearbox/differentia l/CV joints etc. So when it happens and while at it, add insult to injury and belatedly R&R that culprit VC too. That's also a good time to reflect upon how all this was unnecessary, untimely, very inconvenient and extremely expensive.
 
A decoupler is one solution for the above circumstances, solves this and other operational issues provided one does the prudent thing and utilises 2WD functionality for hard surfaces and 4WD for giving surfaces. Hard pill to swallow?
 
Or else do yourselves a favour. For peace of mind, run a factory spec VC, just as VAG designed, intended & recommends.
 
Feel free to ignore all this. Your syncro and your wallet might in due course wish you hadn't.
 
Cheers.
Ken 
 
 

 



To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
From: bencroft96@yahoo. com
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 13:50:36 +0000
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 
Ken.
As you know an aggressive VC will still allow you to drive on road if you avoid tight turns.
With a solid shaft pavement driving is a must not.
Even with an aggressive VC,Syncro is an AWD system.
With a solid shaft and decoupler like yours Ken,it is now a selectable 4WD system.
With a VC and a decoupler Syncro is a selectable AWD system.
I wouldnt mind one of those fibreglass filled VCs though?????

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@.. .> wrote:
>
>
> Peter,
>
> Yeah this has been done to death, but no, VW did want to build what you say, the 2WD/4WD/decoupler/ solid shaft setup but the bean counters had the last say and it pretty much got canned. Bean counters said what will sell most is a no brainer setup so they went for the VC instead and the purists ever since dip their lid to VAG every other day believing they got it right and stick with it come what may. Except me of course ... haha. Funny how so many now want a decoupler to save their VCs. I don't see a great difference between a solid shaft and an aggressive VC anyway.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> From: peter@...
> Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 11:21:42 +0000
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Decoupler and Solid Shaft
>
>
>
>
>
> No doubt this issue has been done to death but I was just wondering. I see a few Syncro people have replaced their VC with a solid shaft. I see one guy even took out the silicon and filled it with fibreglass (this would give the same effect I guess but would be a lot cheaper). I assume that this means when the decoupler is not engaged the vehicle is in constant 4WD. This would be fine off road and give alkl the benifits of 2WD on the bitumen. But isn't this getting away from the original concept of a Syncro with its innovative 4WD VC system. Or maybe it is just a practical way to deal with 20 year old vehicles!!!
>
> Just curious on this wet Mid North Coast Evening.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Need a new place to live? Find it on Domain.com.au
> http://clk.atdmt. com/NMN/go/ 157631292/ direct/01/
>




Australia's #1 job site If It Exists, You'll Find it on SEEK

Hi Graham, Skot et al,

 

This is something I used to preach for years. Perhaps I had the advantage of moving from a 2wd T3 directly to a Syncro, and seeing the difference. I’ve never understood the enthusiasm for moving back to an old-fashioned selectable 4wd system when VW designed a cutting edge (for its day) AWD system. Maybe it comes from America , where the best selling ‘car’ is still a Ford F series truck. Last time I checked (admittedly several years ago now) a brand new VC (from Derek Drew in my case) was quite a bit cheaper than a decoupler, and an easier install (considering vacuum lines etc, and no core to return). You can then expect at least another 100,00Km (and probably a lot more as an enthusiast who will look after the driveline properly), with all the advantages of AWD. Something to consider before going the decoupler route, for those with an ‘aggressive’ VC.

 

BRIAN REED

FAIRFIELD NATURAL THERAPIES

185 Wingrove St

Fairfield, Vic. 3078

03 9481 5673   0407 319 521


From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Graham Adams
Sent: Saturday, 5 June 2010 2:54 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

 

Skot

 

I agree wholeheartedly that Syncros drive better with AWD/VC in place on the open road,where I/we do most of our higher speed driving.

Recently, for the first time in twenty years of driving this Syncro I removed the drive shaft to ascertain wether my diff whine was front or rear diff.

After returning to the Central Coast from Sydney sans shaft (100ks) I entered a roundabout at my normal speed,albeit a damp road and completely lost the backend. Swift correction was called for but it made me realise what completely different vehicles they are with and without AWD.

My VC is fairly aggressive so I drive around the block if possible rather than U turn.

A Decoupler is on the cards, but not essential as I prefer AWD permanently.

Solid shaft, not required for 90/10 bitumin/dirt.

 

Cheers Graham

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:39 PM

Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

 

Ken,

 

I have noticed a massive improvement in driveability of my syncro with the VC connected as compared to without it connected. With the central driveshaft removed it handles like a 2wd and much less solid than in 4wd.

 

I previously left the driveshaft removed to reduce front tyre wear but the boss kept complaining it doesn't drive well and brake well compared to when it is connected. As she always has something I want  - I do what I'm told.

 

The syncro even reverses down my steep curvy driveway better in 4wd even with the clutch in. This I don't understand! But it happens.

 

Hence for a few reasons mine stays on.

 

Cheers,

 

Skot

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ken Garratt

Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:13 PM

Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

 

Heh Ben, Peter and ALL,
 
Pertinent and timely references that offer clarity from known contributors with standing.
 
First see the attached extract pdf file.
 
Also goto: http://users. rcn.com/derekdre w/vanagon/ viscous_coupling s_vanagon_ syncro.htm
 
Throughout these doccos are the worrisome pointers to the risks associated with ongoing use of a "beyond service life" unit that is what's affectionately known as an "aggressive VC". Meaning an overworking and when it shouldn't be, out of spec VC.
 
In my view, the fundamental distinction between an aggressive VC v solid shaft coupling is that, whereas the solid shaft owner knows only too well not to couple a solid shaft on hard surfaces, so many "aggressive VC" owners by choice discount that primary concern in favour of a perceived advantage of a "safer" driving experience. Many others simply ignore or are oblivious to the risk.
 
So the consequences for using either a solid shaft OR an aggressive VC in this way is likely premature failure of either/and/or the gearbox/differentia l/CV joints etc. So when it happens and while at it, add insult to injury and belatedly R&R that culprit VC too. That's also a good time to reflect upon how all this was unnecessary, untimely, very inconvenient and extremely expensive.
 
A decoupler is one solution for the above circumstances, solves this and other operational issues provided one does the prudent thing and utilises 2WD functionality for hard surfaces and 4WD for giving surfaces. Hard pill to swallow?
 
Or else do yourselves a favour. For peace of mind, run a factory spec VC, just as VAG designed, intended & recommends.
 
Feel free to ignore all this. Your syncro and your wallet might in due course wish you hadn't.
 
Cheers.
Ken 
 
 

 



To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
From: bencroft96@yahoo. com
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 13:50:36 +0000
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

Ken.
As you know an aggressive VC will still allow you to drive on road if you avoid tight turns.
With a solid shaft pavement driving is a must not.
Even with an aggressive VC,Syncro is an AWD system.
With a solid shaft and decoupler like yours Ken,it is now a selectable 4WD system.
With a VC and a decoupler Syncro is a selectable AWD system.
I wouldnt mind one of those fibreglass filled VCs though?????

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@.. .> wrote:
>
>
> Peter,
>
> Yeah this has been done to death, but no, VW did want to build what you say, the 2WD/4WD/decoupler/ solid shaft setup but the bean counters had the last say and it pretty much got canned. Bean counters said what will sell most is a no brainer setup so they went for the VC instead and the purists ever since dip their lid to VAG every other day believing they got it right and stick with it come what may. Except me of course ... haha. Funny how so many now want a decoupler to save their VCs. I don't see a great difference between a solid shaft and an aggressive VC anyway.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> From: peter@...
> Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 11:21:42 +0000
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Decoupler and Solid Shaft
>
>
>
>
>
> No doubt this issue has been done to death but I was just wondering. I see a few Syncro people have replaced their VC with a solid shaft. I see one guy even took out the silicon and filled it with fibreglass (this would give the same effect I guess but would be a lot cheaper). I assume that this means when the decoupler is not engaged the vehicle is in constant 4WD. This would be fine off road and give alkl the benifits of 2WD on the bitumen. But isn't this getting away from the original concept of a Syncro with its innovative 4WD VC system. Or maybe it is just a practical way to deal with 20 year old vehicles!!!
>
> Just curious on this wet Mid North Coast Evening.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Need a new place to live? Find it on Domain.com.au
> http://clk.atdmt. com/NMN/go/ 157631292/ direct/01/
>

 


Australia 's #1 job site If It Exists, You'll Find it on SEEK

Brian
Thanks for your input about VC or decoupler. I think I'm tending to agree with you about VC over decoupler. Now the $64 million question. Where does one get a new VC from?
 
Regards

Michael



From: Brian Reed <breed@bigpond.net.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 5 June, 2010 3:54:17 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

Hi Graham, Skot et al,

 

This is something I used to preach for years. Perhaps I had the advantage of moving from a 2wd T3 directly to a Syncro, and seeing the difference. I’ve never understood the enthusiasm for moving back to an old-fashioned selectable 4wd system when VW designed a cutting edge (for its day) AWD system. Maybe it comes from America , where the best selling ‘car’ is still a Ford F series truck. Last time I checked (admittedly several years ago now) a brand new VC (from Derek Drew in my case) was quite a bit cheaper than a decoupler, and an easier install (considering vacuum lines etc, and no core to return). You can then expect at least another 100,00Km (and probably a lot more as an enthusiast who will look after the driveline properly), with all the advantages of AWD. Something to consider before going the decoupler route, for those with an ‘aggressive’ VC.

 

BRIAN REED

FAIRFIELD NATURAL THERAPIES

185 Wingrove St

Fairfield, Vic. 3078

03 9481 5673   0407 319 521


From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Graham Adams
Sent: Saturday, 5 June 2010 2:54 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

 

Skot

 

I agree wholeheartedly that Syncros drive better with AWD/VC in place on the open road,where I/we do most of our higher speed driving.

Recently, for the first time in twenty years of driving this Syncro I removed the drive shaft to ascertain wether my diff whine was front or rear diff.

After returning to the Central Coast from Sydney sans shaft (100ks) I entered a roundabout at my normal speed,albeit a damp road and completely lost the backend. Swift correction was called for but it made me realise what completely different vehicles they are with and without AWD.

My VC is fairly aggressive so I drive around the block if possible rather than U turn.

A Decoupler is on the cards, but not essential as I prefer AWD permanently.

Solid shaft, not required for 90/10 bitumin/dirt.

 

Cheers Graham

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:39 PM

Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

 

Ken,

 

I have noticed a massive improvement in driveability of my syncro with the VC connected as compared to without it connected. With the central driveshaft removed it handles like a 2wd and much less solid than in 4wd.

 

I previously left the driveshaft removed to reduce front tyre wear but the boss kept complaining it doesn't drive well and brake well compared to when it is connected. As she always has something I want  - I do what I'm told.

 

The syncro even reverses down my steep curvy driveway better in 4wd even with the clutch in. This I don't understand! But it happens.

 

Hence for a few reasons mine stays on.

 

Cheers,

 

Skot

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ken Garratt

Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:13 PM

Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

 

Heh Ben, Peter and ALL,
 
Pertinent and timely references that offer clarity from known contributors with standing.
 
First see the attached extract pdf file.
 
Also goto: http://users. rcn.com/derekdre w/vanagon/ viscous_coupling s_vanagon_ syncro.htm
 
Throughout these doccos are the worrisome pointers to the risks associated with ongoing use of a "beyond service life" unit that is what's affectionately known as an "aggressive VC". Meaning an overworking and when it shouldn't be, out of spec VC.
 
In my view, the fundamental distinction between an aggressive VC v solid shaft coupling is that, whereas the solid shaft owner knows only too well not to couple a solid shaft on hard surfaces, so many "aggressive VC" owners by choice discount that primary concern in favour of a perceived advantage of a "safer" driving experience. Many others simply ignore or are oblivious to the risk.
 
So the consequences for using either a solid shaft OR an aggressive VC in this way is likely premature failure of either/and/or the gearbox/differentia l/CV joints etc. So when it happens and while at it, add insult to injury and belatedly R&R that culprit VC too. That's also a good time to reflect upon how all this was unnecessary, untimely, very inconvenient and extremely expensive.
 
A decoupler is one solution for the above circumstances, solves this and other operational issues provided one does the prudent thing and utilises 2WD functionality for hard surfaces and 4WD for giving surfaces. Hard pill to swallow?
 
Or else do yourselves a favour. For peace of mind, run a factory spec VC, just as VAG designed, intended & recommends.
 
Feel free to ignore all this. Your syncro and your wallet might in due course wish you hadn't.
 
Cheers.
Ken 
 
 

 



To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
From: bencroft96@yahoo. com
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 13:50:36 +0000
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

Ken.
As you know an aggressive VC will still allow you to drive on road if you avoid tight turns.
With a solid shaft pavement driving is a must not.
Even with an aggressive VC,Syncro is an AWD system.
With a solid shaft and decoupler like yours Ken,it is now a selectable 4WD system.
With a VC and a decoupler Syncro is a selectable AWD system.
I wouldnt mind one of those fibreglass filled VCs though?????

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@.. .> wrote:
>
>
> Peter,
>
> Yeah this has been done to death, but no, VW did want to build what you say, the 2WD/4WD/decoupler/ solid shaft setup but the bean counters had the last say and it pretty much got canned. Bean counters said what will sell most is a no brainer setup so they went for the VC instead and the purists ever since dip their lid to VAG every other day believing they got it right and stick with it come what may. Except me of course ... haha. Funny how so many now want a decoupler to save their VCs. I don't see a great difference between a solid shaft and an aggressive VC anyway.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> From: peter@...
> Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 11:21:42 +0000
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Decoupler and Solid Shaft
>
>
>
>
>
> No doubt this issue has been done to death but I was just wondering. I see a few Syncro people have replaced their VC with a solid shaft. I see one guy even took out the silicon and filled it with fibreglass (this would give the same effect I guess but would be a lot cheaper). I assume that this means when the decoupler is not engaged the vehicle is in constant 4WD. This would be fine off road and give alkl the benifits of 2WD on the bitumen. But isn't this getting away from the original concept of a Syncro with its innovative 4WD VC system. Or maybe it is just a practical way to deal with 20 year old vehicles!!!
>
> Just curious on this wet Mid North Coast Evening.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Need a new place to live? Find it on Domain.com.au
> http://clk.atdmt. com/NMN/go/ 157631292/ direct/01/
>

 


Australia 's #1 job site If It Exists, You'll Find it on SEEK


 

Hi Micheal,

 

It was over 10 years ago now, but try searching for Derek Drew on the US forums. I also believe they are available from some of the European specialists now (maybe Mike at busman). At one point there were reconditioned units promoted, but I would stay away from them. There were mixed reports about them, and they were not that much cheaper.

 

BRIAN REED

FAIRFIELD NATURAL THERAPIES

185 Wingrove St

Fairfield, Vic. 3078

03 9481 5673   0407 319 521


From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Rayner
Sent: Saturday, 5 June 2010 10:09 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

 

Brian

Thanks for your input about VC or decoupler. I think I'm tending to agree with you about VC over decoupler. Now the $64 million question. Where does one get a new VC from?
 

Regards

Michael

 

 


From: Brian Reed <breed@bigpond. net.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sat, 5 June, 2010 3:54:17 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

Hi Graham, Skot et al,

 

This is something I used to preach for years. Perhaps I had the advantage of moving from a 2wd T3 directly to a Syncro, and seeing the difference. I’ve never understood the enthusiasm for moving back to an old-fashioned selectable 4wd system when VW designed a cutting edge (for its day) AWD system. Maybe it comes from America , where the best selling ‘car’ is still a Ford F series truck. Last time I checked (admittedly several years ago now) a brand new VC (from Derek Drew in my case) was quite a bit cheaper than a decoupler, and an easier install (considering vacuum lines etc, and no core to return). You can then expect at least another 100,00Km (and probably a lot more as an enthusiast who will look after the driveline properly), with all the advantages of AWD. Something to consider before going the decoupler route, for those with an ‘aggressive’ VC.

 

BRIAN REED

FAIRFIELD NATURAL THERAPIES

185 Wingrove St

Fairfield, Vic. 3078

03 9481 5673   0407 319 521


From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Graham Adams
Sent: Saturday, 5 June 2010 2:54 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

 

Skot

 

I agree wholeheartedly that Syncros drive better with AWD/VC in place on the open road,where I/we do most of our higher speed driving.

Recently, for the first time in twenty years of driving this Syncro I removed the drive shaft to ascertain wether my diff whine was front or rear diff.

After returning to the Central Coast from Sydney sans shaft (100ks) I entered a roundabout at my normal speed,albeit a damp road and completely lost the backend. Swift correction was called for but it made me realise what completely different vehicles they are with and without AWD.

My VC is fairly aggressive so I drive around the block if possible rather than U turn.

A Decoupler is on the cards, but not essential as I prefer AWD permanently.

Solid shaft, not required for 90/10 bitumin/dirt.

 

Cheers Graham

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:39 PM

Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

 

Ken,

 

I have noticed a massive improvement in driveability of my syncro with the VC connected as compared to without it connected. With the central driveshaft removed it handles like a 2wd and much less solid than in 4wd.

 

I previously left the driveshaft removed to reduce front tyre wear but the boss kept complaining it doesn't drive well and brake well compared to when it is connected. As she always has something I want  - I do what I'm told.

 

The syncro even reverses down my steep curvy driveway better in 4wd even with the clutch in. This I don't understand! But it happens.

 

Hence for a few reasons mine stays on.

 

Cheers,

 

Skot

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ken Garratt

Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:13 PM

Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

 

Heh Ben, Peter and ALL,
 
Pertinent and timely references that offer clarity from known contributors with standing.
 
First see the attached extract pdf file.
 
Also goto: http://users. rcn.com/derekdre w/vanagon/ viscous_coupling s_vanagon_ syncro.htm
 
Throughout these doccos are the worrisome pointers to the risks associated with ongoing use of a "beyond service life" unit that is what's affectionately known as an "aggressive VC". Meaning an overworking and when it shouldn't be, out of spec VC.
 
In my view, the fundamental distinction between an aggressive VC v solid shaft coupling is that, whereas the solid shaft owner knows only too well not to couple a solid shaft on hard surfaces, so many "aggressive VC" owners by choice discount that primary concern in favour of a perceived advantage of a "safer" driving experience. Many others simply ignore or are oblivious to the risk.
 
So the consequences for using either a solid shaft OR an aggressive VC in this way is likely premature failure of either/and/or the gearbox/differentia l/CV joints etc. So when it happens and while at it, add insult to injury and belatedly R&R that culprit VC too. That's also a good time to reflect upon how all this was unnecessary, untimely, very inconvenient and extremely expensive.
 
A decoupler is one solution for the above circumstances, solves this and other operational issues provided one does the prudent thing and utilises 2WD functionality for hard surfaces and 4WD for giving surfaces. Hard pill to swallow?
 
Or else do yourselves a favour. For peace of mind, run a factory spec VC, just as VAG designed, intended & recommends.
 
Feel free to ignore all this. Your syncro and your wallet might in due course wish you hadn't.
 
Cheers.
Ken 
 
 

 



To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
From: bencroft96@yahoo. com
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 13:50:36 +0000
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

Ken.
As you know an aggressive VC will still allow you to drive on road if you avoid tight turns.
With a solid shaft pavement driving is a must not.
Even with an aggressive VC,Syncro is an AWD system.
With a solid shaft and decoupler like yours Ken,it is now a selectable 4WD system.
With a VC and a decoupler Syncro is a selectable AWD system.
I wouldnt mind one of those fibreglass filled VCs though?????

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@.. .> wrote:
>
>
> Peter,
>
> Yeah this has been done to death, but no, VW did want to build what you say, the 2WD/4WD/decoupler/ solid shaft setup but the bean counters had the last say and it pretty much got canned. Bean counters said what will sell most is a no brainer setup so they went for the VC instead and the purists ever since dip their lid to VAG every other day believing they got it right and stick with it come what may. Except me of course ... haha. Funny how so many now want a decoupler to save their VCs. I don't see a great difference between a solid shaft and an aggressive VC anyway.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> From: peter@...
> Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 11:21:42 +0000
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Decoupler and Solid Shaft
>
>
>
>
>
> No doubt this issue has been done to death but I was just wondering. I see a few Syncro people have replaced their VC with a solid shaft. I see one guy even took out the silicon and filled it with fibreglass (this would give the same effect I guess but would be a lot cheaper). I assume that this means when the decoupler is not engaged the vehicle is in constant 4WD. This would be fine off road and give alkl the benifits of 2WD on the bitumen. But isn't this getting away from the original concept of a Syncro with its innovative 4WD VC system. Or maybe it is just a practical way to deal with 20 year old vehicles!!!
>
> Just curious on this wet Mid North Coast Evening.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Need a new place to live? Find it on Domain.com.au
> http://clk.atdmt. com/NMN/go/ 157631292/ direct/01/
>

 


Australia 's #1 job site If It Exists, You'll Find it on SEEK


 

Classic parts in Germany sell new old stock ones which is where I got mine. I've posted the details a few times on the list, try searching once logged in to Yahoo.

If you can't find i'll dig out my records at work next week.

Cheers
Gary Cookson


On 05/06/2010, at 10:22 PM, Brian Reed wrote:

 

Hi Micheal,

 

It was over 10 years ago now, but try searching for Derek Drew on the US forums. I also believe they are available from some of the European specialists now (maybe Mike at busman). At one point there were reconditioned units promoted, but I would stay away from them. There were mixed reports about them, and they were not that much cheaper.

 

BRIAN REED

FAIRFIELD NATURAL THERAPIES

185 Wingrove St

Fairfield, Vic. 3078

03 9481 5673   0407 319 521


From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Michael Rayner
Sent: Saturday, 5 June 2010 10:09 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

 

Brian

Thanks for your input about VC or decoupler. I think I'm tending to agree with you about VC over decoupler. Now the $64 million question. Where does one get a new VC from?
 

Regards

Michael

 

 


From: Brian Reed <breed@bigpond.net.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sat, 5 June, 2010 3:54:17 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

Hi Graham, Skot et al,

 

This is something I used to preach for years. Perhaps I had the advantage of moving from a 2wd T3 directly to a Syncro, and seeing the difference. I’ve never understood the enthusiasm for moving back to an old-fashioned selectable 4wd system when VW designed a cutting edge (for its day) AWD system. Maybe it comes from America , where the best selling ‘car’ is still a Ford F series truck. Last time I checked (admittedly several years ago now) a brand new VC (from Derek Drew in my case) was quite a bit cheaper than a decoupler, and an easier install (considering vacuum lines etc, and no core to return). You can then expect at least another 100,00Km (and probably a lot more as an enthusiast who will look after the driveline properly), with all the advantages of AWD. Something to consider before going the decoupler route, for those with an ‘aggressive’ VC.

 

BRIAN REED

FAIRFIELD NATURAL THERAPIES

185 Wingrove St

Fairfield, Vic. 3078

03 9481 5673   0407 319 521


From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Graham Adams
Sent: Saturday, 5 June 2010 2:54 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

 

Skot

 

I agree wholeheartedly that Syncros drive better with AWD/VC in place on the open road,where I/we do most of our higher speed driving.

Recently, for the first time in twenty years of driving this Syncro I removed the drive shaft to ascertain wether my diff whine was front or rear diff.

After returning to the Central Coast from Sydney sans shaft (100ks) I entered a roundabout at my normal speed,albeit a damp road and completely lost the backend. Swift correction was called for but it made me realise what completely different vehicles they are with and without AWD.

My VC is fairly aggressive so I drive around the block if possible rather than U turn.

A Decoupler is on the cards, but not essential as I prefer AWD permanently.

Solid shaft, not required for 90/10 bitumin/dirt.

 

Cheers Graham

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:39 PM

Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

 

Ken,

 

I have noticed a massive improvement in driveability of my syncro with the VC connected as compared to without it connected. With the central driveshaft removed it handles like a 2wd and much less solid than in 4wd.

 

I previously left the driveshaft removed to reduce front tyre wear but the boss kept complaining it doesn't drive well and brake well compared to when it is connected. As she always has something I want  - I do what I'm told.

 

The syncro even reverses down my steep curvy driveway better in 4wd even with the clutch in. This I don't understand! But it happens.

 

Hence for a few reasons mine stays on.

 

Cheers,

 

Skot

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:13 PM

Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

 

Heh Ben, Peter and ALL,
 
Pertinent and timely references that offer clarity from known contributors with standing.
 
First see the attached extract pdf file.
 
Also goto: http://users. rcn.com/derekdre w/vanagon/ viscous_coupling s_vanagon_ syncro.htm
 
Throughout these doccos are the worrisome pointers to the risks associated with ongoing use of a "beyond service life" unit that is what's affectionately known as an "aggressive VC". Meaning an overworking and when it shouldn't be, out of spec VC.
 
In my view, the fundamental distinction between an aggressive VC v solid shaft coupling is that, whereas the solid shaft owner knows only too well not to couple a solid shaft on hard surfaces, so many "aggressive VC" owners by choice discount that primary concern in favour of a perceived advantage of a "safer" driving experience. Many others simply ignore or are oblivious to the risk.
 
So the consequences for using either a solid shaft OR an aggressive VC in this way is likely premature failure of either/and/or the gearbox/differentia l/CV joints etc. So when it happens and while at it, add insult to injury and belatedly R&R that culprit VC too. That's also a good time to reflect upon how all this was unnecessary, untimely, very inconvenient and extremely expensive.
 
A decoupler is one solution for the above circumstances, solves this and other operational issues provided one does the prudent thing and utilises 2WD functionality for hard surfaces and 4WD for giving surfaces. Hard pill to swallow?
 
Or else do yourselves a favour. For peace of mind, run a factory spec VC, just as VAG designed, intended & recommends.
 
Feel free to ignore all this. Your syncro and your wallet might in due course wish you hadn't.
 
Cheers.
Ken 
 
 

 



To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
From: bencroft96@yahoo. com
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 13:50:36 +0000
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

Ken.
As you know an aggressive VC will still allow you to drive on road if you avoid tight turns.
With a solid shaft pavement driving is a must not.
Even with an aggressive VC,Syncro is an AWD system.
With a solid shaft and decoupler like yours Ken,it is now a selectable 4WD system.
With a VC and a decoupler Syncro is a selectable AWD system.
I wouldnt mind one of those fibreglass filled VCs though?????

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@.. .> wrote:
>
>
> Peter,
>
> Yeah this has been done to death, but no, VW did want to build what you say, the 2WD/4WD/decoupler/ solid shaft setup but the bean counters had the last say and it pretty much got canned. Bean counters said what will sell most is a no brainer setup so they went for the VC instead and the purists ever since dip their lid to VAG every other day believing they got it right and stick with it come what may. Except me of course ... haha. Funny how so many now want a decoupler to save their VCs. I don't see a great difference between a solid shaft and an aggressive VC anyway.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> From: peter@...
> Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 11:21:42 +0000
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Decoupler and Solid Shaft
>
>
>
>
>
> No doubt this issue has been done to death but I was just wondering. I see a few Syncro people have replaced their VC with a solid shaft. I see one guy even took out the silicon and filled it with fibreglass (this would give the same effect I guess but would be a lot cheaper). I assume that this means when the decoupler is not engaged the vehicle is in constant 4WD. This would be fine off road and give alkl the benifits of 2WD on the bitumen. But isn't this getting away from the original concept of a Syncro with its innovative 4WD VC system. Or maybe it is just a practical way to deal with 20 year old vehicles!!!
>
> Just curious on this wet Mid North Coast Evening.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Need a new place to live? Find it on Domain.com.au
> http://clk.atdmt. com/NMN/go/ 157631292/ direct/01/
>

 


Australia 's #1 job site If It Exists, You'll Find it on SEEK


 



Gary,

Now is probably a good time to start a parts source list so that the supplier information can be accessed by all members from a file on our website.

Please post the contact details when you get to work and I will start a file.

Since shipping can be a problem when sourcing parts from the US and Europe , details of how you got the parts to here would be useful to future buyers.

Recent purchasers of decouplers are requested to do the same and furnish details for the supplier file.

Thanks

Les

 


From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Gary Cookson
Sent: 06 June 2010 09:33
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Decoupler and Solid Shaft

 

Classic parts in Germany sell new old stock ones which is where I got mine. I've posted the details a few times on the list, try searching once logged in to Yahoo.

If you can't find i'll dig out my records at work next week.

Cheers

Gary Cookson

 

Les. I ordered mine last week from Florian Speier ([groups.florian@gmail.com].  He posted the following emails on our Group Page on 25 and 28 May 2010. I found his service and attention to detail to be impeccable. He has even sent through detailed photos of the assembly process as he splits the item into two packages.

 

Peter

 

Hi,

 

my decoupler kits are back in stock - and because some of you where wondering what it costs with the wild fluctuation on the currency market, including shipping it will be about AUD 1200, plus about AUD 300 for the core which you get refunded. If requested, I can split the package up into two lower value packages so it passes customs better.

It is important though to return the cores as fast as possible. Of three cores I sent out to Australia, one has never been seen again.... the deposit covers my costs but it is not easy to acquire cores. 

You can either pay paypal in US dollars or bank transfer in Euros.

The nosecone gasket is part of my kits too btw, it was an upgrade we got from the supplier around new years.

I can provide english install instructions, but I am also available over the phone, just call 0011-1-510-381-1567 but call in the morning australia time due to the time change.

thanks

Florian

 

Good morning,

first of  all it seems that some of you sent me direct mails that didnt come through - if you havent heard back from me please double check the order email address - decouplers@gmail.com or just grab the phone and call me.
regarding machining yourself - it is not necessarily difficult, but unless you have a lot of custom jigs you wont be able to do it with the same precision. A few people in the u.s. wanted to go that route, all of them but one decided not to do it after they saw my instructions. the one that did it was a machinist himself and he had to make new bronze bushings because the holes he drilled ended up being 0.01mm too large.
I am in final assembly stages here of a set of six and can send two of those to australia. As I said before, I needed to get $1000USD shipped, which is the same I charge for the Americans, even though Australia shipping is more expensive. Now that you guys will need it shipped in two separate packages and pay via paypal, I would say that we split the addtl costs of about $40, for a total of US$1020 plus US250 core deposit.
At todays exchange rate, that equals AUS$1200 for the decoupler and AUS$300 core.

Florian