Electric mirrors vs normal ones

Not sure if I’m alone here but, I have had a lot of trouble with stock mirrors folding back when I pass B-Doubles and other big trucks.  I have tried tightening the spring that hold it firm but they still move.  I’m currently in Canada and I see that most of the T3 over here run electric mirrors and they look far more sturdy.  Has anyone got any experience with these?  I was wondering if they can be made to replace the stock ones?  Any other items not common in OZ I should be looking to collect while I’m over here?

 

Cheers, 

Michael R



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On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Michael Roberts <type500@yahoo.com> wrote:

Not sure if I’m alone here but, I have had a lot of trouble with stock mirrors folding back when I pass B-Doubles and other big trucks. I have tried tightening the spring that hold it firm but they still move. I’m currently in Canada and I see that most of the T3 over here run electric mirrors and they look far more sturdy. Has anyone got any experience with these? I was wondering if they can be made to replace the stock ones? Any other items not common in OZ I should be looking to collect while I’m over here?

Cheers,

Michael R

Michael,
I am a bit south of the border from you in California where the powermirrors (PM) were more common on the 86-later Vanagons (aka the American version of the T3). Have retrofitted PM both with and without power. They are much sturdier than the manual variety. The housing simply swings sideways should it encounter a pedestrian or nearby shrubbery. The mirror itself sits within the housing on a independent pivot.
PM's mount with 3 screws. The first two on top are at the same spot where the manual mirrors mount. There is a third screw on the bottom which is missing on the manual mirrors. To retrofit, you can either add a captive nut like a Nutsert (brand) of appropriate size, or use a sheet metal screw, lose nut from the other side, or simply leave it out. I have been running my Syncro w/o that bottom screw for 10 years w/o incident.
You can use the PM w/o adding power. I think you will find that many used PM's for sale have the wiring harness cut. You see once you demount the mirrors, you will find that the harness plug is too small to pass through the hole in your door. Most people unfamiliar with the connector just cut them. If you remove the door panel (door cards), it is possible to remove the small plastic connectors by inserting a special tool or a suitably size screw driver to release the harness from the plastic cover. You can still leave the metal ends and they will slip out of the door hole.
You can also run the PM's w/o electric power. The housing is just as sturdy. To adjust the mirrors, simply push one edge or the other to point the mirror where you need it. No need to worry about cut harnesses when using this method. In the 10 years I had my PM's installed in my Syncro and have not had to adjust them at all. The housing keeps the mirror in adjustment even when the housing itself is deflected.
If you are adding the PM with power, make sure you get the entire mirror harness. The piece that goes from one side of the vehicle to the other is independent of any of the other harness system except powerlocks. They can be separated even from that. It's probably not practical for you but I found it easier to remove the whole fuse block from the donor vehicle so adding power onto my non-power T3 was a matter of plug and play. If this is starting to sound confusing it's because I have more than one T3 to play with. Some I added with power and others w/o.
Most powermirrors installations fail at the door hinge area. After some 20 years of opening and closing the door, the wiring harness tend to break inside the rubber boot. Best time to repair that is once the harness is out. Otherwise, cutting the boot open is often the only practical solution.
Pricing on used powermirrors are $50-$200 in the US. New will run you 3 times the highend of that scale. Just mirror by itself is $78 from my local US VW dealership. Forgot to mention that the mirrors have heating elements which connect to the harness for your rear window defroster (if so equipped). That's the reason my VW dealer used as an excuse for why the replacement glass is so expensive.
Well, that's the jist of it. If you have any specific question, ask and I will try to answer to the best of my ability. I do not have any photos of the procedure at this time but will in the future.


--
BenT
Hi Michael
 
Instrument cluster with tacho.
 
Alf


From: Michael Roberts <type500@yahoo.com>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 2 March, 2009 4:22:59 AM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Electric mirrors vs normal ones

Not sure if I’m alone here but, I have had a lot of trouble with stock mirrors folding back when I pass B-Doubles and other big trucks.  I have tried tightening the spring that hold it firm but they still move.  I’m currently in Canada and I see that most of the T3 over here run electric mirrors and they look far more sturdy.  Has anyone got any experience with these?  I was wondering if they can be made to replace the stock ones?  Any other items not common in OZ I should be looking to collect while I’m over here?

 

Cheers, 

Michael R



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Michael,
 
Make that two!!
 
Les
 
----- Original Message -----
From: alf ando
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Electric mirrors vs normal ones

Hi Michael
 
Instrument cluster with tacho.
 
Alf


From: Michael Roberts <type500@yahoo. com>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Sent: Monday, 2 March, 2009 4:22:59 AM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Electric mirrors vs normal ones

Not sure if I’m alone here but, I have had a lot of trouble with stock mirrors folding back when I pass B-Doubles and other big trucks.  I have tried tightening the spring that hold it firm but they still move.  I’m currently in Canada and I see that most of the T3 over here run electric mirrors and they look far more sturdy.  Has anyone got any experience with these?  I was wondering if they can be made to replace the stock ones?  Any other items not common in OZ I should be looking to collect while I’m over here?

 

Cheers, 

Michael R



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Hi Les
 
If your mirrors are coming loose, it is because the stud is pulling out off the mirror housing, i have been pulling it out all together and drilling a hole straight through and fitting a bolt straight through the centre so it can be tightened.
 
Alf


From: Les Harris <leslieharris@optushome.com.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 2 March, 2009 5:02:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Electric mirrors vs normal ones



Michael,
 
Make that two!!
 
Les
 
----- Original Message -----
From: alf ando
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Electric mirrors vs normal ones

Hi Michael
 
Instrument cluster with tacho.
 
Alf


From: Michael Roberts <type500@yahoo. com>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Sent: Monday, 2 March, 2009 4:22:59 AM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Electric mirrors vs normal ones

Not sure if I’m alone here but, I have had a lot of trouble with stock mirrors folding back when I pass B-Doubles and other big trucks.  I have tried tightening the spring that hold it firm but they still move.  I’m currently in Canada and I see that most of the T3 over here run electric mirrors and they look far more sturdy.  Has anyone got any experience with these?  I was wondering if they can be made to replace the stock ones?  Any other items not common in OZ I should be looking to collect while I’m over here?

 

Cheers, 

Michael R



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Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look.



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On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 2:16 AM, alf ando <dansk53bus@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
Hi Les
If your mirrors are coming loose, it is because the stud is pulling out off the mirror housing, i have been pulling it out all together and drilling a hole straight through and fitting a bolt straight through the centre so it can be tightened.
Alf
Alf,
Regardless of how many times you re-tighten that bolt, it will eventually get loose again. In some situations, after repeated tightening, the bottom of the mirror stalk splits. In that situation, I have found a hose clamp can tighten things up adequately. It's not the best cosmetic solution but it works.
From my experience, the manual mirrors cannot withstand sustained speeds over 90mph. The powermirrors, on the other hand, have no problems with folding backwards even at 100mph+ speeds.=)
BenT
Thanks for the info Ben, I will keep my eyes open for some PM's.  at least now I have a better idear about them.  Iwill also look for Taco dash or three.  I hope to head down your way in a couple of months for Syncro De Mayo.  not really sure yet I'm still with out a car.  I have been looking for a T3 but there more costly over here than back home.  I have been amazed at how many westy ther are around, I have so far only seen two non westy T3.  I have also been suprised at the high percentage of syncros amonst them. any way I will keep looking I may get lucky. 
 
Cheers for all the help.


From: BenT Syncro <syncro@gmail.com>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com; type500@yahoo.com
Sent: Sunday, March 1, 2009 11:23:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Electric mirrors vs normal ones

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Michael Roberts <type500@yahoo. com> wrote:

Not sure if I’m alone here but, I have had a lot of trouble with stock mirrors folding back when I pass B-Doubles and other big trucks.  I have tried tightening the spring that hold it firm but they still move.  I’m currently in Canada and I see that most of the T3 over here run electric mirrors and they look far more sturdy.  Has anyone got any experience with these?  I was wondering if they can be made to replace the stock ones?  Any other items not common in OZ I should be looking to collect while I’m over here?

Cheers, 

Michael R

 
Michael,
 
I am a bit south of the border from you in California where the powermirrors (PM) were more common on the 86-later Vanagons (aka the American version of the T3). Have retrofitted PM both with and without power. They are much sturdier than the manual variety. The housing simply swings sideways should it encounter a pedestrian or nearby shrubbery. The mirror itself sits within the housing on a independent pivot.
 
PM's mount with 3 screws. The first two on top are at the same spot where the manual mirrors mount. There is a third screw on the bottom which is missing on the manual mirrors. To retrofit, you can either add a captive nut like a Nutsert (brand) of appropriate size, or use a sheet metal screw, lose nut from the other side, or simply leave it out. I have been running my Syncro w/o that bottom screw for 10 years w/o incident.
 
You can use the PM w/o adding power. I think you will find that many used PM's for sale have the wiring harness cut. You see once you demount the mirrors, you will find that the harness plug is too small to pass through the hole in your door. Most people unfamiliar with the connector just cut them. If you remove the door panel (door cards), it is possible to remove the small plastic connectors by inserting a special tool or a suitably size screw driver to release the harness from the plastic cover. You can still leave the metal ends and they will slip out of the door hole.
 
You can also run the PM's w/o electric power. The housing is just as sturdy. To adjust the mirrors, simply push one edge or the other to point the mirror where you need it. No need to worry about cut harnesses when using this method. In the 10 years I had my PM's installed in my Syncro and have not had to adjust them at all. The housing keeps the mirror in adjustment even when the housing itself is deflected.
 
If you are adding the PM with power, make sure you get the entire mirror harness. The piece that goes from one side of the vehicle to the other is independent of any of the other harness system except powerlocks. They can be separated even from that. It's probably not practical for you but I found it easier to remove the whole fuse block from the donor vehicle so adding power onto my non-power T3 was a matter of plug and play. If this is starting to sound confusing it's because I have more than one T3 to play with. Some I added with power and others w/o.
 
Most powermirrors installations fail at the door hinge area. After some 20 years of opening and closing the door, the wiring harness tend to break inside the rubber boot. Best time to repair that is once the harness is out. Otherwise, cutting the boot open is often the only practical solution.
 
Pricing on used powermirrors are $50-$200 in the US. New will run you 3 times the highend of that scale. Just mirror by itself is $78 from my local US VW dealership. Forgot to mention that the mirrors have heating elements which connect to the harness for your rear window defroster (if so equipped). That's the reason my VW dealer used as an excuse for why the replacement glass is so expensive.
 
Well, that's the jist of it. If you have any specific question, ask and I will try to answer to the best of my ability. I do not have any photos of the procedure at this time but will in the future. 
 
 


--
BenT


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On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 10:13 PM, Michael Roberts <type500@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thanks for the info Ben, I will keep my eyes open for some PM's. at least now I have a better idear about them. Iwill also look for Taco dash or three. I hope to head down your way in a couple of months for Syncro De Mayo. not really sure yet I'm still with out a car. I have been looking for a T3 but there more costly over here than back home. I have been amazed at how many westy ther are around, I have so far only seen two non westy T3. I have also been suprised at the high percentage of syncros amonst them. any way I will keep looking I may get lucky.
Cheers for all the help.
Michael,
I am 2 hours away from Hollister Hills where SdM is held. I typically drop by just for the day. Drop me a line when you are coming down to my end of the continent
Incidentally, I have access a instrument clusters with tachs. The US spec Vanagons have MPH speedos. Buy the cluster minus the speedo. When you get home, plug your old speedo in there and you are in business. I will bet power mirrors and clusters with tachs are more common here than even Germany. Those were very popular options here so relatively plentiful in the California wrecking yards.
Shipping is not that expensive on light weight items such as a cluster. Maybe I should grab a few and post them on Aussie Ebay. =)
Goes for mirrors too. Anybody want to trade me an ARB roobar for a T3 for some of this sort of stuff?
Cheers,
BenT
Gday BenT,

Most Oz syncros don't have an OEM instrument cluster with tacho and
digital clock, meaning there may be enough interest from members of this
Oz forum if canvassed to get involved in a bulk purchase from you, if
you can access units in good condition and at a price including shipping
to make it worth your while to provide this service.

Not sure what you are saying when you refer to an ARB roo bar. Did they
make any for a T3?

Probably the roo bar most plentiful in Oz (and arguably the most
practical and attractive) would be the alloy ones made for Trakka, the
major camper conversion company in Oz. For their premium conversions,
probably for an extra charge, they also colour coded the roo bars to
whatever the van colour was. Maybe someone knows who Trakka engaged to
make these roo bars and bumper bars.

The Trakka roo bar was fully integrated with an alloy bumper bar and was
built in such a way that none of the front approach angle underneath was
lost, unlike many other roo bars around which suffered this problem due
to poor design. Usually, any syncro with a Trakka roo bar also has a
complementary alloy rear bumper bar as well. Meaning then, to export a
complete Trakka roo bar set (front roo bar and integrated bumper plus
the matching rear bumper) would be fairly problematic and expensive ...
not a job for the faint hearted, even if such a set (all of them now 17
to 21 years old) could be found. Probably would be a case of searching
for a set over time, sooner or later a set would pop up somewhere. And
if you wanted a set in pristine condition ... well ... how long have you
got? So perhaps you could elaborate a bit more on your needs and wants
with this.

I assume you have pics of these already.

Ben, I have such a set on my Trakka syncro but they are defininitely not
heading overseas lol ... sorry.

Cheers.

Ken


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, BenT Syncro <syncro@...>
wrote:
>
> On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 10:13 PM, Michael Roberts type500@... wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the info Ben, I will keep my eyes open for some PM's. at
> > least now I have a better idear about them. Iwill also look for Taco
dash
> > or three. I hope to head down your way in a couple of months for
Syncro De
> > Mayo. not really sure yet I'm still with out a car. I have been
looking
> > for a T3 but there more costly over here than back home. I have been
amazed
> > at how many westy ther are around, I have so far only seen two non
westy
> > T3. I have also been suprised at the high percentage of syncros
amonst
> > them. any way I will keep looking I may get lucky.
> >
> > Cheers for all the help.
> >
>
> Michael,
>
> I am 2 hours away from Hollister Hills where SdM is held. I typically
drop
> by just for the day. Drop me a line when you are coming down to my end
of
> the continent
>
> Incidentally, I have access a instrument clusters with tachs. The US
spec
> Vanagons have MPH speedos. Buy the cluster minus the speedo. When you
get
> home, plug your old speedo in there and you are in business. I will
bet
> power mirrors and clusters with tachs are more common here than even
> Germany. Those were very popular options here so relatively plentiful
in the
> California wrecking yards.
>
> Shipping is not that expensive on light weight items such as a
cluster.
> Maybe I should grab a few and post them on Aussie Ebay. =)
> Goes for mirrors too. Anybody want to trade me an ARB roobar for a T3
for
> some of this sort of stuff?
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> BenT
>
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 12:48 AM, Ken <unclekenz@yahoo.com> wrote:

Gday BenT,

Most Oz syncros don't have an OEM instrument cluster with tacho and
digital clock, meaning there may be enough interest from members of this
Oz forum if canvassed to get involved in a bulk purchase from you, if
you can access units in good condition and at a price including shipping
to make it worth your while to provide this service.
Ken, instrument clusters for petrol fueled models are easy to find here. The 2wd & Syncros are essentially the same. As I mentioned earlier, you would need to swap in your speedometer. We did not get any of the diesel models here after 1983 so no diesel tachs with tachs here unless it is on a conversion. Converters here get the parts from Europe. Most of the older housings have began to deteriorate by this time especially from warmer climates. Those clusters with some cracks in the housing will be priced less. The housings are all interchangeable in my experience. Even the panel with the glow plug light in diesels substitute for the O2 light in the petrol models. Let me study this a bit. These are small enough parts that I am definitely able to handle quite a few if needed. I have about 4-5 spares on hand. Yes, I am a self-confessed parts hoarder. How else could I have managed to have over 160 spare wheels and tires? That's another story for another day.

Not sure what you are saying when you refer to an ARB roo bar. Did they
make any for a T3?
Yes, ARB made one for the T3 but they have been out of production for more than a decade. I had several opportunities to buy them for not much more than spare change from Aussie Ebay but none of the Sellers was willing to ship. The ones I've seen are of aluminium construction except for the side end pieces which appear to be stock T3 bits I recently spotted the bullbumper on the attached photo. I am not sure it is an ARB because it looks so much beefier. The ARB ones I'd seen do not have the side tubes like this one.
Probably the roo bar most plentiful in Oz (and arguably the most
practical and attractive) would be the alloy ones made for Trakka, the
major camper conversion company in Oz. For their premium conversions,
probably for an extra charge, they also colour coded the roo bars to
whatever the van colour was. Maybe someone knows who Trakka engaged to
make these roo bars and bumper bars.
I have photos of a white one which I believe belongs to Les.
Meaning then, to export a
complete Trakka roo bar set (front roo bar and integrated bumper plus
the matching rear bumper) would be fairly problematic and expensive ...
Ken, I once had the left side of a Tristar cut from a wrecking yard in Sweden. I then had it transported to Poland where it was stored for a time until I can arrange shipping to Hamburg. From Hamburg, it joined alloy gates for a T3 Singlecab and spares rear doors for a T3 Doublecab. Eventually the load made it's way to Los Angeles where I fetched them after an 8 hour drive. At about the same time, I had a similar sized package go from Sweden to Poland to Dusseldorf, Germany before going by commercial carrier to San Francisco. I am not a stranger to problematic shipping.
Newest challenge is a package 2m X 2m X 0.66m. Luckily it is only going 1,000 miles. I almost forgot about the 900lb camper section from a Landy Defender 130. It had no wheels and had to cross the Continental Divide. I might me putting this puppy in the back of my Syncro.

Probably would be a case of searching
for a set over time, sooner or later a set would pop up somewhere. And
if you wanted a set in pristine condition ... well ... how long have you
got? So perhaps you could elaborate a bit more on your needs and wants
with this.
I am not in a great hurry. I would prefer one in good condition (no dents or cracks) The plan is to get it anodised or powdercoated.

I assume you have pics of these already.
Yes, as I mentioned earlier, probably Les' Trakka. Who has the one with license plates reading 'AU 31 WQ'
Ben, I have such a set on my Trakka syncro but they are defininitely not
heading overseas lol ... sorry.
I wouldn't dream of it, Ken. I am looking to get parts from an unloved Syncro whose owner is indifferent to his/her vehicle. In other words, someone willing to sell cheap. =) Remember shipping cost is the deal killer. The less expensive the part, the more room in the budget for shipping. In some cases, it might be less expensive for me to fetch an item in person and bring it back as luggage.
Cheers,
BenT
Gday BenT,

Thanks a lot but too much detail and variables you speak of. Remember in
Oz, we are big on the KISS principle.

So forget diesel etc. etc., think petrol syncro 2.1 WBX, essentially
standard (basic) model factory fitted out vans, no tachos, little or no
a/c, some p/s, no central locking or keyless entry, no power mirrors, no
fancy internal or external trims .... I'm talking for MOST Oz syncros
...... basic. Still practical and lovable.

Concerning the condition of the instrument cluster enclosure, I suspect
this has a lot to do with whether or not the van is mostly garaged or
left out on the street. If you say many enclosures are deteriorated,
cracked etc., well by comparison, I know mine is in pristine condition
despite Oz in the main being a very sunny part of this planet. So maybe
this is only an issue on a case by case basis.

If you can confirm this instrument cluster is a straight swap utilising
our existing wiring loom and connectors and just the tacho has to be
changed over plus add a tacho sensor cable (to somewhere), then it
sounds like a goer, if Oz syncro list members are interested. Perhaps
someone here would raise their hand and be the guinea pig to do a test
run first ... iron out the bugs sort of thing, if any.

As far as the roo bar set is concerned, you didn't specifically say so,
but is it actally the Trakka roo bar/bumper bar and rear bar set you are
keen on? Or just the front Trakka roo bar/bumper combo? There are also
lesser (in my view) look-a-likes and imitations around, be terrible to
see you get a dudd.

Cheers.

Ken
> Concerning the condition of the instrument cluster enclosure, I suspect
> this has a lot to do with whether or not the van is mostly garaged or
> left out on the street. If you say many enclosures are deteriorated,
> cracked etc., well by comparison, I know mine is in pristine condition
> despite Oz in the main being a very sunny part of this planet. So maybe
> this is only an issue on a case by case basis.
>
> If you can confirm this instrument cluster is a straight swap utilising
> our existing wiring loom and connectors and just the tacho has to be
> changed over plus add a tacho sensor cable (to somewhere), then it
> sounds like a goer, if Oz syncro list members are interested. Perhaps
> someone here would raise their hand and be the guinea pig to do a test
> run first ... iron out the bugs sort of thing, if any.
>

Except the speedo, it's a straight swap. We already have the tacho wire.

To convert from a clock to a tacho, you will need the printed circuit and the tacho.
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 7:14 PM, <plander@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
Except the speedo, it's a straight swap. We already have the tacho wire.

To convert from a clock to a tacho, you will need the printed circuit and the tacho.
I suspected as much because I have converted a few Eurpean T3's with just the tach & fill swap.
To add the digital clock, you need the backing clock and backing pieces that go with that as well.
BenT
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 4:53 PM, Ken <unclekenz@yahoo.com> wrote:

Gday BenT,

Thanks a lot but too much detail and variables you speak of. Remember in
Oz, we are big on the KISS principle.
Ken, I only meant there were many options. Since some Oz T3's do not have WAsserboxer engines anymore, installing a WBX van tach can be a challenge in a diesel or Subaru powered rig.
Concerning the condition of the instrument cluster enclosure, I suspect
this has a lot to do with whether or not the van is mostly garaged or
left out on the street. If you say many enclosures are deteriorated,
cracked etc., well by comparison, I know mine is in pristine condition
despite Oz in the main being a very sunny part of this planet. So maybe
this is only an issue on a case by case basis.
I realize that. However, most vans that end up in a breaker's yard are generally the neglected, parked outdoors variety. Hence, the condition of the housing.
If you can confirm this instrument cluster is a straight swap utilising
our existing wiring loom and connectors and just the tacho has to be
changed over plus add a tacho sensor cable (to somewhere), then it
sounds like a goer, if Oz syncro list members are interested. Perhaps
someone here would raise their hand and be the guinea pig to do a test
run first ... iron out the bugs sort of thing, if any.
I believe Phill has confirmed this.
As far as the roo bar set is concerned, you didn't specifically say so,
but is it actally the Trakka roo bar/bumper bar and rear bar set you are
keen on? Or just the front Trakka roo bar/bumper combo? There are also
lesser (in my view) look-a-likes and imitations around, be terrible to
see you get a dudd.
It's just a wish list. I am sure I can get one cobble up which looks like the ARB bar.
Cheers,
Ben
Gday BenT,

Seems to me the US sourced cluster assembly would be the one to modify,
just add the Oz speedo and whichever enclosure is in the best condition.
Or am I missing something else here?

Is there a pic somewhere online of the US instrument cluster so we can
simply eyeball an A-B comparison with our Oz one to satisfy there are no
added or deleted features with either?

Cheers.

Ken


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, BenT Syncro <syncro@...>
wrote:
>
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 7:14 PM, plander@... wrote:
>
> > Except the speedo, it's a straight swap. We already have the tacho
wire.
> >
> > To convert from a clock to a tacho, you will need the printed
circuit and
> > the tacho.
> >
>
>
> I suspected as much because I have converted a few Eurpean T3's with
just
> the tach & fill swap.
> To add the digital clock, you need the backing clock and backing
pieces that
> go with that as well.
>
>
> BenT
>
Hi Ken,

I've already taken a US Instrument cluster with tacho & digital clock and installed in my ex-telstra.

Just took Aussie speedo and put into US cluster so can read Km's not miles. Easy, few screws, few plugs, speedo cable plug, plug to loom, careful with the ribbon circuit board. If I can do this one, anyone can. I always find the most annoying part the clips that hold that cluster / brake fluid reservoir cover in place. My ex-telstra already had all necessary wiring in place.

BTW as discussed many of the clusters available are in varying condition, many missing plastic tabs where four screws hold cluster to metal dash. Mine I think is in with 3 screws and 1 washer + screw job as tabs a bit deteriorated. I think the annoying cluster cover is somewhat responsible for so many with these screw tabs broken.

Also the digital clock, after a good period of service, has decided now not to respond to the adjustment buttons. Good fun resetting it after I disconnect the battery to do some work.

One of the other differences can be the OXS light, but this has never lit up for mine, so either wiring not there for it or my oxygen sensor is ok??

Having tacho = good. Changed the way I drive her.

:) Sam

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> Gday BenT,
>
> Seems to me the US sourced cluster assembly would be the one to modify,
> just add the Oz speedo and whichever enclosure is in the best condition.
> Or am I missing something else here?
>
> Is there a pic somewhere online of the US instrument cluster so we can
> simply eyeball an A-B comparison with our Oz one to satisfy there are no
> added or deleted features with either?
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, BenT Syncro <syncro@>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 7:14 PM, plander@ wrote:
> >
> > > Except the speedo, it's a straight swap. We already have the tacho
> wire.
> > >
> > > To convert from a clock to a tacho, you will need the printed
> circuit and
> > > the tacho.
> > >
> >
> >
> > I suspected as much because I have converted a few Eurpean T3's with
> just
> > the tach & fill swap.
> > To add the digital clock, you need the backing clock and backing
> pieces that
> > go with that as well.
> >
> >
> > BenT
> >
>
On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 4:06 AM, Ken <unclekenz@yahoo.com> wrote:

Gday BenT,

Seems to me the US sourced cluster assembly would be the one to modify,
just add the Oz speedo and whichever enclosure is in the best condition.
Or am I missing something else here?

Is there a pic somewhere online of the US instrument cluster so we can
simply eyeball an A-B comparison with our Oz one to satisfy there are no
added or deleted features with either?

Cheers.

Ken
Ken,
Here are photos of 2wd clusters but the look is very similar to Syncro clusters.
This is an older early 80's cluster (note older sytle faceplate) which is close to the look of a non-tacho OZ cluster
This is what a tacho cluster look like.
The digital clock is the same part VW used on Golfs, Jettas (Boras), and other VW products. Here's what they look
like out of the cluster. Note the two tabs with round buttons on the lower edge corner of the screen. Those are the
adjusters. The plastic wears over time making clock adjustment difficult. Depends on how often you disconnect your
battery, I suppose.
Here's Jim Thompson's information essay on clusters in general with the tachometer add-on at the end of the article.
You could always get fancy and do one of these.
BenT

Gday Sam,

Welcome back m8y .... we've missed you!

Heh that sure is encouraging you've achieved the cluster conversion no problemo except for the dicky digital clock issue. Probably explains why these clocks are still available brand new but at $US150 plus shipping @ http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van_1223689737929/page_558_1059/factory_digital_clock.html , starts to get expensive eh. 

It also means it could be problematic for BenT to confirm whether or not the digital clock in the wrecker sourced clusters is in fact operational, including the adjustment buttons ... oh dear.

Hhhmmm  ..... oxygen sensor light eh ........ I didn't know there was a light for that in the cluster either. Is that really true?

Heh Sam, we may need to do a field day on your modded US instrument cluster!

Cheers.

Ken


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "heysamuelarnold" <me@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Ken,
>
> I've already taken a US Instrument cluster with tacho & digital clock and installed in my ex-telstra.
>
> Just took Aussie speedo and put into US cluster so can read Km's not miles. Easy, few screws, few plugs, speedo cable plug, plug to loom, careful with the ribbon circuit board. If I can do this one, anyone can. I always find the most annoying part the clips that hold that cluster / brake fluid reservoir cover in place. My ex-telstra already had all necessary wiring in place.
>
> BTW as discussed many of the clusters available are in varying condition, many missing plastic tabs where four screws hold cluster to metal dash. Mine I think is in with 3 screws and 1 washer + screw job as tabs a bit deteriorated. I think the annoying cluster cover is somewhat responsible for so many with these screw tabs broken.
>
> Also the digital clock, after a good period of service, has decided now not to respond to the adjustment buttons. Good fun resetting it after I disconnect the battery to do some work.
>
> One of the other differences can be the OXS light, but this has never lit up for mine, so either wiring not there for it or my oxygen sensor is ok??
>
> Having tacho = good. Changed the way I drive her.
>
> :) Sam
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" unclekenz@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > Gday BenT,
> >
> > Seems to me the US sourced cluster assembly would be the one to modify,
> > just add the Oz speedo and whichever enclosure is in the best condition.
> > Or am I missing something else here?
> >
> > Is there a pic somewhere online of the US instrument cluster so we can
> > simply eyeball an A-B comparison with our Oz one to satisfy there are no
> > added or deleted features with either?
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
> > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, BenT Syncro <syncro@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 7:14 PM, plander@ wrote:
> > >
> > > > Except the speedo, it's a straight swap. We already have the tacho
> > wire.
> > > >
> > > > To convert from a clock to a tacho, you will need the printed
> > circuit and
> > > > the tacho.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I suspected as much because I have converted a few Eurpean T3's with
> > just
> > > the tach & fill swap.
> > > To add the digital clock, you need the backing clock and backing
> > pieces that
> > > go with that as well.
> > >
> > >
> > > BenT
> > >
> >
>

The clocks are relatively robust. Cost used is about US$20. It is very easy to test complete clusters. I can simply plug it in one of my Vanagons.

As for Sam's Ox sensor light, first thing I'd look for is it the light goes on when you turn the key to the of position. If it is completely out, it might be just the bulb. The light is designed to go out once the van is running. I would also check if the OZ Syncros are equipped with the Ox sensor resetable box which is connected to the speedo cable IIRC.

BenT

Sent via BenTberry by BenTNT


From: "Ken"
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 11:34:50 -0000
To: <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Instrument cluster with tacho & digital clock. Oz alloy roo bar

Gday Sam,

Welcome back m8y .... we've missed you!

Heh that sure is encouraging you've achieved the cluster conversion no problemo except for the dicky digital clock issue. Probably explains why these clocks are still available brand new but at $US150 plus shipping @ http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van_1223689737929/page_558_1059/factory_digital_clock.html , starts to get expensive eh. 

It also means it could be problematic for BenT to confirm whether or not the digital clock in the wrecker sourced clusters is in fact operational, including the adjustment buttons ... oh dear.

Hhhmmm  ..... oxygen sensor light eh ........ I didn't know there was a light for that in the cluster either. Is that really true?

Heh Sam, we may need to do a field day on your modded US instrument cluster!

Cheers.

Ken


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "heysamuelarnold" <me@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Ken,
>
> I've already taken a US Instrument cluster with tacho & digital clock and installed in my ex-telstra.
>
> Just took Aussie speedo and put into US cluster so can read Km's not miles. Easy, few screws, few plugs, speedo cable plug, plug to loom, careful with the ribbon circuit board. If I can do this one, anyone can. I always find the most annoying part the clips that hold that cluster / brake fluid reservoir cover in place. My ex-telstra already had all necessary wiring in place.
>
> BTW as discussed many of the clusters available are in varying condition, many missing plastic tabs where four screws hold cluster to metal dash. Mine I think is in with 3 screws and 1 washer + screw job as tabs a bit deteriorated. I think the annoying cluster cover is somewhat responsible for so many with these screw tabs broken.
>
> Also the digital clock, after a good period of service, has decided now not to respond to the adjustment buttons. Good fun resetting it after I disconnect the battery to do some work.
>
> One of the other differences can be the OXS light, but this has never lit up for mine, so either wiring not there for it or my oxygen sensor is ok??
>
> Having tacho = good. Changed the way I drive her.
>
> :) Sam
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" unclekenz@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > Gday BenT,
> >
> > Seems to me the US sourced cluster assembly would be the one to modify,
> > just add the Oz speedo and whichever enclosure is in the best condition.
> > Or am I missing something else here?
> >
> > Is there a pic somewhere online of the US instrument cluster so we can
> > simply eyeball an A-B comparison with our Oz one to satisfy there are no
> > added or deleted features with either?
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
> > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, BenT Syncro <syncro@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 7:14 PM, plander@ wrote:
> > >
> > > > Except the speedo, it's a straight swap. We already have the tacho
> > wire.
> > > >
> > > > To convert from a clock to a tacho, you will need the printed
> > circuit and
> > > > the tacho.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I suspected as much because I have converted a few Eurpean T3's with
> > just
> > > the tach & fill swap.
> > > To add the digital clock, you need the backing clock and backing
> > pieces that
> > > go with that as well.
> > >
> > >
> > > BenT
> > >
> >
>

Gday BenT,

Thanks for all those ... sounds like the 86-91 would be the only one to
go for. Sam seems to have had success with his.

I'm also wondering how difficult might it be to find any in good
condition, all working components and not cannibalised.

Also how many here in Oz may be interested in this mod, to give BenT an
idea of numbers.

Cheers.

Ken


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, BenT Syncro <syncro@...>
wrote:
>
> On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 4:06 AM, Ken unclekenz@... wrote:
>
> >
> > Gday BenT,
> >
> > Seems to me the US sourced cluster assembly would be the one to
modify,
> > just add the Oz speedo and whichever enclosure is in the best
condition.
> > Or am I missing something else here?
> >
> > Is there a pic somewhere online of the US instrument cluster so we
can
> > simply eyeball an A-B comparison with our Oz one to satisfy there
are no
> > added or deleted features with either?
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> > Ken
>
>
>
> Ken,
>
> Here are photos of 2wd clusters but the look is very similar to Syncro
> clusters.
>
> This is an older early 80's cluster (note older sytle faceplate) which
is
> close to the look of a non-tacho OZ cluster
> http://images.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/2346114.jpg
> http://images.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/2346115.jpg
>
> This is what a tacho cluster look like.
> http://images.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/2466120.jpg
> http://www.autopriore.com/images/P3230011.JPG
>
http://www.bentleypublishers.com/images//features/rv89/bentley-rv85-exce\
rpt-1-2005-sep-08.jpg
>
> The digital clock is the same part VW used on Golfs, Jettas (Boras),
and
> other VW products. Here's what they look
> like out of the cluster. Note the two tabs with round buttons on the
lower
> edge corner of the screen. Those are the
> adjusters. The plastic wears over time making clock adjustment
difficult.
> Depends on how often you disconnect your
> battery, I suppose.
> http://www.van-cafe.com/shop/images/255.919.203C_lg.jpg
>
> Here's Jim Thompson's information essay on clusters in general with
the
> tachometer add-on at the end of the article.
> http://www.oldvolkshome.com/late_van_cluster_install.pdf
>
> You could always get fancy and do one of these.
> http://www.members.shaw.ca/McTavishPac/cluster/pages/page_2.html
>
>
>
> BenT
>