fan belt

kiehn38 · 5 November 2009 05:42

Hi LES and the rest of us.....Went to the dealership today and ordered the stone guards $ 24 they will arrive with next shipment x Germany. Also I ordered the o/s toothed belt.I know too little abouy the intresit workings of these thinge, I just want to have a spare belt for someone in trouble. Hartrmut PS Thanks so much for the rains today!!!!!

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Les Harris
Sent: Thursday, 5 November 2009 3:23 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Belts and Guards

The shake-out of the stone guards is as follows:

The one illustrated in ETKA is:

Item 18 025 199 913 stone deflector, upper

This is on the alternator side of the crankshaft pulley.

The one not illustrated in ETKA is:

Item (18) 025 199 915 stone deflector, lower

This is on the coolant pump side of the crankshaft pulley.

I had a look into my engine bay, hoping to be able to get a picture of this one but it is buried too deeply, so much so that I am not even sure what it bolts to.

(I notice that my alternator belt is externally ribbed while the power steering pump belt is internally ribbed.)

Les

kiehn38 · 5 November 2009 06:17

Hi LES,

Ken is poss. not available, I will respond to your question. Ken and I did a deal at Sackville, I mentioned to him that I had this original guard a bit dented though but maybe fixable. In return for the guard I accepted a 5 teat udder protector for that sheet thing! Needless to say that I came out of this deal well ahead of Kenny, “cause he had to work for a week or two to panel beat the guard whilst I slipped on the plastic distributor protector in no time at all !! Now seeing the finished product I must admit it’s not only HAHAs with Ken, it’s also superb craftsmanship. Well done Ken!!

HAHA Hartmut

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Les Harris
Sent: Thursday, 5 November 2009 4:10 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Belts and Guards

Ken,

I haven’t seen one of those before. Where did you get it?

Speaking of stone damage, Phill has pics of the CV joint protectors on his website (http://members.ozemail.com.au/~pjlander/CV_Boot_Protectors.htm)

Anything that protects the CV boots would be very useful for off-road use.

Les

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken Garratt
Sent: 05 November 2009 15:56
To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Belts and Guards [1 Attachment]

Gday Les,

The mind boggles. I think I have a headache now, just had a look in the engine bay, I can't fathom how/where they are fixed and whether or not they pose as a maintenance impediment issue.

So far, the protection I have in place for stones and skid protector plate under the motor is as can be seen in the attached pic, I do accept this can limit but not necessarily eliminate stones getting in and around the belts.

Cheers.

Ken

syncroaustralia · 5 November 2009 06:33

On the subject of belts, the Owner’s Handbook lists:

Crankshaft/Coolant/Alternator 025 903 137 A 9.5mm X 1100mm
Crankshaft/Steering Pump 025 903 137 9.5mm X 1080

ETKA (pages dated 07 Apr 2008) lists:

Item 4 b 023 903 137 A v-belt for alternator: F >> 24-G-093 123 9,5X1080 45A,65A
Item 15 b 023 903 137 A v-belt (for PS pump) 10X1075MM 1

The later publication (ETKA) lists two different belt widths and lengths under the same part number!!

Confusing? Sure is!

Les

bellrmit · 5 November 2009 14:38

My syncro came with genuine stone deflectors for both the front CV's and the alternator belt and was one of the influences that caused me to go a tad further to Perth to buy it rather than a Trakka one I was also considering in Sydney. Had also read a "round Australia in a T3" article where the main problem struck by the writer was shredding of alternator belts caused by stones jambing in between the pulley and belt.Interestingly enough the article also remarked on seeing a Syncro with 16" wheels in Broome which turned out to be the one I subsequently bought.

Anyway was waxing forth on the merits of the alternator belt protector to my mechanic and he told me that its true purpose was to prevent damage from a build up of snow and slush freezing when parked in extremely cold conditions. Anyone heard of that? Makes sense given the Steyer Puch Austrian origins. Must admit that it acted very effectively in this guise last year on our "Kombis to the Kape" trip to Cape York. Had absolutely no problems with snow and slush build up!

Cheers

Roger

--- On Thu, 5/11/09, Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

From: Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Belts and Guards
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Received: Thursday, 5 November, 2009, 1:09 PM

Ken,

I haven’t seen one of those before. Where did you get it?

Speaking of stone damage, Phill has pics of the CV joint protectors on his website (http://members. ozemail.com. au/~pjlander/ CV_Boot_Protecto rs.htm)
Anything that protects the CV boots would be very useful for off-road use.

Les

From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Ken Garratt
Sent: 05 November 2009 15:56
To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Belts and Guards [1 Attachment]

Gday Les,

The mind boggles. I think I have a headache now, just had a look in the engine bay, I can't fathom how/where they are fixed and whether or not they pose as a maintenance impediment issue.

So far, the protection I have in place for stones and skid protector plate under the motor is as can be seen in the attached pic, I do accept this can limit but not necessarily eliminate stones getting in and around the belts.

Cheers.

Ken

Win 1 of 4 Sony home entertainment packs thanks to Yahoo!7. Enter now.

kombi4x427lc · 5 November 2009 20:13

Thanks Ken,

If I get a spare hour soon I will.

Cheers,

Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Garratt " <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
To: <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 11:37 PM
Subject: FW: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Belts and Guards

> Scott,
> The rear tin panel is mostly aesthetic and probably best removed should I
> trip about during summer or out to hotter regions as it would restrict
> muffler heat dissipation. Otherwise I'm happy to leave it installed, I'm
> sure it has some value as a stone guard. Hartmut thinks it may be the only
> one in captivity here in Oz.
> The motor protector/skid plate shown, I understand is an original special
> order genuine VW product for the Oz T3 Syncro, I've yet to see or hear of
> anyone else with one the same. If you want ideas, you can always have a
> closer look at it whenever.
> Cheers.
> Ken.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mr Scott Pitcher <spbconsulting@bigpond.com>
> Sent: Thursday, 5 November 2009 4:38 PM
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Belts and Guards
>
>
>
> [The entire original message is not included]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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19:51:00

syncro · 5 November 2009 20:44

Do you know the part number of the genuine VW belt that they sold you?

> Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Phill,
>
>
>
> Thanks for that. I wonder if more recent R&D research has superseded 80s
> findings.
>
>
>
> Let me preface further comment by saying I went to my local VW service
> people (some time ago) to obtain a new spare belt. They sold me the
> untoothed version, I believe the one which is used with other
> transporters that don't have the 90 Amp alternator. Essentially they
> said that was the only one they use. HHHmmmmmmmmmmm. Not impressed.
> Surprised in fact.
>
>
>
> Anyway, so I thought to try Bursons, a pretty big auto parts supplier
> around Australia to the automotive industry.
>
>
>
> They explained the toothed belt is superseded now, replaced by a belt
> that is "ribbed" instead on its back so as to retain the ability to turn
> small diameters and as well, this newer design helps cut/eliminate belt
> squeel.
>
>
>
> Now I'm no expert so I can't comment on the validity of his explanation.
> All I can say is ... when comparing the VW toothed and the Dayco ribbed,
> they both turn equally small diameters, they both have much the same
> surface area bearing on the pulley and so far, touch wood, no belt
> squeel from the Dayco. An acid test for those who go offroad on dusty
> roads ... I've witnessed a number of syncros start up a lot of belt
> squeel when first starting the motor. perhaps put it down to the
> presence of an accumulation of dust on the pulleys and belts or else ...
> initial high loads from the alternator.
>
>
>
> So at the moment I'm using what the Bursons Rep sold me ... Dayco Top
> Cog 15430 11A 1090. Made in USA.
>
> I tend to keep my belt looser ..... as you say .... due to the water
> pump issue.
>
>
>
> Food for thought. Time will tell?
>
>
>
> Now I know you will proceed to tear my comments to shreds ...... haha
>
>
>
> Cheers.
>
>
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: plander@optusnet.com.au
> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 12:29:54 +1100
> Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] fan belt
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This was a factory change during the 80s due to water pump failures. The
> toothed belt can go around a tighter radius and has more contact area
> with the pulleys so that the belt does not need to be so tight to avoid
> slippage.
>
> Pre toothed belt MV engines had numerous water pump bearing failures.
>
> Phill
>
> > Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Gday Phill,
> >
> >
> >
> > re: "Only use a toothed alternator belt".
> >
> >
> > This gets mentioned periodically, without explanation as to why.
> >
> >
> >
> > Aside from conjecture, are there cogent reasons for only using the
> > toothed belt for the t3, compared with standard belts?
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> >
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > From: plander@optusnet.com.au
> > Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 08:25:27 +1100
> > Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] fan belt
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > some of the rocks we'd scooped up on Launders had lodged in the engine
>
> > bay, and that one had found its way into the fan belt. Fortunately the
>
> > fan belt wasn't broken but will need
> > > some
> > > readjusting to overcome the shreaking and tweating.
> > >
> >
> > http://members.ozemail.com.au/~pjlander/volkswagen_syncro.htm
> >
> > alternator belt stone guards 025 199 913 and 025 199 915
> >
> > Only use a toothed alternator belt (VW 025 903 137G) and do not
> > overtension to avoid water pump bearing failure.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________________
> > Looking to move this spring? With all the lastest places, searching
> has
> > never been easier. Look now!
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Looking for a date? View photos of singles in your area!
> http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/

syncro · 5 November 2009 20:45

>
> The one not illustrated in ETKA is:
>
>
>
> Item (18) 025 199 915 stone deflector, lower
>
>
>
> This is on the coolant pump side of the crankshaft pulley.
>
>
>
> I had a look into my engine bay, hoping to be able to get a picture of
> this
> one but it is buried too deeply, so much so that I am not even sure what
> it
> bolts to.
>
>

I think it bolts to the engine mount.

syncro · 5 November 2009 21:27

> Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> On the subject of belts, the Owner's Handbook lists:
>
> * Crankshaft/Coolant/Alternator 025 903 137 A
> 9.5mm X 1100mm

That is the old plain belt.

025 903 137 G is the toothed belt.

>
> ETKA (pages dated 07 Apr 2008) lists:
>
> * Item 4 b 023 903 137 A v-belt for alternator: F
> >> 24-G-093 123 9,5X1080 45A,65A
> * Item 15 b 023 903 137 A v-belt (for PS pump)
> 10X1075MM 1
>
>
>
>
>
> The later publication (ETKA) lists two different belt widths and lengths
> under the same part number!!
>

They have probably changed specs over the years and forgot to update both pages. It is only 2.5mm in length (pulley-pulley) and 0.5mm width. Would you be able to tell the difference?

francesca.coles · 5 November 2009 23:35

Hi all,

Thanks for the info re alternator belts.

Although our syncro seemed to recover from its rock-crunching cacophony and drove back to Melbourne without a whimper, I wonder whether we should be inspecting for any damage that may have resulted. Any ideas about what, if anything, could conceivably go wrong as a result?

Thanks,

Francesca.

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 7:44 AM, <plander@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

Do you know the part number of the genuine VW belt that they sold you?

> Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Phill,
>
>
>
> Thanks for that. I wonder if more recent R&D research has superseded 80s
> findings.
>
>
>
> Let me preface further comment by saying I went to my local VW service
> people (some time ago) to obtain a new spare belt. They sold me the
> untoothed version, I believe the one which is used with other
> transporters that don't have the 90 Amp alternator. Essentially they
> said that was the only one they use. HHHmmmmmmmmmmm. Not impressed.
> Surprised in fact.
>
>
>
> Anyway, so I thought to try Bursons, a pretty big auto parts supplier
> around Australia to the automotive industry.
>
>
>
> They explained the toothed belt is superseded now, replaced by a belt
> that is "ribbed" instead on its back so as to retain the ability to turn
> small diameters and as well, this newer design helps cut/eliminate belt
> squeel.
>
>
>
> Now I'm no expert so I can't comment on the validity of his explanation.
> All I can say is ... when comparing the VW toothed and the Dayco ribbed,
> they both turn equally small diameters, they both have much the same
> surface area bearing on the pulley and so far, touch wood, no belt
> squeel from the Dayco. An acid test for those who go offroad on dusty
> roads ... I've witnessed a number of syncros start up a lot of belt
> squeel when first starting the motor. perhaps put it down to the
> presence of an accumulation of dust on the pulleys and belts or else ...
> initial high loads from the alternator.
>
>
>
> So at the moment I'm using what the Bursons Rep sold me ... Dayco Top
> Cog 15430 11A 1090. Made in USA.
>
> I tend to keep my belt looser ..... as you say .... due to the water
> pump issue.
>
>
>
> Food for thought. Time will tell?
>
>
>
> Now I know you will proceed to tear my comments to shreds ...... haha
>
>
>
> Cheers.
>
>
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: plander@optusnet.com.au
> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 12:29:54 +1100
> Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] fan belt
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This was a factory change during the 80s due to water pump failures. The
> toothed belt can go around a tighter radius and has more contact area
> with the pulleys so that the belt does not need to be so tight to avoid
> slippage.
>
> Pre toothed belt MV engines had numerous water pump bearing failures.
>
> Phill
>
> > Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Gday Phill,
> >
> >
> >
> > re: "Only use a toothed alternator belt".
> >
> >
> > This gets mentioned periodically, without explanation as to why.
> >
> >
> >
> > Aside from conjecture, are there cogent reasons for only using the
> > toothed belt for the t3, compared with standard belts?
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> >
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > From: plander@optusnet.com.au
> > Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 08:25:27 +1100
> > Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] fan belt
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > some of the rocks we'd scooped up on Launders had lodged in the engine
>
> > bay, and that one had found its way into the fan belt. Fortunately the
>
> > fan belt wasn't broken but will need
> > > some
> > > readjusting to overcome the shreaking and tweating.
> > >
> >
> > http://members.ozemail.com.au/~pjlander/volkswagen_syncro.htm
> >
> > alternator belt stone guards 025 199 913 and 025 199 915
> >
> > Only use a toothed alternator belt (VW 025 903 137G) and do not
> > overtension to avoid water pump bearing failure.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________________
> > Looking to move this spring? With all the lastest places, searching
> has
> > never been easier. Look now!
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Looking for a date? View photos of singles in your area!
> http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/

syncroaustralia · 5 November 2009 23:46

Francesca,

No, the belt distorts and does not damage the pulleys but I will have a look at it at the DOTVW.

Les

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Francesca Coles
Sent: 06 November 2009 10:36
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] fan belt

Hi all,

Thanks for the info re alternator belts.

Although our syncro seemed to recover from its rock-crunching cacophony and drove back to Melbourne without a whimper, I wonder whether we should be inspecting for any damage that may have resulted. Any ideas about what, if anything, could conceivably go wrong as a result?

Thanks,

Francesca.

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 7:44 AM, <plander@optusnet. com.au> wrote:

Do you know the part number of the genuine VW belt that they sold you?

> Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail. com>

wrote:

>
>
> Phill,
>
>
>
> Thanks for that. I wonder if more recent R&D research has superseded

80s

> findings.
>
>
>
> Let me preface further comment by saying I went to my local VW service
> people (some time ago) to obtain a new spare belt. They sold me the
> untoothed version, I believe the one which is used with other
> transporters that don't have the 90 Amp alternator. Essentially they
> said that was the only one they use. HHHmmmmmmmmmmm. Not impressed.
> Surprised in fact.
>
>
>
> Anyway, so I thought to try Bursons, a pretty big auto parts supplier
> around Australia

to the automotive industry.

>
>
>
> They explained the toothed belt is superseded now, replaced by a belt
> that is "ribbed" instead on its back so as to retain the ability

to turn

> small diameters and as well, this newer design helps cut/eliminate belt
> squeel.
>
>
>
> Now I'm no expert so I can't comment on the validity of his explanation.
> All I can say is ... when comparing the VW toothed and the Dayco ribbed,
> they both turn equally small diameters, they both have much the same
> surface area bearing on the pulley and so far, touch wood, no belt
> squeel from the Dayco. An acid test for those who go offroad on dusty
> roads ... I've witnessed a number of syncros start up a lot of belt
> squeel when first starting the motor. perhaps put it down to the
> presence of an accumulation of dust on the pulleys and belts or else ...
> initial high loads from the alternator.
>
>
>
> So at the moment I'm using what the Bursons Rep sold me ... Dayco Top
> Cog 15430 11A 1090. Made in

w:st="on">USA .

>
> I tend to keep my belt looser ..... as you say .... due to the water
> pump issue.
>
>
>
> Food for thought. Time will tell?
>
>
>
> Now I know you will proceed to tear my comments to shreds ...... haha
>
>
>
> Cheers.
>
>
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> From: plander@optusnet. com.au
> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 12:29:54 +1100
> Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] fan belt
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This was a factory change during the 80s due to water pump failures. The
> toothed belt can go around a tighter radius and has more contact area
> with the pulleys so that the belt does not need to be so tight to avoid
> slippage.
>
> Pre toothed belt MV engines had numerous water pump bearing failures.
>
> Phill
>
> > Ken Garratt <

target="_blank">unclekenz@hotmail. com> wrote:

> >
> >
> > Gday Phill,
> >
> >
> >
> > re: "Only use a toothed alternator belt".
> >
> >
> > This gets mentioned periodically, without explanation as to why.
> >
> >
> >
> > Aside from conjecture, are there cogent reasons for only using the
> > toothed belt for the t3, compared with standard belts?
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> >
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
> > To:

target="_blank">Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com

> > From: plander@optusnet. com.au
> > Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 08:25:27 +1100
> > Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] fan belt
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > some of the rocks we'd scooped up on Launders had lodged in the

engine

>
> > bay, and that one had found its way into the fan belt. Fortunately

the

>
> > fan belt wasn't broken but will need
> > > some
> > > readjusting to overcome the shreaking and tweating.
> > >
> >
> >

href="http://members.ozemail.com.au/~pjlander/volkswagen_syncro.htm" target="_blank">http://members. ozemail.com. au/~pjlander/ volkswagen_ syncro.htm

> >
> > alternator belt stone guards 025 199 913 and 025 199 915
> >
> > Only use a toothed alternator belt (VW 025 903 137G) and do not
> > overtension to avoid water pump bearing failure.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> > Looking to move this spring? With all the lastest places, searching
> has
> > never been easier. Look now!
> >

target="_blank">http://clk.atdmt. com/NMN/go/ 157631292/ direct/01/

>
>
>
>

> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> Looking for a date? View photos of singles in your area!
> http://clk.atdmt. com/NMN/go/ 150855801/ direct/01/

francesca.coles · 5 November 2009 23:53

Thanks, Les. I assume all is OK, but good to check.

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 10:46 AM, Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

Francesca,

No, the belt distorts and does not damage the pulleys but I will have a look at it at the DOTVW.

Les

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Francesca Coles
Sent: 06 November 2009 10:36

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] fan belt

Hi all,

Thanks for the info re alternator belts.

Although our syncro seemed to recover from its rock-crunching cacophony and drove back to Melbourne without a whimper, I wonder whether we should be inspecting for any damage that may have resulted. Any ideas about what, if anything, could conceivably go wrong as a result?

Thanks,

Francesca.

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 7:44 AM, <plander@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

Do you know the part number of the genuine VW belt that they sold you?

> Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Phill,
>
>
>
> Thanks for that. I wonder if more recent R&D research has superseded 80s
> findings.
>
>
>
> Let me preface further comment by saying I went to my local VW service
> people (some time ago) to obtain a new spare belt. They sold me the
> untoothed version, I believe the one which is used with other
> transporters that don't have the 90 Amp alternator. Essentially they
> said that was the only one they use. HHHmmmmmmmmmmm. Not impressed.
> Surprised in fact.
>
>
>
> Anyway, so I thought to try Bursons, a pretty big auto parts supplier
> around Australia to the automotive industry.
>
>
>
> They explained the toothed belt is superseded now, replaced by a belt
> that is "ribbed" instead on its back so as to retain the ability to turn
> small diameters and as well, this newer design helps cut/eliminate belt
> squeel.
>
>
>
> Now I'm no expert so I can't comment on the validity of his explanation.
> All I can say is ... when comparing the VW toothed and the Dayco ribbed,
> they both turn equally small diameters, they both have much the same
> surface area bearing on the pulley and so far, touch wood, no belt
> squeel from the Dayco. An acid test for those who go offroad on dusty
> roads ... I've witnessed a number of syncros start up a lot of belt
> squeel when first starting the motor. perhaps put it down to the
> presence of an accumulation of dust on the pulleys and belts or else ...
> initial high loads from the alternator.
>
>
>
> So at the moment I'm using what the Bursons Rep sold me ... Dayco Top
> Cog 15430 11A 1090. Made in USA.
>
> I tend to keep my belt looser ..... as you say .... due to the water
> pump issue.
>
>
>
> Food for thought. Time will tell?
>
>
>
> Now I know you will proceed to tear my comments to shreds ...... haha
>
>
>
> Cheers.
>
>
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: plander@optusnet.com.au
> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 12:29:54 +1100
> Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] fan belt
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This was a factory change during the 80s due to water pump failures. The
> toothed belt can go around a tighter radius and has more contact area
> with the pulleys so that the belt does not need to be so tight to avoid
> slippage.
>
> Pre toothed belt MV engines had numerous water pump bearing failures.
>
> Phill
>
> > Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Gday Phill,
> >
> >
> >
> > re: "Only use a toothed alternator belt".
> >
> >
> > This gets mentioned periodically, without explanation as to why.
> >
> >
> >
> > Aside from conjecture, are there cogent reasons for only using the
> > toothed belt for the t3, compared with standard belts?
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> >
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > From: plander@optusnet.com.au
> > Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 08:25:27 +1100
> > Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] fan belt
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > some of the rocks we'd scooped up on Launders had lodged in the engine
>
> > bay, and that one had found its way into the fan belt. Fortunately the
>
> > fan belt wasn't broken but will need
> > > some
> > > readjusting to overcome the shreaking and tweating.
> > >
> >
> > http://members.ozemail.com.au/~pjlander/volkswagen_syncro.htm
> >
> > alternator belt stone guards 025 199 913 and 025 199 915
> >
> > Only use a toothed alternator belt (VW 025 903 137G) and do not
> > overtension to avoid water pump bearing failure.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________________
> > Looking to move this spring? With all the lastest places, searching
> has
> > never been easier. Look now!
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/
>
>
>
>

> __________________________________________________________
> Looking for a date? View photos of singles in your area!
> http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/

syncro · 6 November 2009 00:03

Usually a broken fan belt.

I don't remember hearing of any other damage.

> Francesca Coles <fcoles6@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Thanks for the info re alternator belts.
>
> Although our syncro seemed to recover from its rock-crunching cacophony
> and
> drove back to Melbourne without a whimper, I wonder whether we should be
> inspecting for any damage that may have resulted. Any ideas about what,
> if
> anything, could conceivably go wrong as a result?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Francesca.
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 7:44 AM, <plander@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Do you know the part number of the genuine VW belt that they sold you?
> >
> >
> > > Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com <unclekenz%40hotmail.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Phill,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for that. I wonder if more recent R&D research has superseded
> 80s
> > > findings.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Let me preface further comment by saying I went to my local VW
> service
> > > people (some time ago) to obtain a new spare belt. They sold me the
> > > untoothed version, I believe the one which is used with other
> > > transporters that don't have the 90 Amp alternator. Essentially they
> > > said that was the only one they use. HHHmmmmmmmmmmm. Not impressed.
> > > Surprised in fact.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Anyway, so I thought to try Bursons, a pretty big auto parts
> supplier
> > > around Australia to the automotive industry.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > They explained the toothed belt is superseded now, replaced by a
> belt
> > > that is "ribbed" instead on its back so as to retain the ability to
> turn
> > > small diameters and as well, this newer design helps cut/eliminate
> belt
> > > squeel.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Now I'm no expert so I can't comment on the validity of his
> explanation.
> > > All I can say is ... when comparing the VW toothed and the Dayco
> ribbed,
> > > they both turn equally small diameters, they both have much the same
> > > surface area bearing on the pulley and so far, touch wood, no belt
> > > squeel from the Dayco. An acid test for those who go offroad on
> dusty
> > > roads ... I've witnessed a number of syncros start up a lot of belt
> > > squeel when first starting the motor. perhaps put it down to the
> > > presence of an accumulation of dust on the pulleys and belts or else
> ...
> > > initial high loads from the alternator.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > So at the moment I'm using what the Bursons Rep sold me ... Dayco
> Top
> > > Cog 15430 11A 1090. Made in USA.
> > >
> > > I tend to keep my belt looser ..... as you say .... due to the water
> > > pump issue.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Food for thought. Time will tell?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Now I know you will proceed to tear my comments to shreds ......
> haha
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cheers.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ken
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To:
> Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com<Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > From: plander@optusnet.com.au <plander%40optusnet.com.au>
> > > Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 12:29:54 +1100
> > > Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] fan belt
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This was a factory change during the 80s due to water pump failures.
> The
> > > toothed belt can go around a tighter radius and has more contact
> area
> > > with the pulleys so that the belt does not need to be so tight to
> avoid
> > > slippage.
> > >
> > > Pre toothed belt MV engines had numerous water pump bearing
> failures.
> > >
> > > Phill
> > >
> > > > Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com <unclekenz%40hotmail.com>>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Gday Phill,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > re: "Only use a toothed alternator belt".
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This gets mentioned periodically, without explanation as to why.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Aside from conjecture, are there cogent reasons for only using the
> > > > toothed belt for the t3, compared with standard belts?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Cheers.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ken
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To:
> Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com<Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > > From: plander@optusnet.com.au <plander%40optusnet.com.au>
> > > > Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 08:25:27 +1100
> > > > Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] fan belt
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > some of the rocks we'd scooped up on Launders had lodged in the
> engine
> > >
> > > > bay, and that one had found its way into the fan belt. Fortunately
> the
> > >
> > > > fan belt wasn't broken but will need
> > > > > some
> > > > > readjusting to overcome the shreaking and tweating.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://members.ozemail.com.au/~pjlander/volkswagen_syncro.htm
> > > >
> > > > alternator belt stone guards 025 199 913 and 025 199 915
> > > >
> > > > Only use a toothed alternator belt (VW 025 903 137G) and do not
> > > > overtension to avoid water pump bearing failure.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________________
> > > > Looking to move this spring? With all the lastest places,
> searching
> > > has
> > > > never been easier. Look now!
> > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________________
> > > Looking for a date? View photos of singles in your area!
> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/
> >
> >
> >

garycookson2 · 6 November 2009 00:35

If anyone is interested I have gone nuts and bought a 12v swamp cooler/
air con from the US

Specifically this one (Mk4):

http://www.swampy.net/mk3.html

It should arrive just in time for the DOVW with a bit of luck so if
anyone wants to try it out they will be most welcome.

Not cheap but if it keeps the kids cool on long journeys it will be
money well spent.

The US postal service has dramatically increased their prices
apparently so buying stuff from Gowesty etc is now really expensive.
$350 just in shipping for a set of 4 springs.

Cheers
Gary

francesca.coles · 6 November 2009 00:44

Wow, Gary, you have gone all out in the quest for cool kids. I'd be interested to see that baby in motion. Will you be cranking out cold drinks for the masses at DOTVW?

The US Postal charges are shameful! We think we're getting good value with the dollar nearly at parity, but that's a huge disincentive to buy US goods.

Francesca.

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Gary Cookson <gary@twentytwentyone.net> wrote:

If anyone is interested I have gone nuts and bought a 12v swamp cooler/
air con from the US

Specifically this one (Mk4):

http://www.swampy.net/mk3.html

It should arrive just in time for the DOVW with a bit of luck so if
anyone wants to try it out they will be most welcome.

Not cheap but if it keeps the kids cool on long journeys it will be
money well spent.

The US postal service has dramatically increased their prices
apparently so buying stuff from Gowesty etc is now really expensive.
$350 just in shipping for a set of 4 springs.

Cheers
Gary

unclekenz · 6 November 2009 00:51

Gary,
I thought it was GoWesty shipping charges was the issue ... not USPS.
They seem to just about double the USPS cost, I think they milk us overseas customers dry with euphemistically called "handling charges". I had a go at them once, suspect it fell on deaf ears though.

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gary@twentytwentyone.net
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 11:35:31 +1100
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] 12volt cooling

If anyone is interested I have gone nuts and bought a 12v swamp cooler/
air con from the US

Specifically this one (Mk4):

http://www.swampy. net/mk3.html

It should arrive just in time for the DOVW with a bit of luck so if
anyone wants to try it out they will be most welcome.

Not cheap but if it keeps the kids cool on long journeys it will be
money well spent.

The US postal service has dramatically increased their prices
apparently so buying stuff from Gowesty etc is now really expensive.
$350 just in shipping for a set of 4 springs.

Cheers
Gary

Head to the Daily Blob on Windows Live For more of what happens online

garycookson2 · 6 November 2009 01:02

Not sure Ken, wouldn't surprise me with GW, their prices are a bit out of this world at the best of times. I also got costs on springs from syncro.org and he was bemoaning the postal costs. $460 for a set of springs and shocks!

Either way, not sure what to do now. I think i will have to try and find a more local solution like stretching. It is only the fronts that are a bit soft, the rears are fine. At least i can get the OME shocks here even if i have to wait.

[2 0 / 2 1 Design]
28 Gwynne St
Richmond
Vic 3121
gary@twentytwentyone.net
www.twentytwentyone.net
Tel 3 9429 1868
Fax 3 9421 1110
Mob 0417 352782

On 06/11/2009, at 11:51 AM, Ken Garratt wrote:

Gary,
I thought it was GoWesty shipping charges was the issue ... not USPS.
They seem to just about double the USPS cost, I think they milk us overseas customers dry with euphemistically called "handling charges". I had a go at them once, suspect it fell on deaf ears though.

To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
From: gary@twentytwentyon e.net
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 11:35:31 +1100
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] 12volt cooling

If anyone is interested I have gone nuts and bought a 12v swamp cooler/
air con from the US

Specifically this one (Mk4):

http://www.swampy. net/mk3.html

It should arrive just in time for the DOVW with a bit of luck so if
anyone wants to try it out they will be most welcome.

Not cheap but if it keeps the kids cool on long journeys it will be
money well spent.

The US postal service has dramatically increased their prices
apparently so buying stuff from Gowesty etc is now really expensive.
$350 just in shipping for a set of 4 springs.

Cheers
Gary

Head to the Daily Blob on Windows Live For more of what happens online

garycookson2 · 6 November 2009 01:09

Hi Francesca, only the best for my boys! Anything to lower the grumpiness levels.

Should be interesting if it works as it has a relatively low current draw so can operate from the house battery when stationary.

I shall be charging $5 to sit in my van for 5 mins at DOVW if it is a hot day. That way i can afford to buy something small and light from the US!

Gary

unclekenz · 6 November 2009 01:29

Gary,

Interesting. I remember Hartmut saying about Muller & Muller stretching his springs.

Tell me please just for comparison/benchmark, what are the heights of your van at each wheel arch ... measure off the floor to the wheel arch. Obvious variables would be my 15" wheels, it's a Trakka so heavy and would drop some more when fully loaded for a trip plus present tyre pressures. Forget about all that.
For mine as it stands now:
Front passenger 770mm; Front driver 760mm
Rear passenger 790mm; Rear driver 780mm

I suspect mine is low.

Thanks. Cheers.
Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gary@twentytwentyone.net
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 12:02:50 +1100
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] 12volt cooling

Not sure Ken, wouldn't surprise me with GW, their prices are a bit out of this world at the best of times. I also got costs on springs from syncro.org and he was bemoaning the postal costs. $460 for a set of springs and shocks!

Either way, not sure what to do now. I think i will have to try and find a more local solution like stretching. It is only the fronts that are a bit soft, the rears are fine. At least i can get the OME shocks here even if i have to wait.

[2 0 / 2 1 Design]
28 Gwynne St
Richmond
Vic 3121
gary@twentytwentyon e.net
www.twentytwentyone .net
Tel 3 9429 1868
Fax 3 9421 1110
Mob 0417 352782

On 06/11/2009, at 11:51 AM, Ken Garratt wrote:

Gary,
I thought it was GoWesty shipping charges was the issue ... not USPS.
They seem to just about double the USPS cost, I think they milk us overseas customers dry with euphemistically called "handling charges". I had a go at them once, suspect it fell on deaf ears though.

To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
From: gary@twentytwentyon e.net
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 11:35:31 +1100
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] 12volt cooling

If anyone is interested I have gone nuts and bought a 12v swamp cooler/
air con from the US

Specifically this one (Mk4):

http://www.swampy. net/mk3.html

It should arrive just in time for the DOVW with a bit of luck so if
anyone wants to try it out they will be most welcome.

Not cheap but if it keeps the kids cool on long journeys it will be
money well spent.

The US postal service has dramatically increased their prices
apparently so buying stuff from Gowesty etc is now really expensive.
$350 just in shipping for a set of 4 springs.

Cheers
Gary

Head to the Daily Blob on Windows Live For more of what happens online

With all the lastest places, searching has never been easier. Look now! Looking to move this spring?

kombi4x427lc · 6 November 2009 01:37

Ken,

I just measured mine and these are the details:

Front Driver 855mm

Rear Driver 865mm

Front Passenger 852mm

Rear Passenger 861mm

However mine has extended springs to the rear, thread adjustable coil over koni shocks to the front 15 inch wheels and 235 x 75 x 15 tyres. hence slightly higher than standard - one of the reasons its not shopping centre car-park friendly.

Cheers,

Scott

----- Original Message -----

From: Ken Garratt

To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum

Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 12:29 PM

Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] 12volt cooling

Gary,

Interesting. I remember Hartmut saying about Muller & Muller stretching his springs.

Tell me please just for comparison/benchmar k, what are the heights of your van at each wheel arch ... measure off the floor to the wheel arch. Obvious variables would be my 15" wheels, it's a Trakka so heavy and would drop some more when fully loaded for a trip plus present tyre pressures. Forget about all that.
For mine as it stands now:
Front passenger 770mm; Front driver 760mm
Rear passenger 790mm; Rear driver 780mm

I suspect mine is low.

Thanks. Cheers.
Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
From: gary@twentytwentyon e.net
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 12:02:50 +1100
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] 12volt cooling

Not sure Ken, wouldn't surprise me with GW, their prices are a bit out of this world at the best of times. I also got costs on springs from syncro.org and he was bemoaning the postal costs. $460 for a set of springs and shocks!

Either way, not sure what to do now. I think i will have to try and find a more local solution like stretching. It is only the fronts that are a bit soft, the rears are fine. At least i can get the OME shocks here even if i have to wait.

[2 0 / 2 1 Design]
28 Gwynne St
Richmond
Vic 3121
gary@twentytwentyon e.net
www.twentytwentyone .net
Tel 3 9429 1868
Fax 3 9421 1110
Mob 0417 352782

On 06/11/2009, at 11:51 AM, Ken Garratt wrote:

Gary,
I thought it was GoWesty shipping charges was the issue ... not USPS.
They seem to just about double the USPS cost, I think they milk us overseas customers dry with euphemistically called "handling charges". I had a go at them once, suspect it fell on deaf ears though.

To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
From: gary@twentytwentyon e.net
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 11:35:31 +1100
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] 12volt cooling

If anyone is interested I have gone nuts and bought a 12v swamp cooler/
air con from the US

Specifically this one (Mk4):

http://www.swampy. net/mk3.html

It should arrive just in time for the DOVW with a bit of luck so if
anyone wants to try it out they will be most welcome.

Not cheap but if it keeps the kids cool on long journeys it will be
money well spent.

The US postal service has dramatically increased their prices
apparently so buying stuff from Gowesty etc is now really expensive.
$350 just in shipping for a set of 4 springs.

Cheers
Gary

Head to the Daily Blob on Windows Live For more of what happens online

With all the lastest places, searching has never been easier. Look now! Looking to move this spring?

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.52/2483 - Release Date: 11/05/09 19:52:00

garycookson2 · 6 November 2009 01:41

Hi Ken, happy to do it when i get home tonight (pedal power today), you've got a bit of a lean on yours, might be time to clean out the fridge...

My van is probably as heavy as a trakka. I had 47cm from the centre of the wheel to the bottom lip of the rear wheel arch last week when we were measuring. Everyone else had 48cm.

You could always use some spacers to trim it up, syncro services sell them in different thicknesses.

They are obviously not legal in Germany, I wonder if there would be any issues here?

G

[2 0 / 2 1 Design]
28 Gwynne St
Richmond
Vic 3121
gary@twentytwentyone.net
www.twentytwentyone.net
Tel 3 9429 1868
Fax 3 9421 1110
Mob 0417 352782

On 06/11/2009, at 12:29 PM, Ken Garratt wrote:

Gary,

Interesting. I remember Hartmut saying about Muller & Muller stretching his springs.

Tell me please just for comparison/benchmar k, what are the heights of your van at each wheel arch ... measure off the floor to the wheel arch. Obvious variables would be my 15" wheels, it's a Trakka so heavy and would drop some more when fully loaded for a trip plus present tyre pressures. Forget about all that.
For mine as it stands now:
Front passenger 770mm; Front driver 760mm
Rear passenger 790mm; Rear driver 780mm

I suspect mine is low.

Thanks. Cheers.
Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
From: gary@twentytwentyon e.net
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 12:02:50 +1100
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] 12volt cooling

Not sure Ken, wouldn't surprise me with GW, their prices are a bit out of this world at the best of times. I also got costs on springs from syncro.org and he was bemoaning the postal costs. $460 for a set of springs and shocks!

Either way, not sure what to do now. I think i will have to try and find a more local solution like stretching. It is only the fronts that are a bit soft, the rears are fine. At least i can get the OME shocks here even if i have to wait.

[2 0 / 2 1 Design]
28 Gwynne St
Richmond
Vic 3121
gary@twentytwentyon e.net
www.twentytwentyone .net
Tel 3 9429 1868
Fax 3 9421 1110
Mob 0417 352782

On 06/11/2009, at 11:51 AM, Ken Garratt wrote:

Gary,
I thought it was GoWesty shipping charges was the issue ... not USPS.
They seem to just about double the USPS cost, I think they milk us overseas customers dry with euphemistically called "handling charges". I had a go at them once, suspect it fell on deaf ears though.

To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
From: gary@twentytwentyon e.net
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 11:35:31 +1100
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] 12volt cooling

If anyone is interested I have gone nuts and bought a 12v swamp cooler/
air con from the US

Specifically this one (Mk4):

http://www.swampy. net/mk3.html

It should arrive just in time for the DOVW with a bit of luck so if
anyone wants to try it out they will be most welcome.

Not cheap but if it keeps the kids cool on long journeys it will be
money well spent.

The US postal service has dramatically increased their prices
apparently so buying stuff from Gowesty etc is now really expensive.
$350 just in shipping for a set of 4 springs.

Cheers
Gary

Head to the Daily Blob on Windows Live For more of what happens online

With all the lastest places, searching has never been easier. Look now! Looking to move this spring?