Oil flow

1
Hi All,

I would like to know in which direction does the oil flow through our
2.1 Lit. engine - in relation to the oil filter and pressure sensor?
Any takers?

Cheers,
Theo
2
Theo, all cartrige oil filters flow in the same direction, From the outside holes, through the filter medium and out the large inner hole. The main oil gallery supplies the two presssure sensors, firstly the one under the w/pump and secondly the one on the left after passing number four cylinders lifters. Greg E

From: Theo Weiss <teows@melbpc.org.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2012 7:51 AM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Oil flow
 
Hi All,

I would like to know in which direction does the oil flow through our
2.1 Lit. engine - in relation to the oil filter and pressure sensor?
Any takers?

Cheers,
Theo

3
hi.
on all oil filers ...especially the spin-on kind like our vans use ..
the oil enters the outer side first ..
and comes out the center hole after being filtered.

this is so the dirt is captured on the larger outer diameter of the filter element.  All round filters, air and oil, work this way.

the OP relief valve ( I see you wrote 'sensor' ;)  ....that's rather in parrallel with the oil pump output ..
the basic concept is there is   a piston with a spring behind it ..
if pressure gets high enough ..piston displaces a little ...allowing oil to dump straight back to the sump.
before the oil filer.
( without an OP relief vavle ..
cold oil pressure can easily get to 200 or more psi ..enough to blow right past the oil filter rubber seal ) .

As for the oil pressure switches ..
there are two on a 2.1 waterboxer.
look at page 17.7 of Bentley ..that shows a 2.1 engine and the two oil pressure switches..
but they don't tell you much really.

Many shop manuals show a rough line drawing of how the oil passages and the bearings are related ..
Bentley doesn't.
I used to think the high rpm sensing OP switch by the crankshaft pulley had to be in that location ..
but a super excellent engine rebuilder I know of ( and I don't give a high grade ever almost )
sells a little manifold
to put both oil pressure swtiches connected to the OP switch hole under the left head ..
so eveidently both high and low rpm oil pressure sensing can be done off that one port ..
( which is the only port a  1.9 wbxr engine has. ). 

it's fun to have an oil pressure guage on a waterboxer engine.
For one with a lot of miles ..say 180K miles
and say 15W40 oil..
I find oil pressure varies between about 60 psi at the high ..( cold at say 2,500 rpm )
and 6 psi at the low ..like at hot idle. .

what fun !
Scott
www.turbovans.com




On 11/13/2012 12:51 PM, Theo Weiss wrote:
 

Hi All,

I would like to know in which direction does the oil flow through our
2.1 Lit. engine - in relation to the oil filter and pressure sensor?
Any takers?

Cheers,
Theo


4
Hey Greg, this post reminded me that we haven't had a report on your new big displacement wbx. Got it all sorted & tuned? Got the vacuum switch happening & how's the performance? Eddie.

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, greg esposito <gregespo73@...> wrote:
>
> Theo, all cartrige oil filters flow in the same direction, From the outside holes, through the filter medium and out the large inner hole. The main oil gallery supplies the two presssure sensors, firstly the one under the w/pump and secondly the one on the left after passing number four cylinders lifters. Greg E
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Theo Weiss <teows@...>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2012 7:51 AM
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Oil flow
>
>
> Â
>
> Hi All,
>
> I would like to know in which direction does the oil flow through our
> 2.1 Lit. engine - in relation to the oil filter and pressure sensor?
> Any takers?
>
> Cheers,
> Theo
>
5
Greg, Scott,

Thanks for you explanation. What I should have asked is this. In which direction does the oil flow after the oil pump picks it up through the strainer?

Cheers,
Theo



At 09:13 AM 14/11/2012, you wrote:
 

Theo, all cartrige oil filters flow in the same direction, From the outside holes, through the filter medium and out the large inner hole. The main oil gallery supplies the two presssure sensors, firstly the one under the w/pump and secondly the one on the left after passing number four cylinders lifters. Greg E

From: Theo Weiss <teows@melbpc.org.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2012 7:51 AM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Oil flow
 
Hi All,

I would like to know in which direction does the oil flow through our
2.1 Lit. engine - in relation to the oil filter and pressure sensor?
Any takers?

Cheers,
Theo


6
Hey Eddie, have been meaning to do a bit of a slide show of the process. I am running it in at the moment. It pulls well but am far from getting the fuel injection to work to right. I am running the vac switch, works good. Here's a couple of pics in the mean time. See ya at the show. Greg E

From: eddie <bergodaz@ozemail.com.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2012 9:27 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Oil flow
 
Hey Greg, this post reminded me that we haven't had a report on your new big displacement wbx. Got it all sorted & tuned? Got the vacuum switch happening & how's the performance? Eddie.

--- In mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com, greg esposito <gregespo73@...> wrote:
>
> Theo, all cartrige oil filters flow in the same direction, From the outside holes, through the filter medium and out the large inner hole. The main oil gallery supplies the two presssure sensors, firstly the one under the w/pump and secondly the one on the left after passing number four cylinders lifters. Greg E
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Theo Weiss <teows@...>
> To: mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2012 7:51 AM
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Oil flow
>
>
>  
>
> Hi All,
>
> I would like to know in which direction does the oil flow through our
> 2.1 Lit. engine - in relation to the oil filter and pressure sensor?
> Any takers?
>
> Cheers,
> Theo
>

 
7
Do you have a specific problem Theo?

From: Theo Weiss <teows@melbpc.org.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2012 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Oil flow
 
Greg, Scott,

Thanks for you explanation. What I should have asked is this. In which direction does the oil flow after the oil pump picks it up through the strainer?

Cheers,
Theo



At 09:13 AM 14/11/2012, you wrote:
 

Theo, all cartrige oil filters flow in the same direction, From the outside holes, through the filter medium and out the large inner hole. The main oil gallery supplies the two presssure sensors, firstly the one under the w/pump and secondly the one on the left after passing number four cylinders lifters. Greg E

From: Theo Weiss <teows@melbpc.org.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2012 7:51 AM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Oil flow
 
Hi All,

I would like to know in which direction does the oil flow through our
2.1 Lit. engine - in relation to the oil filter and pressure sensor?
Any takers?

Cheers,
Theo

8
Greg,
No problem, I just want to find the right entry point for the Engine Pre Lube Kit.
Cheers,
Theo

At 10:18 PM 14/11/2012, you wrote:
 

Do you have a specific problem Theo?

From: Theo Weiss <teows@melbpc.org.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2012 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Oil flow
 
Greg, Scott,

Thanks for you explanation. What I should have asked is this. In which direction does the oil flow after the oil pump picks it up through the strainer?

Cheers,
Theo



At 09:13 AM 14/11/2012, you wrote:
 

Theo, all cartrige oil filters flow in the same direction, From the outside holes, through the filter medium and out the large inner hole. The main oil gallery supplies the two presssure sensors, firstly the one under the w/pump and secondly the one on the left after passing number four cylinders lifters. Greg E

From: Theo Weiss <teows@melbpc.org.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2012 7:51 AM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Oil flow
 
Hi All,

I would like to know in which direction does the oil flow through our
2.1 Lit. engine - in relation to the oil filter and pressure sensor?
Any takers?

Cheers,
Theo

9
I would plumb a line in at the left case oil pressure switch hole to a manifold high in the engine compartment and have your switches and pre lube go in there. Then if you want an oil temp gauge use the hole near the filter. Greg E

From: Theo Weiss <teows@melbpc.org.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 15 November 2012 7:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Oil flow
 
Greg, No problem, I just want to find the right entry point for the Engine Pre Lube Kit. Cheers, Theo At 10:18 PM 14/11/2012, you wrote:
 

Do you have a specific problem Theo?

From: Theo Weiss <teows@melbpc.org.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2012 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Oil flow
 
Greg, Scott,

Thanks for you explanation. What I should have asked is this. In which direction does the oil flow after the oil pump picks it up through the strainer?

Cheers,
Theo



At 09:13 AM 14/11/2012, you wrote:
 

Theo, all cartrige oil filters flow in the same direction, From the outside holes, through the filter medium and out the large inner hole. The main oil gallery supplies the two presssure sensors, firstly the one under the w/pump and secondly the one on the left after passing number four cylinders lifters. Greg E

From: Theo Weiss <teows@melbpc.org.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2012 7:51 AM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Oil flow
 
Hi All,

I would like to know in which direction does the oil flow through our
2.1 Lit. engine - in relation to the oil filter and pressure sensor?
Any takers?

Cheers,
Theo
10
re :
entry point for the Engine Pre Lube Kit.

Thanks for that clarification. Now we're getting somewhere.

the 'usual deal' is to use an adapter between the engine block and spin-on oil filter.
That gives you access to the right spot in the oil circuit with taping into the block anywhere.

If you've ever heard of a ...can't remember the ...right .
Accusump...
it's an oil pressure acumulator system ...it's designed to feed back-up oil under stored pressure ( via diaprham  and spring in a large cylinder ) to the oil system if there is oil pressure loss..
and it can be used as a pre-lube device too...using the stored oil under pressure from the last time the engine ran.

The way that system interfaces with the engine is via an adapter plate .sometimes called a sandwich plate..
betwixt engine block and oil filter.

that would be the nicest easiest way.  Such adapters are pretty common ..often used for external oil cooler hose connections.

That Accusump thing btw...
they come in two sizes ...2 qt and 3 qt I think ..this was on a Subaru SVX engine, that I did the installation on, in an 87 Syncro T3 van.
Since we had a shortened oil pan ..and they guy just seemed to love to spend money on his rig.

What I did not like about it though ...I could not figure out or find out how it could mind oil level in the sump.
I talked to the company a lot ..and they could not give me a good answer about how it knew how much oil to put in.
 It only sensed oil pressure ..and nothing about oil level in the sump.  We finally didn't keep it on there.

It made a nice pre-lube device though .
Imagine ..turn on the key ....energize your prelube device, watch OP come up on your OP gauge ..then start the engine.  Nice.

In the real world though ....cars get by just fine without such systems,

scott
www.turbovans.com

11

This subject has been raised before.  The engine does not have to fire before the oil pump delivers pressure.  The oil pump delivers pressure from the moment that you engage the starter.  By the time that the engine fires, there is pressure in the galleries and oil is being delivered to the points of lubrication.  When the engine fires, it does not instantly go to several thousand RPM.  At idle speed, there is more than ample lubrication to service the very low engine loads.  This is one of those things that look good on paper until you sit down and work out what is actually happening on start-up.

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Theo Weiss
Sent: 15 November 2012 07:49
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Oil flow

 

 

Greg,
No problem, I just want to find the right entry point for the Engine Pre Lube Kit.
Cheers,
Theo

At 10:18 PM 14/11/2012, you wrote:

 

Do you have a specific problem Theo?

From: Theo Weiss <teows@melbpc.org.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2012 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Oil flow
 
Greg, Scott,

Thanks for you explanation. What I should have asked is this. In which direction does the oil flow after the oil pump picks it up through the strainer?

Cheers,
Theo



At 09:13 AM 14/11/2012, you wrote:

 

Theo, all cartrige oil filters flow in the same direction, From the outside holes, through the filter medium and out the large inner hole. The main oil gallery supplies the two presssure sensors, firstly the one under the w/pump and secondly the one on the left after passing number four cylinders lifters. Greg E

From: Theo Weiss <teows@melbpc.org.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2012 7:51 AM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Oil flow
 
Hi All,

I would like to know in which direction does the oil flow through our
2.1 Lit. engine - in relation to the oil filter and pressure sensor?
Any takers?

Cheers,
Theo

 

12
I agree with you Les, I don't see the need for one on a wbx. Sounds like Theo has already purchased and is ready to install. Scott, I think Theo has already fitted an aux cooler with a sandwich plate, he could "T" into that I suppose. Greg

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Les Harris" <leslieharris@...> wrote:
>
> This subject has been raised before. The engine does not have to fire
> before the oil pump delivers pressure. The oil pump delivers pressure from
> the moment that you engage the starter. By the time that the engine fires,
> there is pressure in the galleries and oil is being delivered to the points
> of lubrication. When the engine fires, it does not instantly go to several
> thousand RPM. At idle speed, there is more than ample lubrication to
> service the very low engine loads. This is one of those things that look
> good on paper until you sit down and work out what is actually happening on
> start-up.
>
> Les
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Theo Weiss
> Sent: 15 November 2012 07:49
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Oil flow
>
>
>
>
>
> Greg,
> No problem, I just want to find the right entry point for the Engine Pre
> Lube Kit.
> Cheers,
> Theo
>
> At 10:18 PM 14/11/2012, you wrote:
>
>
>
> Do you have a specific problem Theo?
>
> From: Theo Weiss <teows@...>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2012 9:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Oil flow
>
> Greg, Scott,
>
> Thanks for you explanation. What I should have asked is this. In which
> direction does the oil flow after the oil pump picks it up through the
> strainer?
>
> Cheers,
> Theo
>
>
>
> At 09:13 AM 14/11/2012, you wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Theo, all cartrige oil filters flow in the same direction, From the outside
> holes, through the filter medium and out the large inner hole. The main oil
> gallery supplies the two presssure sensors, firstly the one under the w/pump
> and secondly the one on the left after passing number four cylinders
> lifters. Greg E
>
> From: Theo Weiss <teows@...>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2012 7:51 AM
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Oil flow
>
> Hi All,
>
> I would like to know in which direction does the oil flow through our
> 2.1 Lit. engine - in relation to the oil filter and pressure sensor?
> Any takers?
>
> Cheers,
> Theo
>
13

If there was a measurable benefit from such a system, it is a reasonable assumption that they would be designed into, at the very least, such engines as Porsche and Ferrari.

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gregespo73
Sent: 15 November 2012 10:08
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Oil flow

I agree with you Les, I don't see the need for one on a wbx. Sounds like Theo has already purchased and is ready to install. Scott, I think Theo has already fitted an aux cooler with a sandwich plate, he could "T" into that I suppose. Greg


14
Sounds good ..
on an existing sandwhich plate.

I can't quite agree that there is oil pressure before there is 'engine running.'
I have an 87 T3 with a 90 Syncro 2.1 wbxr engine ..
 it fires off instantly ( to a medium rpm ...1,200 maybe ).
Miles are high on that engine. If it's been sitting a month or so ..
there is definitely some rod bearing/large oil clearance noise for a very short period...
 It sure  is running before everything is filled with oil in the bearings .

on good engines, in the normal world ...it works out that they do all right overall without a pre-lube feature ..
and having one could only help ...like rod bearing wise.

scott


On 11/14/2012 3:08 PM, gregespo73 wrote:
 

I agree with you Les, I don't see the need for one on a wbx. Sounds like Theo has already purchased and is ready to install. Scott, I think Theo has already fitted an aux cooler with a sandwich plate, he could "T" into that I suppose. Greg

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Les Harris" <leslieharris@...> wrote:
>
> This subject has been raised before. The engine does not have to fire
> before the oil pump delivers pressure. The oil pump delivers pressure from
> the moment that you engage the starter. By the time that the engine fires,
> there is pressure in the galleries and oil is being delivered to the points
> of lubrication. When the engine fires, it does not instantly go to several
> thousand RPM. At idle speed, there is more than ample lubrication to
> service the very low engine loads. This is one of those things that look
> good on paper until you sit down and work out what is actually happening on
> start-up.
>
> Les
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Theo Weiss
> Sent: 15 November 2012 07:49
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Oil flow
>
>
>
>
>
> Greg,
> No problem, I just want to find the right entry point for the Engine Pre
> Lube Kit.
> Cheers,
> Theo
>
> At 10:18 PM 14/11/2012, you wrote:
>
>
>
> Do you have a specific problem Theo?
>
> From: Theo Weiss <teows@...>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2012 9:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Oil flow
>
> Greg, Scott,
>
> Thanks for you explanation. What I should have asked is this. In which
> direction does the oil flow after the oil pump picks it up through the
> strainer?
>
> Cheers,
> Theo
>
>
>
> At 09:13 AM 14/11/2012, you wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Theo, all cartrige oil filters flow in the same direction, From the outside
> holes, through the filter medium and out the large inner hole. The main oil
> gallery supplies the two presssure sensors, firstly the one under the w/pump
> and secondly the one on the left after passing number four cylinders
> lifters. Greg E
>
> From: Theo Weiss <teows@...>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2012 7:51 AM
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Oil flow
>
> Hi All,
>
> I would like to know in which direction does the oil flow through our
> 2.1 Lit. engine - in relation to the oil filter and pressure sensor?
> Any takers?
>
> Cheers,
> Theo
>


15
Greg, Les & Scott,

Thanks again for your comments. I didn't mean to beat around the bush.I was just hoping I may get an engine oil passages sketch.
Ok, I may be going overboard here. All I want is to keep my engine running for many years to come. Especially now, that it is a 2.4L
Yes, I have sandwich plate fitted for oil cooler, temperature & pressure gauge.
My engine starts straight away it doesn't go brum,brum,brum...and I noticed that it takes a few second for pressure to build up.
So the kit sounds a good idea.

Cheers,
Theo


At 10:08 AM 15/11/2012, you wrote:
 

I agree with you Les, I don't see the need for one on a wbx. Sounds like Theo has already purchased and is ready to install. Scott, I think Theo has already fitted an aux cooler with a sandwich plate, he could "T" into that I suppose. Greg

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Les Harris" <leslieharris@...> wrote:
>
> This subject has been raised before. The engine does not have to fire
> before the oil pump delivers pressure. The oil pump delivers pressure from
> the moment that you engage the starter. By the time that the engine fires,
> there is pressure in the galleries and oil is being delivered to the points
> of lubrication. When the engine fires, it does not instantly go to several
> thousand RPM. At idle speed, there is more than ample lubrication to
> service the very low engine loads. This is one of those things that look
> good on paper until you sit down and work out what is actually happening on
> start-up.
>
> Les
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [ mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Theo Weiss
> Sent: 15 November 2012 07:49
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Oil flow
>
>
>
>
>
> Greg,
> No problem, I just want to find the right entry point for the Engine Pre
> Lube Kit.
> Cheers,
> Theo
>
> At 10:18 PM 14/11/2012, you wrote:
>
>
>
> Do you have a specific problem Theo?
>
> From: Theo Weiss <teows@...>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2012 9:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Oil flow
>
> Greg, Scott,
>
> Thanks for you explanation. What I should have asked is this. In which
> direction does the oil flow after the oil pump picks it up through the
> strainer?
>
> Cheers,
> Theo
>
>
>
> At 09:13 AM 14/11/2012, you wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Theo, all cartrige oil filters flow in the same direction, From the outside
> holes, through the filter medium and out the large inner hole. The main oil
> gallery supplies the two presssure sensors, firstly the one under the w/pump
> and secondly the one on the left after passing number four cylinders
> lifters. Greg E
>
> From: Theo Weiss <teows@...>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2012 7:51 AM
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Oil flow
>
> Hi All,
>
> I would like to know in which direction does the oil flow through our
> 2.1 Lit. engine - in relation to the oil filter and pressure sensor?
> Any takers?
>
> Cheers,
> Theo
>