Radiator lines

1
I found this custom beading tool you can purchase to forge your own radiator cooling tube end beads to securely attach the rubber water hose to rigid tubing, they say it's for aluminium but I wonder if you could use it for mild steel? has any body used this?
http://www.jegs.com/p/Earls/Earls-EZ-Beader/1140092/10002/-1
Ralph
2
Great find Ralf. I am also intending to make my own coolant pipes. Is there any reason you won't use aluminium. I know it is not as durable as steel but would have to be as robust as the originals. Greg E

From: Ralph <rrmoss@xtra.co.nz>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 5 July 2011 7:58 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Radiator lines

 
I found this custom beading tool you can purchase to forge your own radiator cooling tube end beads to securely attach the rubber water hose to rigid tubing, they say it's for aluminium but I wonder if you could use it for mild steel? has any body used this?
http://www.jegs.com/p/Earls/Earls-EZ-Beader/1140092/10002/-1
Ralph



3
You're an absolute ripper Ralph - I've been looking for something like this for years.

  Does anyone in the group have any knowledge of aluminium coolant pipe? We know it's used in racing, but is it durable over many years? Can you bend it in a muffler-shop pipe bender? Where do you get it?

  I was planning to use stainless steel and run a bead of s.s. weld or silver solder near the end to stop the hose clamp slipping off.

  Greg at the muffler/radiator shop reckons that just three spots of weld or solder on each end would do the job.

  Any ideas about which would be the better choice?
            
                                                                                Roger Beetle

4
What is the thickness that it can shape?



> Gullyraker@aol.com wrote:
>
> You're an absolute ripper Ralph - I've been looking for something like
> this
> for years.
>
> Does anyone in the group have any knowledge of aluminium coolant pipe?
> We
> know it's used in racing, but is it durable over many years? Can you
> bend
> it in a muffler-shop pipe bender? Where do you get it?
>
> I was planning to use stainless steel and run a bead of s.s. weld or
> silver solder near the end to stop the hose clamp slipping off.
>
> Greg at the muffler/radiator shop reckons that just three spots of
> weld
> or solder on each end would do the job.
>
> Any ideas about which would be the better choice?
>
>
>
> Roger Beetle
5
It's not the right material for the application.
there are different types and alloys of aluminum of course..
but it's not a race car and weight is not a factor for something like this in a sycnro.
 
why would one not buy the stainless pipes that already exists, that are built specifically  for syncro's ..
and come ready to bolt in ??
 
I suggest the two part ones joined with silicone hose in the middle.
a set runs $ 400 US or under.
 
it's already been figured out ..
you just buy the stainless pipes and install 'em.
 
Aluminum is a terrible material for cooling systems...or ones that are neglected as many typically are.
I can show you T3 syncro aluminum thermostat housings corroded to unrecognizable .
 
in a coolant pipe..in aluminum ...
the wall thickness that would be needed, the cost of the material and it's propensity to corrode either internally or externally  makes it  the wrong material for the application.
you won't find any long aluminum coolant pipes on cars..
except perhaps Ferrari's maybe.
 you want galvanized steel,
or stainless pipe.
and kits are ready to buy and bolt in now.
Scott
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Radiator lines

 

You're an absolute ripper Ralph - I've been looking for something like this for years.

  Does anyone in the group have any knowledge of aluminium coolant pipe? We know it's used in racing, but is it durable over many years? Can you bend it in a muffler-shop pipe bender? Where do you get it?

  I was planning to use stainless steel and run a bead of s.s. weld or silver solder near the end to stop the hose clamp slipping off.

  Greg at the muffler/radiator shop reckons that just three spots of weld or solder on each end would do the job.

  Any ideas about which would be the better choice?
            
                                                                                Roger Beetle

6
http://www.justkampersaustralia.com/shop/water-pipe-feed-return-stainless-steel-j15345.html



> Scott Daniel - Turbovans <ScottDaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
>
> It's not the right material for the application.
> there are different types and alloys of aluminum of course..
> but it's not a race car and weight is not a factor for something like
> this in a sycnro.
>
> why would one not buy the stainless pipes that already exists, that are
> built specifically for syncro's ..
> and come ready to bolt in ??
>
> I suggest the two part ones joined with silicone hose in the middle.
> a set runs $ 400 US or under.
>
> it's already been figured out ..
> you just buy the stainless pipes and install 'em.
>
> Aluminum is a terrible material for cooling systems...or ones that are
> neglected as many typically are.
> I can show you T3 syncro aluminum thermostat housings corroded to
> unrecognizable .
>
> in a coolant pipe..in aluminum ...
> the wall thickness that would be needed, the cost of the material and
> it's propensity to corrode either internally or externally makes it
> the wrong material for the application.
> you won't find any long aluminum coolant pipes on cars..
> except perhaps Ferrari's maybe.
> you want galvanized steel,
> or stainless pipe.
> and kits are ready to buy and bolt in now.
> Scott
> www.turbovans.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gullyraker@aol.com
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 5:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Radiator lines
>
>
>
> You're an absolute ripper Ralph - I've been looking for something like
> this for years.
>
> Does anyone in the group have any knowledge of aluminium coolant
> pipe? We know it's used in racing, but is it durable over many years?
> Can you bend it in a muffler-shop pipe bender? Where do you get it?
>
> I was planning to use stainless steel and run a bead of s.s. weld or
> silver solder near the end to stop the hose clamp slipping off.
>
> Greg at the muffler/radiator shop reckons that just three spots of
> weld or solder on each end would do the job.
>
> Any ideas about which would be the better choice?
>
>
> Roger Beetle
>
>
>
>
7
And the syncro ones are a little more expensive.

From: "plander@optusnet.com.au" <plander@optusnet.com.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 6 July 2011 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Radiator lines

 
http://www.justkampersaustralia.com/shop/water-pipe-feed-return-stainless-steel-j15345.html

> Scott Daniel - Turbovans <ScottDaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
>
> It's not the right material for the application.
> there are different types and alloys of aluminum of course..
> but it's not a race car and weight is not a factor for something like
> this in a sycnro.
>
> why would one not buy the stainless pipes that already exists, that are
> built specifically for syncro's ..
> and come ready to bolt in ??
>
> I suggest the two part ones joined with silicone hose in the middle.
> a set runs $ 400 US or under.
>
> it's already been figured out ..
> you just buy the stainless pipes and install 'em.
>
> Aluminum is a terrible material for cooling systems...or ones that are
> neglected as many typically are.
> I can show you T3 syncro aluminum thermostat housings corroded to
> unrecognizable .
>
> in a coolant pipe..in aluminum ...
> the wall thickness that would be needed, the cost of the material and
> it's propensity to corrode either internally or externally makes it
> the wrong material for the application.
> you won't find any long aluminum coolant pipes on cars..
> except perhaps Ferrari's maybe.
> you want galvanized steel,
> or stainless pipe.
> and kits are ready to buy and bolt in now.
> Scott
> www.turbovans.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gullyraker@aol.com
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 5:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Radiator lines
>
>
>
> You're an absolute ripper Ralph - I've been looking for something like
> this for years.
>
> Does anyone in the group have any knowledge of aluminium coolant
> pipe? We know it's used in racing, but is it durable over many years?
> Can you bend it in a muffler-shop pipe bender? Where do you get it?
>
> I was planning to use stainless steel and run a bead of s.s. weld or
> silver solder near the end to stop the hose clamp slipping off.
>
> Greg at the muffler/radiator shop reckons that just three spots of
> weld or solder on each end would do the job.
>
> Any ideas about which would be the better choice?
>
>
> Roger Beetle
>
>
>
>


8
.9mm to 1.6mm, admittedly a bit thin for the application. Greg E

From: "plander@optusnet.com.au" <plander@optusnet.com.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 6 July 2011 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Radiator lines

 
What is the thickness that it can shape?

> Gullyraker@aol.com wrote:
>
> You're an absolute ripper Ralph - I've been looking for something like
> this
> for years.
>
> Does anyone in the group have any knowledge of aluminium coolant pipe?
> We
> know it's used in racing, but is it durable over many years? Can you
> bend
> it in a muffler-shop pipe bender? Where do you get it?
>
> I was planning to use stainless steel and run a bead of s.s. weld or
> silver solder near the end to stop the hose clamp slipping off.
>
> Greg at the muffler/radiator shop reckons that just three spots of
> weld
> or solder on each end would do the job.
>
> Any ideas about which would be the better choice?
>
>
>
> Roger Beetle


9

pretty close to what i was charged for plastic ones from a vehicle repairer
 
 
 
bob
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Radiator lines

 

And the syncro ones are a little more expensive.

From: "plander@optusnet.com.au" <plander@optusnet.com.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 6 July 2011 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Radiator lines

 
http://www.justkampersaustralia.com/shop/water-pipe-feed-return-stainless-steel-j15345.html

> Scott Daniel - Turbovans <ScottDaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
>
> It's not the right material for the application.
> there are different types and alloys of aluminum of course..
> but it's not a race car and weight is not a factor for something like
> this in a sycnro.
>
> why would one not buy the stainless pipes that already exists, that are
> built specifically for syncro's ..
> and come ready to bolt in ??
>
> I suggest the two part ones joined with silicone hose in the middle.
> a set runs $ 400 US or under.
>
> it's already been figured out ..
> you just buy the stainless pipes and install 'em.
>
> Aluminum is a terrible material for cooling systems...or ones that are
> neglected as many typically are.
> I can show you T3 syncro aluminum thermostat housings corroded to
> unrecognizable .
>
> in a coolant pipe..in aluminum ...
> the wall thickness that would be needed, the cost of the material and
> it's propensity to corrode either internally or externally makes it
> the wrong material for the application.
> you won't find any long aluminum coolant pipes on cars..
> except perhaps Ferrari's maybe.
> you want galvanized steel,
> or stainless pipe.
> and kits are ready to buy and bolt in now.
> Scott
> www.turbovans.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gullyraker@aol.com
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 5:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Radiator lines
>
>
>
> You're an absolute ripper Ralph - I've been looking for something like
> this for years.
>
> Does anyone in the group have any knowledge of aluminium coolant
> pipe? We know it's used in racing, but is it durable over many years?
> Can you bend it in a muffler-shop pipe bender? Where do you get it?
>
> I was planning to use stainless steel and run a bead of s.s. weld or
> silver solder near the end to stop the hose clamp slipping off.
>
> Greg at the muffler/radiator shop reckons that just three spots of
> weld or solder on each end would do the job.
>
> Any ideas about which would be the better choice?
>
>
> Roger Beetle
>
>
>
>


10
  I guess it depends on the grade of aluminium - which was the question that I'm asking - what is the right grade to look for?

  Some of it must be alright if they make radiator cores, intercoolers, water pump bodies and VW crankcases and cylinder heads out of it.

  I think the issue with corroded thermostat housings is because they spend most of their life stewing in road crud - especially in countries where salt is applied to icy roads.

  $400 seems like a lot of money for a couple of pipes - and don't forget the freight!

  It seems to me that if you have access to a pipe bender it should be possible to make your own for less, hopefully of better quality.

  What do you reckon?
                                     Roger Beetle.


11
No longer available
                               - Roger Beetle

12
> $400 seems like a lot of money for a couple of pipes - and don't
> forget the freight!
>

Free frieght from JKA
13
yes,
very aware that cylinder heads are cast aluminum and so on,
and that coolant flows through them.
the primary reason for using cast aluminum in major engine parts is weight saving.
The cost/benefit ratio is reasonable favorable.
 
if you are building an engine for sheer durability .say, like a 1975 Mercedes 240 D diesel..
it's a cast iron head sitting on 18 I think, cylinder head studs.
Massively overbuilt ..and last nearly forever.
 
but piping ..
I can't even think of aluminum pipe really. It's too soft a material.
There is nothing wrong with steel pipes.
Early T3 vans up until mid 85 have steel main coolant pipes.
I think they are galvanized and painted black.
the can wear out from corrosion ..but that's more due to neglect.
 
I am sure the main reason they are plastic starting in mid 85 and on all syncro's is to keep the cost down in production.
plastic is cheap in mass production.
The work all right too ..though the metal inserts in the ends slip out of position.
They like to do it at the forward end  ( both ends actually )

i was just removing the steering rack from an 86 T3 in a junkyard ..
I should take a picture of where the hoses split and ripped right at the forword ends of the plastic coolant pipes. 
likely someone didn't catch it overheating ...and some shop said $ 6,000 US or so for a new engine, so they dumped the van.
Nice one too.   I've seen it around. No rust, straight body ..
a real shame to see it being ripped apart in a junkyard.
I probably could have saved it completly with a good used engine with new head gaskets..
like for no more than 1,500 out of pocket expesnses.    Nice GLmnaul trans  deluxe model too. Real shame.
 
anyway ..
sure, have an exhasut bender guy make some up if your goal is new metal pipes, and not the plastic original ones, and not long marine hoses, and you don't want to spring the 400 to 500 US for the stainless ones.
but not aluminum pipe..
I can't even think of any Ive seen anywhere.
what you want is durability , not light weight.
do whatever you want, but  it's just not the right material for the application.
I have been studying how cars are built since about 1964.
 
one of my T3 van  conversion sayings..
'Do what the manufacturers do."
or build it like they would.  Generally they are looking for durability at reasonable cost. Just what we want.
Aluminum does't fit that. Even if you get it free. Not in pipe.
 
scott
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 11:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Radiator lines

 

  I guess it depends on the grade of aluminium - which was the question that I'm asking - what is the right grade to look for?

  Some of it must be alright if they make radiator cores, intercoolers, water pump bodies and VW crankcases and cylinder heads out of it.

  I think the issue with corroded thermostat housings is because they spend most of their life stewing in road crud - especially in countries where salt is applied to icy roads.

  $400 seems like a lot of money for a couple of pipes - and don't forget the freight!

  It seems to me that if you have access to a pipe bender it should be possible to make your own for less, hopefully of better quality.

  What do you reckon?
                                     Roger Beetle.