re: Original circa 1990 aftermarket air conditioning system ... upgradeable?

21

Gday Yurik,

It has never occurred to me I could R&R the a/c component parts myself, especially after reading through the VASA website at http://www.vasa.org.au/content/hotair/index.php and reading some of their relevant online newsletter items on this subject, warning members against taking short cuts etc.

For example, they warned against installing new components into an old system, meaning that when the evacuation processes are carried out, contaminants from old components often shift to new components and contaminate them as well, which apparently causes even more problems. However, you seem not to have had issues such as this in your case.

Also, they did talk about the importance that prior to installation into the system, to take the time to completely remove the manufacturers temporary fluids from the compressor first.

Yurik, I take it that as my a/c system has managed to de-gas itself, opening up the system to replace components is no longer problematic i.e., there is now no refrigerant to recover?

So as you can see, I assumed this was a job only for the pros.  But I am encouraged by what you are suggesting and I should look into it more closely and perhaps add this project to my 2009 todo list. I suspect quite a few other Prestige Auto Air system users may also see the possibilities this presents.

I see there is a local Enzed service centre here so using their skilled services for the new o ring hose connectors is a very good solution. Goto: http://www.enzed.com.au/

Just in case someone has experience concerning a brand of compressor called Zexel, I would be interested to here positive and negative feedback here please.

Thanks again Yurik. Cheers. 

Ken


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Yurik Orlowsky" <yuriko@...> wrote:
>
> Ken,
>
>
>
> If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the existing
> bracket
>
> then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade. The remaining things
> are to get
>
> new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX valve and
> receiver-drier.
>
> I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring connectors.
> Any decrease
>
> of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be made up by
> using longer Al tails
>
> on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the components
> in the system are re-used
>
> ie condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.
>
>
>
> I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and ask them
> to do a re-gas.
>
> Making sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and
> contaminants. Having both
>
> a pressure test- using Nitrogen gas and a vacuum leak down test. Making
> sure they use extra oil
>
> because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably inject a UV
> sensitive dye with the
>
> R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to return to
> them after approx
>
> 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.
>
>
>
> My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one would expect a
> slow reduction of
>
> efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of the gas
> through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks.
>
>
>
> For the moment I am keeping cool.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Yurik
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken
> Sent: Friday, 21 November 2008 9:41 AM
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Original circa 1990 aftermarket air
> conditioning system ... upgradeable?
>
>
>
>
> Gday Yurik,
>
> Thanks a lot for this, so far you are the only one who has experienced
> the sort of upgrade I had in mind and hopefully within a reasonable
> budget.
>
> Balance what you have done with the view of the accredited a/c installer
> I spoke to who essentially said an 18 year old system in this
> non-standard vehicle would be so affected by deterioration, corrosion,
> poor sealing etc in so many components including the long hoses,
> realistically no one in the industry with typical high labour costs and
> overheads would touch it. Only a complete new system would attract a
> warranty. In his view, the removal and replacement with a complete new
> system would be prohibitively expensive. He did say though to try and
> find someone with lower overheads such as the mobile a/c accredited
> installers, even then it would probably have to be treated as a "labour
> of love".
>
> Ok so please give me your thoughts on the following ok ....
>
> I believe I can get a new modern compressor with double pulley that
> bolts straight on to the existing bracket. The compressor pulley will
> line up correctly with the drive output pulley.
>
> I expect the o ring connectors on the new compressor head will be set
> up/located differently to the existing flair connectors on the old
> compressor head. So do you think that cutting off the hose flair
> fittings and replacing them with the newer o ring fittings, the hose
> will still be long enough to attach to the new compressor head? Worst
> comes to the worst, I believe there are adaptors available.
>
> The receiver-drier as a matter of course should be replaced.
>
> As you suggest, replace the X.T. valve.
>
> So from what you remember, you re-used the old front condenser (in front
> of the radiator), the in-dash evaporator, the thermostat and pressure
> switch as well as the 2 very long rubber refrigerant hoses. The whole
> system was evacuated of contaminants then regassed with R134A
> refrigerant, tested for leaks and it passed ok?
>
> Are you aware of any other issues and does the a/c system still hold
> it's gas ok ... that is, it's still quite cold even now when you use it,
> some 5 years later?
>
> Do you run it periodically to keep the seals moist and do you have it
> serviced annually or not?
>
> Thanks Yurik, I appreciate your help and guidance.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com> , "Yurik Orlowsky"
> yuriko@ wrote:
> >
> > Ken
> >
> > My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it to be
> > ineffective. At one point when a re-gas was needed
> >
> > I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling
> significantly.
> > Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the
> >
> > new engine(2003) came with a compressor which was retro fitted to the
> > existing system and this combination produced
> >
> > very crisp cold air - a huge improvement. I have come to the
> conclusion
> > that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern
> >
> > new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have. One of my
> > friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled
> >
> > VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac.
> >
> > With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be modified
> and new
> > hose connectors installed to suit the compressor
> >
> > used. All other components remain.
> >
> >
> >
> > Yurik
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Ken
> > Sent: Thursday, 20 November 2008 3:36 PM
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] re: Original circa 1990 aftermarket air
> > conditioning system ... upgradeable?
> >
> >
> >
> > Gday ALL,
> >
> > Many syncros, in particular Trakka campers, had an aftermarket a/c
> > system made by Prestige Auto Air in Sydney or else some other a/c
> > business. My observations conclude that most if not all of these old
> > systems no longer work satisfactorily, some people even resort to a
> > re-gas just prior to their annual trip, hoping it lasts the distance.
> >
> > Has anyone had real success simply upgrading key components of the
> > original a/c system such, that it now works well and no longer leaks
> > refrigerant?
> >
> > By that I mean for example, replacing the compressor, receiver/drier,
> > perhaps the thermostat, pressure switch, T.X. valve, gas seals etc.
> > Also, possibly replaced the front condenser (in front of radiator)
> > and/or the evaporator (mounted in/on dash in front of passenger seat.
> >
> > If anyone can say it has been done successfully, did it also include
> > replacing the 2 large rubber refrigerant hoses that link the
> > compressor on the motor and the receiver drier behind the front
> > passenger side headlight? Perhaps they were replaced with metal lines.
> >
> > I'm interested at this early stage to at least try and find out if it
> > is feasible in terms of being practical and economical. I've spoken
> > to an accredited installer today and he didn't paint a rosy picture.
> >
> > Failing all else, I may remove the a/c components to lighten the load.
> >
> > Any helpful feedback would be much appreciated. TIA.
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> > Ken
> >
>

22
Ken,
Are Enzed qualified/licenced to do a/c hoses?

If I were you, I would go to a few automotive a/c specialists and see what they say. Don't just go to one (as he may be an empire builder) but get a few opinions. Your a/c will never be any better than when it was new due to the ducting design, but I always found these adequate. If you want improvement get the Westy ducting as they work very well.

If it is regassed, it should not leak as this is a legal requirement.

Phill



> Ken <unclekenz@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Gday Yurik,
>
> It has never occurred to me I could R&R the a/c component parts myself,
> especially after reading through the VASA website at
> http://www.vasa.org.au/content/hotair/index.php
> <http://www.vasa.org.au/content/hotair/index.php> and reading some of
> their relevant online newsletter items on this subject, warning members
> against taking short cuts etc.
>
> For example, they warned against installing new components into an old
> system, meaning that when the evacuation processes are carried out,
> contaminants from old components often shift to new components and
> contaminate them as well, which apparently causes even more problems.
> However, you seem not to have had issues such as this in your case.
>
> Also, they did talk about the importance that prior to installation into
> the system, to take the time to completely remove the manufacturers
> temporary fluids from the compressor first.
>
> Yurik, I take it that as my a/c system has managed to de-gas itself,
> opening up the system to replace components is no longer problematic
> i.e., there is now no refrigerant to recover?
>
> So as you can see, I assumed this was a job only for the pros. But I am
> encouraged by what you are suggesting and I should look into it more
> closely and perhaps add this project to my 2009 todo list. I suspect
> quite a few other Prestige Auto Air system users may also see the
> possibilities this presents.
>
> I see there is a local Enzed service centre here so using their skilled
> services for the new o ring hose connectors is a very good solution.
> Goto: http://www.enzed.com.au/ <http://www.enzed.com.au/>
>
> Just in case someone has experience concerning a brand of compressor
> called Zexel, I would be interested to here positive and negative
> feedback here please.
>
> Thanks again Yurik. Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Yurik Orlowsky"
> <yuriko@...> wrote:
> >
> > Ken,
> >
> >
> >
> > If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the
> existing
> > bracket
> >
> > then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade. The remaining
> things
> > are to get
> >
> > new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX valve
> and
> > receiver-drier.
> >
> > I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring
> connectors.
> > Any decrease
> >
> > of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be made up
> by
> > using longer Al tails
> >
> > on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the
> components
> > in the system are re-used
> >
> > ie condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.
> >
> >
> >
> > I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and ask
> them
> > to do a re-gas.
> >
> > Making sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and
> > contaminants. Having both
> >
> > a pressure test- using Nitrogen gas and a vacuum leak down test.
> Making
> > sure they use extra oil
> >
> > because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably inject a
> UV
> > sensitive dye with the
> >
> > R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to return
> to
> > them after approx
> >
> > 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.
> >
> >
> >
> > My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one would
> expect a
> > slow reduction of
> >
> > efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of the
> gas
> > through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks.
> >
> >
> >
> > For the moment I am keeping cool.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Yurik
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken
> > Sent: Friday, 21 November 2008 9:41 AM
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Original circa 1990 aftermarket air
> > conditioning system ... upgradeable?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Gday Yurik,
> >
> > Thanks a lot for this, so far you are the only one who has experienced
> > the sort of upgrade I had in mind and hopefully within a reasonable
> > budget.
> >
> > Balance what you have done with the view of the accredited a/c
> installer
> > I spoke to who essentially said an 18 year old system in this
> > non-standard vehicle would be so affected by deterioration, corrosion,
> > poor sealing etc in so many components including the long hoses,
> > realistically no one in the industry with typical high labour costs
> and
> > overheads would touch it. Only a complete new system would attract a
> > warranty. In his view, the removal and replacement with a complete new
> > system would be prohibitively expensive. He did say though to try and
> > find someone with lower overheads such as the mobile a/c accredited
> > installers, even then it would probably have to be treated as a
> "labour
> > of love".
> >
> > Ok so please give me your thoughts on the following ok ....
> >
> > I believe I can get a new modern compressor with double pulley that
> > bolts straight on to the existing bracket. The compressor pulley will
> > line up correctly with the drive output pulley.
> >
> > I expect the o ring connectors on the new compressor head will be set
> > up/located differently to the existing flair connectors on the old
> > compressor head. So do you think that cutting off the hose flair
> > fittings and replacing them with the newer o ring fittings, the hose
> > will still be long enough to attach to the new compressor head? Worst
> > comes to the worst, I believe there are adaptors available.
> >
> > The receiver-drier as a matter of course should be replaced.
> >
> > As you suggest, replace the X.T. valve.
> >
> > So from what you remember, you re-used the old front condenser (in
> front
> > of the radiator), the in-dash evaporator, the thermostat and pressure
> > switch as well as the 2 very long rubber refrigerant hoses. The whole
> > system was evacuated of contaminants then regassed with R134A
> > refrigerant, tested for leaks and it passed ok?
> >
> > Are you aware of any other issues and does the a/c system still hold
> > it's gas ok ... that is, it's still quite cold even now when you use
> it,
> > some 5 years later?
> >
> > Do you run it periodically to keep the seals moist and do you have it
> > serviced annually or not?
> >
> > Thanks Yurik, I appreciate your help and guidance.
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com> , "Yurik Orlowsky"
> > yuriko@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Ken
> > >
> > > My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it to be
> > > ineffective. At one point when a re-gas was needed
> > >
> > > I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling
> > significantly.
> > > Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the
> > >
> > > new engine(2003) came with a compressor which was retro fitted to
> the
> > > existing system and this combination produced
> > >
> > > very crisp cold air - a huge improvement. I have come to the
> > conclusion
> > > that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern
> > >
> > > new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have. One of
> my
> > > friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled
> > >
> > > VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac.
> > >
> > > With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be modified
> > and new
> > > hose connectors installed to suit the compressor
> > >
> > > used. All other components remain.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yurik
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Ken
> > > Sent: Thursday, 20 November 2008 3:36 PM
> > > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] re: Original circa 1990 aftermarket
> air
> > > conditioning system ... upgradeable?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Gday ALL,
> > >
> > > Many syncros, in particular Trakka campers, had an aftermarket a/c
> > > system made by Prestige Auto Air in Sydney or else some other a/c
> > > business. My observations conclude that most if not all of these old
> > > systems no longer work satisfactorily, some people even resort to a
> > > re-gas just prior to their annual trip, hoping it lasts the
> distance.
> > >
> > > Has anyone had real success simply upgrading key components of the
> > > original a/c system such, that it now works well and no longer leaks
> > > refrigerant?
> > >
> > > By that I mean for example, replacing the compressor,
> receiver/drier,
> > > perhaps the thermostat, pressure switch, T.X. valve, gas seals etc.
> > > Also, possibly replaced the front condenser (in front of radiator)
> > > and/or the evaporator (mounted in/on dash in front of passenger
> seat.
> > >
> > > If anyone can say it has been done successfully, did it also include
> > > replacing the 2 large rubber refrigerant hoses that link the
> > > compressor on the motor and the receiver drier behind the front
> > > passenger side headlight? Perhaps they were replaced with metal
> lines.
> > >
> > > I'm interested at this early stage to at least try and find out if
> it
> > > is feasible in terms of being practical and economical. I've spoken
> > > to an accredited installer today and he didn't paint a rosy picture.
> > >
> > > Failing all else, I may remove the a/c components to lighten the
> load.
> > >
> > > Any helpful feedback would be much appreciated. TIA.
> > >
> > > Cheers.
> > >
> > > Ken
> > >
> >
23
Phill,

Right now and until I choose otherwise, I intend following the advice
proferred by Yurik. I have no qualms whatever about that. Some people
you have confidence in, some you don't eh.

I'm unclear why it is you keep banging on about ducting. Most of us
don't have any. In one of my previous posts to BenT, it's easily
understood I don't.

A legal requirement eh. Yes well with 3 levels of government holding our
hand in this relatively empty patch of dirt we call Oz, I'm not
surprised.


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
>
> Ken,
> Are Enzed qualified/licenced to do a/c hoses?
>
> If I were you, I would go to a few automotive a/c specialists and see
what they say. Don't just go to one (as he may be an empire builder) but
get a few opinions. Your a/c will never be any better than when it was
new due to the ducting design, but I always found these adequate. If you
want improvement get the Westy ducting as they work very well.
>
> If it is regassed, it should not leak as this is a legal requirement.
>
> Phill
>
>
>
> > Ken unclekenz@... wrote:
> >
> >
> > Gday Yurik,
> >
> > It has never occurred to me I could R&R the a/c component parts
myself,
> > especially after reading through the VASA website at
> > http://www.vasa.org.au/content/hotair/index.php
> > <http://www.vasa.org.au/content/hotair/index.php> and reading some
of
> > their relevant online newsletter items on this subject, warning
members
> > against taking short cuts etc.
> >
> > For example, they warned against installing new components into an
old
> > system, meaning that when the evacuation processes are carried out,
> > contaminants from old components often shift to new components and
> > contaminate them as well, which apparently causes even more
problems.
> > However, you seem not to have had issues such as this in your case.
> >
> > Also, they did talk about the importance that prior to installation
into
> > the system, to take the time to completely remove the manufacturers
> > temporary fluids from the compressor first.
> >
> > Yurik, I take it that as my a/c system has managed to de-gas itself,
> > opening up the system to replace components is no longer problematic
> > i.e., there is now no refrigerant to recover?
> >
> > So as you can see, I assumed this was a job only for the pros. But I
am
> > encouraged by what you are suggesting and I should look into it more
> > closely and perhaps add this project to my 2009 todo list. I suspect
> > quite a few other Prestige Auto Air system users may also see the
> > possibilities this presents.
> >
> > I see there is a local Enzed service centre here so using their
skilled
> > services for the new o ring hose connectors is a very good solution.
> > Goto: http://www.enzed.com.au/ <http://www.enzed.com.au/>
> >
> > Just in case someone has experience concerning a brand of compressor
> > called Zexel, I would be interested to here positive and negative
> > feedback here please.
> >
> > Thanks again Yurik. Cheers.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
> > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Yurik Orlowsky"
> > yuriko@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Ken,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the
> > existing
> > > bracket
> > >
> > > then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade. The remaining
> > things
> > > are to get
> > >
> > > new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX
valve
> > and
> > > receiver-drier.
> > >
> > > I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring
> > connectors.
> > > Any decrease
> > >
> > > of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be
made up
> > by
> > > using longer Al tails
> > >
> > > on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the
> > components
> > > in the system are re-used
> > >
> > > ie condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and
ask
> > them
> > > to do a re-gas.
> > >
> > > Making sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and
> > > contaminants. Having both
> > >
> > > a pressure test- using Nitrogen gas and a vacuum leak down test.
> > Making
> > > sure they use extra oil
> > >
> > > because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably
inject a
> > UV
> > > sensitive dye with the
> > >
> > > R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to
return
> > to
> > > them after approx
> > >
> > > 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one
would
> > expect a
> > > slow reduction of
> > >
> > > efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of
the
> > gas
> > > through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > For the moment I am keeping cool.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Yurik
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken
> > > Sent: Friday, 21 November 2008 9:41 AM
> > > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Original circa 1990 aftermarket
air
> > > conditioning system ... upgradeable?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Gday Yurik,
> > >
> > > Thanks a lot for this, so far you are the only one who has
experienced
> > > the sort of upgrade I had in mind and hopefully within a
reasonable
> > > budget.
> > >
> > > Balance what you have done with the view of the accredited a/c
> > installer
> > > I spoke to who essentially said an 18 year old system in this
> > > non-standard vehicle would be so affected by deterioration,
corrosion,
> > > poor sealing etc in so many components including the long hoses,
> > > realistically no one in the industry with typical high labour
costs
> > and
> > > overheads would touch it. Only a complete new system would attract
a
> > > warranty. In his view, the removal and replacement with a complete
new
> > > system would be prohibitively expensive. He did say though to try
and
> > > find someone with lower overheads such as the mobile a/c
accredited
> > > installers, even then it would probably have to be treated as a
> > "labour
> > > of love".
> > >
> > > Ok so please give me your thoughts on the following ok ....
> > >
> > > I believe I can get a new modern compressor with double pulley
that
> > > bolts straight on to the existing bracket. The compressor pulley
will
> > > line up correctly with the drive output pulley.
> > >
> > > I expect the o ring connectors on the new compressor head will be
set
> > > up/located differently to the existing flair connectors on the old
> > > compressor head. So do you think that cutting off the hose flair
> > > fittings and replacing them with the newer o ring fittings, the
hose
> > > will still be long enough to attach to the new compressor head?
Worst
> > > comes to the worst, I believe there are adaptors available.
> > >
> > > The receiver-drier as a matter of course should be replaced.
> > >
> > > As you suggest, replace the X.T. valve.
> > >
> > > So from what you remember, you re-used the old front condenser (in
> > front
> > > of the radiator), the in-dash evaporator, the thermostat and
pressure
> > > switch as well as the 2 very long rubber refrigerant hoses. The
whole
> > > system was evacuated of contaminants then regassed with R134A
> > > refrigerant, tested for leaks and it passed ok?
> > >
> > > Are you aware of any other issues and does the a/c system still
hold
> > > it's gas ok ... that is, it's still quite cold even now when you
use
> > it,
> > > some 5 years later?
> > >
> > > Do you run it periodically to keep the seals moist and do you have
it
> > > serviced annually or not?
> > >
> > > Thanks Yurik, I appreciate your help and guidance.
> > >
> > > Cheers.
> > >
> > > Ken
> > >
> > > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com> , "Yurik Orlowsky"
> > > yuriko@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ken
> > > >
> > > > My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it
to be
> > > > ineffective. At one point when a re-gas was needed
> > > >
> > > > I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling
> > > significantly.
> > > > Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the
> > > >
> > > > new engine(2003) came with a compressor which was retro fitted
to
> > the
> > > > existing system and this combination produced
> > > >
> > > > very crisp cold air - a huge improvement. I have come to the
> > > conclusion
> > > > that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern
> > > >
> > > > new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have. One
of
> > my
> > > > friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled
> > > >
> > > > VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac.
> > > >
> > > > With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be
modified
> > > and new
> > > > hose connectors installed to suit the compressor
> > > >
> > > > used. All other components remain.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yurik
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Ken
> > > > Sent: Thursday, 20 November 2008 3:36 PM
> > > > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] re: Original circa 1990
aftermarket
> > air
> > > > conditioning system ... upgradeable?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Gday ALL,
> > > >
> > > > Many syncros, in particular Trakka campers, had an aftermarket
a/c
> > > > system made by Prestige Auto Air in Sydney or else some other
a/c
> > > > business. My observations conclude that most if not all of these
old
> > > > systems no longer work satisfactorily, some people even resort
to a
> > > > re-gas just prior to their annual trip, hoping it lasts the
> > distance.
> > > >
> > > > Has anyone had real success simply upgrading key components of
the
> > > > original a/c system such, that it now works well and no longer
leaks
> > > > refrigerant?
> > > >
> > > > By that I mean for example, replacing the compressor,
> > receiver/drier,
> > > > perhaps the thermostat, pressure switch, T.X. valve, gas seals
etc.
> > > > Also, possibly replaced the front condenser (in front of
radiator)
> > > > and/or the evaporator (mounted in/on dash in front of passenger
> > seat.
> > > >
> > > > If anyone can say it has been done successfully, did it also
include
> > > > replacing the 2 large rubber refrigerant hoses that link the
> > > > compressor on the motor and the receiver drier behind the front
> > > > passenger side headlight? Perhaps they were replaced with metal
> > lines.
> > > >
> > > > I'm interested at this early stage to at least try and find out
if
> > it
> > > > is feasible in terms of being practical and economical. I've
spoken
> > > > to an accredited installer today and he didn't paint a rosy
picture.
> > > >
> > > > Failing all else, I may remove the a/c components to lighten the
> > load.
> > > >
> > > > Any helpful feedback would be much appreciated. TIA.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers.
> > > >
> > > > Ken
> > > >
> > >
>
24
> I'm unclear why it is you keep banging on about ducting.

That is the problem with the Australian a/c systems. The German ducted style works fantastic. I was at the VW Nationals when they were driving people around a test track all day and even though the outside temperature was in the high 20s, it remained cool in the Caravelle.

I know of people that modified the ducts/vents on their Aussie system which improved it. I do not think that a/c technology has really changed much in the last 20 years, so unless you compressor is knackered you will not get much of an improvement.

What is actually wrong with your a/c at the moment Ken?

Phill
25
Works fine except for 1 small iritation ... blows warm air. Been
regassed more than once, die tested more than once, fiddled with by
"experts" ... no joy. I could have put the wasted money toward a half
decent rebuild instead.

Seems this may come as a surprise to you Phill. The compressor fitted in
1990 is a far cry away in terms of design, efficiency, sealing etc. of
"modern" examples. Mind you, that is counterweighted by the trend these
days to build them down to a price, especially where vehicle
manufacturers are concerned, hence a thriving a/c service industry.


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
>
>
> > I'm unclear why it is you keep banging on about ducting.
>
> That is the problem with the Australian a/c systems. The German ducted
style works fantastic. I was at the VW Nationals when they were driving
people around a test track all day and even though the outside
temperature was in the high 20s, it remained cool in the Caravelle.
>
> I know of people that modified the ducts/vents on their Aussie system
which improved it. I do not think that a/c technology has really changed
much in the last 20 years, so unless you compressor is knackered you
will not get much of an improvement.
>
> What is actually wrong with your a/c at the moment Ken?
>
> Phill
>
26
Do you know that the idiot that regassed it should have fixed the leaks first. It is illegal to regass a system without fixing the leaks first.


I could have put the wasted money toward a half
> decent rebuild instead.


Yes, but the original system worked fine except for the air flow.



>
> Seems this may come as a surprise to you Phill. The compressor fitted in
> 1990 is a far cry away in terms of design, efficiency, sealing etc. of
> "modern" examples.

Bullshit, it's only a compressor it's not rocket science. The compressors that used to work on were made in the 1940s and they worked fine.
27
Phil,

Lets cut to the chase. As self appointed resident provocateur, I think
your efforts on this forum here are quite pathetic.

On here, you are a complete waste of space. I've always wondered is this
just you or do you have a hidden agenda going here we all know nothing
about, like maintaining a self appointed, I know everything, listen to
me, sub lieutenant role.

Time and time again, your deliberate offensive and smart arse retorts
and unhelpful succinct posts, I often find them to be embarrassing or
useless, offensive, inconsiderate, undiplomatic ... always have, always
will, as do others. Your method of contribution here is not appreciated
by the ordinary men and women who seek to enjoy their syncros and
participate in a meaningful and supportive interaction with like-minded
syncro owners here on Les's forum.

Phill, just go away ok, do us all a favour. I think your own website is
calling for you.

Les, I'm sorry about this but I think its about time someone cleared the
air, hopefully for the sanity of present and future members here and the
ongoing success of your Oz syncro forum.

Ken


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
>
> Do you know that the idiot that regassed it should have fixed the
leaks first. It is illegal to regass a system without fixing the leaks
first.
>
>
> I could have put the wasted money toward a half
> > decent rebuild instead.
>
>
> Yes, but the original system worked fine except for the air flow.
>
>
>
> >
> > Seems this may come as a surprise to you Phill. The compressor
fitted in
> > 1990 is a far cry away in terms of design, efficiency, sealing etc.
of
> > "modern" examples.
>
> Bullshit, it's only a compressor it's not rocket science. The
compressors that used to work on were made in the 1940s and they worked
fine.
>
28
Ken,
 
Enough!
 
This group was created as a mutual assistance organization.  In this role, it has functioned very well.  Your efforts in the matter of getting a basic air-conditioning system to work have been very good and it is relevant to a lot of members.  I have been following it closely as it will be of immeasurable assistance when I try to get my own (Prestige) system up and running.
 
An agent provocateur can sometimes be hard to wear but the devil's advocate role has good uses.  It frequently raises matters that have so far been overlooked. 
 
If this came from a list member who had not made the contributions that you have, I would remove them without hesitation.  You can be a bit of a pain at times but your interest and efforts are very well placed in this group.  Personal comments about an individual list member are not. 
 
If anyone has a grouch about any list member, they are free to take it up directly with the individual but not through the open forum.
 
Cool it, mate!
 
Les
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 12:11 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Original circa 1990 aftermarket air conditioning system ... upgradeable?


Phil,

Lets cut to the chase. As self appointed resident provocateur, I think
your efforts on this forum here are quite pathetic.

On here, you are a complete waste of space. I've always wondered is this
just you or do you have a hidden agenda going here we all know nothing
about, like maintaining a self appointed, I know everything, listen to
me, sub lieutenant role.

Time and time again, your deliberate offensive and smart arse retorts
and unhelpful succinct posts, I often find them to be embarrassing or
useless, offensive, inconsiderate, undiplomatic ... always have, always
will, as do others. Your method of contribution here is not appreciated
by the ordinary men and women who seek to enjoy their syncros and
participate in a meaningful and supportive interaction with like-minded
syncro owners here on Les's forum.

Phill, just go away ok, do us all a favour. I think your own website is
calling for you.

Les, I'm sorry about this but I think its about time someone cleared the
air, hopefully for the sanity of present and future members here and the
ongoing success of your Oz syncro forum.

Ken

.

29
Hey guys,

I just couldn't convince my friend to buy this one (arrrhhhh) but thought i'd share it with everyone.  Its on aussie vee dubbers . rung the guy up too he's pretty cool and relaxed.  He was planning on putting it on ebay soon so keep an eye out. . the link:

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=78483

Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. Get started.
30

Maybe it is just my experience, but all the syncros or even T3 kombis I have seen on ebay don't attract a very high sale price.
 
It seems only the split window kombis get the ridiculous money these days.
 
People just don't know what they are missing - the most capable and versatile vehicle ever made!
 
Scott
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 9:42 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Syncro FOR SALE $8500 Telecom "non locker"

 

Hey guys,

I just couldn't convince my friend to buy this one (arrrhhhh) but thought i'd share it with everyone.  Its on aussie vee dubbers . rung the guy up too he's pretty cool and relaxed.  He was planning on putting it on ebay soon so keep an eye out. . the link:

http://forums. aussieveedubbers .com/viewtopic. php?tid=78483

Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. Get started.


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.75/2340 - Release Date: 09/01/09 20:03:00
31
Agreed - one day (how far away it is I do not know) the Kombi crowd (Splitters -> Early Bat/Low Light -> Any Bay) will realise just how spacious, comfortable, versatile, powerful (relavtively speaking) the T3 is (and add a few more adjectives for Syncro!) and demand will increase.

Supply, however, will be short.

Mark.

On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Mr Scott Pitcher <spbconsulting@bigpond.com> wrote:



Maybe it is just my experience, but all the syncros or even T3 kombis I have seen on ebay don't attract a very high sale price.
It seems only the split window kombis get the ridiculous money these days.
People just don't know what they are missing - the most capable and versatile vehicle ever made!
Scott
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 9:42 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Syncro FOR SALE $8500 Telecom "non locker"

Hey guys,

I just couldn't convince my friend to buy this one (arrrhhhh) but thought i'd share it with everyone. Its on aussie vee dubbers . rung the guy up too he's pretty cool and relaxed. He was planning on putting it on ebay soon so keep an eye out. . the link:

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=78483

Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. Get started.


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.75/2340 - Release Date: 09/01/09 20:03:00

32
Have noticed that also. I paid $5000 for my syncro with a freshly recond engine and perfect rust/dent free bodywork all round. I couldn't buy a rusted out splitty for that kind of money.

I think the bay window kombis will sky rocket in value much like the splitty's. They simply have lots of character.They' have a history as being a car that dares to go anywhere and in many cases do. If I only had a dollar for every time I'd heard someone say kombi's will go anywhere I'd be a rich man. Everyone loves the bubble nose tire carriers round lights (eyes) and white bumper (mouth) and the curvy toy like body. Adds a personality and often leads to people naming their kombi's.

Remember lending the t2 to a mate of mine while his ford was in the workshop. he returned it after 2 days and said he couldn't believe how many people would smile and wave at him in that car. Even had people come over and ask him about it when he refueled it.

Most people will glance over at a t3 as nothing more than an ordinary van. It isn't until a person comes in for a closer inspection that they can really see their potential. I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before these vans have a following of people who realize just how versatile and capable these vans are. This realization is already taking place in the U.S where I've seen syncro campers sell for upwards of 40,000usd
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: spbconsulting@bigpond.com
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 22:29:45 +1000
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Syncro FOR SALE $8500 Telecom "non locker"

 

Maybe it is just my experience, but all the syncros or even T3 kombis I have seen on ebay don't attract a very high sale price.
 
It seems only the split window kombis get the ridiculous money these days.
 
People just don't know what they are missing - the most capable and versatile vehicle ever made!
 
Scott
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 9:42 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Syncro FOR SALE $8500 Telecom "non locker"

 

Hey guys,

I just couldn't convince my friend to buy this one (arrrhhhh) but thought i'd share it with everyone.  Its on aussie vee dubbers . rung the guy up too he's pretty cool and relaxed.  He was planning on putting it on ebay soon so keep an eye out. . the link:

http://forums. aussieveedubbers .com/viewtopic. php?tid=78483

Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. Get started.



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.75/2340 - Release Date: 09/01/09 20:03:00


Find out how here Use Messenger in your Hotmail inbox
33

Yes the Yanks seem to love them so much I think the T4 was a complete failure over there.
 
They particularly love the fully optioned Westfalia Syncros with beefed up motors.
 
Mine still gets attention in car parks and caravan parks but only because it has a pretty paint job still plus the big wheels. But not the attention my brother's split does.
 
He even did a print add for XXXX beer yesterday @ Palm Beach, Sydney with his Splitty.
 
You don't see any T3's in adds yet.
 
Scott
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 11:51 AM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Syncro FOR SALE $8500 Telecom "non locker"

 

Have noticed that also. I paid $5000 for my syncro with a freshly recond engine and perfect rust/dent free bodywork all round. I couldn't buy a rusted out splitty for that kind of money.

I think the bay window kombis will sky rocket in value much like the splitty's. They simply have lots of character.They' have a history as being a car that dares to go anywhere and in many cases do. If I only had a dollar for every time I'd heard someone say kombi's will go anywhere I'd be a rich man. Everyone loves the bubble nose tire carriers round lights (eyes) and white bumper (mouth) and the curvy toy like body. Adds a personality and often leads to people naming their kombi's.

Remember lending the t2 to a mate of mine while his ford was in the workshop. he returned it after 2 days and said he couldn't believe how many people would smile and wave at him in that car. Even had people come over and ask him about it when he refueled it.

Most people will glance over at a t3 as nothing more than an ordinary van. It isn't until a person comes in for a closer inspection that they can really see their potential. I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before these vans have a following of people who realize just how versatile and capable these vans are. This realization is already taking place in the U.S where I've seen syncro campers sell for upwards of 40,000usd

To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
From: spbconsulting@ bigpond.com
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 22:29:45 +1000
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Syncro FOR SALE $8500 Telecom "non locker"

 

Maybe it is just my experience, but all the syncros or even T3 kombis I have seen on ebay don't attract a very high sale price.
 
It seems only the split window kombis get the ridiculous money these days.
 
People just don't know what they are missing - the most capable and versatile vehicle ever made!
 
Scott
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 9:42 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Syncro FOR SALE $8500 Telecom "non locker"

 

Hey guys,

I just couldn't convince my friend to buy this one (arrrhhhh) but thought i'd share it with everyone.  Its on aussie vee dubbers . rung the guy up too he's pretty cool and relaxed.  He was planning on putting it on ebay soon so keep an eye out. . the link:

http://forums. aussieveedubbers .com/viewtopic. php?tid=78483

Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. Get started.



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.75/2340 - Release Date: 09/01/09 20:03:00


Find out how here Use Messenger in your Hotmail inbox


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Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.76/2342 - Release Date: 09/02/09 18:03:00
34

I can’t help but add an anecdote. 

 

As a lot of you know, I am a motor vehicle engineer and spent a lot of time at Holden building proof-of-concept and prototype vehicles.  I was sent to HSV to do the prototype HSV Coupe4, the all wheel drive coupe based on the Adventra drive train. 

 

I had found my Syncro at about the same time and I drove it to HSV initially, parking it in the staff car park.  It got instant attention and I spent several days giving staff a conducted tour and demonstrations of its climbing capability on a convenient embankment.

 

At the end of the week the HSV fleet manager told me that he had seen some very exotic machinery in the car park over many years but the Syncro had drawn more attention than the rest of them put together. 

 

Bearing in mind that most of the ongoing interest was from some very august and clever engineers, I believe that the attraction came down to the elegance of the engineering in the drive train plus the enormous and varied capability of the vehicle.  The fact that it was a full house Trakka camper was the icing on the cake, I think.

 

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Mr Scott Pitcher
Sent: 03 September 2009 14:29
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Syncro FOR SALE $8500 Telecom "non locker"

 

Yes the Yanks seem to love them so much I think the T4 was a complete failure over there.

 

They particularly love the fully optioned Westfalia Syncros with beefed up motors.

 

Mine still gets attention in car parks and caravan parks but only because it has a pretty paint job still plus the big wheels. But not the attention my brother's split does.

 

He even did a print add for XXXX beer yesterday @ Palm Beach , Sydney  with his Splitty.

 

You don't see any T3's in adds yet.

 

Scott

 

35
Les

I have heard you tell this anecdote personally and yet it is still just as good reading it this time.

This is a long shot question, however, you don't happen to have a photo of your Trakka Syncro at the HSV carpark do you?

Regards
Mark.

On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Les_Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

I can’t help but add an anecdote.

As a lot of you know, I am a motor vehicle engineer and spent a lot of time at Holden building proof-of-concept and prototype vehicles. I was sent to HSV to do the prototype HSV Coupe4, the all wheel drive coupe based on the Adventra drive train.

I had found my Syncro at about the same time and I drove it to HSV initially, parking it in the staff car park. It got instant attention and I spent several days giving staff a conducted tour and demonstrations of its climbing capability on a convenient embankment.

At the end of the week the HSV fleet manager told me that he had seen some very exotic machinery in the car park over many years but the Syncro had drawn more attention than the rest of them put together.

Bearing in mind that most of the ongoing interest was from some very august and clever engineers, I believe that the attraction came down to the elegance of the engineering in the drive train plus the enormous and varied capability of the vehicle. The fact that it was a full house Trakka camper was the icing on the cake, I think.

Les

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mr Scott Pitcher
Sent: 03 September 2009 14:29
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Syncro FOR SALE $8500 Telecom "non locker"

Yes the Yanks seem to love them so much I think the T4 was a complete failure over there.

They particularly love the fully optioned Westfalia Syncros with beefed up motors.

Mine still gets attention in car parks and caravan parks but only because it has a pretty paint job still plus the big wheels. But not the attention my brother's split does.

He even did a print add for XXXX beer yesterday @ Palm Beach, Sydney with his Splitty.

You don't see any T3's in adds yet.

Scott


36

Mark,

 

It is possible.  I will have to comb though some old files.

 

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Mark Kofahl
Sent: 03 September 2009 14:55
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] There's nothing like the Syncro!!

 

 

Les

I have heard you tell this anecdote personally and yet it is still just as good reading it this time.

This is a long shot question, however, you don't happen to have  a photo of your Trakka Syncro at the HSV carpark do you?

Regards
Mark.