Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] octane LPG

Yes the octane is higher so it would work better with a DJ motor. The calorific value of LPG is lower than petrol so there would be an increase in fuel consumption and loss of power.

Because of the low numbers of the LPG wasserboxers in Australia, there would have been hardly any research and developement and everything would be a compromise resulting in a less efficient engine. My opinion is that it would not be practical to convert a syncro and would take a long time to receive any economic benefit, if at all.
Phill

Hi Phill,

 

I think there a few syncro’s on gas. There was at least one other was at Bateman’s Bay.

 

Anyway, my experience, with a few off the cuff calculations, has been positive.  I’ve put nearly 10 years and 100,000Km on my conversion.  It was just done by the local generic LPG converter. No special consideration required for being a VW, or a Syncro (It used to be a drama for the air-cooled VW’s)   Assuming a consumption of about 17L/100Km on gas, and an average cost over that time of $0.30/litre (range $0.15 to current $0.46 in Melbourne), fuel costs on gas would be $5100.  On petrol, assuming a better consumption of 15L/100Km (although I don’t think the difference is quite that much) and an average cost of $0.90 (Guesstimate range over 10 years of $0.60 to $1.20) fuel would cost $13,500.  That’s a saving of $8400, less about $1600 back then for the conversion, $500 odd for an airflow meter (damaged by backfire, but at 200,000Km, may have needed replacing soon anyway) and at 10 years I’m supposed to have the tank re-tested (maybe $100). Net savings $6200 or so, and ongoing for the life of the van. And that’s without the Government conversion subsidies that are now available.

 

Only other downside;- finding somewhere for the tank (easier in a camper), and replacing a few filler caps that I seem more prone to lose than the petrol cap. I really can’t pick any power difference, and if you were doing a rebuild and could increase your compression, you’d have a good bit more, and only have to pay for Premium ULP for occasional use).  More upside;- Runs smoother on gas, cleaner for the environement, Australia has plenty (even if we are currently selling it to Asia at about $0.07/litre), and I don’t have to think twice about the fuel costs of going on a long trip.

 

Of course, I’m going diesel (T5) now, but I guess that means I can claim to be unbiased.

 

BRIAN REED

FAIRFIELD NATURAL THERAPIES

185 Wingrove St

Fairfield, Vic. 3078

03 9481 5673   0407 319 521


From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of plander@optusnet.com.au
Sent: Saturday, 17 February 2007 2:10 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] octane LPG

 



Yes the octane is higher so it would work better with a DJ motor. The calorific value of LPG is lower than petrol so there would be an increase in fuel consumption and loss of power.

Because of the low numbers of the LPG wasserboxers in Australia, there would have been hardly any research and developement and everything would be a compromise resulting in a less efficient engine. My opinion is that it would not be practical to convert a syncro and would take a long time to receive any economic benefit, if at all.
Phill

Hey Phil,
What about the possibility of burning valves earlier as the exhaust
output is, well cleaner, same applies for intake. Hmmm???
Hotter running engine really cant be good for our wasserboxer style
engine????
Andrew


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
>
>
>
> Yes the octane is higher so it would work better with a DJ motor.
The calorific value of LPG is lower than petrol so there would be an
increase in fuel consumption and loss of power.
>
> Because of the low numbers of the LPG wasserboxers in Australia,
there would have been hardly any research and developement and
everything would be a compromise resulting in a less efficient engine.
My opinion is that it would not be practical to convert a syncro and
would take a long time to receive any economic benefit, if at all.
> Phill
>
Yes, there could be increased wear.

The tank is also an issue as well as the size would limit the range.

Phill



> syncrosity4now <syncrosity4now@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
> Hey Phil,
> What about the possibility of burning valves earlier as the exhaust
> output is, well cleaner, same applies for intake. Hmmm???
> Hotter running engine really cant be good for our wasserboxer style
> engine????
> Andrew
>
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes the octane is higher so it would work better with a DJ motor.
> The calorific value of LPG is lower than petrol so there would be an
> increase in fuel consumption and loss of power.
> >
> > Because of the low numbers of the LPG wasserboxers in Australia,
> there would have been hardly any research and developement and
> everything would be a compromise resulting in a less efficient engine.
> My opinion is that it would not be practical to convert a syncro and
> would take a long time to receive any economic benefit, if at all.
> > Phill
> >
Dear Brian,
In the next cross street to me there's been an almost new T5 TDI 4motion panel van with an lpg sticker on its number plate. Have tried to "accidentally" bump into the driver to get more information but no luck so far and haven't seen van back for a while. Will contact you if any success as its also not that far from you.
Re 3rd March VW Weekend - really sorry can't make it as the Otways would be good- Have fun and  judge whether it perhaps could be a Victorian venue for next year's get together?
Cheers
Roger

Brian Reed <breed@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
Hi Phill,
 
I think there a few syncro’s on gas. There was at least one other was at Bateman’s Bay.
 
Anyway, my experience, with a few off the cuff calculations, has been positive.  I’ve put nearly 10 years and 100,000Km on my conversion.  It was just done by the local generic LPG converter. No special consideration required for being a VW, or a Syncro (It used to be a drama for the air-cooled VW’s)   Assuming a consumption of about 17L/100Km on gas, and an average cost over that time of $0.30/litre (range $0.15 to current $0.46 in Melbourne), fuel costs on gas would be $5100.  On petrol, assuming a better consumption of 15L/100Km (although I don’t think the difference is quite that much) and an average cost of $0.90 (Guesstimate range over 10 years of $0.60 to $1.20) fuel would cost $13,500.  That’s a saving of $8400, less about $1600 back then for the conversion, $500 odd for an airflow meter (damaged by backfire, but at 200,000Km, may have needed replacing soon anyway) and at 10 years I’m supposed to have the tank re-tested (maybe $100). Net savings $6200 or so, and ongoing for the life of the van. And that’s without the Government conversion subsidies that are now available.
 
Only other downside;- finding somewhere for the tank (easier in a camper), and replacing a few filler caps that I seem more prone to lose than the petrol cap. I really can’t pick any power difference, and if you were doing a rebuild and could increase your compression, you’d have a good bit more, and only have to pay for Premium ULP for occasional use).  More upside;- Runs smoother on gas, cleaner for the environement, Australia has plenty (even if we are currently selling it to Asia at about $0.07/litre) , and I don’t have to think twice about the fuel costs of going on a long trip.
 
Of course, I’m going diesel (T5) now, but I guess that means I can claim to be unbiased.
 
BRIAN REED
FAIRFIELD NATURAL THERAPIES
185 Wingrove St
Fairfield, Vic. 3078
03 9481 5673   0407 319 521

From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of plander@optusnet. com.au
Sent: Saturday, 17 February 2007 2:10 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] octane LPG
 


Yes the octane is higher so it would work better with a DJ motor. The calorific value of LPG is lower than petrol so there would be an increase in fuel consumption and loss of power.

Because of the low numbers of the LPG wasserboxers in Australia, there would have been hardly any research and developement and everything would be a compromise resulting in a less efficient engine. My opinion is that it would not be practical to convert a syncro and would take a long time to receive any economic benefit, if at all.
Phill

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

Second call for any-one going to Kennett River on the 3rd/4th March.  I’d like to be able to try out/research some Otways tracks while I’m down there, but, in keeping with good 4wd practise, do not want to do it on  my own.

 

Roger,

 

I’d be really interested to talk to that guy (maybe a note under the wipers, with either your phone no. or mine).  I’ve found one company on the internet (in SA) that promotes an LPG conversion for diesels.  It’s different to petrol conversions in that the LPG is added to the intake system while the diesel is still running, rather than replacing the other fuel as in a petrol system.  This is said to catalyse the combustion process so you get more complete burning of fuel, resulting in lower emissions (particularly soot/black smoke), better economy, and also substantially more power and torque (claimed 20 – 50%).  I get the impression, although they don’t say so, that the improvements are likely to be greater on older, less efficient diesels, so I’d be very interested to talk to some-one who’d installed a system on the VW PD turbo-diesels. Or maybe this guy has a different, or locally supplied system.

 

BRIAN REED

FAIRFIELD NATURAL THERAPIES

185 Wingrove St

Fairfield, Vic. 3078

03 9481 5673   0407 319 521


From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Roger Bell
Sent: Tuesday, 20 February 2007 12:43 AM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] octane LPG

 

Dear Brian,
In the next cross street to me there's been an almost new T5 TDI 4motion panel van with an lpg sticker on its number plate. Have tried to "accidentally" bump into the driver to get more information but no luck so far and haven't seen van back for a while. Will contact you if any success as its also not that far from you.
Re 3rd March VW Weekend - really sorry can't make it as the Otways would be good- Have fun and  judge whether it perhaps could be a Victorian venue for next year's get together?
Cheers
Roger

Brian Reed <breed@bigpond. net.au> wrote:

Hi Phill,

 

I think there a few syncro’s on gas. There was at least one other was at Bateman’s Bay.

 

Anyway, my experience, with a few off the cuff calculations, has been positive.  I’ve put nearly 10 years and 100,000Km on my conversion.  It was just done by the local generic LPG converter. No special consideration required for being a VW, or a Syncro (It used to be a drama for the air-cooled VW’s)   Assuming a consumption of about 17L/100Km on gas, and an average cost over that time of $0.30/litre (range $0.15 to current $0.46 in Melbourne), fuel costs on gas would be $5100.  On petrol, assuming a better consumption of 15L/100Km (although I don’t think the difference is quite that much) and an average cost of $0.90 (Guesstimate range over 10 years of $0.60 to $1.20) fuel would cost $13,500.  That’s a saving of $8400, less about $1600 back then for the conversion, $500 odd for an airflow meter (damaged by backfire, but at 200,000Km, may have needed replacing soon anyway) and at 10 years I’m supposed to have the tank re-tested (maybe $100). Net savings $6200 or so, and ongoing for the life of the van. And that’s without the Government conversion subsidies that are now available.

 

Only other downside;- finding somewhere for the tank (easier in a camper), and replacing a few filler caps that I seem more prone to lose than the petrol cap. I really can’t pick any power difference, and if you were doing a rebuild and could increase your compression, you’d have a good bit more, and only have to pay for Premium ULP for occasional use).  More upside;- Runs smoother on gas, cleaner for the environement, Australia has plenty (even if we are currently selling it to Asia at about $0.07/litre) , and I don’t have to think twice about the fuel costs of going on a long trip.

 

Of course, I’m going diesel (T5) now, but I guess that means I can claim to be unbiased.

 

BRIAN REED

FAIRFIELD NATURAL THERAPIES

185 Wingrove St

Fairfield, Vic. 3078

03 9481 5673   0407 319 521


From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of plander@optusnet. com.au
Sent: Saturday, 17 February 2007 2:10 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] octane LPG

 



Yes the octane is higher so it would work better with a DJ motor. The calorific value of LPG is lower than petrol so there would be an increase in fuel consumption and loss of power.

Because of the low numbers of the LPG wasserboxers in Australia, there would have been hardly any research and developement and everything would be a compromise resulting in a less efficient engine. My opinion is that it would not be practical to convert a syncro and would take a long time to receive any economic benefit, if at all.
Phill

 

 Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger .yahoo.com