Smallcar clutch issue - Theo

Hi all, lots of fun last night at VW Nationals, as requested by Theo, here are some of the threads on thesamba that talk about the common clutch issue with the Smallcar subaru conversion kit and some of the fixes.

A fair bit of reading but I think it's somewhere in these that;
-master cylinder over extends slave cylinder
-modified clutch pedal part of solution
-'pre-bleed' slave on installation

Who knows there might be some other factor to the issues you're having Theo, but hope this stuff might help.  There other smallcar threads on thesamba if these aren't the right ones but hopefully get you started.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1788044

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=631053&highlight=


https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649724


Good research Sam.

My smallcar bell housing works fine but I pre-primed my clutch slave and installed the master cylinder spacer.

All works fine - no issues.

What problems is Theo having?

Cheers,

Skot

On 28/05/2017 8:34 PM, me@samarnold.org [Syncro_T3_Australia] wrote:

Hi all, lots of fun last night at VW Nationals, as requested by Theo, here are some of the threads on thesamba that talk about the common clutch issue with the Smallcar subaru conversion kit and some of the fixes.

A fair bit of reading but I think it's somewhere in these that;
-master cylinder over extends slave cylinder
-modified clutch pedal part of solution
-'pre-bleed' slave on installation

Who knows there might be some other factor to the issues you're having Theo, but hope this stuff might help. There other smallcar threads on thesamba if these aren't the right ones but hopefully get you started.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1788044

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/ viewtopic.php?t=631053&highlight=


https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649724



--
Best regards, Scott Pitcher SPB Consulting
I'll let Theo explain the details.  When I heard small car and clutch issues it just reminded my of this stuff I was reading as I research my subaru conversion.


---In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, <spbconsulting@...> wrote :

Good research Sam.

My smallcar bell housing works fine but I pre-primed my clutch slave and installed the master cylinder spacer.

All works fine - no issues.

What problems is Theo having?

Cheers,

Skot

On 28/05/2017 8:34 PM, me@... [Syncro_T3_Australia] wrote:
 

Hi all, lots of fun last night at VW Nationals, as requested by Theo, here are some of the threads on thesamba that talk about the common clutch issue with the Smallcar subaru conversion kit and some of the fixes.

A fair bit of reading but I think it's somewhere in these that;
-master cylinder over extends slave cylinder
-modified clutch pedal part of solution
-'pre-bleed' slave on installation

Who knows there might be some other factor to the issues you're having Theo, but hope this stuff might help.  There other smallcar threads on thesamba if these aren't the right ones but hopefully get you started.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1788044

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/ viewtopic.php?t=631053&highlight=


https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649724



--
Best regards, Scott Pitcher SPB Consulting
Sam,

If you are putting a smallcar or RJES bell-housing on your Syncro gearbox then get Rudi to install it to ensure your backlash is correct.

Cheers,

Skot

On 28/05/2017 9:40 PM, me@samarnold.org [Syncro_T3_Australia] wrote:

I'll let Theo explain the details. When I heard small car and clutch issues it just reminded my of this stuff I was reading as I research my subaru conversion.



---In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, <spbconsulting@...> wrote :

Good research Sam.

My smallcar bell housing works fine but I pre-primed my clutch slave and installed the master cylinder spacer.

All works fine - no issues.

What problems is Theo having?

Cheers,

Skot

On 28/05/2017 8:34 PM, me@... [Syncro_T3_Australia] wrote:

Hi all, lots of fun last night at VW Nationals, as requested by Theo, here are some of the threads on thesamba that talk about the common clutch issue with the Smallcar subaru conversion kit and some of the fixes.

A fair bit of reading but I think it's somewhere in these that;
-master cylinder over extends slave cylinder
-modified clutch pedal part of solution
-'pre-bleed' slave on installation

Who knows there might be some other factor to the issues you're having Theo, but hope this stuff might help. There other smallcar threads on thesamba if these aren't the right ones but hopefully get you started.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1788044

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/ viewtopic.php?t=631053&highlight=


https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649724



--
Best regards, Scott Pitcher SPB Consulting

--
Best regards, Scott Pitcher SPB Consulting
Yes I hope to put the RJES input shaft in as well so I can use the subaru clutch.  Would love to have rudi do some of the work though the trip or freight would add cost and time to the conversion.  It may be that getting QLD folk to do the job though could be the easiest way.... still probably a year off so a lot of planning to do.  Few more people to chat with to see if they might be the best person to help me out, and time to sort my brake / engineering issues!  Though want to move on the brakes ASAP if I can.

Hi Scott,

 

Thank you for that very informative e-mail.

 

I have talked to AM Auto Services - they have installed the spacer so it is a bit of a mystery.

I had a look with my inspection camera and yes there is a spacer however I could not tell if it is worn away.

 

Next week I will return the Syncro to AM Auto to find out what’s the problem with the clutch.

 

Cheers,

Theo

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, 1 June 2017 2:29 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: VW Nationals and Camping

 

 

Hi Theo,

Thanks for travelling down and entering the show - its great to show folks these awesome vehicles face to face.

Anyway, regarding your clutch issues - Mao from Smallcar insisted that I install the spacer to the clutch master cylinder which restricts the clutch travel and prevents from pushing the clutch slave cylinder/ release bearing past its allowable run.

Anyway, I have attached a photo of the clutch kit from Smallcar which shows the small round black spacer in the photo next to the bell-housing. Its about 15mm long and the same diameter as the inner clutch master cylinder.


My mechanic installed it in about 10 minutes - just two bolts to remove it from the bracket - leave the fluid lines attached. - pull it out from the pedal cluster enough that you can see the rubber boot. Peel back the rubber boot and install the spacer in the cylinder by just placing it in there. Then reinstate the rubber boot and reinstall in the pedal cluster.

My mechanic used a battery powered rattle gun to do it and its just two 10mm bolts that hold it on.

If you dont have one of these spacers - get AM Autos to install one or buy one from Smallcar and do it yourself.
See the schematic below:
https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fshufti.files.wordpress.com%2F2010%2F11%2Fassexpl.jpg&t=1571752770&sig=w4.kg6ohgzKF5C8EZPFF.A--~E

A slipping clutch will show by the engine revving without any real drive forward - basically it will have less notable power as the clutch slips.

Did they install a Stage 2 clutch? I have heard the Stage 1 Suby clutch is inadequate to handle the EJ251 SOHC power.

Best of luck.

Cheers,

Scott


On 31/05/2017 4:54 PM, Theo teows@melbpc.org.au [Syncro_T3_Australia] wrote:

 

Syncronuts,

 

We finally made it home to Redcliffe. Thank you Ken for organizing the camp spots.

 

Sam,

Thanks for all the information on the small-car clutch issue from the samba website - lots of reading to be done.

So, there is a problem with some of the installation. It will give me a better understanding when I next talk to AM Auto Services.

 

Scott,

On my way down to Sydney, gear change got progressively harder. In Coffs Harbour I couldn’t  change at all. In 2nd  gear all the way through till

I found – AWARD EUROPEAN – mechanic who helped me on the spot. He bleed th e system and explained to me - not to push the clutch pedal

all the way and it worked. Paul gave me a piece of wood as a temporary stop under the pedal.

What is a master cylinder spacer – where  does it go?

 

On our way back through Coffs I went to AWARD EUROPEAN to adjust the hand brake and found out that the vacuum line wasn’t reinstalled

after the Subaru conversion. So, all in all, a few items still need to be sorted.

 

On our way back we also dropped  in on Gerald & Robyn - who owns a Syncro Caravelle with lots of extras, including a toolbox under the floor. Ken are you listening?

 

How can I check if the clutch is slipping?

  ;

Cheers,

Theo & Christine

 

 

 

 

--
Best regards, Scott Pitcher SPB Consulting

Good plan - taking it back to AM Autos.

Great to see they honour their warranty. I have nowhere to go except to myself, Rudi for the gearbox and my mechanic for the timing belts, water pump and thermostat.

May need to remove the box to check as the slave and release bearing is all within the bellhousing - not much outside the bellhousing. Easy job for those with a hoist - such as AM Autos...

Hows the rest of the conversion going?

I have found the Smallcar stuff very well engineered and brings the conversion to almost standard VW set up as opposed to other versions.

Cheers,

Skot

On 2/06/2017 8:35 PM, Theo teows@melbpc.org.au [Syncro_T3_Australia] wrote:

Hi Scott,

Thank you for that very informative e-mail.

I have talked to AM Auto Services - they have installed the spacer so it is a bit of a mystery.

I had a look with my inspection camera and yes there is a spacer however I could not tell if it is worn away.

Next week I will return the Syncro to AM Auto to find out what’s the problem with the clutch.

Cheers,

Theo

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, 1 June 2017 2:29 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: VW Nationals and Camping

Hi Theo,

Thanks for travelling down and entering the show - its great to show folks these awesome vehicles face to face.

Anyway, regarding your clutch issues - Mao from Smallcar insisted that I install the spacer to the clutch master cylinder which restricts the clutch travel and prevents from pushing the clutch slave cylinder/ release bearing past its allowable run.

Anyway, I have attached a photo of the clutch kit from Smallcar which shows the small round black spacer in the photo next to the bell-housing. Its about 15mm long and the same diameter as the inner clutch master cylinder.


My mechanic installed it in about 10 minutes - just two bolts to remove it from the bracket - leave the fluid lines attached. - pull it out from the pedal cluster enough that you can see the rubber boot. Peel back the rubber boot and install the spacer in the cylinder by just placing it in there. Then reinstate the rubber boot and reinstall in the pedal cluster.

My mechanic used a battery powered rattle gun to do it and its just two 10mm bolts that hold it on.

If you dont have one of these spacers - get AM Autos to install one or buy one from Smallcar and do it yourself.
See the schematic below:
https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fshufti.files.wordpress.com%2F2010%2F11%2Fassexpl.jpg&t=1571752770&sig=w4.kg6ohgzKF5C8EZPFF.A--~E

A slipping clutch will show by the engine revving without any real drive forward - basically it will have less notable power as the clutch slips.

Did they install a Stage 2 clutch? I have heard the Stage 1 Suby clutch is inadequate to handle the EJ251 SOHC power.

Best of luck.

Cheers,

Scott


On 31/05/2017 4:54 PM, Theo teows@melbpc.org.au [Syncro_T3_Australia] wrote:

Syncronuts,

We finally made it home to Redcliffe. Thank you Ken for organizing the camp spots.

Sam,

Thanks for all the information on the small-car clutch issue from the samba website - lots of reading to be done.

So, there is a problem with some of the installation. It will give me a better understanding when I next talk to AM Auto Services.

Scott,

On my way down to Sydney, gear change got progressively harder. In Coffs Harbour I couldn’t&nbs p; change at all. In 2nd gear all the way through till

I found – AWARD EUROPEAN – mechanic who helped me on the spot. He bleed th e system and explained to me - not to push the clutch pedal

all the way and it worked. Paul gave me a piece of wood as a temporary stop under the pedal.

What is a master cylinder spacer – where does it go?

On our way back through Coffs I went to AWARD EUROPEAN to adjust the hand brake and found out that the vacuum line wasn’t reinstalled

after the Subaru conversion. So, all in all, a few items still need to be sorted.

On our way back we also dropped in on Gerald & Robyn - who owns a Syncro Caravelle with lots of extras, including a toolbox un der the floor. Ken are you listening?

How can I check if the clutch is slipping?

;

Cheers,

Theo & Christine

--
Best regards, Scott Pitcher SPB Consulting


--
Best regards, Scott Pitcher SPB Consulting
I'm about 30000 kms into Small Car 2.5 conversion. No issues at all and only a Syncro driver looking closely would spot the Subi. I do confess to a lot of 2nd gear takeoffs around town. We'll see how long the clutch lasts. Fantastic to drive especially crawling rough tracks with the smoother torque available.

Mark
Great work Mark.

Be careful with your 2nd gear take offs.

Its not just the clutch that doesn't like it - the gearbox isn't very keen on it.

I found that out with at least 2 gearbox rebuilds requiring a replacement 2nd gear idler.

Cheers,

Skot'


On 4/06/2017 11:49 AM, m.mullet@yahoo.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia] wrote:

I'm about 30000 kms into Small Car 2.5 conversion. No issues at all and only a Syncro driver looking closely would spot the Subi. I do confess to a lot of 2nd gear takeoffs around town. We'll see how long the clutch lasts. Fantastic to drive especially crawling rough tracks with the smoother torque available.

Mark


--
Best regards, Scott Pitcher SPB Consulting