Syncro vs. Commodore alternators

Hey All,

Finally had my -syncro- alternator arrive from the US.

Can anyone tell me what the two charge connections are for on the back
of the syncro alternator?

The commodore only had one, and it appears whoever put the commodore
alternator into the van joined the two wires together. Wonder if this
is part of why my commodore alternators were dying.

Thanks all, Sam.
Gday Sam,

I can only suggest you look at the electrical schematics in the Bentley
publication and perhaps show it to an auto electrician to interpret what
those 2 wires are for and which connectors are for which of those 2
wires. Better to get it right the first time seeing as you've gone to so
much trouble.

Cheers.

Ken




--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "pootaguru" <me@...> wrote:
>
> Hey All,
>
> Finally had my -syncro- alternator arrive from the US.
>
> Can anyone tell me what the two charge connections are for on the back
> of the syncro alternator?
>
> The commodore only had one, and it appears whoever put the commodore
> alternator into the van joined the two wires together. Wonder if this
> is part of why my commodore alternators were dying.
>
> Thanks all, Sam.
>
Hey Ken,

Had a mate interpret the diagrams for me and he reckon's I've got it
right. Apparently both make it back to the battery but the D+ goes
via some box thing...

Only thing is, now she kicks over but doesn't start. Will look at it
more another night. Just slightly frustrated. Was supposed to be all
working tonight. Oh well. Gremlins.

:) Sam



--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> Gday Sam,
>
> I can only suggest you look at the electrical schematics in the Bentley
> publication and perhaps show it to an auto electrician to interpret what
> those 2 wires are for and which connectors are for which of those 2
> wires. Better to get it right the first time seeing as you've gone to so
> much trouble.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "pootaguru" <me@> wrote:
> >
> > Hey All,
> >
> > Finally had my -syncro- alternator arrive from the US.
> >
> > Can anyone tell me what the two charge connections are for on the back
> > of the syncro alternator?
> >
> > The commodore only had one, and it appears whoever put the commodore
> > alternator into the van joined the two wires together. Wonder if this
> > is part of why my commodore alternators were dying.
> >
> > Thanks all, Sam.
> >
>
Gday Sam,

I've had a look at those wires on my Syncro alternator connections. All
I can say is this: ......

The thicker red wire (or 2 in my case) connect to the larger nut
connector on the alternator. If your battery is connected, then this
wire has 12v current active in it all the time.

The thinner red wire connects to the smaller nut connector on the
alternator. This wire, despite its colour, is negative. Also attached to
this smaller nut is a similar sized red wire which you should find
exiting from the internal windings of the alternator.

Both the large and small red wires head away from the alternator in the
same tubing. They both go into the black plastic "junction" box that is
mounted on the wall on the passenger side front corner of the engine
bay. They then head off elsewhere.

When my motor turns over but doesn't start reminds me the kill switch I
have is still on. Maybe you have a kill switch or you've removed the
rotor in the distributor. Or you've run out of fuel. Or
................................. who knows!

Cheers. Ken.

The thinner red cab
--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "pootaguru" <me@...> wrote:
>
> Hey Ken,
>
> Had a mate interpret the diagrams for me and he reckon's I've got it
> right. Apparently both make it back to the battery but the D+ goes
> via some box thing...
>
> Only thing is, now she kicks over but doesn't start. Will look at it
> more another night. Just slightly frustrated. Was supposed to be all
> working tonight. Oh well. Gremlins.
>
> :) Sam
>
>
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" unclekenz@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > Gday Sam,
> >
> > I can only suggest you look at the electrical schematics in the
Bentley
> > publication and perhaps show it to an auto electrician to interpret
what
> > those 2 wires are for and which connectors are for which of those 2
> > wires. Better to get it right the first time seeing as you've gone
to so
> > much trouble.
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "pootaguru" <me@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hey All,
> > >
> > > Finally had my -syncro- alternator arrive from the US.
> > >
> > > Can anyone tell me what the two charge connections are for on the
back
> > > of the syncro alternator?
> > >
> > > The commodore only had one, and it appears whoever put the
commodore
> > > alternator into the van joined the two wires together. Wonder if
this
> > > is part of why my commodore alternators were dying.
> > >
> > > Thanks all, Sam.
> > >
> >
>
Hey Ken and all

In desperation have called the NRMA. Says to get it to an
autoelectrician. No Spark. Apparently no power to the coil.

See I can bolt and unbolt a part but can't diagnose any of this
electrical stuff. Did have a kill switch once but that was unwired
last time I had the NRMA out.

Ahh! Oh well, sort it out in the next few days.

Sam

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> Gday Sam,
>
> I've had a look at those wires on my Syncro alternator connections. All
> I can say is this: ......
>
> The thicker red wire (or 2 in my case) connect to the larger nut
> connector on the alternator. If your battery is connected, then this
> wire has 12v current active in it all the time.
>
> The thinner red wire connects to the smaller nut connector on the
> alternator. This wire, despite its colour, is negative. Also attached to
> this smaller nut is a similar sized red wire which you should find
> exiting from the internal windings of the alternator.
>
> Both the large and small red wires head away from the alternator in the
> same tubing. They both go into the black plastic "junction" box that is
> mounted on the wall on the passenger side front corner of the engine
> bay. They then head off elsewhere.
>
> When my motor turns over but doesn't start reminds me the kill switch I
> have is still on. Maybe you have a kill switch or you've removed the
> rotor in the distributor. Or you've run out of fuel. Or
> ................................. who knows!
>
> Cheers. Ken.
>
> The thinner red cab
>
Gday Sam,

Sounds a bit like you may have killed the voltage regulator when you had
the Holden alternator wired (miswired?) in. Or you've blown a major fuse
someplace. Maybe you killed the computer .... o oh! .... (expletive
deleted .. lol)

Yep I agree totally ... electrics are a real mystery ... find a friendly
auto electrician, preferably one who's owned a VW. They won't give you
that look of complete disdain ... hahaha

Just a few thoughts to make your day Sam. Keep us posted please, you've
got at least me hooked .... lol. Cheers.

Ken


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "pootaguru" <me@...> wrote:
>
> Hey Ken and all
>
> In desperation have called the NRMA. Says to get it to an
> autoelectrician. No Spark. Apparently no power to the coil.
>
> See I can bolt and unbolt a part but can't diagnose any of this
> electrical stuff. Did have a kill switch once but that was unwired
> last time I had the NRMA out.
>
> Ahh! Oh well, sort it out in the next few days.
>
> Sam
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" unclekenz@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > Gday Sam,
> >
> > I've had a look at those wires on my Syncro alternator connections.
All
> > I can say is this: ......
> >
> > The thicker red wire (or 2 in my case) connect to the larger nut
> > connector on the alternator. If your battery is connected, then this
> > wire has 12v current active in it all the time.
> >
> > The thinner red wire connects to the smaller nut connector on the
> > alternator. This wire, despite its colour, is negative. Also
attached to
> > this smaller nut is a similar sized red wire which you should find
> > exiting from the internal windings of the alternator.
> >
> > Both the large and small red wires head away from the alternator in
the
> > same tubing. They both go into the black plastic "junction" box that
is
> > mounted on the wall on the passenger side front corner of the engine
> > bay. They then head off elsewhere.
> >
> > When my motor turns over but doesn't start reminds me the kill
switch I
> > have is still on. Maybe you have a kill switch or you've removed the
> > rotor in the distributor. Or you've run out of fuel. Or
> > ................................. who knows!
> >
> > Cheers. Ken.
> >
> > The thinner red cab
> >
>
Looks like she's running and charging again. In a fit of inspiration
with brett having a look we joined the two wires back together onto
the larger terminal. presto.

So umm... being very tired and not having properly studied the manuals
yet, any idea what that 'negative' smaller terminal is for? Any
concerns that now this terminal has nothing connected to it on my van?
... wonder if whoever the genius was who put the commodore alternator
on my van also did some jiggery-pokery in the wiring loom...

Its all good, she's running :) Atleast I can sleep a little better
tonight.

Until next gremlin - Sam :)


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> Gday Sam,
>
> Sounds a bit like you may have killed the voltage regulator when you had
> the Holden alternator wired (miswired?) in. Or you've blown a major fuse
> someplace. Maybe you killed the computer .... o oh! .... (expletive
> deleted .. lol)
>
> Yep I agree totally ... electrics are a real mystery ... find a friendly
> auto electrician, preferably one who's owned a VW. They won't give you
> that look of complete disdain ... hahaha
>
> Just a few thoughts to make your day Sam. Keep us posted please, you've
> got at least me hooked .... lol. Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
Gday Sam

Good news that eh ... hope you had a celebratory drink or three.

Yes well I suppose it's to be expected all Syncros are different ...
owners have had 14 plus years to see to that.

I'm assuming my alternator is original, I know its previously had work
done on it because it says so on a sticker.

According to my multimeter, the small nut connection is negative. The
red wire coming out of the end of the alternator housing is connected to
it, so if you don't have a small wire coming out like I said, maybe you
have a different model. Or the wire is connected somewhere else. What
the other small red wire that heads off to the junction box does ... I
have no idea. Sorry I can't shed more light on it. It's handy to have a
multimeter though, particularly tracing wires, active wires and checking
continuity. Cheers.

Ken


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "pootaguru" <me@...> wrote:
>
> Looks like she's running and charging again. In a fit of inspiration
> with brett having a look we joined the two wires back together onto
> the larger terminal. presto.
>
> So umm... being very tired and not having properly studied the manuals
> yet, any idea what that 'negative' smaller terminal is for? Any
> concerns that now this terminal has nothing connected to it on my van?
> ... wonder if whoever the genius was who put the commodore alternator
> on my van also did some jiggery-pokery in the wiring loom...
>
> Its all good, she's running :) Atleast I can sleep a little better
> tonight.
>
> Until next gremlin - Sam :)
>
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" unclekenz@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > Gday Sam,
> >
> > Sounds a bit like you may have killed the voltage regulator when you
had
> > the Holden alternator wired (miswired?) in. Or you've blown a major
fuse
> > someplace. Maybe you killed the computer .... o oh! .... (expletive
> > deleted .. lol)
> >
> > Yep I agree totally ... electrics are a real mystery ... find a
friendly
> > auto electrician, preferably one who's owned a VW. They won't give
you
> > that look of complete disdain ... hahaha
> >
> > Just a few thoughts to make your day Sam. Keep us posted please,
you've
> > got at least me hooked .... lol. Cheers.
> >
> > Ken
> >
>
--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <unclekenz@...> wrote:

> According to my multimeter, the small nut connection is negative.

Probably for the radio interference capacitor.

The red wire coming out of the end of the alternator housing is
connected to
> it, so if you don't have a small wire coming out like I said, maybe
you
> have a different model. Or the wire is connected somewhere else. What
> the other small red wire that heads off to the junction box does ... I
> have no idea. Sorry I can't shed more light on it. It's handy to have
a
> multimeter though, particularly tracing wires, active wires and
checking
> continuity. Cheers.
>
> Ken

Large red wire B+ or 30 goes to starter. Small red wire goes to box with
Digifant and fuel pump relay.

Blue wire D+ or Df goes to light on dash.

VW colours

Red/rot Battery + or 30

Brown/Braun - or 31

Black/swartz Ignition + or 15



Red always 12v

Blue 12v with ignition on

Hope this helps.

Phill
Thanks all those who assisted in my Syncro vs. Commodore Alternator
Saga.

Just for anyone who is interested I thought I should let all know
the final conclusion...

...So Brett and I get the van running, but didn't test it for long,
it's late so Brett goes home and all good.

The next night I pack my bag and jump into the van for a sleepover
at a mate's gathering and the alternator light is on constant - yet
the battery is charging and van appears to be running fine. I call
Brett in a slightly distressed manner but we both agree if the
battery is charging then she should be alright for the trip. So I
hop in and decide I should try a run around the block just to make
sure.

By the time I make it around the block the temperature guage is at
3/4, though the temp light has not come on. I freak out and turn
her off and can hear coolant boiling over. Somehow in the brief
trip around my small block she'd thrown the alternator belt, which
also drives the water pump. Alternator belt looking kind of old and
warped now.

Anyway, next day brett and I figure out that the blue wire should
indeed be going to the small nut terminal, the splade connector on
the blue wire was put on by previous owner. I later find out that
the 'W' splade terminal on my alternator is only for the tacho on
diesel vanagons, useless on gasoline vanagons.

So I'm buying a whole set of new belts this afternoon for a trip
this weekend. Fingers crossed, no gremlins on this trip :)

Hope all is going well. Sam.

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "hdvwoc" <plander@...>
wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <unclekenz@>
wrote:
>
> > According to my multimeter, the small nut connection is negative.
>
> Probably for the radio interference capacitor.
>
> The red wire coming out of the end of the alternator housing is
> connected to
> > it, so if you don't have a small wire coming out like I said,
maybe
> you
> > have a different model. Or the wire is connected somewhere else.
What
> > the other small red wire that heads off to the junction box
does ... I
> > have no idea. Sorry I can't shed more light on it. It's handy to
have
> a
> > multimeter though, particularly tracing wires, active wires and
> checking
> > continuity. Cheers.
> >
> > Ken
>
> Large red wire B+ or 30 goes to starter. Small red wire goes to
box with
> Digifant and fuel pump relay.
>
> Blue wire D+ or Df goes to light on dash.
>
> VW colours
>
> Red/rot Battery + or 30
>
> Brown/Braun - or 31
>
> Black/swartz Ignition + or 15
>
>
>
> Red always 12v
>
> Blue 12v with ignition on
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Phill
>
Make sure that you buy toothed belts (genuine is even better) and DO
NOT overtighten.



--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "pootaguru" <me@...>
wrote:
>
> Thanks all those who assisted in my Syncro vs. Commodore Alternator
> Saga.
>
> Just for anyone who is interested I thought I should let all know
> the final conclusion...
>
> ...So Brett and I get the van running, but didn't test it for long,
> it's late so Brett goes home and all good.
>
> The next night I pack my bag and jump into the van for a sleepover
> at a mate's gathering and the alternator light is on constant - yet
> the battery is charging and van appears to be running fine. I call
> Brett in a slightly distressed manner but we both agree if the
> battery is charging then she should be alright for the trip. So I
> hop in and decide I should try a run around the block just to make
> sure.
>
> By the time I make it around the block the temperature guage is at
> 3/4, though the temp light has not come on. I freak out and turn
> her off and can hear coolant boiling over. Somehow in the brief
> trip around my small block she'd thrown the alternator belt, which
> also drives the water pump. Alternator belt looking kind of old
and
> warped now.
>
> Anyway, next day brett and I figure out that the blue wire should
> indeed be going to the small nut terminal, the splade connector on
> the blue wire was put on by previous owner. I later find out that
> the 'W' splade terminal on my alternator is only for the tacho on
> diesel vanagons, useless on gasoline vanagons.
>
> So I'm buying a whole set of new belts this afternoon for a trip
> this weekend. Fingers crossed, no gremlins on this trip :)
>
> Hope all is going well. Sam.
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "hdvwoc" <plander@>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <unclekenz@>
> wrote:
> >
> > > According to my multimeter, the small nut connection is
negative.
> >
> > Probably for the radio interference capacitor.
> >
> > The red wire coming out of the end of the alternator housing is
> > connected to
> > > it, so if you don't have a small wire coming out like I said,
> maybe
> > you
> > > have a different model. Or the wire is connected somewhere
else.
> What
> > > the other small red wire that heads off to the junction box
> does ... I
> > > have no idea. Sorry I can't shed more light on it. It's handy
to
> have
> > a
> > > multimeter though, particularly tracing wires, active wires and
> > checking
> > > continuity. Cheers.
> > >
> > > Ken
> >
> > Large red wire B+ or 30 goes to starter. Small red wire goes to
> box with
> > Digifant and fuel pump relay.
> >
> > Blue wire D+ or Df goes to light on dash.
> >
> > VW colours
> >
> > Red/rot Battery + or 30
> >
> > Brown/Braun - or 31
> >
> > Black/swartz Ignition + or 15
> >
> >
> >
> > Red always 12v
> >
> > Blue 12v with ignition on
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > Phill
> >
>
Volkspower in Melbourne is very insistent that the alternator belt be run as loose as possible (and toothed belts, as Phill says, and preferably genuine), just short of slipping.  Set it up loose and keep tightening until the slipping is JUST eliminated, no more.
 
Les
 
Small point: when you are replying to a long post, you can delete everything except the key lines.  This significantly reduces the bulk of the reply posts.
 
----- Original Message -----
From: hdvwoc
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 6:38 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] The saga finale Re: Syncro vs. Commodore alternators

Make sure that you buy toothed belts (genuine is even better) and DO
NOT overtighten.



--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "pootaguru" <me@...>
wrote:
>
> Thanks all those who assisted in my Syncro vs. Commodore Alternator
> Saga.
>
Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] The saga finale Re: Syncro vs.
Just in case any one is wondering why it should be run as loose as possible, the reason is to avoid premature wear on the water pump bearings, over tightening will result in a ruined water pump in short time, noisy bearing and possible coolant leakage.

Steve


Volkspower in Melbourne is very insistent that the alternator belt be run as loose as possible (and toothed belts, as Phill says, and preferably genuine), just short of slipping.  Set it up loose and keep tightening until the slipping is JUST eliminated, no more.