4.86 ratio

21

Hi les,

 

We do have lots of audi’s here but almost no subaru’s.

But I was merely speaking for myself as In Belgium, Holland and Germany people are more into converting into TDI’s.

There are far more new TDI’s on the road here now then petrol powered cars. Drove a BMW today of a friend of mine, with a TDI engine it does 220 km/h…

Most common TDI’s are those of the VAG group : audi, Volkswagen, seat and skoda. Get these cars off the road and there will be no more queuing on the motorways J

So, mostly here it’s either converting to TDI or just rebuilding the engine. A lot of people also put their petrol T3’s on LPG to save there wallet and the environment

In the UK , US Subaru conversions are more common.

So every part of the world has it’s own habbits J

 

mike

 

Van: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] Namens Les Harris
Verzonden: vrijdag 9 februari 2007 8:42
Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] adding power

 

Mike,

 

I agree with all that but there is one significant difference in Australia.

 

The Subaru is very common here and has been on the scene for a very long time.  There are many dealers and there are many on the roads, there is a good pool of dealer knowledge (workshop knowledge), and spares are adequately represented, probably far better than Volkswagen.

 

Volkswagen has had an on and off relationship with Australia over 40 or more years.  They have gone for extreme to extreme.  They have gone from having a big factory at Clayton in Melbourne to having no presence in Australia whatsoever.  During these latter times, they appointed Australian distributors, with varying results. 

 

Whenever a company blows hot and cold, they inevitably erode the confidence base of their customers.  Many have done it and many have paid the price.  It's not confined to the automotive market; it happens in other fields.  Suzuki did it recently with outboard motors and they are now struggling to regain their once good market share.  Subaru have had a constant presence in Australia and have built up a strong reputation as a result. 

 

The matter of keeping to the original spec is up to the individual owner.  I happen to have a good 2.1 MV but would not hesitate to go the Subaru path if it got to be a problem.

 

Conversely, Audi does not have a big presence in Australia, with the commensurate problems with sourcing spares.  Oettingers do not exist in Australia, so forget about spares.  Adding turbos or superchargers falls into the same field - you would need to be very sure of spares support before going that path.

 

So, in summary, this is not a question of alternatives being "forgotten" in Australia, it is simply a matter of pragmatics.  If such alternatives do not exist in Australia or have no support or spares in Australia, you would need to be very brave (or very rich) to choose to go that way. 

 

Les

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike

Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 5:25 PM

Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] adding power

 

Hi les,

Or when one wants more power but wants to keep it a volkswagen and not a vw-subaru mixture one ha sfour options :

1)Add a turbo and intercooler, a german company does so (Schick), giving the DJ 163 hp and 280Nm torque, a south african company also did it (turbovans I think they were called).

2) Add a compressor (supercharger) , e.g. from a new Mini, but then start from an MV engine or, when starting from the DJ bring down the compression ratio in the car first

3) Put in a 3.2 oettinger, it’s basically the same as the DJ but with two extra cylinders. (or the tuned version, the 3.7 oettinger

4) Last possibility, still VW original : put in an audi 2.5 or 2.6 like they did in the T3’s they build till about a year or two ago. They also stopped production of the Syncro in 1992 so that only two syncro’s came originally with this engine. But in the later T3’s it became the standard thus replacing the waterboxer. There’s an OEM bellhousing that makes you bolt the audi engine right onto your gearbox

For those who also see their cars as collectors items, changing it into Subaru is not an option. It’s also not that easy but I agree it’s a great engine. But the other options are often forgotten, don’t know why but according to me they are the way to go

Van: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com ] Namens Les Harris
Verzonden: donderdag 8 februari 2007 23:38
Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: 4.86 ratio

The 2.1 is no ball of fire but that's what most of us use.  There's not a lot of point trying to up the power of it because the cost benefit ratio is miniscule.  The standard 2WD T3 has 4.86 and the Syncro runs quite well on the same ratio.  The wheel size comes into it, but it is the tyre size that determines the revs per kilometre and in turn the distance travelled, not the rim diameter on its own.  You lose a bit of flexibility off road, particularly in the lower gears but it wouldn't bother a competent driver.  The 6+ ratios are strictly full time off road stuff.  On normal roads, they turn the Syncro into a mobile chicane.  The Albins 3/4 gear set is of a higher ratio - higher road speed per 1000 RPM.

If you want to significantly improve the power/torque, you should consider going Subaru, particularly the 2.5.  It costs, but worth it in the end.  Several members of this group have done it.

Remember that you will have to get a 2WD T3 speedo if you change the front diff ratio.

Les

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 10:59 PM

Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: 4.86 ratio

Yes i am aware of all this to a certain point, as for modifications to
the enginre the only thig i may do at present is give throw on some
1.25 ratio rockers and a decent high flow cat and muffler system oh
and som 4 prong spark plugs if i can find them(havent looked yet).
So as to the gearbox i am hoping by keeping it relatively stock and
keep it standard except for maybe for a heavy duty 3rd 4th. And at
some stage a decent heavy duty diff set.
So by matching my gearbox ratios and tyres and keeping it relatively
stock i seem to be making some headway and choosing the right path. My
motor is a 2.1ltr so i am fairly confident it will take the load of 15
inch tyres and a 4.86 diff ratio. Not really caring about top speed as
we all know it counts for nothing in the bush, so i am more so going
for a finer balance.

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com, "Mike" <borzeken@.. .> wrote:


.




22
How about using the MV engine with DJ pistons, ratio rockers and maybe a cam and chip?
You would probably gain 20-30 hp which would be nearing the limit of the gearbox anyway.
Phill



> Mike <borzeken@telenet.be> wrote:
>
> Hi les,
>
>
>
> Or when one wants more power but wants to keep it a volkswagen and not a
> vw-subaru mixture one ha sfour options :
>
>
>
> 1)Add a turbo and intercooler, a german company does so (Schick), giving
> the
> DJ 163 hp and 280Nm torque, a south african company also did it
> (turbovans I
> think they were called).
>
> 2) Add a compressor (supercharger), e.g. from a new Mini, but then start
> from an MV engine or, when starting from the DJ bring down the
> compression
> ratio in the car first
>
> 3) Put in a 3.2 oettinger, it's basically the same as the DJ but with
> two
> extra cylinders. (or the tuned version, the 3.7 oettinger
>
> 4) Last possibility, still VW original : put in an audi 2.5 or 2.6 like
> they
> did in the T3's they build till about a year or two ago. They also
> stopped
> production of the Syncro in 1992 so that only two syncro's came
> originally
> with this engine. But in the later T3's it became the standard thus
> replacing the waterboxer. There's an OEM bellhousing that makes you bolt
> the
> audi engine right onto your gearbox
>
>
>
> For those who also see their cars as collectors items, changing it into
> Subaru is not an option. It's also not that easy but I agree it's a
> great
> engine. But the other options are often forgotten, don't know why but
> according to me they are the way to go
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Van: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] Namens Les Harris
> Verzonden: donderdag 8 februari 2007 23:38
> Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: 4.86 ratio
>
>
>
> The 2.1 is no ball of fire but that's what most of us use. There's not
> a
> lot of point trying to up the power of it because the cost benefit ratio
> is
> miniscule. The standard 2WD T3 has 4.86 and the Syncro runs quite well
> on
> the same ratio. The wheel size comes into it, but it is the tyre size
> that
> determines the revs per kilometre and in turn the distance travelled,
> not
> the rim diameter on its own. You lose a bit of flexibility off road,
> particularly in the lower gears but it wouldn't bother a competent
> driver.
> The 6+ ratios are strictly full time off road stuff. On normal roads,
> they
> turn the Syncro into a mobile chicane. The Albins 3/4 gear set is of a
> higher ratio - higher road speed per 1000 RPM.
>
>
>
> If you want to significantly improve the power/torque, you should
> consider
> going Subaru, particularly the 2.5. It costs, but worth it in the end.
> Several members of this group have done it.
>
>
>
> Remember that you will have to get a 2WD T3 speedo if you change the
> front
> diff ratio.
>
>
>
> Les
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: syncrosity4now <mailto:syncrosity4now@yahoo.com.au>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 10:59 PM
>
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: 4.86 ratio
>
>
>
> Yes i am aware of all this to a certain point, as for modifications to
> the enginre the only thig i may do at present is give throw on some
> 1.25 ratio rockers and a decent high flow cat and muffler system oh
> and som 4 prong spark plugs if i can find them(havent looked yet).
> So as to the gearbox i am hoping by keeping it relatively stock and
> keep it standard except for maybe for a heavy duty 3rd 4th. And at
> some stage a decent heavy duty diff set.
> So by matching my gearbox ratios and tyres and keeping it relatively
> stock i seem to be making some headway and choosing the right path. My
> motor is a 2.1ltr so i am fairly confident it will take the load of 15
> inch tyres and a 4.86 diff ratio. Not really caring about top speed as
> we all know it counts for nothing in the bush, so i am more so going
> for a finer balance.
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia
> <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <borzeken@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> .
>
>
> <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m
> sgI
> d=1366/stime=1170935991/nc1=3848610/nc2=4025325/nc3=3>
>
>
>
>
23

Back in time these guys knew how to tune an MV or DJ egnine and they still do :

http://www.schick-tuning.de/

choose T3 and scroll down to see some spectacular numbers.

And about reaching the limit of a gearbox, one gets to that limit much sooner with a TDI conversion then with petrol. A petrol engine gives it power a lot smoother. A Syncro VR6 with 170 hp did great without a stronger gearbox. The gearbox is said to be able to cope with 200Nm if one puts in SA oiling plates. I reckon it’s a hell of a lot more. I heard stories of Porsche 3200 engines in syncro’s, Subaru svx or wrx engines with 200hp and more,… none complaining about broken boxes. Or are these people shy and don’t want to tell it (as everyone has warned them they couldn’t do so ? I only hear of problems with tdi’s, and even then not about gearboxes but about burned clutches.

 

So I was wondering if anyone could share some experience with broken gearboxes due to adding power ?

 

Mike

www.wbx6.com

 

 

Van: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] Namens plander@optusnet.com.au
Verzonden: vrijdag 9 februari 2007 20:50
Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] adding power

 

How about using the MV engine with DJ pistons, ratio rockers and maybe a cam and chip?
You would probably gain 20-30 hp which would be nearing the limit of the gearbox anyway.
Phill

> Mike <borzeken@telenet. be>
wrote:
>
> Hi les,
>
>
>
> Or when one wants more power but wants to keep it a volkswagen and not a
> vw-subaru mixture one ha sfour options :
>
>
>
> 1)Add a turbo and intercooler, a german company does so (Schick), giving
> the
> DJ 163 hp and 280Nm torque, a south african company also did it
> (turbovans I
> think they were called).
>
> 2) Add a compressor (supercharger) , e.g. from a new Mini, but then
start
> from an MV engine or, when starting from the DJ bring down the
> compression
> ratio in the car first
>
> 3) Put in a 3.2 oettinger, it's basically the same as the DJ but with
> two
> extra cylinders. (or the tuned version, the 3.7 oettinger
>
> 4) Last possibility, still VW original : put in an audi 2.5 or 2.6 like
> they
> did in the T3's they build till about a year or two ago. They also
> stopped
> production of the Syncro in 1992 so that only two syncro's came
> originally
> with this engine. But in the later T3's it became the standard thus
> replacing the waterboxer. There's an OEM bellhousing that makes you bolt
> the
> audi engine right onto your gearbox
>
>
>
> For those who also see their cars as collectors items, changing it into
> Subaru is not an option. It's also not that easy but I agree it's a
> great
> engine. But the other options are often forgotten, don't know why but
> according to me they are the way to go
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Van: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com]
Namens Les Harris
> Verzonden: donderdag 8 februari 2007 23:38
> Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: 4.86 ratio
>
>
>
> The 2.1 is no ball of fire but that's what most of us use. There's not
> a
> lot of point trying to up the power of it because the cost benefit ratio
> is
> miniscule. The standard 2WD T3 has 4.86 and the Syncro runs quite well
> on
> the same ratio. The wheel size comes into it, but it is the tyre size
> that
> determines the revs per kilometre and in turn the distance travelled,
> not
> the rim diameter on its own. You lose a bit of flexibility off road,
> particularly in the lower gears but it wouldn't bother a competent
> driver.
> The 6+ ratios are strictly full time off road stuff. On normal roads,
> they
> turn the Syncro into a mobile chicane. The Albins 3/4 gear set is of a
> higher ratio - higher road speed per 1000 RPM.
>
>
>
> If you want to significantly improve the power/torque, you should
> consider
> going Subaru, particularly the 2.5. It costs, but worth it in the end.
> Several members of this group have done it.
>
>
>
> Remember that you will have to get a 2WD T3 speedo if you change the
> front
> diff ratio.
>
>
>
> Les
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: syncrosity4now <mailto:
href="mailto:syncrosity4now%40yahoo.com.au">syncrosity4now@ yahoo.com. au>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia <mailto:
href="mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com">Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com>
> @yahoogroups. com
>
> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 10:59 PM
>
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: 4.86 ratio
>
>
>
> Yes i am aware of all this to a certain point, as for modifications to
> the enginre the only thig i may do at present is give throw on some
> 1.25 ratio rockers and a decent high flow cat and muffler system oh
> and som 4 prong spark plugs if i can find them(havent looked yet).
> So as to the gearbox i am hoping by keeping it relatively stock and
> keep it standard except for maybe for a heavy duty 3rd 4th. And at
> some stage a decent heavy duty diff set.
> So by matching my gearbox ratios and tyres and keeping it relatively
> stock i seem to be making some headway and choosing the right path. My
> motor is a 2.1ltr so i am fairly confident it will take the load of 15
> inch tyres and a 4.86 diff ratio. Not really caring about top speed as
> we all know it counts for nothing in the bush, so i am more so going
> for a finer balance.
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia
> <mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia% 40yahoogroups. com>
> @yahoogroups. com, "Mike" <borzeken@.. .> wrote:
>
>
>
> .
>
>
> <
href="http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m">http://geo.yahoo. com/serv? s=97359714/ grpId=13267315/ grpspId=17099262 40/m
> sgI
> d=1366/stime= 1170935991/ nc1=3848610/ nc2=4025325/ nc3=3>
>
>
>
>

24
Oettinger would only put the WBX 6 with automatics.

You are correct, I have not heard of any unusual problems with VR6s. No more than the normal problems anyway. Although there must be a limit.



> Mike <borzeken@telenet.be> wrote:
>
> Back in time these guys knew how to tune an MV or DJ egnine and they
> still
> do :
>
> http://www.schick-tuning.de/
>
> choose T3 and scroll down to see some spectacular numbers.
>
> And about reaching the limit of a gearbox, one gets to that limit much
> sooner with a TDI conversion then with petrol. A petrol engine gives it
> power a lot smoother. A Syncro VR6 with 170 hp did great without a
> stronger
> gearbox. The gearbox is said to be able to cope with 200Nm if one puts
> in SA
> oiling plates. I reckon it's a hell of a lot more. I heard stories of
> Porsche 3200 engines in syncro's, Subaru svx or wrx engines with 200hp
> and
> more,. none complaining about broken boxes. Or are these people shy and
> don't want to tell it (as everyone has warned them they couldn't do so ?
> I
> only hear of problems with tdi's, and even then not about gearboxes but
> about burned clutches.
>
>
>
> So I was wondering if anyone could share some experience with broken
> gearboxes due to adding power ?
>
>
>
> Mike
>
> www.wbx6.com <http://www.wbx6.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Van: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] Namens
> plander@optusnet.com.au
> Verzonden: vrijdag 9 februari 2007 20:50
> Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] adding power
>
>
>
> How about using the MV engine with DJ pistons, ratio rockers and maybe a
> cam
> and chip?
> You would probably gain 20-30 hp which would be nearing the limit of the
> gearbox anyway.
> Phill
>
> > Mike <borzeken@telenet. <mailto:borzeken%40telenet.be> be> wrote:
> >
> > Hi les,
> >
> >
> >
> > Or when one wants more power but wants to keep it a volkswagen and not
> a
> > vw-subaru mixture one ha sfour options :
> >
> >
> >
> > 1)Add a turbo and intercooler, a german company does so (Schick),
> giving
> > the
> > DJ 163 hp and 280Nm torque, a south african company also did it
> > (turbovans I
> > think they were called).
> >
> > 2) Add a compressor (supercharger), e.g. from a new Mini, but then
> start
> > from an MV engine or, when starting from the DJ bring down the
> > compression
> > ratio in the car first
> >
> > 3) Put in a 3.2 oettinger, it's basically the same as the DJ but with
> > two
> > extra cylinders. (or the tuned version, the 3.7 oettinger
> >
> > 4) Last possibility, still VW original : put in an audi 2.5 or 2.6
> like
> > they
> > did in the T3's they build till about a year or two ago. They also
> > stopped
> > production of the Syncro in 1992 so that only two syncro's came
> > originally
> > with this engine. But in the later T3's it became the standard thus
> > replacing the waterboxer. There's an OEM bellhousing that makes you
> bolt
> > the
> > audi engine right onto your gearbox
> >
> >
> >
> > For those who also see their cars as collectors items, changing it
> into
> > Subaru is not an option. It's also not that easy but I agree it's a
> > great
> > engine. But the other options are often forgotten, don't know why but
> > according to me they are the way to go
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > Van: Syncro_T3_Australia
> <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com] Namens Les Harris
> > Verzonden: donderdag 8 februari 2007 23:38
> > Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia
> <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com
> > Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: 4.86 ratio
> >
> >
> >
> > The 2.1 is no ball of fire but that's what most of us use. There's not
>
> > a
> > lot of point trying to up the power of it because the cost benefit
> ratio
> > is
> > miniscule. The standard 2WD T3 has 4.86 and the Syncro runs quite well
>
> > on
> > the same ratio. The wheel size comes into it, but it is the tyre size
> > that
> > determines the revs per kilometre and in turn the distance travelled,
> > not
> > the rim diameter on its own. You lose a bit of flexibility off road,
> > particularly in the lower gears but it wouldn't bother a competent
> > driver.
> > The 6+ ratios are strictly full time off road stuff. On normal roads,
> > they
> > turn the Syncro into a mobile chicane. The Albins 3/4 gear set is of a
> > higher ratio - higher road speed per 1000 RPM.
> >
> >
> >
> > If you want to significantly improve the power/torque, you should
> > consider
> > going Subaru, particularly the 2.5. It costs, but worth it in the end.
> > Several members of this group have done it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Remember that you will have to get a 2WD T3 speedo if you change the
> > front
> > diff ratio.
> >
> >
> >
> > Les
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: syncrosity4now <mailto:syncrosity4now@
> <mailto:syncrosity4now%40yahoo.com.au> yahoo.com.au>
> >
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com> @yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 10:59 PM
> >
> > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: 4.86 ratio
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes i am aware of all this to a certain point, as for modifications to
> > the enginre the only thig i may do at present is give throw on some
> > 1.25 ratio rockers and a decent high flow cat and muffler system oh
> > and som 4 prong spark plugs if i can find them(havent looked yet).
> > So as to the gearbox i am hoping by keeping it relatively stock and
> > keep it standard except for maybe for a heavy duty 3rd 4th. And at
> > some stage a decent heavy duty diff set.
> > So by matching my gearbox ratios and tyres and keeping it relatively
> > stock i seem to be making some headway and choosing the right path. My
> > motor is a 2.1ltr so i am fairly confident it will take the load of 15
> > inch tyres and a 4.86 diff ratio. Not really caring about top speed as
> > we all know it counts for nothing in the bush, so i am more so going
> > for a finer balance.
> >
> > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <borzeken@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> >
> >
> > <http://geo.yahoo
> <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m
> >
> com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m
> > sgI
> > d=1366/stime=1170935991/nc1=3848610/nc2=4025325/nc3=3>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
25

Nope, oettinger put them in syncro’s as well. There’s an oettinger carat Syncro for sale in germany , and I know another original one with broken engine in Holland (a club joker Syncro oettinger 3.2). Both are the140HP versions with the catalyctic convertor; I know of at least two factory original 16” Syncro with the 140 hp 3.2 oettinger. I thought they also put some 165 ph ones in syncro’s but never the 3.7 oettinger with 180 hp.

 

There is a limit somewhere but I have no idea where it is J

 

Mike plompen

 

Van: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] Namens plander@optusnet.com.au
Verzonden: zaterdag 10 februari 2007 8:10
Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
CC: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] broken gearboxes, was : adding power

 

Oettinger would only put the WBX 6 with automatics.

You are correct, I have not heard of any unusual problems with VR6s. No more than the normal problems anyway. Although there must be a limit.

> Mike <borzeken@telenet. be>
wrote:
>
> Back in time these guys knew how to tune an MV or DJ egnine and they
> still
> do :
>
> http://www.schick- tuning.de/
>
> choose T3 and scroll down to see some spectacular numbers.
>
> And about reaching the limit of a gearbox, one gets to that limit much
> sooner with a TDI conversion then with petrol. A petrol engine gives it
> power a lot smoother. A Syncro VR6 with 170 hp did great without a
> stronger
> gearbox. The gearbox is said to be able to cope with 200Nm if one puts
> in SA
> oiling plates. I reckon it's a hell of a lot more. I heard stories of
> Porsche 3200 engines in syncro's, Subaru svx or wrx engines with 200hp
> and
> more,. none complaining about broken boxes. Or are these people shy and
> don't want to tell it (as everyone has warned them they couldn't do so ?
> I
> only hear of problems with tdi's, and even then not about gearboxes but
> about burned clutches.
>
>
>
> So I was wondering if anyone could share some experience with broken
> gearboxes due to adding power ?
>
>
>
> Mike
>
> www.wbx6.com <http://www.wbx6. com/>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Van: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com]
Namens
> plander@optusnet. com.au
> Verzonden: vrijdag 9 februari 2007 20:50
> Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] adding power
>
>
>
> How about using the MV engine with DJ pistons, ratio rockers and maybe a
> cam
> and chip?
> You would probably gain 20-30 hp which would be nearing the limit of the
> gearbox anyway.
> Phill
>
> > Mike <borzeken@telenet. <mailto:borzeken% 40telenet. be>
be> wrote:
> >
> > Hi les,
> >
> >
> >
> > Or when one wants more power but wants to keep it a volkswagen and
not
> a
> > vw-subaru mixture one ha sfour options :
> >
> >
> >
> > 1)Add a turbo and intercooler, a german company does so (Schick),
> giving
> > the
> > DJ 163 hp and 280Nm torque, a south african company also did it
> > (turbovans I
> > think they were called).
> >
> > 2) Add a compressor (supercharger) , e.g. from a new Mini, but
then
> start
> > from an MV engine or, when starting from the DJ bring down the
> > compression
> > ratio in the car first
> >
> > 3) Put in a 3.2 oettinger, it's basically the same as the DJ but with
> > two
> > extra cylinders. (or the tuned version, the 3.7 oettinger
> >
> > 4) Last possibility, still VW original : put in an audi 2.5 or 2.6
> like
> > they
> > did in the T3's they build till about a year or two ago. They also
> > stopped
> > production of the Syncro in 1992 so that only two syncro's came
> > originally
> > with this engine. But in the later T3's it became the standard thus
> > replacing the waterboxer. There's an OEM bellhousing that makes you
> bolt
> > the
> > audi engine right onto your gearbox
> >
> >
> >
> > For those who also see their cars as collectors items, changing it
> into
> > Subaru is not an option. It's also not that easy but I agree it's a
> > great
> > engine. But the other options are often forgotten, don't know why but
> > according to me they are the way to go
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > Van: Syncro_T3_Australia
> <mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia% 40yahoogroups. com>
> @yahoogroups. com
> > [mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia
> <mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia% 40yahoogroups. com>
> @yahoogroups. com] Namens Les Harris
> > Verzonden: donderdag 8 februari 2007 23:38
> > Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia
> <mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia% 40yahoogroups. com>
> @yahoogroups. com
> > Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: 4.86 ratio
> >
> >
> >
> > The 2.1 is no ball of fire but that's what most of us use. There's
not
>
> > a
> > lot of point trying to up the power of it because the cost benefit
> ratio
> > is
> > miniscule. The standard 2WD T3 has 4.86 and the Syncro runs quite
well
>
> > on
> > the same ratio. The wheel size comes into it, but it is the tyre size
> > that
> > determines the revs per kilometre and in turn the distance travelled,
> > not
> > the rim diameter on its own. You lose a bit of flexibility off road,
> > particularly in the lower gears but it wouldn't bother a competent
> > driver.
> > The 6+ ratios are strictly full time off road stuff. On normal roads,
> > they
> > turn the Syncro into a mobile chicane. The Albins 3/4 gear set is of
a
> > higher ratio - higher road speed per 1000 RPM.
> >
> >
> >
> > If you want to significantly improve the power/torque, you should
> > consider
> > going Subaru, particularly the 2.5. It costs, but worth it in the
end.
> > Several members of this group have done it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Remember that you will have to get a 2WD T3 speedo if you change the
> > front
> > diff ratio.
> >
> >
> >
> > Les
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: syncrosity4now <mailto:syncrosity4 now@
> <mailto:syncrosity4 now%40yahoo. com.au> yahoo.com.au>
> >
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia <mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia
> <mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia% 40yahoogroups. com>
@yahoogroups. com>
> > @yahoogroups. com
> >
> > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 10:59 PM
> >
> > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: 4.86 ratio
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes i am aware of all this to a certain point, as for modifications
to
> > the enginre the only thig i may do at present is give throw on some
> > 1.25 ratio rockers and a decent high flow cat and muffler system oh
> > and som 4 prong spark plugs if i can find them(havent looked yet).
> > So as to the gearbox i am hoping by keeping it relatively stock and
> > keep it standard except for maybe for a heavy duty 3rd 4th. And at
> > some stage a decent heavy duty diff set.
> > So by matching my gearbox ratios and tyres and keeping it relatively
> > stock i seem to be making some headway and choosing the right path.
My
> > motor is a 2.1ltr so i am fairly confident it will take the load of
15
> > inch tyres and a 4.86 diff ratio. Not really caring about top speed
as
> > we all know it counts for nothing in the bush, so i am more so going
> > for a finer balance.
> >
> > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia% 40yahoogroups. com>
> > @yahoogroups. com, "Mike" <borzeken@.. .>
wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> >
> >
> > <http://geo.yahoo.
> <
href="http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m">http://geo.yahoo. com/serv? s=97359714/ grpId=13267315/ grpspId=17099262 40/m
> >
> com/serv?s=97359714 /grpId=13267315/ grpspId=17099262 40/m
> > sgI
> > d=1366/stime= 1170935991/ nc1=3848610/ nc2=4025325/ nc3=3>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

26
Just a magazine article that I had said that they would only put them in automatics.

Phill

(Who was your friend with the imaculate VR6 syncro camper that I was speaking with at Vanfest?)



> Mike <borzeken@telenet.be> wrote:
>
> Nope, oettinger put them in syncro's as well. There's an oettinger carat
> Syncro for sale in germany, and I know another original one with broken
> engine in Holland (a club joker Syncro oettinger 3.2). Both are the140HP
> versions with the catalyctic convertor; I know of at least two factory
> original 16" Syncro with the 140 hp 3.2 oettinger. I thought they also
> put
> some 165 ph ones in syncro's but never the 3.7 oettinger with 180 hp.
>
>
>
> There is a limit somewhere but I have no idea where it is :-)
>
>
>
> Mike plompen
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Van: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] Namens
> plander@optusnet.com.au
> Verzonden: zaterdag 10 februari 2007 8:10
> Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> CC: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] broken gearboxes, was : adding
> power
>
>
>
> Oettinger would only put the WBX 6 with automatics.
>
> You are correct, I have not heard of any unusual problems with VR6s. No
> more
> than the normal problems anyway. Although there must be a limit.
>
> > Mike <borzeken@telenet. <mailto:borzeken%40telenet.be> be> wrote:
> >
> > Back in time these guys knew how to tune an MV or DJ egnine and they
> > still
> > do :
> >
> > http://www.schick- <http://www.schick-tuning.de/> tuning.de/
> >
> > choose T3 and scroll down to see some spectacular numbers.
> >
> > And about reaching the limit of a gearbox, one gets to that limit much
> > sooner with a TDI conversion then with petrol. A petrol engine gives
> it
> > power a lot smoother. A Syncro VR6 with 170 hp did great without a
> > stronger
> > gearbox. The gearbox is said to be able to cope with 200Nm if one puts
>
> > in SA
> > oiling plates. I reckon it's a hell of a lot more. I heard stories of
> > Porsche 3200 engines in syncro's, Subaru svx or wrx engines with 200hp
>
> > and
> > more,. none complaining about broken boxes. Or are these people shy
> and
> > don't want to tell it (as everyone has warned them they couldn't do so
> ?
> > I
> > only hear of problems with tdi's, and even then not about gearboxes
> but
> > about burned clutches.
> >
> >
> >
> > So I was wondering if anyone could share some experience with broken
> > gearboxes due to adding power ?
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > www.wbx6.com <http://www.wbx6. <http://www.wbx6.com/> com/>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > Van: Syncro_T3_Australia
> <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com] Namens
> > plander@optusnet. <mailto:plander%40optusnet.com.au> com.au
> > Verzonden: vrijdag 9 februari 2007 20:50
> > Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia
> <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com
> > Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] adding power
> >
> >
> >
> > How about using the MV engine with DJ pistons, ratio rockers and maybe
> a
> > cam
> > and chip?
> > You would probably gain 20-30 hp which would be nearing the limit of
> the
> > gearbox anyway.
> > Phill
> >
> > > Mike <borzeken@telenet. <mailto:borzeken%40telenet.be> be> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi les,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Or when one wants more power but wants to keep it a volkswagen and
> not
> > a
> > > vw-subaru mixture one ha sfour options :
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 1)Add a turbo and intercooler, a german company does so (Schick),
> > giving
> > > the
> > > DJ 163 hp and 280Nm torque, a south african company also did it
> > > (turbovans I
> > > think they were called).
> > >
> > > 2) Add a compressor (supercharger), e.g. from a new Mini, but then
> > start
> > > from an MV engine or, when starting from the DJ bring down the
> > > compression
> > > ratio in the car first
> > >
> > > 3) Put in a 3.2 oettinger, it's basically the same as the DJ but
> with
> > > two
> > > extra cylinders. (or the tuned version, the 3.7 oettinger
> > >
> > > 4) Last possibility, still VW original : put in an audi 2.5 or 2.6
> > like
> > > they
> > > did in the T3's they build till about a year or two ago. They also
> > > stopped
> > > production of the Syncro in 1992 so that only two syncro's came
> > > originally
> > > with this engine. But in the later T3's it became the standard thus
> > > replacing the waterboxer. There's an OEM bellhousing that makes you
> > bolt
> > > the
> > > audi engine right onto your gearbox
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > For those who also see their cars as collectors items, changing it
> > into
> > > Subaru is not an option. It's also not that easy but I agree it's a
> > > great
> > > engine. But the other options are often forgotten, don't know why
> but
> > > according to me they are the way to go
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > Van: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com] Namens Les Harris
> > > Verzonden: donderdag 8 februari 2007 23:38
> > > Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com
> > > Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: 4.86 ratio
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The 2.1 is no ball of fire but that's what most of us use. There's
> not
> >
> > > a
> > > lot of point trying to up the power of it because the cost benefit
> > ratio
> > > is
> > > miniscule. The standard 2WD T3 has 4.86 and the Syncro runs quite
> well
> >
> > > on
> > > the same ratio. The wheel size comes into it, but it is the tyre
> size
> > > that
> > > determines the revs per kilometre and in turn the distance
> travelled,
> > > not
> > > the rim diameter on its own. You lose a bit of flexibility off road,
> > > particularly in the lower gears but it wouldn't bother a competent
> > > driver.
> > > The 6+ ratios are strictly full time off road stuff. On normal
> roads,
> > > they
> > > turn the Syncro into a mobile chicane. The Albins 3/4 gear set is of
> a
> > > higher ratio - higher road speed per 1000 RPM.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If you want to significantly improve the power/torque, you should
> > > consider
> > > going Subaru, particularly the 2.5. It costs, but worth it in the
> end.
> > > Several members of this group have done it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Remember that you will have to get a 2WD T3 speedo if you change the
>
> > > front
> > > diff ratio.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Les
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > From: syncrosity4now <mailto:syncrosity4now@
> > <mailto:syncrosity4now%40yahoo.com.au> yahoo.com.au>
> > >
> > > To: Syncro_T3_Australia <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com> @yahoogroups.com>
> > > @yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 10:59 PM
> > >
> > > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: 4.86 ratio
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes i am aware of all this to a certain point, as for modifications
> to
> > > the enginre the only thig i may do at present is give throw on some
> > > 1.25 ratio rockers and a decent high flow cat and muffler system oh
> > > and som 4 prong spark plugs if i can find them(havent looked yet).
> > > So as to the gearbox i am hoping by keeping it relatively stock and
> > > keep it standard except for maybe for a heavy duty 3rd 4th. And at
> > > some stage a decent heavy duty diff set.
> > > So by matching my gearbox ratios and tyres and keeping it relatively
> > > stock i seem to be making some headway and choosing the right path.
> My
> > > motor is a 2.1ltr so i am fairly confident it will take the load of
> 15
> > > inch tyres and a 4.86 diff ratio. Not really caring about top speed
> as
> > > we all know it counts for nothing in the bush, so i am more so going
> > > for a finer balance.
> > >
> > > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > @yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <borzeken@...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > .
> > >
> > >
> > > <http://geo.yahoo.
> > <http://geo.yahoo.
> <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m
> >
> com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m
> > >
> > com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m
> > > sgI
> > > d=1366/stime=1170935991/nc1=3848610/nc2=4025325/nc3=3>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
27

Hi phil,

 

I have some articles on my site www.wbx6.com on the oettinger but most of them are hard to read as they are copies, sorry.

The VR6 friend is Jean Louis Brion, he had that engine in his Syncro with galvanised body. At vanfest he sold the Syncro to a lady from the UK

Normally the engine would produce 200hp, 170 was jean louis’ estimation as the exhaust was way shorter then in a car with the enginie up front. To regain that extra power he should have had the exhaust from the south afrcan 2.5 audi engines adapted to the vr6. These go first a bit to the front of the car and tehn come back to the rear.

 

Mike

Van: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] Namens plander@optusnet.com.au
Verzonden: zaterdag 10 februari 2007 8:48
Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
CC: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] broken gearboxes, was : adding power

 

Just a magazine article that I had said that they would only put them in automatics.

Phill

(Who was your friend with the imaculate VR6 syncro camper that I was speaking with at Vanfest?)

> Mike <borzeken@telenet. be>
wrote:
>
> Nope, oettinger put them in syncro's as well. There's an oettinger carat
> Syncro for sale in germany, and I know another original one with broken
> engine in Holland (a club joker Syncro oettinger 3.2). Both are the140HP
> versions with the catalyctic convertor; I know of at least two factory
> original 16" Syncro with the 140 hp 3.2 oettinger. I thought they
also
> put
> some 165 ph ones in syncro's but never the 3.7 oettinger with 180 hp.
>
>
>
> There is a limit somewhere but I have no idea where it is :-)
>
>
>
> Mike plompen
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Van: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com]
Namens
> plander@optusnet. com.au
> Verzonden: zaterdag 10 februari 2007 8:10
> Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> CC: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] broken gearboxes, was : adding
> power
>
>
>
> Oettinger would only put the WBX 6 with automatics.
>
> You are correct, I have not heard of any unusual problems with VR6s. No
> more
> than the normal problems anyway. Although there must be a limit.
>
> > Mike <borzeken@telenet. <mailto:borzeken% 40telenet. be>
be> wrote:
> >
> > Back in time these guys knew how to tune an MV or DJ egnine and they
> > still
> > do :
> >
> > http://www.schick- <
href="http://www.schick-tuning.de/">http://www.schick- tuning.de/> tuning.de/
> >
> > choose T3 and scroll down to see some spectacular numbers.
> >
> > And about reaching the limit of a gearbox, one gets to that limit
much
> > sooner with a TDI conversion then with petrol. A petrol engine gives
> it
> > power a lot smoother. A Syncro VR6 with 170 hp did great without a
> > stronger
> > gearbox. The gearbox is said to be able to cope with 200Nm if one
puts
>
> > in SA
> > oiling plates. I reckon it's a hell of a lot more. I heard stories of
> > Porsche 3200 engines in syncro's, Subaru svx or wrx engines with 200hp
>
> > and
> > more,. none complaining about broken boxes. Or are these people shy
> and
> > don't want to tell it (as everyone has warned them they couldn't do
so
> ?
> > I
> > only hear of problems with tdi's, and even then not about gearboxes
> but
> > about burned clutches.
> >
> >
> >
> > So I was wondering if anyone could share some experience with broken
> > gearboxes due to adding power ?
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > www.wbx6.com <http://www.wbx6. <
href="http://www.wbx6.com/">http://www.wbx6. com/> com/>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > Van: Syncro_T3_Australia
> <mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia% 40yahoogroups. com>
> @yahoogroups. com
> > [mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia
> <mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia% 40yahoogroups. com>
> @yahoogroups. com] Namens
> > plander@optusnet. <mailto:plander% 40optusnet. com.au>
com.au
> > Verzonden: vrijdag 9 februari 2007 20:50
> > Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia
> <mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia% 40yahoogroups. com>
> @yahoogroups. com
> > Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] adding power
> >
> >
> >
> > How about using the MV engine with DJ pistons, ratio rockers and
maybe
> a
> > cam
> > and chip?
> > You would probably gain 20-30 hp which would be nearing the limit of
> the
> > gearbox anyway.
> > Phill
> >
> > > Mike <borzeken@telenet. <mailto:borzeken% 40telenet. be>
be> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi les,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Or when one wants more power but wants to keep it a volkswagen
and
> not
> > a
> > > vw-subaru mixture one ha sfour options :
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 1)Add a turbo and intercooler, a german company does so
(Schick),
> > giving
> > > the
> > > DJ 163 hp and 280Nm torque, a south african company also did it
> > > (turbovans I
> > > think they were called).
> > >
> > > 2) Add a compressor (supercharger) , e.g. from a new Mini,
but then
> > start
> > > from an MV engine or, when starting from the DJ bring down the
> > > compression
> > > ratio in the car first
> > >
> > > 3) Put in a 3.2 oettinger, it's basically the same as the DJ but
> with
> > > two
> > > extra cylinders. (or the tuned version, the 3.7 oettinger
> > >
> > > 4) Last possibility, still VW original : put in an audi 2.5 or
2.6
> > like
> > > they
> > > did in the T3's they build till about a year or two ago. They
also
> > > stopped
> > > production of the Syncro in 1992 so that only two syncro's came
> > > originally
> > > with this engine. But in the later T3's it became the standard
thus
> > > replacing the waterboxer. There's an OEM bellhousing that makes
you
> > bolt
> > > the
> > > audi engine right onto your gearbox
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > For those who also see their cars as collectors items, changing
it
> > into
> > > Subaru is not an option. It's also not that easy but I agree
it's a
> > > great
> > > engine. But the other options are often forgotten, don't know
why
> but
> > > according to me they are the way to go
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > Van: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia% 40yahoogroups. com>
> > @yahoogroups. com
> > > [mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia% 40yahoogroups. com>
> > @yahoogroups. com] Namens Les Harris
> > > Verzonden: donderdag 8 februari 2007 23:38
> > > Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia% 40yahoogroups. com>
> > @yahoogroups. com
> > > Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: 4.86 ratio
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The 2.1 is no ball of fire but that's what most of us use.
There's
> not
> >
> > > a
> > > lot of point trying to up the power of it because the cost
benefit
> > ratio
> > > is
> > > miniscule. The standard 2WD T3 has 4.86 and the Syncro runs
quite
> well
> >
> > > on
> > > the same ratio. The wheel size comes into it, but it is the tyre
> size
> > > that
> > > determines the revs per kilometre and in turn the distance
> travelled,
> > > not
> > > the rim diameter on its own. You lose a bit of flexibility off
road,
> > > particularly in the lower gears but it wouldn't bother a
competent
> > > driver.
> > > The 6+ ratios are strictly full time off road stuff. On normal
> roads,
> > > they
> > > turn the Syncro into a mobile chicane. The Albins 3/4 gear set
is of
> a
> > > higher ratio - higher road speed per 1000 RPM.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If you want to significantly improve the power/torque, you
should
> > > consider
> > > going Subaru, particularly the 2.5. It costs, but worth it in
the
> end.
> > > Several members of this group have done it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Remember that you will have to get a 2WD T3 speedo if you change
the
>
> > > front
> > > diff ratio.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Les
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > From: syncrosity4now <mailto:syncrosity4 now@
> > <mailto:syncrosity4 now%40yahoo. com.au>
yahoo.com.au>
> > >
> > > To: Syncro_T3_Australia <mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia% 40yahoogroups. com>
@yahoogroups. com>
> > > @yahoogroups. com
> > >
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 10:59 PM
> > >
> > > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: 4.86 ratio
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes i am aware of all this to a certain point, as for
modifications
> to
> > > the enginre the only thig i may do at present is give throw on
some
> > > 1.25 ratio rockers and a decent high flow cat and muffler system
oh
> > > and som 4 prong spark plugs if i can find them(havent looked
yet).
> > > So as to the gearbox i am hoping by keeping it relatively stock
and
> > > keep it standard except for maybe for a heavy duty 3rd 4th. And
at
> > > some stage a decent heavy duty diff set.
> > > So by matching my gearbox ratios and tyres and keeping it
relatively
> > > stock i seem to be making some headway and choosing the right
path.
> My
> > > motor is a 2.1ltr so i am fairly confident it will take the load
of
> 15
> > > inch tyres and a 4.86 diff ratio. Not really caring about top
speed
> as
> > > we all know it counts for nothing in the bush, so i am more so
going
> > > for a finer balance.
> > >
> > > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > <mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia% 40yahoogroups. com>
> > > @yahoogroups. com, "Mike" <borzeken@.. .>
wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > .
> > >
> > >
> > > <http://geo.yahoo.
> > <http://geo.yahoo.
> <
href="http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m">http://geo.yahoo. com/serv? s=97359714/ grpId=13267315/ grpspId=17099262 40/m
> >
> com/serv?s=97359714 /grpId=13267315/ grpspId=17099262 40/m
> > >
> > com/serv?s=97359714 /grpId=13267315/ grpspId=17099262 40/m
> > > sgI
> > > d=1366/stime= 1170935991/ nc1=3848610/ nc2=4025325/ nc3=3>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

28
Wow money to burn must be a nice thing, me i got too many kids. Ha Ha
As for the wbx engine it was yours that i was watching as it
accelerated past the family wagon, NICE. I at present with be happy to
get my Syncro on the blody road or off the road. Still waiting for
final prices but it is under 900Aus dollars from germany with all
fees, minus the possibility of something with customs.
I looked into the Go Westy option, incase my motor went Kaput and
was destroyed past help. But, and these guys do a great job the
dollars are at the extreme end of the scale, once u add freight back
and forth.
As Les suggested parts are then hard to chase and try to get the
warranty served if something goes wrong. The cost far outways the
loyality to something VW orientated.
Its the same story for all T3 enthuasists in Australia as if we had
someone that had the support of VW as a supplier then it may be a
different story. But at the present moment we, all T3 enthuasists do
the hard yards, when sourcing parts.
It will get easier, one day when Vw realises what they have as group
of supporters.
Andrew




--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <borzeken@...> wrote:
>
> Hi phil,
>
>
>
> I have some articles on my site <http://www.wbx6.com/> www.wbx6.com
on the
> oettinger but most of them are hard to read as they are copies, sorry.
>
> The VR6 friend is Jean Louis Brion, he had that engine in his Syncro
with
> galvanised body. At vanfest he sold the Syncro to a lady from the UK
>
> Normally the engine would produce 200hp, 170 was jean louis'
estimation as
> the exhaust was way shorter then in a car with the enginie up front. To
> regain that extra power he should have had the exhaust from the
south afrcan
> 2.5 audi engines adapted to the vr6. These go first a bit to the
front of
> the car and tehn come back to the rear.
>
>
>
> Mike
>
> _____
>
> Van: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] Namens plander@...
> Verzonden: zaterdag 10 februari 2007 8:48
> Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> CC: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Onderwerp: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] broken gearboxes, was : adding
> power
>
>
>
> Just a magazine article that I had said that they would only put them in
> automatics.
>
> Phill
>
> (Who was your friend with the imaculate VR6 syncro camper that I was
> speaking with at Vanfest?)
>
> > Mike <borzeken@telenet. <mailto:borzeken%40telenet.be> be> wrote:
> >
> > Nope, oettinger put them in syncro's as well. There's an oettinger
carat
> > Syncro for sale in germany, and I know another original one with
broken
> > engine in Holland (a club joker Syncro oettinger 3.2). Both are
the140HP
> > versions with the catalyctic convertor; I know of at least two factory
> > original 16" Syncro with the 140 hp 3.2 oettinger. I thought they
also
> > put
> > some 165 ph ones in syncro's but never the 3.7 oettinger with 180 hp.
> >
> >
> >
> > There is a limit somewhere but I have no idea where it is :-)
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike plompen
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > Van: Syncro_T3_Australia
<mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
<mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com] Namens
> > plander@optusnet. <mailto:plander%40optusnet.com.au> com.au
> > Verzonden: zaterdag 10 februari 2007 8:10
> > Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia
<mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com
> > CC: Syncro_T3_Australia <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com
> > Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] broken gearboxes, was : adding
> > power
> >
> >
> >
> > Oettinger would only put the WBX 6 with automatics.
> >
> > You are correct, I have not heard of any unusual problems with
VR6s. No
> > more
> > than the normal problems anyway. Although there must be a limit.
> >
> > > Mike <borzeken@telenet. <mailto:borzeken%40telenet.be> be> wrote:
> > >
> > > Back in time these guys knew how to tune an MV or DJ egnine and
they
> > > still
> > > do :
> > >
> > > http://www.schick- <http://www.schick-
<http://www.schick-tuning.de/>
> tuning.de/> tuning.de/
> > >
> > > choose T3 and scroll down to see some spectacular numbers.
> > >
> > > And about reaching the limit of a gearbox, one gets to that
limit much
> > > sooner with a TDI conversion then with petrol. A petrol engine
gives
> > it
> > > power a lot smoother. A Syncro VR6 with 170 hp did great without a
> > > stronger
> > > gearbox. The gearbox is said to be able to cope with 200Nm if
one puts
> >
> > > in SA
> > > oiling plates. I reckon it's a hell of a lot more. I heard
stories of
> > > Porsche 3200 engines in syncro's, Subaru svx or wrx engines with
200hp
> >
> > > and
> > > more,. none complaining about broken boxes. Or are these people shy
> > and
> > > don't want to tell it (as everyone has warned them they couldn't
do so
> > ?
> > > I
> > > only hear of problems with tdi's, and even then not about gearboxes
> > but
> > > about burned clutches.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > So I was wondering if anyone could share some experience with broken
> > > gearboxes due to adding power ?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > www.wbx6.com <http://www.wbx6. <http://www.wbx6.
<http://www.wbx6.com/>
> com/> com/>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > Van: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com] Namens
> > > plander@optusnet. <mailto:plander%40optusnet.com.au> com.au
> > > Verzonden: vrijdag 9 februari 2007 20:50
> > > Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com
> > > Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] adding power
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > How about using the MV engine with DJ pistons, ratio rockers and
maybe
> > a
> > > cam
> > > and chip?
> > > You would probably gain 20-30 hp which would be nearing the
limit of
> > the
> > > gearbox anyway.
> > > Phill
> > >
> > > > Mike <borzeken@telenet. <mailto:borzeken%40telenet.be> be> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi les,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Or when one wants more power but wants to keep it a volkswagen
and
> > not
> > > a
> > > > vw-subaru mixture one ha sfour options :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1)Add a turbo and intercooler, a german company does so (Schick),
> > > giving
> > > > the
> > > > DJ 163 hp and 280Nm torque, a south african company also did it
> > > > (turbovans I
> > > > think they were called).
> > > >
> > > > 2) Add a compressor (supercharger), e.g. from a new Mini, but
then
> > > start
> > > > from an MV engine or, when starting from the DJ bring down the
> > > > compression
> > > > ratio in the car first
> > > >
> > > > 3) Put in a 3.2 oettinger, it's basically the same as the DJ but
> > with
> > > > two
> > > > extra cylinders. (or the tuned version, the 3.7 oettinger
> > > >
> > > > 4) Last possibility, still VW original : put in an audi 2.5 or
2.6
> > > like
> > > > they
> > > > did in the T3's they build till about a year or two ago. They
also
> > > > stopped
> > > > production of the Syncro in 1992 so that only two syncro's came
> > > > originally
> > > > with this engine. But in the later T3's it became the standard
thus
> > > > replacing the waterboxer. There's an OEM bellhousing that
makes you
> > > bolt
> > > > the
> > > > audi engine right onto your gearbox
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > For those who also see their cars as collectors items,
changing it
> > > into
> > > > Subaru is not an option. It's also not that easy but I agree
it's a
> > > > great
> > > > engine. But the other options are often forgotten, don't know why
> > but
> > > > according to me they are the way to go
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _____
> > > >
> > > > Van: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > @yahoogroups.com
> > > > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > @yahoogroups.com] Namens Les Harris
> > > > Verzonden: donderdag 8 februari 2007 23:38
> > > > Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > @yahoogroups.com
> > > > Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: 4.86 ratio
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The 2.1 is no ball of fire but that's what most of us use.
There's
> > not
> > >
> > > > a
> > > > lot of point trying to up the power of it because the cost
benefit
> > > ratio
> > > > is
> > > > miniscule. The standard 2WD T3 has 4.86 and the Syncro runs quite
> > well
> > >
> > > > on
> > > > the same ratio. The wheel size comes into it, but it is the tyre
> > size
> > > > that
> > > > determines the revs per kilometre and in turn the distance
> > travelled,
> > > > not
> > > > the rim diameter on its own. You lose a bit of flexibility off
road,
> > > > particularly in the lower gears but it wouldn't bother a
competent
> > > > driver.
> > > > The 6+ ratios are strictly full time off road stuff. On normal
> > roads,
> > > > they
> > > > turn the Syncro into a mobile chicane. The Albins 3/4 gear set
is of
> > a
> > > > higher ratio - higher road speed per 1000 RPM.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If you want to significantly improve the power/torque, you should
> > > > consider
> > > > going Subaru, particularly the 2.5. It costs, but worth it in the
> > end.
> > > > Several members of this group have done it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Remember that you will have to get a 2WD T3 speedo if you
change the
> >
> > > > front
> > > > diff ratio.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Les
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >
> > > > From: syncrosity4now <mailto:syncrosity4now@
> > > <mailto:syncrosity4now%40yahoo.com.au> yahoo.com.au>
> > > >
> > > > To: Syncro_T3_Australia <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com> @yahoogroups.com>
> > > > @yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 10:59 PM
> > > >
> > > > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: 4.86 ratio
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes i am aware of all this to a certain point, as for
modifications
> > to
> > > > the enginre the only thig i may do at present is give throw on
some
> > > > 1.25 ratio rockers and a decent high flow cat and muffler
system oh
> > > > and som 4 prong spark plugs if i can find them(havent looked yet).
> > > > So as to the gearbox i am hoping by keeping it relatively
stock and
> > > > keep it standard except for maybe for a heavy duty 3rd 4th. And at
> > > > some stage a decent heavy duty diff set.
> > > > So by matching my gearbox ratios and tyres and keeping it
relatively
> > > > stock i seem to be making some headway and choosing the right
path.
> > My
> > > > motor is a 2.1ltr so i am fairly confident it will take the
load of
> > 15
> > > > inch tyres and a 4.86 diff ratio. Not really caring about top
speed
> > as
> > > > we all know it counts for nothing in the bush, so i am more so
going
> > > > for a finer balance.
> > > >
> > > > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > @yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <borzeken@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > .
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > <http://geo.yahoo.
> > > <http://geo.yahoo.
> > <http://geo.yahoo.
>
<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m>
> com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m
> > >
> > com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m
> > > >
> > > com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m
> > > > sgI
> > > > d=1366/stime=1170935991/nc1=3848610/nc2=4025325/nc3=3>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
29
Yeh Mike check your inbox for pricing...



--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <borzeken@...> wrote:
>
> Hi phil,
>
>
>
> I have some articles on my site <http://www.wbx6.com/> www.wbx6.com
on the
> oettinger but most of them are hard to read as they are copies, sorry.
>
> The VR6 friend is Jean Louis Brion, he had that engine in his Syncro
with
> galvanised body. At vanfest he sold the Syncro to a lady from the UK
>
> Normally the engine would produce 200hp, 170 was jean louis'
estimation as
> the exhaust was way shorter then in a car with the enginie up front. To
> regain that extra power he should have had the exhaust from the
south afrcan
> 2.5 audi engines adapted to the vr6. These go first a bit to the
front of
> the car and tehn come back to the rear.
>
>
>
> Mike
>
> _____
>
> Van: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] Namens plander@...
> Verzonden: zaterdag 10 februari 2007 8:48
> Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> CC: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Onderwerp: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] broken gearboxes, was : adding
> power
>
>
>
> Just a magazine article that I had said that they would only put them in
> automatics.
>
> Phill
>
> (Who was your friend with the imaculate VR6 syncro camper that I was
> speaking with at Vanfest?)
>
> > Mike <borzeken@telenet. <mailto:borzeken%40telenet.be> be> wrote:
> >
> > Nope, oettinger put them in syncro's as well. There's an oettinger
carat
> > Syncro for sale in germany, and I know another original one with
broken
> > engine in Holland (a club joker Syncro oettinger 3.2). Both are
the140HP
> > versions with the catalyctic convertor; I know of at least two factory
> > original 16" Syncro with the 140 hp 3.2 oettinger. I thought they
also
> > put
> > some 165 ph ones in syncro's but never the 3.7 oettinger with 180 hp.
> >
> >
> >
> > There is a limit somewhere but I have no idea where it is :-)
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike plompen
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > Van: Syncro_T3_Australia
<mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
<mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com] Namens
> > plander@optusnet. <mailto:plander%40optusnet.com.au> com.au
> > Verzonden: zaterdag 10 februari 2007 8:10
> > Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia
<mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com
> > CC: Syncro_T3_Australia <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com
> > Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] broken gearboxes, was : adding
> > power
> >
> >
> >
> > Oettinger would only put the WBX 6 with automatics.
> >
> > You are correct, I have not heard of any unusual problems with
VR6s. No
> > more
> > than the normal problems anyway. Although there must be a limit.
> >
> > > Mike <borzeken@telenet. <mailto:borzeken%40telenet.be> be> wrote:
> > >
> > > Back in time these guys knew how to tune an MV or DJ egnine and
they
> > > still
> > > do :
> > >
> > > http://www.schick- <http://www.schick-
<http://www.schick-tuning.de/>
> tuning.de/> tuning.de/
> > >
> > > choose T3 and scroll down to see some spectacular numbers.
> > >
> > > And about reaching the limit of a gearbox, one gets to that
limit much
> > > sooner with a TDI conversion then with petrol. A petrol engine
gives
> > it
> > > power a lot smoother. A Syncro VR6 with 170 hp did great without a
> > > stronger
> > > gearbox. The gearbox is said to be able to cope with 200Nm if
one puts
> >
> > > in SA
> > > oiling plates. I reckon it's a hell of a lot more. I heard
stories of
> > > Porsche 3200 engines in syncro's, Subaru svx or wrx engines with
200hp
> >
> > > and
> > > more,. none complaining about broken boxes. Or are these people shy
> > and
> > > don't want to tell it (as everyone has warned them they couldn't
do so
> > ?
> > > I
> > > only hear of problems with tdi's, and even then not about gearboxes
> > but
> > > about burned clutches.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > So I was wondering if anyone could share some experience with broken
> > > gearboxes due to adding power ?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > www.wbx6.com <http://www.wbx6. <http://www.wbx6.
<http://www.wbx6.com/>
> com/> com/>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > Van: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com] Namens
> > > plander@optusnet. <mailto:plander%40optusnet.com.au> com.au
> > > Verzonden: vrijdag 9 februari 2007 20:50
> > > Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com
> > > Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] adding power
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > How about using the MV engine with DJ pistons, ratio rockers and
maybe
> > a
> > > cam
> > > and chip?
> > > You would probably gain 20-30 hp which would be nearing the
limit of
> > the
> > > gearbox anyway.
> > > Phill
> > >
> > > > Mike <borzeken@telenet. <mailto:borzeken%40telenet.be> be> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi les,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Or when one wants more power but wants to keep it a volkswagen
and
> > not
> > > a
> > > > vw-subaru mixture one ha sfour options :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1)Add a turbo and intercooler, a german company does so (Schick),
> > > giving
> > > > the
> > > > DJ 163 hp and 280Nm torque, a south african company also did it
> > > > (turbovans I
> > > > think they were called).
> > > >
> > > > 2) Add a compressor (supercharger), e.g. from a new Mini, but
then
> > > start
> > > > from an MV engine or, when starting from the DJ bring down the
> > > > compression
> > > > ratio in the car first
> > > >
> > > > 3) Put in a 3.2 oettinger, it's basically the same as the DJ but
> > with
> > > > two
> > > > extra cylinders. (or the tuned version, the 3.7 oettinger
> > > >
> > > > 4) Last possibility, still VW original : put in an audi 2.5 or
2.6
> > > like
> > > > they
> > > > did in the T3's they build till about a year or two ago. They
also
> > > > stopped
> > > > production of the Syncro in 1992 so that only two syncro's came
> > > > originally
> > > > with this engine. But in the later T3's it became the standard
thus
> > > > replacing the waterboxer. There's an OEM bellhousing that
makes you
> > > bolt
> > > > the
> > > > audi engine right onto your gearbox
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > For those who also see their cars as collectors items,
changing it
> > > into
> > > > Subaru is not an option. It's also not that easy but I agree
it's a
> > > > great
> > > > engine. But the other options are often forgotten, don't know why
> > but
> > > > according to me they are the way to go
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _____
> > > >
> > > > Van: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > @yahoogroups.com
> > > > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > @yahoogroups.com] Namens Les Harris
> > > > Verzonden: donderdag 8 februari 2007 23:38
> > > > Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > @yahoogroups.com
> > > > Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: 4.86 ratio
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The 2.1 is no ball of fire but that's what most of us use.
There's
> > not
> > >
> > > > a
> > > > lot of point trying to up the power of it because the cost
benefit
> > > ratio
> > > > is
> > > > miniscule. The standard 2WD T3 has 4.86 and the Syncro runs quite
> > well
> > >
> > > > on
> > > > the same ratio. The wheel size comes into it, but it is the tyre
> > size
> > > > that
> > > > determines the revs per kilometre and in turn the distance
> > travelled,
> > > > not
> > > > the rim diameter on its own. You lose a bit of flexibility off
road,
> > > > particularly in the lower gears but it wouldn't bother a
competent
> > > > driver.
> > > > The 6+ ratios are strictly full time off road stuff. On normal
> > roads,
> > > > they
> > > > turn the Syncro into a mobile chicane. The Albins 3/4 gear set
is of
> > a
> > > > higher ratio - higher road speed per 1000 RPM.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If you want to significantly improve the power/torque, you should
> > > > consider
> > > > going Subaru, particularly the 2.5. It costs, but worth it in the
> > end.
> > > > Several members of this group have done it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Remember that you will have to get a 2WD T3 speedo if you
change the
> >
> > > > front
> > > > diff ratio.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Les
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >
> > > > From: syncrosity4now <mailto:syncrosity4now@
> > > <mailto:syncrosity4now%40yahoo.com.au> yahoo.com.au>
> > > >
> > > > To: Syncro_T3_Australia <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com> @yahoogroups.com>
> > > > @yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 10:59 PM
> > > >
> > > > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: 4.86 ratio
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes i am aware of all this to a certain point, as for
modifications
> > to
> > > > the enginre the only thig i may do at present is give throw on
some
> > > > 1.25 ratio rockers and a decent high flow cat and muffler
system oh
> > > > and som 4 prong spark plugs if i can find them(havent looked yet).
> > > > So as to the gearbox i am hoping by keeping it relatively
stock and
> > > > keep it standard except for maybe for a heavy duty 3rd 4th. And at
> > > > some stage a decent heavy duty diff set.
> > > > So by matching my gearbox ratios and tyres and keeping it
relatively
> > > > stock i seem to be making some headway and choosing the right
path.
> > My
> > > > motor is a 2.1ltr so i am fairly confident it will take the
load of
> > 15
> > > > inch tyres and a 4.86 diff ratio. Not really caring about top
speed
> > as
> > > > we all know it counts for nothing in the bush, so i am more so
going
> > > > for a finer balance.
> > > >
> > > > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > @yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <borzeken@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > .
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > <http://geo.yahoo.
> > > <http://geo.yahoo.
> > <http://geo.yahoo.
>
<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m>
> com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m
> > >
> > com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m
> > > >
> > > com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m
> > > > sgI
> > > > d=1366/stime=1170935991/nc1=3848610/nc2=4025325/nc3=3>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
30
Hi andrew,

It's groups like these that make our cars more affordable do drive. Being
great sources of knowledge it makes you help understanding the car so that
you don't depend on the judgement of the vw dealer. And we can help each
other for spare parts or for pointing out where one can buy parts way less
expensive then if you would have to buy it new from the dealer. Before there
was internet I think only the happy few with loads of money to burn like you
say could keep on paying the vw dealer prices and replace everything that
brakes by new OEM parts.
But now we've got several suppliers worldwide who sell rebuild vc's, new
decouplers, exhausts etc. I made a copy of the original vw jagdwagen
rollcage and if I have some spare money I'll have some sets of fibreglass
16" feder flare copies build. And there's lots of people worldwide offering
more stuff like lift kits, shocks that are better and cheaper then the
original ones, cv joints etc... This will only increase in the future I
think. Quite some body parts are already available as pirate copies (a bit
less quality then the original though). So although it's a problem that vw
won't keep on offering spare parts for everything, I'm sure that more and
more little companies and private persons worldwide will have parts copied,
so that we can keep our cars running. Les off course Is right that the best
think is to keep everything original if you want to be able to replace it
again once it brakes down.

Disadvantage of groups like these ... you talk to freaks all the time who
give you crazy ideas that you would have never thought of before :-)

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] Namens syncrosity4now
Verzonden: zaterdag 10 februari 2007 12:03
Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] broken gearboxes, was : adding power

Wow money to burn must be a nice thing, me i got too many kids. Ha Ha
As for the wbx engine it was yours that i was watching as it
accelerated past the family wagon, NICE. I at present with be happy to
get my Syncro on the blody road or off the road. Still waiting for
final prices but it is under 900Aus dollars from germany with all
fees, minus the possibility of something with customs.
I looked into the Go Westy option, incase my motor went Kaput and
was destroyed past help. But, and these guys do a great job the
dollars are at the extreme end of the scale, once u add freight back
and forth.
As Les suggested parts are then hard to chase and try to get the
warranty served if something goes wrong. The cost far outways the
loyality to something VW orientated.
Its the same story for all T3 enthuasists in Australia as if we had
someone that had the support of VW as a supplier then it may be a
different story. But at the present moment we, all T3 enthuasists do
the hard yards, when sourcing parts.
It will get easier, one day when Vw realises what they have as group
of supporters.
Andrew




--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <borzeken@...> wrote:
>
> Hi phil,
>
>
>
> I have some articles on my site <http://www.wbx6.com/> www.wbx6.com
on the
> oettinger but most of them are hard to read as they are copies, sorry.
>
> The VR6 friend is Jean Louis Brion, he had that engine in his Syncro
with
> galvanised body. At vanfest he sold the Syncro to a lady from the UK
>
> Normally the engine would produce 200hp, 170 was jean louis'
estimation as
> the exhaust was way shorter then in a car with the enginie up front. To
> regain that extra power he should have had the exhaust from the
south afrcan
> 2.5 audi engines adapted to the vr6. These go first a bit to the
front of
> the car and tehn come back to the rear.
>
>
>
> Mike
>
> _____
>
> Van: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] Namens plander@...
> Verzonden: zaterdag 10 februari 2007 8:48
> Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> CC: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Onderwerp: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] broken gearboxes, was : adding
> power
>
>
>
> Just a magazine article that I had said that they would only put them in
> automatics.
>
> Phill
>
> (Who was your friend with the imaculate VR6 syncro camper that I was
> speaking with at Vanfest?)
>
> > Mike <borzeken@telenet. <mailto:borzeken%40telenet.be> be> wrote:
> >
> > Nope, oettinger put them in syncro's as well. There's an oettinger
carat
> > Syncro for sale in germany, and I know another original one with
broken
> > engine in Holland (a club joker Syncro oettinger 3.2). Both are
the140HP
> > versions with the catalyctic convertor; I know of at least two factory
> > original 16" Syncro with the 140 hp 3.2 oettinger. I thought they
also
> > put
> > some 165 ph ones in syncro's but never the 3.7 oettinger with 180 hp.
> >
> >
> >
> > There is a limit somewhere but I have no idea where it is :-)
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike plompen
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > Van: Syncro_T3_Australia
<mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
<mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com] Namens
> > plander@optusnet. <mailto:plander%40optusnet.com.au> com.au
> > Verzonden: zaterdag 10 februari 2007 8:10
> > Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia
<mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com
> > CC: Syncro_T3_Australia <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com
> > Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] broken gearboxes, was : adding
> > power
> >
> >
> >
> > Oettinger would only put the WBX 6 with automatics.
> >
> > You are correct, I have not heard of any unusual problems with
VR6s. No
> > more
> > than the normal problems anyway. Although there must be a limit.
> >
> > > Mike <borzeken@telenet. <mailto:borzeken%40telenet.be> be> wrote:
> > >
> > > Back in time these guys knew how to tune an MV or DJ egnine and
they
> > > still
> > > do :
> > >
> > > http://www.schick- <http://www.schick-
<http://www.schick-tuning.de/>
> tuning.de/> tuning.de/
> > >
> > > choose T3 and scroll down to see some spectacular numbers.
> > >
> > > And about reaching the limit of a gearbox, one gets to that
limit much
> > > sooner with a TDI conversion then with petrol. A petrol engine
gives
> > it
> > > power a lot smoother. A Syncro VR6 with 170 hp did great without a
> > > stronger
> > > gearbox. The gearbox is said to be able to cope with 200Nm if
one puts
> >
> > > in SA
> > > oiling plates. I reckon it's a hell of a lot more. I heard
stories of
> > > Porsche 3200 engines in syncro's, Subaru svx or wrx engines with
200hp
> >
> > > and
> > > more,. none complaining about broken boxes. Or are these people shy
> > and
> > > don't want to tell it (as everyone has warned them they couldn't
do so
> > ?
> > > I
> > > only hear of problems with tdi's, and even then not about gearboxes
> > but
> > > about burned clutches.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > So I was wondering if anyone could share some experience with broken
> > > gearboxes due to adding power ?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > www.wbx6.com <http://www.wbx6. <http://www.wbx6.
<http://www.wbx6.com/>
> com/> com/>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > Van: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com] Namens
> > > plander@optusnet. <mailto:plander%40optusnet.com.au> com.au
> > > Verzonden: vrijdag 9 februari 2007 20:50
> > > Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com
> > > Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] adding power
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > How about using the MV engine with DJ pistons, ratio rockers and
maybe
> > a
> > > cam
> > > and chip?
> > > You would probably gain 20-30 hp which would be nearing the
limit of
> > the
> > > gearbox anyway.
> > > Phill
> > >
> > > > Mike <borzeken@telenet. <mailto:borzeken%40telenet.be> be> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi les,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Or when one wants more power but wants to keep it a volkswagen
and
> > not
> > > a
> > > > vw-subaru mixture one ha sfour options :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1)Add a turbo and intercooler, a german company does so (Schick),
> > > giving
> > > > the
> > > > DJ 163 hp and 280Nm torque, a south african company also did it
> > > > (turbovans I
> > > > think they were called).
> > > >
> > > > 2) Add a compressor (supercharger), e.g. from a new Mini, but
then
> > > start
> > > > from an MV engine or, when starting from the DJ bring down the
> > > > compression
> > > > ratio in the car first
> > > >
> > > > 3) Put in a 3.2 oettinger, it's basically the same as the DJ but
> > with
> > > > two
> > > > extra cylinders. (or the tuned version, the 3.7 oettinger
> > > >
> > > > 4) Last possibility, still VW original : put in an audi 2.5 or
2.6
> > > like
> > > > they
> > > > did in the T3's they build till about a year or two ago. They
also
> > > > stopped
> > > > production of the Syncro in 1992 so that only two syncro's came
> > > > originally
> > > > with this engine. But in the later T3's it became the standard
thus
> > > > replacing the waterboxer. There's an OEM bellhousing that
makes you
> > > bolt
> > > > the
> > > > audi engine right onto your gearbox
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > For those who also see their cars as collectors items,
changing it
> > > into
> > > > Subaru is not an option. It's also not that easy but I agree
it's a
> > > > great
> > > > engine. But the other options are often forgotten, don't know why
> > but
> > > > according to me they are the way to go
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _____
> > > >
> > > > Van: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > @yahoogroups.com
> > > > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > @yahoogroups.com] Namens Les Harris
> > > > Verzonden: donderdag 8 februari 2007 23:38
> > > > Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > @yahoogroups.com
> > > > Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: 4.86 ratio
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The 2.1 is no ball of fire but that's what most of us use.
There's
> > not
> > >
> > > > a
> > > > lot of point trying to up the power of it because the cost
benefit
> > > ratio
> > > > is
> > > > miniscule. The standard 2WD T3 has 4.86 and the Syncro runs quite
> > well
> > >
> > > > on
> > > > the same ratio. The wheel size comes into it, but it is the tyre
> > size
> > > > that
> > > > determines the revs per kilometre and in turn the distance
> > travelled,
> > > > not
> > > > the rim diameter on its own. You lose a bit of flexibility off
road,
> > > > particularly in the lower gears but it wouldn't bother a
competent
> > > > driver.
> > > > The 6+ ratios are strictly full time off road stuff. On normal
> > roads,
> > > > they
> > > > turn the Syncro into a mobile chicane. The Albins 3/4 gear set
is of
> > a
> > > > higher ratio - higher road speed per 1000 RPM.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If you want to significantly improve the power/torque, you should
> > > > consider
> > > > going Subaru, particularly the 2.5. It costs, but worth it in the
> > end.
> > > > Several members of this group have done it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Remember that you will have to get a 2WD T3 speedo if you
change the
> >
> > > > front
> > > > diff ratio.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Les
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >
> > > > From: syncrosity4now <mailto:syncrosity4now@
> > > <mailto:syncrosity4now%40yahoo.com.au> yahoo.com.au>
> > > >
> > > > To: Syncro_T3_Australia <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com> @yahoogroups.com>
> > > > @yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 10:59 PM
> > > >
> > > > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: 4.86 ratio
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes i am aware of all this to a certain point, as for
modifications
> > to
> > > > the enginre the only thig i may do at present is give throw on
some
> > > > 1.25 ratio rockers and a decent high flow cat and muffler
system oh
> > > > and som 4 prong spark plugs if i can find them(havent looked yet).
> > > > So as to the gearbox i am hoping by keeping it relatively
stock and
> > > > keep it standard except for maybe for a heavy duty 3rd 4th. And at
> > > > some stage a decent heavy duty diff set.
> > > > So by matching my gearbox ratios and tyres and keeping it
relatively
> > > > stock i seem to be making some headway and choosing the right
path.
> > My
> > > > motor is a 2.1ltr so i am fairly confident it will take the
load of
> > 15
> > > > inch tyres and a 4.86 diff ratio. Not really caring about top
speed
> > as
> > > > we all know it counts for nothing in the bush, so i am more so
going
> > > > for a finer balance.
> > > >
> > > > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > @yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <borzeken@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > .
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > <http://geo.yahoo.
> > > <http://geo.yahoo.
> > <http://geo.yahoo.
>
<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m>
> com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m
> > >
> > com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m
> > > >
> > > com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m
> > > > sgI
> > > > d=1366/stime=1170935991/nc1=3848610/nc2=4025325/nc3=3>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>





Yahoo! Groups Links
31
Yeh, it's all good....
Everybody has an opinion and thats where most of the dribble gets
sorted from the crap.
Andrew




--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <borzeken@...> wrote:
>
> Hi andrew,
>
> It's groups like these that make our cars more affordable do drive.
Being
> great sources of knowledge it makes you help understanding the car
so that
> you don't depend on the judgement of the vw dealer. And we can help each
> other for spare parts or for pointing out where one can buy parts
way less
> expensive then if you would have to buy it new from the dealer.
Before there
> was internet I think only the happy few with loads of money to burn
like you
> say could keep on paying the vw dealer prices and replace everything
that
> brakes by new OEM parts.
> But now we've got several suppliers worldwide who sell rebuild vc's, new
> decouplers, exhausts etc. I made a copy of the original vw jagdwagen
> rollcage and if I have some spare money I'll have some sets of
fibreglass
> 16" feder flare copies build. And there's lots of people worldwide
offering
> more stuff like lift kits, shocks that are better and cheaper then the
> original ones, cv joints etc... This will only increase in the future I
> think. Quite some body parts are already available as pirate copies
(a bit
> less quality then the original though). So although it's a problem
that vw
> won't keep on offering spare parts for everything, I'm sure that
more and
> more little companies and private persons worldwide will have parts
copied,
> so that we can keep our cars running. Les off course Is right that
the best
> think is to keep everything original if you want to be able to
replace it
> again once it brakes down.
>
> Disadvantage of groups like these ... you talk to freaks all the
time who
> give you crazy ideas that you would have never thought of before :-)
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] Namens syncrosity4now
> Verzonden: zaterdag 10 februari 2007 12:03
> Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] broken gearboxes, was : adding
power
>
> Wow money to burn must be a nice thing, me i got too many kids. Ha Ha
> As for the wbx engine it was yours that i was watching as it
> accelerated past the family wagon, NICE. I at present with be happy to
> get my Syncro on the blody road or off the road. Still waiting for
> final prices but it is under 900Aus dollars from germany with all
> fees, minus the possibility of something with customs.
> I looked into the Go Westy option, incase my motor went Kaput and
> was destroyed past help. But, and these guys do a great job the
> dollars are at the extreme end of the scale, once u add freight back
> and forth.
> As Les suggested parts are then hard to chase and try to get the
> warranty served if something goes wrong. The cost far outways the
> loyality to something VW orientated.
> Its the same story for all T3 enthuasists in Australia as if we had
> someone that had the support of VW as a supplier then it may be a
> different story. But at the present moment we, all T3 enthuasists do
> the hard yards, when sourcing parts.
> It will get easier, one day when Vw realises what they have as group
> of supporters.
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <borzeken@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi phil,
> >
> >
> >
> > I have some articles on my site <http://www.wbx6.com/> www.wbx6.com
> on the
> > oettinger but most of them are hard to read as they are copies,
sorry.
> >
> > The VR6 friend is Jean Louis Brion, he had that engine in his Syncro
> with
> > galvanised body. At vanfest he sold the Syncro to a lady from the UK
> >
> > Normally the engine would produce 200hp, 170 was jean louis'
> estimation as
> > the exhaust was way shorter then in a car with the enginie up
front. To
> > regain that extra power he should have had the exhaust from the
> south afrcan
> > 2.5 audi engines adapted to the vr6. These go first a bit to the
> front of
> > the car and tehn come back to the rear.
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > _____
> >
> > Van: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] Namens plander@
> > Verzonden: zaterdag 10 februari 2007 8:48
> > Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > CC: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > Onderwerp: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] broken gearboxes, was :
adding
> > power
> >
> >
> >
> > Just a magazine article that I had said that they would only put
them in
> > automatics.
> >
> > Phill
> >
> > (Who was your friend with the imaculate VR6 syncro camper that I was
> > speaking with at Vanfest?)
> >
> > > Mike <borzeken@telenet. <mailto:borzeken%40telenet.be> be> wrote:
> > >
> > > Nope, oettinger put them in syncro's as well. There's an oettinger
> carat
> > > Syncro for sale in germany, and I know another original one with
> broken
> > > engine in Holland (a club joker Syncro oettinger 3.2). Both are
> the140HP
> > > versions with the catalyctic convertor; I know of at least two
factory
> > > original 16" Syncro with the 140 hp 3.2 oettinger. I thought they
> also
> > > put
> > > some 165 ph ones in syncro's but never the 3.7 oettinger with
180 hp.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > There is a limit somewhere but I have no idea where it is :-)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike plompen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > Van: Syncro_T3_Australia
> <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com] Namens
> > > plander@optusnet. <mailto:plander%40optusnet.com.au> com.au
> > > Verzonden: zaterdag 10 februari 2007 8:10
> > > Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia
> <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com
> > > CC: Syncro_T3_Australia
<mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com
> > > Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] broken gearboxes, was : adding
> > > power
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Oettinger would only put the WBX 6 with automatics.
> > >
> > > You are correct, I have not heard of any unusual problems with
> VR6s. No
> > > more
> > > than the normal problems anyway. Although there must be a limit.
> > >
> > > > Mike <borzeken@telenet. <mailto:borzeken%40telenet.be> be> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Back in time these guys knew how to tune an MV or DJ egnine and
> they
> > > > still
> > > > do :
> > > >
> > > > http://www.schick- <http://www.schick-
> <http://www.schick-tuning.de/>
> > tuning.de/> tuning.de/
> > > >
> > > > choose T3 and scroll down to see some spectacular numbers.
> > > >
> > > > And about reaching the limit of a gearbox, one gets to that
> limit much
> > > > sooner with a TDI conversion then with petrol. A petrol engine
> gives
> > > it
> > > > power a lot smoother. A Syncro VR6 with 170 hp did great
without a
> > > > stronger
> > > > gearbox. The gearbox is said to be able to cope with 200Nm if
> one puts
> > >
> > > > in SA
> > > > oiling plates. I reckon it's a hell of a lot more. I heard
> stories of
> > > > Porsche 3200 engines in syncro's, Subaru svx or wrx engines with
> 200hp
> > >
> > > > and
> > > > more,. none complaining about broken boxes. Or are these
people shy
> > > and
> > > > don't want to tell it (as everyone has warned them they couldn't
> do so
> > > ?
> > > > I
> > > > only hear of problems with tdi's, and even then not about
gearboxes
> > > but
> > > > about burned clutches.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So I was wondering if anyone could share some experience with
broken
> > > > gearboxes due to adding power ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > www.wbx6.com <http://www.wbx6. <http://www.wbx6.
> <http://www.wbx6.com/>
> > com/> com/>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _____
> > > >
> > > > Van: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > @yahoogroups.com
> > > > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > @yahoogroups.com] Namens
> > > > plander@optusnet. <mailto:plander%40optusnet.com.au> com.au
> > > > Verzonden: vrijdag 9 februari 2007 20:50
> > > > Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > @yahoogroups.com
> > > > Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] adding power
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > How about using the MV engine with DJ pistons, ratio rockers and
> maybe
> > > a
> > > > cam
> > > > and chip?
> > > > You would probably gain 20-30 hp which would be nearing the
> limit of
> > > the
> > > > gearbox anyway.
> > > > Phill
> > > >
> > > > > Mike <borzeken@telenet. <mailto:borzeken%40telenet.be> be>
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi les,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Or when one wants more power but wants to keep it a volkswagen
> and
> > > not
> > > > a
> > > > > vw-subaru mixture one ha sfour options :
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1)Add a turbo and intercooler, a german company does so
(Schick),
> > > > giving
> > > > > the
> > > > > DJ 163 hp and 280Nm torque, a south african company also did it
> > > > > (turbovans I
> > > > > think they were called).
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) Add a compressor (supercharger), e.g. from a new Mini, but
> then
> > > > start
> > > > > from an MV engine or, when starting from the DJ bring down the
> > > > > compression
> > > > > ratio in the car first
> > > > >
> > > > > 3) Put in a 3.2 oettinger, it's basically the same as the DJ
but
> > > with
> > > > > two
> > > > > extra cylinders. (or the tuned version, the 3.7 oettinger
> > > > >
> > > > > 4) Last possibility, still VW original : put in an audi 2.5 or
> 2.6
> > > > like
> > > > > they
> > > > > did in the T3's they build till about a year or two ago. They
> also
> > > > > stopped
> > > > > production of the Syncro in 1992 so that only two syncro's came
> > > > > originally
> > > > > with this engine. But in the later T3's it became the standard
> thus
> > > > > replacing the waterboxer. There's an OEM bellhousing that
> makes you
> > > > bolt
> > > > > the
> > > > > audi engine right onto your gearbox
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > For those who also see their cars as collectors items,
> changing it
> > > > into
> > > > > Subaru is not an option. It's also not that easy but I agree
> it's a
> > > > > great
> > > > > engine. But the other options are often forgotten, don't
know why
> > > but
> > > > > according to me they are the way to go
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _____
> > > > >
> > > > > Van: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > @yahoogroups.com
> > > > > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > @yahoogroups.com] Namens Les Harris
> > > > > Verzonden: donderdag 8 februari 2007 23:38
> > > > > Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > @yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: 4.86 ratio
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The 2.1 is no ball of fire but that's what most of us use.
> There's
> > > not
> > > >
> > > > > a
> > > > > lot of point trying to up the power of it because the cost
> benefit
> > > > ratio
> > > > > is
> > > > > miniscule. The standard 2WD T3 has 4.86 and the Syncro runs
quite
> > > well
> > > >
> > > > > on
> > > > > the same ratio. The wheel size comes into it, but it is the
tyre
> > > size
> > > > > that
> > > > > determines the revs per kilometre and in turn the distance
> > > travelled,
> > > > > not
> > > > > the rim diameter on its own. You lose a bit of flexibility off
> road,
> > > > > particularly in the lower gears but it wouldn't bother a
> competent
> > > > > driver.
> > > > > The 6+ ratios are strictly full time off road stuff. On normal
> > > roads,
> > > > > they
> > > > > turn the Syncro into a mobile chicane. The Albins 3/4 gear set
> is of
> > > a
> > > > > higher ratio - higher road speed per 1000 RPM.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If you want to significantly improve the power/torque, you
should
> > > > > consider
> > > > > going Subaru, particularly the 2.5. It costs, but worth it
in the
> > > end.
> > > > > Several members of this group have done it.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Remember that you will have to get a 2WD T3 speedo if you
> change the
> > >
> > > > > front
> > > > > diff ratio.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Les
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >
> > > > > From: syncrosity4now <mailto:syncrosity4now@
> > > > <mailto:syncrosity4now%40yahoo.com.au> yahoo.com.au>
> > > > >
> > > > > To: Syncro_T3_Australia <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com> @yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > @yahoogroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 10:59 PM
> > > > >
> > > > > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: 4.86 ratio
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes i am aware of all this to a certain point, as for
> modifications
> > > to
> > > > > the enginre the only thig i may do at present is give throw on
> some
> > > > > 1.25 ratio rockers and a decent high flow cat and muffler
> system oh
> > > > > and som 4 prong spark plugs if i can find them(havent looked
yet).
> > > > > So as to the gearbox i am hoping by keeping it relatively
> stock and
> > > > > keep it standard except for maybe for a heavy duty 3rd 4th.
And at
> > > > > some stage a decent heavy duty diff set.
> > > > > So by matching my gearbox ratios and tyres and keeping it
> relatively
> > > > > stock i seem to be making some headway and choosing the right
> path.
> > > My
> > > > > motor is a 2.1ltr so i am fairly confident it will take the
> load of
> > > 15
> > > > > inch tyres and a 4.86 diff ratio. Not really caring about top
> speed
> > > as
> > > > > we all know it counts for nothing in the bush, so i am more so
> going
> > > > > for a finer balance.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > @yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <borzeken@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > .
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > <http://geo.yahoo.
> > > > <http://geo.yahoo.
> > > <http://geo.yahoo.
> >
>
<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m>
> > com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m
> > > >
> > > com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m
> > > > >
> > > > com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m
> > > > > sgI
> > > > > d=1366/stime=1170935991/nc1=3848610/nc2=4025325/nc3=3>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
32
Yes it is hard to read and my German is not good. The part about the syncro appears to only mention the 2,5, but I am not sure.

I will have a look through my boxes of syncro stuff and see what I can find.

There were many 2,5 conversions done in Australia but I do not know what happened to them. There is one WBX6 here also. The 2,5 conversions were not done very well here as the heads had to be machined to suit 95 octane fuel which was the best available here at the time and the vans could not refuel outside of the capital cities where only 91 was available.

Phill



> Mike <borzeken@telenet.be> wrote:
>
> Hi phil,
>
>
>
> I have some articles on my site <http://www.wbx6.com/> www.wbx6.com on
> the
> oettinger but most of them are hard to read as they are copies, sorry.
>
> The VR6 friend is Jean Louis Brion, he had that engine in his Syncro
> with
> galvanised body. At vanfest he sold the Syncro to a lady from the UK
>
> Normally the engine would produce 200hp, 170 was jean louis' estimation
> as
> the exhaust was way shorter then in a car with the enginie up front. To
> regain that extra power he should have had the exhaust from the south
> afrcan
> 2.5 audi engines adapted to the vr6. These go first a bit to the front
> of
> the car and tehn come back to the rear.
>
>
>
> Mike
>
> _____
>
> Van: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] Namens
> plander@optusnet.com.au
> Verzonden: zaterdag 10 februari 2007 8:48
> Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> CC: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Onderwerp: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] broken gearboxes, was : adding
> power
>
>
>
> Just a magazine article that I had said that they would only put them in
> automatics.
>
> Phill
>
> (Who was your friend with the imaculate VR6 syncro camper that I was
> speaking with at Vanfest?)
>
> > Mike <borzeken@telenet. <mailto:borzeken%40telenet.be> be> wrote:
> >
> > Nope, oettinger put them in syncro's as well. There's an oettinger
> carat
> > Syncro for sale in germany, and I know another original one with
> broken
> > engine in Holland (a club joker Syncro oettinger 3.2). Both are
> the140HP
> > versions with the catalyctic convertor; I know of at least two factory
> > original 16" Syncro with the 140 hp 3.2 oettinger. I thought they also
>
> > put
> > some 165 ph ones in syncro's but never the 3.7 oettinger with 180 hp.
> >
> >
> >
> > There is a limit somewhere but I have no idea where it is :-)
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike plompen
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > Van: Syncro_T3_Australia
> <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com] Namens
> > plander@optusnet. <mailto:plander%40optusnet.com.au> com.au
> > Verzonden: zaterdag 10 februari 2007 8:10
> > Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia
> <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com
> > CC: Syncro_T3_Australia <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com
> > Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] broken gearboxes, was : adding
> > power
> >
> >
> >
> > Oettinger would only put the WBX 6 with automatics.
> >
> > You are correct, I have not heard of any unusual problems with VR6s.
> No
> > more
> > than the normal problems anyway. Although there must be a limit.
> >
> > > Mike <borzeken@telenet. <mailto:borzeken%40telenet.be> be> wrote:
> > >
> > > Back in time these guys knew how to tune an MV or DJ egnine and they
>
> > > still
> > > do :
> > >
> > > http://www.schick- <http://www.schick-
> <http://www.schick-tuning.de/>
> tuning.de/> tuning.de/
> > >
> > > choose T3 and scroll down to see some spectacular numbers.
> > >
> > > And about reaching the limit of a gearbox, one gets to that limit
> much
> > > sooner with a TDI conversion then with petrol. A petrol engine gives
>
> > it
> > > power a lot smoother. A Syncro VR6 with 170 hp did great without a
> > > stronger
> > > gearbox. The gearbox is said to be able to cope with 200Nm if one
> puts
> >
> > > in SA
> > > oiling plates. I reckon it's a hell of a lot more. I heard stories
> of
> > > Porsche 3200 engines in syncro's, Subaru svx or wrx engines with
> 200hp
> >
> > > and
> > > more,. none complaining about broken boxes. Or are these people shy
> > and
> > > don't want to tell it (as everyone has warned them they couldn't do
> so
> > ?
> > > I
> > > only hear of problems with tdi's, and even then not about gearboxes
> > but
> > > about burned clutches.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > So I was wondering if anyone could share some experience with broken
> > > gearboxes due to adding power ?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > www.wbx6.com <http://www.wbx6. <http://www.wbx6.
> <http://www.wbx6.com/>
> com/> com/>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > Van: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com] Namens
> > > plander@optusnet. <mailto:plander%40optusnet.com.au> com.au
> > > Verzonden: vrijdag 9 februari 2007 20:50
> > > Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com
> > > Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] adding power
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > How about using the MV engine with DJ pistons, ratio rockers and
> maybe
> > a
> > > cam
> > > and chip?
> > > You would probably gain 20-30 hp which would be nearing the limit of
>
> > the
> > > gearbox anyway.
> > > Phill
> > >
> > > > Mike <borzeken@telenet. <mailto:borzeken%40telenet.be> be> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi les,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Or when one wants more power but wants to keep it a volkswagen and
>
> > not
> > > a
> > > > vw-subaru mixture one ha sfour options :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1)Add a turbo and intercooler, a german company does so (Schick),
> > > giving
> > > > the
> > > > DJ 163 hp and 280Nm torque, a south african company also did it
> > > > (turbovans I
> > > > think they were called).
> > > >
> > > > 2) Add a compressor (supercharger), e.g. from a new Mini, but then
>
> > > start
> > > > from an MV engine or, when starting from the DJ bring down the
> > > > compression
> > > > ratio in the car first
> > > >
> > > > 3) Put in a 3.2 oettinger, it's basically the same as the DJ but
> > with
> > > > two
> > > > extra cylinders. (or the tuned version, the 3.7 oettinger
> > > >
> > > > 4) Last possibility, still VW original : put in an audi 2.5 or 2.6
>
> > > like
> > > > they
> > > > did in the T3's they build till about a year or two ago. They also
>
> > > > stopped
> > > > production of the Syncro in 1992 so that only two syncro's came
> > > > originally
> > > > with this engine. But in the later T3's it became the standard
> thus
> > > > replacing the waterboxer. There's an OEM bellhousing that makes
> you
> > > bolt
> > > > the
> > > > audi engine right onto your gearbox
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > For those who also see their cars as collectors items, changing it
>
> > > into
> > > > Subaru is not an option. It's also not that easy but I agree it's
> a
> > > > great
> > > > engine. But the other options are often forgotten, don't know why
> > but
> > > > according to me they are the way to go
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _____
> > > >
> > > > Van: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > @yahoogroups.com
> > > > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > @yahoogroups.com] Namens Les Harris
> > > > Verzonden: donderdag 8 februari 2007 23:38
> > > > Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > @yahoogroups.com
> > > > Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: 4.86 ratio
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The 2.1 is no ball of fire but that's what most of us use. There's
>
> > not
> > >
> > > > a
> > > > lot of point trying to up the power of it because the cost benefit
>
> > > ratio
> > > > is
> > > > miniscule. The standard 2WD T3 has 4.86 and the Syncro runs quite
> > well
> > >
> > > > on
> > > > the same ratio. The wheel size comes into it, but it is the tyre
> > size
> > > > that
> > > > determines the revs per kilometre and in turn the distance
> > travelled,
> > > > not
> > > > the rim diameter on its own. You lose a bit of flexibility off
> road,
> > > > particularly in the lower gears but it wouldn't bother a competent
>
> > > > driver.
> > > > The 6+ ratios are strictly full time off road stuff. On normal
> > roads,
> > > > they
> > > > turn the Syncro into a mobile chicane. The Albins 3/4 gear set is
> of
> > a
> > > > higher ratio - higher road speed per 1000 RPM.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If you want to significantly improve the power/torque, you should
> > > > consider
> > > > going Subaru, particularly the 2.5. It costs, but worth it in the
> > end.
> > > > Several members of this group have done it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Remember that you will have to get a 2WD T3 speedo if you change
> the
> >
> > > > front
> > > > diff ratio.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Les
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >
> > > > From: syncrosity4now <mailto:syncrosity4now@
> > > <mailto:syncrosity4now%40yahoo.com.au> yahoo.com.au>
> > > >
> > > > To: Syncro_T3_Australia <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com> @yahoogroups.com>
> > > > @yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 10:59 PM
> > > >
> > > > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: 4.86 ratio
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes i am aware of all this to a certain point, as for
> modifications
> > to
> > > > the enginre the only thig i may do at present is give throw on
> some
> > > > 1.25 ratio rockers and a decent high flow cat and muffler system
> oh
> > > > and som 4 prong spark plugs if i can find them(havent looked yet).
> > > > So as to the gearbox i am hoping by keeping it relatively stock
> and
> > > > keep it standard except for maybe for a heavy duty 3rd 4th. And at
> > > > some stage a decent heavy duty diff set.
> > > > So by matching my gearbox ratios and tyres and keeping it
> relatively
> > > > stock i seem to be making some headway and choosing the right
> path.
> > My
> > > > motor is a 2.1ltr so i am fairly confident it will take the load
> of
> > 15
> > > > inch tyres and a 4.86 diff ratio. Not really caring about top
> speed
> > as
> > > > we all know it counts for nothing in the bush, so i am more so
> going
> > > > for a finer balance.
> > > >
> > > > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > @yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <borzeken@...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > .
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > <http://geo.yahoo.
> > > <http://geo.yahoo.
> > <http://geo.yahoo.
> <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m
> >
> com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m
> > >
> > com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m
> > > >
> > > com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m
> > > > sgI
> > > > d=1366/stime=1170935991/nc1=3848610/nc2=4025325/nc3=3>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
33
Does anyone still do the 2.5 ltr work and who/where???





--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
>
> Yes it is hard to read and my German is not good. The part about the
syncro appears to only mention the 2,5, but I am not sure.
>
> I will have a look through my boxes of syncro stuff and see what I
can find.
>
> There were many 2,5 conversions done in Australia but I do not know
what happened to them. There is one WBX6 here also. The 2,5
conversions were not done very well here as the heads had to be
machined to suit 95 octane fuel which was the best available here at
the time and the vans could not refuel outside of the capital cities
where only 91 was available.
>
> Phill
>
>
>
> > Mike <borzeken@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi phil,
> >
> >
> >
> > I have some articles on my site <http://www.wbx6.com/>
www.wbx6.com on
> > the
> > oettinger but most of them are hard to read as they are copies,
sorry.
> >
> > The VR6 friend is Jean Louis Brion, he had that engine in his Syncro
> > with
> > galvanised body. At vanfest he sold the Syncro to a lady from the UK
> >
> > Normally the engine would produce 200hp, 170 was jean louis'
estimation
> > as
> > the exhaust was way shorter then in a car with the enginie up
front. To
> > regain that extra power he should have had the exhaust from the south
> > afrcan
> > 2.5 audi engines adapted to the vr6. These go first a bit to the
front
> > of
> > the car and tehn come back to the rear.
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > _____
> >
> > Van: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] Namens
> > plander@...
> > Verzonden: zaterdag 10 februari 2007 8:48
> > Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > CC: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > Onderwerp: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] broken gearboxes, was :
adding
> > power
> >
> >
> >
> > Just a magazine article that I had said that they would only put
them in
> > automatics.
> >
> > Phill
> >
> > (Who was your friend with the imaculate VR6 syncro camper that I was
> > speaking with at Vanfest?)
> >
> > > Mike <borzeken@telenet. <mailto:borzeken%40telenet.be> be> wrote:
> > >
> > > Nope, oettinger put them in syncro's as well. There's an oettinger
> > carat
> > > Syncro for sale in germany, and I know another original one with
> > broken
> > > engine in Holland (a club joker Syncro oettinger 3.2). Both are
> > the140HP
> > > versions with the catalyctic convertor; I know of at least two
factory
> > > original 16" Syncro with the 140 hp 3.2 oettinger. I thought
they also
> >
> > > put
> > > some 165 ph ones in syncro's but never the 3.7 oettinger with
180 hp.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > There is a limit somewhere but I have no idea where it is :-)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike plompen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > Van: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com] Namens
> > > plander@optusnet. <mailto:plander%40optusnet.com.au> com.au
> > > Verzonden: zaterdag 10 februari 2007 8:10
> > > Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com
> > > CC: Syncro_T3_Australia
<mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com
> > > Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] broken gearboxes, was : adding
> > > power
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Oettinger would only put the WBX 6 with automatics.
> > >
> > > You are correct, I have not heard of any unusual problems with
VR6s.
> > No
> > > more
> > > than the normal problems anyway. Although there must be a limit.
> > >
> > > > Mike <borzeken@telenet. <mailto:borzeken%40telenet.be> be> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Back in time these guys knew how to tune an MV or DJ egnine
and they
> >
> > > > still
> > > > do :
> > > >
> > > > http://www.schick- <http://www.schick-
> > <http://www.schick-tuning.de/>
> > tuning.de/> tuning.de/
> > > >
> > > > choose T3 and scroll down to see some spectacular numbers.
> > > >
> > > > And about reaching the limit of a gearbox, one gets to that limit
> > much
> > > > sooner with a TDI conversion then with petrol. A petrol engine
gives
> >
> > > it
> > > > power a lot smoother. A Syncro VR6 with 170 hp did great
without a
> > > > stronger
> > > > gearbox. The gearbox is said to be able to cope with 200Nm if one
> > puts
> > >
> > > > in SA
> > > > oiling plates. I reckon it's a hell of a lot more. I heard
stories
> > of
> > > > Porsche 3200 engines in syncro's, Subaru svx or wrx engines with
> > 200hp
> > >
> > > > and
> > > > more,. none complaining about broken boxes. Or are these
people shy
> > > and
> > > > don't want to tell it (as everyone has warned them they
couldn't do
> > so
> > > ?
> > > > I
> > > > only hear of problems with tdi's, and even then not about
gearboxes
> > > but
> > > > about burned clutches.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So I was wondering if anyone could share some experience with
broken
> > > > gearboxes due to adding power ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > www.wbx6.com <http://www.wbx6. <http://www.wbx6.
> > <http://www.wbx6.com/>
> > com/> com/>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _____
> > > >
> > > > Van: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > @yahoogroups.com
> > > > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > @yahoogroups.com] Namens
> > > > plander@optusnet. <mailto:plander%40optusnet.com.au> com.au
> > > > Verzonden: vrijdag 9 februari 2007 20:50
> > > > Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > @yahoogroups.com
> > > > Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] adding power
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > How about using the MV engine with DJ pistons, ratio rockers and
> > maybe
> > > a
> > > > cam
> > > > and chip?
> > > > You would probably gain 20-30 hp which would be nearing the
limit of
> >
> > > the
> > > > gearbox anyway.
> > > > Phill
> > > >
> > > > > Mike <borzeken@telenet. <mailto:borzeken%40telenet.be> be>
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi les,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Or when one wants more power but wants to keep it a
volkswagen and
> >
> > > not
> > > > a
> > > > > vw-subaru mixture one ha sfour options :
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1)Add a turbo and intercooler, a german company does so
(Schick),
> > > > giving
> > > > > the
> > > > > DJ 163 hp and 280Nm torque, a south african company also did it
> > > > > (turbovans I
> > > > > think they were called).
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) Add a compressor (supercharger), e.g. from a new Mini,
but then
> >
> > > > start
> > > > > from an MV engine or, when starting from the DJ bring down the
> > > > > compression
> > > > > ratio in the car first
> > > > >
> > > > > 3) Put in a 3.2 oettinger, it's basically the same as the DJ
but
> > > with
> > > > > two
> > > > > extra cylinders. (or the tuned version, the 3.7 oettinger
> > > > >
> > > > > 4) Last possibility, still VW original : put in an audi 2.5
or 2.6
> >
> > > > like
> > > > > they
> > > > > did in the T3's they build till about a year or two ago.
They also
> >
> > > > > stopped
> > > > > production of the Syncro in 1992 so that only two syncro's came
> > > > > originally
> > > > > with this engine. But in the later T3's it became the standard
> > thus
> > > > > replacing the waterboxer. There's an OEM bellhousing that makes
> > you
> > > > bolt
> > > > > the
> > > > > audi engine right onto your gearbox
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > For those who also see their cars as collectors items,
changing it
> >
> > > > into
> > > > > Subaru is not an option. It's also not that easy but I agree
it's
> > a
> > > > > great
> > > > > engine. But the other options are often forgotten, don't
know why
> > > but
> > > > > according to me they are the way to go
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _____
> > > > >
> > > > > Van: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > @yahoogroups.com
> > > > > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > @yahoogroups.com] Namens Les Harris
> > > > > Verzonden: donderdag 8 februari 2007 23:38
> > > > > Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > @yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Onderwerp: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: 4.86 ratio
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The 2.1 is no ball of fire but that's what most of us use.
There's
> >
> > > not
> > > >
> > > > > a
> > > > > lot of point trying to up the power of it because the cost
benefit
> >
> > > > ratio
> > > > > is
> > > > > miniscule. The standard 2WD T3 has 4.86 and the Syncro runs
quite
> > > well
> > > >
> > > > > on
> > > > > the same ratio. The wheel size comes into it, but it is the
tyre
> > > size
> > > > > that
> > > > > determines the revs per kilometre and in turn the distance
> > > travelled,
> > > > > not
> > > > > the rim diameter on its own. You lose a bit of flexibility off
> > road,
> > > > > particularly in the lower gears but it wouldn't bother a
competent
> >
> > > > > driver.
> > > > > The 6+ ratios are strictly full time off road stuff. On normal
> > > roads,
> > > > > they
> > > > > turn the Syncro into a mobile chicane. The Albins 3/4 gear
set is
> > of
> > > a
> > > > > higher ratio - higher road speed per 1000 RPM.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If you want to significantly improve the power/torque, you
should
> > > > > consider
> > > > > going Subaru, particularly the 2.5. It costs, but worth it
in the
> > > end.
> > > > > Several members of this group have done it.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Remember that you will have to get a 2WD T3 speedo if you
change
> > the
> > >
> > > > > front
> > > > > diff ratio.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Les
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >
> > > > > From: syncrosity4now <mailto:syncrosity4now@
> > > > <mailto:syncrosity4now%40yahoo.com.au> yahoo.com.au>
> > > > >
> > > > > To: Syncro_T3_Australia <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com> @yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > @yahoogroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 10:59 PM
> > > > >
> > > > > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: 4.86 ratio
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes i am aware of all this to a certain point, as for
> > modifications
> > > to
> > > > > the enginre the only thig i may do at present is give throw on
> > some
> > > > > 1.25 ratio rockers and a decent high flow cat and muffler
system
> > oh
> > > > > and som 4 prong spark plugs if i can find them(havent looked
yet).
> > > > > So as to the gearbox i am hoping by keeping it relatively stock
> > and
> > > > > keep it standard except for maybe for a heavy duty 3rd 4th.
And at
> > > > > some stage a decent heavy duty diff set.
> > > > > So by matching my gearbox ratios and tyres and keeping it
> > relatively
> > > > > stock i seem to be making some headway and choosing the right
> > path.
> > > My
> > > > > motor is a 2.1ltr so i am fairly confident it will take the
load
> > of
> > > 15
> > > > > inch tyres and a 4.86 diff ratio. Not really caring about top
> > speed
> > > as
> > > > > we all know it counts for nothing in the bush, so i am more so
> > going
> > > > > for a finer balance.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia
> > > > > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > @yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <borzeken@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > .
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > <http://geo.yahoo.
> > > > <http://geo.yahoo.
> > > <http://geo.yahoo.
> >
<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m
> > >
> > com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m
> > > >
> > > com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m
> > > > >
> > > > com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/m
> > > > > sgI
> > > > > d=1366/stime=1170935991/nc1=3848610/nc2=4025325/nc3=3>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>