a/c idle up

1
Les, I hate to reopen old wounds but I may have discovered a resoning behind your a/c compressor wiring problems. I lifted the engine cover for second time since i bought the syncro as turning on the a/c was causing an excessive idle up. I suspected it was caused by a poorly adjusted idle switch, it was, adusted all o.k. I was surprised the system had an idle up since it was non genuine. The signal wire is white with a green trace and starts at the idle stab ecu and comes out of the loom with the left hand bank injector plugs. The really interesting thing is the terminals are all vw, so it looks like mine was "semi" pre wired for a/c. I wonder if your a/c fitters were trying to link in the idle up wire to the positive side of the magnetic clutch. The only thing was they grabbed the wrong wire, probably in the absence of the white green wire. Does this make any sense? Just a thought. Greg
2

Reply to Greg Esposito 19 Dec and Nick Bell 07 Dec

Nick,

Sorry for the tardy reply but I have bit a bit less than well for the last three weeks.

The workshop is on the other side of Melbourne and I didn’t get to see what they found.  What I was told later was that a taping had been taken from the leads that have to be disconnected to set up the timing and the plugs (previously pictured) were indicated as where the tapping was taken from.  These plugs are at the left side of the engine bay.

I removed the compressor and mounting bracket soon after I bought the Syncro because it had broken the crankcase mounting boss and was very insecure.  The breaking of the boss was probably exacerbated by the fact that the mounting bracket is an immense structure made from 10 mm mild steel and weighed at least as much as the compressor.  I will eventually have the boss repaired and will make a mounting bracket from aluminium plate.

 

Nick, Greg,

When I removed the compressor, I bagged the ends of the pipes and tied them back. I tied back the pressure switch and wires without ever looking at the wiring connections but I have today done a diagram of what is there now – this is after the positive tapping was removed by the workshop – see attachment.  It is probable that the top long loose lead on the socket was what ran to the plugs.  One of the plugs is two wire – red/yellow and brown.  The other is single wire – green. 

To have any idea of what the original Prestige wiring looked like, we would need to find someone who has the original wiring intact.  Ken might well have this knowledge.

 

Greg,

Since I have never run my compressor, I don’t know if there was an idle-up function fitted by Prestige but, again, Ken might know about this.

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of gregespo73
Sent: 19 December 2009 20:05
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] a/c idle up

 

 

Les, I hate to reopen old wounds but I may have discovered a resoning behind your a/c compressor wiring problems. I lifted the engine cover for second time since i bought the syncro as turning on the a/c was causing an excessive idle up. I suspected it was caused by a poorly adjusted idle switch, it was, adusted all o.k. I was surprised the system had an idle up since it was non genuine. The signal wire is white with a green trace and starts at the idle stab ecu and comes out of the loom with the left hand bank injector plugs. The really interesting thing is the terminals are all vw, so it looks like mine was "semi" pre wired for a/c. I wonder if your a/c fitters were trying to link in the idle up wire to the positive side of the magnetic clutch. The only thing was they grabbed the wrong wire, probably in the absence of the white green wire. Does this make any sense? Just a thought. Greg

3
The broken crankcase from the compressor bracket was well known. Apparently they were poorly made and put stress on the case causing cracks. I had heard of a few that the cases were replaced and paid for by the a/c company.

> I removed the compressor and mounting bracket soon after I bought the
> Syncro
> because it had broken the crankcase mounting boss and was very insecure.
> The breaking of the boss was probably exacerbated by the fact that the
> mounting bracket is an immense structure made from 10 mm mild steel and
> weighed at least as much as the compressor. I will eventually have the
> boss
> repaired and will make a mounting bracket from aluminium plate.
>
4
Where typically is the damage to the case so I can double check mine? I see there are 4 fixing bolts for the mounting plate, 2 forward, 2 rear. Does case damage occur adjacent to one or more of these particular bolts, if so, can someone identify which one/s please?
Ken 
 
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: plander@optusnet.com.au
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 14:52:15 +1100
Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] a/c idle up

 
The broken crankcase from the compressor bracket was well known. Apparently they were poorly made and put stress on the case causing cracks. I had heard of a few that the cases were replaced and paid for by the a/c company.

> I removed the compressor and mounting bracket soon after I bought the
> Syncro
> because it had broken the crankcase mounting boss and was very insecure.
> The breaking of the boss was probably exacerbated by the fact that the
> mounting bracket is an immense structure made from 10 mm mild steel and
> weighed at least as much as the compressor. I will eventually have the
> boss
> repaired and will make a mounting bracket from aluminium plate.
>


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5
Les,
I've remained pretty much totally at a loss trying to follow this thread, the information seems to change with every post so no .... haven't a clue and can't help at all ... sorry. That doesn't mean to say I'm not interested though.
Ken
 
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: leslieharris@optusnet.com.au
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 14:00:52 +1100
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] a/c idle up

 

Reply to Greg Esposito 19 Dec and Nick Bell 07 Dec

Nick,

Sorry for the tardy reply but I have bit a bit less than well for the last three weeks.

The workshop is on the other side of Melbourne and I didn’t get to see what they found.  What I was told later was that a taping had been taken from the leads that have to be disconnected to set up the timing and the plugs (previously pictured) were indicated as where the tapping was taken from.  These plugs are at the left side of the engine bay.

I removed the compressor and mounting bracket soon after I bought the Syncro because it had broken the crankcase mounting boss and was very insecure.  The breaking of the boss was probably exacerbated by the fact that the mounting bracket is an immense structure made from 10 mm mild steel and weighed at least as much as the compressor.  I will eventually have the boss repaired and will make a mounting bracket from aluminium plate.

 

Nick, Greg,

When I removed the compressor, I bagged the ends of the pipes and tied them back. I tied back the pressure switch and wires without ever looking at the wiring connections but I have today done a diagram of what is there now – this is after the positive tapping was removed by the workshop – see attachment.  It is probable that the top long loose lead on the socket was what ran to the plugs.  One of the plugs is two wire – red/yellow and brown.  The other is single wire – green. 

To have any idea of what the original Prestige wiring looked like, we would need to find someone who has the original wiring intact.  Ken might well have this knowledge.

 

Greg,

Since I have never run my compressor, I don’t know if there was an idle-up function fitted by Prestige but, again, Ken might know about this.

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of gregespo73
Sent: 19 December 2009 20:05
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] a/c idle up

 

 

Les, I hate to reopen old wounds but I may have discovered a resoning behind your a/c compressor wiring problems. I lifted the engine cover for second time since i bought the syncro as turning on the a/c was causing an excessive idle up. I suspected it was caused by a poorly adjusted idle switch, it was, adusted all o.k. I was surprised the system had an idle up since it was non genuine. The signal wire is white with a green trace and starts at the idle stab ecu and comes out of the loom with the left hand bank injector plugs. The really interesting thing is the terminals are all vw, so it looks like mine was "semi" pre wired for a/c. I wonder if your a/c fitters were trying to link in the idle up wire to the positive side of the magnetic clutch. The only thing was they grabbed the wrong wire, probably in the absence of the white green wire. Does this make any sense? Just a thought. Greg


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6
Steve Muller at Kombi Rescue may be able to help.



> Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Where typically is the damage to the case so I can double check mine? I
> see there are 4 fixing bolts for the mounting plate, 2 forward, 2 rear.
> Does case damage occur adjacent to one or more of these particular
> bolts, if so, can someone identify which one/s please?
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: plander@optusnet.com.au
> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 14:52:15 +1100
> Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] a/c idle up
>
>
>
>
>
> The broken crankcase from the compressor bracket was well known.
> Apparently they were poorly made and put stress on the case causing
> cracks. I had heard of a few that the cases were replaced and paid for
> by the a/c company.
>
> > I removed the compressor and mounting bracket soon after I bought the
> > Syncro
> > because it had broken the crankcase mounting boss and was very
> insecure.
> > The breaking of the boss was probably exacerbated by the fact that the
> > mounting bracket is an immense structure made from 10 mm mild steel
> and
> > weighed at least as much as the compressor. I will eventually have the
>
> > boss
> > repaired and will make a mounting bracket from aluminium plate.
> >
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> A world FIRST in property search has arrived! Check out Domain Radar
> NOW!
> http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/
7

Ken,

I have attached a pic of he broken boss on my engine.  This is the top left rear corner of the crankcase where the coolant pump bolts on.  Phill can probably confirm that this was the typical failure.

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Ken Garratt
Sent: 21 December 2009 00:07
To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] a/c idle up

 

 

Where typically is the damage to the case so I can double check mine? I see there are 4 fixing bolts for the mounting plate, 2 forward, 2 rear. Does case damage occur adjacent to one or more of these particular bolts, if so, can someone identify which one/s please?
Ken 
 

To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
From: plander@optusnet. com.au
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 14:52:15 +1100
Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] a/c idle up

 

The broken crankcase from the compressor bracket was well known. Apparently they were poorly made and put stress on the case causing cracks. I had heard of a few that the cases were replaced and paid for by the a/c company.

> I removed the compressor and mounting bracket soon after I bought the
> Syncro
> because it had broken the crankcase mounting boss and was very insecure.
> The breaking of the boss was probably exacerbated by the fact that the
> mounting bracket is an immense structure made from 10 mm mild steel and
> weighed at least as much as the compressor. I will eventually have the
> boss
> repaired and will make a mounting bracket from aluminium plate.
>

 

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8
Phill can probably confirm that this was the typical failure.
>
> Les

My memory is not that good. I just know that they were poor quality and damaged cases. I was warned not to get a/c except genuine which I could not afford at the time.
9

Phill,

This suggests that the VAG mounting bracket was lighter and a far better fit.  It would be interesting to see a VAG mounting bracket and compare the two.  I have never seen the real thing.

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of plander@optusnet.com.au
Sent: 21 December 2009 10:27
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] a/c idle up

 

 



Phill can probably confirm that this was the typical failure.

>
> Les

My memory is not that good. I just know that they were poor quality and damaged cases. I was warned not to get a/c except genuine which I could not afford at the time.

10
I didn't take any notice at the time. You could easily get one s/h from the USA.


> Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> Phill,
>
> This suggests that the VAG mounting bracket was lighter and a far better
> fit. It would be interesting to see a VAG mounting bracket and compare
> the
> two. I have never seen the real thing.
>
> Les
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> plander@optusnet.com.au
> Sent: 21 December 2009 10:27
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] a/c idle up
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Phill can probably confirm that this was the typical failure.
> >
> > Les
>
> My memory is not that good. I just know that they were poor quality and
> damaged cases. I was warned not to get a/c except genuine which I could
> not
> afford at the time.
11
Les,
Maybe you missed your chance tthen during the weekend of DOTV.
Probably Marks Caravelle a/c is VW factory fitted.
Ken


-----Original Message-----
From: Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au>
Sent: Monday, 21 December 2009 10:39 AM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] a/c idle up


Phill,
This suggests that the VAG mounting bracket was lighter and a far better fit. It would be interesting to see a VAG mounting bracket and compare the two. I have never seen the real thing.
Les


From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of plander@optusnet.com.au
Sent: 21 December 2009 10:27
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] a/c idle up




Phill can probably confirm that this was the typical failure.
>
> Les

My memory is not that good. I just know that they were poor quality and damaged cases. I was warned not to get a/c except genuine which I could not afford at the time.
12

Phill,

Very good idea and I know just the person who could tell us – Ben Tan

Yo, Ben?

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of plander@optusnet.com.au
Sent: 21 December 2009 10:49
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] a/c idle up

 

I didn't take any notice at the time. You could easily get one s/h from the USA .


13
Hi Les,

I am a prisoner of the holidays the next few days. Let me know which bracket you want to see. They are relatively easy to source used here. It's rare to find post-1986 vans without AC here. 

BenT
Sent from my mobile device

On Dec 20, 2009, at 3:57 PM, "Les Harris" <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

Phill,

Very good idea and I know just the person who could tell us – Ben Tan

Yo, Ben?

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of plander@optusnet.com.au
Sent: 21 December 2009 10:49
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] a/c idle up

 

I didn't take any notice at the time. You could easily get one s/h from the USA .


14
Les,
 
Thanks for the pic, a big help. So in fact where your arrow is pointing for the broken boss, looks to me to be be precisely the position of the rear right-hand corner plate fixing bolt. Would be a lot easier to see that location if the plate is removed.
 
John Figgis also had trouble earlier on with the bolts fixing down the plate, he warns to check the fixing bolts for fatigue also, in particular the potential for the bolt heads shearing off.
 
Ken
 

 
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: leslieharris@optusnet.com.au
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:48:17 +1100
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] a/c idle up

 

Ken,

I have attached a pic of he broken boss on my engine.  This is the top left rear corner of the crankcase where the coolant pump bolts on.  Phill can probably confirm that this was the typical failure.

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Ken Garratt
Sent: 21 December 2009 00:07
To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] a/c idle up

 

 

Where typically is the damage to the case so I can double check mine? I see there are 4 fixing bolts for the mounting plate, 2 forward, 2 rear. Does case damage occur adjacent to one or more of these particular bolts, if so, can someone identify which one/s please?
Ken 
 

To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
From: plander@optusnet. com.au
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 14:52:15 +1100
Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] a/c idle up

 

The broken crankcase from the compressor bracket was well known. Apparently they were poorly made and put stress on the case causing cracks. I had heard of a few that the cases were replaced and paid for by the a/c company.

> I removed the compressor and mounting bracket soon after I bought the
> Syncro
> because it had broken the crankcase mounting boss and was very insecure.
> The breaking of the boss was probably exacerbated by the fact that the
> mounting bracket is an immense structure made from 10 mm mild steel and
> weighed at least as much as the compressor. I will eventually have the
> boss
> repaired and will make a mounting bracket from aluminium plate.
>

 

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15
Les,
Sorry, had a brain fade ..... I mean the rear left-hand plate fixing bolt.
Ken
 
To: syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com
From: unclekenz@hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 14:35:49 +1100
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] a/c idle up

 
Les,
 
Thanks for the pic, a big help. So in fact where your arrow is pointing for the broken boss, looks to me to be be precisely the position of the rear right-hand corner plate fixing bolt. Would be a lot easier to see that location if the plate is removed.
 
John Figgis also had trouble earlier on with the bolts fixing down the plate, he warns to check the fixing bolts for fatigue also, in particular the potential for the bolt heads shearing off.
 
Ken
 

 
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
From: leslieharris@ optusnet. com.au
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:48:17 +1100
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] a/c idle up

 

Ken,

I have attached a pic of he broken boss on my engine.  This is the top left rear corner of the crankcase where the coolant pump bolts on.  Phill can probably confirm that this was the typical failure.

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Ken Garratt
Sent: 21 December 2009 00:07
To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] a/c idle up

 

 

Where typically is the damage to the case so I can double check mine? I see there are 4 fixing bolts for the mounting plate, 2 forward, 2 rear. Does case damage occur adjacent to one or more of these particular bolts, if so, can someone identify which one/s please?
Ken 
 

To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
From: plander@optusnet. com.au
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 14:52:15 +1100
Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] a/c idle up

 

The broken crankcase from the compressor bracket was well known. Apparently they were poorly made and put stress on the case causing cracks. I had heard of a few that the cases were replaced and paid for by the a/c company.

> I removed the compressor and mounting bracket soon after I bought the
> Syncro
> because it had broken the crankcase mounting boss and was very insecure.
> The breaking of the boss was probably exacerbated by the fact that the
> mounting bracket is an immense structure made from 10 mm mild steel and
> weighed at least as much as the compressor. I will eventually have the
> boss
> repaired and will make a mounting bracket from aluminium plate.
>

 

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16

Ken,

The mounting bracket has to be removed to se the crankcase boss.  When I bought my Syncro, I noticed that the compressor and bracket was visibly vibrating and that the compressor belt was out of alignment with the crankshaft pulley.  When I removed he compressor and bracket, I found the broken boss.  Not only that but the upper surface of what was left of the boss has been hammered by the loose bracket.  You can see the hammering if you zoom in on the pic.

Michael has told us that the original VAG bracket was cast aluminium and that makes a lot more sense than the massive mild steel plate that Prestige used.  Ben Tan is currently tied up with Christmas affairs but I will talk to him about getting hold of a genuine VAG bracket.  I will look at it from the point of view of fabricating out of aluminium.

I have heard from Stuart Parry, whose Syncro is identical to mine and has the aftermarket air conditioner untouched, and I will go and look at it when he returns to Melbourne (from Jervis Bay ) in early January.

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Ken Garratt
Sent: 21 December 2009 14:46
To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] a/c idle up

 

 

Les,
Sorry, had a brain fade ..... I mean the rear left-hand plate fixing bolt.
Ken
 

To: syncro_t3_australia @yahoogroups. com
From: unclekenz@hotmail. com
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 14:35:49 +1100
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] a/c idle up

 

Les,
 
Thanks for the pic, a big help. So in fact where your arrow is pointing for the broken boss, looks to me to be be precisely the position of the rear right-hand corner plate fixing bolt. Would be a lot easier to see that location if the plate is removed.
 
John Figgis also had trouble earlier on with the bolts fixing down the plate, he warns to check the fixing bolts for fatigue also, in particular the potential for the bolt heads shearing off.
 
Ken
 

17
Les,
I reckon it'd be much cheaper, quicker and simpler to obtain a used aluminium plate from the US, if it can be confirmed first that the compressor fit size is identical to our (Prestige) Sanden compressor model SD-709 (fit is 83.3mm mounting ear deflection. BenT may be in a position to confirm equivalence.
Ken



-----Original Message-----
From: Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au>
Sent: Monday, 21 December 2009 4:19 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] a/c idle up



[The entire original message is not included]
18
Les,

I should be able to get some free time to get pics Tuesday (evening to
you).


Ken,

In all likelihood, a good use bracket from here will be much cheaper
than making one from scratch.


BenT
Sent from my mobile device

On Dec 20, 2009, at 11:00 PM, "Ken Garratt " <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Les,
> I reckon it'd be much cheaper, quicker and simpler to obtain a used
> aluminium plate from the US, if it can be confirmed first that the
> compressor fit size is identical to our (Prestige) Sanden compressor
> model SD-709 (fit is 83.3mm mounting ear deflection. BenT may be in
> a position to confirm equivalence.
> Ken
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au>
> Sent: Monday, 21 December 2009 4:19 PM
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] a/c idle up
>
>
>
> [The entire original message is not included]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
19

Thanks Ben.  When you are free is fine.

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of BenT Syncro
Sent: 21 December 2009 18:26
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] a/c idle up

 

 

Les,

I should be able to get some free time to get pics Tuesday (evening to
you).

Ken,

In all likelihood, a good use bracket from here will be much cheaper
than making one from scratch.

BenT
Sent from my mobile device

On Dec 20, 2009, at 11:00 PM, "Ken Garratt " <unclekenz@hotmail. com>
wrote:

> Les,
> I reckon it'd be much cheaper, quicker and simpler to obtain a used
> aluminium plate from the US ,
if it can be confirmed first that the
> compressor fit size is identical to our (Prestige) Sanden compressor
> model SD-709 (fit is 83.3mm mounting ear deflection. BenT may be in
> a position to confirm equivalence.
> Ken
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Les Harris <leslieharris@ optusnet. com.au>
> Sent: Monday, 21 December 2009 4:19 PM
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] a/c idle up
>
>
>
> [The entire original message is not included]
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>