Dealing with rust.

21
BenT,
My sentiments exactly and addresses the nub of the problem. One would have to demolish the van to access and properly treat/seal/protect the total width of the seams. Impossible/impractical.
Cheers.
Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: syncro@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 12:42:19 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.

 

Hi Skot,

In my experience, the procedure you describe is a 'bandaid' repair. Unless the seams are cleaned-up and resealed from the backside, the seam rust will return very quickly. You would almost be better off sealing both sides without making any repairs than repairing only on one side without touching the source of corrosion. The freshly sandblasted metal would just provide fertile ground for the tinworm to cultivate.


Cheers,

BenT

sent from my electronic leash

On Mar 8, 2011, at 12:34 PM, "Mr Scott Pitcher" <spbconsulting@bigpond.com> wrote:

Ken,
 
I saw a bloke from the Gold Coast area who just works on kombis and restores them doing a T3 2wd recently (Das Autohaus). He had a special tool that removed the seem sealer (scraped it out) then he sandblasted the seam before repainting in there then using new seam sealer.
 
At least the area had paint protection.
 
These areas are a very common problem and I have even seen a few T4's starting to get seam rash.
 
Skot
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 12:52 AM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.

 
Greg,

Yeah well there's long been a school of thought that syncro seam rust starts from the inside of the seam and works to the outside. Probably right too. So when eyeballing closely a rusted seam from the outside and with a thought of remedying it properly, I must say I have serious doubts it is even remotely possible without first dismantling the panels, and what average punter is going to do that?

Yep, Sika products look pretty good eh, with the proviso that rusted seams from without to within are properly treated first. The hard bit.

Cheers.
Ken





  

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 19:29:34 -0800
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.

 
Ken, Fusor and I think sika make the correct products for seam filling. Remember these vans are 20yrs old, the seam filler in our vans has shrunk and gone hard. No mailable product will stay the same forever.

--- On Tue, 8/3/11, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.
To: "Syncro _T3_Australia forum" <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Received: Tuesday, 8 March, 2011, 9:49 AM

 
Benny,
In my view, a prerequisite to a syncro full body prep and respray would be first establishing my confidence that the body panel shop has the knowledge, experience and long established technique for a longish term solution for treating AND sealing panel seams, be they rusted or not. I see no point in proceeding down this path if this cannot be established. A case of needing "the weakest link in the chain", the panel seams, being properly addressed or else forget it, leave the existing paintwork as is and deal with rust/paint as best one can. I mean it's a lot of money invested in a new paint job, only to see seam failure again on the first trip away.

So for panel seams to be properly addressed/treated/sealed/painted as opposed to overlooked or contemptuous scant regard, if lead loading is a solution but unavailable and bog is available but the wrong solution, is there in the panel beating/spray painting industry an established technique that satisfactorily deals with panel seam seal failure due most likely to body panel/structural flexing? In other words, if the panel seams succumb to flex and so the seam seal duly fails, is there a known technique that treats and reseals the seams, allows the seam to flex thereafter AND that auto paints adhere to and don't crack?

I'm here to learn but I suspect I know your answer but please prove me wrong. TIA

Cheers.
Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: bencroft96@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 13:00:54 +0000
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.

 
Kenny,I wasnt advocating the use of nicky in seams.
Bog is widely used as a filler in the repair of vehicles.
If used properly after minor rust repair it will be fine..

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> Benny,Do typical bog properties include stretching/flexing ability to accommodate usual stresses and strains in syncro body panel join seams?Cheers.Ken
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: bencroft96@...
> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 00:36:41 +0000
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lead wiping is a skill that most younger gen panel beaters wouldnt of even seen.Just bog it up,mate.
>
>
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Roger Bell <bellrmit@> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > I found the attached interesting and informative for those reluctant to replace all metal parts with stainless steel ! I've seen lead loading done by a skilled tradesman and was most impressed with the quality and promised logivity of the result.
>
> > Roger
>
> > Melbourne not on Sea
>
> > Seam rust prevention?: lead loading...
>
> > Posted by: "Pedro" pedrokrusher@ pedrokrusher
>
> > Sat Mar 5, 2011 2:11 pm (PST)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Hi syncronuts
>
> >
>
> > Here is a web site describing a lead loading technique that I believe could be a usefull way to stop/limit the seam rust for us on the salt belt:
>
> >
>
> > http://www.thehotwo rks.com/restorat ion-and-customis ation-techniques /lead-loading
>
> >
>
> > Check out the custom job on the doublecab. Some pretty neat stuff like the custom metal bumpers. Don't like what they did with the horizontal middle side rib do...
>
> >
>
> > Pedro
>
> > 1991 vanagon westfalia conversion TDI, Silverfox
>
> > 1989 vanagon syncro passenger, Syncrofox
>
> >
>



 


22
Scott,
In my own amateurish way, I tackled that same notorious front lower seam say 2-3 years ago, leaving it to rot further was not an option. My starting point was to lever open the seam as far as possible but only where it was rusting and without damaging the interval spot welds. I keep my eye on it every other day since. Probably helped ever since leaving the van parked in my enclosed garage!

The part you may have missed is as BenT eluded, addressing also the back of the seam. This is Hartmuts territory. You need to get in the spare wheel bay with patience/motivation/rigor/torch and mattress. First take a kip (naturally as one does), then see whats possible in terms of treating/sealing that backside vertical seam. Not for the faint hearted. I did mine soon after I did the front side. All good since, touch wood. However it is insidious, usually catches one out when ones attention is diverted.

Someone once said something about eternal vigilance. Applies in this case!

Cheers.
Ken 



To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: spbconsulting@bigpond.com
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 07:54:27 +1100
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.

 

Ben,
 
Its very difficult to get to the backside of a seam. His tool was great for cleaning out the muck and where rust appeared to creep in he did heat and stretch the seam apart slightly and clean all the muck out. He threw lots of thinned paint in there (several coats) so that would slow the rash down.
 
I have had the lower nose / front panel repaired 3 times on my syncro with the seam lifted up and sandblasted then reshaped and welded again only to have it happen again further along the seam.
 
That is the worst spot in my opinion as it is horizontal and water likes to sit in there.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.

 

Hi Skot,

In my experience, the procedure you describe is a 'bandaid' repair. Unless the seams are cleaned-up and resealed from the backside, the seam rust will return very quickly. You would almost be better off sealing both sides without making any repairs than repairing only on one side without touching the source of corrosion. The freshly sandblasted metal would just provide fertile ground for the tinworm to cultivate.


Cheers,

BenT

sent from my electronic leash

On Mar 8, 2011, at 12:34 PM, "Mr Scott Pitcher" <spbconsulting@bigpond.com> wrote:

Ken,
 
I saw a bloke from the Gold Coast area who just works on kombis and restores them doing a T3 2wd recently (Das Autohaus). He had a special tool that removed the seem sealer (scraped it out) then he sandblasted the seam before repainting in there then using new seam sealer.
 
At least the area had paint protection.
 
These areas are a very common problem and I have even seen a few T4's starting to get seam rash.
 
Skot
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 12:52 AM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.

 
Greg,

Yeah well there's long been a school of thought that syncro seam rust starts from the inside of the seam and works to the outside. Probably right too. So when eyeballing closely a rusted seam from the outside and with a thought of remedying it properly, I must say I have serious doubts it is even remotely possible without first dismantling the panels, and what average punter is going to do that?

Yep, Sika products look pretty good eh, with the proviso that rusted seams from without to within are properly treated first. The hard bit.

Cheers.
Ken





  

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 19:29:34 -0800
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.

 
Ken, Fusor and I think sika make the correct products for seam filling. Remember these vans are 20yrs old, the seam filler in our vans has shrunk and gone hard. No mailable product will stay the same forever.

--- On Tue, 8/3/11, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.
To: "Syncro _T3_Australia forum" <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Received: Tuesday, 8 March, 2011, 9:49 AM

 
Benny,
In my view, a prerequisite to a syncro full body prep and respray would be first establishing my confidence that the body panel shop has the knowledge, experience and long established technique for a longish term solution for treating AND sealing panel seams, be they rusted or not. I see no point in proceeding down this path if this cannot be established. A case of needing "the weakest link in the chain", the panel seams, being properly addressed or else forget it, leave the existing paintwork as is and deal with rust/paint as best one can. I mean it's a lot of money invested in a new paint job, only to see seam failure again on the first trip away.

So for panel seams to be properly addressed/treated/sealed/painted as opposed to overlooked or contemptuous scant regard, if lead loading is a solution but unavailable and bog is available but the wrong solution, is there in the panel beating/spray painting industry an established technique that satisfactorily deals with panel seam seal failure due most likely to body panel/structural flexing? In other words, if the panel seams succumb to flex and so the seam seal duly fails, is there a known technique that treats and reseals the seams, allows the seam to flex thereafter AND that auto paints adhere to and don't crack?

I'm here to learn but I suspect I know your answer but please prove me wrong. TIA

Cheers.
Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: bencroft96@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 13:00:54 +0000
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.

 
Kenny,I wasnt advocating the use of nicky in seams.
Bog is widely used as a filler in the repair of vehicles.
If used properly after minor rust repair it will be fine..

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> Benny,Do typical bog properties include stretching/flexing ability to accommodate usual stresses and strains in syncro body panel join seams?Cheers.Ken
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: bencroft96@...
> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 00:36:41 +0000
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lead wiping is a skill that most younger gen panel beaters wouldnt of even seen.Just bog it up,mate.
>
>
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Roger Bell <bellrmit@> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > I found the attached interesting and informative for those reluctant to replace all metal parts with stainless steel ! I've seen lead loading done by a skilled tradesman and was most impressed with the quality and promised logivity of the result.
>
> > Roger
>
> > Melbourne not on Sea
>
> > Seam rust prevention?: lead loading...
>
> > Posted by: "Pedro" pedrokrusher@ pedrokrusher
>
> > Sat Mar 5, 2011 2:11 pm (PST)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Hi syncronuts
>
> >
>
> > Here is a web site describing a lead loading technique that I believe could be a usefull way to stop/limit the seam rust for us on the salt belt:
>
> >
>
> > http://www.thehotwo rks.com/restorat ion-and-customis ation-techniques /lead-loading
>
> >
>
> > Check out the custom job on the doublecab. Some pretty neat stuff like the custom metal bumpers. Don't like what they did with the horizontal middle side rib do...
>
> >
>
> > Pedro
>
> > 1991 vanagon westfalia conversion TDI, Silverfox
>
> > 1989 vanagon syncro passenger, Syncrofox
>
> >
>



 



23
Sensitive subject for me because I just spent a small fortune on rust repair panels for my Doublecab. My perfect looking roof started to rust from the inside out. Upon closer inspection, it was revealed that a hole originally used for an antenna cable was left open. The small amount of water intrusion sitting in the inside supports eventually cause rust which is costing a few thousand dollars to remediate.

My bodyman uses a rubberized undercoating made by Wurth which appears to work very well at sealing the backsides. It's flexible enough to handle the rigors of undercarriage life. On the inside, he uses another sort of soft filler. The problem areas are at the floor line. Westfalia conversions suffer more in this regard because they used fiberglass insulation which tend to hold moisture. If you live in your van any period of time, just moisture in your breath can collect in these areas. Not sure how Trakka designed their galley systems. If it's anything like the Westy systems, I'd start looking at the areas behind the cooler/refrigerator.


Cheers,

BenT
sent from my electronic leash

On Mar 8, 2011, at 2:56 PM, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:

Scott,
In my own amateurish way, I tackled that same notorious front lower seam say 2-3 years ago, leaving it to rot further was not an option. My starting point was to lever open the seam as far as possible but only where it was rusting and without damaging the interval spot welds. I keep my eye on it every other day since. Probably helped ever since leaving the van parked in my enclosed garage!

The part you may have missed is as BenT eluded, addressing also the back of the seam. This is Hartmuts territory. You need to get in the spare wheel bay with patience/motivation/rigor/torch and mattress. First take a kip (naturally as one does), then see whats possible in terms of treating/sealing that backside vertical seam. Not for the faint hearted. I did mine soon after I did the front side. All good since, touch wood. However it is insidious, usually catches one out when ones attention is diverted.

Someone once said something about eternal vigilance. Applies in this case!

Cheers.
Ken 



To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: spbconsulting@bigpond.com
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 07:54:27 +1100
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.

 

Ben,
 
Its very difficult to get to the backside of a seam. His tool was great for cleaning out the muck and where rust appeared to creep in he did heat and stretch the seam apart slightly and clean all the muck out. He threw lots of thinned paint in there (several coats) so that would slow the rash down.
 
I have had the lower nose / front panel repaired 3 times on my syncro with the seam lifted up and sandblasted then reshaped and welded again only to have it happen again further along the seam.
 
That is the worst spot in my opinion as it is horizontal and water likes to sit in there.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.

 

Hi Skot,

In my experience, the procedure you describe is a 'bandaid' repair. Unless the seams are cleaned-up and resealed from the backside, the seam rust will return very quickly. You would almost be better off sealing both sides without making any repairs than repairing only on one side without touching the source of corrosion. The freshly sandblasted metal would just provide fertile ground for the tinworm to cultivate.


Cheers,

BenT

sent from my electronic leash

On Mar 8, 2011, at 12:34 PM, "Mr Scott Pitcher" <spbconsulting@bigpond.com> wrote:

Ken,
 
I saw a bloke from the Gold Coast area who just works on kombis and restores them doing a T3 2wd recently (Das Autohaus). He had a special tool that removed the seem sealer (scraped it out) then he sandblasted the seam before repainting in there then using new seam sealer.
 
At least the area had paint protection.
 
These areas are a very common problem and I have even seen a few T4's starting to get seam rash.
 
Skot
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 12:52 AM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.

 
Greg,

Yeah well there's long been a school of thought that syncro seam rust starts from the inside of the seam and works to the outside. Probably right too. So when eyeballing closely a rusted seam from the outside and with a thought of remedying it properly, I must say I have serious doubts it is even remotely possible without first dismantling the panels, and what average punter is going to do that?

Yep, Sika products look pretty good eh, with the proviso that rusted seams from without to within are properly treated first. The hard bit.

Cheers.
Ken





  

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 19:29:34 -0800
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.

 
Ken, Fusor and I think sika make the correct products for seam filling. Remember these vans are 20yrs old, the seam filler in our vans has shrunk and gone hard. No mailable product will stay the same forever.

--- On Tue, 8/3/11, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.
To: "Syncro _T3_Australia forum" <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Received: Tuesday, 8 March, 2011, 9:49 AM

 
Benny,
In my view, a prerequisite to a syncro full body prep and respray would be first establishing my confidence that the body panel shop has the knowledge, experience and long established technique for a longish term solution for treating AND sealing panel seams, be they rusted or not. I see no point in proceeding down this path if this cannot be established. A case of needing "the weakest link in the chain", the panel seams, being properly addressed or else forget it, leave the existing paintwork as is and deal with rust/paint as best one can. I mean it's a lot of money invested in a new paint job, only to see seam failure again on the first trip away.

So for panel seams to be properly addressed/treated/sealed/painted as opposed to overlooked or contemptuous scant regard, if lead loading is a solution but unavailable and bog is available but the wrong solution, is there in the panel beating/spray painting industry an established technique that satisfactorily deals with panel seam seal failure due most likely to body panel/structural flexing? In other words, if the panel seams succumb to flex and so the seam seal duly fails, is there a known technique that treats and reseals the seams, allows the seam to flex thereafter AND that auto paints adhere to and don't crack?

I'm here to learn but I suspect I know your answer but please prove me wrong. TIA

Cheers.
Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: bencroft96@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 13:00:54 +0000
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.

 
Kenny,I wasnt advocating the use of nicky in seams.
Bog is widely used as a filler in the repair of vehicles.
If used properly after minor rust repair it will be fine..

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> Benny,Do typical bog properties include stretching/flexing ability to accommodate usual stresses and strains in syncro body panel join seams?Cheers.Ken
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: bencroft96@...
> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 00:36:41 +0000
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lead wiping is a skill that most younger gen panel beaters wouldnt of even seen.Just bog it up,mate.
>
>
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Roger Bell <bellrmit@> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > I found the attached interesting and informative for those reluctant to replace all metal parts with stainless steel ! I've seen lead loading done by a skilled tradesman and was most impressed with the quality and promised logivity of the result.
>
> > Roger
>
> > Melbourne not on Sea
>
> > Seam rust prevention?: lead loading...
>
> > Posted by: "Pedro" pedrokrusher@ pedrokrusher
>
> > Sat Mar 5, 2011 2:11 pm (PST)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Hi syncronuts
>
> >
>
> > Here is a web site describing a lead loading technique that I believe could be a usefull way to stop/limit the seam rust for us on the salt belt:
>
> >
>
> > http://www.thehotwo rks.com/restorat ion-and-customis ation-techniques /lead-loading
>
> >
>
> > Check out the custom job on the doublecab. Some pretty neat stuff like the custom metal bumpers. Don't like what they did with the horizontal middle side rib do...
>
> >
>
> > Pedro
>
> > 1991 vanagon westfalia conversion TDI, Silverfox
>
> > 1989 vanagon syncro passenger, Syncrofox
>
> >
>



 



24
Maybe this can be a working bee up at Hart Motors at Christmas time again.
 
We can all install smoke alarms next to the radiator fan to comply with sleeping in (under) the vehicle and treat the back of the lower front seam.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:56 AM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.

 

Scott,

In my own amateurish way, I tackled that same notorious front lower seam say 2-3 years ago, leaving it to rot further was not an option. My starting point was to lever open the seam as far as possible but only where it was rusting and without damaging the interval spot welds. I keep my eye on it every other day since. Probably helped ever since leaving the van parked in my enclosed garage!

The part you may have missed is as BenT eluded, addressing also the back of the seam. This is Hartmuts territory. You need to get in the spare wheel bay with patience/motivation/rigor/torch and mattress. First take a kip (naturally as one does), then see whats possible in terms of treating/sealing that backside vertical seam. Not for the faint hearted. I did mine soon after I did the front side. All good since, touch wood. However it is insidious, usually catches one out when ones attention is diverted.

Someone once said something about eternal vigilance. Applies in this case!

Cheers.
Ken 



To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: spbconsulting@bigpond.com
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 07:54:27 +1100
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.

 

Ben,
 
Its very difficult to get to the backside of a seam. His tool was great for cleaning out the muck and where rust appeared to creep in he did heat and stretch the seam apart slightly and clean all the muck out. He threw lots of thinned paint in there (several coats) so that would slow the rash down.
 
I have had the lower nose / front panel repaired 3 times on my syncro with the seam lifted up and sandblasted then reshaped and welded again only to have it happen again further along the seam.
 
That is the worst spot in my opinion as it is horizontal and water likes to sit in there.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.

 

Hi Skot,

In my experience, the procedure you describe is a 'bandaid' repair. Unless the seams are cleaned-up and resealed from the backside, the seam rust will return very quickly. You would almost be better off sealing both sides without making any repairs than repairing only on one side without touching the source of corrosion. The freshly sandblasted metal would just provide fertile ground for the tinworm to cultivate.


Cheers,

BenT

sent from my electronic leash

On Mar 8, 2011, at 12:34 PM, "Mr Scott Pitcher" <spbconsulting@bigpond.com> wrote:

Ken,
 
I saw a bloke from the Gold Coast area who just works on kombis and restores them doing a T3 2wd recently (Das Autohaus). He had a special tool that removed the seem sealer (scraped it out) then he sandblasted the seam before repainting in there then using new seam sealer.
 
At least the area had paint protection.
 
These areas are a very common problem and I have even seen a few T4's starting to get seam rash.
 
Skot
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 12:52 AM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.

 
Greg,

Yeah well there's long been a school of thought that syncro seam rust starts from the inside of the seam and works to the outside. Probably right too. So when eyeballing closely a rusted seam from the outside and with a thought of remedying it properly, I must say I have serious doubts it is even remotely possible without first dismantling the panels, and what average punter is going to do that?

Yep, Sika products look pretty good eh, with the proviso that rusted seams from without to within are properly treated first. The hard bit.

Cheers.
Ken





  

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 19:29:34 -0800
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.

 
Ken, Fusor and I think sika make the correct products for seam filling. Remember these vans are 20yrs old, the seam filler in our vans has shrunk and gone hard. No mailable product will stay the same forever.

--- On Tue, 8/3/11, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.
To: "Syncro _T3_Australia forum" <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Received: Tuesday, 8 March, 2011, 9:49 AM

 
Benny,
In my view, a prerequisite to a syncro full body prep and respray would be first establishing my confidence that the body panel shop has the knowledge, experience and long established technique for a longish term solution for treating AND sealing panel seams, be they rusted or not. I see no point in proceeding down this path if this cannot be established. A case of needing "the weakest link in the chain", the panel seams, being properly addressed or else forget it, leave the existing paintwork as is and deal with rust/paint as best one can. I mean it's a lot of money invested in a new paint job, only to see seam failure again on the first trip away.

So for panel seams to be properly addressed/treated/sealed/painted as opposed to overlooked or contemptuous scant regard, if lead loading is a solution but unavailable and bog is available but the wrong solution, is there in the panel beating/spray painting industry an established technique that satisfactorily deals with panel seam seal failure due most likely to body panel/structural flexing? In other words, if the panel seams succumb to flex and so the seam seal duly fails, is there a known technique that treats and reseals the seams, allows the seam to flex thereafter AND that auto paints adhere to and don't crack?

I'm here to learn but I suspect I know your answer but please prove me wrong. TIA

Cheers.
Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: bencroft96@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 13:00:54 +0000
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.

 
Kenny,I wasnt advocating the use of nicky in seams.
Bog is widely used as a filler in the repair of vehicles.
If used properly after minor rust repair it will be fine..

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
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> Benny,Do typical bog properties include stretching/flexing ability to accommodate usual stresses and strains in syncro body panel join seams?Cheers.Ken
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: bencroft96@...
> Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 00:36:41 +0000
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.
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> Lead wiping is a skill that most younger gen panel beaters wouldnt of even seen.Just bog it up,mate.
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> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Roger Bell <bellrmit@> wrote:
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> > I found the attached interesting and informative for those reluctant to replace all metal parts with stainless steel ! I've seen lead loading done by a skilled tradesman and was most impressed with the quality and promised logivity of the result.
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> > Seam rust prevention?: lead loading...
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> > Posted by: "Pedro" pedrokrusher@ pedrokrusher
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> > Sat Mar 5, 2011 2:11 pm (PST)
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> > Hi syncronuts
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> > Here is a web site describing a lead loading technique that I believe could be a usefull way to stop/limit the seam rust for us on the salt belt:
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> > http://www.thehotwo rks.com/restorat ion-and-customis ation-techniques /lead-loading
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> > Check out the custom job on the doublecab. Some pretty neat stuff like the custom metal bumpers. Don't like what they did with the horizontal middle side rib do...
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> > Pedro
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> > 1991 vanagon westfalia conversion TDI, Silverfox
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> > 1989 vanagon syncro passenger, Syncrofox
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25
I've always been a bit of a fan of fisholene. When I first painted external metal on my house (over 30 years ago) I mixed fisholene half and half with zinc primer. In those days fisholene never set, now I think it does. Has kept rust at bay. A lot different to a car though.

My mechanic looks after a few Cruiser traybacks at the local salt works. Electronic doovies didn't work and now he douses them in Lanotec every 3 months I think it is.  It's made from the grease from wool.  http://www.lanotec.com.au/ 

I've got some rust around the windscreen so what do I ask the repairer to do?

Anyone use Penetrol? 

Or is Por 15 the only way to go? I think KBS http://www.kbs-coatings.com.au/ is a local version of it by someone who worked for POR.

I will have had the have the Syncro 20 years in a couple of weeks time and I think it needs a birthday present. Start by fixing around the windscreen and some dents.

Bruce CQld





On 09/03/2011, at 7:46 AM, Ken Garratt wrote:

 

Bob,


What, and miss out on real life stories like Rogers? No way.

Deodorised? ... forget it. One'd have to be limp wristed, surely.

Ken



26
are we talking fish oil or swedish backpackers?

27
I vote for the Swedish backpackers.
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Dealing with rust.

 

are we talking fish oil or swedish backpackers?