engine bay rattle

Hi Guys

Well the problem of the engine bay rattle continues to dog and frustrate. After leaving the car with the mechanic for 10 days while I was in Sydney, Jimmy the mechanic in Pambula says that he's found the problem,part of the tin heat-shield rattling against the engine. But when I take it for a test, first hill i approach full throttle and it's stiil there .Jim says he drove it three times and couldn't get it to rattle. So while I drive up the hill Jim is in the back,engine cover off trying to locate the noise. Fiddles with the distributor a bit and noise goes. Drive it around along the flat 80k' all appears OK. Head home on Hwy first decent incline, foot flat to the floor, back comes rattle,not quite as heavy but still unmistakably there.

My Question. Can anyone shed some light on the type of distributor. It's a Bosch. Jim is not sure whether it has a centrifugal something or other, or whether it is controlled by computer chip. Personally I still think it's a metal on metal rattle as it appears to be influenced, at times, by body movement,like when hitting a depression in the road surface, this seems to exacerbate the sound. Sound comes from the rear passenger side corner. Put the clutch in and sound stop. Coast down a hill and no rattle,no rattle when revving in neutral.No rattle when engine is cold. It's not the catalytic convertor, that OK. It's not pleasant driving the van with this sound, very unsettling. Any idea's people?

Thanks in advance.
Michael Rayner.



--



Are you sure that it's not pinging?

What octane fuel are you using?

Phill



> Michael Rayner <mallaner@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Guys
>
> Well the problem of the engine bay rattle continues to dog and
> frustrate.
> After leaving the car with the mechanic for 10 days while I was in
> Sydney,
> Jimmy the mechanic in Pambula says that he's found the problem,part of
> the
> tin heat-shield rattling against the engine. But when I take it for a
> test,
> first hill i approach full throttle and it's stiil there .Jim says he
> drove
> it three times and couldn't get it to rattle. So while I drive up the
> hill
> Jim is in the back,engine cover off trying to locate the noise. Fiddles
> with
> the distributor a bit and noise goes. Drive it around along the flat
> 80k'
> all appears OK. Head home on Hwy first decent incline, foot flat to the
> floor, back comes rattle,not quite as heavy but still unmistakably
> there.
>
> My Question. Can anyone shed some light on the type of distributor. It's
> a
> Bosch. Jim is not sure whether it has a centrifugal something or other,
> or
> whether it is controlled by computer chip. Personally I still think
> it's a
> metal on metal rattle as it appears to be influenced, at times, by body
> movement,like when hitting a depression in the road surface, this seems
> to
> exacerbate the sound. Sound comes from the rear passenger side corner.
> Put
> the clutch in and sound stop. Coast down a hill and no rattle,no rattle
> when
> revving in neutral.No rattle when engine is cold. It's not the
> catalytic
> convertor, that OK. It's not pleasant driving the van with this sound,
> very
> unsettling. Any idea's people?
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Michael Rayner.
>
>
>
> --
It's definitely a tinny metally rattle vibration, not pinging. Using premium, although must say did use 91ron originally and no rattle then, only recently since using premium. But I don't think it's that .Phill can you give some light re the distributor/ignition system. Both myself and mechanic unsure.

On 5 March 2011 16:09, <plander@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

Are you sure that it's not pinging?

What octane fuel are you using?

Phill



> Michael Rayner <mallaner@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Guys
>
> Well the problem of the engine bay rattle continues to dog and
> frustrate.
> After leaving the car with the mechanic for 10 days while I was in
> Sydney,
> Jimmy the mechanic in Pambula says that he's found the problem,part of
> the
> tin heat-shield rattling against the engine. But when I take it for a
> test,
> first hill i approach full throttle and it's stiil there .Jim says he
> drove
> it three times and couldn't get it to rattle. So while I drive up the
> hill
> Jim is in the back,engine cover off trying to locate the noise. Fiddles
> with
> the distributor a bit and noise goes. Drive it around along the flat
> 80k'
> all appears OK. Head home on Hwy first decent incline, foot flat to the
> floor, back comes rattle,not quite as heavy but still unmistakably
> there.
>
> My Question. Can anyone shed some light on the type of distributor. It's
> a
> Bosch. Jim is not sure whether it has a centrifugal something or other,
> or
> whether it is controlled by computer chip. Personally I still think
> it's a
> metal on metal rattle as it appears to be influenced, at times, by body
> movement,like when hitting a depression in the road surface, this seems
> to
> exacerbate the sound. Sound comes from the rear passenger side corner.
> Put
> the clutch in and sound stop. Coast down a hill and no rattle,no rattle
> when
> revving in neutral.No rattle when engine is cold. It's not the
> catalytic
> convertor, that OK. It's not pleasant driving the van with this sound,
> very
> unsettling. Any idea's people?
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Michael Rayner.
>
>
>
> --




--
Regards

Michael

Michael Rayner East Light Photography
PO Box 144
MALLACOOTA VIC 3892

MOB: 0409 241 672
BUS: 0351169401
A/H: (03)5158 0346

Web: www.michaelraynerphotography.com.au
Email: michaelrayner@exemail.com.au


The advance is all done in the ECU (computer).

Do you have workshop manuals?

Pinging really does sound like a tinware rattle, especially when going up hills at low revs. It is caused by low octane fuel, too much timing advance or too high compression.

Phill



> Michael Rayner <mallaner@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It's definitely a tinny metally rattle vibration, not pinging. Using
> premium, although must say did use 91ron originally and no rattle then,
> only
> recently since using premium. But I don't think it's that .Phill can you
> give some light re the distributor/ignition system. Both myself and
> mechanic
> unsure.
>
> On 5 March 2011 16:09, <plander@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Are you sure that it's not pinging?
> >
> > What octane fuel are you using?
> >
> > Phill
> >
> >
> > > Michael Rayner <mallaner@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Guys
> > >
> > > Well the problem of the engine bay rattle continues to dog and
> > > frustrate.
> > > After leaving the car with the mechanic for 10 days while I was in
> > > Sydney,
> > > Jimmy the mechanic in Pambula says that he's found the problem,part
> of
> > > the
> > > tin heat-shield rattling against the engine. But when I take it for
> a
> > > test,
> > > first hill i approach full throttle and it's stiil there .Jim says
> he
> > > drove
> > > it three times and couldn't get it to rattle. So while I drive up
> the
> > > hill
> > > Jim is in the back,engine cover off trying to locate the noise.
> Fiddles
> > > with
> > > the distributor a bit and noise goes. Drive it around along the flat
> > > 80k'
> > > all appears OK. Head home on Hwy first decent incline, foot flat to
> the
> > > floor, back comes rattle,not quite as heavy but still unmistakably
> > > there.
> > >
> > > My Question. Can anyone shed some light on the type of distributor.
> It's
> > > a
> > > Bosch. Jim is not sure whether it has a centrifugal something or
> other,
> > > or
> > > whether it is controlled by computer chip. Personally I still think
> > > it's a
> > > metal on metal rattle as it appears to be influenced, at times, by
> body
> > > movement,like when hitting a depression in the road surface, this
> seems
> > > to
> > > exacerbate the sound. Sound comes from the rear passenger side
> corner.
> > > Put
> > > the clutch in and sound stop. Coast down a hill and no rattle,no
> rattle
> > > when
> > > revving in neutral.No rattle when engine is cold. It's not the
> > > catalytic
> > > convertor, that OK. It's not pleasant driving the van with this
> sound,
> > > very
> > > unsettling. Any idea's people?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance.
> > > Michael Rayner.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Regards
>
> Michael
>
> Michael Rayner East Light Photography
> PO Box 144
> MALLACOOTA VIC 3892
>
> MOB: 0409 241 672
> BUS: 0351169401
> A/H: (03)5158 0346
>
> Web: www.michaelraynerphotography.com.au
> Email: michaelrayner@exemail.com.au
Phill

This is good to know. Yes I do have the VW Syncro manual on DVD but unfortunately stopping when trying to open the PDF files. Gets half way thru the ignition chapter 11, which is for all aircooled models, before chucking a wobbly and the disc stops spinning on my macbook pro. I think the CD label on the disc is to thick. Other CD/ROM and DVD all work. Will try to open with a friends and print off to give to my mechanic. Anything else I should look for in the manual?

On 5 March 2011 17:10, <plander@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

The advance is all done in the ECU (computer).

Do you have workshop manuals?

Pinging really does sound like a tinware rattle, especially when going up hills at low revs. It is caused by low octane fuel, too much timing advance or too high compression.



Phill

> Michael Rayner <mallaner@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It's definitely a tinny metally rattle vibration, not pinging. Using
> premium, although must say did use 91ron originally and no rattle then,
> only
> recently since using premium. But I don't think it's that .Phill can you
> give some light re the distributor/ignition system. Both myself and
> mechanic
> unsure.
>
> On 5 March 2011 16:09, <plander@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Are you sure that it's not pinging?
> >
> > What octane fuel are you using?
> >
> > Phill
> >
> >
> > > Michael Rayner <mallaner@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Guys
> > >
> > > Well the problem of the engine bay rattle continues to dog and
> > > frustrate.
> > > After leaving the car with the mechanic for 10 days while I was in
> > > Sydney,
> > > Jimmy the mechanic in Pambula says that he's found the problem,part
> of
> > > the
> > > tin heat-shield rattling against the engine. But when I take it for
> a
> > > test,
> > > first hill i approach full throttle and it's stiil there .Jim says
> he
> > > drove
> > > it three times and couldn't get it to rattle. So while I drive up
> the
> > > hill
> > > Jim is in the back,engine cover off trying to locate the noise.
> Fiddles
> > > with
> > > the distributor a bit and noise goes. Drive it around along the flat
> > > 80k'
> > > all appears OK. Head home on Hwy first decent incline, foot flat to
> the
> > > floor, back comes rattle,not quite as heavy but still unmistakably
> > > there.
> > >
> > > My Question. Can anyone shed some light on the type of distributor.
> It's
> > > a
> > > Bosch. Jim is not sure whether it has a centrifugal something or
> other,
> > > or
> > > whether it is controlled by computer chip. Personally I still think
> > > it's a
> > > metal on metal rattle as it appears to be influenced, at times, by
> body
> > > movement,like when hitting a depression in the road surface, this
> seems
> > > to
> > > exacerbate the sound. Sound comes from the rear passenger side
> corner.
> > > Put
> > > the clutch in and sound stop. Coast down a hill and no rattle,no
> rattle
> > > when
> > > revving in neutral.No rattle when engine is cold. It's not the
> > > catalytic
> > > convertor, that OK. It's not pleasant driving the van with this
> sound,
> > > very
> > > unsettling. Any idea's people?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance.
> > > Michael Rayner.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Regards
>
> Michael
>
> Michael Rayner East Light Photography
> PO Box 144
> MALLACOOTA VIC 3892
>
> MOB: 0409 241 672
> BUS: 0351169401
> A/H: (03)5158 0346
>
> Web: www.michaelraynerphotography.com.au
> Email: michaelrayner@exemail.com.au




--



Michael, This is my post from two weeks ago.

Michael, If there is nothing wrong with your cat don't smash it. The sound you are describing, especially combined with a loss of power, sounds like detonation (to me). You need to check your ignition timing. Alternatively if you are not using premium try that and see if it improves or fixes it. If it does the timing is too far advanced. Or better yet stick with premium. Greg E

What it sounds like is happening when your mechanic touches the distributor is the cap is moving on the body of the distributor slightly (normal). This has the same effect as loosening the adjustment clamp and turning the distributor (how you set timing). He is in effect retarding the ignition.
Mechanics always set the timing on these cars wrong by just hooking up a timing light and setting it to the notch on the crank. The proceedure in the bentley must be followed. Also, don't you have yours on gas? Gas fitters often fit hotter spark plugs, this may also cause detonation (or pinking or pinging).
--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Michael Rayner <mallaner@...> wrote:
>
> Phill
>
> This is good to know. Yes I do have the VW Syncro manual on DVD but
> unfortunately stopping when trying to open the PDF files. Gets half way thru
> the ignition chapter 11, which is for all aircooled models, before chucking
> a wobbly and the disc stops spinning on my macbook pro. I think the CD label
> on the disc is to thick. Other CD/ROM and DVD all work. Will try to open
> with a friends and print off to give to my mechanic. Anything else I should
> look for in the manual?
>
> On 5 March 2011 17:10, <plander@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > The advance is all done in the ECU (computer).
> >
> > Do you have workshop manuals?
> >
> > Pinging really does sound like a tinware rattle, especially when going up
> > hills at low revs. It is caused by low octane fuel, too much timing advance
> > or too high compression.
> >
> >
> > Phill
> >
> > > Michael Rayner <mallaner@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > It's definitely a tinny metally rattle vibration, not pinging. Using
> > > premium, although must say did use 91ron originally and no rattle then,
> > > only
> > > recently since using premium. But I don't think it's that .Phill can you
> > > give some light re the distributor/ignition system. Both myself and
> > > mechanic
> > > unsure.
> > >
> > > On 5 March 2011 16:09, <plander@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Are you sure that it's not pinging?
> > > >
> > > > What octane fuel are you using?
> > > >
> > > > Phill
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Michael Rayner <mallaner@...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Guys
> > > > >
> > > > > Well the problem of the engine bay rattle continues to dog and
> > > > > frustrate.
> > > > > After leaving the car with the mechanic for 10 days while I was in
> > > > > Sydney,
> > > > > Jimmy the mechanic in Pambula says that he's found the problem,part
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > tin heat-shield rattling against the engine. But when I take it for
> > > a
> > > > > test,
> > > > > first hill i approach full throttle and it's stiil there .Jim says
> > > he
> > > > > drove
> > > > > it three times and couldn't get it to rattle. So while I drive up
> > > the
> > > > > hill
> > > > > Jim is in the back,engine cover off trying to locate the noise.
> > > Fiddles
> > > > > with
> > > > > the distributor a bit and noise goes. Drive it around along the flat
> > > > > 80k'
> > > > > all appears OK. Head home on Hwy first decent incline, foot flat to
> > > the
> > > > > floor, back comes rattle,not quite as heavy but still unmistakably
> > > > > there.
> > > > >
> > > > > My Question. Can anyone shed some light on the type of distributor.
> > > It's
> > > > > a
> > > > > Bosch. Jim is not sure whether it has a centrifugal something or
> > > other,
> > > > > or
> > > > > whether it is controlled by computer chip. Personally I still think
> > > > > it's a
> > > > > metal on metal rattle as it appears to be influenced, at times, by
> > > body
> > > > > movement,like when hitting a depression in the road surface, this
> > > seems
> > > > > to
> > > > > exacerbate the sound. Sound comes from the rear passenger side
> > > corner.
> > > > > Put
> > > > > the clutch in and sound stop. Coast down a hill and no rattle,no
> > > rattle
> > > > > when
> > > > > revving in neutral.No rattle when engine is cold. It's not the
> > > > > catalytic
> > > > > convertor, that OK. It's not pleasant driving the van with this
> > > sound,
> > > > > very
> > > > > unsettling. Any idea's people?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks in advance.
> > > > > Michael Rayner.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > Michael Rayner East Light Photography
> > > PO Box 144
> > > MALLACOOTA VIC 3892
> > >
> > > MOB: 0409 241 672
> > > BUS: 0351169401
> > > A/H: (03)5158 0346
> > >
> > > Web: www.michaelraynerphotography.com.au
> > > Email: michaelrayner@...
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
Thanks for all that Greg. I'll cut and paste this for Jim to mull over. No Greg I'm not on LPG. I'll be most surprised if this is thew problem as it sounds so much like tin or metal vibrating and banging against metal. But I'm open to all suggestions as I've exhausted all possible loose or rubbing connections.By the way, it wasn't the cat which I didn't smash..

On 5 March 2011 18:55, gregespo73 <gregespo73@yahoo.com> wrote:

Michael, This is my post from two weeks ago.

Michael, If there is nothing wrong with your cat don't smash it. The sound you are describing, especially combined with a loss of power, sounds like detonation (to me). You need to check your ignition timing. Alternatively if you are not using premium try that and see if it improves or fixes it. If it does the timing is too far advanced. Or better yet stick with premium. Greg E

What it sounds like is happening when your mechanic touches the distributor is the cap is moving on the body of the distributor slightly (normal). This has the same effect as loosening the adjustment clamp and turning the distributor (how you set timing). He is in effect retarding the ignition.
Mechanics always set the timing on these cars wrong by just hooking up a timing light and setting it to the notch on the crank. The proceedure in the bentley must be followed. Also, don't you have yours on gas? Gas fitters often fit hotter spark plugs, this may also cause detonation (or pinking or pinging).


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Michael Rayner <mallaner@...> wrote:
>
> Phill
>
> This is good to know. Yes I do have the VW Syncro manual on DVD but
> unfortunately stopping when trying to open the PDF files. Gets half way thru
> the ignition chapter 11, which is for all aircooled models, before chucking
> a wobbly and the disc stops spinning on my macbook pro. I think the CD label
> on the disc is to thick. Other CD/ROM and DVD all work. Will try to open
> with a friends and print off to give to my mechanic. Anything else I should
> look for in the manual?
>
> On 5 March 2011 17:10, <plander@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > The advance is all done in the ECU (computer).
> >
> > Do you have workshop manuals?
> >
> > Pinging really does sound like a tinware rattle, especially when going up
> > hills at low revs. It is caused by low octane fuel, too much timing advance
> > or too high compression.
> >
> >
> > Phill
> >
> > > Michael Rayner <mallaner@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > It's definitely a tinny metally rattle vibration, not pinging. Using
> > > premium, although must say did use 91ron originally and no rattle then,
> > > only
> > > recently since using premium. But I don't think it's that .Phill can you
> > > give some light re the distributor/ignition system. Both myself and
> > > mechanic
> > > unsure.
> > >
> > > On 5 March 2011 16:09, <plander@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Are you sure that it's not pinging?
> > > >
> > > > What octane fuel are you using?
> > > >
> > > > Phill
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Michael Rayner <mallaner@...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Guys
> > > > >
> > > > > Well the problem of the engine bay rattle continues to dog and
> > > > > frustrate.
> > > > > After leaving the car with the mechanic for 10 days while I was in
> > > > > Sydney,
> > > > > Jimmy the mechanic in Pambula says that he's found the problem,part
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > tin heat-shield rattling against the engine. But when I take it for
> > > a
> > > > > test,
> > > > > first hill i approach full throttle and it's stiil there .Jim says
> > > he
> > > > > drove
> > > > > it three times and couldn't get it to rattle. So while I drive up
> > > the
> > > > > hill
> > > > > Jim is in the back,engine cover off trying to locate the noise.
> > > Fiddles
> > > > > with
> > > > > the distributor a bit and noise goes. Drive it around along the flat
> > > > > 80k'
> > > > > all appears OK. Head home on Hwy first decent incline, foot flat to
> > > the
> > > > > floor, back comes rattle,not quite as heavy but still unmistakably
> > > > > there.
> > > > >
> > > > > My Question. Can anyone shed some light on the type of distributor.
> > > It's
> > > > > a
> > > > > Bosch. Jim is not sure whether it has a centrifugal something or
> > > other,
> > > > > or
> > > > > whether it is controlled by computer chip. Personally I still think
> > > > > it's a
> > > > > metal on metal rattle as it appears to be influenced, at times, by
> > > body
> > > > > movement,like when hitting a depression in the road surface, this
> > > seems
> > > > > to
> > > > > exacerbate the sound. Sound comes from the rear passenger side
> > > corner.
> > > > > Put
> > > > > the clutch in and sound stop. Coast down a hill and no rattle,no
> > > rattle
> > > > > when
> > > > > revving in neutral.No rattle when engine is cold. It's not the
> > > > > catalytic
> > > > > convertor, that OK. It's not pleasant driving the van with this
> > > sound,
> > > > > very
> > > > > unsettling. Any idea's people?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks in advance.
> > > > > Michael Rayner.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > Michael Rayner East Light Photography
> > > PO Box 144
> > > MALLACOOTA VIC 3892
> > >
> > > MOB: 0409 241 672
> > > BUS: 0351169401
> > > A/H: (03)5158 0346
> > >
> > > Web: www.michaelraynerphotography.com.au
> > > Email: michaelrayner@...
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
>




--


Just a thought but have you checked the pully as i had a similar prob and the noise was the key flogging........Pete

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Michael Rayner <mallaner@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for all that Greg. I'll cut and paste this for Jim to mull over. No
> Greg I'm not on LPG. I'll be most surprised if this is thew problem as it
> sounds so much like tin or metal vibrating and banging against metal. But
> I'm open to all suggestions as I've exhausted all possible loose or rubbing
> connections.By the way, it wasn't the cat which I didn't smash..
>
> On 5 March 2011 18:55, gregespo73 <gregespo73@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Michael, This is my post from two weeks ago.
> >
> > Michael, If there is nothing wrong with your cat don't smash it. The sound
> > you are describing, especially combined with a loss of power, sounds like
> > detonation (to me). You need to check your ignition timing. Alternatively if
> > you are not using premium try that and see if it improves or fixes it. If it
> > does the timing is too far advanced. Or better yet stick with premium. Greg
> > E
> >
> > What it sounds like is happening when your mechanic touches the distributor
> > is the cap is moving on the body of the distributor slightly (normal). This
> > has the same effect as loosening the adjustment clamp and turning the
> > distributor (how you set timing). He is in effect retarding the ignition.
> > Mechanics always set the timing on these cars wrong by just hooking up a
> > timing light and setting it to the notch on the crank. The proceedure in the
> > bentley must be followed. Also, don't you have yours on gas? Gas fitters
> > often fit hotter spark plugs, this may also cause detonation (or pinking or
> > pinging).
> >
> > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Michael Rayner <mallaner@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Phill
> > >
> > > This is good to know. Yes I do have the VW Syncro manual on DVD but
> > > unfortunately stopping when trying to open the PDF files. Gets half way
> > thru
> > > the ignition chapter 11, which is for all aircooled models, before
> > chucking
> > > a wobbly and the disc stops spinning on my macbook pro. I think the CD
> > label
> > > on the disc is to thick. Other CD/ROM and DVD all work. Will try to open
> > > with a friends and print off to give to my mechanic. Anything else I
> > should
> > > look for in the manual?
> > >
> > > On 5 March 2011 17:10, <plander@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The advance is all done in the ECU (computer).
> > > >
> > > > Do you have workshop manuals?
> > > >
> > > > Pinging really does sound like a tinware rattle, especially when going
> > up
> > > > hills at low revs. It is caused by low octane fuel, too much timing
> > advance
> > > > or too high compression.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Phill
> > > >
> > > > > Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > It's definitely a tinny metally rattle vibration, not pinging. Using
> > > > > premium, although must say did use 91ron originally and no rattle
> > then,
> > > > > only
> > > > > recently since using premium. But I don't think it's that .Phill can
> > you
> > > > > give some light re the distributor/ignition system. Both myself and
> > > > > mechanic
> > > > > unsure.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 5 March 2011 16:09, <plander@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are you sure that it's not pinging?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What octane fuel are you using?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Phill
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Guys
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well the problem of the engine bay rattle continues to dog and
> > > > > > > frustrate.
> > > > > > > After leaving the car with the mechanic for 10 days while I was
> > in
> > > > > > > Sydney,
> > > > > > > Jimmy the mechanic in Pambula says that he's found the
> > problem,part
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > tin heat-shield rattling against the engine. But when I take it
> > for
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > test,
> > > > > > > first hill i approach full throttle and it's stiil there .Jim
> > says
> > > > > he
> > > > > > > drove
> > > > > > > it three times and couldn't get it to rattle. So while I drive up
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > hill
> > > > > > > Jim is in the back,engine cover off trying to locate the noise.
> > > > > Fiddles
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > the distributor a bit and noise goes. Drive it around along the
> > flat
> > > > > > > 80k'
> > > > > > > all appears OK. Head home on Hwy first decent incline, foot flat
> > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > floor, back comes rattle,not quite as heavy but still
> > unmistakably
> > > > > > > there.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My Question. Can anyone shed some light on the type of
> > distributor.
> > > > > It's
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > Bosch. Jim is not sure whether it has a centrifugal something or
> > > > > other,
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > whether it is controlled by computer chip. Personally I still
> > think
> > > > > > > it's a
> > > > > > > metal on metal rattle as it appears to be influenced, at times,
> > by
> > > > > body
> > > > > > > movement,like when hitting a depression in the road surface, this
> > > > > seems
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > exacerbate the sound. Sound comes from the rear passenger side
> > > > > corner.
> > > > > > > Put
> > > > > > > the clutch in and sound stop. Coast down a hill and no rattle,no
> > > > > rattle
> > > > > > > when
> > > > > > > revving in neutral.No rattle when engine is cold. It's not the
> > > > > > > catalytic
> > > > > > > convertor, that OK. It's not pleasant driving the van with this
> > > > > sound,
> > > > > > > very
> > > > > > > unsettling. Any idea's people?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks in advance.
> > > > > > > Michael Rayner.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Regards
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael Rayner East Light Photography
> > > > > PO Box 144
> > > > > MALLACOOTA VIC 3892
> > > > >
> > > > > MOB: 0409 241 672
> > > > > BUS: 0351169401
> > > > > A/H: (03)5158 0346
> > > > >
> > > > > Web: www.michaelraynerphotography.com.au
> > > > > Email: michaelrayner@
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
Michael, try checking your engine mounts- might be worn & parts of the engine knock against the firewall under full power.Alternately check for dirt or stones stuck in the underbody protection frame that could be touching the engine-makes one hell of an awful noise. Best of luck, Eddie.

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "gregespo73" <gregespo73@...> wrote:
>
> Michael, This is my post from two weeks ago.
>
> Michael, If there is nothing wrong with your cat don't smash it. The sound you are describing, especially combined with a loss of power, sounds like detonation (to me). You need to check your ignition timing. Alternatively if you are not using premium try that and see if it improves or fixes it. If it does the timing is too far advanced. Or better yet stick with premium. Greg E
>
> What it sounds like is happening when your mechanic touches the distributor is the cap is moving on the body of the distributor slightly (normal). This has the same effect as loosening the adjustment clamp and turning the distributor (how you set timing). He is in effect retarding the ignition.
> Mechanics always set the timing on these cars wrong by just hooking up a timing light and setting it to the notch on the crank. The proceedure in the bentley must be followed. Also, don't you have yours on gas? Gas fitters often fit hotter spark plugs, this may also cause detonation (or pinking or pinging).
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> >
> > Phill
> >
> > This is good to know. Yes I do have the VW Syncro manual on DVD but
> > unfortunately stopping when trying to open the PDF files. Gets half way thru
> > the ignition chapter 11, which is for all aircooled models, before chucking
> > a wobbly and the disc stops spinning on my macbook pro. I think the CD label
> > on the disc is to thick. Other CD/ROM and DVD all work. Will try to open
> > with a friends and print off to give to my mechanic. Anything else I should
> > look for in the manual?
> >
> > On 5 March 2011 17:10, <plander@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > The advance is all done in the ECU (computer).
> > >
> > > Do you have workshop manuals?
> > >
> > > Pinging really does sound like a tinware rattle, especially when going up
> > > hills at low revs. It is caused by low octane fuel, too much timing advance
> > > or too high compression.
> > >
> > >
> > > Phill
> > >
> > > > Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > It's definitely a tinny metally rattle vibration, not pinging. Using
> > > > premium, although must say did use 91ron originally and no rattle then,
> > > > only
> > > > recently since using premium. But I don't think it's that .Phill can you
> > > > give some light re the distributor/ignition system. Both myself and
> > > > mechanic
> > > > unsure.
> > > >
> > > > On 5 March 2011 16:09, <plander@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you sure that it's not pinging?
> > > > >
> > > > > What octane fuel are you using?
> > > > >
> > > > > Phill
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Guys
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well the problem of the engine bay rattle continues to dog and
> > > > > > frustrate.
> > > > > > After leaving the car with the mechanic for 10 days while I was in
> > > > > > Sydney,
> > > > > > Jimmy the mechanic in Pambula says that he's found the problem,part
> > > > of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > tin heat-shield rattling against the engine. But when I take it for
> > > > a
> > > > > > test,
> > > > > > first hill i approach full throttle and it's stiil there .Jim says
> > > > he
> > > > > > drove
> > > > > > it three times and couldn't get it to rattle. So while I drive up
> > > > the
> > > > > > hill
> > > > > > Jim is in the back,engine cover off trying to locate the noise.
> > > > Fiddles
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > the distributor a bit and noise goes. Drive it around along the flat
> > > > > > 80k'
> > > > > > all appears OK. Head home on Hwy first decent incline, foot flat to
> > > > the
> > > > > > floor, back comes rattle,not quite as heavy but still unmistakably
> > > > > > there.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My Question. Can anyone shed some light on the type of distributor.
> > > > It's
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > Bosch. Jim is not sure whether it has a centrifugal something or
> > > > other,
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > whether it is controlled by computer chip. Personally I still think
> > > > > > it's a
> > > > > > metal on metal rattle as it appears to be influenced, at times, by
> > > > body
> > > > > > movement,like when hitting a depression in the road surface, this
> > > > seems
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > exacerbate the sound. Sound comes from the rear passenger side
> > > > corner.
> > > > > > Put
> > > > > > the clutch in and sound stop. Coast down a hill and no rattle,no
> > > > rattle
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > revving in neutral.No rattle when engine is cold. It's not the
> > > > > > catalytic
> > > > > > convertor, that OK. It's not pleasant driving the van with this
> > > > sound,
> > > > > > very
> > > > > > unsettling. Any idea's people?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks in advance.
> > > > > > Michael Rayner.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Regards
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > > Michael Rayner East Light Photography
> > > > PO Box 144
> > > > MALLACOOTA VIC 3892
> > > >
> > > > MOB: 0409 241 672
> > > > BUS: 0351169401
> > > > A/H: (03)5158 0346
> > > >
> > > > Web: www.michaelraynerphotography.com.au
> > > > Email: michaelrayner@
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
>
Pete,
Funny you mention the loose drive pulley. Out of the blue at Valla show last year, I discovered I had a very loose drive pulley too. No obvious reason why it happened. Not easily resolved if this happens away from home and without the right tools.

Ken.


-----Original Message-----
From: nerdnetty <peterw1000@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, 5 March 2011 7:47 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: engine bay rattle



[The entire original message is not included]
Pete. Sorry but what does key flogging mean. Please explain!

On 5 March 2011 19:44, nerdnetty <peterw1000@gmail.com> wrote:

Just a thought but have you checked the pully as i had a similar prob and the noise was the key flogging........Pete



--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Michael Rayner <mallaner@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for all that Greg. I'll cut and paste this for Jim to mull over. No
> Greg I'm not on LPG. I'll be most surprised if this is thew problem as it
> sounds so much like tin or metal vibrating and banging against metal. But
> I'm open to all suggestions as I've exhausted all possible loose or rubbing
> connections.By the way, it wasn't the cat which I didn't smash..
>
> On 5 March 2011 18:55, gregespo73 <gregespo73@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Michael, This is my post from two weeks ago.
> >
> > Michael, If there is nothing wrong with your cat don't smash it. The sound
> > you are describing, especially combined with a loss of power, sounds like
> > detonation (to me). You need to check your ignition timing. Alternatively if
> > you are not using premium try that and see if it improves or fixes it. If it
> > does the timing is too far advanced. Or better yet stick with premium. Greg
> > E
> >
> > What it sounds like is happening when your mechanic touches the distributor
> > is the cap is moving on the body of the distributor slightly (normal). This
> > has the same effect as loosening the adjustment clamp and turning the
> > distributor (how you set timing). He is in effect retarding the ignition.
> > Mechanics always set the timing on these cars wrong by just hooking up a
> > timing light and setting it to the notch on the crank. The proceedure in the
> > bentley must be followed. Also, don't you have yours on gas? Gas fitters
> > often fit hotter spark plugs, this may also cause detonation (or pinking or
> > pinging).
> >
> > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Michael Rayner <mallaner@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Phill
> > >
> > > This is good to know. Yes I do have the VW Syncro manual on DVD but
> > > unfortunately stopping when trying to open the PDF files. Gets half way
> > thru
> > > the ignition chapter 11, which is for all aircooled models, before
> > chucking
> > > a wobbly and the disc stops spinning on my macbook pro. I think the CD
> > label
> > > on the disc is to thick. Other CD/ROM and DVD all work. Will try to open
> > > with a friends and print off to give to my mechanic. Anything else I
> > should
> > > look for in the manual?
> > >
> > > On 5 March 2011 17:10, <plander@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The advance is all done in the ECU (computer).
> > > >
> > > > Do you have workshop manuals?
> > > >
> > > > Pinging really does sound like a tinware rattle, especially when going
> > up
> > > > hills at low revs. It is caused by low octane fuel, too much timing
> > advance
> > > > or too high compression.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Phill
> > > >
> > > > > Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > It's definitely a tinny metally rattle vibration, not pinging. Using
> > > > > premium, although must say did use 91ron originally and no rattle
> > then,
> > > > > only
> > > > > recently since using premium. But I don't think it's that .Phill can
> > you
> > > > > give some light re the distributor/ignition system. Both myself and
> > > > > mechanic
> > > > > unsure.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 5 March 2011 16:09, <plander@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are you sure that it's not pinging?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What octane fuel are you using?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Phill
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Guys
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well the problem of the engine bay rattle continues to dog and
> > > > > > > frustrate.
> > > > > > > After leaving the car with the mechanic for 10 days while I was
> > in
> > > > > > > Sydney,
> > > > > > > Jimmy the mechanic in Pambula says that he's found the
> > problem,part
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > tin heat-shield rattling against the engine. But when I take it
> > for
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > test,
> > > > > > > first hill i approach full throttle and it's stiil there .Jim
> > says
> > > > > he
> > > > > > > drove
> > > > > > > it three times and couldn't get it to rattle. So while I drive up
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > hill
> > > > > > > Jim is in the back,engine cover off trying to locate the noise.
> > > > > Fiddles
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > the distributor a bit and noise goes. Drive it around along the
> > flat
> > > > > > > 80k'
> > > > > > > all appears OK. Head home on Hwy first decent incline, foot flat
> > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > floor, back comes rattle,not quite as heavy but still
> > unmistakably
> > > > > > > there.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My Question. Can anyone shed some light on the type of
> > distributor.
> > > > > It's
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > Bosch. Jim is not sure whether it has a centrifugal something or
> > > > > other,
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > whether it is controlled by computer chip. Personally I still
> > think
> > > > > > > it's a
> > > > > > > metal on metal rattle as it appears to be influenced, at times,
> > by
> > > > > body
> > > > > > > movement,like when hitting a depression in the road surface, this
> > > > > seems
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > exacerbate the sound. Sound comes from the rear passenger side
> > > > > corner.
> > > > > > > Put
> > > > > > > the clutch in and sound stop. Coast down a hill and no rattle,no
> > > > > rattle
> > > > > > > when
> > > > > > > revving in neutral.No rattle when engine is cold. It's not the
> > > > > > > catalytic
> > > > > > > convertor, that OK. It's not pleasant driving the van with this
> > > > > sound,
> > > > > > > very
> > > > > > > unsettling. Any idea's people?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks in advance.
> > > > > > > Michael Rayner.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
>




--
Regards

Michael

Michael Rayner East Light Photography
PO Box 144
MALLACOOTA VIC 3892

MOB: 0409 241 672
BUS: 0351169401
A/H: (03)5158 0346

Web: www.michaelraynerphotography.com.au
Email: michaelrayner@exemail.com.au


Eddie

Thanks for that but been right through the underbody tightening all nuts and bolts and can't see any stones or debris lodged in the underbody.

On 5 March 2011 20:19, bergodaz <bergodaz@ozemail.com.au> wrote:

Michael, try checking your engine mounts- might be worn & parts of the engine knock against the firewall under full power.Alternately check for dirt or stones stuck in the underbody protection frame that could be touching the engine-makes one hell of an awful noise. Best of luck, Eddie.



--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "gregespo73" <gregespo73@...> wrote:
>
> Michael, This is my post from two weeks ago.
>
> Michael, If there is nothing wrong with your cat don't smash it. The sound you are describing, especially combined with a loss of power, sounds like detonation (to me). You need to check your ignition timing. Alternatively if you are not using premium try that and see if it improves or fixes it. If it does the timing is too far advanced. Or better yet stick with premium. Greg E
>
> What it sounds like is happening when your mechanic touches the distributor is the cap is moving on the body of the distributor slightly (normal). This has the same effect as loosening the adjustment clamp and turning the distributor (how you set timing). He is in effect retarding the ignition.
> Mechanics always set the timing on these cars wrong by just hooking up a timing light and setting it to the notch on the crank. The proceedure in the bentley must be followed. Also, don't you have yours on gas? Gas fitters often fit hotter spark plugs, this may also cause detonation (or pinking or pinging).
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> >
> > Phill
> >
> > This is good to know. Yes I do have the VW Syncro manual on DVD but
> > unfortunately stopping when trying to open the PDF files. Gets half way thru
> > the ignition chapter 11, which is for all aircooled models, before chucking
> > a wobbly and the disc stops spinning on my macbook pro. I think the CD label
> > on the disc is to thick. Other CD/ROM and DVD all work. Will try to open
> > with a friends and print off to give to my mechanic. Anything else I should
> > look for in the manual?
> >
> > On 5 March 2011 17:10, <plander@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > The advance is all done in the ECU (computer).
> > >
> > > Do you have workshop manuals?
> > >
> > > Pinging really does sound like a tinware rattle, especially when going up
> > > hills at low revs. It is caused by low octane fuel, too much timing advance
> > > or too high compression.
> > >
> > >
> > > Phill
> > >
> > > > Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > It's definitely a tinny metally rattle vibration, not pinging. Using
> > > > premium, although must say did use 91ron originally and no rattle then,
> > > > only
> > > > recently since using premium. But I don't think it's that .Phill can you
> > > > give some light re the distributor/ignition system. Both myself and
> > > > mechanic
> > > > unsure.
> > > >
> > > > On 5 March 2011 16:09, <plander@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you sure that it's not pinging?
> > > > >
> > > > > What octane fuel are you using?
> > > > >
> > > > > Phill
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Guys
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well the problem of the engine bay rattle continues to dog and
> > > > > > frustrate.
> > > > > > After leaving the car with the mechanic for 10 days while I was in
> > > > > > Sydney,
> > > > > > Jimmy the mechanic in Pambula says that he's found the problem,part
> > > > of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > tin heat-shield rattling against the engine. But when I take it for
> > > > a
> > > > > > test,
> > > > > > first hill i approach full throttle and it's stiil there .Jim says
> > > > he
> > > > > > drove
> > > > > > it three times and couldn't get it to rattle. So while I drive up
> > > > the
> > > > > > hill
> > > > > > Jim is in the back,engine cover off trying to locate the noise.
> > > > Fiddles
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > the distributor a bit and noise goes. Drive it around along the flat
> > > > > > 80k'
> > > > > > all appears OK. Head home on Hwy first decent incline, foot flat to
> > > > the
> > > > > > floor, back comes rattle,not quite as heavy but still unmistakably
> > > > > > there.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My Question. Can anyone shed some light on the type of distributor.
> > > > It's
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > Bosch. Jim is not sure whether it has a centrifugal something or
> > > > other,
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > whether it is controlled by computer chip. Personally I still think
> > > > > > it's a
> > > > > > metal on metal rattle as it appears to be influenced, at times, by
> > > > body
> > > > > > movement,like when hitting a depression in the road surface, this
> > > > seems
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > exacerbate the sound. Sound comes from the rear passenger side
> > > > corner.
> > > > > > Put
> > > > > > the clutch in and sound stop. Coast down a hill and no rattle,no
> > > > rattle
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > revving in neutral.No rattle when engine is cold. It's not the
> > > > > > catalytic
> > > > > > convertor, that OK. It's not pleasant driving the van with this
> > > > sound,
> > > > > > very
> > > > > > unsettling. Any idea's people?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks in advance.
> > > > > > Michael Rayner.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --

> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
>




--
Regards

Michael

Michael Rayner East Light Photography
PO Box 144
MALLACOOTA VIC 3892

MOB: 0409 241 672
BUS: 0351169401
A/H: (03)5158 0346

Web: www.michaelraynerphotography.com.au
Email: michaelrayner@exemail.com.au


hi all,
 re
"What it sounds like is happening when your mechanic touches the distributor is the cap is moving on the body of the distributor slightly (normal). This has the same effect as loosening the adjustment clamp and turning the distributor (how you set timing). He is in effect retarding the ignition."
 
for the sake of great understanding of things technical in the T3 syncro world..
I'll have to say that is not correct, not at all actually.
  I 'suppose' the distributor cap could fit not perfectly on the distributor body.
...however, all the Bosch Dist caps I see fit perfectly tightly...
 
but here's my main point ..
even if the dist cap could say rotate 1/8th inch left or right ..
that would not affect the timing.
 the point if ignition timing is determined in the lower part of the dist ..in the primary circuit ...
and not in the upper part of the dist ...in the cap and wires part ..that's called the secondary circuit btw ..
 
for example...suppose one wanted to do a coil wire spark test..
( remove coil wire from center of dist cap , arrange end of coil wire by engine block ,  crank engine on starter to watch for a nice fat spark. )
  - many people think the distributor cap has to be on for this test ..it does not ..
the ignition is developed in the lower part of the dist along with the coil ..and circuits in the ECU ..
The upper part merely distributor the spark to the right cylinder ..
it's two separate circuits mounted in common on one shaft.
other than that, they really don't have much to do with each other.
 
and the cap being a little loose won't affect the ignition timing per se.
And ..a proper Bosch cap should fit quite tightly and not move at all anyway . .
 
Scott
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 3:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: engine bay rattle

 

Eddie


Thanks for that but been right through the underbody tightening all nuts and bolts and can't see any stones or debris lodged in the underbody. 

On 5 March 2011 20:19, bergodaz <bergodaz@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
 

Michael, try checking your engine mounts- might be worn & parts of the engine knock against the firewall under full power.Alternately check for dirt or stones stuck in the underbody protection frame that could be touching the engine-makes one hell of an awful noise. Best of luck, Eddie.



--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "gregespo73" <gregespo73@...> wrote:
>
> Michael, This is my post from two weeks ago.
>
> Michael, If there is nothing wrong with your cat don't smash it. The sound you are describing, especially combined with a loss of power, sounds like detonation (to me). You need to check your ignition timing. Alternatively if you are not using premium try that and see if it improves or fixes it. If it does the timing is too far advanced. Or better yet stick with premium. Greg E
>
> What it sounds like is happening when your mechanic touches the distributor is the cap is moving on the body of the distributor slightly (normal). This has the same effect as loosening the adjustment clamp and turning the distributor (how you set timing). He is in effect retarding the ignition.
> Mechanics always set the timing on these cars wrong by just hooking up a timing light and setting it to the notch on the crank. The proceedure in the bentley must be followed. Also, don't you have yours on gas? Gas fitters often fit hotter spark plugs, this may also cause detonation (or pinking or pinging).
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> >
> > Phill
> >
> > This is good to know. Yes I do have the VW Syncro manual on DVD but
> > unfortunately stopping when trying to open the PDF files. Gets half way thru
> > the ignition chapter 11, which is for all aircooled models, before chucking
> > a wobbly and the disc stops spinning on my macbook pro. I think the CD label
> > on the disc is to thick. Other CD/ROM and DVD all work. Will try to open
> > with a friends and print off to give to my mechanic. Anything else I should
> > look for in the manual?
> >
> > On 5 March 2011 17:10, <plander@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > The advance is all done in the ECU (computer).
> > >
> > > Do you have workshop manuals?
> > >
> > > Pinging really does sound like a tinware rattle, especially when going up
> > > hills at low revs. It is caused by low octane fuel, too much timing advance
> > > or too high compression.
> > >
> > >
> > > Phill
> > >
> > > > Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > It's definitely a tinny metally rattle vibration, not pinging. Using
> > > > premium, although must say did use 91ron originally and no rattle then,
> > > > only
> > > > recently since using premium. But I don't think it's that .Phill can you
> > > > give some light re the distributor/ignition system. Both myself and
> > > > mechanic
> > > > unsure.
> > > >
> > > > On 5 March 2011 16:09, <plander@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you sure that it's not pinging?
> > > > >
> > > > > What octane fuel are you using?
> > > > >
> > > > > Phill
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Guys
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well the problem of the engine bay rattle continues to dog and
> > > > > > frustrate.
> > > > > > After leaving the car with the mechanic for 10 days while I was in
> > > > > > Sydney,
> > > > > > Jimmy the mechanic in Pambula says that he's found the problem,part
> > > > of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > tin heat-shield rattling against the engine. But when I take it for
> > > > a
> > > > > > test,
> > > > > > first hill i approach full throttle and it's stiil there .Jim says
> > > > he
> > > > > > drove
> > > > > > it three times and couldn't get it to rattle. So while I drive up
> > > > the
> > > > > > hill
> > > > > > Jim is in the back,engine cover off trying to locate the noise.
> > > > Fiddles
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > the distributor a bit and noise goes. Drive it around along the flat
> > > > > > 80k'
> > > > > > all appears OK. Head home on Hwy first decent incline, foot flat to
> > > > the
> > > > > > floor, back comes rattle,not quite as heavy but still unmistakably
> > > > > > there.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My Question. Can anyone shed some light on the type of distributor.
> > > > It's
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > Bosch. Jim is not sure whether it has a centrifugal something or
> > > > other,
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > whether it is controlled by computer chip. Personally I still think
> > > > > > it's a
> > > > > > metal on metal rattle as it appears to be influenced, at times, by
> > > > body
> > > > > > movement,like when hitting a depression in the road surface, this
> > > > seems
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > exacerbate the sound. Sound comes from the rear passenger side
> > > > corner.
> > > > > > Put
> > > > > > the clutch in and sound stop. Coast down a hill and no rattle,no
> > > > rattle
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > revving in neutral.No rattle when engine is cold. It's not the
> > > > > > catalytic
> > > > > > convertor, that OK. It's not pleasant driving the van with this
> > > > sound,
> > > > > > very
> > > > > > unsettling. Any idea's people?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks in advance.
> > > > > > Michael Rayner.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --

> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
>




--
Regards

Michael

Michael Rayner East Light Photography
PO Box 144
MALLACOOTA  VIC  3892

MOB: 0409 241 672
BUS:  0351169401
A/H:   (03)5158 0346

Web:   www.michaelraynerphotography.com.au
Email:  michaelrayner@exemail.com.au


Scott, Both the relationship between the Hall/optical/points and the distributor shaft and the relationship between the Rotor button/disrtibutor shaft and the cap have an effect on timing. I know its a long bow to draw but I am trying to help Michael fix his car. He says when driving under load his mechanic "touches the distributor" and the rattle stops. Can you offer a tangible solution? Greg E

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <ScottDaniel@...> wrote:
>
> hi all,
> re
> "What it sounds like is happening when your mechanic touches the distributor is the cap is moving on the body of the distributor slightly (normal). This has the same effect as loosening the adjustment clamp and turning the distributor (how you set timing). He is in effect retarding the ignition."
>
> for the sake of great understanding of things technical in the T3 syncro world..
> I'll have to say that is not correct, not at all actually.
> I 'suppose' the distributor cap could fit not perfectly on the distributor body.
> ...however, all the Bosch Dist caps I see fit perfectly tightly...
>
> but here's my main point ..
> even if the dist cap could say rotate 1/8th inch left or right ..
> that would not affect the timing.
> the point if ignition timing is determined in the lower part of the dist ..in the primary circuit ...
> and not in the upper part of the dist ...in the cap and wires part ..that's called the secondary circuit btw ..
>
> for example...suppose one wanted to do a coil wire spark test..
> ( remove coil wire from center of dist cap , arrange end of coil wire by engine block , crank engine on starter to watch for a nice fat spark. )
> - many people think the distributor cap has to be on for this test ..it does not ..
> the ignition is developed in the lower part of the dist along with the coil ..and circuits in the ECU ..
> The upper part merely distributor the spark to the right cylinder ..
> it's two separate circuits mounted in common on one shaft.
> other than that, they really don't have much to do with each other.
>
> and the cap being a little loose won't affect the ignition timing per se.
> And ..a proper Bosch cap should fit quite tightly and not move at all anyway . .
>
> Scott
> www.turbovans.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael Rayner
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 3:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: engine bay rattle
>
>
>
> Eddie
>
>
>
> Thanks for that but been right through the underbody tightening all nuts and bolts and can't see any stones or debris lodged in the underbody.
>
>
> On 5 March 2011 20:19, bergodaz <bergodaz@...> wrote:
>
>
> Michael, try checking your engine mounts- might be worn & parts of the engine knock against the firewall under full power.Alternately check for dirt or stones stuck in the underbody protection frame that could be touching the engine-makes one hell of an awful noise. Best of luck, Eddie.
>
>
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "gregespo73" <gregespo73@> wrote:
> >
> > Michael, This is my post from two weeks ago.
> >
> > Michael, If there is nothing wrong with your cat don't smash it. The sound you are describing, especially combined with a loss of power, sounds like detonation (to me). You need to check your ignition timing. Alternatively if you are not using premium try that and see if it improves or fixes it. If it does the timing is too far advanced. Or better yet stick with premium. Greg E
> >
> > What it sounds like is happening when your mechanic touches the distributor is the cap is moving on the body of the distributor slightly (normal). This has the same effect as loosening the adjustment clamp and turning the distributor (how you set timing). He is in effect retarding the ignition.
> > Mechanics always set the timing on these cars wrong by just hooking up a timing light and setting it to the notch on the crank. The proceedure in the bentley must be followed. Also, don't you have yours on gas? Gas fitters often fit hotter spark plugs, this may also cause detonation (or pinking or pinging).
> > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Phill
> > >
> > > This is good to know. Yes I do have the VW Syncro manual on DVD but
> > > unfortunately stopping when trying to open the PDF files. Gets half way thru
> > > the ignition chapter 11, which is for all aircooled models, before chucking
> > > a wobbly and the disc stops spinning on my macbook pro. I think the CD label
> > > on the disc is to thick. Other CD/ROM and DVD all work. Will try to open
> > > with a friends and print off to give to my mechanic. Anything else I should
> > > look for in the manual?
> > >
> > > On 5 March 2011 17:10, <plander@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The advance is all done in the ECU (computer).
> > > >
> > > > Do you have workshop manuals?
> > > >
> > > > Pinging really does sound like a tinware rattle, especially when going up
> > > > hills at low revs. It is caused by low octane fuel, too much timing advance
> > > > or too high compression.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Phill
> > > >
> > > > > Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > It's definitely a tinny metally rattle vibration, not pinging. Using
> > > > > premium, although must say did use 91ron originally and no rattle then,
> > > > > only
> > > > > recently since using premium. But I don't think it's that .Phill can you
> > > > > give some light re the distributor/ignition system. Both myself and
> > > > > mechanic
> > > > > unsure.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 5 March 2011 16:09, <plander@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are you sure that it's not pinging?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What octane fuel are you using?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Phill
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Guys
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well the problem of the engine bay rattle continues to dog and
> > > > > > > frustrate.
> > > > > > > After leaving the car with the mechanic for 10 days while I was in
> > > > > > > Sydney,
> > > > > > > Jimmy the mechanic in Pambula says that he's found the problem,part
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > tin heat-shield rattling against the engine. But when I take it for
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > test,
> > > > > > > first hill i approach full throttle and it's stiil there .Jim says
> > > > > he
> > > > > > > drove
> > > > > > > it three times and couldn't get it to rattle. So while I drive up
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > hill
> > > > > > > Jim is in the back,engine cover off trying to locate the noise.
> > > > > Fiddles
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > the distributor a bit and noise goes. Drive it around along the flat
> > > > > > > 80k'
> > > > > > > all appears OK. Head home on Hwy first decent incline, foot flat to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > floor, back comes rattle,not quite as heavy but still unmistakably
> > > > > > > there.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My Question. Can anyone shed some light on the type of distributor.
> > > > > It's
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > Bosch. Jim is not sure whether it has a centrifugal something or
> > > > > other,
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > whether it is controlled by computer chip. Personally I still think
> > > > > > > it's a
> > > > > > > metal on metal rattle as it appears to be influenced, at times, by
> > > > > body
> > > > > > > movement,like when hitting a depression in the road surface, this
> > > > > seems
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > exacerbate the sound. Sound comes from the rear passenger side
> > > > > corner.
> > > > > > > Put
> > > > > > > the clutch in and sound stop. Coast down a hill and no rattle,no
> > > > > rattle
> > > > > > > when
> > > > > > > revving in neutral.No rattle when engine is cold. It's not the
> > > > > > > catalytic
> > > > > > > convertor, that OK. It's not pleasant driving the van with this
> > > > > sound,
> > > > > > > very
> > > > > > > unsettling. Any idea's people?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks in advance.
> > > > > > > Michael Rayner.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Regards
>
> Michael
>
> Michael Rayner East Light Photography
> PO Box 144
> MALLACOOTA VIC 3892
>
> MOB: 0409 241 672
> BUS: 0351169401
> A/H: (03)5158 0346
>
> Web: www.michaelraynerphotography.com.au
> Email: michaelrayner@...
>
Sorry Scott had a think about it you are right it would not affect timing. But why would touching the distributor stop the rattle?

--- On Sun, 6/3/11, gregespo73 <gregespo73@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: gregespo73 <gregespo73@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: engine bay rattle
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Received: Sunday, 6 March, 2011, 8:17 AM

 
Scott, Both the relationship between the Hall/optical/points and the distributor shaft and the relationship between the Rotor button/disrtibutor shaft and the cap have an effect on timing. I know its a long bow to draw but I am trying to help Michael fix his car. He says when driving under load his mechanic "touches the distributor" and the rattle stops. Can you offer a tangible solution? Greg E

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <ScottDaniel@...> wrote:
>
> hi all,
> re
> "What it sounds like is happening when your mechanic touches the distributor is the cap is moving on the body of the distributor slightly (normal). This has the same effect as loosening the adjustment clamp and turning the distributor (how you set timing). He is in effect retarding the ignition."
>
> for the sake of great understanding of things technical in the T3 syncro world..
> I'll have to say that is not correct, not at all actually.
> I 'suppose' the distributor cap could fit not perfectly on the distributor body.
> ...however, all the Bosch Dist caps I see fit perfectly tightly...
>
> but here's my main point ..
> even if the dist cap could say rotate 1/8th inch left or right ..
> that would not affect the timing.
> the point if ignition timing is determined in the lower part of the dist ..in the primary circuit ...
> and not in the upper part of the dist ...in the cap and wires part ..that's called the secondary circuit btw ..
>
> for example...suppose one wanted to do a coil wire spark test..
> ( remove coil wire from center of dist cap , arrange end of coil wire by engine block , crank engine on starter to watch for a nice fat spark. )
> - many people think the distributor cap has to be on for this test ..it does not ..
> the ignition is developed in the lower part of the dist along with the coil ..and circuits in the ECU ..
> The upper part merely distributor the spark to the right cylinder ..
> it's two separate circuits mounted in common on one shaft.
> other than that, they really don't have much to do with each other.
>
> and the cap being a little loose won't affect the ignition timing per se.
> And ..a proper Bosch cap should fit quite tightly and not move at all anyway . .
>
> Scott
> www.turbovans.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael Rayner
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 3:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: engine bay rattle
>
>
>
> Eddie
>
>
>
> Thanks for that but been right through the underbody tightening all nuts and bolts and can't see any stones or debris lodged in the underbody.
>
>
> On 5 March 2011 20:19, bergodaz <bergodaz@...> wrote:
>
>
> Michael, try checking your engine mounts- might be worn & parts of the engine knock against the firewall under full power.Alternately check for dirt or stones stuck in the underbody protection frame that could be touching the engine-makes one hell of an awful noise. Best of luck, Eddie.
>
>
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "gregespo73" <gregespo73@> wrote:
> >
> > Michael, This is my post from two weeks ago.
> >
> > Michael, If there is nothing wrong with your cat don't smash it. The sound you are describing, especially combined with a loss of power, sounds like detonation (to me). You need to check your ignition timing. Alternatively if you are not using premium try that and see if it improves or fixes it. If it does the timing is too far advanced. Or better yet stick with premium. Greg E
> >
> > What it sounds like is happening when your mechanic touches the distributor is the cap is moving on the body of the distributor slightly (normal). This has the same effect as loosening the adjustment clamp and turning the distributor (how you set timing). He is in effect retarding the ignition.
> > Mechanics always set the timing on these cars wrong by just hooking up a timing light and setting it to the notch on the crank. The proceedure in the bentley must be followed. Also, don't you have yours on gas? Gas fitters often fit hotter spark plugs, this may also cause detonation (or pinking or pinging).
> > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Phill
> > >
> > > This is good to know. Yes I do have the VW Syncro manual on DVD but
> > > unfortunately stopping when trying to open the PDF files. Gets half way thru
> > > the ignition chapter 11, which is for all aircooled models, before chucking
> > > a wobbly and the disc stops spinning on my macbook pro. I think the CD label
> > > on the disc is to thick. Other CD/ROM and DVD all work. Will try to open
> > > with a friends and print off to give to my mechanic. Anything else I should
> > > look for in the manual?
> > >
> > > On 5 March 2011 17:10, <plander@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The advance is all done in the ECU (computer).
> > > >
> > > > Do you have workshop manuals?
> > > >
> > > > Pinging really does sound like a tinware rattle, especially when going up
> > > > hills at low revs. It is caused by low octane fuel, too much timing advance
> > > > or too high compression.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Phill
> > > >
> > > > > Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > It's definitely a tinny metally rattle vibration, not pinging. Using
> > > > > premium, although must say did use 91ron originally and no rattle then,
> > > > > only
> > > > > recently since using premium. But I don't think it's that .Phill can you
> > > > > give some light re the distributor/ignition system. Both myself and
> > > > > mechanic
> > > > > unsure.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 5 March 2011 16:09, <plander@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are you sure that it's not pinging?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What octane fuel are you using?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Phill
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Guys
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well the problem of the engine bay rattle continues to dog and
> > > > > > > frustrate.
> > > > > > > After leaving the car with the mechanic for 10 days while I was in
> > > > > > > Sydney,
> > > > > > > Jimmy the mechanic in Pambula says that he's found the problem,part
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > tin heat-shield rattling against the engine. But when I take it for
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > test,
> > > > > > > first hill i approach full throttle and it's stiil there .Jim says
> > > > > he
> > > > > > > drove
> > > > > > > it three times and couldn't get it to rattle. So while I drive up
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > hill
> > > > > > > Jim is in the back,engine cover off trying to locate the noise.
> > > > > Fiddles
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > the distributor a bit and noise goes. Drive it around along the flat
> > > > > > > 80k'
> > > > > > > all appears OK. Head home on Hwy first decent incline, foot flat to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > floor, back comes rattle,not quite as heavy but still unmistakably
> > > > > > > there.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My Question. Can anyone shed some light on the type of distributor.
> > > > > It's
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > Bosch. Jim is not sure whether it has a centrifugal something or
> > > > > other,
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > whether it is controlled by computer chip. Personally I still think
> > > > > > > it's a
> > > > > > > metal on metal rattle as it appears to be influenced, at times, by
> > > > > body
> > > > > > > movement,like when hitting a depression in the road surface, this
> > > > > seems
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > exacerbate the sound. Sound comes from the rear passenger side
> > > > > corner.
> > > > > > > Put
> > > > > > > the clutch in and sound stop. Coast down a hill and no rattle,no
> > > > > rattle
> > > > > > > when
> > > > > > > revving in neutral.No rattle when engine is cold. It's not the
> > > > > > > catalytic
> > > > > > > convertor, that OK. It's not pleasant driving the van with this
> > > > > sound,
> > > > > > > very
> > > > > > > unsettling. Any idea's people?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks in advance.
> > > > > > > Michael Rayner.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Regards
>
> Michael
>
> Michael Rayner East Light Photography
> PO Box 144
> MALLACOOTA VIC 3892
>
> MOB: 0409 241 672
> BUS: 0351169401
> A/H: (03)5158 0346
>
> Web: www.michaelraynerphotography.com.au
> Email: michaelrayner@...
>


 

Rattles can be a real pain in the RRRRs (rear region revving rattles). For what it’s worth, I find the best way to locate a particular noise source in the engine bay is to use an automotive stethoscope. With the long metal probe you can locate some noisy bearings such as water pump or alternator by touching the bearing housing. If you remove the metal probe  and use just the rubber tubing you can locate air noises particularly well. When in close proximity to the source of the noise if you point the tube directly at the source most of the other extraneous engine noises become insignificant. I located a particularly difficult to detect exhaust flange crack using this method.

Good luck,

Tom

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Rayner
Sent: Saturday, 5 March 2011 4:43 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] engine bay rattle

 

 

It's definitely a tinny metally rattle vibration, not pinging. Using premium, although must say did use 91ron originally and no rattle then, only recently since using premium. But I don't think it's that .Phill can you give some light re the distributor/ignition system. Both myself and mechanic unsure.

On 5 March 2011 16:09, <plander@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

 

Are you sure that it's not pinging?

What octane fuel are you using?

Phill



> Michael Rayner <mallaner@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Guys
>
> Well the problem of the engine bay rattle continues to dog and
> frustrate.
> After leaving the car with the mechanic for 10 days while I was in
> Sydney,
> Jimmy the mechanic in Pambula says that he's found the problem,part of
> the
> tin heat-shield rattling against the engine. But when I take it for a
> test,
> first hill i approach full throttle and it's stiil there .Jim says he
> drove
> it three times and couldn't get it to rattle. So while I drive up the
> hill
> Jim is in the back,engine cover off trying to locate the noise. Fiddles
> with
> the distributor a bit and noise goes. Drive it around along the flat
> 80k'
> all appears OK. Head home on Hwy first decent incline, foot flat to the
> floor, back comes rattle,not quite as heavy but still unmistakably
> there.
>
> My Question. Can anyone shed some light on the type of distributor. It's
> a
> Bosch. Jim is not sure whether it has a centrifugal something or other,
> or
> whether it is controlled by computer chip. Personally I still think
> it's a
> metal on metal rattle as it appears to be influenced, at times, by body
> movement,like when hitting a depression in the road surface, this seems
> to
> exacerbate the sound. Sound comes from the rear passenger side corner.
> Put
> the clutch in and sound stop. Coast down a hill and no rattle,no rattle
> when
> revving in neutral.No rattle when engine is cold. It's not the
> catalytic
> convertor, that OK. It's not pleasant driving the van with this sound,
> very
> unsettling. Any idea's people?
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Michael Rayner.
>
>
>
> --




--
Regards

Michael

Michael Rayner East Light Photography
PO Box 144
MALLACOOTA  VIC  3892

MOB: 0409 241 672
BUS:  0351169401
A/H:   (03)5158 0346

Web:   www.michaelraynerphotography.com.au
Email:  michaelrayner@exemail.com.au

I hesitate to put in my 2bob's worth but I wonder if there is any chance the low tension circuit where it bolts on the distributor body is just loose enough to cause the engine to struggle (ping) a little and touching the distributor cap improves the connection and the engine doesn't ping and therefore doen't rattle. Soft engine mountings could aggrevate this.
 
I had an old Peugeot which had a vibration just on the cruising rev rang and it destroyed the ambiance of the car to the point I sold it utterly defeated after seemingly trying everything. The new owner pointed out he found the exhaust pipe just touched the bell housing(no pun intended) at certain revs and a slight re-alignment had cured it.
 
I hope you can be so lucky.
 
Roger Bell
 


--- On Sun, 6/3/11, greg esposito <gregespo73@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: greg esposito <gregespo73@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: engine bay rattle
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Received: Sunday, 6 March, 2011, 5:41 AM

 
Sorry Scott had a think about it you are right it would not affect timing. But why would touching the distributor stop the rattle?

--- On Sun, 6/3/11, gregespo73 <gregespo73@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: gregespo73 <gregespo73@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: engine bay rattle
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Received: Sunday, 6 March, 2011, 8:17 AM

 
Scott, Both the relationship between the Hall/optical/points and the distributor shaft and the relationship between the Rotor button/disrtibutor shaft and the cap have an effect on timing. I know its a long bow to draw but I am trying to help Michael fix his car. He says when driving under load his mechanic "touches the distributor" and the rattle stops. Can you offer a tangible solution? Greg E

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <ScottDaniel@...> wrote:
>
> hi all,
> re
> "What it sounds like is happening when your mechanic touches the distributor is the cap is moving on the body of the distributor slightly (normal). This has the same effect as loosening the adjustment clamp and turning the distributor (how you set timing). He is in effect retarding the ignition."
>
> for the sake of great understanding of things technical in the T3 syncro world..
> I'll have to say that is not correct, not at all actually.
> I 'suppose' the distributor cap could fit not perfectly on the distributor body.
> ...however, all the Bosch Dist caps I see fit perfectly tightly...
>
> but here's my main point ..
> even if the dist cap could say rotate 1/8th inch left or right ..
> that would not affect the timing.
> the point if ignition timing is determined in the lower part of the dist ..in the primary circuit ...
> and not in the upper part of the dist ...in the cap and wires part ..that's called the secondary circuit btw ..
>
> for example...suppose one wanted to do a coil wire spark test..
> ( remove coil wire from center of dist cap , arrange end of coil wire by engine block , crank engine on starter to watch for a nice fat spark. )
> - many people think the distributor cap has to be on for this test ..it does not ..
> the ignition is developed in the lower part of the dist along with the coil ..and circuits in the ECU ..
> The upper part merely distributor the spark to the right cylinder ..
> it's two separate circuits mounted in common on one shaft.
> other than that, they really don't have much to do with each other.
>
> and the cap being a little loose won't affect the ignition timing per se.
> And ..a proper Bosch cap should fit quite tightly and not move at all anyway . .
>
> Scott
> www.turbovans.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael Rayner
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 3:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: engine bay rattle
>
>
>
> Eddie
>
>
>
> Thanks for that but been right through the underbody tightening all nuts and bolts and can't see any stones or debris lodged in the underbody.
>
>
> On 5 March 2011 20:19, bergodaz <bergodaz@...> wrote:
>
>
> Michael, try checking your engine mounts- might be worn & parts of the engine knock against the firewall under full power.Alternately check for dirt or stones stuck in the underbody protection frame that could be touching the engine-makes one hell of an awful noise. Best of luck, Eddie.
>
>
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "gregespo73" <gregespo73@> wrote:
> >
> > Michael, This is my post from two weeks ago.
> >
> > Michael, If there is nothing wrong with your cat don't smash it. The sound you are describing, especially combined with a loss of power, sounds like detonation (to me). You need to check your ignition timing. Alternatively if you are not using premium try that and see if it improves or fixes it. If it does the timing is too far advanced. Or better yet stick with premium. Greg E
> >
> > What it sounds like is happening when your mechanic touches the distributor is the cap is moving on the body of the distributor slightly (normal). This has the same effect as loosening the adjustment clamp and turning the distributor (how you set timing). He is in effect retarding the ignition.
> > Mechanics always set the timing on these cars wrong by just hooking up a timing light and setting it to the notch on the crank. The proceedure in the bentley must be followed. Also, don't you have yours on gas? Gas fitters often fit hotter spark plugs, this may also cause detonation (or pinking or pinging).
> > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Phill
> > >
> > > This is good to know. Yes I do have the VW Syncro manual on DVD but
> > > unfortunately stopping when trying to open the PDF files. Gets half way thru
> > > the ignition chapter 11, which is for all aircooled models, before chucking
> > > a wobbly and the disc stops spinning on my macbook pro. I think the CD label
> > > on the disc is to thick. Other CD/ROM and DVD all work. Will try to open
> > > with a friends and print off to give to my mechanic. Anything else I should
> > > look for in the manual?
> > >
> > > On 5 March 2011 17:10, <plander@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The advance is all done in the ECU (computer).
> > > >
> > > > Do you have workshop manuals?
> > > >
> > > > Pinging really does sound like a tinware rattle, especially when going up
> > > > hills at low revs. It is caused by low octane fuel, too much timing advance
> > > > or too high compression.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Phill
> > > >
> > > > > Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > It's definitely a tinny metally rattle vibration, not pinging. Using
> > > > > premium, although must say did use 91ron originally and no rattle then,
> > > > > only
> > > > > recently since using premium. But I don't think it's that .Phill can you
> > > > > give some light re the distributor/ignition system. Both myself and
> > > > > mechanic
> > > > > unsure.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 5 March 2011 16:09, <plander@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are you sure that it's not pinging?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What octane fuel are you using?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Phill
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Guys
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well the problem of the engine bay rattle continues to dog and
> > > > > > > frustrate.
> > > > > > > After leaving the car with the mechanic for 10 days while I was in
> > > > > > > Sydney,
> > > > > > > Jimmy the mechanic in Pambula says that he's found the problem,part
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > tin heat-shield rattling against the engine. But when I take it for
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > test,
> > > > > > > first hill i approach full throttle and it's stiil there .Jim says
> > > > > he
> > > > > > > drove
> > > > > > > it three times and couldn't get it to rattle. So while I drive up
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > hill
> > > > > > > Jim is in the back,engine cover off trying to locate the noise.
> > > > > Fiddles
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > the distributor a bit and noise goes. Drive it around along the flat
> > > > > > > 80k'
> > > > > > > all appears OK. Head home on Hwy first decent incline, foot flat to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > floor, back comes rattle,not quite as heavy but still unmistakably
> > > > > > > there.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My Question. Can anyone shed some light on the type of distributor.
> > > > > It's
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > Bosch. Jim is not sure whether it has a centrifugal something or
> > > > > other,
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > whether it is controlled by computer chip. Personally I still think
> > > > > > > it's a
> > > > > > > metal on metal rattle as it appears to be influenced, at times, by
> > > > > body
> > > > > > > movement,like when hitting a depression in the road surface, this
> > > > > seems
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > exacerbate the sound. Sound comes from the rear passenger side
> > > > > corner.
> > > > > > > Put
> > > > > > > the clutch in and sound stop. Coast down a hill and no rattle,no
> > > > > rattle
> > > > > > > when
> > > > > > > revving in neutral.No rattle when engine is cold. It's not the
> > > > > > > catalytic
> > > > > > > convertor, that OK. It's not pleasant driving the van with this
> > > > > sound,
> > > > > > > very
> > > > > > > unsettling. Any idea's people?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks in advance.
> > > > > > > Michael Rayner.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Regards
>
> Michael
>
> Michael Rayner East Light Photography
> PO Box 144
> MALLACOOTA VIC 3892
>
> MOB: 0409 241 672
> BUS: 0351169401
> A/H: (03)5158 0346
>
> Web: www.michaelraynerphotography.com.au
> Email: michaelrayner@...
>


 

 
Could it be fine cracks or dirt inside the cap causing the spark to leak down to earth causing pinging. Maybe touching it changes the conductive properties. Can't remember if you've tried changing distributor cap and leads? I've had some unusual running problems including pinging with worn out old caps and leads on beetles.

Gary




On 06/03/2011, at 8:41 AM, greg esposito wrote:

 

Sorry Scott had a think about it you are right it would not affect timing. But why would touching the distributor stop the rattle?

--- On Sun, 6/3/11, gregespo73 <gregespo73@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: gregespo73 <gregespo73@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: engine bay rattle
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Received: Sunday, 6 March, 2011, 8:17 AM

 
Scott, Both the relationship between the Hall/optical/points and the distributor shaft and the relationship between the Rotor button/disrtibutor shaft and the cap have an effect on timing. I know its a long bow to draw but I am trying to help Michael fix his car. He says when driving under load his mechanic "touches the distributor" and the rattle stops. Can you offer a tangible solution? Greg E

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <ScottDaniel@...> wrote:
>
> hi all,
> re
> "What it sounds like is happening when your mechanic touches the distributor is the cap is moving on the body of the distributor slightly (normal). This has the same effect as loosening the adjustment clamp and turning the distributor (how you set timing). He is in effect retarding the ignition."
>
> for the sake of great understanding of things technical in the T3 syncro world..
> I'll have to say that is not correct, not at all actually.
> I 'suppose' the distributor cap could fit not perfectly on the distributor body.
> ...however, all the Bosch Dist caps I see fit perfectly tightly...
>
> but here's my main point ..
> even if the dist cap could say rotate 1/8th inch left or right ..
> that would not affect the timing.
> the point if ignition timing is determined in the lower part of the dist ..in the primary circuit ...
> and not in the upper part of the dist ...in the cap and wires part ..that's called the secondary circuit btw ..
>
> for example...suppose one wanted to do a coil wire spark test..
> ( remove coil wire from center of dist cap , arrange end of coil wire by engine block , crank engine on starter to watch for a nice fat spark. )
> - many people think the distributor cap has to be on for this test ..it does not ..
> the ignition is developed in the lower part of the dist along with the coil ..and circuits in the ECU ..
> The upper part merely distributor the spark to the right cylinder ..
> it's two separate circuits mounted in common on one shaft.
> other than that, they really don't have much to do with each other.
>
> and the cap being a little loose won't affect the ignition timing per se.
> And ..a proper Bosch cap should fit quite tightly and not move at all anyway . .
>
> Scott
> www.turbovans.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael Rayner
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 3:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: engine bay rattle
>
>
>
> Eddie
>
>
>
> Thanks for that but been right through the underbody tightening all nuts and bolts and can't see any stones or debris lodged in the underbody.
>
>
> On 5 March 2011 20:19, bergodaz <bergodaz@...> wrote:
>
>
> Michael, try checking your engine mounts- might be worn & parts of the engine knock against the firewall under full power.Alternately check for dirt or stones stuck in the underbody protection frame that could be touching the engine-makes one hell of an awful noise. Best of luck, Eddie.
>
>
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "gregespo73" <gregespo73@> wrote:
> >
> > Michael, This is my post from two weeks ago.
> >
> > Michael, If there is nothing wrong with your cat don't smash it. The sound you are describing, especially combined with a loss of power, sounds like detonation (to me). You need to check your ignition timing. Alternatively if you are not using premium try that and see if it improves or fixes it. If it does the timing is too far advanced. Or better yet stick with premium. Greg E
> >
> > What it sounds like is happening when your mechanic touches the distributor is the cap is moving on the body of the distributor slightly (normal). This has the same effect as loosening the adjustment clamp and turning the distributor (how you set timing). He is in effect retarding the ignition.
> > Mechanics always set the timing on these cars wrong by just hooking up a timing light and setting it to the notch on the crank. The proceedure in the bentley must be followed. Also, don't you have yours on gas? Gas fitters often fit hotter spark plugs, this may also cause detonation (or pinking or pinging).
> > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Phill
> > >
> > > This is good to know. Yes I do have the VW Syncro manual on DVD but
> > > unfortunately stopping when trying to open the PDF files. Gets half way thru
> > > the ignition chapter 11, which is for all aircooled models, before chucking
> > > a wobbly and the disc stops spinning on my macbook pro. I think the CD label
> > > on the disc is to thick. Other CD/ROM and DVD all work. Will try to open
> > > with a friends and print off to give to my mechanic. Anything else I should
> > > look for in the manual?
> > >
> > > On 5 March 2011 17:10, <plander@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The advance is all done in the ECU (computer).
> > > >
> > > > Do you have workshop manuals?
> > > >
> > > > Pinging really does sound like a tinware rattle, especially when going up
> > > > hills at low revs. It is caused by low octane fuel, too much timing advance
> > > > or too high compression.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Phill
> > > >
> > > > > Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > It's definitely a tinny metally rattle vibration, not pinging. Using
> > > > > premium, although must say did use 91ron originally and no rattle then,
> > > > > only
> > > > > recently since using premium. But I don't think it's that .Phill can you
> > > > > give some light re the distributor/ignition system. Both myself and
> > > > > mechanic
> > > > > unsure.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 5 March 2011 16:09, <plander@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are you sure that it's not pinging?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What octane fuel are you using?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Phill
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Guys
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well the problem of the engine bay rattle continues to dog and
> > > > > > > frustrate.
> > > > > > > After leaving the car with the mechanic for 10 days while I was in
> > > > > > > Sydney,
> > > > > > > Jimmy the mechanic in Pambula says that he's found the problem,part
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > tin heat-shield rattling against the engine. But when I take it for
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > test,
> > > > > > > first hill i approach full throttle and it's stiil there .Jim says
> > > > > he
> > > > > > > drove
> > > > > > > it three times and couldn't get it to rattle. So while I drive up
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > hill
> > > > > > > Jim is in the back,engine cover off trying to locate the noise.
> > > > > Fiddles
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > the distributor a bit and noise goes. Drive it around along the flat
> > > > > > > 80k'
> > > > > > > all appears OK. Head home on Hwy first decent incline, foot flat to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > floor, back comes rattle,not quite as heavy but still unmistakably
> > > > > > > there.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My Question. Can anyone shed some light on the type of distributor.
> > > > > It's
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > Bosch. Jim is not sure whether it has a centrifugal something or
> > > > > other,
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > whether it is controlled by computer chip. Personally I still think
> > > > > > > it's a
> > > > > > > metal on metal rattle as it appears to be influenced, at times, by
> > > > > body
> > > > > > > movement,like when hitting a depression in the road surface, this
> > > > > seems
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > exacerbate the sound. Sound comes from the rear passenger side
> > > > > corner.
> > > > > > > Put
> > > > > > > the clutch in and sound stop. Coast down a hill and no rattle,no
> > > > > rattle
> > > > > > > when
> > > > > > > revving in neutral.No rattle when engine is cold. It's not the
> > > > > > > catalytic
> > > > > > > convertor, that OK. It's not pleasant driving the van with this
> > > > > sound,
> > > > > > > very
> > > > > > > unsettling. Any idea's people?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks in advance.
> > > > > > > Michael Rayner.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Regards
>
> Michael
>
> Michael Rayner East Light Photography
> PO Box 144
> MALLACOOTA VIC 3892
>
> MOB: 0409 241 672
> BUS: 0351169401
> A/H: (03)5158 0346
>
> Web: www.michaelraynerphotography.com.au
> Email: michaelrayner@...
>


 


Sounds a bit odd..touching the distributor cap causes pinging to stop ... ?
Doesn't make a lot of sense.
has another distributor cap and rotor been tried ?
 
if a spark leaked from cap to dist body ..
I don't see how it could cause pinging ..or 'under load detonation' ..
since if the spark is shorted to ground, the spark plug won't fire ..and there can't be any pinging.
 
re this dist cap thing ..
supposing you could put the dist cap on rotated say, 1/4 inch either way.
This would cause the spark that's moving from center of rotor, to the rotor tip, and then to the terminal in the cap to have to jump a longer distance.
 This slightly longer distance ..since that spark travels at the speed of light ..
would have no affect, not a measurable one, on when the spark plug fires.
 
there is even a semi-common case where it is necessary to index the cap and rotor properly to match when the instant if ignition occurs .........i.e the rotor is pointed exactly to a dist cap terminal right at point of fire..
and that's when installing an aftermarket pointless ignition system ....used to be optical ones by Crane Cams...before that known as Alison electronic ignition.
 You arrange a disc with slots so a double LED light path is broken by the slots in the disc...
point of fire is just when the light path is broken ...since they are generic kits , they'll fit in a few different ways in various engines ...
 so they give you instructions on how to index the cap and rotor correctly ...so they are lined up right at the point of fire.   Even if it's off say 1/4 inch ...that won't delay actual firing of the spark plug., not a measurable amount anyway.
 
If you have a clear case of 'when a human touches the dist cap the sound goes away ' ...you'd think that wouldn't be impossible to fix. or figure out why.  ..
though 'by itself' ..it doesn't make a lot of sense ..
so it's either an extreme oddity ..or there is something else going on.
  The natural thing to do is try some other parts to start with ..
hopefully known-good used ones that T3 owners keep around just for testing , like a whole distributor.
Pretty important part to have a spare of.
I don't drive any T3 van of my own anywhere without known-good used units like that onboard.
 
is the timing set properly ?
Did any body just try tweaking it back a bit ?
Is the idle switch making contact ?
is it really classic pinging ?
 
Scott
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: engine bay rattle

 

Could it be fine cracks or dirt inside the cap causing the spark to leak down to earth causing pinging. Maybe touching it changes the conductive properties. Can't remember if you've tried changing distributor cap and leads? I've had some unusual running problems including pinging with worn out old caps and leads on beetles.


Gary




On 06/03/2011, at 8:41 AM, greg esposito wrote:

 

Sorry Scott had a think about it you are right it would not affect timing. But why would touching the distributor stop the rattle?

--- On Sun, 6/3/11, gregespo73 <gregespo73@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: gregespo73 <gregespo73@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: engine bay rattle
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Received: Sunday, 6 March, 2011, 8:17 AM

 
Scott, Both the relationship between the Hall/optical/points and the distributor shaft and the relationship between the Rotor button/disrtibutor shaft and the cap have an effect on timing. I know its a long bow to draw but I am trying to help Michael fix his car. He says when driving under load his mechanic "touches the distributor" and the rattle stops. Can you offer a tangible solution? Greg E

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <ScottDaniel@...> wrote:
>
> hi all,
> re
> "What it sounds like is happening when your mechanic touches the distributor is the cap is moving on the body of the distributor slightly (normal). This has the same effect as loosening the adjustment clamp and turning the distributor (how you set timing). He is in effect retarding the ignition."
>
> for the sake of great understanding of things technical in the T3 syncro world..
> I'll have to say that is not correct, not at all actually.
> I 'suppose' the distributor cap could fit not perfectly on the distributor body.
> ...however, all the Bosch Dist caps I see fit perfectly tightly...
>
> but here's my main point ..
> even if the dist cap could say rotate 1/8th inch left or right ..
> that would not affect the timing.
> the point if ignition timing is determined in the lower part of the dist ..in the primary circuit ...
> and not in the upper part of the dist ...in the cap and wires part ..that's called the secondary circuit btw ..
>
> for example...suppose one wanted to do a coil wire spark test..
> ( remove coil wire from center of dist cap , arrange end of coil wire by engine block , crank engine on starter to watch for a nice fat spark. )
> - many people think the distributor cap has to be on for this test ..it does not ..
> the ignition is developed in the lower part of the dist along with the coil ..and circuits in the ECU ..
> The upper part merely distributor the spark to the right cylinder ..
> it's two separate circuits mounted in common on one shaft.
> other than that, they really don't have much to do with each other.
>
> and the cap being a little loose won't affect the ignition timing per se.
> And ..a proper Bosch cap should fit quite tightly and not move at all anyway . .
>
> Scott
> www.turbovans.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael Rayner
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 3:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: engine bay rattle
>
>
>
> Eddie
>
>
>
> Thanks for that but been right through the underbody tightening all nuts and bolts and can't see any stones or debris lodged in the underbody.
>
>
> On 5 March 2011 20:19, bergodaz <bergodaz@...> wrote:
>
>
> Michael, try checking your engine mounts- might be worn & parts of the engine knock against the firewall under full power.Alternately check for dirt or stones stuck in the underbody protection frame that could be touching the engine-makes one hell of an awful noise. Best of luck, Eddie.
>
>
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "gregespo73" <gregespo73@> wrote:
> >
> > Michael, This is my post from two weeks ago.
> >
> > Michael, If there is nothing wrong with your cat don't smash it. The sound you are describing, especially combined with a loss of power, sounds like detonation (to me). You need to check your ignition timing. Alternatively if you are not using premium try that and see if it improves or fixes it. If it does the timing is too far advanced. Or better yet stick with premium. Greg E
> >
> > What it sounds like is happening when your mechanic touches the distributor is the cap is moving on the body of the distributor slightly (normal). This has the same effect as loosening the adjustment clamp and turning the distributor (how you set timing). He is in effect retarding the ignition.
> > Mechanics always set the timing on these cars wrong by just hooking up a timing light and setting it to the notch on the crank. The proceedure in the bentley must be followed. Also, don't you have yours on gas? Gas fitters often fit hotter spark plugs, this may also cause detonation (or pinking or pinging).
> > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Phill
> > >
> > > This is good to know. Yes I do have the VW Syncro manual on DVD but
> > > unfortunately stopping when trying to open the PDF files. Gets half way thru
> > > the ignition chapter 11, which is for all aircooled models, before chucking
> > > a wobbly and the disc stops spinning on my macbook pro. I think the CD label
> > > on the disc is to thick. Other CD/ROM and DVD all work. Will try to open
> > > with a friends and print off to give to my mechanic. Anything else I should
> > > look for in the manual?
> > >
> > > On 5 March 2011 17:10, <plander@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The advance is all done in the ECU (computer).
> > > >
> > > > Do you have workshop manuals?
> > > >
> > > > Pinging really does sound like a tinware rattle, especially when going up
> > > > hills at low revs. It is caused by low octane fuel, too much timing advance
> > > > or too high compression.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Phill
> > > >
> > > > > Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > It's definitely a tinny metally rattle vibration, not pinging. Using
> > > > > premium, although must say did use 91ron originally and no rattle then,
> > > > > only
> > > > > recently since using premium. But I don't think it's that .Phill can you
> > > > > give some light re the distributor/ignition system. Both myself and
> > > > > mechanic
> > > > > unsure.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 5 March 2011 16:09, <plander@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are you sure that it's not pinging?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What octane fuel are you using?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Phill
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Michael Rayner <mallaner@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Guys
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well the problem of the engine bay rattle continues to dog and
> > > > > > > frustrate.
> > > > > > > After leaving the car with the mechanic for 10 days while I was in
> > > > > > > Sydney,
> > > > > > > Jimmy the mechanic in Pambula says that he's found the problem,part
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > tin heat-shield rattling against the engine. But when I take it for
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > test,
> > > > > > > first hill i approach full throttle and it's stiil there .Jim says
> > > > > he
> > > > > > > drove
> > > > > > > it three times and couldn't get it to rattle. So while I drive up
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > hill
> > > > > > > Jim is in the back,engine cover off trying to locate the noise.
> > > > > Fiddles
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > the distributor a bit and noise goes. Drive it around along the flat
> > > > > > > 80k'
> > > > > > > all appears OK. Head home on Hwy first decent incline, foot flat to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > floor, back comes rattle,not quite as heavy but still unmistakably
> > > > > > > there.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My Question. Can anyone shed some light on the type of distributor.
> > > > > It's
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > Bosch. Jim is not sure whether it has a centrifugal something or
> > > > > other,
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > whether it is controlled by computer chip. Personally I still think
> > > > > > > it's a
> > > > > > > metal on metal rattle as it appears to be influenced, at times, by
> > > > > body
> > > > > > > movement,like when hitting a depression in the road surface, this
> > > > > seems
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > exacerbate the sound. Sound comes from the rear passenger side
> > > > > corner.
> > > > > > > Put
> > > > > > > the clutch in and sound stop. Coast down a hill and no rattle,no
> > > > > rattle
> > > > > > > when
> > > > > > > revving in neutral.No rattle when engine is cold. It's not the
> > > > > > > catalytic
> > > > > > > convertor, that OK. It's not pleasant driving the van with this
> > > > > sound,
> > > > > > > very
> > > > > > > unsettling. Any idea's people?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks in advance.
> > > > > > > Michael Rayner.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Regards
>
> Michael
>
> Michael Rayner East Light Photography
> PO Box 144
> MALLACOOTA VIC 3892
>
> MOB: 0409 241 672
> BUS: 0351169401
> A/H: (03)5158 0346
>
> Web: www.michaelraynerphotography.com.au
> Email: michaelrayner@...
>