engineers

101
hi,
yes, basically I concur, that putting really big dollars into just an injection pump rebuild on this engine ( 1.6 ? ) is not a wise investement, considering that you'll only get back to where you were...
an underpowered and possibly pretty tired engine anyway ...so rebuild the injection pump , not a great idea .
 and that's true about injection pumps ....sitting around is not good for them.  It's always a risk to try put on a used one. If the cost is low, and you're doing the work to do it yourself..
not a big deal, but if you have to pay a lot just to get a used pump on...not a great idea.
 
what are your rpm's at say .....100 kph ?
for a gasoline syncro vanagon I'd say that's around 3,600 rpm probably.
If you are turning signficantly higher rpm at 100 kph  than that ...you might have lower than normal gearing , compared to a gasoline syncro.
  Subaru engines turn up to 6,200 rpm ..
so even if one is turning say 4,200 rpm on the highway ..
which would be typical here in the US with standard gasoline gearing and cruising in the 70 mph range .....seems a bit undergreared perhaps ..but it's not really. 
 point is, you might do ok with a good subaru 2.2 with your current gearing.
I don't imagine that you try to cruise for hours at 75 mph.
 
another vw diesel ? ...sure ...1.9 TD or TDI but ......evidently you are not a hard core diesel nut - that's wise !
I know how much people just 'love them' and I drove  a 1.9 turbo diesel T3 with 5 speed trans for about 7 years ..and it was fine. 
 not to go into it too much here, but their unforgiving nature about if anything goes wrong with the timing belt, the cost of rebuidling injection pumps, the lower power, sometimes smoking ..
the more expensive fuel ( here anyway ) the vibration , the smell., etc.
for myself, as long as we can get gasoline ..
there is nothing like an easy starting, smooth running, peppy eager gasoline engine .
the common Subaru EJ22 is 135 hp...does 6K rpm ( which is almost like having another gear , compared to having only 5K rpm total to play with in either waterboxer or vw diesel engine ) .
  Very rewarding is how I regard them.
and there are numberous subaru engines to choose from ..that's just first one of severalsbuaru engines to choose from.   
 And there is a great support group for them online. What's not to like ~ !!
 
 I also say there is no real savings in driving a vw diesel engine ..
in the short term there is on fuel cost savings.
but count the extra expense it takes to get a vw diesel engine in the first place, cost of repairs, and cost of blow-ups and rebuilding injection pumps ...and they are not less expensvie to own long term.  It is not uncommon to read about cylinder head jobs from blown timing belts that cost up to $ 4K US just to be running again.   Anyway, that is not too popular a notion amoung VW diesel people ..but there is truth in what I say, and I have a pretty fair amount of expereince in them.  Have done many turbo diesel conversions to T3's and syncro .  
 I might consider inline four gasoline VW engines too.
lots of those to choose from.  Sometimes inexpenisve to get.  Can be very reliable...
it's all VW ....for that matter you could check into VR6 and VW V-6 engines too .  Those are done.
 
what I suggest to people is first decide 'diesel' or 'gasoline.'
then it it's diesel, it will probably be one of the numerous VW diesels.
if gas ..
then decide japanese, or german, or american etc...
there are Nissan V-6 T3's ...many many subauru ones ... 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder.
I'm working on a 91 Syncro right now..
has a 2006 or so 3.0 Subaur engine ......the timing chain one that comes in what we call a Tribecca minivan/crossover ..
awesome compact engine.  Hp is 245 I think.   The guy paid a shop $ 14,000 US for the engine conversion ..Unfortunately he gets 14 mpg on US gallons ...which is fairly horrific fuel consumption.
sure goes well though ..
I'm sure 80 mph just 'any time' is super easy for this engine and van, a syncro too.
 
there's a guy who just posted his fuel milage in a 2WD T3 with 2.2 Subaru  engine ..
does about 20 mpg at 70ish mph, and got one tank at 21.3 mpg I think...
which is not bad, and better than what the stock waterboxer will do.  That was in a Westy Camper too.
 
anyway , some of my thoughts ..
Scott
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 5:52 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Repowering

 

Hi all

I'm after some thoughts on repowering my diesel Syncro.

It's been at a workshop in Thomastown for the last two weeks. When they put it on the dyno it was pumping out an earth shattering 28kw at the wheels.

It seems the fuel pump is totally worn out and needs rebuilding (as per Greg E's excellent online diagnosis ;). Estimated cost of this is minimum $1200, max $1800 plus cost of exploratory work so far and the remove refit is likely to be in the region of $2 to 3k to get it out of there.

I'm getting them to pressure test the engine to try and determine if the compression is up to spec to decide if this is worth doing. I've considered tracking down a secondhand pump and getting them to fit that but that is in itself is a potential can of worms if the pump is also tired. Apparently pumps removed from vehicles have a short shelf life because the seals shrink and harden when not soaking in diesel.

The engine was rebuilt with a new head approx 40k ago but the engineer working on it thinks the poor fuel flow and timing may have been pumping too much fuel in and washing the bores of oil. There is oil in the smoke. The pressure test should reveal any damage this may have caused.

So, do i cut my losses now and put the pump rebuild money into a repower with another VW diesel, VW petrol (inline 4) or a Subaru motor?

If so is there anyone in Melbourne who could do the work?

There is plenty of info available on UK websites on suitable engines and kits where needed for diesels but the supply of suitable donors for diesels in Oz is not great.

Subaru is an option but not sure on the final drive ratio on my diesel which is lower than the wasserboxer equipped vehicles.

Thoughts please?

Cheers
Gary

102
Thanks Scott excellent input 

Are there any issues you know about re putting petrol into the diesel fuel tank? This van is a factory diesel, i'd hate to have to try and remove the fuel tank on top of all this.

I have considered swapping the pump myself for a good one that has recently been removed from a good runner but they are few and far between.

I quite like diesels but own a Subaru Forester also and know what a great little engine they are. 

Cheers
Gary

On 23/07/2010, at 11:42 AM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:

 

hi,
yes, basically I concur, that putting really big dollars into just an injection pump rebuild on this engine ( 1.6 ? ) is not a wise investement, considering that you'll only get back to where you were...
an underpowered and possibly pretty tired engine anyway ...so rebuild the injection pump , not a great idea .
 and that's true about injection pumps ....sitting around is not good for them.  It's always a risk to try put on a used one. If the cost is low, and you're doing the work to do it yourself..
not a big deal, but if you have to pay a lot just to get a used pump on...not a great idea.
 
what are your rpm's at say .....100 kph ?
for a gasoline syncro vanagon I'd say that's around 3,600 rpm probably.
If you are turning signficantly higher rpm at 100 kph  than that ...you might have lower than normal gearing , compared to a gasoline syncro.
  Subaru engines turn up to 6,200 rpm ..
so even if one is turning say 4,200 rpm on the highway ..
which would be typical here in the US with standard gasoline gearing and cruising in the 70 mph range .....seems a bit undergreared perhaps ..but it's not really. 
 point is, you might do ok with a good subaru 2.2 with your current gearing.
I don't imagine that you try to cruise for hours at 75 mph.
 
another vw diesel ? ...sure ...1.9 TD or TDI but ......evidently you are not a hard core diesel nut - that's wise !
I know how much people just 'love them' and I drove  a 1.9 turbo diesel T3 with 5 speed trans for about 7 years ..and it was fine. 
 not to go into it too much here, but their unforgiving nature about if anything goes wrong with the timing belt, the cost of rebuidling injection pumps, the lower power, sometimes smoking ..
the more expensive fuel ( here anyway ) the vibration , the smell., etc.
for myself, as long as we can get gasoline ..
there is nothing like an easy starting, smooth running, peppy eager gasoline engine .
the common Subaru EJ22 is 135 hp...does 6K rpm ( which is almost like having another gear , compared to having only 5K rpm total to play with in either waterboxer or vw diesel engine ) .
  Very rewarding is how I regard them.
and there are numberous subaru engines to choose from ..that's just first one of severalsbuaru engines to choose from.   
 And there is a great support group for them online. What's not to like ~ !!
 
 I also say there is no real savings in driving a vw diesel engine ..
in the short term there is on fuel cost savings.
but count the extra expense it takes to get a vw diesel engine in the first place, cost of repairs, and cost of blow-ups and rebuilding injection pumps ...and they are not less expensvie to own long term.  It is not uncommon to read about cylinder head jobs from blown timing belts that cost up to $ 4K US just to be running again.   Anyway, that is not too popular a notion amoung VW diesel people ..but there is truth in what I say, and I have a pretty fair amount of expereince in them.  Have done many turbo diesel conversions to T3's and syncro .  
 I might consider inline four gasoline VW engines too.
lots of those to choose from.  Sometimes inexpenisve to get.  Can be very reliable...
it's all VW ....for that matter you could check into VR6 and VW V-6 engines too .  Those are done.
 
what I suggest to people is first decide 'diesel' or 'gasoline.'
then it it's diesel, it will probably be one of the numerous VW diesels.
if gas ..
then decide japanese, or german, or american etc...
there are Nissan V-6 T3's ...many many subauru ones ... 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder.
I'm working on a 91 Syncro right now..
has a 2006 or so 3.0 Subaur engine ......the timing chain one that comes in what we call a Tribecca minivan/crossover ..
awesome compact engine.  Hp is 245 I think.   The guy paid a shop $ 14,000 US for the engine conversion ..Unfortunately he gets 14 mpg on US gallons ...which is fairly horrific fuel consumption.
sure goes well though ..
I'm sure 80 mph just 'any time' is super easy for this engine and van, a syncro too.
 
there's a guy who just posted his fuel milage in a 2WD T3 with 2.2 Subaru  engine ..
does about 20 mpg at 70ish mph, and got one tank at 21.3 mpg I think...
which is not bad, and better than what the stock waterboxer will do.  That was in a Westy Camper too.
 
anyway , some of my thoughts ..
Scott
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 5:52 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Repowering

 

Hi all

I'm after some thoughts on repowering my diesel Syncro.

It's been at a workshop in Thomastown for the last two weeks. When they put it on the dyno it was pumping out an earth shattering 28kw at the wheels.

It seems the fuel pump is totally worn out and needs rebuilding (as per Greg E's excellent online diagnosis ;). Estimated cost of this is minimum $1200, max $1800 plus cost of exploratory work so far and the remove refit is likely to be in the region of $2 to 3k to get it out of there.

I'm getting them to pressure test the engine to try and determine if the compression is up to spec to decide if this is worth doing. I've considered tracking down a secondhand pump and getting them to fit that but that is in itself is a potential can of worms if the pump is also tired. Apparently pumps removed from vehicles have a short shelf life because the seals shrink and harden when not soaking in diesel.

The engine was rebuilt with a new head approx 40k ago but the engineer working on it thinks the poor fuel flow and timing may have been pumping too much fuel in and washing the bores of oil. There is oil in the smoke. The pressure test should reveal any damage this may have caused.

So, do i cut my losses now and put the pump rebuild money into a repower with another VW diesel, VW petrol (inline 4) or a Subaru motor?

If so is there anyone in Melbourne who could do the work?

There is plenty of info available on UK websites on suitable engines and kits where needed for diesels but the supply of suitable donors for diesels in Oz is not great.

Subaru is an option but not sure on the final drive ratio on my diesel which is lower than the wasserboxer equipped vehicles.

Thoughts please?

Cheers
Gary



103

Scott,

Thanks for the excellent input.

I will add a couple of items.  All Australian delivered Syncros came with 5.43, a factor to be considered when looking at engine changes.

Diesel in Australia is a lot more expensive than petrol and this is never going to change, so amortisation will take an unrealistically long time.

Les

_,_._,___

104
I have swapped a few fuel tanks from diesel to gasoline.
 
all I do is drain and pump out all I can ..
then dilute that with gasoline .
then pump out all of that that I can ..
and then fill it with gas.
Should work fine.
 
on a syncro gasoline tank there is a very fine screen or strainer that probably is not in the diesel tank ..
but I wouldn't think that would be a problem , just switching it over to petrol.
 
no, you don't want to remove a syncro fuel tank if you can help it.
Nasty, nasty job.
 
scott
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Repowering

 

Thanks Scott excellent input 


Are there any issues you know about re putting petrol into the diesel fuel tank? This van is a factory diesel, i'd hate to have to try and remove the fuel tank on top of all this.

I have considered swapping the pump myself for a good one that has recently been removed from a good runner but they are few and far between.

I quite like diesels but own a Subaru Forester also and know what a great little engine they are. 

Cheers
Gary

On 23/07/2010, at 11:42 AM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:

 

hi,
yes, basically I concur, that putting really big dollars into just an injection pump rebuild on this engine ( 1.6 ? ) is not a wise investement, considering that you'll only get back to where you were...
an underpowered and possibly pretty tired engine anyway ...so rebuild the injection pump , not a great idea .
 and that's true about injection pumps ....sitting around is not good for them.  It's always a risk to try put on a used one. If the cost is low, and you're doing the work to do it yourself..
not a big deal, but if you have to pay a lot just to get a used pump on...not a great idea.
 
what are your rpm's at say .....100 kph ?
for a gasoline syncro vanagon I'd say that's around 3,600 rpm probably.
If you are turning signficantly higher rpm at 100 kph  than that ...you might have lower than normal gearing , compared to a gasoline syncro.
  Subaru engines turn up to 6,200 rpm ..
so even if one is turning say 4,200 rpm on the highway ..
which would be typical here in the US with standard gasoline gearing and cruising in the 70 mph range .....seems a bit undergreared perhaps ..but it's not really. 
 point is, you might do ok with a good subaru 2.2 with your current gearing.
I don't imagine that you try to cruise for hours at 75 mph.
 
another vw diesel ? ...sure ...1.9 TD or TDI but ......evidently you are not a hard core diesel nut - that's wise !
I know how much people just 'love them' and I drove  a 1.9 turbo diesel T3 with 5 speed trans for about 7 years ..and it was fine. 
 not to go into it too much here, but their unforgiving nature about if anything goes wrong with the timing belt, the cost of rebuidling injection pumps, the lower power, sometimes smoking ..
the more expensive fuel ( here anyway ) the vibration , the smell., etc.
for myself, as long as we can get gasoline ..
there is nothing like an easy starting, smooth running, peppy eager gasoline engine .
the common Subaru EJ22 is 135 hp...does 6K rpm ( which is almost like having another gear , compared to having only 5K rpm total to play with in either waterboxer or vw diesel engine ) .
  Very rewarding is how I regard them.
and there are numberous subaru engines to choose from ..that's just first one of severalsbuaru engines to choose from.   
 And there is a great support group for them online. What's not to like ~ !!
 
 I also say there is no real savings in driving a vw diesel engine ..
in the short term there is on fuel cost savings.
but count the extra expense it takes to get a vw diesel engine in the first place, cost of repairs, and cost of blow-ups and rebuilding injection pumps ...and they are not less expensvie to own long term.  It is not uncommon to read about cylinder head jobs from blown timing belts that cost up to $ 4K US just to be running again.   Anyway, that is not too popular a notion amoung VW diesel people ..but there is truth in what I say, and I have a pretty fair amount of expereince in them.  Have done many turbo diesel conversions to T3's and syncro .  
 I might consider inline four gasoline VW engines too.
lots of those to choose from.  Sometimes inexpenisve to get.  Can be very reliable...
it's all VW ....for that matter you could check into VR6 and VW V-6 engines too .  Those are done.
 
what I suggest to people is first decide 'diesel' or 'gasoline.'
then it it's diesel, it will probably be one of the numerous VW diesels.
if gas ..
then decide japanese, or german, or american etc...
there are Nissan V-6 T3's ...many many subauru ones ... 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder.
I'm working on a 91 Syncro right now..
has a 2006 or so 3.0 Subaur engine ......the timing chain one that comes in what we call a Tribecca minivan/crossover ..
awesome compact engine.  Hp is 245 I think.   The guy paid a shop $ 14,000 US for the engine conversion ..Unfortunately he gets 14 mpg on US gallons ...which is fairly horrific fuel consumption.
sure goes well though ..
I'm sure 80 mph just 'any time' is super easy for this engine and van, a syncro too.
 
there's a guy who just posted his fuel milage in a 2WD T3 with 2.2 Subaru  engine ..
does about 20 mpg at 70ish mph, and got one tank at 21.3 mpg I think...
which is not bad, and better than what the stock waterboxer will do.  That was in a Westy Camper too.
 
anyway , some of my thoughts ..
Scott
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 5:52 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Repowering

 

Hi all

I'm after some thoughts on repowering my diesel Syncro.

It's been at a workshop in Thomastown for the last two weeks. When they put it on the dyno it was pumping out an earth shattering 28kw at the wheels.

It seems the fuel pump is totally worn out and needs rebuilding (as per Greg E's excellent online diagnosis ;). Estimated cost of this is minimum $1200, max $1800 plus cost of exploratory work so far and the remove refit is likely to be in the region of $2 to 3k to get it out of there.

I'm getting them to pressure test the engine to try and determine if the compression is up to spec to decide if this is worth doing. I've considered tracking down a secondhand pump and getting them to fit that but that is in itself is a potential can of worms if the pump is also tired. Apparently pumps removed from vehicles have a short shelf life because the seals shrink and harden when not soaking in diesel.

The engine was rebuilt with a new head approx 40k ago but the engineer working on it thinks the poor fuel flow and timing may have been pumping too much fuel in and washing the bores of oil. There is oil in the smoke. The pressure test should reveal any damage this may have caused.

So, do i cut my losses now and put the pump rebuild money into a repower with another VW diesel, VW petrol (inline 4) or a Subaru motor?

If so is there anyone in Melbourne who could do the work?

There is plenty of info available on UK websites on suitable engines and kits where needed for diesels but the supply of suitable donors for diesels in Oz is not great.

Subaru is an option but not sure on the final drive ratio on my diesel which is lower than the wasserboxer equipped vehicles.

Thoughts please?

Cheers
Gary



105
that sure is a low ring and pinion ratio.
with larger tires and an engine that doesn't mind a few rpm .....and you're not trying to go say 140 Kph very often ...should work out well enough I'd think.
 
Diesel was probably less than your regular petro there, once upon a time.
In this last big gas crisis we had about 3 years ago ..
diesel got even more expensive than premium petrol ..
and it's still about the same price as mid-grade petrol,
and it's not likely that it will get below the price of petrol from what I can gather, at least not for the foreseeble future.
  from what I have read the refinning process dictates how much petro or diesel can be made from a barrel of oil. I read that in europe, where they burn a lot of diesel...with the refinning process they use, they end up with ...I think this is right..
with more petrol than they really need, and they export petrol. 
 
I recognize only 5 advantages of diesel that I can see so far ..
 
ability to run biofuels - can even run on cooking oil from the grocery store in an emergency
further range on a given load of fuel
better fuel milage
less fire hazzard
and the other one escapes me right now ..maybe better low end torque .
 
and it used to be 'simplicty thus reliability' ..
but I don't think that's the case any more too much ..
modern eletronics are so reliable in petrol engines .
and the unforgving nature of diesel engines....well, in a Mercedes ....those are super well made and will run indefenitey until finally the timing chain wears out ..
but in VW diesels....really, I am reading about blown tdi turbo's and broken timing belts all to commonly.
 
then when you factor in rougher running, smoking sometimes, smelly sometimes ...and lower power in many versions .....
been there done that !
lol.
Scott
turbovans
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Les Harris
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:15 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Repowering

 

Scott,

Thanks for the excellent input.

I will add a couple of items.  All Australian delivered Syncros came with 5.43, a factor to be considered when looking at engine changes.

Diesel in Australia is a lot more expensive than petrol and this is never going to change, so amortisation will take an unrealistically long time.

Les

_,_._,___

106
Gary, surely the rest of the family wouldn't mind if you cannabalised your Forester, and ended up with a Subaru-powered camp mobile? But then again, maybe they might...

Glad to see you're getting some really good advice, anyway, and I hope more rolls in. It's quite a project and there's a lot to weigh up.

Good luck,

Francesca.

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <ScottDaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:

that sure is a low ring and pinion ratio.
with larger tires and an engine that doesn't mind a few rpm .....and you're not trying to go say 140 Kph very often ...should work out well enough I'd think.
Diesel was probably less than your regular petro there, once upon a time.
In this last big gas crisis we had about 3 years ago ..
diesel got even more expensive than premium petrol ..
and it's still about the same price as mid-grade petrol,
and it's not likely that it will get below the price of petrol from what I can gather, at least not for the foreseeble future.
from what I have read the refinning process dictates how much petro or diesel can be made from a barrel of oil. I read that in europe, where they burn a lot of diesel...with the refinning process they use, they end up with ...I think this is right..
with more petrol than they really need, and they export petrol.
I recognize only 5 advantages of diesel that I can see so far ..
ability to run biofuels - can even run on cooking oil from the grocery store in an emergency
further range on a given load of fuel
better fuel milage
less fire hazzard
and the other one escapes me right now ..maybe better low end torque .
and it used to be 'simplicty thus reliability' ..
but I don't think that's the case any more too much ..
modern eletronics are so reliable in petrol engines .
and the unforgving nature of diesel engines....well, in a Mercedes ....those are super well made and will run indefenitey until finally the timing chain wears out ..
but in VW diesels....really, I am reading about blown tdi turbo's and broken timing belts all to commonly.
then when you factor in rougher running, smoking sometimes, smelly sometimes ...and lower power in many versions .....
been there done that !
lol.
Scott
turbovans
----- Original Message -----
From: Les Harris
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:15 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Repowering

Scott,

Thanks for the excellent input.

I will add a couple of items. All Australian delivered Syncros came with 5.43, a factor to be considered when looking at engine changes.

Diesel in Australia is a lot more expensive than petrol and this is never going to change, so amortisation will take an unrealistically long time.

Les

_,_._,___


107

Scott,

There is an interesting history of diesel prices in Australia . 

Back around 1960, I owned a DA170 diesel Mercedes.  At that time, diesel was half the price of petrol and all long-haul trucks in Australia were diesel.  Australia is a very big place and the vast majority of freight has always been moved by truck.

Some clever bastard in the government of the day saw a golden opportunity to rip off the whole of Australia and doubled the price of diesel overnight.  They jacked up the excise, which goes 100% to the government, and made the price equal to petrol.  Freight rates soared in proportion and a large number of trucking companies went broke when they could no longer compete with the big companies.

Needless to say, no subsequent government saw fit to reverse this massive monetary windfall.  Since then, the price of diesel has gradually moved up even further and is now substantially more than petrol. 

Given the constant improvement in petrol engine technology and the ever improving fuel consumption, there is little incentive in Australia to buy new diesel engined cars.

Les

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Scott Daniel - Turbovans
Sent: 23 July 2010 12:40
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Repowering

 

Diesel was probably less than your regular petro there, once upon a time.  In this last big gas crisis we had about 3 years ago . . . diesel got even more expensive than premium petrol . . . and it's still about the same price as mid-grade petrol, and it's not likely that it will get below the price of petrol from what I can gather, at least not for the foreseeble future.

 ._,___

108

Scott,

I thought so when I first bought my Syncro but have since found that this gearing makes for very easy travelling on gravel roads. 

The combination of gear spread, final drive ratio, weight distribution and very precise handling results in being very comfortable at speeds that most vehicles on the same roads just can’t maintain.

Les

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Scott Daniel - Turbovans
Sent: 23 July 2010 12:40
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Repowering

 

 

that sure is a low ring and pinion ratio.

with larger tires and an engine that doesn't mind a few rpm .....and you're not trying to go say 140 Kph very often ...should work out well enough I'd think.

 

 ._,___

109
Les,
 
In Sydney, I regularly see Diesel the same if not cheaper than standard unleaded. It is nearly always cheaper than premium 95 and loads cheaper than the top of the range premium 98.
 
Our fuel prices fluctuate up to 20c/L in Sydney depending on the day of the week you buy it. Hence, one day standard unleaded (if you can find it now) is cheaper and three days later it is more expensive.
 
Diesel does not seem to get the discount that standard unleaded petrol does for some reason that escapes me.
 
Just about every work van I see these days in Sydney (I am in the Building Trade and see lots of them) is diesel powered and lots of new smaller cars are now diesel powered like Golfs and Hyundai i30's etc.
 
Just my observation as I buy all the fuel in my immediate family - my boss doesn't like going to the servo as she usually has the kids in the car and hence I just fill up the syncro from jerry cans.
 
Cheers,
 
Skot
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Les Harris
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 1:16 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Repowering

 

Scott,

There is an interesting history of diesel prices in Australia . 

Back around 1960, I owned a DA170 diesel Mercedes.  At that time, diesel was half the price of petrol and all long-haul trucks in Australia were diesel.  Australia is a very big place and the vast majority of freight has always been moved by truck.

Some clever bastard in the government of the day saw a golden opportunity to rip off the whole of Australia and doubled the price of diesel overnight.  They jacked up the excise, which goes 100% to the government, and made the price equal to petrol.  Freight rates soared in proportion and a large number of trucking companies went broke when they could no longer compete with the big companies.

Needless to say, no subsequent government saw fit to reverse this massive monetary windfall.  Since then, the price of diesel has gradually moved up even further and is now substantially more than petrol. 

Given the constant improvement in petrol engine technology and the ever improving fuel consumption, there is little incentive in Australia to buy new diesel engined cars.

Les

From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Scott Daniel - Turbovans
Sent: 23 July 2010 12:40
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Repowering

Diesel was probably less than your regular petro there, once upon a time.  In this last big gas crisis we had about 3 years ago . . . diesel got even more expensive than premium petrol . . . and it's still about the same price as mid-grade petrol, and it's not likely that it will get below the price of petrol from what I can gather, at least not for the foreseeble future.

 ._,___

110
Gary, Lots of things to consider, I think a big thing to consider is if you are paying someone to do the job the less modification involved, the better (for you bank balance). The subi will involve a bellhousing, mounting, hose and wiring adaption. Converting to petrol - easiest solution would be to wreck a cheap 2wd (as scott said your tank will be fine with a flush). Then I think the easiest solution is a 1.9tdi with a mechanical pump. As I understand it same bell housing, mounting, plumbing and wiring more or less. You may have to pay through the nose for the pump but compared to labour involved in the other options it is viable. Have you tried to get price and avilability of an AZZ? Greg E

--- On Fri, 23/7/10, Francesca Coles <fcoles6@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Francesca Coles <fcoles6@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Repowering
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Received: Friday, 23 July, 2010, 1:11 PM

 
Gary, surely the rest of the family wouldn't mind if you cannabalised your Forester, and ended up with a Subaru-powered camp mobile? But then again, maybe they might... 

Glad to see you're getting some really good advice, anyway, and I hope more rolls in. It's quite a project and there's a lot to weigh up.

Good luck,

Francesca.

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <ScottDaniel@ turbovans. com> wrote:
 
that sure is a low ring and pinion ratio.
with larger tires and an engine that doesn't mind a few rpm .....and you're not trying to go say 140 Kph very often ...should work out well enough I'd think.
 
Diesel was probably less than your regular petro there, once upon a time.
In this last big gas crisis we had about 3 years ago ..
diesel got even more expensive than premium petrol ..
and it's still about the same price as mid-grade petrol,
and it's not likely that it will get below the price of petrol from what I can gather, at least not for the foreseeble future.
  from what I have read the refinning process dictates how much petro or diesel can be made from a barrel of oil. I read that in europe, where they burn a lot of diesel...with the refinning process they use, they end up with ...I think this is right..
with more petrol than they really need, and they export petrol. 
 
I recognize only 5 advantages of diesel that I can see so far ..
 
ability to run biofuels - can even run on cooking oil from the grocery store in an emergency
further range on a given load of fuel
better fuel milage
less fire hazzard
and the other one escapes me right now ..maybe better low end torque .
 
and it used to be 'simplicty thus reliability' ..
but I don't think that's the case any more too much ..
modern eletronics are so reliable in petrol engines .
and the unforgving nature of diesel engines....well, in a Mercedes ....those are super well made and will run indefenitey until finally the timing chain wears out ..
but in VW diesels....really, I am reading about blown tdi turbo's and broken timing belts all to commonly.
 
then when you factor in rougher running, smoking sometimes, smelly sometimes ...and lower power in many versions .....
been there done that !
lol.
Scott
turbovans
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Les Harris
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:15 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Repowering

 

Scott,

Thanks for the excellent input.

I will add a couple of items.  All Australian delivered Syncros came with 5.43, a factor to be considered when looking at engine changes.

Diesel in Australia is a lot more expensive than petrol and this is never going to change, so amortisation will take an unrealistically long time.

Les

_,_._,___



 
111

a conversion to an AAZ is pretty straightforward.
most of it all bolts in where a 1.6 TD was.
you'll need to make the whole exhaust system pretty much ..
but that's not hard really.
and since AAZ's are 'car' ( jetta/golf ) engines you need to swap over many parts from the old engine to get the new engine into Syncro configuration ..
like flywheel, oil pan, clutch,. engine mounts,  etc. 
and need to make or find a proper air box for the air filter. ..
though come to think of it, the stock 1.6 TD syncro air box should be fine.
 
but sure, if you can find one, and want to stay diesel..
they're all right.  75 horsepower.   Considerably better than a 1.6 TD . 
 
for sure, a Subaru conversion is not a light undertaking ..
guy here just got a quote of $ 8,900 US ........not including the used Subaru engine . 
 
they are a lot of work to do. Many people do them for themselves at home.
that saves 3 or 4,000 dollars, even more, depending on how you do it.
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Repowering

 

Gary, Lots of things to consider, I think a big thing to consider is if you are paying someone to do the job the less modification involved, the better (for you bank balance). The subi will involve a bellhousing, mounting, hose and wiring adaption. Converting to petrol - easiest solution would be to wreck a cheap 2wd (as scott said your tank will be fine with a flush). Then I think the easiest solution is a 1.9tdi with a mechanical pump. As I understand it same bell housing, mounting, plumbing and wiring more or less. You may have to pay through the nose for the pump but compared to labour involved in the other options it is viable. Have you tried to get price and avilability of an AZZ? Greg E

--- On Fri, 23/7/10, Francesca Coles <fcoles6@gmail. com> wrote:

From: Francesca Coles <fcoles6@gmail. com>
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Repowering
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Received: Friday, 23 July, 2010, 1:11 PM

 
Gary, surely the rest of the family wouldn't mind if you cannabalised your Forester, and ended up with a Subaru-powered camp mobile? But then again, maybe they might... 

Glad to see you're getting some really good advice, anyway, and I hope more rolls in. It's quite a project and there's a lot to weigh up.

Good luck,

Francesca.

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <ScottDaniel@ turbovans. com> wrote:
 
that sure is a low ring and pinion ratio.
with larger tires and an engine that doesn't mind a few rpm .....and you're not trying to go say 140 Kph very often ...should work out well enough I'd think.
 
Diesel was probably less than your regular petro there, once upon a time.
In this last big gas crisis we had about 3 years ago ..
diesel got even more expensive than premium petrol ..
and it's still about the same price as mid-grade petrol,
and it's not likely that it will get below the price of petrol from what I can gather, at least not for the foreseeble future.
  from what I have read the refinning process dictates how much petro or diesel can be made from a barrel of oil. I read that in europe, where they burn a lot of diesel...with the refinning process they use, they end up with ...I think this is right..
with more petrol than they really need, and they export petrol. 
 
I recognize only 5 advantages of diesel that I can see so far ..
 
ability to run biofuels - can even run on cooking oil from the grocery store in an emergency
further range on a given load of fuel
better fuel milage
less fire hazzard
and the other one escapes me right now ..maybe better low end torque .
 
and it used to be 'simplicty thus reliability' ..
but I don't think that's the case any more too much ..
modern eletronics are so reliable in petrol engines .
and the unforgving nature of diesel engines....well, in a Mercedes ....those are super well made and will run indefenitey until finally the timing chain wears out ..
but in VW diesels....really, I am reading about blown tdi turbo's and broken timing belts all to commonly.
 
then when you factor in rougher running, smoking sometimes, smelly sometimes ...and lower power in many versions .....
been there done that !
lol.
Scott
turbovans
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Les Harris
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:15 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Repowering

 

Scott,

Thanks for the excellent input.

I will add a couple of items.  All Australian delivered Syncros came with 5.43, a factor to be considered when looking at engine changes.

Diesel in Australia is a lot more expensive than petrol and this is never going to change, so amortisation will take an unrealistically long time.

Les

_,_._,___



 

112
Thanks Scott, I think this might be my easiest route, the current diesel is very frugal even when overfuelling like it has been.

Looks like some long nights in front of the computer ahead of me followed by some trips to the scrapper...

Gary

[2 0 / 2 1 Design]
28 Gwynne St
Richmond
Vic 3121
gary@twentytwentyone.net
www.twentytwentyone.net
Tel 3 9429 1868
Fax 3 9421 1110
Mob 0417 352782

On 23/07/2010, at 1:58 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:

 



a conversion to an AAZ is pretty straightforward.
most of it all bolts in where a 1.6 TD was.
you'll need to make the whole exhaust system pretty much ..
but that's not hard really.
and since AAZ's are 'car' ( jetta/golf ) engines you need to swap over many parts from the old engine to get the new engine into Syncro configuration ..
like flywheel, oil pan, clutch,. engine mounts,  etc. 
and need to make or find a proper air box for the air filter. ..
though come to think of it, the stock 1.6 TD syncro air box should be fine.
 
but sure, if you can find one, and want to stay diesel..
they're all right.  75 horsepower.   Considerably better than a 1.6 TD . 
 
for sure, a Subaru conversion is not a light undertaking ..
guy here just got a quote of $ 8,900 US ........not including the used Subaru engine . 
 
they are a lot of work to do. Many people do them for themselves at home.
that saves 3 or 4,000 dollars, even more, depending on how you do it.
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Repowering

 

Gary, Lots of things to consider, I think a big thing to consider is if you are paying someone to do the job the less modification involved, the better (for you bank balance). The subi will involve a bellhousing, mounting, hose and wiring adaption. Converting to petrol - easiest solution would be to wreck a cheap 2wd (as scott said your tank will be fine with a flush). Then I think the easiest solution is a 1.9tdi with a mechanical pump. As I understand it same bell housing, mounting, plumbing and wiring more or less. You may have to pay through the nose for the pump but compared to labour involved in the other options it is viable. Have you tried to get price and avilability of an AZZ? Greg E

--- On Fri, 23/7/10, Francesca Coles <fcoles6@gmail. com> wrote:

From: Francesca Coles <fcoles6@gmail. com>
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Repowering
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Received: Friday, 23 July, 2010, 1:11 PM

 
Gary, surely the rest of the family wouldn't mind if you cannabalised your Forester, and ended up with a Subaru-powered camp mobile? But then again, maybe they might... 

Glad to see you're getting some really good advice, anyway, and I hope more rolls in. It's quite a project and there's a lot to weigh up.

Good luck,

Francesca.

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <ScottDaniel@ turbovans. com> wrote:
 
that sure is a low ring and pinion ratio.
with larger tires and an engine that doesn't mind a few rpm .....and you're not trying to go say 140 Kph very often ...should work out well enough I'd think.
 
Diesel was probably less than your regular petro there, once upon a time.
In this last big gas crisis we had about 3 years ago ..
diesel got even more expensive than premium petrol ..
and it's still about the same price as mid-grade petrol,
and it's not likely that it will get below the price of petrol from what I can gather, at least not for the foreseeble future.
  from what I have read the refinning process dictates how much petro or diesel can be made from a barrel of oil. I read that in europe, where they burn a lot of diesel...with the refinning process they use, they end up with ...I think this is right..
with more petrol than they really need, and they export petrol. 
 
I recognize only 5 advantages of diesel that I can see so far ..
 
ability to run biofuels - can even run on cooking oil from the grocery store in an emergency
further range on a given load of fuel
better fuel milage
less fire hazzard
and the other one escapes me right now ..maybe better low end torque .
 
and it used to be 'simplicty thus reliability' ..
but I don't think that's the case any more too much ..
modern eletronics are so reliable in petrol engines .
and the unforgving nature of diesel engines....well, in a Mercedes ....those are super well made and will run indefenitey until finally the timing chain wears out ..
but in VW diesels....really, I am reading about blown tdi turbo's and broken timing belts all to commonly.
 
then when you factor in rougher running, smoking sometimes, smelly sometimes ...and lower power in many versions .....
been there done that !
lol.
Scott
turbovans
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Les Harris
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:15 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Repowering

 

Scott,

Thanks for the excellent input.

I will add a couple of items.  All Australian delivered Syncros came with 5.43, a factor to be considered when looking at engine changes.

Diesel in Australia is a lot more expensive than petrol and this is never going to change, so amortisation will take an unrealistically long time.

Les

_,_._,___



 



113
Greg, i think this is my most viable solution. An AAZ seems to be a pretty similar engine to the 1.6td. I'm about to move my business into new premises and there is a storage area just big enough to get a dirty stinking old syncro into for a bit of a stripdown...

I'll wait to get the verdict on the state of compression and then consider the pump rebuild first. 

[2 0 / 2 1 Design]
28 Gwynne St
Richmond
Vic 3121
gary@twentytwentyone.net
www.twentytwentyone.net
Tel 3 9429 1868
Fax 3 9421 1110
Mob 0417 352782

On 23/07/2010, at 1:42 PM, greg esposito wrote:

 

Gary, Lots of things to consider, I think a big thing to consider is if you are paying someone to do the job the less modification involved, the better (for you bank balance). The subi will involve a bellhousing, mounting, hose and wiring adaption. Converting to petrol - easiest solution would be to wreck a cheap 2wd (as scott said your tank will be fine with a flush). Then I think the easiest solution is a 1.9tdi with a mechanical pump. As I understand it same bell housing, mounting, plumbing and wiring more or less. You may have to pay through the nose for the pump but compared to labour involved in the other options it is viable. Have you tried to get price and avilability of an AZZ? Greg E

--- On Fri, 23/7/10, Francesca Coles <fcoles6@gmail. com> wrote:

From: Francesca Coles <fcoles6@gmail. com>
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Repowering
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Received: Friday, 23 July, 2010, 1:11 PM

 
Gary, surely the rest of the family wouldn't mind if you cannabalised your Forester, and ended up with a Subaru-powered camp mobile? But then again, maybe they might... 

Glad to see you're getting some really good advice, anyway, and I hope more rolls in. It's quite a project and there's a lot to weigh up.

Good luck,

Francesca.

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <ScottDaniel@ turbovans. com> wrote:
 
that sure is a low ring and pinion ratio.
with larger tires and an engine that doesn't mind a few rpm .....and you're not trying to go say 140 Kph very often ...should work out well enough I'd think.
 
Diesel was probably less than your regular petro there, once upon a time.
In this last big gas crisis we had about 3 years ago ..
diesel got even more expensive than premium petrol ..
and it's still about the same price as mid-grade petrol,
and it's not likely that it will get below the price of petrol from what I can gather, at least not for the foreseeble future.
  from what I have read the refinning process dictates how much petro or diesel can be made from a barrel of oil. I read that in europe, where they burn a lot of diesel...with the refinning process they use, they end up with ...I think this is right..
with more petrol than they really need, and they export petrol. 
 
I recognize only 5 advantages of diesel that I can see so far ..
 
ability to run biofuels - can even run on cooking oil from the grocery store in an emergency
further range on a given load of fuel
better fuel milage
less fire hazzard
and the other one escapes me right now ..maybe better low end torque .
 
and it used to be 'simplicty thus reliability' ..
but I don't think that's the case any more too much ..
modern eletronics are so reliable in petrol engines .
and the unforgving nature of diesel engines....well, in a Mercedes ....those are super well made and will run indefenitey until finally the timing chain wears out ..
but in VW diesels....really, I am reading about blown tdi turbo's and broken timing belts all to commonly.
 
then when you factor in rougher running, smoking sometimes, smelly sometimes ...and lower power in many versions .....
been there done that !
lol.
Scott
turbovans
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Les Harris
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:15 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Repowering

 

Scott,

Thanks for the excellent input.

I will add a couple of items.  All Australian delivered Syncros came with 5.43, a factor to be considered when looking at engine changes.

Diesel in Australia is a lot more expensive than petrol and this is never going to change, so amortisation will take an unrealistically long time.

Les

_,_._,___



 


114
That would be smart move IMHO. My Syncro 16 had a JX (1.6td) engine. I converted to the AAZ (1.9td). It might seem like a dramatic change in horsepower but the seat of my pants can sure tell. I've used it to pull out a 12" diameter tree stump in front yard.

Scott Foss touched on some issues but I need to add a few:

1) turbo is at lower position which can be unnerving when you traverse that first puddle of water. People have complained of damaging turbos.

2) airbox needs to be relocated. You would need to make some plumbing changes. If you are going to do that, you may as well use an better airbox such as the Donaldson. The early round Range Rover airbox works too.

3) the turbo in the AAZ is smaller than the one in the JX. It doesn't hurt lower RPM performance by much yet gets you more in the top end. Better for highway cruising.

4) you can economically equip your AAZ with the Blackstone intercooler from. SAAB 900. With the JX turbo plus the intercooler 110hp is not difficult.

Anyway, the conversion is a known quantity. You already have all the hardware necessary to do the conversion besides the exhaust downpipe. That an be connected to you old exhaust system.



Regards,


BenT

Sent from my mobile device

On Jul 22, 2010, at 9:34 PM, Gary Cookson <gary@twentytwentyone.net> wrote:

Greg, i think this is my most viable solution. An AAZ seems to be a pretty similar engine to the 1.6td. I'm about to move my business into new premises and there is a storage area just big enough to get a dirty stinking old syncro into for a bit of a stripdown...

I'll wait to get the verdict on the state of compression and then consider the pump rebuild first. 

115

Although about every soul in the group knows that there is an AAZ  127 000

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary Cookson
Sent: Friday, 23 July 2010 2:34 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Repowering

 

 

Greg, i think this is my most viable solution. An AAZ seems to be a pretty similar engine to the 1.6td. I'm about to move my business into new premises and there is a storage area just big enough to get a dirty stinking old syncro into for a bit of a stripdown...

 

I'll wait to get the verdict on the state of compression and then consider the pump rebuild first. 

 

[2 0 / 2 1 Design]
28 Gwynne St
Richmond
Vic 3121
gary@twentytwentyone.net
www.twentytwentyone.net
Tel 3 9429 1868
Fax 3 9421 1110
Mob 0417 352782

 

On 23/07/2010, at 1:42 PM, greg esposito wrote:



 

Gary, Lots of things to consider, I think a big thing to consider is if you are paying someone to do the job the less modification involved, the better (for you bank balance). The subi will involve a bellhousing, mounting, hose and wiring adaption. Converting to petrol - easiest solution would be to wreck a cheap 2wd (as scott said your tank will be fine with a flush). Then I think the easiest solution is a 1.9tdi with a mechanical pump. As I understand it same bell housing, mounting, plumbing and wiring more or less. You may have to pay through the nose for the pump but compared to labour involved in the other options it is viable. Have you tried to get price and avilability of an AZZ? Greg E

--- On Fri, 23/7/10, Francesca Coles <fcoles6@gmail.com> wrote:


From: Francesca Coles <fcoles6@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Repowering
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Received: Friday, 23 July, 2010, 1:11 PM

 

Gary, surely the rest of the family wouldn't mind if you cannabalised your Forester, and ended up with a Subaru-powered camp mobile? But then again, maybe they might... 

 

Glad to see you're getting some really good advice, anyway, and I hope more rolls in. It's quite a project and there's a lot to weigh up.

 

Good luck,

 

Francesca.

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <ScottDaniel@ turbovans. com> wrote:

 

that sure is a low ring and pinion ratio.

with larger tires and an engine that doesn't mind a few rpm .....and you're not trying to go say 140 Kph very often ...should work out well enough I'd think.

 

Diesel was probably less than your regular petro there, once upon a time.

In this last big gas crisis we had about 3 years ago ..

diesel got even more expensive than premium petrol ..

and it's still about the same price as mid-grade petrol,

and it's not likely that it will get below the price of petrol from what I can gather, at least not for the foreseeble future.

  from what I have read the refinning process dictates how much petro or diesel can be made from a barrel of oil. I read that in europe, where they burn a lot of diesel...with the refinning process they use, they end up with ...I think this is right..

with more petrol than they really need, and they export petrol. 

 

I recognize only 5 advantages of diesel that I can see so far ..

 

ability to run biofuels - can even run on cooking oil from the grocery store in an emergency

further range on a given load of fuel

better fuel milage

less fire hazzard

and the other one escapes me right now ..maybe better low end torque .

 

and it used to be 'simplicty thus reliability' ..

but I don't think that's the case any more too much ..

modern eletronics are so reliable in petrol engines .

and the unforgving nature of diesel engines....well, in a Mercedes ....those are super well made and will run indefenitey until finally the timing chain wears out ..

but in VW diesels....really, I am reading about blown tdi turbo's and broken timing belts all to commonly.

 

then when you factor in rougher running, smoking sometimes, smelly sometimes ...and lower power in many versions .....

been there done that !

lol.

Scott

turbovans

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Les Harris

Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:15 PM

Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Repowering

 

 

Scott,

Thanks for the excellent input.

I will add a couple of items.  All Australian delivered Syncros came with 5.43, a factor to be considered when looking at engine changes.

Diesel in Australia is a lot more expensive than petrol and this is never going to change, so amortisation will take an unrealistically long time.

Les

_,_._,___


 

 

116

There is a AAz engine here in my shed, cable operated pump (rare as hens teeth in oz) 127 000 ks $ 4000.- (if you think it’s too much look into Bernd Jaeger’s website.) I also have a few extras like an intercooler to go into the cavity to the left in front of the left tail light, a complete oil cooler kit with hoses to go to front of car, heavy duty clutch, etc

Can be contacted 02 6584 9363 Hartmut

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary Cookson
Sent: Friday, 23 July 2010 2:25 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Repowering

 

 

Thanks Scott, I think this might be my easiest route, the current diesel is very frugal even when overfuelling like it has been.

 

Looks like some long nights in front of the computer ahead of me followed by some trips to the scrapper...

 

Gary

 

[2 0 / 2 1 Design]
28 Gwynne St
Richmond
Vic 3121
gary@twentytwentyone.net
www.twentytwentyone.net
Tel 3 9429 1868
Fax 3 9421 1110
Mob 0417 352782

 

On 23/07/2010, at 1:58 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:



 



a conversion to an AAZ is pretty straightforward.

most of it all bolts in where a 1.6 TD was.

you'll need to make the whole exhaust system pretty much ..

but that's not hard really.

and since AAZ's are 'car' ( jetta/golf ) engines you need to swap over many parts from the old engine to get the new engine into Syncro configuration ..

like flywheel, oil pan, clutch,. engine mounts,  etc. 

and need to make or find a proper air box for the air filter. ..

though come to think of it, the stock 1.6 TD syncro air box should be fine.

 

but sure, if you can find one, and want to stay diesel..

they're all right.  75 horsepower.   Considerably better than a 1.6 TD . 

 

for sure, a Subaru conversion is not a light undertaking ..

guy here just got a quote of $ 8,900 US ........not including the used Subaru engine . 

 

they are a lot of work to do. Many people do them for themselves at home.

that saves 3 or 4,000 dollars, even more, depending on how you do it.

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 8:42 PM

Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Repowering

 

 

Gary, Lots of things to consider, I think a big thing to consider is if you are paying someone to do the job the less modification involved, the better (for you bank balance). The subi will involve a bellhousing, mounting, hose and wiring adaption. Converting to petrol - easiest solution would be to wreck a cheap 2wd (as scott said your tank will be fine with a flush). Then I think the easiest solution is a 1.9tdi with a mechanical pump. As I understand it same bell housing, mounting, plumbing and wiring more or less. You may have to pay through the nose for the pump but compared to labour involved in the other options it is viable. Have you tried to get price and avilability of an AZZ? Greg E

--- On Fri, 23/7/10, Francesca Coles <fcoles6@gmail.com> wrote:


From: Francesca Coles <fcoles6@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Repowering
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Received: Friday, 23 July, 2010, 1:11 PM

 

Gary, surely the rest of the family wouldn't mind if you cannabalised your Forester, and ended up with a Subaru-powered camp mobile? But then again, maybe they might... 

 

Glad to see you're getting some really good advice, anyway, and I hope more rolls in. It's quite a project and there's a lot to weigh up.

 

Good luck,

 

Francesca.

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <ScottDaniel@ turbovans. com> wrote:

 

that sure is a low ring and pinion ratio.

with larger tires and an engine that doesn't mind a few rpm .....and you're not trying to go say 140 Kph very often ...should work out well enough I'd think.

 

Diesel was probably less than your regular petro there, once upon a time.

In this last big gas crisis we had about 3 years ago ..

diesel got even more expensive than premium petrol ..

and it's still about the same price as mid-grade petrol,

and it's not likely that it will get below the price of petrol from what I can gather, at least not for the foreseeble future.

  from what I have read the refinning process dictates how much petro or diesel can be made from a barrel of oil. I read that in europe, where they burn a lot of diesel...with the refinning process they use, they end up with ...I think this is right..

with more petrol than they really need, and they export petrol. 

 

I recognize only 5 advantages of diesel that I can see so far ..

 

ability to run biofuels - can even run on cooking oil from the grocery store in an emergency

further range on a given load of fuel

better fuel milage

less fire hazzard

and the other one escapes me right now ..maybe better low end torque .

 

and it used to be 'simplicty thus reliability' ..

but I don't think that's the case any more too much ..

modern eletronics are so reliable in petrol engines .

and the unforgving nature of diesel engines....well, in a Mercedes ....those are super well made and will run indefenitey until finally the timing chain wears out ..

but in VW diesels....really, I am reading about blown tdi turbo's and broken timing belts all to commonly.

 

then when you factor in rougher running, smoking sometimes, smelly sometimes ...and lower power in many versions .....

been there done that !

lol.

Scott

turbovans

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Les Harris

Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:15 PM

Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Repowering

 

 

Scott,

Thanks for the excellent input.

I will add a couple of items.  All Australian delivered Syncros came with 5.43, a factor to be considered when looking at engine changes.

Diesel in Australia is a lot more expensive than petrol and this is never going to change, so amortisation will take an unrealistically long time.

Les

_,_._,___


 

 

 

117
Thanks Ben, my airbox is the early cylinder type would that work?  and the turbo on my jx is almost new so sounds like that wouldn't go to waste!





On 23/07/2010, at 3:13 PM, BenT Syncro wrote:

 

That would be smart move IMHO. My Syncro 16 had a JX (1.6td) engine. I converted to the AAZ (1.9td). It might seem like a dramatic change in horsepower but the seat of my pants can sure tell. I've used it to pull out a 12" diameter tree stump in front yard.

Scott Foss touched on some issues but I need to add a few:

1) turbo is at lower position which can be unnerving when you traverse that first puddle of water. People have complained of damaging turbos.

2) airbox needs to be relocated. You would need to make some plumbing changes. If you are going to do that, you may as well use an better airbox such as the Donaldson. The early round Range Rover airbox works too.

3) the turbo in the AAZ is smaller than the one in the JX. It doesn't hurt lower RPM performance by much yet gets you more in the top end. Better for highway cruising.

4) you can economically equip your AAZ with the Blackstone intercooler from. SAAB 900. With the JX turbo plus the intercooler 110hp is not difficult.

Anyway, the conversion is a known quantity. You already have all the hardware necessary to do the conversion besides the exhaust downpipe. That an be connected to you old exhaust system.



Regards,


BenT

Sent from my mobile device

On Jul 22, 2010, at 9:34 PM, Gary Cookson <gary@twentytwentyon e.net> wrote:

Greg, i think this is my most viable solution. An AAZ seems to be a pretty similar engine to the 1.6td. I'm about to move my business into new premises and there is a storage area just big enough to get a dirty stinking old syncro into for a bit of a stripdown...

I'll wait to get the verdict on the state of compression and then consider the pump rebuild first. 



118
Gary,

You will need to relocate your airbox. It will work with some additional hoses. Remember that diesels love to breathe.

On a separate yet somewhat related subject, my 2wd with a Subaru 2.2 turbo engine with the auto trans gets about 15 miles per gallon (my apologies for not knowing how to express that in the local vernacular). The Syncro 16 with the AAZ gets 30mpg. In other words, double the distance travelled per unit of fuel. Of course, I rarely drive faster than 70mph in the Syncro and 85+mph in the Scoobie van.



BenT

Sent from my TDi

On Jul 22, 2010, at 10:35 PM, Gary Cookson <gary@twentytwentyone.net> wrote:

Thanks Ben, my airbox is the early cylinder type would that work?  and the turbo on my jx is almost new so sounds like that wouldn't go to waste!





On 23/07/2010, at 3:13 PM, BenT Syncro wrote:

 

That would be smart move IMHO. My Syncro 16 had a JX (1.6td) engine. I converted to the AAZ (1.9td). It might seem like a dramatic change in horsepower but the seat of my pants can sure tell. I've used it to pull out a 12" diameter tree stump in front yard.

Scott Foss touched on some issues but I need to add a few:

1) turbo is at lower position which can be unnerving when you traverse that first puddle of water. People have complained of damaging turbos.

2) airbox needs to be relocated. You would need to make some plumbing changes. If you are going to do that, you may as well use an better airbox such as the Donaldson. The early round Range Rover airbox works too.

3) the turbo in the AAZ is smaller than the one in the JX. It doesn't hurt lower RPM performance by much yet gets you more in the top end. Better for highway cruising.

4) you can economically equip your AAZ with the Blackstone intercooler from. SAAB 900. With the JX turbo plus the intercooler 110hp is not difficult.

Anyway, the conversion is a known quantity. You already have all the hardware necessary to do the conversion besides the exhaust downpipe. That an be connected to you old exhaust system.



Regards,


BenT

Sent from my mobile device

On Jul 22, 2010, at 9:34 PM, Gary Cookson <gary@twentytwentyone.net> wrote:

Greg, i think this is my most viable solution. An AAZ seems to be a pretty similar engine to the 1.6td. I'm about to move my business into new premises and there is a storage area just big enough to get a dirty stinking old syncro into for a bit of a stripdown...

I'll wait to get the verdict on the state of compression and then consider the pump rebuild first. 



119
re
"turbo is at lower position which can be unnerving when you traverse that first puddle of water. People have complained of damaging turbos."
 
this is a little strange to read.
the turbo on an AAZ engine is mounted up fairly high, alongside the cylinder head...
and the stock 1.6 TD factory syncro  uses a 'quantum' style exhaust manifold with the turbo down at the end of the exh manifold.................. and if anything is 'lower'.   it would be the stock arrangement, and the AAZ will be better in terms of turbo location, and also egt's...it's an altogether better  TD exhaust manifold set up than the stock 1.6 TD syncro 'quantum' type exhaust manifold.   I'm really surprised they even built it that way in the first place.
 
to reduce confusion for the original poster thinking about repowering..
there's a post saying an AAZ with cable operated injection pump is very rare in Oz ..
As far as I know ..
ALL pre-chamber non-tdi AAZ 1.9 TD VW engines have fully mechanical injection pumps operated by a throttle cable in the conventional way.
it's TDI's that are throttle-by-wire,   and a TDI i is much different animal than a regular old fashioned  pre-chamber type 1.9 TD AAZ.
 
pretty expensive to get used too it appears  ! 
 
and the JX injection pump ..
might have mentioned it ..
I put one of those on a guy's 1.9 TD  engine ( ABL engine code ) and that injection pump and engine ran better than ANY 1.9 TD vanagon I have ever driven ..
really strong power and throttle response at 1,800 or so rpm ..
I'd run a JX pump any time, it was that good.   Like immediate throttle response, petrol like.
 
also important to test injectors and run injectors with good spray patterns.   Poor spray pattern can damage the head gasket and even the  head.   
 
scott
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Repowering

 

Thanks Ben, my airbox is the early cylinder type would that work?  and the turbo on my jx is almost new so sounds like that wouldn't go to waste!






On 23/07/2010, at 3:13 PM, BenT Syncro wrote:

 

That would be smart move IMHO. My Syncro 16 had a JX (1.6td) engine. I converted to the AAZ (1.9td). It might seem like a dramatic change in horsepower but the seat of my pants can sure tell. I've used it to pull out a 12" diameter tree stump in front yard.

Scott Foss touched on some issues but I need to add a few:

1) turbo is at lower position which can be unnerving when you traverse that first puddle of water. People have complained of damaging turbos.

2) airbox needs to be relocated. You would need to make some plumbing changes. If you are going to do that, you may as well use an better airbox such as the Donaldson. The early round Range Rover airbox works too.

3) the turbo in the AAZ is smaller than the one in the JX. It doesn't hurt lower RPM performance by much yet gets you more in the top end. Better for highway cruising.

4) you can economically equip your AAZ with the Blackstone intercooler from. SAAB 900. With the JX turbo plus the intercooler 110hp is not difficult.

Anyway, the conversion is a known quantity. You already have all the hardware necessary to do the conversion besides the exhaust downpipe. That an be connected to you old exhaust system.



Regards,


BenT

Sent from my mobile device

On Jul 22, 2010, at 9:34 PM, Gary Cookson <gary@twentytwentyon e.net> wrote:

Greg, i think this is my most viable solution. An AAZ seems to be a pretty similar engine to the 1.6td. I'm about to move my business into new premises and there is a storage area just big enough to get a dirty stinking old syncro into for a bit of a stripdown...

I'll wait to get the verdict on the state of compression and then consider the pump rebuild first. 



120
Hi Hart, I thought yours was a TDi with a fancy converted to manual pump from Bernd Jaeger?


[2 0 / 2 1 Design]
28 Gwynne St
Richmond
Vic 3121
gary@twentytwentyone.net
www.twentytwentyone.net
Tel 3 9429 1868
Fax 3 9421 1110
Mob 0417 352782

On 23/07/2010, at 3:15 PM, Hartmut Kiehn wrote:

 

Although about every soul in the group knows that there is an AAZ  127 000

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Gary Cookson
Sent: Friday, 23 July 2010 2:34 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Repowering

 

 

Greg, i think this is my most viable solution. An AAZ seems to be a pretty similar engine to the 1.6td. I'm about to move my business into new premises and there is a storage area just big enough to get a dirty stinking old syncro into for a bit of a stripdown...

 

I'll wait to get the verdict on the state of compression and then consider the pump rebuild first. 

 

[2 0 / 2 1 Design]
28 Gwynne St
Richmond
Vic 3121
gary@twentytwentyon e.net
www.twentytwentyone .net
Tel 3 9429 1868
Fax 3 9421 1110
Mob 0417 352782

 

On 23/07/2010, at 1:42 PM, greg esposito wrote:



 

Gary, Lots of things to consider, I think a big thing to consider is if you are paying someone to do the job the less modification involved, the better (for you bank balance). The subi will involve a bellhousing, mounting, hose and wiring adaption. Converting to petrol - easiest solution would be to wreck a cheap 2wd (as scott said your tank will be fine with a flush). Then I think the easiest solution is a 1.9tdi with a mechanical pump. As I understand it same bell housing, mounting, plumbing and wiring more or less. You may have to pay through the nose for the pump but compared to labour involved in the other options it is viable. Have you tried to get price and avilability of an AZZ? Greg E

--- On Fri, 23/7/10, Francesca Coles <fcoles6@gmail. com> wrote:


From: Francesca Coles <fcoles6@gmail. com>
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Repowering
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Received: Friday, 23 July, 2010, 1:11 PM

 

Gary, surely the rest of the family wouldn't mind if you cannabalised your Forester, and ended up with a Subaru-powered camp mobile? But then again, maybe they might... 

 

Glad to see you're getting some really good advice, anyway, and I hope more rolls in. It's quite a project and there's a lot to weigh up.

 

Good luck,

 

Francesca.

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <ScottDaniel@ turbovans. com> wrote:

 

that sure is a low ring and pinion ratio.

with larger tires and an engine that doesn't mind a few rpm .....and you're not trying to go say 140 Kph very often ...should work out well enough I'd think.

 

Diesel was probably less than your regular petro there, once upon a time.

In this last big gas crisis we had about 3 years ago ..

diesel got even more expensive than premium petrol ..

and it's still about the same price as mid-grade petrol,

and it's not likely that it will get below the price of petrol from what I can gather, at least not for the foreseeble future.

  from what I have read the refinning process dictates how much petro or diesel can be made from a barrel of oil. I read that in europe, where they burn a lot of diesel...with the refinning process they use, they end up with ...I think this is right..

with more petrol than they really need, and they export petrol. 

 

I recognize only 5 advantages of diesel that I can see so far ..

 

ability to run biofuels - can even run on cooking oil from the grocery store in an emergency

further range on a given load of fuel

better fuel milage

less fire hazzard

and the other one escapes me right now ..maybe better low end torque .

 

and it used to be 'simplicty thus reliability' ..

but I don't think that's the case any more too much ..

modern eletronics are so reliable in petrol engines .

and the unforgving nature of diesel engines....well, in a Mercedes ....those are super well made and will run indefenitey until finally the timing chain wears out ..

but in VW diesels....really, I am reading about blown tdi turbo's and broken timing belts all to commonly.

 

then when you factor in rougher running, smoking sometimes, smelly sometimes ...and lower power in many versions .....

been there done that !

lol.

Scott

turbovans

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Les Harris

Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:15 PM

Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Repowering

 

 

Scott,

Thanks for the excellent input.

I will add a couple of items.  All Australian delivered Syncros came with 5.43, a factor to be considered when looking at engine changes.

Diesel in Australia is a lot more expensive than petrol and this is never going to change, so amortisation will take an unrealistically long time.

Les

_,_._,___