First trip off road :)

Hi,

I finally got the change to take my syncro off road for the first time on the weekend up at Bright (VIC).  I have to say its performance was outstanding. I was amazed at its off road capability and the way it handled its self.  It went up slopes I thought would be far to step and the engine practically idled up them.  Got to love G-gear.  However I did start to run out of brakes on the way down. But a few stops to take in the scenery and the pedal came back to life.  Some of the guys I was with said it is always a good idea to carry chains with you in case you need a bit of extra grip.  If you up grade to 15” wheels can you still fit chains or do you start getting a wheel clearance issue? Also what do people do to get better braking? The brakes are not in bad shape but I don’t know what pads and linings area being used.

 

Cheers,



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Hiya,

On 05.05.2008, at 08:40, Michael Roberts wrote:

> you need a bit of extra grip. If you up grade to 15” wheels can you
> still fit chains or do you start getting a wheel clearance issue?

Well... 15" says nothing :) What tire size are you speaking of?
195/65R15 (about the size of original wheel) will allow chains,
215/80R15 won't! But chains are really only for very very tough
offroading, I highly doubt that you'll ever need them - unless you're
one of the very very few 'real' offroaders :) You'll need 4 of them in
that case, btw...

> Also what do people do to get better braking? The brakes are not in
> bad shape but I don’t know what pads and linings area being used.

First thing is probably: Size down! Away with all the extra camping
stuff, the bus doesn't need to weigh 3to. Once you've done that and
motor-braking doesn't help, you have many options, none of which are
cheap. I'll try to summarize quickly :)

1.) SA brake kit in front (Calipers from SA, discs by Audi!! [original
SA discs need to be machined to fit on a syncro]) - cost: ~800AUD
2.) Big Audi brakes in front (and rear) with specially machined
adapters, everything else stock Audi parts - cost: ~1500AUD per axle
3.) Porsche brakes (front only), machined adapter, Porsche calipers -
cost: ~ 2500AUD

All these assuming _new_ parts. If you need more info on options 1 and
2, I can probably get you some. Try also searching the net, it has
been done more than one time :)

Ciao,

Martin

P.S.: All these brake conversion require at least 15" rims, some of
them even 16"!

>
> Cheers,
>
> Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to
> Yahoo! Answers.



--
Martin Henning, DM5OY
martin@easy2design.de
http://log.tigerbus.de
Michael,
 
It's horses for courses.
 
In the days before mobile phones, the dictum was 'don't go anywhere you can't get yourself out of''.  That is still a good commonsense dictum.  There are not a few people who go bush-bashing and deliberately put themselves into ridiculous situations.  They deserve everything that they bring down on their own heads, including massively expensive professional recovery!!
 
Beyond that, there are variables to take into account. 
 
The most important, in this context, is the tyres you are running.  If you are running a good off-road tyre, you can go most places.  By most places, I mean disused fire trails with washaways and similar, particularly if you have a functioning rear diff lock.
 
Another dictum is to descend any incline in the gear that you would need to get up the same incline.  If you went up in Granny Gear, go down in the same gear.  The engine is a very effective brake and this saves your wheel brakes  This gives you a very controlled descent.
 
If you stay within sensible terrain limits, you won't need chains unless you are getting into snow.
 
Upgrading to 15" wheels is a side issue, except for the fact that good 14" all terrain tyres are being dropped by manufacturers - the BFG is a good example.
 
Les
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:40 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] First trip off road :)

Hi,

I finally got the change to take my syncro off road for the first time on the weekend up at Bright (VIC).  I have to say its performance was outstanding. I was amazed at its off road capability and the way it handled its self.  It went up slopes I thought would be far to step and the engine practically idled up them.  Got to love G-gear.  However I did start to run out of brakes on the way down. But a few stops to take in the scenery and the pedal came back to life.  Some of the guys I was with said it is always a good idea to carry chains with you in case you need a bit of extra grip.  If you up grade to 15” wheels can you still fit chains or do you start getting a wheel clearance issue? Also what do people do to get better braking? The brakes are not in bad shape but I don’t know what pads and linings area being used.

 

Cheers,



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Gday Michael and ALL,

I couldn't agree more about the offroad downhill braking issue for
heavily laden syncros.

I'm sure the standard brakes and pads are fine for standard issue
syncros with middling payloads, whereas I know from experience, 2.5 tons
plus in offroad, downhill slopes and in pretty hot summer conditions
makes for very interesting driving, to say the least. What I found was
that in G gear, the syncro still wanted to build momentum, hence I
needed to also judiciously ride the brakes as well to contain it. You
know you have a problem .... you can smell it and you can fry eggs n
bacon easily on all four steel rims.

I recall the 1992 owner of my syncro telling me of his hair raising
experiences when he joined a 4WD tag-along tour with a mixed bag of
other brand 4WD vehicles. The other vehicles seemed to be able to crawl
down slopes better than he could, hence the frightening occasions when
he was at risk of running into the backs of vehicles in front. I guess
in hindsight, proceeding cautiously further apart makes a lot of sense.

Clearly, lightening the load has many benefits, fuel usage, braking,
wear and tear etc. Easier said than done.

I thought a cheaper solution than Martins worth at least a try was to
install the 4WD version brake pads. One example I was recommended to try
was the Bendix DB1139/4WD model pad. Apparently, amongst other
characteristics, they handle heat much better. Too late though, upon
enquiry, I was told Bendix had ceased production of that particular
model. Probably not enough demand. Now there may be something similar
available from a different manufacturer or there may be a different
model of pad that has better characteristics to suit heavy syncros,
something at least better than the stock standard issue pads. This needs
further investigation.

So I remain unsure also as to which way to jump on this issue, I don't
think I can justify the huge dollars Martin has been quoting for the
alternate specialised solutions.

Anyone else gone down this road and can suggest a compromise solution,
aside from ... "yeah, stay on the bitumen!", your contributions would be
appreciated. TIA.

Cheers.

Ken


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Michael Roberts
<type500@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I finally got the change to take my syncro off road for the first time
on the weekend up at Bright (VIC). I have to say its performance was
outstanding. I was amazed at its off road capability and the way it
handled its self. It went up slopes I thought would be far to step and
the engine practically idled up them. Got to love G-gear. However I
did start to run out of brakes on the way down. But a few stops to take
in the scenery and the pedal came back to life. Some of the guys I was
with said it is always a good idea to carry chains with you in case you
need a bit of extra grip. If you up grade to 15" wheels can you
still fit chains or do you start getting a wheel clearance issue? Also
what do people do to get better braking? The brakes are not in bad shape
but I don't know what pads and linings area being used.
> Cheers,
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
>
> http://www.flickr.com/gift/
>
Dear Michael,
On the basis of going for the cheap solution first, if your pedal went right down but recovered later then I would be changing my brake fluid as it does take up water over time . It was pointed out to me that as disc rotors and rear drums wear down, they have less "meat" to dissipate heat. Drums also get out of round. If you want to stay with the standard set up I paid the following for German parts last week but they could possibly be obtained cheaper.2 Rotors $200, 4 Disc pads $70, 2 Drums $210, 2 wheel cylinders $90, 4 brake shoes $90.
I agree about the pleasures of the "G" gear. I'd hardly used it before I went away on the group's Shallow Crossing adventure when I seemed to spend the whole day in it. Reverse is the same low ratio.
I'm taking chains with me up to Cape York as I have had good experience with them on 2wd vehicles and like Les says don't want to be a burden to others. A good set of mud tyres would probably be just as good if you can put up with the noise and wear on bitumen where I unfortunately spend 90% of my time. I'll report back whether I needed them and how they went on my 205x16" tyres.
Attached below a picture of the conditions I fear.(Derek Drew from the USA Syncro group)
Cheers
Roger
 
 
 

Michael Roberts <type500@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi,
I finally got the change to take my syncro off road for the first time on the weekend up at Bright (VIC).  I have to say its performance was outstanding. I was amazed at its off road capability and the way it handled its self.  It went up slopes I thought would be far to step and the engine practically idled up them.  Got to love G-gear.  However I did start to run out of brakes on the way down. But a few stops to take in the scenery and the pedal came back to life.  Some of the guys I was with said it is always a good idea to carry chains with you in case you need a bit of extra grip.  If you up grade to 15” wheels can you still fit chains or do you start getting a wheel clearance issue? Also what do people do to get better braking? The brakes are not in bad shape but I don’t know what pads and linings area being used.
 
Cheers,


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Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.

 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] First trip off road :)

Hiya,

On 05.05.2008, at 08:40, Michael Roberts wrote:

> you need a bit of extra grip.  If you up grade to 15” wheels can you 
> still fit chains or do you start getting a wheel clearance issue?

Well... 15" says nothing :) What tire size are you speaking of? 
195/65R15 (about the size of original wheel) will allow chains, 
215/80R15 won't! But chains are really only for very very tough 
offroading, I highly doubt that you'll ever need them - unless you're 
one of the very very few 'real' offroaders :) You'll need 4 of them in 
that case, btw...

> Also what do people do to get better braking? The brakes are not in 
> bad shape but I don’t know what pads and linings area being used.

First thing is probably: Size down! Away with all the extra camping 
stuff, the bus doesn't need to weigh 3to. Once you've done that and 
motor-braking doesn't help, you have many options, none of which are 
cheap. I'll try to summarize quickly :)

1.) SA brake kit in front (Calipers from SA, discs by Audi!! [original 
SA discs need to be machined to fit on a syncro]) - cost: ~800AUD
2.) Big Audi brakes in front (and rear) with specially machined 
adapters, everything else stock Audi parts - cost: ~1500AUD per axle
3.) Porsche brakes (front only), machined adapter, Porsche calipers - 
cost: ~ 2500AUD

All these assuming _new_ parts. If you need more info on options 1 and 
2, I can probably get you some. Try also searching the net, it has 
been done more than one time :)

Ciao,

Martin

P.S.: All these brake conversion require at least 15" rims, some of 
them even 16"!

>
> Cheers,
>
> Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to 
> Yahoo! Answers.



--
Martin Henning, DM5OY
martin@easy2design.de
http://log.tigerbus.de



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Sorry, all, I just sent a blank reply!!
 
Martin has summarized this very well.  I will just add one thing.  The original brakes are adequate for all use.  As Martin says 'slow down'.  As I say, go down in the gear you would need to get up.  And this presumes that your brakes are in good condition.  It sounds like yours need to be checked and could need new linings and a grind. 
 
Les
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] First trip off road :)

Hiya,

On 05.05.2008, at 08:40, Michael Roberts wrote:

> you need a bit of extra grip.  If you up grade to 15” wheels can you 
> still fit chains or do you start getting a wheel clearance issue?

Well... 15" says nothing :) What tire size are you speaking of? 
195/65R15 (about the size of original wheel) will allow chains, 
215/80R15 won't! But chains are really only for very very tough 
offroading, I highly doubt that you'll ever need them - unless you're 
one of the very very few 'real' offroaders :) You'll need 4 of them in 
that case, btw...

> Also what do people do to get better braking? The brakes are not in 
> bad shape but I don’t know what pads and linings area being used.

First thing is probably: Size down! Away with all the extra camping 
stuff, the bus doesn't need to weigh 3to. Once you've done that and 
motor-braking doesn't help, you have many options, none of which are 
cheap. I'll try to summarize quickly :)

1.) SA brake kit in front (Calipers from SA, discs by Audi!! [original 
SA discs need to be machined to fit on a syncro]) - cost: ~800AUD
2.) Big Audi brakes in front (and rear) with specially machined 
adapters, everything else stock Audi parts - cost: ~1500AUD per axle
3.) Porsche brakes (front only), machined adapter, Porsche calipers - 
cost: ~ 2500AUD

All these assuming _new_ parts. If you need more info on options 1 and 
2, I can probably get you some. Try also searching the net, it has 
been done more than one time :)

Ciao,

Martin

P.S.: All these brake conversion require at least 15" rims, some of 
them even 16"!

>
> Cheers,
>
> Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to 
> Yahoo! Answers.



--
Martin Henning, DM5OY
martin@easy2design.de
http://log.tigerbus.de



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Thanks for all the ideas,

I will start by going over the current brake set up and make sure it’s up to scratch.  I will also try to hunt down some more heat resistant pads.  As for speed and load, the syncro was totally empty and I was in G gear on the way down.  The tyres I am currently running are Toyo Open Country 27x8.5 R14 M+S. They’re still in good condition but a bit noise on made roads. The problem with the brakes may have been that I did not go up the way we came down.  I doubt very much if I could have ever made it back up the slope we came down.  Perhaps I was bit too ambitious first day out, at least I brought it home in one piece.

 

Cheers,

 

Mchael



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Gday Michael,

It's a wise person who first reconnoitres ahead on foot a section of
iffy track before committing to it.

Can make the difference between driving or walking home.

Cheers

Ken


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Michael Roberts
<type500@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the ideas,
> I will start by going over the current brake set up and make sure
it¢s up to scratch. I will also try to hunt down some more heat
resistant pads. As for speed and load, the syncro was totally empty and
I was in G gear on the way down. The tyres I am currently running are
Toyo Open Country 27x8.5 R14 M+S. They¢re still in good condition but
a bit noise on made roads. The problem with the brakes may have been
that I did not go up the way we came down. I doubt very much if I could
have ever made it back up the slope we came down. Perhaps I was bit too
ambitious first day out, at least I brought it home in one piece.
> Cheers,
> Mchael
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
>
> http://www.flickr.com/gift/
>

Ken,

Wise words indeed, something I will be doing in future.

 

Cheers,

 

Michael



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Hi Michael,
 
I found some brake information that may interest you. In the latest VW Australia magazine there is an article about a T3 engine conversion using a Subaru SVX 3.3 engine which is quite informative. Due to the huge increase in power he had to increase its stopping ability where he fitted an American ventilated rear disc brake kit and Subaru SVX 301mm ventilated discs and piston calipers on the front. No mention tho in the article where he sourced the parts from.
However in the same magazine there is an ad for a place called Volks Conversions in QLD which has a rear disc brake kit to fit the syncro. Has anyone in the group fitted these with success before? You can also check them on the web at www.volksconversions.com.au
 
Cheers, Andy Sinclair
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:40 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] First trip off road :)

Hi,

I finally got the change to take my syncro off road for the first time on the weekend up at Bright (VIC).  I have to say its performance was outstanding. I was amazed at its off road capability and the way it handled its self.  It went up slopes I thought would be far to step and the engine practically idled up them.  Got to love G-gear.  However I did start to run out of brakes on the way down. But a few stops to take in the scenery and the pedal came back to life.  Some of the guys I was with said it is always a good idea to carry chains with you in case you need a bit of extra grip.  If you up grade to 15” wheels can you still fit chains or do you start getting a wheel clearance issue? Also what do people do to get better braking? The brakes are not in bad shape but I don’t know what pads and linings area being used.

 

Cheers,



Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers.


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I had a look at the website and it doesn't mention if this disc brake fits 14" wheels.  (Most rear disc conversions are for 15")   If it does, and depending on price, it could be a useful conversion, even just for water exclusion.
 
Les
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] First trip off road :)

Hi Michael,
 
I found some brake information that may interest you. In the latest VW Australia magazine there is an article about a T3 engine conversion using a Subaru SVX 3.3 engine which is quite informative. Due to the huge increase in power he had to increase its stopping ability where he fitted an American ventilated rear disc brake kit and Subaru SVX 301mm ventilated discs and piston calipers on the front. No mention tho in the article where he sourced the parts from.
However in the same magazine there is an ad for a place called Volks Conversions in QLD which has a rear disc brake kit to fit the syncro. Has anyone in the group fitted these with success before? You can also check them on the web at www.volksconversion s.com.au
 
Cheers, Andy Sinclair
 
.