Hi group, just drained my gear oil after about 100k on the redline mt90. To my surprise it looked pretty dirty, never seen gear oil look like that. Gearbox works well shifts smoothly and is quiet, and drain plug had the usual bit of fine metal shavings on it. Should I persist using the Mt 90 or should I change to another oil given that the redline has been getting a bad wrap on the samba of late. Any input/advice would be welcome. Thanks, Eddie.
| Happy with the Catrol Syntrans GL4 product might compare to the Penrite equivalent next time its Aus made and cheaper.. Bruce Sent from Yahoo7 Mail on Android
|
This might not have gone the first time round!!
From:
Les Harris [mailto:leslieharris@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: 08 June 2015 12:30
To:
'Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia]
Gear oil
This comes up from time to time and the predominant opinion from people who rebuild gearboxes for a living is that the mineral oils work better in the Syncro gearbox. They attribute this to the superior ability of the mineral oils to maintain oil film integrity on the bearing surfaces.
Les
From:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 08 June 2015 11:55
To:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia]
Gear oil
Hi group, just drained my gear oil after about 100k on the redline mt90. To my surprise it looked pretty dirty, never seen gear oil look like that. Gearbox works well shifts smoothly and is quiet, and drain plug had the usual bit of fine metal shavings on it. Should I persist using the Mt 90 or should I change to another oil given that the redline has been getting a bad wrap on the samba of late. Any input/advice would be welcome. Thanks, Eddie.
Hi Eddie, I wouldn't blame the oil for the dark colour. Either the detergents are doing their job or the oil got too hot (which is the big problem with syncro boxes). That said I would not bother importing redline when we have the right stuff made locally by a company that is Aussie owned.
Greg E
From: "bergodaz@ozemail.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia]" <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 8 June 2015, 11:55
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Gear oil
Hi group, just drained my gear oil after about 100k on the redline mt90. To my surprise it looked pretty dirty, never seen gear oil look like that. Gearbox works well shifts smoothly and is quiet, and drain plug had the usual bit of fine metal shavings on it. Should I persist using the Mt 90 or should I change to another oil given that the redline has been getting a bad wrap on the samba of late. Any input/advice would be welcome. Thanks, Eddie.
That sounds like two votes for the Penrite synthetic. I hear what you're saying Les but I've found that the synthetic makes for easier shifting. Guess time will tell if my oil selection was correct.
What was meant in the post was possibly Penrite Mineral and not synthetic. Please let me know if I'm wrong here.
Recently I drained my Syntrax synthetic and changed it for Fuchs Mineral. Fuchs is very much like Penrite, a family company and it is extensively used in NZ. I used it because they do list it for Syncro on their website.
I got it of the shelf at Bursons here in country town Port Mac.
Yes, correct, shifting is more intense after cold night, but that is an indication that there is a film of oil still present.
Draining of Syntrax was done when the g/box was out, thus avoiding residual oil in the box.
Hart
Sent from my iPad
Sent from my iPad
On 8 Jun 2015, at 8:46 pm, bergodaz@ozemail.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
That sounds like two votes for the Penrite synthetic. I hear what you're saying Les but I've found that the synthetic makes for easier shifting. Guess time will tell if my oil selection was correct.
After my gearbox rebuild I put in Castrol Syntrax on the recommendation of Ron in Kempsey who did the rebuild. He uses this in all his fancy boxes that he works on. When it kept popping out of 4th gear the wise heads on our site recommended I go back to the factory spec oil. So after the second job on the box with a new 4th gear and a few other minor mods by Ron I went for the Fuchs mineral oil that Hart talked about in his post. He then did the same. I relied on the advice that it is “stickier” than synthetic. The only issue is that it can be a little stiff first up in the morning but this is hardly an issue. So in summary the mineral oil is working just fine for me. But as always time will tell. No doubt when Hart and I are in Germany we can do some more research on the issue with the Euro experts and report back.
Peter from Port
I've been using swepco 201 following reading samba discussions. Good so far. Mineral and again slightly hard to shift cold until you've driven 500m, then excellent. Found the distributor for nsw, drove by his house, picnic point from memory.
Eddie,
This is one of those situations where we can’t have it both ways. Synthetic oil has a lower cold viscosity than mineral oil and gives easy shifting from stone cold. Mineral oil has a much higher viscosity when cold and needs slower shifting until it warms up.
Separately, synthetic oil has a much lower film integrity, hot and cold, than mineral oil. No oil = very high wear rate. High film integrity oil = very low wear rate. Intermediate film integrity = intermediate wear rate.
The choice comes down to easier gear shifting when cold and a higher wear rate or slow shifting when cold and lower wear rate.
The Syncro box operates at high loads (the initial design could have been better) and needs the best film integrity oil available.
Les
From:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 08 June 2015 20:46
To:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia]
Gear oil
That sounds like two votes for the Penrite synthetic. I hear what you're saying Les but I've found that the synthetic makes for easier shifting. Guess time will tell if my oil selection was correct.
And everyone has their preferences also!
The only experience I have with both synthetic and mineral (used to use shell) is in various beetles, type 3's and kombi's, have never found a big different in driving (doesn't get that cold in Brisbane!) and have never noticed any difference in colour of the oil, or amount of bits stuck to the magnet when changing.
Of the vehicles I did the most driving in, the beetle ran mineral, and at change time was always spotless. I ran synthetic in the kombi (T2) which did a lot of heavily loaded work and a lot of towing, again oil always came out spotless.
Not a direct comparison to the Syncro, but I can't say I have found any major benefits in performance of one over the other.
My mechanic puts Fuch's mineral in the Syncro, but the GB was recently rebuilt when I got it and I have only done ~20k km in it so far!!
On thing I must say is I have been surprised how quick the front diff comes up to temperature (driving on the road, tail shaft out). I would have thought took a long time to heat up just turning over. No idea if this would be different with synthetic.
I really look forward to any news back from the gathering in Europe!
Hi Richard
News from overseas will start to flow mid August, Peter of Port will look after that , think he will create a blog, Personally I will keep a manual log , more in line with life advancements....
Glad to read that your mechanic is using Fuchs (germ. for fox) , my engine did +- 320 T kms
On 15/40 Fuchs before I opened it for inspection.
Surprised too about the heat generator called front diff in my Syncro. In summer I put an extra mat in there to save the feet from getting burnt (haha). Why is the thing getting that warm ? Synthetic does not make a difference for me as mine still is on synthetic. At the time I stopped the oil to see it would make a difference.
Hart
Sent from my iPad
Sent from my iPad
On 10 Jun 2015, at 5:05 pm, cathrich1@yahoo.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
And everyone has their preferences also!
The only experience I have with both synthetic and mineral (used to use shell) is in various beetles, type 3's and kombi's, have never found a big different in driving (doesn't get that cold in Brisbane!) and have never noticed any difference in colour of the oil, or amount of bits stuck to the magnet when changing.
Of the vehicles I did the most driving in, the beetle ran mineral, and at change time was always spotless. I ran synthetic in the kombi (T2) which did a lot of heavily loaded work and a lot of towing, again oil always came out spotless.
Not a direct comparison to the Syncro, but I can't say I have found any major benefits in performance of one over the other.
My mechanic puts Fuch's mineral in the Syncro, but the GB was recently rebuilt when I got it and I have only done ~20k km in it so far!!
On thing I must say is I have been surprised how quick the front diff comes up to temperature (driving on the road, tail shaft out). I would have thought took a long time to heat up just turning over. No idea if this would be different with synthetic.
The tic I really look forward to any news back from the gathering in Europe!
Hartmut,
This might be down to the coolant pipes to the radiator. In Germany , there was a factory option that was called a foot well insulation kit to overcome this problem.
Les
From:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 10 June 2015 18:43
To:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia]
Gear oil
Surprised too about the heat generator called front diff in my Syncro. In summer I put an extra mat in there to save the feet from getting burnt (haha). Why is the thing getting that warm ? Synthetic does not make a difference for me as mine still is on synthetic. At the time I stopped the oil to see it would make a difference.
Hart
The Bentley details a mod also to get better air past the foot well area behind the radiator.
Richard
Really looking forward to the reports Hart! I also liked your TV clip :)
I think one of the reasons Fuchs has done well here recently is very keen pricing, we used it at work for a while also (hydraulic fluids)
I guess the radiator could also add to the heat on the front diff. I remember the first few longer trips I did in the Syncro and found the front diff just as hot as the gear box. Started driving on the road with the tail shaft out and it made no difference to heat, it still is as hot as the GB after a highway run (this is just by touch, nothing scientific)
Richard
1 Like
Hi all, dragging out an old thread. When I last did the oil on the gear box, I ended up using Swepco 210.
Just wondering if there’s any new updates on oil recommendations? I am wondering if it’s a good time to look at synthetic. The only ones I see readily available (synthetic is GL-5 not GL4) are Nulon, Penrite and Castrol.
On Rudi’s advice I went with the Redline Light weight shockproof gear oil.
I changed it after 25000kms and it looked fantastic - went a purple colour and a bit sticky but there was only a tiny amount of shavings on the sump plug and in the oil drained.
Went for the same - gearbox still working well and quiet/ smooth.
Love it!
Thanks Scott. Great to know.
Interesting choice as the redline web page recommends MT-90 75W90 GL-4 and 75W90 GL-5 for the front diff
I have 75W90 GL-5 in the front diff still.
This oil came recommended from a tried and tested professional syncro gearbox tech so I am happy to take his advice.
Thanks Scott, I’ll look into some local suppliers and see whats out there