Ideal Operating Temperature

1
Now you have got me thinking. Have I done the right thing by adding
an oil cooler?

Maybe it is time for a little research.
What is the optimum oil temperature?
What is the optimum coolant temperatute?

The Syncro already has an oil cooler inbuilt. They knew then that oil
temperature (too high) was an issue, otherwise they would not have
fitted the cooler. Make sense?

If you look at the little table in the manual (page 7 appendices,
Vehicle Care) there seems to be a maximum climate operating
temperature of 40 degrees C.

Also the manual defines the cutin and cutout temperature of the
thermo fan.
Stage 1: Cut in 89-94. Cut out 81. (degrees C)
Stage 2: Cut in 95-100. Cut out 87.

I have always thought that when stage 2 cuts in, the engine is too
HOT and should be allowed to cool. If you keep going after stage 2
then you risk overheating to destruction.

So what should I (we) do?
2
Peter,
 
Let's step back one pace. 
 
As designed, the Syncro cooling system is more than adequate for all operating conditions. 
 
Drive up the Hume on a summer's day of 40 degrees ambient and you will have 50 plus at knee height above the bitumen.  Running at a steady 100, the cooling system deals with that easily. 
 
If you are experiencing overheating, as determined by coolant and oil temperature measurements, there is a fault in the system somewhere.
 
I am up to my eyeballs in a consulting job today that has to be finished by tomorrow morning, so I can't knock off to gather up representative temperatures but will do so as soon as I have finished.
 
See notes added below.
 
Les
 

Now you have got me thinking. Have I done the right thing by adding an oil cooler?

Not a problem so long as it has a thermo valve.

Maybe it is time for a little research. What is the optimum oil temperature? What is the optimum coolant temperature?

I will gather up the figures as soon as I can

The Syncro already has an oil cooler inbuilt. They knew then that oil temperature (too high) was an issue, otherwise they would not have fitted the cooler. Make sense?

No, this does not indicate a problem.  As with the aircooled engines, it is making optimum use of the oil capacity.  Porsche does the same.

If you look at the little table in the manual (page 7 appendices, Vehicle Care) there seems to be a maximum climate operating temperature of 40 degrees C.

Also the manual defines the cutin and cutout temperature of the thermo fan.
Stage 1: Cut in 89-94. Cut out 81. (degrees C)
Stage 2: Cut in 95-100. Cut out 87.

I have always thought that when stage 2 cuts in, the engine is too HOT and should be allowed to cool. If you keep going after stage 2 then you risk overheating to destruction.

No.  Stage 2 is also used when the airconditioner compressor cuts in.  It simply achieves the required cooling in a shorter time.

So what should I (we) do?

 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 9:20 AM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Ideal Operating Temperature



 

3
> Now you have got me thinking. Have I done the right thing by adding
> an oil cooler?

I had an external oil cooler on my Beetle rally car and never had a problem.

The only problems that I can see are;

Oil not reaching a proper temperature on short trips. I used to have a cover on my Beetle oil cooler which I would stop and remove after 10-15 kms.

Places to leak. Joints, cooler damage etc.




>
> Maybe it is time for a little research.
> What is the optimum oil temperature?

Probably around 70-100





> What is the optimum coolant temperatute?

Mine runs just on the left hand edge of the LED. When it gets really hot it goes just past the right hand edge of the LED.




>
> The Syncro already has an oil cooler inbuilt. They knew then that oil
> temperature (too high) was an issue, otherwise they would not have
> fitted the cooler. Make sense?

It's also and oil heater.





>
> If you look at the little table in the manual (page 7 appendices,
> Vehicle Care) there seems to be a maximum climate operating
> temperature of 40 degrees C.

Notice the graph has a pointy bit to indicate more than.
The graph was made in Germany. "Vas ist more than 40????"




>
> Also the manual defines the cutin and cutout temperature of the
> thermo fan.
> Stage 1: Cut in 89-94. Cut out 81. (degrees C)
> Stage 2: Cut in 95-100. Cut out 87.

The engines were designed to run at higher temperatures for emissions.
I've been naughty and put a thermostat and fan switch that runs about 5C cooler.
This moved the needle from the right of the LED to the left edge.





>
> I have always thought that when stage 2 cuts in, the engine is too
> HOT and should be allowed to cool. If you keep going after stage 2
> then you risk overheating to destruction.

No, if stage 2 comes on, you should notice the needle dropping rapidly.

The radiators and fans on the Australian delivered syncros are extremely large. They are designed to work in tropical countries with air conditioning. If your van overheats, there is something wrong.

I use Mobile 1 oil. This oil can run at very high temperatures and still maintain a good pressure. If you want to know more about oils, the companies have engineers that you can talk too. I have found them helpful and they know a lot more than me.

Be careful with non VW oil filters as they have different relief valves etc and could cause rod through block syndrome.

Phill
4
Gday Peter,

In my view, for the adverse conditions you speak of and before
seeking/committing to additional complex oil and water cooling
solutions, start with simpler remedies you can trial such as Mobil 1
engine oil and 50/50 mix of G12+ coolant.

Cheers.

Ken

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <kestel.p@...>
wrote:
>
> Now you have got me thinking. Have I done the right thing by adding
> an oil cooler?
>
> Maybe it is time for a little research.
> What is the optimum oil temperature?
> What is the optimum coolant temperatute?
>
> The Syncro already has an oil cooler inbuilt. They knew then that oil
> temperature (too high) was an issue, otherwise they would not have
> fitted the cooler. Make sense?
>
> If you look at the little table in the manual (page 7 appendices,
> Vehicle Care) there seems to be a maximum climate operating
> temperature of 40 degrees C.
>
> Also the manual defines the cutin and cutout temperature of the
> thermo fan.
> Stage 1: Cut in 89-94. Cut out 81. (degrees C)
> Stage 2: Cut in 95-100. Cut out 87.
>
> I have always thought that when stage 2 cuts in, the engine is too
> HOT and should be allowed to cool. If you keep going after stage 2
> then you risk overheating to destruction.
>
> So what should I (we) do?
>
5
Yeh done that already! Using Penrite HP30 20W-60 and Valvoline G-05
50/50 coolant mix.



--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <unclekenz@...>
wrote:
>
>
> Gday Peter,
>
> In my view, for the adverse conditions you speak of and before
> seeking/committing to additional complex oil and water cooling
> solutions, start with simpler remedies you can trial such as Mobil 1
> engine oil and 50/50 mix of G12+ coolant.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <kestel.p@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Now you have got me thinking. Have I done the right thing by
adding
> > an oil cooler?
> >
> > Maybe it is time for a little research.
> > What is the optimum oil temperature?
> > What is the optimum coolant temperatute?
> >
> > The Syncro already has an oil cooler inbuilt. They knew then that
oil
> > temperature (too high) was an issue, otherwise they would not have
> > fitted the cooler. Make sense?
> >
> > If you look at the little table in the manual (page 7 appendices,
> > Vehicle Care) there seems to be a maximum climate operating
> > temperature of 40 degrees C.
> >
> > Also the manual defines the cutin and cutout temperature of the
> > thermo fan.
> > Stage 1: Cut in 89-94. Cut out 81. (degrees C)
> > Stage 2: Cut in 95-100. Cut out 87.
> >
> > I have always thought that when stage 2 cuts in, the engine is too
> > HOT and should be allowed to cool. If you keep going after stage 2
> > then you risk overheating to destruction.
> >
> > So what should I (we) do?
> >
>
6
As Ecclesiastes reminds us: "there is nothing new under the sun"

Have a look at this link and a few others on the same site (http://
www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?
t=13579&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0). The little 1.6 diesel and
Turbo diesels put out an awful lot of heat and so oil cooling, air
flow etc has become a real problem. A lot of the answers to this
issue have been well covered.
7
The key word there is turbo.



> Alexander Sfakianos <witoke@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> As Ecclesiastes reminds us: "there is nothing new under the sun"
>
> Have a look at this link and a few others on the same site (http://
> www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?
> t=13579&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0). The little 1.6 diesel and
> Turbo diesels put out an awful lot of heat and so oil cooling, air
> flow etc has become a real problem. A lot of the answers to this
> issue have been well covered.