Indel B Fridges

Those that were on the Syncro tour would know I was having a bit of trouble keeping my
fridge cool. it is an Indel B model (in Syncro Trakka 89). The freezer was staying cold but
the fridge was letting me down big time in the heat. Any advice or the details of repairers
in the Sydney area would be more than welcome as I'm just getting around to addressing
this problem.

Cheers Murray

Pity you are not in Perth Murray, I have an Indel B that I no longer need. It has had a new replacement Danfoss compressor which restored its efficiency – nice and cold.  You may have to go that way to fix yours.  Waco use the same unit and are agents for parts.

Regards

Yurik

 


From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of muzmarinator
Sent: Saturday, 21 April 2007 9:10 AM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Indel B Fridges

 

Those that were on the Syncro tour would know I was having a bit of trouble keeping my
fridge cool. it is an Indel B model (in Syncro Trakka 89). The freezer was staying cold but
the fridge was letting me down big time in the heat. Any advice or the details of repairers
in the Sydney area would be more than welcome as I'm just getting around to addressing
this problem.

Cheers Murray

Yurik
Can you tell me what you use in place of your Indel B?

Hope everyone will be happy with the article in VWMA. Pictures will make it look good anyway.


Bruce


On 21/04/2007, at 2:13 PM, Yurik Orlowsky wrote:


Pity you are not in Perth Murray, I have an Indel B that I no longer need. It has had a new replacement Danfoss compressor which restored its efficiency – nice and cold. You may have to go that way to fix yours. Waco use the same unit and are agents for parts.

Regards

Yurik


From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of muzmarinator
Sent: Saturday, 21 April 2007 9:10 AM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Indel B Fridges

Those that were on the Syncro tour would know I was having a bit of trouble keeping my
fridge cool. it is an Indel B model (in Syncro Trakka 89). The freezer was staying cold but
the fridge was letting me down big time in the heat. Any advice or the details of repairers
in the Sydney area would be more than welcome as I'm just getting around to addressing
this problem.

Cheers Murray




Bruce,
 
After using several different 240V/propane refrigerators - with mediocre results in Queensland and outback NSW summers - I bought a 30 litre Engel and learned what real refrigeration was all about.  Turn it up one notch too high and everything freezes solid.  I did it several times before I got to the right setting to prevent the rock solid condition.  This Engel was mid 1980's and I understand that the efficiency has improved still further since then.
 
As  result of your impending story in VWMA, I have taken a subscription.
 
Les
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Indel B Fridges

Yurik

        Can you tell me what you use in place of your Indel B?

Hope everyone will be happy with the article in VWMA. Pictures will make it look good anyway.


Bruce


.

Bruce,

 

I replaced the Indel B with an Angel of similar size and style – in fact it fitted the opening to the mm.  This Engel fridge is more efficient drawing less current and it matches well with my solar panel (90W) and 2nd battery system. As well, a new fridge pleases my wife.

 

Yurik

 


From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Alison & Bruce Black
Sent: Saturday, 21 April 2007 5:11 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Indel B Fridges

 

Yurik

        Can you tell me what you use in place of your Indel B?

 

Hope everyone will be happy with the article in VWMA. Pictures will make it look good anyway.

 

 

Bruce

 

 

On 21/04/2007, at 2:13 PM, Yurik Orlowsky wrote:



 

Pity you are not in Perth Murray, I have an Indel B that I no longer need. It has had a new replacement Danfoss compressor which restored its efficiency – nice and cold.  You may have to go that way to fix yours.  Waco use the same unit and are agents for parts.

Regards

Yurik

 


From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of muzmarinator
Sent: Saturday, 21 April 2007 9:10 AM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Indel B Fridges

 

Those that were on the Syncro tour would know I was having a bit of trouble keeping my
fridge cool. it is an Indel B model (in Syncro Trakka 89). The freezer was staying cold but
the fridge was letting me down big time in the heat. Any advice or the details of repairers
in the Sydney area would be more than welcome as I'm just getting around to addressing
this problem.

Cheers Murray

 

 

 

I should have mentioned that my Engel is a chest refrigerator - top opening lid, as opposed to front opening, as in the domestic refrigerator. 
 
I have found that the top opening has an advantage over the front opening.  When the front opening door is opened, the cold air inside, being far heavier than the ambient, flows down and out, and is replaced by the ambient, which the refrigerator then has to cool down all over again. 
 
With the top opening, no cold air flows out when the lid is opened.  In terms of power consumption, there is less load imposed when the cold air does not flow out every time the door is opened..
 
However, pleasing the wife is a very serious component in any consideration and could well out-gun matters of efficiency.
 
Les
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 11:55 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Indel B Fridges

Bruce,

I replaced the Indel B with an Angel of similar size and style – in fact it fitted the opening to the mm.  This Engel fridge is more efficient drawing less current and it matches well with my solar panel (90W) and 2nd battery system. As well, a new fridge pleases my wife.

Yurik


From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Alison & Bruce Black
Sent: Saturday, 21 April 2007 5:11 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Indel B Fridges

Yurik

        Can you tell me what you use in place of your Indel B?

Hope everyone will be happy with the article in VWMA. Pictures will make it look good anyway.

Bruce

On 21/04/2007, at 2:13 PM, Yurik Orlowsky wrote:



Pity you are not in Perth Murray, I have an Indel B that I no longer need. It has had a new replacement Danfoss compressor which restored its efficiency – nice and cold.  You may have to go that way to fix yours.  Waco use the same unit and are agents for parts.

Regards

Yurik


From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of muzmarinator
Sent: Saturday, 21 April 2007 9:10 AM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Indel B Fridges

Those that were on the Syncro tour would know I was having a bit of trouble keeping my
fridge cool. it is an Indel B model (in Syncro Trakka 89). The freezer was staying cold but
the fridge was letting me down big time in the heat. Any advice or the details of repairers
in the Sydney area would be more than welcome as I'm just getting around to addressing
this problem.

Cheers Murray

You are quite right about pleasing the better half. After our experience of a camper trailer and a chest type fridge with some things mush in the bottom after some rough roads, efficiency was not on top of the list. I have a Vitrofrigo which works very well but was interested to hear what others had. Thanks Yurik. I think if I was buying one now I would buy an Engel.

Bruce



On 22/04/2007, at 9:52 AM, Les Harris wrote:


I should have mentioned that my Engel is a chest refrigerator - top opening lid, as opposed to front opening, as in the domestic refrigerator.
I have found that the top opening has an advantage over the front opening. When the front opening door is opened, the cold air inside, being far heavier than the ambient, flows down and out, and is replaced by the ambient, which the refrigerator then has to cool down all over again.
With the top opening, no cold air flows out when the lid is opened. In terms of power consumption, there is less load imposed when the cold air does not flow out every time the door is opened..
However, pleasing the wife is a very serious component in any consideration and could well out-gun matters of efficiency.
Les
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 11:55 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Indel B Fridges


Bruce,

I replaced the Indel B with an Angel of similar size and style – in fact it fitted the opening to the mm. This Engel fridge is more efficient drawing less current and it matches well with my solar panel (90W) and 2nd battery system. As well, a new fridge pleases my wife.

Yurik


From:

Gday Murray and All

As I understand it, there were at least 3 of us suffering from warm Indel B fridges on Tour 07, mine being one of them. In my view, the problem wasn't so much malfunctioning fridges, it was more to do with inadequate charging systems on board, trying to maintain a strong enough charge in the auxiliary battery to run the fridge efficiently. In particular, Murray is talking about the week of the Tour when none of us were able to recharge our batteries from 240vac, hence all power generation was from onboard sources only. So after just a few days, we were having problems with fridges keeping cold enough. In my case, that's when I started thinking about options for upgrading power generating equipment to address the shortfall such as bigger and newer technology batteries, solar panels or smart regulators etc.

Since the end of the Tour, I still haven't decided on a major equipment purchase for upgrading power generation. Instead and as a possible prelude to that, I've concentrated on reviewing what's already on board and upgrading these items first, for example ...

Getting rid of the piddling old tech Arlec 12 240vac charger installed by Trakka and replacing it with a newer technology 3 stage 30Amp smart charger in conjunction with a new 100Amp AGM deep cycle auxiliary battery. I found this was the largest battery that would still fit inside the original Trakka battery box. The new charger has plenty of capacity to charge a larger battery should I decide to go that way in the future, it also has 2 independent outlets so I now permanently connect both batteries to the charger, I've found this maximises the charge into the batteries and will extend battery life by keeping them in optimum charged condition, particularly when the syncro is garaged for long periods. I've also noticed how easily the starter motor now starts the engine.

I and my auto electrician found that the Bosch 90Amp alternator was down on voltage output so he overhauled the alternator to get it back to the regulated 14vdc as per specs.

In my view, all the 12vdc current carrying wiring installed by Trakka and others are minimal capacities and with limited if any allowances for voltage drop. They also didn't take advantage of the more efficient negative wire chassis return method of wiring; instead they installed long runs of negative cabling as well. So in particular, I've changed all negative (-12vdc) current carrying cabling to chassis return method and instead, added what was the negative wire to the positive wire, effectively doubling the capacity of the +12vdc wiring. This should enable all heavier current drawing equipment to draw or deliver as much current as needed and also limit voltage drop. As an example, it was disappointing to find that the mm2 wiring installed by Trakka to service the Indel B fridge was clearly smaller than the factory installed mm2 wiring that came with the fridge.

So essentially I've upgraded all heavier current carrying cabling such as between the alternator and the auxiliary battery, the smart charger and the auxiliary battery, the auxiliary battery and the fridge, the new and much shorter negative chassis return to the auxiliary battery, much shorter negative chassis return cable to the 240vac charger and an extra permanent negative chassis return cable to the alternator.

Also I found overheating/resistance problems with the bullet connectors Trakka used on their cabling, so I've changed everything to the newer and superior mini Anderson type connectors, these have eliminated the high resistance problems.

There are also a few things to check yourself about the Indel fridge, but first you need to remove the fridge.

At the back of the fridge, look for the built-in "sucker" fan on top of the finned condenser. Is it working? I found the connectors for powering it were reversed for polarity, the fan wasn't operating. Big mistake. Remove/reinsert the plug connector the right way round.

Is the finned condenser clogged up with all manner of  rubbish ... dust, insects, lint etc? Lowers the efficiency of the fridge if it is. Gently clean the condenser all over where possible (small soft brush and vacuum cleaner) and gently straighten the fragile metal fins to help the fan pull air through the condenser.

Remove the plastic moulded exhaust duct on top of the fridge. This duct is supposed to direct heat drawn by the fan from the condenser and exhaust it into the room at the top front of the fridge. I found this was pretty inefficient, because the duct perimeter isn't sealed to the metal casing of the fridge it's fixed to, a lot of the drawn heat escapes from the duct back into the cupboard space around the fridge. I solved that by adding double sided sealing tape to all edges of the plastic moulded duct where it fits down onto the fridge metal casing. It now exhausts the heat much better out the front vent and as well, I can now more easily tell if the fan is working by checking the presence of ducted air coming out. 

Are the door seals deteriorated? They should be after 16+ years so they should be replaced, but I haven't yet investigated who does the seals for this fridge. If suppliers can cut and plastic weld the seals to suit this size fridge, then that would be good. For now, I've carried out a few repairs on them, particularly the bottom seal as it seems to be the most easily damaged. Give them a good clean and check the mating metal surface as well. Smear some vaseline on the seals to help get a better seal.

The plastic "hold closed" clip at the top of the door gets a bit weak in its operation too, doesn't fully push up (clip) into place when closing the door. Solve this by fashioning some sponge rubber small enough to fit into the space under the clip. The sponge acts like a mild spring and helps push the clip fully up into place for holding the door closed.

To get a stronger door seal happening, try this simple mod. The door clip closes onto the metal screen on top of the fridge. Only for that length of metal screen that matches the length of the door clip, using any tool of your choice, bend (press) the metal screen inwards, probably by a few mm. So now, when the door clip holds the door closed, its applying added pressure on the door seal. Works for me.

If you read the Indel B manual that came with the fridge, one handy hint is that if you fairly closely fill the fridge with items which HOLD the coldness, as opposed to having lots of empty space that simply holds cold air, you will significantly reduce the loss of coldness when opening and closing the fridge. So for example, if you have got all the provisions you need to carry in the fridge but there is still lots of air space, add more containers with, for example, water. Or if you are a bloke ......... beer. Or whatever.

I've just been away for 4 days up to the Barrington Tops with no 240vac re-charging at all. Admittedly the ambient temperature was not as hot as it was on Tour 07. Also I tend to turn down or turn off the fridge overnight to conserve the battery, particularly as I found the fridge was cold enough anyway to get through the night hours, which it did. At no stage did I have to worry about the fridge warming up, the meat froze in the freezer and I maintained a good charge in the auxiliary battery. All good.

I intend monitoring the system when and where I can, whether or not I go the next step and add more charging equipment is still open, depending upon future experience with what I have now.

Hope this is food for thought and action for someone. Cheers.

Ken

 

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "muzmarinator" <m.lee@...> wrote:
>
> Those that were on the Syncro tour would know I was having a bit of trouble keeping my
> fridge cool. it is an Indel B model (in Syncro Trakka 89). The freezer was staying cold but
> the fridge was letting me down big time in the heat. Any advice or the details of repairers
> in the Sydney area would be more than welcome as I'm just getting around to addressing
> this problem.
>
> Cheers Murray
>

, it also has 2 independent outlets so I now permanently
> connect both batteries to the charger,

I hope that you have some sort electrical isolation between the batteries when they are not being charged.


>
> I and my auto electrician found that the Bosch 90Amp alternator was down
> on voltage output so he overhauled the alternator to get it back to the
> regulated 14vdc as per specs.

That involves a new regulator. I hope it didn't cost much.
>
> In my view, all the 12vdc current carrying wiring installed by Trakka
> and others are minimal capacities and with limited if any allowances for
> voltage drop. They also didn't take advantage of the more efficient
> negative wire chassis return method of wiring; instead they installed
> long runs of negative cabling as well. So in particular, I've changed
> all negative (-12vdc) current carrying cabling to chassis return method
> and instead, added what was the negative wire to the positive wire,
> effectively doubling the capacity of the +12vdc wiring.

Do I understand that you had a copper conductor negative return previously and now you use the chassis/body as a conductor? Not a good idea. Much more voltage drop through the body than a copper conductor.

Phill
Many thanks Ken and others for all the fridge feedback, most helpful.
One note, for the second week away after the tour we were plugged into
240 and still had the problem. Also, when I checked the battery while
away it seemed to be holding charge well through the solar panels
(apart from on one occassion). I might start with the maintance steps
Ken suggested and go from there - see if I can overcome the problem
without major expendature! I have had it out but i'll know more about
what to look for next time.

Cheers murray
Murray,
 
You have done a thorough job of looking into your lack of cold but I must add emphasis to what Phill said.  There is no substitute for a copper wire earth return path.  Using the chassis/body as an earth return path is always second best. 
 
I will add one thing:  soldered connections are always electrically superior to anything else.  Connectors, be they spade, plug or screw, are the poor alternative.  Connectors are used as an aid to serviceability and to production on a production line.  For people such as us, the owners who are striving to get the best performance out of an ageing vehicle, using a copper wire return and soldered connections gives the highest possible return, ie, the least voltage loss.  The thicker the cabling, both positive and negative, the better.  There are formulaes to establish this but, in our Syncros, just use the highest amperage cable you can find.
 
I am about to install a Pirahna battery isolator (Australian) and I will report to the group on this.  Basically, it is a smart isolator, which brings the main battery up to (from memory) something like 13.6 volts before it directs charge to the auxiliary batteries. 
 
Solar cells, which originally cost about the same as gold, are crashing in price as the economies of mass production kick in.  A roof covered with solar cells is now within reach of mere mortals and impoverished Syncro owners.
 
Deep cycle batteries are the go for best performance in respect of running a refrigerator in Australian summer conditions.  Simply, deep cycle means that you can run a battery down to next to nothing without killing it.  The normal car battery is designed to carry enough charge to start the vehicle and cope with the variations of the electrical load but only within narrow margins. 
 
Les
 
Gday again Murray,

Thanks for your reply. From what you've said, a few things come to mind.

We both have the same fridge. My fridge now works pretty much to Indel
specs as long as I give it a well charged battery ... it freezes things
placed in the freezer and pulls down to around 4-5 degrees+ in the
fridge section. When the battery is well charged, the compressor works
happily. When the battery is lowish, the compressor doesn't sound so
happy. And when the battery is very low, the compressor stops. If it
sounds to you like the compressor is working ok but it's not pulling the
temperature down, then you'd have to suspect there may be a loss of
refrigerant. Off to a refrigeration repairman and maybe check/replace
the door seals at the same time. Remember, a eutectic compressor fridge
this size is worth a small fortune to replace new, so maintaining this
one remains the best option, assuming there is no other major damage to
refrigeration components. If it is low on gas, don't run the fridge,
you'll only over-stress the working components and end up doing more
damage.

As far as your present charging system goes and if you are unsure, take
the van to an auto electrician and get the alternator output and the
auxiliary battery checked. Also get him to check your cabling for
voltage drop, in particular between the alternator/isolator/auxiliary
battery, between the fridge/auxiliary battery and between the 240vac
charger/auxiliary battery. If the voltage drop is excessive anywhere,
congrats, this is yet another fix job to add to your todo list.

Remember, the alternator and auxiliary battery are your frontline
sources of power generation and supply and should be in top condition to
support the camper setup. Your present solar setup is relatively minor
and only ancillary to both of those. Mind you, if you could tilt the 2
solar panels to follow the sun, most likely they would run the fridge
during the day on there own and so save the battery for night time use.
But I know you can't do that.

If you still have the combination of an older 240vac small output
charger and elderly wet cell battery (as I had before), then you do have
a problem, as I did. Wasn't up to the task. Update asap, ideally aim to
get it all done before the next Syncro Tour. We'll compare notes then.

I suggest you first do some research on campervan electrics, also ask
plenty of questions from those who really do know what they are talking
about on this topic (there aren't many) and I'm sure you'll be happy
with the results and your efforts. Cheers Murray.

Ken










--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "muzmarinator" <m.lee@...>
wrote:
>
> Many thanks Ken and others for all the fridge feedback, most helpful.
> One note, for the second week away after the tour we were plugged into
> 240 and still had the problem. Also, when I checked the battery while
> away it seemed to be holding charge well through the solar panels
> (apart from on one occassion). I might start with the maintance steps
> Ken suggested and go from there - see if I can overcome the problem
> without major expendature! I have had it out but i'll know more about
> what to look for next time.
>
> Cheers murray
>