Inner CV Tool

I've just found that Supercheap Auto (not a place that I normally shop
at) has 600mm 1/2" drive socket extension bars. This is great for
reaching the inner CV bolts. This makes it much easier to use a tension
wrench instead of trying to find space under the car.

It appears to be a common problem the CV bolts coming loose. I have have
spoken to a few VW mechanics who say that it never happens to correctly
tensioned bolts so I think there may be a problem with dipsticks trying
to use allen keys instead of proper tools.

This reminds me that Greg missed telling the group one of the aspects of his CV joint failure on his way back from Cairns – it involved someone using silicone sealant on the joint!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Greg, please fill us in on this.

Les

 


From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of hdvwoc
Sent: 22 November 2009 10:00
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Inner CV Tool

 

 

I've just found that Supercheap Auto (not a place that I normally shop
at) has 600mm 1/2" drive socket extension bars. This is great for
reaching the inner CV bolts. This makes it much easier to use a tension
wrench instead of trying to find space under the car.

It appears to be a common problem the CV bolts coming loose. I have have
spoken to a few VW mechanics who say that it never happens to correctly
tensioned bolts so I think there may be a problem with dipsticks trying
to use allen keys instead of proper tools.

After years of working on rally cars, where everything that can come loose does, I have a fetish about locktite. Well I had an Audi A3 and I thought those M5 screws holding the number plate on look like they may rattle loose, so I used some heavy duty railway grade locktite. Anyhow while I was in Queensland, I decided to trade the A3 in on a TT and swap the plates over. Well to undo one of the philps head scews I pushed on a well fitting screwdriver while my assistant turned it with lock grips. After about 20 minutes the screw was removed. The other scew however refused to budge and was eventually removed by the Audi dealer.

Now this has me worried when VW say to use D6 locking compound on the front axle spline after all of the dramas I have had removing it. What is D6? Should I use locktite or neversieze?

Phill



> Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> This reminds me that Greg missed telling the group one of the aspects of
> his
> CV joint failure on his way back from Cairns - it involved someone using
> silicone sealant on the joint!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Greg, please fill us in on this.
>
> Les
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hdvwoc
> Sent: 22 November 2009 10:00
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Inner CV Tool
>
>
>
>
>
> I've just found that Supercheap Auto (not a place that I normally shop
> at) has 600mm 1/2" drive socket extension bars. This is great for
> reaching the inner CV bolts. This makes it much easier to use a tension
> wrench instead of trying to find space under the car.
>
> It appears to be a common problem the CV bolts coming loose. I have have
> spoken to a few VW mechanics who say that it never happens to correctly
> tensioned bolts so I think there may be a problem with dipsticks trying
> to use allen keys instead of proper tools.

Phill,

We mentioned this briefly at the DOTVW and I would be interested to hear the opinion of people like Alf and Greg Esposito, both of whom are mechanics.

A spline is a device designed to transmit heavy loads circumferentially – i.e., at 90 degrees to the axis of a shaft.  Applying locking compound to a spline in no way adds to the ability of the shaft to transmit a load.  A retaining nut on the same splined shaft is a different matter; locking compound prevents the nut from loosening.

I can’t see any benefit in applying locking compound to the splines and would not do it myself.

Les

 


From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of plander@optusnet.com.au
Sent: 22 November 2009 10:42
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Inner CV Tool

 

 

After years of working on rally cars, where everything that can come loose does, I have a fetish about locktite. Well I had an Audi A3 and I thought those M5 screws holding the number plate on look like they may rattle loose, so I used some heavy duty railway grade locktite. Anyhow while I was in Queensland , I decided to trade the A3 in on a TT and swap the plates over. Well to undo one of the philps head scews I pushed on a well fitting screwdriver while my assistant turned it with lock grips. After about 20 minutes the screw was removed. The other scew however refused to budge and was eventually removed by the Audi dealer.

Now this has me worried when VW say to use D6 locking compound on the front axle spline after all of the dramas I have had removing it. What is D6? Should I use locktite or neversieze?

Phill

> Les Harris <leslieharris@ optusnet. com.au>
wrote:
>
> This reminds me that Greg missed telling the group one of the aspects of
> his
> CV joint failure on his way back from
w:st="on">Cairns - it involved someone using
> silicone sealant on the joint!!!!!!! !!!!!!!
>
> Greg, please fill us in on this.
>
> Les
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com]
On Behalf Of hdvwoc
> Sent: 22 November 2009 10:00
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Inner CV Tool
>
>
>
>
>
> I've just found that Supercheap Auto (not a place that I normally shop
> at) has 600mm 1/2" drive socket extension bars. This is great for
> reaching the inner CV bolts. This makes it much easier to use a tension
> wrench instead of trying to find space under the car.
>
> It appears to be a common problem the CV bolts coming loose. I have have
> spoken to a few VW mechanics who say that it never happens to correctly
> tensioned bolts so I think there may be a problem with dipsticks trying
> to use allen keys instead of proper tools.

Maybe it is to take up any slack and stop any movement? Any movement would cause wear.

Maybe we need to look outside the square and D6 may also be a sealant to stop water ingress or corrosion on the spline?

We really need to know what D6 is.

Les, don't you have some engineering mates that would have an opinion?



> Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> Phill,
>
> We mentioned this briefly at the DOTVW and I would be interested to hear
> the
> opinion of people like Alf and Greg Esposito, both of whom are
> mechanics.
>
> A spline is a device designed to transmit heavy loads circumferentially
> -
> i.e., at 90 degrees to the axis of a shaft. Applying locking compound
> to a
> spline in no way adds to the ability of the shaft to transmit a load. A
> retaining nut on the same splined shaft is a different matter; locking
> compound prevents the nut from loosening.
>
> I can't see any benefit in applying locking compound to the splines and
> would not do it myself.
>
> Les
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> plander@optusnet.com.au
> Sent: 22 November 2009 10:42
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Inner CV Tool
>
>
>
>
>
> After years of working on rally cars, where everything that can come
> loose
> does, I have a fetish about locktite. Well I had an Audi A3 and I
> thought
> those M5 screws holding the number plate on look like they may rattle
> loose,
> so I used some heavy duty railway grade locktite. Anyhow while I was in
> Queensland, I decided to trade the A3 in on a TT and swap the plates
> over.
> Well to undo one of the philps head scews I pushed on a well fitting
> screwdriver while my assistant turned it with lock grips. After about 20
> minutes the screw was removed. The other scew however refused to budge
> and
> was eventually removed by the Audi dealer.
>
> Now this has me worried when VW say to use D6 locking compound on the
> front
> axle spline after all of the dramas I have had removing it. What is D6?
> Should I use locktite or neversieze?
>
> Phill
>
> > Les Harris <leslieharris@ <mailto:leslieharris%40optusnet.com.au>
> optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> >
> > This reminds me that Greg missed telling the group one of the aspects
> of
> > his
> > CV joint failure on his way back from Cairns - it involved someone
> using
> > silicone sealant on the joint!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > Greg, please fill us in on this.
> >
> > Les
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: Syncro_T3_Australia
> <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hdvwoc
> > Sent: 22 November 2009 10:00
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Inner CV Tool
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I've just found that Supercheap Auto (not a place that I normally shop
> > at) has 600mm 1/2" drive socket extension bars. This is great for
> > reaching the inner CV bolts. This makes it much easier to use a
> tension
> > wrench instead of trying to find space under the car.
> >
> > It appears to be a common problem the CV bolts coming loose. I have
> have
> > spoken to a few VW mechanics who say that it never happens to
> correctly
> > tensioned bolts so I think there may be a problem with dipsticks
> trying
> > to use allen keys instead of proper tools.

Phill,

If splines are sloppy, they weren’t correctly machined in the first place.  Splines are normally cut to be a close sliding fit and, the greater the load to be transmitted, the closer the fit should be.  (There is a side issue with splines that you and others would be aware of and that is the formation of rust, which can be as strong as any locking compound!)

My view of using locking compound on properly machined splines is based on a lifetime as an engineer and not being able to recall any instance of its use in this context.  I can recall it being used in small mechanisms subject to high vibration, where the object was to solidify the entire assembly as a safeguard against being shaken loose, but not on drive shafts which are transmitting significant and variable loads.

As you say, we need to know what D6 might be.

Les

 


From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of plander@optusnet.com.au
Sent: 22 November 2009 11:48
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Inner CV Tool

 

 

Maybe it is to take up any slack and stop any movement? Any movement would cause wear.

Maybe we need to look outside the square and D6 may also be a sealant to stop water ingress or corrosion on the spline?

We really need to know what D6 is.

Les, don't you have some engineering mates that would have an opinion?

> Les Harris <leslieharris@ optusnet. com.au>
wrote:
>
> Phill,
>
> We mentioned this briefly at the DOTVW and I would be interested to hear
> the
> opinion of people like Alf and Greg Esposito, both of whom are
> mechanics.
>
> A spline is a device designed to transmit heavy loads circumferentially
> -
> i.e., at 90 degrees to the axis of a shaft. Applying locking compound
> to a
> spline in no way adds to the ability of the shaft to transmit a load. A
> retaining nut on the same splined shaft is a different matter; locking
> compound prevents the nut from loosening.
>
> I can't see any benefit in applying locking compound to the splines and
> would not do it myself.
>
> Les
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com]
On Behalf Of
> plander@optusnet. com.au
> Sent: 22 November 2009 10:42
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Inner CV Tool
>
>
>
>
>
> After years of working on rally cars, where everything that can come
> loose
> does, I have a fetish about locktite. Well I had an Audi A3 and I
> thought
> those M5 screws holding the number plate on look like they may rattle
> loose,
> so I used some heavy duty railway grade locktite. Anyhow while I was in
> Queensland ,
I decided to trade the A3 in on a TT and swap the plates
> over.
> Well to undo one of the philps head scews I pushed on a well fitting
> screwdriver while my assistant turned it with lock grips. After about 20
> minutes the screw was removed. The other scew however refused to budge
> and
> was eventually removed by the Audi dealer.
>
> Now this has me worried when VW say to use D6 locking compound on the
> front
> axle spline after all of the dramas I have had removing it. What is D6?
> Should I use locktite or neversieze?
>
> Phill
>
> > Les Harris <leslieharris@ <mailto:leslieharri s%40optusnet. com.au>
> optusnet.com. au> wrote:
> >
> > This reminds me that Greg missed telling the group one of the aspects
> of
> > his
> > CV joint failure on his way back from
w:st="on">Cairns - it involved someone
> using
> > silicone sealant on the joint!!!!!!! !!!!!!!
> >
> > Greg, please fill us in on this.
> >
> > Les
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: Syncro_T3_Australia
> <mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia% 40yahoogroups. com>
> @yahoogroups. com
> > [mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia
> <mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia% 40yahoogroups. com>
> @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of hdvwoc
> > Sent: 22 November 2009 10:00
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia <mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia% 40yahoogroups. com>
> @yahoogroups. com
> > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Inner CV Tool
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I've just found that Supercheap Auto (not a place that I normally
shop
> > at) has 600mm 1/2" drive socket extension bars. This is great
for
> > reaching the inner CV bolts. This makes it much easier to use a
> tension
> > wrench instead of trying to find space under the car.
> >
> > It appears to be a common problem the CV bolts coming loose. I have
> have
> > spoken to a few VW mechanics who say that it never happens to
> correctly
> > tensioned bolts so I think there may be a problem with dipsticks
> trying
> > to use allen keys instead of proper tools.

Phil/Les,
If vw say to use locktite on a spline it is because they fear the small amount of play,  that has to be there, will eventually with clockwise and anti clockwise forces on it, flog out the splines. The option to this would have been to machine the surfaces with an interference fit (i.e. the hole is smaller than the shaft) making Assembly and disassembly on the car impossible. Would I use loctite there? If I was fitting a new good quality shaft that I would not have to remove any time soon for any reason (i.e.wheel bearing) and doing of road work, YES. With the not so hard off roading we will be doing and the repairs being a work in progress I wont be locking mine just yet. Greg
 
P.S. never use silicone on the mating surfaces of cv joints, this prevent the surfaces from locking together and the flex causes the bolts to come loose.

--- On Sat, 21/11/09, Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

From: Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: RE: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Inner CV Tool
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Received: Saturday, 21 November, 2009, 4:28 PM

 

Phill,

We mentioned this briefly at the DOTVW and I would be interested to hear the opinion of people like Alf and Greg Esposito, both of whom are mechanics.

A spline is a device designed to transmit heavy loads circumferentially – i.e., at 90 degrees to the axis of a shaft.  Applying locking compound to a spline in no way adds to the ability of the shaft to transmit a load.  A retaining nut on the same splined shaft is a different matter; locking compound prevents the nut from loosening.

I can’t see any benefit in applying locking compound to the splines and would not do it myself.

Les

 


From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of plander@optusnet. com.au
Sent: 22 November 2009 10:42
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Inner CV Tool

 

 

After years of working on rally cars, where everything that can come loose does, I have a fetish about locktite. Well I had an Audi A3 and I thought those M5 screws holding the number plate on look like they may rattle loose, so I used some heavy duty railway grade locktite. Anyhow while I was in Queensland , I decided to trade the A3 in on a TT and swap the plates over. Well to undo one of the philps head scews I pushed on a well fitting screwdriver while my assistant turned it with lock grips. After about 20 minutes the screw was removed. The other scew however refused to budge and was eventually removed by the Audi dealer.

Now this has me worried when VW say to use D6 locking compound on the front axle spline after all of the dramas I have had removing it. What is D6? Should I use locktite or neversieze?

Phill

> Les Harris <leslieharris@ optusnet. com.au> wrote:
>
> This reminds me that Greg missed telling the group one of the aspects of
> his
> CV joint failure on his way back from Cairns - it involved someone using
> silicone sealant on the joint!!!!!!! !!!!!!!
>
> Greg, please fill us in on this.
>
> Les
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of hdvwoc
> Sent: 22 November 2009 10:00
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Inner CV Tool
>
>
>
>
>
> I've just found that Supercheap Auto (not a place that I normally shop
> at) has 600mm 1/2" drive socket extension bars. This is great for
> reaching the inner CV bolts. This makes it much easier to use a tension
> wrench instead of trying to find space under the car.
>
> It appears to be a common problem the CV bolts coming loose. I have have
> spoken to a few VW mechanics who say that it never happens to correctly
> tensioned bolts so I think there may be a problem with dipsticks trying
> to use allen keys instead of proper tools.


Win 1 of 4 Sony home entertainment packs thanks to Yahoo!7. Enter now.
Phill and ALL,
Yes it seems to be a dilemma for many syncronauts pleading "why me?" when it comes to unexpected loose, lost and/or damage done as a consequence of miscreant CV bolts.
The reliable solution as described to me by someone whose experience I respect is essentially as follows ...
1. Anally, ALL affected mating surfaces, bolts, plates, washers MUST first be scrupulously inspected and cleaned before rebuild. If it's all not "eat your dinner off it" equivalent, then the prep surfaces are still unacceptable!
2. ONLY use/re-use genuine AND undamaged CV bolts. Despite what may be said officially, experience dictates that used genuine bolts visually inspected and found to be undamaged/unstressed are quite satisfactory. So much so, he said anyone reluctant to re-use genuine used and undamaged CV bolts, please send them to him, thank you!
3. MUST install the special grip washers as were originally installed on the CV bolts. For peace of mind, replace with new. Alternately, closely eyeball used ones, only re-use ones which are still in good condition ... ones that look suspiciously like they have lost their "bite", then replace. I understand, some service people remove/lose/forget these washers.
4. As a bolt group, evenly and progressively in stages, tighten bolts to spec with a torque wrench. Finally, double check all torqued bolts.
5. Never use locktite or equivalent on CV bolts, do the work correctly instead for reliability and longevity.
6. Anyone using locktite on CV bolts are either ignorant, inexperienced or sloppy or all three.
Cheers.
Ken



-----Original Message-----
From: <plander@optusnet.com.au>
Sent: Sunday, 22 November 2009 10:42 AM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Inner CV Tool


After years of working on rally cars, where everything that can come loose does, I have a fetish about locktite. Well I had an Audi A3 and I thought those M5 screws holding the number plate on look like they may rattle loose, so I used some heavy duty railway grade locktite. Anyhow while I was in Queensland, I decided to trade the A3 in on a TT and swap the plates over. Well to undo one of the philps head scews I pushed on a well fitting screwdriver while my assistant turned it with lock grips. After about 20 minutes the screw was removed. The other scew however refused to budge and was eventually removed by the Audi dealer.

Now this has me worried when VW say to use D6 locking compound on the front axle spline after all of the dramas I have had removing it. What is D6? Should I use locktite or neversieze?

Phill

> Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> This reminds me that Greg missed telling the group one of the aspects of
> his
> CV joint failure on his way back from Cairns - it involved someone using
> silicone sealant on the joint!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Greg, please fill us in on this.
>
> Les
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hdvwoc
> Sent: 22 November 2009 10:00
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Inner CV Tool
>
>
>
>
>
> I've just found that Supercheap Auto (not a place that I normally shop
> at) has 600mm 1/2" drive socket extension bars. This is great for
> reaching the inner CV bolts. This makes it much easier to use a tension
> wrench instead of trying to find space under the car.
>
> It appears to be a common problem the CV bolts coming loose. I have have
> spoken to a few VW mechanics who say that it never happens to correctly
> tensioned bolts so I think there may be a problem with dipsticks trying
> to use allen keys instead of proper tools.
Great advice, Ken. I would offer just one additional point for your
consideration:
toss the 6 point (Allen head) bolts, and use the 12 point (triple
square). Sorry, I forget the precise nomenclature for that bolt, but the
sockets don't wallow out like the six point ones tend to do. Add a nice
Hazet bit, and you're set!

Larry Hamm
USA

Ken Garratt wrote:
> Phill and ALL,
> Yes it seems to be a dilemma for many syncronauts pleading "why me?" when it comes to unexpected loose, lost and/or damage done as a consequence of miscreant CV bolts.
> The reliable solution as described to me by someone whose experience I respect is essentially as follows ...
> 1. Anally, ALL affected mating surfaces, bolts, plates, washers MUST first be scrupulously inspected and cleaned before rebuild. If it's all not "eat your dinner off it" equivalent, then the prep surfaces are still unacceptable!
> 2. ONLY use/re-use genuine AND undamaged CV bolts. Despite what may be said officially, experience dictates that used genuine bolts visually inspected and found to be undamaged/unstressed are quite satisfactory. So much so, he said anyone reluctant to re-use genuine used and undamaged CV bolts, please send them to him, thank you!
> 3. MUST install the special grip washers as were originally installed on the CV bolts. For peace of mind, replace with new. Alternately, closely eyeball used ones, only re-use ones which are still in good condition ... ones that look suspiciously like they have lost their "bite", then replace. I understand, some service people remove/lose/forget these washers.
> 4. As a bolt group, evenly and progressively in stages, tighten bolts to spec with a torque wrench. Finally, double check all torqued bolts.
> 5. Never use locktite or equivalent on CV bolts, do the work correctly instead for reliability and longevity.
> 6. Anyone using locktite on CV bolts are either ignorant, inexperienced or sloppy or all three.
> Cheers.
> Ken
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <plander@optusnet.com.au>
> Sent: Sunday, 22 November 2009 10:42 AM
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Inner CV Tool
>
>
> After years of working on rally cars, where everything that can come loose does, I have a fetish about locktite. Well I had an Audi A3 and I thought those M5 screws holding the number plate on look like they may rattle loose, so I used some heavy duty railway grade locktite. Anyhow while I was in Queensland, I decided to trade the A3 in on a TT and swap the plates over. Well to undo one of the philps head scews I pushed on a well fitting screwdriver while my assistant turned it with lock grips. After about 20 minutes the screw was removed. The other scew however refused to budge and was eventually removed by the Audi dealer.
>
> Now this has me worried when VW say to use D6 locking compound on the front axle spline after all of the dramas I have had removing it. What is D6? Should I use locktite or neversieze?
>
>
Gday Larry,
All bar 2 of my CV bolts are hex. I do agree about the two x 12 pointers I have ... I do prefer them but other priorities dictate staying with the hex type for now. I tend to think forwarned is forearmed, once users get a grip on the issues, hex is ok. Perhaps a different story if work is farmed out.
Maybe US had 12 pointers originally and we had std. hex .. not sure.
Cheers.
Ken





-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Hamm <Patlar@hughes.net>
Sent: Sunday, 22 November 2009 3:20 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Inner CV Tool

Great advice, Ken. I would offer just one additional point for your
consideration:
toss the 6 point (Allen head) bolts, and use the 12 point (triple
square). Sorry, I forget the precise nomenclature for that bolt, but the
sockets don't wallow out like the six point ones tend to do. Add a nice
Hazet bit, and you're set!

Larry Hamm
USA

Ken Garratt wrote:
> Phill and ALL,
> Yes it seems to be a dilemma for many syncronauts pleading "why me?" when it comes to unexpected loose, lost and/or damage done as a consequence of miscreant CV bolts.
> The reliable solution as described to me by someone whose experience I respect is essentially as follows ...
> 1. Anally, ALL affected mating surfaces, bolts, plates, washers MUST first be scrupulously inspected and cleaned before rebuild. If it's all not "eat your dinner off it" equivalent, then the prep surfaces are still unacceptable!
> 2. ONLY use/re-use genuine AND undamaged CV bolts. Despite what may be said officially, experience dictates that used genuine bolts visually inspected and found to be undamaged/unstressed are quite satisfactory. So much so, he said anyone reluctant to re-use genuine used and undamaged CV bolts, please send them to him, thank you!
> 3. MUST install the special grip washers as were originally installed on the CV bolts. For peace of mind, replace with new. Alternately, closely eyeball used ones, only re-use ones which are still in good condition ... ones that look suspiciously like they have lost their "bite", then replace. I understand, some service people remove/lose/forget these washers.
> 4. As a bolt group, evenly and progressively in stages, tighten bolts to spec with a torque wrench. Finally, double check all torqued bolts.
> 5. Never use locktite or equivalent on CV bolts, do the work correctly instead for reliability and longevity.
> 6. Anyone using locktite on CV bolts are either ignorant, inexperienced or sloppy or all three.
> Cheers.
> Ken
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <plander@optusnet.com.au>
> Sent: Sunday, 22 November 2009 10:42 AM
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Inner CV Tool
>
>
> After years of working on rally cars, where everything that can come loose does, I have a fetish about locktite. Well I had an Audi A3 and I thought those M5 screws holding the number plate on look like they may rattle loose, so I used some heavy duty railway grade locktite. Anyhow while I was in Queensland, I decided to trade the A3 in on a TT and swap the plates over. Well to undo one of the philps head scews I pushed on a well fitting screwdriver while my assistant turned it with lock grips. After about 20 minutes the screw was removed. The other scew however refused to budge and was eventually removed by the Audi dealer.
>
> Now this has me worried when VW say to use D6 locking compound on the front axle spline after all of the dramas I have had removing it. What is D6? Should I use locktite or neversieze?
>
>


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links
What is wrong with inhex? Why change them?

What is wrong with locktite on CV bolts? Although it is not necessary.


> Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Gday Larry,
> All bar 2 of my CV bolts are hex. I do agree about the two x 12 pointers
> I have ... I do prefer them but other priorities dictate staying with
> the hex type for now. I tend to think forwarned is forearmed, once users
> get a grip on the issues, hex is ok. Perhaps a different story if work
> is farmed out.



> Maybe US had 12 pointers originally and we had std. hex .. not sure.

They all came from the same factory.
The hex is easier to strip out the sockets on if one isn't careful. I've
found many stripped, and have done a few myself. I've never had a 12
strip out.
Locktite is your choice, but properly assembled CV's shouldn't need
them, and make bolt removal more difficult, which is so fun on the outer
rears.
The US got both 6 and 12 point bolts, which did indeed come from the
same factory-the one that produced Syncros with PTO's for the Swedish
market!

Larry Hamm

plander@optusnet.com.au wrote:
> What is wrong with inhex? Why change them?
>
> What is wrong with locktite on CV bolts? Although it is not necessary.
>
>
>
>> Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Gday Larry,
>> All bar 2 of my CV bolts are hex. I do agree about the two x 12 pointers
>> I have ... I do prefer them but other priorities dictate staying with
>> the hex type for now. I tend to think forwarned is forearmed, once users
>> get a grip on the issues, hex is ok. Perhaps a different story if work
>> is farmed out.
>>
>
>
>
>
>> Maybe US had 12 pointers originally and we had std. hex .. not sure.
>>
>
> They all came from the same factory.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.76/2518 - Release Date: 11/21/09 19:41:00
>
>
Allen head bolts (N 014 751 3) are for the front CVs and the 12 point spline bolts (893 407 237) are for the rear CVs.
The front CV bolts are longer so they are not interchangeable..
Maybe Volkswagen used different heads to avoid people using the wrong bolts????



> toss the 6 point (Allen head) bolts, and use the 12 point (triple
> square). Sorry, I forget the precise nomenclature for that bolt, but the
>
> sockets don't wallow out like the six point ones tend to do. Add a nice
> Hazet bit, and you're set!
>
> Larry Hamm
> USA
>
> Ken Garratt wrote:
> > Phill and ALL,
> > Yes it seems to be a dilemma for many syncronauts pleading "why me?"
> when it comes to unexpected loose, lost and/or damage done as a
> consequence of miscreant CV bolts.
> > The reliable solution as described to me by someone whose experience I
> respect is essentially as follows ...
> > 1. Anally, ALL affected mating surfaces, bolts, plates, washers MUST
> first be scrupulously inspected and cleaned before rebuild. If it's all
> not "eat your dinner off it" equivalent, then the prep surfaces are
> still unacceptable!
> > 2. ONLY use/re-use genuine AND undamaged CV bolts. Despite what may be
> said officially, experience dictates that used genuine bolts visually
> inspected and found to be undamaged/unstressed are quite satisfactory.
> So much so, he said anyone reluctant to re-use genuine used and
> undamaged CV bolts, please send them to him, thank you!
> > 3. MUST install the special grip washers as were originally installed
> on the CV bolts. For peace of mind, replace with new. Alternately,
> closely eyeball used ones, only re-use ones which are still in good
> condition ... ones that look suspiciously like they have lost their
> "bite", then replace. I understand, some service people
> remove/lose/forget these washers.
> > 4. As a bolt group, evenly and progressively in stages, tighten bolts
> to spec with a torque wrench. Finally, double check all torqued bolts.
> > 5. Never use locktite or equivalent on CV bolts, do the work correctly
> instead for reliability and longevity.
> > 6. Anyone using locktite on CV bolts are either ignorant,
> inexperienced or sloppy or all three.
> > Cheers.
> > Ken
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: <plander@optusnet.com.au>
> > Sent: Sunday, 22 November 2009 10:42 AM
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Inner CV Tool
> >
> >
> > After years of working on rally cars, where everything that can come
> loose does, I have a fetish about locktite. Well I had an Audi A3 and I
> thought those M5 screws holding the number plate on look like they may
> rattle loose, so I used some heavy duty railway grade locktite. Anyhow
> while I was in Queensland, I decided to trade the A3 in on a TT and swap
> the plates over. Well to undo one of the philps head scews I pushed on a
> well fitting screwdriver while my assistant turned it with lock grips.
> After about 20 minutes the screw was removed. The other scew however
> refused to budge and was eventually removed by the Audi dealer.
> >
> > Now this has me worried when VW say to use D6 locking compound on the
> front axle spline after all of the dramas I have had removing it. What
> is D6? Should I use locktite or neversieze?
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Phill,
Have you tried both types?

So which type was ex factory?

Does Bentley procedure include loctite on CV bolts?

Ken




-----Original Message-----
From: <plander@optusnet.com.au>
Sent: Sunday, 22 November 2009 5:20 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Inner CV Tool



What is wrong with inhex? Why change them?

What is wrong with locktite on CV bolts? Although it is not necessary.

> Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Gday Larry,
> All bar 2 of my CV bolts are hex. I do agree about the two x 12 pointers
> I have ... I do prefer them but other priorities dictate staying with
> the hex type for now. I tend to think forwarned is forearmed, once users
> get a grip on the issues, hex is ok. Perhaps a different story if work
> is farmed out.

> Maybe US had 12 pointers originally and we had std. hex .. not sure.

They all came from the same factory.
I agree with Les 100%. Splines are designed to locate and in some instances slide.I would never put a locking compound on splines.I would though, put a anti-sieze compound on splines etc.Anti-sieze is something that I use every time I do work on the bus.I use it on everything from cv torx bolts,suspension components,wheel nuts,even rear brake drum hub.Maybe, if Anti-sieze is used on cv splines,getting them out of the hub would not be an issue.If you tighten things up properly,and in the correct sequence,bolts will not 'rattle loose'.I have never,in my experience,with Syncros,drag cars and standard passenger vehicles ever had a issue with things coming loose.I have though had heaps of trouble with things corroding on.My advice anti-seize everything.

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Les Harris" <leslieharris@...> wrote:
>
> Phill,
>
> We mentioned this briefly at the DOTVW and I would be interested to hear the
> opinion of people like Alf and Greg Esposito, both of whom are mechanics.
>
> A spline is a device designed to transmit heavy loads circumferentially -
> i.e., at 90 degrees to the axis of a shaft. Applying locking compound to a
> spline in no way adds to the ability of the shaft to transmit a load. A
> retaining nut on the same splined shaft is a different matter; locking
> compound prevents the nut from loosening.
>
> I can't see any benefit in applying locking compound to the splines and
> would not do it myself.
>
> Les
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> plander@...
> Sent: 22 November 2009 10:42
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Inner CV Tool
>
>
>
>
>
> After years of working on rally cars, where everything that can come loose
> does, I have a fetish about locktite. Well I had an Audi A3 and I thought
> those M5 screws holding the number plate on look like they may rattle loose,
> so I used some heavy duty railway grade locktite. Anyhow while I was in
> Queensland, I decided to trade the A3 in on a TT and swap the plates over.
> Well to undo one of the philps head scews I pushed on a well fitting
> screwdriver while my assistant turned it with lock grips. After about 20
> minutes the screw was removed. The other scew however refused to budge and
> was eventually removed by the Audi dealer.
>
> Now this has me worried when VW say to use D6 locking compound on the front
> axle spline after all of the dramas I have had removing it. What is D6?
> Should I use locktite or neversieze?
>
> Phill
>
> > Les Harris <leslieharris@ <mailto:leslieharris%40optusnet.com.au>
> optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> >
> > This reminds me that Greg missed telling the group one of the aspects of
> > his
> > CV joint failure on his way back from Cairns - it involved someone using
> > silicone sealant on the joint!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > Greg, please fill us in on this.
> >
> > Les
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: Syncro_T3_Australia <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hdvwoc
> > Sent: 22 November 2009 10:00
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Inner CV Tool
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I've just found that Supercheap Auto (not a place that I normally shop
> > at) has 600mm 1/2" drive socket extension bars. This is great for
> > reaching the inner CV bolts. This makes it much easier to use a tension
> > wrench instead of trying to find space under the car.
> >
> > It appears to be a common problem the CV bolts coming loose. I have have
> > spoken to a few VW mechanics who say that it never happens to correctly
> > tensioned bolts so I think there may be a problem with dipsticks trying
> > to use allen keys instead of proper tools.
>
Do not use locking compond on splines,Instead use a Anti-sieze grease.Maybe this is what D6 is??I use a goldy colored metallic grease on every thing that I dont want to seize up.I will look into what it is actually called tommorrow.I will report back.

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
>
> Maybe it is to take up any slack and stop any movement? Any movement would cause wear.
>
> Maybe we need to look outside the square and D6 may also be a sealant to stop water ingress or corrosion on the spline?
>
> We really need to know what D6 is.
>
> Les, don't you have some engineering mates that would have an opinion?
>
>
>
> > Les Harris <leslieharris@...> wrote:
> >
> > Phill,
> >
> > We mentioned this briefly at the DOTVW and I would be interested to hear
> > the
> > opinion of people like Alf and Greg Esposito, both of whom are
> > mechanics.
> >
> > A spline is a device designed to transmit heavy loads circumferentially
> > -
> > i.e., at 90 degrees to the axis of a shaft. Applying locking compound
> > to a
> > spline in no way adds to the ability of the shaft to transmit a load. A
> > retaining nut on the same splined shaft is a different matter; locking
> > compound prevents the nut from loosening.
> >
> > I can't see any benefit in applying locking compound to the splines and
> > would not do it myself.
> >
> > Les
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > plander@...
> > Sent: 22 November 2009 10:42
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Inner CV Tool
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > After years of working on rally cars, where everything that can come
> > loose
> > does, I have a fetish about locktite. Well I had an Audi A3 and I
> > thought
> > those M5 screws holding the number plate on look like they may rattle
> > loose,
> > so I used some heavy duty railway grade locktite. Anyhow while I was in
> > Queensland, I decided to trade the A3 in on a TT and swap the plates
> > over.
> > Well to undo one of the philps head scews I pushed on a well fitting
> > screwdriver while my assistant turned it with lock grips. After about 20
> > minutes the screw was removed. The other scew however refused to budge
> > and
> > was eventually removed by the Audi dealer.
> >
> > Now this has me worried when VW say to use D6 locking compound on the
> > front
> > axle spline after all of the dramas I have had removing it. What is D6?
> > Should I use locktite or neversieze?
> >
> > Phill
> >
> > > Les Harris <leslieharris@ <mailto:leslieharris%40optusnet.com.au>
> > optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> > >
> > > This reminds me that Greg missed telling the group one of the aspects
> > of
> > > his
> > > CV joint failure on his way back from Cairns - it involved someone
> > using
> > > silicone sealant on the joint!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > >
> > > Greg, please fill us in on this.
> > >
> > > Les
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: Syncro_T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
> > <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hdvwoc
> > > Sent: 22 November 2009 10:00
> > > To: Syncro_T3_Australia <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> > @yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Inner CV Tool
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I've just found that Supercheap Auto (not a place that I normally shop
> > > at) has 600mm 1/2" drive socket extension bars. This is great for
> > > reaching the inner CV bolts. This makes it much easier to use a
> > tension
> > > wrench instead of trying to find space under the car.
> > >
> > > It appears to be a common problem the CV bolts coming loose. I have
> > have
> > > spoken to a few VW mechanics who say that it never happens to
> > correctly
> > > tensioned bolts so I think there may be a problem with dipsticks
> > trying
> > > to use allen keys instead of proper tools.
>
Have you guys ever pulled the front cvs out?I think youll find D6 isnt a locking adjent but a anti-seize compound,designed to keep water out.I will find out.

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, greg esposito <gregespo73@...> wrote:
>
> Phil/Les,
> If vw say to use locktite on a spline it is because they fear the small amount of play, that has to be there, will eventually with clockwise and anti clockwise forces on it, flog out the splines. The option to this would have been to machine the surfaces with an interference fit (i.e. the hole is smaller than the shaft) making Assembly and disassembly on the car impossible. Would I use loctite there? If I was fitting a new good quality shaft that I would not have to remove any time soon for any reason (i.e.wheel bearing) and doing of road work, YES. With the not so hard off roading we will be doing and the repairs being a work in progress I wont be locking mine just yet. Greg
> Â
> P.S. never use silicone on the mating surfaces of cv joints, this prevent the surfaces from locking together and the flex causes the bolts to come loose.
>
> --- On Sat, 21/11/09, Les Harris <leslieharris@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Les Harris <leslieharris@...>
> Subject: RE: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Inner CV Tool
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Received: Saturday, 21 November, 2009, 4:28 PM
>
>
> Â
>
>
>
>
>
> Phill,
> We mentioned this briefly at the DOTVW and I would be interested to hear the opinion of people like Alf and Greg Esposito, both of whom are mechanics.
> A spline is a device designed to transmit heavy loads circumferentially â€" i.e., at 90 degrees to the axis of a shaft. Applying locking compound to a spline in no way adds to the ability of the shaft to transmit a load. A retaining nut on the same splined shaft is a different matter; locking compound prevents the nut from loosening.
> I can’t see any benefit in applying locking compound to the splines and would not do it myself.
> Les
> Â
>
>
>
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of plander@optusnet. com.au
> Sent: 22 November 2009 10:42
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Inner CV Tool
> Â
> Â
>
>
>
> After years of working on rally cars, where everything that can come loose does, I have a fetish about locktite. Well I had an Audi A3 and I thought those M5 screws holding the number plate on look like they may rattle loose, so I used some heavy duty railway grade locktite. Anyhow while I was in Queensland , I decided to trade the A3 in on a TT and swap the plates over. Well to undo one of the philps head scews I pushed on a well fitting screwdriver while my assistant turned it with lock grips. After about 20 minutes the screw was removed. The other scew however refused to budge and was eventually removed by the Audi dealer.
>
> Now this has me worried when VW say to use D6 locking compound on the front axle spline after all of the dramas I have had removing it. What is D6? Should I use locktite or neversieze?
>
> Phill
>
> > Les Harris <leslieharris@ optusnet. com.au> wrote:
> >
> > This reminds me that Greg missed telling the group one of the aspects of
> > his
> > CV joint failure on his way back from Cairns - it involved someone using
> > silicone sealant on the joint!!!!!!! !!!!!!!
> >
> > Greg, please fill us in on this.
> >
> > Les
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of hdvwoc
> > Sent: 22 November 2009 10:00
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Inner CV Tool
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I've just found that Supercheap Auto (not a place that I normally shop
> > at) has 600mm 1/2" drive socket extension bars. This is great for
> > reaching the inner CV bolts. This makes it much easier to use a tension
> > wrench instead of trying to find space under the car.
> >
> > It appears to be a common problem the CV bolts coming loose. I have have
> > spoken to a few VW mechanics who say that it never happens to correctly
> > tensioned bolts so I think there may be a problem with dipsticks trying
> > to use allen keys instead of proper tools.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________________________
> Win 1 of 4 Sony home entertainment packs thanks to Yahoo!7.
> Enter now: http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/
>
Ken has decribed the proper way to install cvs/bolts.All his points are valid , but take particular care with point #4.Tightening bolts in a criss cross fashion,progressivly,lightly,then torque them up,they wont just shake loose.

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Garratt " <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
> Phill and ALL,
> Yes it seems to be a dilemma for many syncronauts pleading "why me?" when it comes to unexpected loose, lost and/or damage done as a consequence of miscreant CV bolts.
> The reliable solution as described to me by someone whose experience I respect is essentially as follows ...
> 1. Anally, ALL affected mating surfaces, bolts, plates, washers MUST first be scrupulously inspected and cleaned before rebuild. If it's all not "eat your dinner off it" equivalent, then the prep surfaces are still unacceptable!
> 2. ONLY use/re-use genuine AND undamaged CV bolts. Despite what may be said officially, experience dictates that used genuine bolts visually inspected and found to be undamaged/unstressed are quite satisfactory. So much so, he said anyone reluctant to re-use genuine used and undamaged CV bolts, please send them to him, thank you!
> 3. MUST install the special grip washers as were originally installed on the CV bolts. For peace of mind, replace with new. Alternately, closely eyeball used ones, only re-use ones which are still in good condition ... ones that look suspiciously like they have lost their "bite", then replace. I understand, some service people remove/lose/forget these washers.
> 4. As a bolt group, evenly and progressively in stages, tighten bolts to spec with a torque wrench. Finally, double check all torqued bolts.
> 5. Never use locktite or equivalent on CV bolts, do the work correctly instead for reliability and longevity.
> 6. Anyone using locktite on CV bolts are either ignorant, inexperienced or sloppy or all three.
> Cheers.
> Ken
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <plander@...>
> Sent: Sunday, 22 November 2009 10:42 AM
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Inner CV Tool
>
>
> After years of working on rally cars, where everything that can come loose does, I have a fetish about locktite. Well I had an Audi A3 and I thought those M5 screws holding the number plate on look like they may rattle loose, so I used some heavy duty railway grade locktite. Anyhow while I was in Queensland, I decided to trade the A3 in on a TT and swap the plates over. Well to undo one of the philps head scews I pushed on a well fitting screwdriver while my assistant turned it with lock grips. After about 20 minutes the screw was removed. The other scew however refused to budge and was eventually removed by the Audi dealer.
>
> Now this has me worried when VW say to use D6 locking compound on the front axle spline after all of the dramas I have had removing it. What is D6? Should I use locktite or neversieze?
>
> Phill
>
> > Les Harris <leslieharris@...> wrote:
> >
> > This reminds me that Greg missed telling the group one of the aspects of
> > his
> > CV joint failure on his way back from Cairns - it involved someone using
> > silicone sealant on the joint!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > Greg, please fill us in on this.
> >
> > Les
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hdvwoc
> > Sent: 22 November 2009 10:00
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Inner CV Tool
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I've just found that Supercheap Auto (not a place that I normally shop
> > at) has 600mm 1/2" drive socket extension bars. This is great for
> > reaching the inner CV bolts. This makes it much easier to use a tension
> > wrench instead of trying to find space under the car.
> >
> > It appears to be a common problem the CV bolts coming loose. I have have
> > spoken to a few VW mechanics who say that it never happens to correctly
> > tensioned bolts so I think there may be a problem with dipsticks trying
> > to use allen keys instead of proper tools.
>
12 point torx bolts are also the only way to go.If you dont have them,next time your cvs are out ,replace them with these,with anti seize on them of course

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Larry Hamm <Patlar@...> wrote:
>
> Great advice, Ken. I would offer just one additional point for your
> consideration:
> toss the 6 point (Allen head) bolts, and use the 12 point (triple
> square). Sorry, I forget the precise nomenclature for that bolt, but the
> sockets don't wallow out like the six point ones tend to do. Add a nice
> Hazet bit, and you're set!
>
> Larry Hamm
> USA
>
> Ken Garratt wrote:
> > Phill and ALL,
> > Yes it seems to be a dilemma for many syncronauts pleading "why me?" when it comes to unexpected loose, lost and/or damage done as a consequence of miscreant CV bolts.
> > The reliable solution as described to me by someone whose experience I respect is essentially as follows ...
> > 1. Anally, ALL affected mating surfaces, bolts, plates, washers MUST first be scrupulously inspected and cleaned before rebuild. If it's all not "eat your dinner off it" equivalent, then the prep surfaces are still unacceptable!
> > 2. ONLY use/re-use genuine AND undamaged CV bolts. Despite what may be said officially, experience dictates that used genuine bolts visually inspected and found to be undamaged/unstressed are quite satisfactory. So much so, he said anyone reluctant to re-use genuine used and undamaged CV bolts, please send them to him, thank you!
> > 3. MUST install the special grip washers as were originally installed on the CV bolts. For peace of mind, replace with new. Alternately, closely eyeball used ones, only re-use ones which are still in good condition ... ones that look suspiciously like they have lost their "bite", then replace. I understand, some service people remove/lose/forget these washers.
> > 4. As a bolt group, evenly and progressively in stages, tighten bolts to spec with a torque wrench. Finally, double check all torqued bolts.
> > 5. Never use locktite or equivalent on CV bolts, do the work correctly instead for reliability and longevity.
> > 6. Anyone using locktite on CV bolts are either ignorant, inexperienced or sloppy or all three.
> > Cheers.
> > Ken
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: <plander@...>
> > Sent: Sunday, 22 November 2009 10:42 AM
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Inner CV Tool
> >
> >
> > After years of working on rally cars, where everything that can come loose does, I have a fetish about locktite. Well I had an Audi A3 and I thought those M5 screws holding the number plate on look like they may rattle loose, so I used some heavy duty railway grade locktite. Anyhow while I was in Queensland, I decided to trade the A3 in on a TT and swap the plates over. Well to undo one of the philps head scews I pushed on a well fitting screwdriver while my assistant turned it with lock grips. After about 20 minutes the screw was removed. The other scew however refused to budge and was eventually removed by the Audi dealer.
> >
> > Now this has me worried when VW say to use D6 locking compound on the front axle spline after all of the dramas I have had removing it. What is D6? Should I use locktite or neversieze?
> >
> >
>
Ben,

The 12 points are shorter.

VW use inhex for front, 12 point for rear.



> bencroft96 <bencroft96@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> 12 point torx bolts are also the only way to go.If you dont have
> them,next time your cvs are out ,replace them with these,with anti seize
> on them of course
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Larry Hamm <Patlar@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Great advice, Ken. I would offer just one additional point for your
> > consideration:
> > toss the 6 point (Allen head) bolts, and use the 12 point (triple
> > square). Sorry, I forget the precise nomenclature for that bolt, but
> the
> > sockets don't wallow out like the six point ones tend to do. Add a
> nice
> > Hazet bit, and you're set!
> >
> > Larry Hamm
> > USA
> >
> > Ken Garratt wrote:
> > > Phill and ALL,
> > > Yes it seems to be a dilemma for many syncronauts pleading "why me?"
> when it comes to unexpected loose, lost and/or damage done as a
> consequence of miscreant CV bolts.
> > > The reliable solution as described to me by someone whose experience
> I respect is essentially as follows ...
> > > 1. Anally, ALL affected mating surfaces, bolts, plates, washers MUST
> first be scrupulously inspected and cleaned before rebuild. If it's all
> not "eat your dinner off it" equivalent, then the prep surfaces are
> still unacceptable!
> > > 2. ONLY use/re-use genuine AND undamaged CV bolts. Despite what may
> be said officially, experience dictates that used genuine bolts visually
> inspected and found to be undamaged/unstressed are quite satisfactory.
> So much so, he said anyone reluctant to re-use genuine used and
> undamaged CV bolts, please send them to him, thank you!
> > > 3. MUST install the special grip washers as were originally
> installed on the CV bolts. For peace of mind, replace with new.
> Alternately, closely eyeball used ones, only re-use ones which are still
> in good condition ... ones that look suspiciously like they have lost
> their "bite", then replace. I understand, some service people
> remove/lose/forget these washers.
> > > 4. As a bolt group, evenly and progressively in stages, tighten
> bolts to spec with a torque wrench. Finally, double check all torqued
> bolts.
> > > 5. Never use locktite or equivalent on CV bolts, do the work
> correctly instead for reliability and longevity.
> > > 6. Anyone using locktite on CV bolts are either ignorant,
> inexperienced or sloppy or all three.
> > > Cheers.
> > > Ken
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: <plander@...>
> > > Sent: Sunday, 22 November 2009 10:42 AM
> > > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Inner CV Tool
> > >
> > >
> > > After years of working on rally cars, where everything that can come
> loose does, I have a fetish about locktite. Well I had an Audi A3 and I
> thought those M5 screws holding the number plate on look like they may
> rattle loose, so I used some heavy duty railway grade locktite. Anyhow
> while I was in Queensland, I decided to trade the A3 in on a TT and swap
> the plates over. Well to undo one of the philps head scews I pushed on a
> well fitting screwdriver while my assistant turned it with lock grips.
> After about 20 minutes the screw was removed. The other scew however
> refused to budge and was eventually removed by the Audi dealer.
> > >
> > > Now this has me worried when VW say to use D6 locking compound on
> the front axle spline after all of the dramas I have had removing it.
> What is D6? Should I use locktite or neversieze?
> > >
> > >
> >