Hi Ken,
I have done this job a few years ago.
I removed everything including the engine support bar, probably not necessary however it gave me easy access to do the work.
I also checked out the oil pump cover as I didn't know where the oil leak was coming from.
I used a water pipe - just happen to be the right size - to drive in the 2 lipped oil seal.
On another note I hope everything turns out alright for Les.
Cheers,
Theo
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 15 March 2016 12:19 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Make a working space .. R&R drive pulley & seals [2 Attachments]
Hi all,
I'm contemplating working on the above topic for this area of the WBX 2.1 MV motor that I've had no past DIY experience.
At this stage, primary concern and suspect is a slow engine oil leak from the radial shaft seals behind the drive pulley. Leaked engine oil is showing immediately below the drive pulley, collecting in the topside recesses of the engine case bracket that's above the engine supports. Fan belt and various pipes/surfaces also get oily plus the alternator fan collects and sprays a coating of oil directly up and onto the underside of the engine bay lid. Oil gradually gravitates also to under the motor and slide rails. Been happening for years now and a nuisance, so would like the issue done and dusted.
Suggested option so far is that the R&R drive pulley & seals procedure can be done while leaving the engine in place, provided sufficient working space is first created rearward of the 3 groove v-belt pulley. Apparently that amount of space is achieved by removal of the rear tinware panel. Then the R&R work sequence can be done from above in the engine bay. Any procedure issues with this so far?
Moving on, so to remove the rear tinware downwards, I see at least the muffler, its brackets and catalytic converter first need to be cleared out.
Next, the thing I'm posting about in particular ... the question is, will the tinware release ok without ALSO needing to remove the exhaust pipe that is adjacent to and running parallel with the moustache engine support bar? I'm hoping not, perhaps someone knows for sure.
Ideally for me, I'm thinking next .. just removing all rear and side tinware fasteners PLUS the three only front tinware fasteners adjacent to the moustache engine support bar will be enough to permit rotating the forward part of the tinware up and out from behind the exhaust pipe, at the same time drop the rear tinware portion. In effect, partly rotate and then drop the tinware out. See attached pics of area in question.
Any comments/suggestions/alternatives/options as to this procedure would be very much appreciated. TIA.
Cheers.
Ken
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 10:02:59 +0800
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Make a working space .. R&R drive pulley & seals
Hi Ken,
I have done this job a few years ago.
I removed everything including the engine support bar, probably not necessary however it gave me easy access to do the work.
I also checked out the oil pump cover as I didn't know where the oil leak was coming from.
I used a water pipe - just happen to be the right size - to drive in the 2 lipped oil seal.
On another note I hope everything turns out alright for Les.
Cheers,
Theo
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 15 March 2016 12:19 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Make a working space .. R&R drive pulley & seals [2 Attachments]
Hi all,
I'm contemplating working on the above topic for this area of the WBX 2.1 MV motor that I've had no past DIY experience.
At this stage, primary concern and suspect is a slow engine oil leak from the radial shaft seals behind the drive pulley. Leaked engine oil is showing immediately below the drive pulley, collecting in the topside recesses of the engine case bracket that's above the engine supports. Fan belt and various pipes/surfaces also get oily plus the alternator fan collects and sprays a coating of oil directly up and onto the underside of the engine bay lid. Oil gradually gravitates also to under the motor and slide rails. Been happening for years now and a nuisance, so would like the issue done and dusted.
Suggested option so far is that the R&R drive pulley & seals procedure can be done while leaving the engine in place, provided sufficient working space is first created rearward of the 3 groove v-belt pulley. Apparently that amount of space is achieved by removal of the rear tinware panel. Then the R&R work sequence can be done from above in the engine bay. Any procedure issues with this so far?
Moving on, so to remove the rear tinware downwards, I see at least the muffler, its brackets and catalytic converter first need to be cleared out.
Next, the thing I'm posting about in particular ... the question is, will the tinware release ok without ALSO needing to remove the exhaust pipe that is adjacent to and running parallel with the moustache engine support bar? I'm hoping not, perhaps someone knows for sure.
Ideally for me, I'm thinking next .. just removing all rear and side tinware fasteners PLUS the three only front tinware fasteners adjacent to the moustache engine support bar will be enough to permit rotating the forward part of the tinware up and out from behind the exhaust pipe, at the same time drop the rear tinware portion. In effect, partly rotate and then drop the tinware out. See attached pics of area in question.
Any comments/suggestions/alternatives/options as to this procedure would be very much appreciated. TIA.
Cheers.
Ken
Hi Theo,Thanks for that.I'm interested please, in the end at the time, did you manage to confirm which one was in fact the leaker or did you choose instead to go ahead anyway and replace seals to radial shaft AND oil pump? Did you replace the pump too while you had the chance?
I agree, my next most likely suspect would be the oil pump ... worst comes to the worst ... chances I'll find BOTH are leaking??!!
It's all unchartered waters for me, I'm somewhat hesitant at this stage to remove everything as you did if it's only the radial shaft seals ... otherwise sort of opening up a can of worms.
Anyone else please can confirm or otherwise advise re my query about method of removal of the tinware around the insitu exhaust pipe, be very helpful. TIA.Cheers.Ken
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 10:02:59 +0800
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Make a working space .. R&R drive pulley & seals
Hi Ken,
I have done this job a few years ago.
I removed everything including the engine support bar, probably not necessary however it gave me easy access to do the work.
I also checked out the oil pump cover as I didn't know where the oil leak was coming from.
I used a water pipe - just happen to be the right size - to drive in the 2 lipped oil seal.
On another note I hope everything turns out alright for Les.
Cheers,
Theo
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 15 March 2016 12:19 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Make a working space .. R&R drive pulley & seals [2 Attachments]
Hi all,
I'm contemplating working on the above topic for this area of the WBX 2.1 MV motor that I've had no past DIY experience.
At this stage, primary concern and suspect is a slow engine oil leak from the radial shaft seals behind the drive pulley. Leaked engine oil is showing immediately below the drive pulley, collecting in the topside recesses of the engine case bracket that's above the engine supports. Fan belt and various pipes/surfaces also get oily plus the alternator fan collects and sprays a coating of oil directly up and onto the underside of the engine bay lid. Oil gradually gravitates also to under the motor and slide rails. Been happening for years now and a nuisance, so would like the issue done and dusted.
Suggested option so far is that the R&R drive pulley & seals procedure can be done while leaving the engine in place, provided sufficient working space is first created rearward of the 3 groove v-belt pulley. Apparently that amount of space is achieved by removal of the rear tinware panel. Then the R&R work sequence can be done from above in the engine bay. Any procedure issues with this so far?
Moving on, so to remove the rear tinware downwards, I see at least the muffler, its brackets and catalytic converter first need to be cleared out.
Next, the thing I'm posting about in particular ... the question is, will the tinware release ok without ALSO needing to remove the exhaust pipe that is adjacent to and running parallel with the moustache engine support bar? I'm hoping not, perhaps someone knows for sure.
Ideally for me, I'm thinking next .. just removing all rear and side tinware fasteners PLUS the three only front tinware fasteners adjacent to the moustache engine support bar will be enough to permit rotating the forward part of the tinware up and out from behind the exhaust pipe, at the same time drop the rear tinware portion. In effect, partly rotate and then drop the tinware out. See attached pics of area in question.
Any comments/suggestions/alternatives/options as to this procedure would be very much appreciated. TIA.
Cheers.
Ken
The muffler heat shield I call it.
undo the bolts on the outher ends of the 'cross bar' aka mustache bar ...
support the engine with a floor jack first of course.
Lower the rear of the engine pretty far ..
brilliantly VW disigned the front trans mount and shift linkage to accommodate this.
I'm sure I get that bar down about 10 inches pretty easily.
check all hoses and wires, that you are not pulling on them.
you may want to remove air box and Air Intake Boot.
you may want to loosen throttle cable at the engine.
the muffler heat shield is held to the cross bar by 4 bolts ...sizes are 15 and 17mm.
I always install those bolts so just removing the nuts will free the muffler heat shield.
there really is no other way to get it out that I have found.
like when installing an engine ...it must go on the engine before putting the engine in the van.
Once that is out of the way ..you can deal with exhaust parts as needed.
oil leaks in that area ..
oil Cooler seal ~ !
oil cooler.
front main seal on the crankshaft. A 'real' 2.1 waterboxer has a crank pulley and seal unique to the Syncro I'm pretty sure. They are not prone to leak.
neither are oil pumps..though if enough stuff is out of the way, the oil pump cover plate is easy to get to. That cover needs a super thin paper gasket, as too thick a gasket there would affect what oil pressure the pump can produce.
it's all easy once you get used to it.
doing it the first time ...
or for someone that doesn't work on cars 'a lot' ..it might be a little challenging.
but ..it does 'just come apart.'
Generally....I deal with rust and stuck parts on exhaust components quite a lot in this area of the engine. like if you have to undo any exhaust fasteners ..
start spraying them with penetrating oil immediately ..and then repeatedly.
Actually ..don't touch any fasteners without spraying them with penetrating oil first.
and don't put any back together bare metal-to-metal. I use a lot of anti-sieze compound on exhaust nuts and bolts.
good luck !
scott
Hi Theo,Thanks for that.I'm interested please, in the end at the time, did you manage to confirm which one was in fact the leaker or did you choose instead to go ahead anyway and replace seals to radial shaft AND oil pump? Did you replace the pump too while you had the chance?
I agree, my next most likely suspect would be the oil pump ... worst comes to the worst ... chances I'll find BOTH are leaking??!!
It's all unchartered waters for me, I'm somewhat hesitant at this stage to remove everything as you did if it's only the radial shaft seals ... otherwise sort of opening up a can of worms.
Anyone else please can confirm or otherwise advise re my query about method of removal of the tinware around the insitu exhaust pipe, be very helpful. TIA.Cheers.Ken
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 10:02:59 +0800
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Make a working space .. R&R drive pulley & seals
Hi Ken,
I have done this job a few years ago.
I removed everything including the engine support bar, probably not necessary however it gave me easy access to do the work.
I also checked out the oil pump cover as I didn't know where the oil leak was coming from.
I used a water pipe - just happen to be the right size - to drive in the 2 lipped oil seal.
On another note I hope everything turns out alright for Les.
Cheers,
Theo
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 15 March 2016 12:19 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Make a working space .. R&R drive pulley & seals [2 Attachments]
Hi all,
I'm contemplating working on the above topic for this area of the WBX 2.1 MV motor that I've had no past DIY experience.
At this stage, primary concern and suspect is a slow engine oil leak from the radial shaft seals behind the drive pulley. Leaked engine oil is showing immediately below the drive pulley, collecting in the topside recesses of the engine case bracket that's above the engine supports. Fan belt and various pipes/surfaces also get oily plus the alternator fan collects and sprays a coating of oil directly up and onto the underside of the engine bay lid. Oil gradually gravitates also to under the motor and slide rails. Been happening for years now and a nuisance, so would like the issue done and dusted.
Suggested option so far is that the R&R drive pulley & seals procedure can be done while leaving the engine in place, provided sufficient working space is first created rearward of the 3 groove v-belt pulley. Apparently that amount of space is achieved by removal of the rear tinware panel. Then the R&R work sequence can be done from above in the engine bay. Any procedure issues with this so far?
Moving on, so to remove the rear tinware downwards, I see at least the muffler, its brackets and catalytic converter first need to be cleared out.
Next, the thing I'm posting about in particular ... the question is, will the tinware release ok without ALSO needing to remove the exhaust pipe that is adjacent to and running parallel with the moustache engine support bar? I'm hoping not, perhaps someone knows for sure.
Ideally for me, I'm thinking next .. just removing all rear and side tinware fasteners PLUS the three only front tinware fasteners adjacent to the moustache engine support bar will be enough to permit rotating the forward part of the tinware up and out from behind the exhaust pipe, at the same time drop the rear tinware portion. In effect, partly rotate and then drop the tinware out. See attached pics of area in question.
Any comments/suggestions/alternatives/options as to this procedure would be very much appreciated. TIA.
Cheers.
Ken
Hi Ken,
Hartmut & Scott did answer some of your concerns.
I put some blocks under the wheels to give me more space, and a bottle jack and a block of wood to support the engine.
The night before I sprayed all the fasteners with penetrine, plus I had some spare bolts & nuts.
I could not identify the oil leak so I replaced the paper gasket as well.
No more oil leaks, but that was years ago.
I don't know how to get the large socket & bar in to place to remove the 3 groove V-belt pulley nut without removing the tin wear.
Cheers,
Theo
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, 17 March 2016 10:20 AM
To: Syncro Australia Forum
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Make a working space .. R&R drive pulley & seals
Hi Theo,
Thanks for that.
I'm interested please, in the end at the time, did you manage to confirm which one was in fact the leaker or did you choose instead to go ahead anyway and replace seals to radial shaft AND oil pump? Did you replace the pump too while you had the chance?
I agree, my next most likely suspect would be the oil pump ... worst comes to the worst ... chances I'll find BOTH are leaking??!!
It's all unchartered waters for me, I'm somewhat hesitant at this stage to remove everything as you did if it's only the radial shaft seals ... otherwise sort of opening up a can of worms.
Anyone else please can confirm or otherwise advise re my query about method of removal of the tinware around the insitu exhaust pipe, be very helpful. TIA.
Cheers.
Ken
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 10:02:59 +0800
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Make a working space .. R&R drive pulley & seals
Hi Ken,
I have done this job a few years ago.
I removed everything including the engine support bar, probably not necessary however it gave me easy access to do the work.
I also checked out the oil pump cover as I didn't know where the oil leak was coming from.
I used a water pipe - just happen to be the right size - to drive in the 2 lipped oil seal.
On another note I hope everything turns out alright for Les.
Cheers,
Theo
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 15 March 2016 12:19 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Make a working space .. R&R drive pulley & seals [2 Attachments]
Hi all,
I'm contemplating working on the above topic for this area of the WBX 2.1 MV motor that I've had no past DIY experience.
At this stage, primary concern and suspect is a slow engine oil leak from the radial shaft seals behind the drive pulley. Leaked engine oil is showing immediately below the drive pulley, collecting in the topside recesses of the engine case bracket that's above the engine supports. Fan belt and various pipes/surfaces also get oily plus the alternator fan collects and sprays a coating of oil directly up and onto the underside of the engine bay lid. Oil gradually gravitates also to under the motor and slide rails. Been happening for years now and a nuisance, so would like the issue done and dusted.
Suggested option so far is that the R&R drive pulley & seals procedure can be done while leaving the engine in place, provided sufficient working space is first created rearward of the 3 groove v-belt pulley. Apparently that amount of space is achieved by removal of the rear tinware panel. Then the R&R work sequence can be done from above in the engine bay. Any procedure issues with this so far?
Moving on, so to remove the rear tinware downwards, I see at least the muffler, its brackets and catalytic converter first need to be cleared out.
Next, the thing I'm posting about in particular ... the question is, will the tinware release ok without ALSO needing to remove the exhaust pipe that is adjacent to and running parallel with the moustache engine support bar? I'm hoping not, perhaps someone knows for sure.
Ideally for me, I'm thinking next .. just removing all rear and side tinware fasteners PLUS the three only front tinware fasteners adjacent to the moustache engine support bar will be enough to permit rotating the forward part of the tinware up and out from behind the exhaust pipe, at the same time drop the rear tinware portion. In effect, partly rotate and then drop the tinware out. See attached pics of area in question.
Any comments/suggestions/alternatives/options as to this procedure would be very much appreciated. TIA.
Cheers.
Ken