Make a working space .. R&R drive pulley & seals

1
Hi all,
I'm contemplating working on the above topic for this area of the WBX 2.1 MV motor that I've had no past DIY experience.

At this stage, primary concern and suspect is a slow engine oil leak from the radial shaft seals behind the drive pulley. Leaked engine oil is showing immediately below the drive pulley, collecting in the topside recesses of the engine case bracket that's above the engine supports. Fan belt and various pipes/surfaces also get oily plus the alternator fan collects and sprays a coating of oil directly up and onto the underside of the engine bay lid. Oil gradually gravitates also to under the motor and slide rails. Been happening for years now and a nuisance, so would like the issue done and dusted.

Suggested option so far is that the R&R drive pulley & seals procedure can be done while leaving the engine in place, provided sufficient working space is first created rearward of the 3 groove v-belt pulley. Apparently that amount of space is achieved by removal of the rear tinware panel. Then the R&R work sequence can be done from above in the engine bay. Any procedure issues with this so far?

Moving on, so to remove the rear tinware downwards, I see at least the muffler, its brackets and catalytic converter first need to be cleared out.

Next, the thing I'm posting about in particular ... the question is, will the tinware release ok without ALSO needing to remove the exhaust pipe that is adjacent to and running parallel with the moustache engine support bar? I'm hoping not, perhaps someone knows for sure.

Ideally for me, I'm thinking next .. just removing all rear and side tinware fasteners PLUS the three only front tinware fasteners adjacent to the moustache engine support bar will be enough to permit rotating the forward part of the tinware up and out from behind the exhaust pipe, at the same time drop the rear tinware portion. In effect, partly rotate and then drop the tinware out. See attached pics of area in question.

Any comments/suggestions/alternatives/options as to this procedure would be very much appreciated. TIA.
Cheers.
Ken


2

Hi Ken,

 

I have done this job a few years ago.

I removed everything including the engine support bar, probably not necessary however it gave me easy access to do the work.

I also checked out the oil pump cover as I didn't know where the oil leak was coming from.

I used a water pipe - just happen to be the right size - to drive in the 2 lipped oil seal.

 

On another note I hope everything turns out alright for Les.

 

Cheers,

Theo

 

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 15 March 2016 12:19 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Make a working space .. R&R drive pulley & seals [2 Attachments]

 

 

Hi all,

I'm contemplating working on the above topic for this area of the WBX 2.1 MV motor that I've had no past DIY experience.

 

At this stage, primary concern and suspect is a slow engine oil leak from the radial shaft seals behind the drive pulley. Leaked engine oil is showing immediately below the drive pulley, collecting in the topside recesses of the engine case bracket that's above the engine supports. Fan belt and various pipes/surfaces also get oily plus the alternator fan collects and sprays a coating of oil directly up and onto the underside of the engine bay lid. Oil gradually gravitates also to under the motor and slide rails. Been happening for years now and a nuisance, so would like the issue done and dusted.

 

Suggested option so far is that the R&R drive pulley & seals procedure can be done while leaving the engine in place, provided sufficient working space is first created rearward of the 3 groove v-belt pulley. Apparently that amount of space is achieved by removal of the rear tinware panel. Then the R&R work sequence can be done from above in the engine bay. Any procedure issues with this so far?

 

Moving on, so to remove the rear tinware downwards, I see at least the muffler, its brackets and catalytic converter first need to be cleared out.

 

Next, the thing I'm posting about in particular ... the question is, will the tinware release ok without ALSO needing to remove the exhaust pipe that is adjacent to and running parallel with the moustache engine support bar? I'm hoping not, perhaps someone knows for sure.

 

Ideally for me, I'm thinking next .. just removing all rear and side tinware fasteners PLUS the three only front tinware fasteners adjacent to the moustache engine support bar will be enough to permit rotating the forward part of the tinware up and out from behind the exhaust pipe, at the same time drop the rear tinware portion. In effect, partly rotate and then drop the tinware out. See attached pics of area in question.

 

Any comments/suggestions/alternatives/options as to this procedure would be very much appreciated. TIA.

Cheers.

Ken

 

 

3
Hi Theo,
Thanks for that.
I'm interested please, in the end at the time, did you manage to confirm which one was in fact the leaker or did you choose instead to go ahead anyway and replace seals to radial shaft AND oil pump? Did you replace the pump too while you had the chance?

I agree, my next most likely suspect would be the oil pump ... worst comes to the worst ... chances I'll find BOTH are leaking??!!

It's all unchartered waters for me, I'm somewhat hesitant at this stage to remove everything as you did if it's only the radial shaft seals ... otherwise sort of opening up a can of worms.

Anyone else please can confirm or otherwise advise re my query about method of removal of the tinware around the insitu exhaust pipe, be very helpful. TIA.
Cheers.
Ken 




To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 10:02:59 +0800
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Make a working space .. R&R drive pulley & seals

 

Hi Ken,

 

I have done this job a few years ago.

I removed everything including the engine support bar, probably not necessary however it gave me easy access to do the work.

I also checked out the oil pump cover as I didn't know where the oil leak was coming from.

I used a water pipe - just happen to be the right size - to drive in the 2 lipped oil seal.

 

On another note I hope everything turns out alright for Les.

 

Cheers,

Theo

 

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 15 March 2016 12:19 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Make a working space .. R&R drive pulley & seals [2 Attachments]

 

 

Hi all,

I'm contemplating working on the above topic for this area of the WBX 2.1 MV motor that I've had no past DIY experience.

 

At this stage, primary concern and suspect is a slow engine oil leak from the radial shaft seals behind the drive pulley. Leaked engine oil is showing immediately below the drive pulley, collecting in the topside recesses of the engine case bracket that's above the engine supports. Fan belt and various pipes/surfaces also get oily plus the alternator fan collects and sprays a coating of oil directly up and onto the underside of the engine bay lid. Oil gradually gravitates also to under the motor and slide rails. Been happening for years now and a nuisance, so would like the issue done and dusted.

 

Suggested option so far is that the R&R drive pulley & seals procedure can be done while leaving the engine in place, provided sufficient working space is first created rearward of the 3 groove v-belt pulley. Apparently that amount of space is achieved by removal of the rear tinware panel. Then the R&R work sequence can be done from above in the engine bay. Any procedure issues with this so far?

 

Moving on, so to remove the rear tinware downwards, I see at least the muffler, its brackets and catalytic converter first need to be cleared out.

 

Next, the thing I'm posting about in particular ... the question is, will the tinware release ok without ALSO needing to remove the exhaust pipe that is adjacent to and running parallel with the moustache engine support bar? I'm hoping not, perhaps someone knows for sure.

 

Ideally for me, I'm thinking next .. just removing all rear and side tinware fasteners PLUS the three only front tinware fasteners adjacent to the moustache engine support bar will be enough to permit rotating the forward part of the tinware up and out from behind the exhaust pipe, at the same time drop the rear tinware portion. In effect, partly rotate and then drop the tinware out. See attached pics of area in question.

 

Any comments/suggestions/alternatives/options as to this procedure would be very much appreciated. TIA.

Cheers.

Ken

 

 


4
Hi Ken,
 I have done like Theo, removed the lot incl the candy bar or what the support bar is called.
Much easier to work with space especially if you pull the oil pump. when installing a new one get the right one which has a higher flow rate. ( the in and outlets are larger in dia ) I bought a new one from Van Cafe’ which is a beetle one, glad I spotted it. Got a proper one from Müllers
Once you start the job, should take you 60 to 90 mins to remove the lot. 
Also i fabricated an oil pump puller you need one to get the thing out. Easy to make.
Some folks instal the pump without the paper gasket if the old one is used again. In that case you would use Permatex or similar as  gasketing.

You will possibly struggle with some rusted bolts holding the exhaust in place, log splitter or hammer and chisel do work, so does a small angle grinder with a thin cutting blade.

good luck, Hartmut



On 17 Mar 2016, at 1:20 pm, Ken Garratt unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Hi Theo,
Thanks for that.
I'm interested please, in the end at the time, did you manage to confirm which one was in fact the leaker or did you choose instead to go ahead anyway and replace seals to radial shaft AND oil pump? Did you replace the pump too while you had the chance?

I agree, my next most likely suspect would be the oil pump ... worst comes to the worst ... chances I'll find BOTH are leaking??!!

It's all unchartered waters for me, I'm somewhat hesitant at this stage to remove everything as you did if it's only the radial shaft seals ... otherwise sort of opening up a can of worms.

Anyone else please can confirm or otherwise advise re my query about method of removal of the tinware around the insitu exhaust pipe, be very helpful. TIA.
Cheers.
Ken 




To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 10:02:59 +0800
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Make a working space .. R&R drive pulley & seals

 

Hi Ken,

 

I have done this job a few years ago.

I removed everything including the engine support bar, probably not necessary however it gave me easy access to do the work.

I also checked out the oil pump cover as I didn't know where the oil leak was coming from.

I used a water pipe - just happen to be the right size - to drive in the 2 lipped oil seal.

 

On another note I hope everything turns out alright for Les.

 

Cheers,

Theo

 
 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, 15 March 2016 12:19 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Make a working space .. R&R drive pulley & seals [2 Attachments]

 
 

Hi all,

I'm contemplating working on the above topic for this area of the WBX 2.1 MV motor that I've had no past DIY experience.

 

At this stage, primary concern and suspect is a slow engine oil leak from the radial shaft seals behind the drive pulley. Leaked engine oil is showing immediately below the drive pulley, collecting in the topside recesses of the engine case bracket that's above the engine supports. Fan belt and various pipes/surfaces also get oily plus the alternator fan collects and sprays a coating of oil directly up and onto the underside of the engine bay lid. Oil gradually gravitates also to under the motor and slide rails. Been happening for years now and a nuisance, so would like the issue done and dusted.

 

Suggested option so far is that the R&R drive pulley & seals procedure can be done while leaving the engine in place, provided sufficient working space is first created rearward of the 3 groove v-belt pulley. Apparently that amount of space is achieved by removal of the rear tinware panel. Then the R&R work sequence can be done from above in the engine bay. Any procedure issues with this so far?

 

Moving on, so to remove the rear tinware downwards, I see at least the muffler, its brackets and catalytic converter first need to be cleared out.

 

Next, the thing I'm posting about in particular ... the question is, will the tinware release ok without ALSO needing to remove the exhaust pipe that is adjacent to and running parallel with the moustache engine support bar? I'm hoping not, perhaps someone knows for sure.

 

Ideally for me, I'm thinking next .. just removing all rear and side tinware fasteners PLUS the three only front tinware fasteners adjacent to the moustache engine support bar will be enough to permit rotating the forward part of the tinware up and out from behind the exhaust pipe, at the same time drop the rear tinware portion. In effect, partly rotate and then drop the tinware out. See attached pics of area in question.

 

Any comments/suggestions/alternatives/options as to this procedure would be very much appreciated. TIA.

Cheers.

Ken

 
 




5
I can advise about removing the 'tinware.'
The muffler heat shield I call it.

undo the bolts on the outher ends of the 'cross bar' aka mustache bar ...
support the engine with a floor jack first of course.
Lower the rear of the engine pretty far ..
brilliantly VW disigned the front trans mount and shift linkage to accommodate this.

I'm sure I get that bar down about 10 inches pretty easily.
check all hoses and wires, that you are not pulling on them.
you may want to remove air box and Air Intake Boot.
you may want to loosen throttle cable at the engine.

the muffler heat shield is held to the cross bar by 4 bolts ...sizes are 15 and 17mm.
I always install those bolts so just removing the nuts will free the muffler heat shield.

there really is no other way to get it out that I have found.
like when installing an engine ...it must go on the engine before putting the engine in the van.

Once that is out of the way ..you can deal with exhaust parts as needed.

oil leaks in that area ..
oil Cooler seal ~ !
oil cooler.
front main seal on the crankshaft. A 'real' 2.1 waterboxer has a crank pulley and seal unique to the Syncro I'm pretty sure. They are not prone to leak.

neither are oil pumps..though if enough stuff is out of the way, the oil pump cover plate is easy to get to. That cover needs a super thin paper gasket, as too thick a gasket there would affect what oil pressure the pump can produce.

it's all easy once you get used to it.
doing it the first time ...
or for someone that doesn't work on cars 'a lot' ..it might be a little challenging.
but ..it does 'just come apart.'
Generally....I deal with rust and stuck parts on exhaust components quite a lot in this area of the engine. like if you have to undo any exhaust fasteners ..
start spraying them with penetrating oil immediately ..and then repeatedly.
Actually ..don't touch any fasteners without spraying them with penetrating oil first.

and don't put any back together bare metal-to-metal. I use a lot of anti-sieze compound on exhaust nuts and bolts.

good luck !
scott




On 3/16/2016 4:20 PM, Ken Garratt unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] wrote:

Hi Theo,
Thanks for that.
I'm interested please, in the end at the time, did you manage to confirm which one was in fact the leaker or did you choose instead to go ahead anyway and replace seals to radial shaft AND oil pump? Did you replace the pump too while you had the chance?

I agree, my next most likely suspect would be the oil pump ... worst comes to the worst ... chances I'll find BOTH are leaking??!!

It's all unchartered waters for me, I'm somewhat hesitant at this stage to remove everything as you did if it's only the radial shaft seals ... otherwise sort of opening up a can of worms.

Anyone else please can confirm or otherwise advise re my query about method of removal of the tinware around the insitu exhaust pipe, be very helpful. TIA.
Cheers.
Ken




To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 10:02:59 +0800
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Make a working space .. R&R drive pulley & seals


Hi Ken,

I have done this job a few years ago.

I removed everything including the engine support bar, probably not necessary however it gave me easy access to do the work.

I also checked out the oil pump cover as I didn't know where the oil leak was coming from.

I used a water pipe - just happen to be the right size - to drive in the 2 lipped oil seal.

On another note I hope everything turns out alright for Les.

Cheers,

Theo

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 15 March 2016 12:19 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Make a working space .. R&R drive pulley & seals [2 Attachments]

Hi all,

I'm contemplating working on the above topic for this area of the WBX 2.1 MV motor that I've had no past DIY experience.

At this stage, primary concern and suspect is a slow engine oil leak from the radial shaft seals behind the drive pulley. Leaked engine oil is showing immediately below the drive pulley, collecting in the topside recesses of the engine case bracket that's above the engine supports. Fan belt and various pipes/surfaces also get oily plus the alternator fan collects and sprays a coating of oil directly up and onto the underside of the engine bay lid. Oil gradually gravitates also to under the motor and slide rails. Been happening for years now and a nuisance, so would like the issue done and dusted.

Suggested option so far is that the R&R drive pulley & seals procedure can be done while leaving the engine in place, provided sufficient working space is first created rearward of the 3 groove v-belt pulley. Apparently that amount of space is achieved by removal of the rear tinware panel. Then the R&R work sequence can be done from above in the engine bay. Any procedure issues with this so far?

Moving on, so to remove the rear tinware downwards, I see at least the muffler, its brackets and catalytic converter first need to be cleared out.

Next, the thing I'm posting about in particular ... the question is, will the tinware release ok without ALSO needing to remove the exhaust pipe that is adjacent to and running parallel with the moustache engine support bar? I'm hoping not, perhaps someone knows for sure.

Ideally for me, I'm thinking next .. just removing all rear and side tinware fasteners PLUS the three only front tinware fasteners adjacent to the moustache engine support bar will be enough to permit rotating the forward part of the tinware up and out from behind the exhaust pipe, at the same time drop the rear tinware portion. In effect, partly rotate and then drop the tinware out. See attached pics of area in question.

Any comments/suggestions/alternatives/options as to this procedure would be very much appreciated. TIA.

Cheers.

Ken



6

Hi Ken,

Hartmut & Scott did answer some of your concerns.

I put some blocks under the wheels to give me more space, and a bottle jack and a block of wood to support the engine.

The night before I sprayed all the fasteners with penetrine, plus I had some spare bolts & nuts.

I could not identify the oil leak so I replaced the paper gasket as well.

No more oil leaks, but that was years ago.

I don't know how to get the large socket & bar in to place to remove the 3 groove V-belt pulley nut without removing the tin wear.

Cheers,

Theo

 

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, 17 March 2016 10:20 AM
To: Syncro Australia Forum
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Make a working space .. R&R drive pulley & seals

 

 

Hi Theo,

Thanks for that.

I'm interested please, in the end at the time, did you manage to confirm which one was in fact the leaker or did you choose instead to go ahead anyway and replace seals to radial shaft AND oil pump? Did you replace the pump too while you had the chance?

 

I agree, my next most likely suspect would be the oil pump ... worst comes to the worst ... chances I'll find BOTH are leaking??!!

 

It's all unchartered waters for me, I'm somewhat hesitant at this stage to remove everything as you did if it's only the radial shaft seals ... otherwise sort of opening up a can of worms.

 

Anyone else please can confirm or otherwise advise re my query about method of removal of the tinware around the insitu exhaust pipe, be very helpful. TIA.

Cheers.

Ken 

 

 

 

 

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 10:02:59 +0800
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Make a working space .. R&R drive pulley & seals

 

 

Hi Ken,

 

I have done this job a few years ago.

I removed everything including the engine support bar, probably not necessary however it gave me easy access to do the work.

I also checked out the oil pump cover as I didn't know where the oil leak was coming from.

I used a water pipe - just happen to be the right size - to drive in the 2 lipped oil seal.

 

On another note I hope everything turns out alright for Les.

 

Cheers,

Theo

 

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 15 March 2016 12:19 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Make a working space .. R&R drive pulley & seals [2 Attachments]

 

 

Hi all,

I'm contemplating working on the above topic for this area of the WBX 2.1 MV motor that I've had no past DIY experience.

 

At this stage, primary concern and suspect is a slow engine oil leak from the radial shaft seals behind the drive pulley. Leaked engine oil is showing immediately below the drive pulley, collecting in the topside recesses of the engine case bracket that's above the engine supports. Fan belt and various pipes/surfaces also get oily plus the alternator fan collects and sprays a coating of oil directly up and onto the underside of the engine bay lid. Oil gradually gravitates also to under the motor and slide rails. Been happening for years now and a nuisance, so would like the issue done and dusted.

 

Suggested option so far is that the R&R drive pulley & seals procedure can be done while leaving the engine in place, provided sufficient working space is first created rearward of the 3 groove v-belt pulley. Apparently that amount of space is achieved by removal of the rear tinware panel. Then the R&R work sequence can be done from above in the engine bay. Any procedure issues with this so far?

 

Moving on, so to remove the rear tinware downwards, I see at least the muffler, its brackets and catalytic converter first need to be cleared out.

 

Next, the thing I'm posting about in particular ... the question is, will the tinware release ok without ALSO needing to remove the exhaust pipe that is adjacent to and running parallel with the moustache engine support bar? I'm hoping not, perhaps someone knows for sure.

 

Ideally for me, I'm thinking next .. just removing all rear and side tinware fasteners PLUS the three only front tinware fasteners adjacent to the moustache engine support bar will be enough to permit rotating the forward part of the tinware up and out from behind the exhaust pipe, at the same time drop the rear tinware portion. In effect, partly rotate and then drop the tinware out. See attached pics of area in question.

 

Any comments/suggestions/alternatives/options as to this procedure would be very much appreciated. TIA.

Cheers.

Ken

 

 

 

7
Hi Ken

The most likely culprit for an oil leak in that area would be the oil cooler or it's seals.

Oil filters are also known to fail at a seam, or do to debris thrown up on bush tracks. The "O" ring seal can sometimes leak, especially if the filter was not adequately tightened when installed.

If you still have the original oil cooler it is probably due for replacement, as they eventually rot out.

Both filter and cooler can be easily checked without surgery.

The pulley oil seals will harden and fail if modern engine oils are used that are not compatible, use oils specified for 'classic' vehicles.

Oil pumps rarely develop a major leak - they just seep - and probably not onto the back of the pulley to be sprayed around the engine bay. It is easy to remove the oil pump cover and replace the paper gasket. It is very cheap, same as used on the air-cooled engines for decades.

Have a look at the back of the cover to see if it is badly scored by the pump gears, which will cause a minor loss of oil pressure. A good workshop manual will show you how to use a sheet of "Wet & Dry" on a pane of glass to refurbish the cover.

You need to buy 4 new 8mm x 1.25 sealing nuts for the oil pump cover, available from most VW parts outlets.

Be wary of replacing oil pumps with "HD" models as they are often a waste of money, and not as good as the original. Engines last many years on the standard pump - there is nothing wrong with them unless you are making major engine modifications or installing a remote oil cooler.

The distributor shaft "O" ring also requires replacement from time to time.

Cheers,

Roger.