New owners questions...

1
Hi guys, got a few basic queries for you.

Is removing the prop shaft a simple way to save some fuel when your not planning on going
off road? Or does it cause probs with the VC coupling.

My 89' with 311000 km van has the original coupling in it. I think the previous owner had the
prop shaft out a lot of the time but what happens to the fluid over 20 yrs of on and off use?

And is there a meet happening around Sydney sometime?

Cheers
Bill
2
Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] New owners questions...
Hi Bill

Les Harris has tested his syncro with and without the propshaft connected (he has a decoupler though) and found the economy didn’t change. I’m sure he will confirm this.

I had the oil changed in my transaxle last week and talking to the guys at Volkspower in Melbourne they suggested I should put my propshaft back in as running without it was bad for the pinion bearing in the front diff. They don’t like being driven by the crownwheel and having no load.

I don’t think it will cause any problems with the VC but if yours is that old it will probably need to be changed.

I have the same problem as well as wear in my propshaft causing vibrations. A propshaft rebuild and new vc is next on my list.

The VC usually goes hard so people remove the shaft to reduce binding.

Hope that helps

Gary Cookson


 

Hi guys, got a few basic queries for you.

Is removing the prop shaft a simple way to save some fuel when your not planning on going
off road? Or does it cause probs with the VC coupling.

My 89' with 311000 km van has the original coupling in it. I think the previous owner had the
prop shaft out a lot of the time but what happens to the fluid over 20 yrs of on and off use?

And is there a meet happening around Sydney sometime?

Cheers
Bill

 
    
3
Bill,
 
As Gary has mentioned, I have tested fuel consumption.
 
The matter of fuel consumption in 2WD versus 4WD has drawn a lot of conflicting comment over the years on all of the world's Syncro websites, so I run a fuel consumption test over 30,000 km where the running conditions had better than 98% identicality.  The results showed that the consumption in 4WD was better than in 2WD by a very slight margin.
 
I discussed the results with colleagues, looking for reasons why.  A lot of the small possible factors that came up were most equivocal but one significant factor emerged.  A powertrain engineer colleague told me that a hypoid crownwheel and pinion absorbs more power when it is being driven than when it is driving and this can be measured on a transmission dynamometer.
 
As Volkspower suggests, running without drive to the front axle reverses the load on the front diff and pinion bearing.  Whilst it would need comprehensive testing to establish whether this is detrimental or not, I would suggest that running it in the driving mode is the safer way to go.
 
When running decoupled (decoupler or driveshaft removed), the VC is not doing anything and is not subjected to wear and tear.  One of the world's prominent Syncro people is Derek Drew.  Amongst a lot of significant things, Derek had derived a test for the VC.  I will send it to you by direct email and you can determine the state of your VC.
 
The Syncro system was designed to run full time 4WD and I have found the handling and grip to be discernibly better in 4WD than 2WD, even on dry highway surfaces.  As the surfaces deteriorate, through wet bitumen to dirt roads to gravel to very poor grip surfaces, the benefits of the full time 4WD became progressively more apparent. 
 
My VC is on the aggressive side due to the fact that the original owner ran dissimilar size tyres front and rear.  (This is absolutely guaranteed to destroy the VC in sort order.)  I have a decoupler but use it only when doing full lock turns on high grip surfaces; for all other running, it stays in 4WD.
 
Les
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 9:53 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] New owners questions...

Hi guys, got a few basic queries for you.

Is removing the prop shaft a simple way to save some fuel when your not planning on going
off road? Or does it cause probs with the VC coupling.

My 89' with 311000 km van has the original coupling in it. I think the previous owner had the
prop shaft out a lot of the time but what happens to the fluid over 20 yrs of on and off use?

And is there a meet happening around Sydney sometime?

Cheers
Bill

4

Hi Les,

 

So you got a decoupler just to turn tight corners?  That’s an expensive luxury.

 

Haven’t spoken to you since I fitted mine but I pretty much only use the 4WD on the sand these days.  I  got rid of the VC entirely and replaced it with one of those solid shaft connectors.  It’s just a feeling but I really think the van runs better and more easily in 2WD on the sealed road trips… wouldn’t go back unless I used it offroad all the time. 

 

Those petrol usage figures are amazing … especially given your VC isn’t in good condition.  Mine was in similarly bad condition and I would say that the economy is noticeably better with the  2WD  option….. although I haven’t done the stats like you did.

 

Anyway, thought I’d share the info.

 

Cheers

 

Stu

 

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Les Harris
Sent: Friday, 22 August 2008 10:09 AM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] New owners questions...

 

Bill,

 

As Gary has mentioned, I have tested fuel consumption.

 

The matter of fuel consumption in 2WD versus 4WD has drawn a lot of conflicting comment over the years on all of the world's Syncro websites, so I run a fuel consumption test over 30,000 km where the running conditions had better than 98% identicality.  The results showed that the consumption in 4WD was better than in 2WD by a very slight margin.

 

I discussed the results with colleagues, looking for reasons why.  A lot of the small possible factors that came up were most equivocal but one significant factor emerged.  A powertrain engineer colleague told me that a hypoid crownwheel and pinion absorbs more power when it is being driven than when it is driving and this can be measured on a transmission dynamometer.

 

As Volkspower suggests, running without drive to the front axle reverses the load on the front diff and pinion bearing.  Whilst it would need comprehensive testing to establish whether this is detrimental or not, I would suggest that running it in the driving mode is the safer way to go.

 

When running decoupled (decoupler or driveshaft removed), the VC is not doing anything and is not subjected to wear and tear.  One of the world's prominent Syncro people is Derek Drew.  Amongst a lot of significant things, Derek had derived a test for the VC.  I will send it to you by direct email and you can determine the state of your VC.

 

The Syncro system was designed to run full time 4WD and I have found the handling and grip to be discernibly better in 4WD than 2WD, even on dry highway surfaces.  As the surfaces deteriorate, through wet bitumen to dirt roads to gravel to very poor grip surfaces, the benefits of the full time 4WD became progressively more apparent. 

 

My VC is on the aggressive side due to the fact that the original owner ran dissimilar size tyres front and rear.  (This is absolutely guaranteed to destroy the VC in sort order.)  I have a decoupler but use it only when doing full lock turns on high grip surfaces; for all other running, it stays in 4WD.

 

Les

 

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 9:53 PM

Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] New owners questions...

 

Hi guys, got a few basic queries for you.

Is removing the prop shaft a simple way to save some fuel when your not planning on going
off road? Or does it cause probs with the VC coupling.

My 89' with 311000 km van has the original coupling in it. I think the previous owner had the
prop shaft out a lot of the time but what happens to the fluid over 20 yrs of on and off use?

And is there a meet happening around Sydney sometime?

Cheers
Bill

5
Bill,

It is not really a Syncro meet or an off-road expedition for tha
matter, but I am a member of the kombi Klub of Australia as well and
there is a small cruise planned for Sunday, September 14, 08 up to
the Hunter Valley Gardens if you or any other Syncros are interested.

I think I have managed to convince my Dad to bring my Mum and his
Syncro up for the day - to play with the Gran-kids, so hopefully
there will be at least 2 syncros there - the rest will still be
Kombi's so its not too bad.

After that there is the VW Kombi World record attempt up at Taree
which there is usually a few syncros at.

Let me know if you want any further details.

Cheers,

Scott
Terrigal

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "William Mattholie"
<billmattholie@...> wrote:
>
> Hi guys, got a few basic queries for you.
>
> Is removing the prop shaft a simple way to save some fuel when your
not planning on going
> off road? Or does it cause probs with the VC coupling.
>
> My 89' with 311000 km van has the original coupling in it. I think
the previous owner had the
> prop shaft out a lot of the time but what happens to the fluid over
20 yrs of on and off use?
>
> And is there a meet happening around Sydney sometime?
>
> Cheers
> Bill
>
6
Hi Les,

Is the VC test in files section? If not could you send me a copy as
well please as I don't what state the VC is in, in my recent purchase.
It has a dead engine for now.

> When running decoupled (decoupler or driveshaft removed), the VC is
not doing anything and is not subjected to wear and tear. One of the
world's prominent Syncro people is Derek Drew. Amongst a lot of
significant things, Derek had derived a test for the VC. I will send
it to you by direct email and you can determine the state of your VC.
>
7
Stu,
 
Crikey, long time no hear!  I hope that the lovely lady (Elizabeth?) is still on the scene.
 
There is an element of personal preference in all of this.  Different people look for different characteristics in a vehicle.  Aspects that some will rate highly are low on the priority list for other people. 
 
No, I didn't get a decoupler just to protect the gearbox from unnecessary damage when parking.  At the time I bought it, there were no objective comparisons available between running 2WD versus 4WD but there was a lot of uninformed opinion, particularly in respect of fuel consumption, and including handling characteristics.  Constantly removing and replacing the prop shaft is a very difficult and time consuming way of making meaningful comparisons, so I got the decoupler to run my own tests. 
 
The end result is that I have been able to generate meaningful consumption figures and I have been able to assess the handling characteristics that are important to me but might not be important to some other people.  Thus, I prefer the characteristics experienced in full time 4WD.  One thing that I mention from time to time is the anti-lock effect generated by the VC.  During the continuous period of running in 2WD for the fuel consumption test, I experienced incipient and actual front wheel locking in circumstances where that had not occurred in full time 4WD.
 
(For the benefit of recent new members who have not come across the solid shaft replacement of the VC, it can be used ONLY in sand.  Using it on any other surfaces will cause wear or failure of the gearbox.)
 
  Les
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 10:43 AM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] New owners questions...

Hi Les,

So you got a decoupler just to turn tight corners?  That’s an expensive luxury.

Haven’t spoken to you since I fitted mine but I pretty much only use the 4WD on the sand these days.  I  got rid of the VC entirely and replaced it with one of those solid shaft connectors.  It’s just a feeling but I really think the van runs better and more easily in 2WD on the sealed road trips… wouldn’t go back unless I used it offroad all the time. 

Those petrol usage figures are amazing … especially given your VC isn’t in good condition.  Mine was in similarly bad condition and I would say that the economy is noticeably better with the  2WD  option….. although I haven’t done the stats like you did.

Anyway, thought I’d share the info.

Cheers

Stu

 

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Les Harris
Sent: Friday, 22 August 2008 10:09 AM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] New owners questions...

 

Bill,

 

As Gary has mentioned, I have tested fuel consumption.

 

The matter of fuel consumption in 2WD versus 4WD has drawn a lot of conflicting comment over the years on all of the world's Syncro websites, so I run a fuel consumption test over 30,000 km where the running conditions had better than 98% identicality.  The results showed that the consumption in 4WD was better than in 2WD by a very slight margin.

 

I discussed the results with colleagues, looking for reasons why.  A lot of the small possible factors that came up were most equivocal but one significant factor emerged.  A powertrain engineer colleague told me that a hypoid crownwheel and pinion absorbs more power when it is being driven than when it is driving and this can be measured on a transmission dynamometer.

 

As Volkspower suggests, running without drive to the front axle reverses the load on the front diff and pinion bearing.  Whilst it would need comprehensive testing to establish whether this is detrimental or not, I would suggest that running it in the driving mode is the safer way to go.

 

When running decoupled (decoupler or driveshaft removed), the VC is not doing anything and is not subjected to wear and tear.  One of the world's prominent Syncro people is Derek Drew.  Amongst a lot of significant things, Derek had derived a test for the VC.  I will send it to you by direct email and you can determine the state of your VC.

 

The Syncro system was designed to run full time 4WD and I have found the handling and grip to be discernibly better in 4WD than 2WD, even on dry highway surfaces.  As the surfaces deteriorate, through wet bitumen to dirt roads to gravel to very poor grip surfaces, the benefits of the full time 4WD became progressively more apparent. 

 

My VC is on the aggressive side due to the fact that the original owner ran dissimilar size tyres front and rear.  (This is absolutely guaranteed to destroy the VC in sort order.)  I have a decoupler but use it only when doing full lock turns on high grip surfaces; for all other running, it stays in 4WD.

 

Les

 

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 9:53 PM

Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] New owners questions...

 

Hi guys, got a few basic queries for you.

Is removing the prop shaft a simple way to save some fuel when your not planning on going
off road? Or does it cause probs with the VC coupling.

My 89' with 311000 km van has the original coupling in it. I think the previous owner had the
prop shaft out a lot of the time but what happens to the fluid over 20 yrs of on and off use?

And is there a meet happening around Sydney sometime?

Cheers
Bill

8
RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: New owners questions...

Hi Scott,

We may be interested, could you forward any details to murray.lee@usyd.edu.au? We are either in Newcastle that weekend or the one before so if the planets were to align...

Cheers Murray



-----Original Message-----
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Scott
Sent: Fri 8/22/2008 11:23 AM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: New owners questions...

Bill,

It is not really a Syncro meet or an off-road expedition for tha
matter, but I am a member of the kombi Klub of Australia as well and
there is a small cruise planned for Sunday, September 14, 08 up to
the Hunter Valley Gardens if you or any other Syncros are interested.

I think I have managed to convince my Dad to bring my Mum and his
Syncro up for the day - to play with the Gran-kids, so hopefully
there will be at least 2 syncros there - the rest will still be
Kombi's so its not too bad.

After that there is the VW Kombi World record attempt up at Taree
which there is usually a few syncros at.

Let me know if you want any further details.

Cheers,

Scott
Terrigal

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "William Mattholie"
<billmattholie@...> wrote:

>
> Hi guys, got a few basic queries for you.
>
> Is removing the prop shaft a simple way to save some fuel when your
not planning on going
> off road? Or does it cause probs with the VC coupling.
>
> My 89' with 311000 km van has the original coupling in it. I think
the previous owner had the
> prop shaft out a lot of the time but what happens to the fluid over
20 yrs of on and off use?
>
> And is there a meet happening around Sydney sometime?
>
> Cheers
> Bill
>

9
Hi Scott / Murray

Been a bit out of the loop - only just back from O/S - can you advise the 14/9 details of Hunter Cruise?

Murray - how was your big o/s trip?

Regards
Mark.


On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Murray Lee <murray.lee@usyd.edu.au> wrote:

Hi Scott,

We may be interested, could you forward any details to murray.lee@usyd.edu.au? We are either in Newcastle that weekend or the one before so if the planets were to align...

Cheers Murray





-----Original Message-----
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Scott
Sent: Fri 8/22/2008 11:23 AM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: New owners questions...

Bill,

It is not really a Syncro meet or an off-road expedition for tha
matter, but I am a member of the kombi Klub of Australia as well and
there is a small cruise planned for Sunday, September 14, 08 up to
the Hunter Valley Gardens if you or any other Syncros are interested.

I think I have managed to convince my Dad to bring my Mum and his
Syncro up for the day - to play with the Gran-kids, so hopefully
there will be at least 2 syncros there - the rest will still be
Kombi's so its not too bad.

After that there is the VW Kombi World record attempt up at Taree
which there is usually a few syncros at.

Let me know if you want any further details.

Cheers,

Scott
Terrigal

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "William Mattholie"

<billmattholie@...> wrote:
>
> Hi guys, got a few basic queries for you.
>
> Is removing the prop shaft a simple way to save some fuel when your
not planning on going
> off road? Or does it cause probs with the VC coupling.
>
> My 89' with 311000 km van has the original coupling in it. I think
the previous owner had the
> prop shaft out a lot of the time but what happens to the fluid over
20 yrs of on and off use?
>
> And is there a meet happening around Sydney sometime?
>
> Cheers
> Bill
>



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10

Hi Les,

 

Yes, it has been a while (Elizabeth and I have been married in the meantime).

 

I don’t contribute much in correspondence but pretty much read all the stuff that comes through on this club. 

 

I guess from what you are saying, you don’t recommend the decoupler? 

 

I reckon if you have a really good VC then you probably don’t need a decoupler.

For me, I rarely drive the van (maybe 15 times a year when going away) and the trips are long on the bitumen and then onto sand.  I absolutely swear by the set-up I have if only for the performance of the VC-less performance on sand.  The petrol performance wasn’t really an issue for me but my perceived saving on the front transmission gear was an issue… but I drive it so rarely it probably doesn’t matter. At the end of the day I am happy because I haven’t had any issues getting stuck in the sand since I made the change.

 

Maybe we should catch up sometime and you can have a go at mine and see what you think.  I might pop along to that VW day later in the year.

 

Catch you soon.

 

Stu

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Les Harris
Sent: Friday, 22 August 2008 11:35 AM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] New owners questions...

 

Stu,

 

Crikey, long time no hear!  I hope that the lovely lady (Elizabeth?) is still on the scene.

 

There is an element of personal preference in all of this.  Different people look for different characteristics in a vehicle.  Aspects that some will rate highly are low on the priority list for other people. 

 

No, I didn't get a decoupler just to protect the gearbox from unnecessary damage when parking.  At the time I bought it, there were no objective comparisons available between running 2WD versus 4WD but there was a lot of uninformed opinion, particularly in respect of fuel consumption, and including handling characteristics.  Constantly removing and replacing the prop shaft is a very difficult and time consuming way of making meaningful comparisons, so I got the decoupler to run my own tests. 

 

The end result is that I have been able to generate meaningful consumption figures and I have been able to assess the handling characteristics that are important to me but might not be important to some other people.  Thus, I prefer the characteristics experienced in full time 4WD.  One thing that I mention from time to time is the anti-lock effect generated by the VC.  During the continuous period of running in 2WD for the fuel consumption test, I experienced incipient and actual front wheel locking in circumstances where that had not occurred in full time 4WD.

 

(For the benefit of recent new members who have not come across the solid shaft replacement of the VC, it can be used ONLY in sand.  Using it on any other surfaces will cause wear or failure of the gearbox.)

 

  Les

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Stuart Parry

Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 10:43 AM

Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] New owners questions...

 

Hi Les,

So you got a decoupler just to turn tight corners?  That’s an expensive luxury.

Haven’t spoken to you since I fitted mine but I pretty much only use the 4WD on the sand these days.  I  got rid of the VC entirely and replaced it with one of those solid shaft connectors.  It’s just a feeling but I really think the van runs better and more easily in 2WD on the sealed road trips… wouldn’t go back unless I used it offroad all the time. 

Those petrol usage figures are amazing … especially given your VC isn’t in good condition.  Mine was in similarly bad condition and I would say that the economy is noticeably better with the  2WD  option….. although I haven’t done the stats like you did.

Anyway, thought I’d share the info.

Cheers

Stu

 

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Les Harris
Sent: Friday, 22 August 2008 10:09 AM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] New owners questions...

 

Bill,

 

As Gary has mentioned, I have tested fuel consumption.

 

The matter of fuel consumption in 2WD versus 4WD has drawn a lot of conflicting comment over the years on all of the world's Syncro websites, so I run a fuel consumption test over 30,000 km where the running conditions had better than 98% identicality.  The results showed that the consumption in 4WD was better than in 2WD by a very slight margin.

 

I discussed the results with colleagues, looking for reasons why.  A lot of the small possible factors that came up were most equivocal but one significant factor emerged.  A powertrain engineer colleague told me that a hypoid crownwheel and pinion absorbs more power when it is being driven than when it is driving and this can be measured on a transmission dynamometer.

 

As Volkspower suggests, running without drive to the front axle reverses the load on the front diff and pinion bearing.  Whilst it would need comprehensive testing to establish whether this is detrimental or not, I would suggest that running it in the driving mode is the safer way to go.

 

When running decoupled (decoupler or driveshaft removed), the VC is not doing anything and is not subjected to wear and tear.  One of the world's prominent Syncro people is Derek Drew.  Amongst a lot of significant things, Derek had derived a test for the VC.  I will send it to you by direct email and you can determine the state of your VC.

 

The Syncro system was designed to run full time 4WD and I have found the handling and grip to be discernibly better in 4WD than 2WD, even on dry highway surfaces.  As the surfaces deteriorate, through wet bitumen to dirt roads to gravel to very poor grip surfaces, the benefits of the full time 4WD became progressively more apparent. 

 

My VC is on the aggressive side due to the fact that the original owner ran dissimilar size tyres front and rear.  (This is absolutely guaranteed to destroy the VC in sort order.)  I have a decoupler but use it only when doing full lock turns on high grip surfaces; for all other running, it stays in 4WD.

 

Les

 

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 9:53 PM

Subject:

(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

11
Stu,
 
Pleased to hear that you and Elizabeth are married.  Such a lovely lady, and please tell her so from me.
 
Decoupler: 
 
For anyone with a defunct VC, it makes a lot more sense to install a new or reconditioned VC. 
(New members: Mike Plompen sells reconditioned VCs for a lot less than the king's ransom that VW charges for a new one!!) 
This brings the Syncro back to the design intention and function.  I regard the Syncro system as being extremely efficient and suitable for a very wide range of functions.
 
For anyone who prefers an aggressive VC, a decoupler allows to extra benefits of the aggressive VC but permits decoupling in situations where persistent use of full lock turns will damage to gearbox.
 
For someone like you, a keen diver who makes long transport drives on highways but then needs to be able to make long passages on sand beaches, the decoupler and solid drive is ideal.
 
Do please try to get to the DOTVW.  There is an off-road theme this year and we will be putting on a display of Syncros plus many big pics of the Syncro in off-rod conditions.  And please bring Elizabeth>
 
Les
 
PS: Is Ronnie Atlas still on the scene?
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 12:53 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] New owners questions...

Hi Les,

Yes, it has been a while (Elizabeth and I have been married in the meantime).

I don’t contribute much in correspondence but pretty much read all the stuff that comes through on this club. 

I guess from what you are saying, you don’t recommend the decoupler? 

I reckon if you have a really good VC then you probably don’t need a decoupler.

For me, I rarely drive the van (maybe 15 times a year when going away) and the trips are long on the bitumen and then onto sand.  I absolutely swear by the set-up I have if only for the performance of the VC-less performance on sand.  The petrol performance wasn’t really an issue for me but my perceived saving on the front transmission gear was an issue… but I drive it so rarely it probably doesn’t matter. At the end of the day I am happy because I haven’t had any issues getting stuck in the sand since I made the change.

Maybe we should catch up sometime and you can have a go at mine and see what you think.  I might pop along to that VW day later in the year.

Catch you soon.

Stu

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Les Harris
Sent: Friday, 22 August 2008 11:35 AM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] New owners questions...

 

Stu,

 

Crikey, long time no hear!  I hope that the lovely lady (Elizabeth?) is still on the scene.

 

There is an element of personal preference in all of this.  Different people look for different characteristics in a vehicle.  Aspects that some will rate highly are low on the priority list for other people. 

 

No, I didn't get a decoupler just to protect the gearbox from unnecessary damage when parking.  At the time I bought it, there were no objective comparisons available between running 2WD versus 4WD but there was a lot of uninformed opinion, particularly in respect of fuel consumption, and including handling characteristics.  Constantly removing and replacing the prop shaft is a very difficult and time consuming way of making meaningful comparisons, so I got the decoupler to run my own tests. 

 

The end result is that I have been able to generate meaningful consumption figures and I have been able to assess the handling characteristics that are important to me but might not be important to some other people.  Thus, I prefer the characteristics experienced in full time 4WD.  One thing that I mention from time to time is the anti-lock effect generated by the VC.  During the continuous period of running in 2WD for the fuel consumption test, I experienced incipient and actual front wheel locking in circumstances where that had not occurred in full time 4WD.

 

(For the benefit of recent new members who have not come across the solid shaft replacement of the VC, it can be used ONLY in sand.  Using it on any other surfaces will cause wear or failure of the gearbox.)

 

  Les

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Stuart Parry

Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 10:43 AM

Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] New owners questions...

 

Hi Les,

So you got a decoupler just to turn tight corners?  That’s an expensive luxury.

Haven’t spoken to you since I fitted mine but I pretty much only use the 4WD on the sand these days.  I  got rid of the VC entirely and replaced it with one of those solid shaft connectors.  It’s just a feeling but I really think the van runs better and more easily in 2WD on the sealed road trips… wouldn’t go back unless I used it offroad all the time. 

Those petrol usage figures are amazing … especially given your VC isn’t in good condition.  Mine was in similarly bad condition and I would say that the economy is noticeably better with the  2WD  option….. although I haven’t done the stats like you did.

Anyway, thought I’d share the info.

Cheers

Stu

 

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Les Harris
Sent: Friday, 22 August 2008 10:09 AM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] New owners questions...

 

Bill,

 

As Gary has mentioned, I have tested fuel consumption.

 

The matter of fuel consumption in 2WD versus 4WD has drawn a lot of conflicting comment over the years on all of the world's Syncro websites, so I run a fuel consumption test over 30,000 km where the running conditions had better than 98% identicality.  The results showed that the consumption in 4WD was better than in 2WD by a very slight margin.

 

I discussed the results with colleagues, looking for reasons why.  A lot of the small possible factors that came up were most equivocal but one significant factor emerged.  A powertrain engineer colleague told me that a hypoid crownwheel and pinion absorbs more power when it is being driven than when it is driving and this can be measured on a transmission dynamometer.

 

As Volkspower suggests, running without drive to the front axle reverses the load on the front diff and pinion bearing.  Whilst it would need comprehensive testing to establish whether this is detrimental or not, I would suggest that running it in the driving mode is the safer way to go.

 

When running decoupled (decoupler or driveshaft removed), the VC is not doing anything and is not subjected to wear and tear.  One of the world's prominent Syncro people is Derek Drew.  Amongst a lot of significant things, Derek had derived a test for the VC.  I will send it to you by direct email and you can determine the state of your VC.

 

The Syncro system was designed to run full time 4WD and I have found the handling and grip to be discernibly better in 4WD than 2WD, even on dry highway surfaces.  As the surfaces deteriorate, through wet bitumen to dirt roads to gravel to very poor grip surfaces, the benefits of the full time 4WD became progressively more apparent. 

 

My VC is on the aggressive side due to the fact that the original owner ran dissimilar size tyres front and rear.  (This is absolutely guaranteed to destroy the VC in sort order.)  I have a decoupler but use it only when doing full lock turns on high grip surfaces; for all other running, it stays in 4WD.

 

Les

 

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 9:53 PM

Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] New owners questions...

 

Hi guys, got a few basic queries for you.

Is removing the prop shaft a simple way to save some fuel when your not planning on going
off road? Or does it cause probs with the VC coupling.

My 89' with 311000 km van has the original coupling in it. I think the previous owner had the
prop shaft out a lot of the time but what happens to the fluid over 20 yrs of on and off use?

And is there a meet happening around Sydney sometime?

Cheers
Bill

12
Murray/ Mark,

The details are as follows:

The following is the message from Mellisa who organises most of these
events - lovely lady and has 2 T3's (an 82 air-cooled fully restored -
and an '85 twin slider caravelle -plus she has a red T4 transporter):


"Ok, back to our usual 2nd Sunday of the Month meet for September.
That makes it the 14th September and we are heading to Hunter Valley
Gardens.
Newcastle members, we will meet at Belmont North Hungry Jacks and
cruise down to Doyalson to meet up with the Central Coasters who will
be meeting at The Entrance car park. Times to be confirmed so check
back here and this post will be edited.

Contact Melissa : 0414547437 (Newcastle)
or Chuck : 0418 869 800 (Central Coast)

Are there any Sydney members keen? Let me know and I can add meet up
details for you too and arrange meeting spots for when we join the
F3."

We usually meet the Newcastle crew at around 10:00 - 10:30am and in
this case at Doyalson. This means a fairly early start fro the
central coat crew who usually meet at either Terrigal Haven or at
500m north of the Entrance Bridge at North Entrance.

I will post more details when they come to hand.

There is also the Hunter Valley Gardens Festival of the Flowers on
the same weekend with the following details:

"I just looked at the Hunter Valley Gardens website, during the month
of Sept they are holding their fourth annual Festival of Flowers. It
includes entertainment on weekends. You can see the details here -
http://www.hvg.com.au/news.asp
Should be a good day out.
It also has entry fees which are:

Adults (13yrs +) ............................... $19.90 per person


Pensioner/Concession ...................... $15.50 per person


Clubs/Societies/Groups .................... $16.50 per person
For group bookings please contact Vanessa on 02 4998 4096.


Children (6 - 12yrs) .......................... $12.00 per person
Children 5 years and under are free.


Family Pass ...................................... $54.00 per Family
2 adults & 2 children


Locals ..............................................$14. 00 per
person
45km radius. Proof of residencey is required. e.g. drivers license"

Should be something for everyone.

Cheers,

Scott






__________________


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Kofahl"
<markkofahl@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Scott / Murray
>
> Been a bit out of the loop - only just back from O/S - can you
advise the
> 14/9 details of Hunter Cruise?
>
> Murray - how was your big o/s trip?
>
> Regards
> Mark.
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Murray Lee <murray.lee@...> wrote:
>
> > Hi Scott,
> >
> > We may be interested, could you forward any details to
> > murray.lee@...? We are either in Newcastle that weekend or the one
> > before so if the planets were to align...
> >
> > Cheers Murray
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Scott
> > Sent: Fri 8/22/2008 11:23 AM
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: New owners questions...
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > It is not really a Syncro meet or an off-road expedition for tha
> > matter, but I am a member of the kombi Klub of Australia as well
and
> > there is a small cruise planned for Sunday, September 14, 08 up to
> > the Hunter Valley Gardens if you or any other Syncros are
interested.
> >
> > I think I have managed to convince my Dad to bring my Mum and his
> > Syncro up for the day - to play with the Gran-kids, so hopefully
> > there will be at least 2 syncros there - the rest will still be
> > Kombi's so its not too bad.
> >
> > After that there is the VW Kombi World record attempt up at Taree
> > which there is usually a few syncros at.
> >
> > Let me know if you want any further details.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Scott
> > Terrigal
> >
> > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "William Mattholie"
> > <billmattholie@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi guys, got a few basic queries for you.
> > >
> > > Is removing the prop shaft a simple way to save some fuel when
your
> > not planning on going
> > > off road? Or does it cause probs with the VC coupling.
> > >
> > > My 89' with 311000 km van has the original coupling in it. I
think
> > the previous owner had the
> > > prop shaft out a lot of the time but what happens to the fluid
over
> > 20 yrs of on and off use?
> > >
> > > And is there a meet happening around Sydney sometime?
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Bill
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Mark Kofahl
> Solutions Outsourced Pty Ltd
> Main: 1300 33 1000
> Direct: 02 9375 2747
> Mobile: 0419 275 259
> Skype: markkofahl
>
> www.solutionsoutsourced.com.au
> www.siteflex.com.au
>
> 16 View Street, Camden, NSW, 2570
> PO Box 658, Camden, NSW, 2570
>
>
>
>
> =======================================
> This e-mail, including all attachments, may be confidential or
privileged.
> Confidentiality or privilege is not waived or lost because this
email has
> been sent to you in error. If you are not the intended recipient,
any use,
> disclosure or copying of this email is prohibited. If you have
received it
> in error please notify the sender immediately by reply email and
destroy all
> copies of this email and any attachments. All liability for direct
and
> indirect loss arising from this email and any attachments is hereby
> disclaimed to the extent permitted by law. Any views or opinions
presented
> are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent
those of
> Solutions Outsourced Pty Ltd.
>
13
Gday Stuart,

Welcome to the real world of decoupler/hard shaft combination for the
syncro, a super configuration indeed.

I've been told there are others about in Oz, but so far associated in
some way with this syncro group, I'm only aware of yours, mine and
Rudi's.

Please let us all know if you hear of any others ok.

Cheers.

Ken


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Parry" <stuart@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Les,
>
>
>
> So you got a decoupler just to turn tight corners? That's an expensive
> luxury.
>
>
>
> Haven't spoken to you since I fitted mine but I pretty much only use
the 4WD
> on the sand these days. I got rid of the VC entirely and replaced it
with
> one of those solid shaft connectors. It's just a feeling but I really
think
> the van runs better and more easily in 2WD on the sealed road trips.
> wouldn't go back unless I used it offroad all the time.
>
>
>
> Those petrol usage figures are amazing . especially given your VC
isn't in
> good condition. Mine was in similarly bad condition and I would say
that
> the economy is noticeably better with the 2WD option... although I
haven't
> done the stats like you did.
>
>
>
> Anyway, thought I'd share the info.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Stu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Les Harris
> Sent: Friday, 22 August 2008 10:09 AM
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] New owners questions...
>
>
>
> Bill,
>
>
>
> As Gary has mentioned, I have tested fuel consumption.
>
>
>
> The matter of fuel consumption in 2WD versus 4WD has drawn a lot of
> conflicting comment over the years on all of the world's Syncro
websites, so
> I run a fuel consumption test over 30,000 km where the running
conditions
> had better than 98% identicality. The results showed that the
consumption
> in 4WD was better than in 2WD by a very slight margin.
>
>
>
> I discussed the results with colleagues, looking for reasons why. A
lot of
> the small possible factors that came up were most equivocal but one
> significant factor emerged. A powertrain engineer colleague told me
that a
> hypoid crownwheel and pinion absorbs more power when it is being
driven than
> when it is driving and this can be measured on a transmission
dynamometer.
>
>
>
> As Volkspower suggests, running without drive to the front axle
reverses the
> load on the front diff and pinion bearing. Whilst it would need
> comprehensive testing to establish whether this is detrimental or not,
I
> would suggest that running it in the driving mode is the safer way to
go.
>
>
>
> When running decoupled (decoupler or driveshaft removed), the VC is
not
> doing anything and is not subjected to wear and tear. One of the
world's
> prominent Syncro people is Derek Drew. Amongst a lot of significant
things,
> Derek had derived a test for the VC. I will send it to you by direct
email
> and you can determine the state of your VC.
>
>
>
> The Syncro system was designed to run full time 4WD and I have found
the
> handling and grip to be discernibly better in 4WD than 2WD, even on
dry
> highway surfaces. As the surfaces deteriorate, through wet bitumen to
dirt
> roads to gravel to very poor grip surfaces, the benefits of the full
time
> 4WD became progressively more apparent.
>
>
>
> My VC is on the aggressive side due to the fact that the original
owner ran
> dissimilar size tyres front and rear. (This is absolutely guaranteed
to
> destroy the VC in sort order.) I have a decoupler but use it only when
> doing full lock turns on high grip surfaces; for all other running, it
stays
> in 4WD.
>
>
>
> Les
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: William Mattholie <mailto:billmattholie@...
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> @yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 9:53 PM
>
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] New owners questions...
>
>
>
> Hi guys, got a few basic queries for you.
>
> Is removing the prop shaft a simple way to save some fuel when your
not
> planning on going
> off road? Or does it cause probs with the VC coupling.
>
> My 89' with 311000 km van has the original coupling in it. I think the
> previous owner had the
> prop shaft out a lot of the time but what happens to the fluid over 20
yrs
> of on and off use?
>
> And is there a meet happening around Sydney sometime?
>
> Cheers
> Bill
>
14
RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: New owners questions...

Great thanks Mark, apart from being robbed in Barcelona - but you get that. One bonus was that we had a Golf GT TDI manual as a hire car at one stage, a great drive. The other highlight was staying in a small village in the south of France when la Tour de France just happened to go by the front door. And your trip? How is the Tiguan BTW?

Cheers Murray


-----Original Message-----
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Mark Kofahl
Sent: Fri 8/22/2008 12:05 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: New owners questions...

Hi Scott / Murray

Been a bit out of the loop - only just back from O/S - can you advise the
14/9 details of Hunter Cruise?

Murray - how was your big o/s trip?

Regards
Mark.


On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Murray Lee <murray.lee@usyd.edu.au> wrote:

>    Hi Scott,
>
> We may be interested, could you forward any details to
> murray.lee@usyd.edu.au? We are either in Newcastle that weekend or the one
> before so if the planets were to align...
>
> Cheers Murray
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Scott
> Sent: Fri 8/22/2008 11:23 AM
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: New owners questions...
>
> Bill,
>
> It is not really a Syncro meet or an off-road expedition for tha
> matter, but I am a member of the kombi Klub of Australia as well and
> there is a small cruise planned for Sunday, September 14, 08 up to
> the Hunter Valley Gardens if you or any other Syncros are interested.
>
> I think I have managed to convince my Dad to bring my Mum and his
> Syncro up for the day - to play with the Gran-kids, so hopefully
> there will be at least 2 syncros there - the rest will still be
> Kombi's so its not too bad.
>
> After that there is the VW Kombi World record attempt up at Taree
> which there is usually a few syncros at.
>
> Let me know if you want any further details.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Scott
> Terrigal
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "William Mattholie"
> <billmattholie@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi guys, got a few basic queries for you.
> >
> > Is removing the prop shaft a simple way to save some fuel when your
> not planning on going
> > off road? Or does it cause probs with the VC coupling.
> >
> > My 89' with 311000 km van has the original coupling in it. I think
> the previous owner had the
> > prop shaft out a lot of the time but what happens to the fluid over
> 20 yrs of on and off use?
> >
> > And is there a meet happening around Sydney sometime?
> >
> > Cheers
> > Bill
> >
>
>
>
>  
>



--
Mark Kofahl
Solutions Outsourced Pty Ltd
Main: 1300 33 1000
Direct: 02 9375 2747
Mobile: 0419 275 259
Skype: markkofahl

www.solutionsoutsourced.com.au
www.siteflex.com.au

16 View Street, Camden, NSW, 2570
PO Box 658, Camden, NSW, 2570




=======================================
This e-mail, including all attachments, may be confidential or privileged.
Confidentiality or privilege is not waived or lost because this email has
been sent to you in error. If you are not the intended recipient, any use,
disclosure or copying of this email is prohibited. If you have received it
in error please notify the sender immediately by reply email and destroy all
copies of this email and any attachments. All liability for direct and
indirect loss arising from this email and any attachments is hereby
disclaimed to the extent permitted by law. Any views or opinions presented
are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of
Solutions Outsourced Pty Ltd.