Gday Les, Roger and ALL,
Reading the article, I was tending to think his references to anti-freeze and coolant were perhaps inferring 2 separate products, I assume both necessary additions and mix proportions for colder climatic conditions, unlike the combined product we have and use here in Oz. Perhaps the anti-freeze component plays a much more important role wherever he was, UK? But heh, I could easily be wrong on all this.
In my transporter instruction manual, it clearly states a minimum coolant content of 40%.
Coincidentally Les, I also read the article concerning the standpipe method you mentioned, which is described and pictured here:http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=234192&postdays=0&postorder=asc
This got me thinking about what might suit me in terms of making a standpipe so that I would be prepared for trying this new method whenever my next coolant change is due or else, for recovering from a coolant loss event whilst away on a trip.
I've since been tinkering and now made something similar but different and without the need to go out and purchase anything at all ... it's been cobbled together from bits & pieces unearthed at home.
As far as design goes, it occurred to me that whereas they used special purchase rubber adaptor and metal ties to marry the standpipe to fit and seal the screw thread top of the expansion bottle, then why not simply make a standpipe that incorporates an expansion cap in the first place. A guaranteed quick install and coolant seal all in one go .... sweet.
Also I thought ... as the expansion cap has an inbuilt vent outlet, fitting a venting/draining tube is a doddle.
Also I thought ... to help limit the standpipe height and still get the inlet end well above the radiator bleed screw level, just park the van with the front down a bit of a slope, this achieves the same thing and enables a shorter standpipe, making for easier storage in the van.
Also I thought ... with the standpipe being a solid colour, it's not at all easy to observe the changing coolant level in the standpipe at any time, especially should it ever start backcharging. In my view, quickly seeing what's going on in the standpipe during this procedure is essential. So I used a see through solution. Rather than calling it a standpipe, mine is more accurately described as a "header tank". It's a clear plastic 4L Mineral Turps container. See the attached pics.
Happily ... as a bonus ... the header tank is a neat fit in the spare wheel rim void and weighs in at almost nothing.
Worldwide patents are pending.
A couple of questions someone may know the answers to ....
If using this alternate method (engine off and thermostat fully closed), when starting to re-fill the previously drained cooling system, how much of the 17.5 litres of coolant will gravitate in before having to start the motor to complete the fill? (need to get the thermostat open).
Assuming the closed thermostat prevents portions of the system being gravity re-filled, does this mean the coolant system around the heads could be empty while the motor is running, waiting for the thermostat to open? Perhaps the fact no one bothers to remove the drain bolts adjacent to the cylinder heads, maybe that means old coolant is still present anyway. Any thoughts please? TIA.
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:27:52 +1000
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] re: Bleeding the Cooling System
I have observed two methods of filling a T3 system from empty and neither involve raising the front or bleeding the radiator top vent.
The first method involved a purpose made standpipe that snapped on to the header tank. The standpipe was about 18” long and the top became the highest point in the system. The coolant was poured in with the engine off until the header tank was full, then the engine run just above idle. This caused the level to drop and coolant was continuously added until the tank was full again. Then the engine was run around 2000 RPM and coolant added as the level dropped. When the header tank dropped to the MAX line but no further, the job was done.
The second was the same but did not use the standpipe. The person doing the filling has run a VW place for 25 years and he said that the system was self-bleeding. It worked in any event. He also mentioned something that I have never seen mentioned anywhere else, and that is that the air bleed hole in the thermostat is “pathetically small”. He has found that air pocket problems have been caused by the air bleed hole becoming blocked so he routinely drills it out to double the size.
Since I have never had my cooling system apart, I have not done either of the above methods myself but have observed both methods applied to my Syncro.
I would agree that the Brickyard writer is using some terms interchangeably. A 30% mix is more than high enough for Australia and ample for anti-corrosion protection.
From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Roger Bell
Sent: 24 August 2009 01:50
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] re: Bleeding the Cooling System
Thanks for posting this-I find such articles useful and enjoy the writing style of this one.
Do you interpret the author using antifreeze as the neat undiluted product, and coolant as the made up diluted product ie ? He talks of "pour in neat antifreeze first" and also that 16litres of coolant needs 8 litres of antifreeze for a 50/50 mix. I can't quite reconcile this with filling up with neat antifreeze and then topping up with coolant if the final contents of the cooling system should end up 50/50 antifreeze/( distilled) water.
Even 50/50 coolant seems questionable according to my coolant bottle which recomends 2parts water to 1 part antifreeze as strong enough for protection down to -20C which should be adequate here and even the UK home of the author. 50/50 is for temperatures of - 40C which we don't get an awful lot of even in Melbourne!
I'm begining to think perhaps it is rocket science but the mechanical side of what he describes seems sound and simple enough - he just seems a little arbitary with his use of the terms coolant and antifreeze. Or am I just becoming a grumpy old pedant?
--- On Sat, 22/8/09, unclekenz <unclekenz@hotmail. com> wrote:
From: unclekenz <unclekenz@hotmail. com>
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] re: Bleeding the Cooling System
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Received: Saturday, 22 August, 2009, 7:14 PM
For hands-on syncro owners, I think the following article describing a single person alternate procedure for cooling system maintenance is well worth a read. It's certainly different to VW's and Bentleys prescribed method which generally is best done with 2 persons or else at least a well practiced single operator.
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