re: Don't roll or bu mp start y our syncro in revers e‏

1
ALL,
A current US Syncro forum topic with acknowledgements to contributors, food for thought ....
 
Topic Post: Don't roll or bump start your syncro in reverse‏
I have a 1990 Syncro with an Adventure Wagon camper. About 3 years ago I was in a very remote area with a dead battery. At that time I was very lucky to start the engine by rolling in reverse. I have a few questions.
 
Was I lucky to beat the odds and have no apparent damage? The battery was dead because I left the lights on and the Syncro does not have an alarm to warn me of my error. Over the past 20 years I have done this at least 3 times.
 
How difficult is it to install an alarm when the lights are on?
 
Besides the main battery for the van my conversion has 2 deep cycle 6 volt Trojan batteries just for use in the camper and separated by a solenoid from the main system. On one occasion I tried to start the van by using jumper cables from these deep cycle batteries to start the van but it did not work. Why would this not work?   Jim Wilson 
 
Reply 1
Three possible reasons.  First, did you take into account that your aux/house batteries are 6v in series?  Or did you try to jump from just one battery? Second, your aux batteries were not charged.  And third, and likely, is that you didn't get a good connection with the jumper cables because the clamps were corroded/dirty or they were inexpensive jumper cables with way to much resistance in them.  The latter two reasons are a common problem using jumper cables.   I've jumped from my aux to my starter battery and actually run on the aux battery many miles until I could get to a place where I could fix an alternator that had quit charging.  Loren Busch

Reply 2 The first time I did that (compression start in reverse) it cost me a tranny rebuild, about $2K.
I had an engine with 10:1 compression which likely exacerbated this happening, but it is recommended to never try to compression start a Syncro in anything but 2nd or 3rd and of course, going forward. You're a lucky dog and may have a "tired" engine that does not put much compression stress on the tranny in that situation.

I've started my van by jumping the main battery with the aux battery a few times without any trouble so am not sure what problem you are having. A suggestion: install a Sure Power 1315 Battery Separator and if installed properly, and your "house" battery has sufficient oomph, you'll never know if your main battery is low as the 1315 will automatically switch to the house battery for starting. Nice feature. Bob Stevens
   

 
Reply 3
IMHO If you have to bump start, use first gear, this is the strongest being right next to the pinion bearing or second for the higher ratio cranking, I would not recommend using 3rd as the teeth on this gear are quite fine. Granny and Reverse can't be used safely because they are hung out the front of the transmission a long way from the crown and pinion mesh and the intermediate housing is just not strong enough, the reverse idler gear in particular being supported by a shaft held by only a few mm of aluminium case, this is what usually breaks out.  Aidan Talbot

 
Reply 4

Don’t EVER compression start a Syncro in Reverse OR Granny..The forces created can blow the rev idler gears out the bottom of the case…Not a pretty sight and very expensive…Use 2nd or 3rd.  Daryl Christensen

 

So which IS the safest gear (tranny wise) for bump starting ... 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th?

 

Cheers.

Ken


Australia's #1 job site If it exists, you'll find it on SEEK.
2
Plenty of food for thought and yep the internet is certainly a great place to become hopelessly confused. I like it how Aidan has gone on to explain why he would choose first gear and having the exceptional knowledge and experience of the inner workings of these transaxles would not hesitate taking his advice for a second. I assume if one has seen and repaired so many grenaded gearboxes over the years one must have some idea as to which gears are strongest/weakest.

As for the battery issue. You need to do some research on why your current set up isn't working to avoid future problems. Deep cycle batteries have a large reserve capacity (rc) but lack in cold cranking amps (cca). How much power do your electrical aplliances draw? I had a 12v trojan with 80ah in the back of my 2 liter kombi and barely had enough cranking power to start my newly rebuilt motor with the natural loss of power through jumper leads. Ofcourse a dual battery system will allow you to switch between batteries with much less resistance than using jump leads

Knowing the output of your alternator is also important. I met a couple travelling around australia in a 1600 kombi who had a problem with their battery going flat all the time. Turns out their poor little alternator simply could not keep up with all the power their boom box, fridge, lights were drawing.

As an additional back up you could buy a good jump starter kit for remote trips. These batteries hold their charge for a very long time. A real life saver and don't cost the world.

 


To: syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com
From: unclekenz@hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 10:50:27 +1100
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] re: Don't roll or bump start your syncro in reverse‏

 
ALL,
A current US Syncro forum topic with acknowledgements to contributors, food for thought ....
 
Topic Post: Don't roll or bump start your syncro in reverse‏
I have a 1990 Syncro with an Adventure Wagon camper. About 3 years ago I was in a very remote area with a dead battery. At that time I was very lucky to start the engine by rolling in reverse. I have a few questions.
 
Was I lucky to beat the odds and have no apparent damage? The battery was dead because I left the lights on and the Syncro does not have an alarm to warn me of my error. Over the past 20 years I have done this at least 3 times.
 
How difficult is it to install an alarm when the lights are on?
 
Besides the main battery for the van my conversion has 2 deep cycle 6 volt Trojan batteries just for use in the camper and separated by a solenoid from the main system. On one occasion I tried to start the van by using jumper cables from these deep cycle batteries to start the van but it did not work. Why would this not work?   Jim Wilson 
 
Reply 1
Three possible reasons.  First, did you take into account that your aux/house batteries are 6v in series?  Or did you try to jump from just one battery? Second, your aux batteries were not charged.  And third, and likely, is that you didn't get a good connection with the jumper cables because the clamps were corroded/dirty or they were inexpensive jumper cables with way to much resistance in them.  The latter two reasons are a common problem using jumper cables.   I've jumped from my aux to my starter battery and actually run on the aux battery many miles until I could get to a place where I could fix an alternator that had quit charging.  Loren Busch

Reply 2 The first time I did that (compression start in reverse) it cost me a tranny rebuild, about $2K.
I had an engine with 10:1 compression which likely exacerbated this happening, but it is recommended to never try to compression start a Syncro in anything but 2nd or 3rd and of course, going forward. You're a lucky dog and may have a "tired" engine that does not put much compression stress on the tranny in that situation.

I've started my van by jumping the main battery with the aux battery a few times without any trouble so am not sure what problem you are having. A suggestion: install a Sure Power 1315 Battery Separator and if installed properly, and your "house" battery has sufficient oomph, you'll never know if your main battery is low as the 1315 will automatically switch to the house battery for starting. Nice feature. Bob Stevens
   

 
Reply 3
IMHO If you have to bump start, use first gear, this is the strongest being right next to the pinion bearing or second for the higher ratio cranking, I would not recommend using 3rd as the teeth on this gear are quite fine. Granny and Reverse can't be used safely because they are hung out the front of the transmission a long way from the crown and pinion mesh and the intermediate housing is just not strong enough, the reverse idler gear in particular being supported by a shaft held by only a few mm of aluminium case, this is what usually breaks out.  Aidan Talbot

 
Reply 4

Don’t EVER compression start a Syncro in Reverse OR Granny..The forces created can blow the rev idler gears out the bottom of the case…Not a pretty sight and very expensive…Use 2nd or 3rd.  Daryl Christensen

 

So which IS the safest gear (tranny wise) for bump starting ... 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th?

 

Cheers.

Ken


Australia's #1 job site If it exists, you'll find it on SEEK.

Find your next place with Ninemsn property Looking for a place to rent, share or buy?
3
Ken,

Answer #4 is from probably the top Syncro transaxle rebuilder here in
the States (AA transaxle), so I think you'll be safe following his advice.

Cheers,
Larry Hamm

Ken Garratt wrote:
>
>
> ALL,
> A current US Syncro forum topic with acknowledgements to contributors,
> food for thought ....
> **
> *Topic Post: Don't roll or bump start your syncro in reverse‏
> *I have a 1990 Syncro with an Adventure Wagon camper. About 3 years
> ago I was in a very remote area with a dead battery. At that time I
> was very lucky to start the engine by rolling in reverse. I have a few
> questions.
>
> Was I lucky to beat the odds and have no apparent damage? The battery
> was dead because I left the lights on and the Syncro does not have an
> alarm to warn me of my error. Over the past 20 years I have done this
> at least 3 times.
>
> How difficult is it to install an alarm when the lights are on?
>
> Besides the main battery for the van my conversion has 2 deep cycle 6
> volt Trojan batteries just for use in the camper and separated by a
> solenoid from the main system. On one occasion I tried to start the
> van by using jumper cables from these deep cycle batteries to start
> the van but it did not work. Why would this not work? *Jim Wilson*
>
> *Reply 1*
> Three possible reasons. First, did you take into account that your
> aux/house batteries are 6v in series? Or did you try to jump from
> just one battery? Second, your aux batteries were not charged. And
> third, and likely, is that you didn't get a good connection with the
> jumper cables because the clamps were corroded/dirty or they were
> inexpensive jumper cables with way to much resistance in them. The
> latter two reasons are a common problem using jumper cables. I've
> jumped from my aux to my starter battery and actually run on the aux
> battery many miles until I could get to a place where I could fix an
> alternator that had quit charging. *Loren Busch*
>
> **Reply 2** The first time I did that (compression start in reverse)
> it cost me a tranny rebuild, about $2K.
> I had an engine with 10:1 compression which likely exacerbated this
> happening, but it is recommended to never try to compression start a
> Syncro in anything but *2nd or 3rd *and of course, going forward.
> You're a lucky dog and may have a "tired" engine that does not put
> much compression stress on the tranny in that situation.
>
> I've started my van by jumping the main battery with the aux battery a
> few times without any trouble so am not sure what problem you are
> having. A suggestion: install a Sure Power 1315 Battery Separator and
> if installed properly, and your "house" battery has sufficient oomph,
> you'll never know if your main battery is low as the 1315 will
> automatically switch to the house battery for starting. Nice feature.
> *Bob Stevens** *
>
> **
> **Reply 3**
> IMHO If you have to bump start, use *first* gear, this is the
> strongest being right next to the pinion bearing or second for the
> higher ratio cranking, I would not recommend using *3rd* as the teeth
> on this gear are quite fine. Granny and Reverse can't be used safely
> because they are hung out the front of the transmission a long way
> from the crown and pinion mesh and the intermediate housing is just
> not strong enough, the reverse idler gear in particular being
> supported by a shaft held by only a few mm of aluminium case, this is
> what usually breaks out. *Aidan Talbot *
>
>
> **Reply 4**
>
> Don’t EVER compression start a Syncro in Reverse OR Granny..The forces
> created can blow the rev idler gears out the bottom of the case…Not a
> pretty sight and very expensive…Use *2^nd or 3rd*. *Daryl Christensen*
>
>
>
> So which IS the safest gear (tranny wise) for bump starting ... 1st,
> 2nd, 3rd or 4th?
>
>
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Australia's #1 job site If it exists, you'll find it on SEEK.
> <http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157639755/direct/01/>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2683 - Release Date: 02/12/10 00:35:00
>
>
4

Ken,

I am totally bogged down in a project at the moment and not answering anything but I can assure you that Daryl is 100% right. I will add technical details later. When Daryl says that gears get blown clean through the casing, he’s not kidding!

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Hamm
Sent: 13 February 2010 17:18
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] re: Don't roll or bump start your syncro in reverse‏

 

 

Ken,

Answer #4 is from probably the top Syncro transaxle rebuilder here in
the States (AA transaxle), so I think you'll be safe following his advice.

Cheers,
Larry Hamm

Ken Garratt wrote:

> **Reply 3**
> IMHO If you have to bump start, use *first* gear, this is the
> strongest being right next to the pinion bearing or second for the
> higher ratio cranking, I would not recommend using *3rd* as the teeth
> on this gear are quite fine. Granny and Reverse can't be used safely
> because they are hung out the front of the transmission a long way
> from the crown and pinion mesh and the intermediate housing is just
> not strong enough, the reverse idler gear in particular being
> supported by a shaft held by only a few mm of aluminium case, this is
> what usually breaks out. *Aidan Talbot *
>
>
> **Reply 4**
>
> Don’t EVER compression start a Syncro in Reverse OR Granny.

The forces created can blow the rev idler gears out the bottom of the case…Not a pretty sight and very expensive…Use *2^nd or 3rd*. *Daryl Christensen*

>

>
>
> So which IS the safest gear (tranny wise) for bump starting ... 1st,
> 2nd, 3rd or 4th?
>
>
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> Australia 's #1 job site If it exists, you'll find it on SEEK.
> <http://clk.atdmt. com/NMN/go/ 157639755/ direct/01/>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2683 - Release Date: 02/12/10
00:35:00
>
>

5
On Feb 12, 2010, at 10:18 PM, Larry Hamm <Patlar@hughes.net> wrote:

> Ken,
>
> Answer #4 is from probably the top Syncro transaxle rebuilder here in
> the States (AA transaxle), so I think you'll be safe following his
> advice.
>
> Cheers,
> Larry Hamm



I will have to second Larry on this. If anyone on this planet is
rebuilding a Syncro transaxle for me, it will be the fellow who gave
answer #4.

I've broken the rules many times as far as roll starting my Syncro 16
several dozen times over the past 10 years. As Scott pointed out,
catch and release. I use second everytime. Haven't broken a transaxle
yet in any of my cars.


BenT
6
Gday Erik,
Thanks for the post, interesting.
 
Ok so Aiden Talbot gets your vote for 1st gear, Larry Hamm votes for Daryl Christensen with 2nd and 3rd.
Any chance of a no holds barred fisticuffs beween Aiden and Daryl?  I mean really, it would be handy to know one way or the other for sure for all our benefit, yes? I'm more than happy to avoid G & R, but I'd just like to go the next step ... ascertain THE top gear for bump starting ... after all, it's a top billing issue, especially when Aiden implies an issue with 3rd gear as well.
 
Concerning my battery topic posts, as I plainly stated this past week, my research confirms my syncro is a fully paid up member of SESSIG. Did you not pick up on that? That is my first priority to resolve battery energy loss. If do-able, then I'll sort that out first and then reassess after trialling further. My Trakka vans main consumer of energy remains the fridge. By comparison, my other onboard loads are inconsequential.
 
The 2.1 WBX run 90 amp alterators, adding smart technology to it offers worthwhile added output speed and quantity. Comes at a hefty price though for quality models. Conversely, re your comments, I believe T2s max out at 55 or 70 amp alternators/generators. Bit of a difference?
 
Re your comments about batteries, sorry you've lost me on this one.  Are you interpreting I have a deep cycle starting battery?
 
Concerning your comments re rc and cca, care to suggest then what you believe a satisfactory rc and cca spec to aim for in our T3 syncro starting batteries? I have no idea what everyone else is running re starting battery specs.
 
Yes I agree carrying an emergency jump starter would be nice, I just wonder who or what it might displace to fit it in.
 
Cheers.
 
Ken
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

To: syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com
From: erikhoeflinger@hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:13:38 +1030
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] re: Don't roll or bump start your syncro in reverse‏

 
Plenty of food for thought and yep the internet is certainly a great place to become hopelessly confused. I like it how Aidan has gone on to explain why he would choose first gear and having the exceptional knowledge and experience of the inner workings of these transaxles would not hesitate taking his advice for a second. I assume if one has seen and repaired so many grenaded gearboxes over the years one must have some idea as to which gears are strongest/weakest.

As for the battery issue. You need to do some research on why your current set up isn't working to avoid future problems. Deep cycle batteries have a large reserve capacity (rc) but lack in cold cranking amps (cca). How much power do your electrical aplliances draw? I had a 12v trojan with 80ah in the back of my 2 liter kombi and barely had enough cranking power to start my newly rebuilt motor with the natural loss of power through jumper leads. Ofcourse a dual battery system will allow you to switch between batteries with much less resistance than using jump leads

Knowing the output of your alternator is also important. I met a couple travelling around australia in a 1600 kombi who had a problem with their battery going flat all the time. Turns out their poor little alternator simply could not keep up with all the power their boom box, fridge, lights were drawing.

As an additional back up you could buy a good jump starter kit for remote trips. These batteries hold their charge for a very long time. A real life saver and don't cost the world.

 


To: syncro_t3_australia @yahoogroups. com
From: unclekenz@hotmail. com
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 10:50:27 +1100
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] re: Don't roll or bump start your syncro in reverse‏

 
ALL,
A current US Syncro forum topic with acknowledgements to contributors, food for thought ....
 
Topic Post: Don't roll or bump start your syncro in reverse‏
I have a 1990 Syncro with an Adventure Wagon camper. About 3 years ago I was in a very remote area with a dead battery. At that time I was very lucky to start the engine by rolling in reverse. I have a few questions.
 
Was I lucky to beat the odds and have no apparent damage? The battery was dead because I left the lights on and the Syncro does not have an alarm to warn me of my error. Over the past 20 years I have done this at least 3 times.
 
How difficult is it to install an alarm when the lights are on?
 
Besides the main battery for the van my conversion has 2 deep cycle 6 volt Trojan batteries just for use in the camper and separated by a solenoid from the main system. On one occasion I tried to start the van by using jumper cables from these deep cycle batteries to start the van but it did not work. Why would this not work?   Jim Wilson 
 
Reply 1
Three possible reasons.  First, did you take into account that your aux/house batteries are 6v in series?  Or did you try to jump from just one battery? Second, your aux batteries were not charged.  And third, and likely, is that you didn't get a good connection with the jumper cables because the clamps were corroded/dirty or they were inexpensive jumper cables with way to much resistance in them.  The latter two reasons are a common problem using jumper cables.   I've jumped from my aux to my starter battery and actually run on the aux battery many miles until I could get to a place where I could fix an alternator that had quit charging.  Loren Busch

Reply 2 The first time I did that (compression start in reverse) it cost me a tranny rebuild, about $2K.
I had an engine with 10:1 compression which likely exacerbated this happening, but it is recommended to never try to compression start a Syncro in anything but 2nd or 3rd and of course, going forward. You're a lucky dog and may have a "tired" engine that does not put much compression stress on the tranny in that situation.

I've started my van by jumping the main battery with the aux battery a few times without any trouble so am not sure what problem you are having. A suggestion: install a Sure Power 1315 Battery Separator and if installed properly, and your "house" battery has sufficient oomph, you'll never know if your main battery is low as the 1315 will automatically switch to the house battery for starting. Nice feature. Bob Stevens
   

 
Reply 3
IMHO If you have to bump start, use first gear, this is the strongest being right next to the pinion bearing or second for the higher ratio cranking, I would not recommend using 3rd as the teeth on this gear are quite fine. Granny and Reverse can't be used safely because they are hung out the front of the transmission a long way from the crown and pinion mesh and the intermediate housing is just not strong enough, the reverse idler gear in particular being supported by a shaft held by only a few mm of aluminium case, this is what usually breaks out.  Aidan Talbot

 
Reply 4

Don’t EVER compression start a Syncro in Reverse OR Granny..The forces created can blow the rev idler gears out the bottom of the case…Not a pretty sight and very expensive…Use 2nd or 3rd.  Daryl Christensen

 

So which IS the safest gear (tranny wise) for bump starting ... 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th?

 

Cheers.

Ken


Australia's #1 job site If it exists, you'll find it on SEEK.

Find your next place with Ninemsn property Looking for a place to rent, share or buy?


Get straight to the Point Find a great deal on your next car.
7
Dual battery tip;

To help charge your auxillary battery faster, connect your dual battery isolator at the alternator. Connect any consumers at the isolator. It's Ohm's law.



> Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Gday Erik,
> Thanks for the post, interesting.
>
> Ok so Aiden Talbot gets your vote for 1st gear, Larry Hamm votes for
> Daryl Christensen with 2nd and 3rd.
> Any chance of a no holds barred fisticuffs beween Aiden and Daryl? I
> mean really, it would be handy to know one way or the other for sure for
> all our benefit, yes? I'm more than happy to avoid G & R, but I'd just
> like to go the next step ... ascertain THE top gear for bump starting
> ... after all, it's a top billing issue, especially when Aiden implies
> an issue with 3rd gear as well.
>
> Concerning my battery topic posts, as I plainly stated this past week,
> my research confirms my syncro is a fully paid up member of SESSIG. Did
> you not pick up on that? That is my first priority to resolve battery
> energy loss. If do-able, then I'll sort that out first and then reassess
> after trialling further. My Trakka vans main consumer of energy remains
> the fridge. By comparison, my other onboard loads are inconsequential.
>
> The 2.1 WBX run 90 amp alterators, adding smart technology to it offers
> worthwhile added output speed and quantity. Comes at a hefty price
> though for quality models. Conversely, re your comments, I believe T2s
> max out at 55 or 70 amp alternators/generators. Bit of a difference?
>
> Re your comments about batteries, sorry you've lost me on this one. Are
> you interpreting I have a deep cycle starting battery?
>
> Concerning your comments re rc and cca, care to suggest then what you
> believe a satisfactory rc and cca spec to aim for in our T3 syncro
> starting batteries? I have no idea what everyone else is running re
> starting battery specs.
>
> Yes I agree carrying an emergency jump starter would be nice, I just
> wonder who or what it might displace to fit it in.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To: syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: erikhoeflinger@hotmail.com
> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:13:38 +1030
> Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] re: Don't roll or bump start your
> syncro in reverse��
>
>
>
>
>
> Plenty of food for thought and yep the internet is certainly a great
> place to become hopelessly confused. I like it how Aidan has gone on to
> explain why he would choose first gear and having the exceptional
> knowledge and experience of the inner workings of these transaxles would
> not hesitate taking his advice for a second. I assume if one has seen
> and repaired so many grenaded gearboxes over the years one must have
> some idea as to which gears are strongest/weakest.
>
> As for the battery issue. You need to do some research on why your
> current set up isn't working to avoid future problems. Deep cycle
> batteries have a large reserve capacity (rc) but lack in cold cranking
> amps (cca). How much power do your electrical aplliances draw? I had a
> 12v trojan with 80ah in the back of my 2 liter kombi and barely had
> enough cranking power to start my newly rebuilt motor with the natural
> loss of power through jumper leads. Ofcourse a dual battery system will
> allow you to switch between batteries with much less resistance than
> using jump leads
>
> Knowing the output of your alternator is also important. I met a couple
> travelling around australia in a 1600 kombi who had a problem with their
> battery going flat all the time. Turns out their poor little alternator
> simply could not keep up with all the power their boom box, fridge,
> lights were drawing.
>
> As an additional back up you could buy a good jump starter kit for
> remote trips. These batteries hold their charge for a very long time. A
> real life saver and don't cost the world.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To: syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: unclekenz@hotmail.com
> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 10:50:27 +1100
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] re: Don't roll or bump start your syncro
> in reverse��
>
>
>
>
> ALL,
> A current US Syncro forum topic with acknowledgements to contributors,
> food for thought ....
>
> Topic Post: Don't roll or bump start your syncro in reverse��
> I have a 1990 Syncro with an Adventure Wagon camper. About 3 years ago I
> was in a very remote area with a dead battery. At that time I was very
> lucky to start the engine by rolling in reverse. I have a few questions.
>
> Was I lucky to beat the odds and have no apparent damage? The battery
> was dead because I left the lights on and the Syncro does not have an
> alarm to warn me of my error. Over the past 20 years I have done this at
> least 3 times.
>
> How difficult is it to install an alarm when the lights are on?
>
> Besides the main battery for the van my conversion has 2 deep cycle 6
> volt Trojan batteries just for use in the camper and separated by a
> solenoid from the main system. On one occasion I tried to start the van
> by using jumper cables from these deep cycle batteries to start the van
> but it did not work. Why would this not work? Jim Wilson
>
> Reply 1
>
> Three possible reasons. First, did you take into account that your
> aux/house batteries are 6v in series? Or did you try to jump from just
> one battery? Second, your aux batteries were not charged. And third,
> and likely, is that you didn't get a good connection with the jumper
> cables because the clamps were corroded/dirty or they were inexpensive
> jumper cables with way to much resistance in them. The latter two
> reasons are a common problem using jumper cables. I've jumped from my
> aux to my starter battery and actually run on the aux battery many miles
> until I could get to a place where I could fix an alternator that had
> quit charging. Loren Busch
>
> Reply 2 The first time I did that (compression start in reverse) it cost
> me a tranny rebuild, about $2K.
> I had an engine with 10:1 compression which likely exacerbated this
> happening, but it is recommended to never try to compression start a
> Syncro in anything but 2nd or 3rd and of course, going forward. You're a
> lucky dog and may have a "tired" engine that does not put much
> compression stress on the tranny in that situation.
>
>
> I've started my van by jumping the main battery with the aux battery a
> few times without any trouble so am not sure what problem you are
> having. A suggestion: install a Sure Power 1315 Battery Separator and if
> installed properly, and your "house" battery has sufficient oomph,
> you'll never know if your main battery is low as the 1315 will
> automatically switch to the house battery for starting. Nice feature.
> Bob Stevens
>
> Reply 3
> IMHO If you have to bump start, use first gear, this is the strongest
> being right next to the pinion bearing or second for the higher ratio
> cranking, I would not recommend using 3rd as the teeth on this gear are
> quite fine. Granny and Reverse can't be used safely because they are
> hung out the front of the transmission a long way from the crown and
> pinion mesh and the intermediate housing is just not strong enough, the
> reverse idler gear in particular being supported by a shaft held by only
> a few mm of aluminium case, this is what usually breaks out. Aidan
> Talbot
>
>
>
> Reply 4
> Don���t EVER compression start a Syncro in Reverse OR Granny..The forces
> created can blow the rev idler gears out the bottom of the case���Not a
> pretty sight and very expensive���Use 2nd or 3rd. Daryl Christensen
>
>
>
> So which IS the safest gear (tranny wise) for bump starting ... 1st,
> 2nd, 3rd or 4th?
>
> Cheers.
> Ken
>
>
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8
Phill,
Am I misunderstanding your tip?
For the camping battery, isn't a dual battery isolator normally the first link in the chain from the alternator anyway?
Are you inferring then that some people attach add-on consumers directly to the alternator, rather than after the isolator?
Ken
 
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: plander@optusnet.com.au
> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 04:56:47 +1100
> Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] re: Don't roll or bump start your syncro in reverse‏
>
> Dual battery tip;
>
> To help charge your auxillary battery faster, connect your dual battery isolator at the alternator. Connect any consumers at the isolator. It's Ohm's law.
>
Get straight to the Point Find a great deal on your next car.
9
> Phill,
>
> Am I misunderstanding your tip?
>

Yes.


Put the dual battery isolator physically close to the alternator.
Connect fridge etc at the isolator, not at the battery.

The cable to the aux. battery from the alternator is then only used to charge the battery (engine running) and nothing else.
10
Phill,

Ok thanks, I agree this is logical especially if piddling Trakka power
cables are still installed. Voltage drop etc plays an adverse role here.

Some time ago I upgraded all my auxiliary power and earth return cabling
re: alternator <-> isolator <->camping battery <-> fridge etc. So
despite longer cable runs, I believe this cabling would achieve what you
are suggesting anyway. For example, with my present cabling, the
specialist camping fridge proprietor who refurbished my fridge, load
tested my van cabling and he gave it a big tick. So really at this
point, my first priority is finding/resolving the ongoing current loss
issue.

On another matter, from memory, I think the stock voltage regulator in
the 90amp Bosch alternator maxxes out at about 14 volts. Do you agree
with that? Alternators in other vehicles seem to regulate higher. I
understand the smart charging kits that wire into the alternator circuit
manipulate regulation to achieve speedier and higher output, all done
without adverse effect to the alternator, as with John Figgis's setup.
So without going to the expense of such a smart charge kit, I've always
wondered whether there is room for a compromise ... find a regulator
that outputs marginally higher than the stock regulator. Both my
batteries can handle higher input and storage level, hence this thought.
Any comments on this? Also, are you aware of sources of exact fit
regulators that offer either higher fixed or adjustable setting
regulation?

Cheers. Ken


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
>
>
>
>
> > Phill,
> >
> > Am I misunderstanding your tip?
> >
>
> Yes.
>
>
> Put the dual battery isolator physically close to the alternator.
> Connect fridge etc at the isolator, not at the battery.
>
> The cable to the aux. battery from the alternator is then only used to
charge the battery (engine running) and nothing else.
>
11
Ken,
There is adjustable regulators, but I wouldn't bother. You have to be very careful with this type of thing as you can easily cook your batteries. Alternator regulators are set at a certain voltage for a reason. No matter what you do, you need to drive for many hours to charge a battery. If you try and charge a battery in 6 hours, it will get very hot. How often do you drive continuosly for 6 hours anyway? It is best to charge at 10+hours.

I hate the smell of battery gas!

The 14V is probably just a nominal voltage anyway.

Phill



> Ken <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Phill,
>
> Ok thanks, I agree this is logical especially if piddling Trakka power
> cables are still installed. Voltage drop etc plays an adverse role here.
>
> Some time ago I upgraded all my auxiliary power and earth return cabling
> re: alternator <-> isolator <->camping battery <-> fridge etc. So
> despite longer cable runs, I believe this cabling would achieve what you
> are suggesting anyway. For example, with my present cabling, the
> specialist camping fridge proprietor who refurbished my fridge, load
> tested my van cabling and he gave it a big tick. So really at this
> point, my first priority is finding/resolving the ongoing current loss
> issue.
>
> On another matter, from memory, I think the stock voltage regulator in
> the 90amp Bosch alternator maxxes out at about 14 volts. Do you agree
> with that? Alternators in other vehicles seem to regulate higher. I
> understand the smart charging kits that wire into the alternator circuit
> manipulate regulation to achieve speedier and higher output, all done
> without adverse effect to the alternator, as with John Figgis's setup.
> So without going to the expense of such a smart charge kit, I've always
> wondered whether there is room for a compromise ... find a regulator
> that outputs marginally higher than the stock regulator. Both my
> batteries can handle higher input and storage level, hence this thought.
> Any comments on this? Also, are you aware of sources of exact fit
> regulators that offer either higher fixed or adjustable setting
> regulation?
>
> Cheers. Ken
>
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Phill,
> > >
> > > Am I misunderstanding your tip?
> > >
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> >
> > Put the dual battery isolator physically close to the alternator.
> > Connect fridge etc at the isolator, not at the battery.
> >
> > The cable to the aux. battery from the alternator is then only used to
> charge the battery (engine running) and nothing else.
> >