This raises a rather important matter. Has anyone ever looked into the availability and cost of ECUs?
From:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ]
Sent: 27 December 2015 09:58
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re:
I had a similar issue with intermittent coil failure after a long high-speed run. The coil was too hot to touch. Worked fine again when it cooled down, drove fine around town, but failed again on the next expressway expedition. Replacement coil did the same thing. Checked the voltage to the +15 wire on the coil, as per the Bentley manual, and discovered that the problem was in the ECU. Replaced the black box and the problem was solved. Will post further information on the subject later today.
Roger B.
Mine carried on in a similar way and I added an earth strap that I had in my garage and the problem was solved.
It appears that with heat the resistance build-up and makes the engine fail until it cools again and the resistance dissipates.
Worth a try - it was a $0.00 fix for me.
Those old mesh earth straps are starting to struggle these days.
Cheers & Happy New Year,
Skot
I had a similar issue with intermittent coil failure after a long high-speed run. The coil was too hot to touch. Worked fine again when it cooled down, drove fine around town, but failed again on the next expressway expedition. Replacement coil did the same thing. Checked the voltage to the +15 wire on the coil, as per the Bentley manual, and discovered that the problem was in the ECU. Replaced the black box and the problem was solved. Will post further information on the subject later today.Roger B.
I am back on the job now having done with Christmas.
As mentioned earlier, I have installed a new coil and it made no
difference to the problem.
I will test the voltage to the +15 terminal on the coil. I don't yet
have a Bentley manual - (one arriving soon I hope) so I won't know what
the voltage is supposed to be.
And yes, I may need to replace the ECU and therefore will be looking for
one.
I still will replace the Temp 2 sensor with a known working one as
another step.
BTW. any member know of a mechanic/auto electrician in ADELAIDE who is
familiar with our vehicles.
S & T Automotive - particularly Silvano, was very good but the business
no longer exists.
Regards
Peter Leolkes
Adelaide
0457 822 453
On 2015-12-27 09:27, Roger Bayley gullyraker53@gmail.com
[Syncro_T3_Australia] wrote:
> I had a similar issue with intermittent coil failure after a long
> high-speed run. The coil was too hot to touch. Worked fine again when
> it cooled down, drove fine around town, but failed again on the next
> expressway expedition. Replacement coil did the same thing. Checked
> the voltage to the +15 wire on the coil, as per the Bentley manual,
> and discovered that the problem was in the ECU. Replaced the black box
> and the problem was solved. Will post further information on the
> subject later today.
> Roger B.
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Syncro_T3_Australia/conversations/messages/25785;_ylc=X3oDMTJyN2hnNWxvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMjY3MzE1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwOTkyNjI0MARtc2dJZAMyNTc4NQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE0NTExNzA2NjI-?act=reply&messageNum=25785
> [2]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Syncro_T3_Australia/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJmbThhYXA0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMjY3MzE1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwOTkyNjI0MARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzE0NTExNzA2NjI-
> [3]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Syncro_T3_Australia/conversations/topics/25785;_ylc=X3oDMTM3b2xiZ2c2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMjY3MzE1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwOTkyNjI0MARtc2dJZAMyNTc4NQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzE0NTExNzA2NjIEdHBjSWQDMjU3ODU-
> [4]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Syncro_T3_Australia/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdG00cTBnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMjY3MzE1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwOTkyNjI0MARzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzE0NTExNzA2NjI-
> [5]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Syncro_T3_Australia/photos/photostream;_ylc=X3oDMTJnNnQyMGFjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzMjY3MzE1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwOTkyNjI0MARzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2cGhvdARzdGltZQMxNDUxMTcwNjYy
> [6]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbGE5YWRzBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzEzMjY3MzE1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwOTkyNjI0MARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTQ1MTE3MDY2Mg--
> [7] https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html
> [8] https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/
Due to some extreme computer problems, I wasn’t able to get anything in the post to you before the Christmas shut-down. I have now retrieved just about everything and there will be a USB key going into the post first thing on Monday. There is half a gig of Syncro data on it so you should be quite well covered. If I later find anything else of relevance, I will send it.
Les
From:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ]
Sent: 27 December 2015 13:33
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia]
Re:
I will test the voltage to the +15 terminal on the coil. I don't yet
have a Bentley manual - (one arriving soon I hope) so I won't know what
the voltage is supposed to be.
Regards
Peter Leolkes
Adelaide
0457 822 453
On 27/12/2015, at 11:10 AM, Scott Pitcher spbconsulting@bigpond.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] wrote:Also its worth adding another earth strap as this is a common problem.
Mine carried on in a similar way and I added an earth strap that I had in my garage and the problem was solved.
It appears that with heat the resistance build-up and makes the engine fail until it cools again and the resistance dissipates.
Worth a try - it was a $0.00 fix for me.
Those old mesh earth straps are starting to struggle these days.
Cheers & Happy New Year,
Skot
On 27/12/2015 9:57 AM, Roger Bayley gullyraker53@gmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] wrote:
I had a similar issue with intermittent coil failure after a long high-speed run. The coil was too hot to touch. Worked fine again when it cooled down, drove fine around town, but failed again on the next expressway expedition. Replacement coil did the same thing. Checked the voltage to the +15 wire on the coil, as per the Bentley manual, and discovered that the problem was in the ECU. Replaced the black box and the problem was solved. Will post further information on the subject later today.Roger B.
No no, its just another main earth from the engine to the chassis.
Easy job - get a decent length earth cable from supercheap auto or repco or similar - pretty cheap and bolt one side to somewhere on the block where you can remove a bolt without causing any issues and then find a point on the chassis rail beside the engine where there is already a screw hole or if not drill a hole , clean off the surrounding paint to bare metal the size of a 5c piece and screw the other end into the chassis.
Made a massive difference to mine as many signals rely on good earths.
Definitely worth a try as it is cheap and easy.
Cheers,
Skot
An earth strap to what ?
The ECU?RegardsPeter Leolkes
On 27/12/2015, at 11:10 AM, Scott Pitcher spbconsulting@bigpond.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] wrote:
Also its worth adding another earth strap as this is a common problem.
Mine carried on in a similar way and I added an earth strap that I had in my garage and the problem was solved.
It appears that with heat the resistance build-up and makes the engine fail until it cools again and the resistance dissipates.
Worth a try - it was a $0.00 fix for me.
Those old mesh earth straps are starting to struggle these days.
Cheers & Happy New Year,
Skot
On 27/12/2015 9:57 AM, Roger Bayley gullyraker53@gmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] wrote:
I had a similar issue with intermittent coil failure after a long high-speed run. The coil was too hot to touch. Worked fine again when it cooled down, drove fine around town, but failed again on the next expressway expedition. Replacement coil did the same thing. Checked the voltage to the +15 wire on the coil, as per the Bentley manual, and discovered that the problem was in the ECU. Replaced the black box and the problem was solved. Will post further information on the subject later today.Roger B.
One addition: coat the newly bared patch with white petroleum jelly (Vaseline) before assembly. This keeps the air from contacting the bare metal and hence prevents rust, which can negate or diminish the earth path.
From:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ]
Sent: 27 December 2015 19:58
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia]
Re:
Peter,
No no, its just another main earth from the engine to the chassis.
Easy job - get a decent length earth cable from supercheap auto or repco or
similar - pretty cheap and bolt one side to somewhere on the block where you
can remove a bolt without causing any issues and then find a point on the
chassis rail beside the engine where there is already a screw hole or if not
drill a hole , clean off the surrounding paint to bare metal the size of a 5c
piece and screw the other end into the chassis.
Made a massive difference to mine as many signals rely on good earths.
Definitely worth a try as it is cheap and easy.
Cheers,
Skot
But there must be metal to metal contact or the earth strap is useless.
Cheers,
Skot
One addition: coat the newly bared patch with white petroleum jelly (Vaseline) before assembly. This keeps the air from contacting the bare metal and hence prevents rust, which can negate or diminish the earth path.
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ]
Sent: 27 December 2015 19:58
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re:
Peter,
No no, its just another main earth from the engine to the chassis.
Easy job - get a decent length earth cable from supercheap auto or repco or similar - pretty cheap and bolt one side to somewhere on the block where you can remove a bolt without causing any issues and then find a point on the chassis rail beside the engine where there is already a screw hole or if not drill a hole , clean off the surrounding paint to bare metal the size of a 5c piece and screw the other end into the chassis.
Made a massive difference to mine as many signals rely on good earths.
Definitely worth a try as it is cheap and easy.
Cheers,
Skot
That is a given. Bare metal is a good conductor and will remain so until corrosion develops. In vehicles of this age, corrosion is also a given!!
From:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ]
Sent: 27 December 2015 20:25
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia]
Re:
Very good point Les.
But there must be metal to metal contact or the earth strap is useless.
Cheers,
Skot
I use conductive grease from JayCar on all earth connections and battery ground.
Jon.
On 28 Dec 2015 08:23, "'Leslie Harris' leslieharris@optusnet.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia]" <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
That is a given. Bare metal is a good conductor and will remain so until corrosion develops. In vehicles of this age, corrosion is also a given!!
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 27 December 2015 20:25
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re:Very good point Les.
But there must be metal to metal contact or the earth strap is useless.
Cheers,
Skot
I am looking for tried and proven successful way of setting the
ignition timing.
I paid a mechanic to install a new distributor and he did the timing by
ear (not a bad job considering). However I want to get it perfect.
I have followed the Go Westy instructions as per attached but have come
across differing instructions including (Haynes P. 5B.6.) Some say
disconnect the temp 2 sensor and others say don't including Go Westy.
The other attachment is slightly different to Go Westy in terms of
distance from TDC.
Secondly do you know how to test whether the oxygen sensor is working? I
found a youtube video at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM2jO0_Cah0
Is there another way. I don't have any way of measuring CO.
Thanks in anticipation for any advice or assistance
Regards
Peter Leolkes
with 89 Syncro that cuts out at temperature, cranks over wont start no
spark from coil then after a rest starts again!! New coil, distributor,
plugs, leads, functional temp 2 sensor
Adelaide
Peter,
I have further information timing, which I will dig out and send to you in the morning. I am not at all well at the moment and can’t concentrate tonight.
L
From:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ]
Sent: 02 January 2016 19:54
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia]
ignition timing and testing oxygen sensor [2 Attachments]
Hello and
wishing you all a happy and healthy 2016!!
I am looking for tried and proven successful way of setting the
ignition timing.
I paid a mechanic to install a new distributor and he did the timing by
ear (not a bad job considering). However I want to get it perfect.
I have followed the Go Westy instructions as per attached but have come
across differing instructions including (Haynes P. 5B.6.) Some say
disconnect the temp 2 sensor and others say don't including Go Westy.
The other attachment is slightly different to Go Westy in terms of
distance from TDC.
Secondly do you know how to test whether the oxygen sensor is working? I
found a youtube video at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM2jO0_Cah0
Is there another way. I don't have any way of measuring CO.
Thanks in anticipation for any advice or assistance
Regards
Peter Leolkes
with 89 Syncro that cuts out at temperature, cranks over wont start no
spark from coil then after a rest starts again!! New coil, distributor,
plugs, leads, functional temp 2 sensor
Adelaide
With no thanks to Australia No-Post, you should have the USB key tomorrow.
In the VAG manual (not Bentleys) the Digifant ignition system starts on page 28-31. Ignition settings are shown on 28-37. Crankshaft pulley markings are shown on 28-39. Note that the radiused notch, as distinct from the V notch, is TDC.
In an email from Gregor not too long ago, he explains that the max advance can be set by running the engine at the engine RPM he specifies. He also gives a measurement so that you can mark the rim of the crankshaft pulley. NOTE THAT THE MEASUREMENTS START FROM THE TDC MARK. Office white out will create a perfect dot that shows up very clearly with a timing light.
I can’t access these emails at the moment due to the computer problems extant, which will take some time to rectify. If you can’t find the specific email, ask Gregor to resend it.
Setting it on the idle mark with a timing light will be very close and will be sufficient for diagnostic purposes.
Is your AFM lead OK? This is the one that can cause the Vanagon Syndrome and could be at the root of your problem.
Les
With no thanks to Australia No-Post, you should have the USB key tomorrow.
In the VAG manual (not Bentleys) the Digifant ignition system starts on page 28-31. Ignition settings are shown on 28-37. Crankshaft pulley markings are shown on 28-39. Note that the radiused notch, as distinct from the V notch, is TDC.
In an email from Gregor not too long ago, he explains that the max advance can be set by running the engine at the engine RPM he specifies. He also gives a measurement so that you can mark the rim of the crankshaft pulley. NOTE THAT THE MEASUREMENTS START FROM THE TDC MARK. Office white out will create a perfect dot that shows up very clearly with a timing light.
I can’t access these emails at the moment due to the computer problems extant, which will take some time to rectify. If you can’t find the specific email, ask Gregor to resend it.
Setting it on the idle mark with a timing light will be very close and will be sufficient for diagnostic purposes.
Is your AFM lead OK? This is the one that can cause the Vanagon Syndrome and could be at the root of your problem.
Les
On 03/01/2016, at 11:59 AM, Peter Leolkes pleolkes@bigbutton.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia] wrote:Thanks for all this Les. Greatly appreciated.
I haven't been able to find the email from Gregor that you refer to as yet.Sorry, but I don't understand "Setting it on the idle mark with a timing light". What/where is the idle mark?I will look through the sections that you specify in the VAG manual tomorrow when it arrives.I have decided to purchase a new Oxygen sensor as I don't think my van has ever had one and I read everywhere that they should be replaced approx. every 100,000 kms.After some coaxing and plenty of good old penetrene and a long ring spanner it came undone quite easily.I would like to test it anyway just out of curiosity.Just a question of where to get it from.Thanks againRegardsPeter LeolkesAdelaideOn 03/01/2016, at 9:16 AM, 'Leslie Harris' leslieharris@optusnet.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia] wrote:With no thanks to Australia No-Post, you should have the USB key tomorrow.
In the VAG manual (not Bentleys) the Digifant ignition system starts on page 28-31. Ignition settings are shown on 28-37. Crankshaft pulley markings are shown on 28-39. Note that the radiused notch, as distinct from the V notch, is TDC.
In an email from Gregor not too long ago, he explains that the max advance can be set by running the engine at the engine RPM he specifies. He also gives a measurement so that you can mark the rim of the crankshaft pulley. NOTE THAT THE MEASUREMENTS START FROM THE TDC MARK. Office white out will create a perfect dot that shows up very clearly with a timing light.
I can’t access these emails at the moment due to the computer problems extant, which will take some time to rectify. If you can’t find the specific email, ask Gregor to resend it.
Setting it on the idle mark with a timing light will be very close and will be sufficient for diagnostic purposes.
Is your AFM lead OK? This is the one that can cause the Vanagon Syndrome and could be at the root of your problem.
Les
Peter,
You have the Vanagon Syndrome covered, so that eliminates a variable.
When you get the USB key (when Australia Post gets past their privileged plethora of holidays and when they get around to it!!), all of this will make a lot more sense.
In the interim, the information below comes from my private notes. If you don’t know what an engine timing light process is, look it up on the Internet, where there will be plenty of information plus pretty pictures.
Fan Pulley Notches
(From Bentleys page 28.41)
The crankshaft pulley has two notches. On the inner flange of the alternator belt pulley (against the engine), there is a V notch. On the outer flange, there is a shallow depression.
The inner flange V notch is 50 before TDC.
The outer flange depression is TDC.
The outer flange shallow depression isn’t identified anywhere in Bentleys (see above illustration) and the owner is left guessing! (This follows the prevailing illogic of putting scraps of information all over the place!
Ignition Setting
Whilst Bentleys gives the correct workshop procedures for ignition setting, it fails to mention that it can also be set very simply by marking the 350 BTDC position on the pulley rim and using a strobe to check that this aligns with the crankcase split line at 3000RPM. (This figure does appear in the spec on page 28.41 but without any further explanation.)
Every 50 on the rim of the alternator pulley is equal to ¼ inch. (This has yet to be confirmed by accurate measurement.) Thirty degrees is therefore 1 and ¼” to the right of the five degree V notch.
The rotor arm in the distributor is aligned with the notch in the rim of the distributor body as usual.
From:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ]
Sent: 03 January 2016 13:41
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia]
Ignition Setting
Les
As far as the AFM (Air Flow M?) goes. Is that the Air flow sensor which measures the amount of air entering the intake manifold and sends a voltage signal to the ECU?
I don't know how to check whether it is ok. and yes I have that connector which needed to be installed to overcome Vanagon Syndrome.
Regards
Peter
I have just noticed an anomaly; the figure in the text below is 350 (but I have also seen 300 somewhere) while the range on page 28.41 of Bentleys gives a range of 30 to 40. More information is needed!
Until then, the idle at 50 is still a useful starting point.
Ignition Setting
Whilst Bentleys gives the correct workshop procedures for ignition setting, it fails to mention that it can also be set very simply by marking the 350 BTDC position on the pulley rim and using a strobe to check that this aligns with the crankcase split line at 3000RPM. (This figure does appear in the spec on page 28.41 but without any further explanation.)
Every 50 on the rim of the alternator pulley is equal to ¼ inch. (This has yet to be confirmed by accurate measurement.) Thirty degrees is therefore 1 and ¼” to the right of the five degree V notch.
-------- Original message --------
From: "'Leslie Harris' leslieharris@optusnet.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia]" <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 03/01/2016 6:23 PM (GMT+10:00)
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Ignition Setting
I have just noticed an anomaly; the figure in the text below is 350 (but I have also seen 300 somewhere) while the range on page 28.41 of Bentleys gives a range of 30 to 40. More information is needed!
Until then, the idle at 50 is still a useful starting point.
Ignition Setting
Whilst Bentleys gives the correct workshop procedures for ignition setting, it fails to mention that it can also be set very simply by marking the 350 BTDC position on the pulley rim and using a strobe to check that this aligns with the crankcase split line at 3000RPM. (This figure does appear in the spec on page 28.41 but without any further explanation.)
Every 50 on the rim of the alternator pulley is equal to ¼ inch. (This has yet to be confirmed by accurate measurement.) Thirty degrees is therefore 1 and ¼” to the right of the five degree V notch.
Ken,
Thanks for that; it confirms several other references.
There is still a nagging question. A range of 30 to 40 degrees is gigantic and does not make a lot of sense in an ECU that should be able to control timing to fractions of a degree.
It is fairly sure that Gregor will be able to tell us a lot more. He and Alice are probably taking a break somewhere so we will have to wait until he returns.
L
From:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ]
Sent: 03 January 2016 22:18
To: Syncro Australia Forum
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia]
Ignition Setting
Hi Les, Peter and all,
GoWesty makes a stick-on label that shows timing settings for WBX2.1motor...
Goto: http://www.gowesty.com/product-details.php?v=&id=23955&type=
Their fuller explanation about timing is here...
Goto: http://www.gowesty.com/tech-article-details.php?id=162
Might help.
Cheers.
Ken