Rust in Seams

1

Hi there experts. I have rust in the seams on the left rear side. On investigation after recent rain (alt last) I found water lying in that compartment behind the left rear tail light unit. Quite a bit there and it's that bottom edge where the rust is appearing on the outside. Also a bit higher up in the vertical seam. I am wondering where the moisture is getting in. No point getting the seams fixed and an expensive repaint unless I can find where the water gets in. BTW, Ken had an idea to hide a spare key in this spot in one of those magnetic cases as you can get at it with a phillips head screwdriver in case you lose your keys. The key inside had nearly completely rusted away. Shows I have a problem.

Has anyone else had this issue? See photos.

Peter from Port

2
Peter
This area is open to the weather via the air intake louvre behind the rear window. Any heavy rain or parking under an eave which is tipping water on to this location will do it.
And what you can see will be just the tip of the proverbial.
Peter

On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 at 21:35, peter@coeconsult.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi there experts. I have rust in the seams on the left rear side. On investigation after recent rain (alt last) I found water lying in that compartment behind the left rear tail light unit. Quite a bit there and it's that bottom edge where the rust is appearing on the outside. Also a bit higher up in the vertical seam. I am wondering where the moisture is getting in. No point getting the seams fixed and an expensive repaint unless I can find where the water gets in. BTW, Ken had an idea to hide a spare key in this spot in one of those magnetic cases as you can get at it with a phillips head screwdriver in case you lose your keys. The key inside had nearly completely rusted away. Shows I have a problem.

Has anyone else had this issue? See photos.

Peter from Port



--
Peter Bellamy

Mobile 0498 382 602


3

Noted Peter. I wonder if washing the car with a hose would also get water in there if you weren’t careful. Will see what my spray painter can come up with. First job will be to stabilise the rust so it stops spreading.

Cheers, Peter from Port

4

Peter. I also found this excellent post about this issue on the Samba site. Peter from Port

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=709539&highlight=water++pillar

5
The tray inside this area originally had a drain hole in the centre and did originally have a rubber type bung? This was possibly blocked and the tray flooded?
Peter

On Wed, 16 Oct. 2019, 1:58 pm 'Peter Coe' peter@coeconsult.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia], <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Noted Peter. I wonder if washing the car with a hose would also get water in there if you weren’t careful. Will see what my spray painter can come up with. First job will be to stabilise the rust so it stops spreading.

Cheers, Peter from Port

6

Hi Peter,

I totally agree that those trays behind the back wheel are a common culprit.

My last manual T3 had a rust hole in that area and had rust in that seam. It was parked for a while in a paddock facing up-hill so one side collected all the water.

Drilling extra drain holes would be a great idea.

Cheers,


Scott


On 16/10/2019 4:52 pm, 'Peter Coe' peter@coeconsult.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia] wrote:

Peter. I also found this excellent post about this issue on the Samba site. Peter from Port

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=709539&highlight=water++pillar

7

Thanks Scott. I did an interesting bit of research using ETOS. It shows a part called a rubber valve in that area (111 801 777). In mine and I suspect most there is an X pattern stamped into the metal in the bottom of the tray but no hole. Looks like it may have been for drainage. I believe in the diesel version this are held the battery. I wonder if it was a valve to stop water getting in through any holes while driving. I will investigate a solution to try and keep the area dry. Sadly I don’t have a garage for mine so its always going to be a challenge unless I put a big tarp over while its idle. Cheers, Peter

8

Hi Peter,

The diesel almost put the battery in there but its a bit to shallow for a battery of any decent size that could actually turn over an engine with high compression.


Basically, its a hollow spot that water can access and it is difficult to access to clean out.

Hence, it needs drainage - water can get in but cant escape if you are not driving.

Cheers,

Scott

On 17/10/2019 9:13 am, 'Peter Coe' peter@coeconsult.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia] wrote:

Thanks Scott. I did an interesting bit of research using ETOS. It shows a part called a rubber valve in that area (111 801 777). In mine and I suspect most there is an X pattern stamped into the metal in the bottom of the tray but no hole. Looks like it may have been for drainage. I believe in the diesel version this are held the battery. I wonder if it was a valve to stop water getting in through any holes while driving. I will investigate a solution to try and keep the area dry. Sadly I don’t have a garage for mine so its always going to be a challenge unless I put a big tarp over while its idle. Cheers, Peter

9
Peter you will never stop water entering that area as the vents are above there. Most vans will show more rust on the left seam than the right because when parked on a cambered road the water will pool there. If you park like this and remove the tail light you will see the lowest point and it’s not in the middle of the x. Drill a hole and paint the edges. 

Sent from Greg's iPhone

On 17 Oct 2019, at 2:29 pm, 'Peter Coe' peter@coeconsult.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  

Thanks Scott. I did an interesting bit of research using ETOS. It shows a part called a rubber valve in that area (111 801 777). In mine and I suspect most there is an X pattern stamped into the metal in the bottom of the tray but no hole. Looks like it may have been for drainage. I believe in the diesel version this are held the battery. I wonder if it was a valve to stop water getting in through any holes while driving. I will investigate a solution to try and keep the area dry. Sadly I don’t have a garage for mine so its always going to be a challenge unless I put a big tarp over while its idle. Cheers, Peter

10
Peter,
Sorry to hear of your leaks & rusty seams. I could have done a show & tell at Old Bar for you!

Dealing with that inside floor, and in particular wherever it abutts a horizontal or vertical joint or seam, I did what's done in shower recesses, applied 2 pack flexible HK Epoxy waterproofing ... same stuff as they used in wet areas in our capitals underground bunker for Australia's totally useless seat warmers.

Works well, done it years ago, do still get water in there from the vent but it eventually evaporates away. So not had to drill a drain hole in the floor.
Cheers.
Ken
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of peter@coeconsult.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 9:32:23 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Rust in Seams [2 Attachments]
 
 

Hi there experts. I have rust in the seams on the left rear side. On investigation after recent rain (alt last) I found water lying in that compartment behind the left rear tail light unit. Quite a bit there and it's that bottom edge where the rust is appearing on the outside. Also a bit higher up in the vertical seam. I am wondering where the moisture is getting in. No point getting the seams fixed and an expensive repaint unless I can find where the water gets in. BTW, Ken had an idea to hide a spare key in this spot in one of those magnetic cases as you can get at it with a phillips head screwdriver in case you lose your keys. The key inside had nearly completely rusted away. Shows I have a problem.

Has anyone else had this issue? See photos.

Peter from Port

11
Thanks a lot Ken. Great idea. Will chase up a supplier. I read it’s a bitumous product. I will give a ring next week about any tips putting it on. What about existing rust in the bottom of the tray? Might need to treat and seal that first. Peter 

Sent from my iPhone

On 17 Oct 2019, at 4:51 pm, Ken Garratt unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Peter,
Sorry to hear of your leaks & rusty seams. I could have done a show & tell at Old Bar for you!

Dealing with that inside floor, and in particular wherever it abutts a horizontal or vertical joint or seam, I did what's done in shower recesses, applied 2 pack flexible HK Epoxy waterproofing ... same stuff as they used in wet areas in our capitals underground bunker for Australia's totally useless seat warmers.

Works well, done it years ago, do still get water in there from the vent but it eventually evaporates away. So not had to drill a drain hole in the floor.
Cheers.
Ken
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of peter@coeconsult.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 9:32:23 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Rust in Seams [2 Attachments]
 
 

Hi there experts. I have rust in the seams on the left rear side. On investigation after recent rain (alt last) I found water lying in that compartment behind the left rear tail light unit. Quite a bit there and it's that bottom edge where the rust is appearing on the outside. Also a bit higher up in the vertical seam. I am wondering where the moisture is getting in. No point getting the seams fixed and an expensive repaint unless I can find where the water gets in. BTW, Ken had an idea to hide a spare key in this spot in one of those magnetic cases as you can get at it with a phillips head screwdriver in case you lose your keys. The key inside had nearly completely rusted away. Shows I have a problem.

Has anyone else had this issue? See photos.

Peter from Port

12

Peter,

Despite Kens success, I wouldn't recommend having water sitting in that area long term.

I deal with many building issues caused by that situation and membranes don't survive well and cant be relied on if they are affected by pooling water.

Get some drainage in then put the waterproofing in but ensuring the water drains away.

Cheers,


Scott

On 20/10/2019 5:45 pm, Coeconsult peter@coeconsult.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia] wrote:

Thanks a lot Ken. Great idea. Will chase up a supplier. I read it’s a bitumous product. I will give a ring next week about any tips putting it on. What about existing rust in the bottom of the tray? Might need to treat and seal that first. Peter

Sent from my iPhone

On 17 Oct 2019, at 4:51 pm, Ken Garratt unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Peter,
Sorry to hear of your leaks & rusty seams. I could have done a show & tell at Old Bar for you!

Dealing with that inside floor, and in particular wherever it abutts a horizontal or vertical joint or seam, I did what's done in shower recesses, applied 2 pack flexible HK Epoxy waterproofing ... same stuff as they used in wet areas in our capitals underground bunker for Australia's totally useless seat warmers.

Works well, done it years ago, do still get water in there from the vent but it eventually evaporates away. So not had to drill a drain hole in the floor.
Cheers.
Ken
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of peter@coeconsult.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 9:32:23 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Rust in Seams [2 Attachments]

Hi there experts. I have rust in the seams on the left rear side. On investigation after recent rain (alt last) I found water lying in that compartment behind the left rear tail light unit. Quite a bit there and it's that bottom edge where the rust is appearing on the outside. Also a bit higher up in the vertical seam. I am wondering where the moisture is getting in. No point getting the seams fixed and an expensive repaint unless I can find where the water gets in. BTW, Ken had an idea to hide a spare key in this spot in one of those magnetic cases as you can get at it with a phillips head screwdriver in case you lose your keys. The key inside had nearly completely rusted away. Shows I have a problem.

Has anyone else had this issue? See photos.

Peter from Port

13
Scott,
I'd agree particularly where the van is permanently left parked out in the weather, as with Peter, fortunately for me, mine is not.
Cheers.
Ken

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Scott Pitcher spbconsulting@bigpond.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2019 5:23:35 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Rust in Seams
 
 

Peter,

Despite Kens success, I wouldn't recommend having water sitting in that area long term.

I deal with many building issues caused by that situation and membranes don't survive well and cant be relied on if they are affected by pooling water.

Get some drainage in then put the waterproofing in but ensuring the water drains away.

Cheers,


Scott

On 20/10/2019 5:45 pm, Coeconsult peter@coeconsult.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia] wrote:
 

Thanks a lot Ken. Great idea. Will chase up a supplier. I read it’s a bitumous product. I will give a ring next week about any tips putting it on. What about existing rust in the bottom of the tray? Might need to treat and seal that first. Peter 

Sent from my iPhone

On 17 Oct 2019, at 4:51 pm, Ken Garratt unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Peter,
Sorry to hear of your leaks & rusty seams. I could have done a show & tell at Old Bar for you!

Dealing with that inside floor, and in particular wherever it abutts a horizontal or vertical joint or seam, I did what's done in shower recesses, applied 2 pack flexible HK Epoxy waterproofing ... same stuff as they used in wet areas in our capitals underground bunker for Australia's totally useless seat warmers.

Works well, done it years ago, do still get water in there from the vent but it eventually evaporates away. So not had to drill a drain hole in the floor.
Cheers.
Ken
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of peter@coeconsult.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 9:32:23 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Rust in Seams [2 Attachments]
 
 

Hi there experts. I have rust in the seams on the left rear side. On investigation after recent rain (alt last) I found water lying in that compartment behind the left rear tail light unit. Quite a bit there and it's that bottom edge where the rust is appearing on the outside. Also a bit higher up in the vertical seam. I am wondering where the moisture is getting in. No point getting the seams fixed and an expensive repaint unless I can find where the water gets in. BTW, Ken had an idea to hide a spare key in this spot in one of those magnetic cases as you can get at it with a phillips head screwdriver in case you lose your keys. The key inside had nearly completely rusted away. Shows I have a problem.

Has anyone else had this issue? See photos.

Peter from Port

14
Peter,
If you have existing rust, then it needs to be dealt with first in the usual way ... painful as it will be in that confined space ... I'd be buying a POR 15 rust treatment and painting kit including surface cleaning & rust converter (instructions included) prior to applying the HK epoxy flexible sealer. Far as I'm aware, bituminous products are usually black. The HK epoxy I'm speaking about is white to off-white in colour after mixing. So yes, apply the sealer over finish painted surfaces.
If possible, raise the van to a more workable height for ease of access.
Cheers.
Ken

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Coeconsult peter@coeconsult.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2019 4:45:34 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Rust in Seams
 
 

Thanks a lot Ken. Great idea. Will chase up a supplier. I read it’s a bitumous product. I will give a ring next week about any tips putting it on. What about existing rust in the bottom of the tray? Might need to treat and seal that first. Peter 

Sent from my iPhone

On 17 Oct 2019, at 4:51 pm, Ken Garratt unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Peter,
Sorry to hear of your leaks & rusty seams. I could have done a show & tell at Old Bar for you!

Dealing with that inside floor, and in particular wherever it abutts a horizontal or vertical joint or seam, I did what's done in shower recesses, applied 2 pack flexible HK Epoxy waterproofing ... same stuff as they used in wet areas in our capitals underground bunker for Australia's totally useless seat warmers.

Works well, done it years ago, do still get water in there from the vent but it eventually evaporates away. So not had to drill a drain hole in the floor.
Cheers.
Ken
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of peter@coeconsult.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 9:32:23 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Rust in Seams [2 Attachments]
 
 

Hi there experts. I have rust in the seams on the left rear side. On investigation after recent rain (alt last) I found water lying in that compartment behind the left rear tail light unit. Quite a bit there and it's that bottom edge where the rust is appearing on the outside. Also a bit higher up in the vertical seam. I am wondering where the moisture is getting in. No point getting the seams fixed and an expensive repaint unless I can find where the water gets in. BTW, Ken had an idea to hide a spare key in this spot in one of those magnetic cases as you can get at it with a phillips head screwdriver in case you lose your keys. The key inside had nearly completely rusted away. Shows I have a problem.

Has anyone else had this issue? See photos.

Peter from Port

15

Totally agree Ken.

A garage is the best for drying out these areas before they become a problem - often engine heat will evaporate out any stray moisture soon after being locked away safe and sound :)

Cheers,


Scott

On 20/10/2019 6:50 pm, Ken Garratt unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] wrote:

Scott,
I'd agree particularly where the van is permanently left parked out in the weather, as with Peter, fortunately for me, mine is not.
Cheers.
Ken

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Scott Pitcher spbconsulting@bigpond.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2019 5:23:35 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Rust in Seams

Peter,

Despite Kens success, I wouldn't recommend having water sitting in that area long term.

I deal with many building issues caused by that situation and membranes don't survive well and cant be relied on if they are affected by pooling water.

Get some drainage in then put the waterproofing in but ensuring the water drains away.

Cheers,


Scott

On 20/10/2019 5:45 pm, Coeconsult peter@coeconsult.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia] wrote:

Thanks a lot Ken. Great idea. Will chase up a supplier. I read it’s a bitumous product. I will give a ring next week about any tips putting it on.. What about existing rust in the bottom of the tray? Might need to treat and seal that first. Peter

Sent from my iPhone

On 17 Oct 2019, at 4:51 pm, Ken Garratt unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Peter,
Sorry to hear of your leaks & rusty seams. I could have done a show & tell at Old Bar for you!

Dealing with that inside floor, and in particular wherever it abutts a horizontal or vertical joint or seam, I did what's done in shower recesses, applied 2 pack flexible HK Epoxy waterproofing ... same stuff as they used in wet areas in our capitals underground bunker for Australia's totally useless seat warmers.

Works well, done it years ago, do still get water in there from the vent but it eventually evaporates away. So not had to drill a drain hole in the floor.
Cheers.
Ken
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of peter@coeconsult.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 9:32:23 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Rust in Seams [2 Attachments]

Hi there experts. I have rust in the seams on the left rear side. On investigation after recent rain (alt last) I found water lying in that compartment behind the left rear tail light unit. Quite a bit there and it's that bottom edge where the rust is appearing on the outside. Also a bit higher up in the vertical seam. I am wondering where the moisture is getting in. No point getting the seams fixed and an expensive repaint unless I can find where the water gets in. BTW, Ken had an idea to hide a spare key in this spot in one of those magnetic cases as you can get at it with a phillips head screwdriver in case you lose your keys. The key inside had nearly completely rusted away. Shows I have a problem.

Has anyone else had this issue? See photos.

Peter from Port