Hi Michael, nice to read your
words.
"Doing Battle" with your mechanics ...lol
!
I would hope that would be 'conferring with' ,
rather than anything contentious or anything like that.
( whole other topic ...but for sure ...'most' I
could almost say ...
many, professional auto technicians are
..............oh, 'arrogant' let's say. I've observed a tendency to jump
to a diagnosis, insist on that repair, then back peddle and say 'you need that
anyway, and now you need more' when things don't pan out like they thought they
would with the first quick diagnosis. Sorry to say, but 'most' car repair
I see is not 100 % dead on the money.........the wrong thing done, something
done incorrectly, etc. )
It's a perfectly normal indication for the red
LED to flash in the temp gauge when you start the engine. It's a test feature
for that warming light. It's in the Owners Manual if you have that.
( that light can have it's own weird symptoms at times though ...but what you
describe is normal and good ) . Not related to the thermostat in any way.
not at initial start up.
Should not do it for 2kms though !
My thoughts on that are either it is a little
low on coolant at the pressure bottle ( that light warns both of low
coolant level in the pressure bottle, and of getting too hot ...if gauge gets up
to say 75 % ....light should be flashing. I don't really like that .....it
can go off for either of two reasons ...and sometimes it's a matter of the level
sensor itself in the pressure bottle, or the gauge and control unit for it
circuit. I've never had to really get into that part of it very much
......you can have gauge and warning light weirdness in the dash/electrical
systems though. I've just never had to mess around with that part much at
all.
Not being used very much is really rough on
things.
Every time I take heads off a waterboxer
engine...........and as far as I'm concerned *all* used waterboxer engines need
new headgaskets ..
( unless it's pretty fresh of course ) I always
find the small green o-rings at the top of the barrels hard, shrunk, cruddy etc.
< o-rings brought down a space shuttle
.....o-rings are far from a perfect sealing system in my mind ) .
Those o-rings are always worn out, lost
their resilience etc. They keep coolant away from the metal sealing
rings.
It would make some sense maybe, that the warmer
the metal parts get, and the longer it runs, the better it seals...
so don't take short trips ! lol.
the impeller face for the water pump is part of
the engine block. Usually they are not corroded there. But if that surface is
really bad, and is actually a Real Problem ....the engine block itself would
have to be replaced. But there is reasonable tolerance I
think...
'some' corrosion there is ok as far as water
pump performance is concerned, I think.
Since corrosion was reported though
...
I can't tell you how many crusty, horribly
corroded, pitted etc. waterboxer heads and head gaskets I've seen.
Hundreds of them. Just white power where
aluminum was. Outer black rubber gaskets, pinched and split, or just
'disintegrating , like turning soft.
IF there is bad corrosion in the engine
.....here's something to really watch out for.
When you go to unscrew the head nuts ......it's
kinda scary how they feel. It's like the stud twists under the nut for the first
half turn or so ...
then finally the nut breaks loose from the stud
and unscrews.
The stud is about 9 inches long under the
nut .....where it screws into the case way down in there...
if the stud breaks off down there, you're in big
trouble.
Very difficult to deal with. The 'real
repair' would be bare engine cases in a machine shop to repair the broken off
stud area.
It would be possible to do it in situ to save
your life maybe ...but not something that is easily done.
So be real careful if removing heads on a very
corroded engine.
The barrels get stuck in the heads sometimes too
...there are tits or bumps on the sides of the barrels to pry against ....to
separate head and barrels .....sometimes they're kinda stuck there. You
don't want to pull the cylinder barrels off the pistons.
At that point, many technicians would just
insist it's new rebuilt engine time. ....if you are getting really severe
corrosion and difficulty getting things apart cleanly.
I spent two hours just on one cylinder head nut
once, maybe 3 hours ....felt like it didn't want to unscrew, but rather break
off the stud down in the engine block.
I heated that nut, I used penetrating oil on it
for days, ...did everything. Finally I drilled a hole down through the top of
it, got penetrating oil into the threads that way, then finally got it off
without damaging the stud. I might have been over-cautious on that one nut
...
but you really don't want any studs breaking
off.
if your mechanics are arrogant or brutish
.....and in a hurry or careless....well....I'm sure you follow.
don't know what an RWC is. 'real wheel carrier ?
a vanagon should get fully up to operating temp
in about 15 minutes at the most.
Its' common for them to take a lot longer
....due to thermostat likely. It's common for the t-stat to fail in the
direction of it not running warmly enough. I see that all the time in
vanagons. A really nicely working on will go from say..........it's room
temperature outside, to mid-range on the temp gauge in 15 minutes, even a little
less. Like 10 km.....yeah, should be fully up to temp well before 10km @
80 kph.
The whole time it's not really up to proper
running temp, more wear occurs. Short trips are really rough on
cars.
Short downhill trips are really bad. I have seen
a blown head gasket on a Suzuki Samurai ( small Japanese made jeep ) in only
35,000 km...
like 2 or 3 years. Belonged to an old
guy, he drove downhill to a coffee shop, stayed there all day, drove 8 blocks
home. That's almost the only driving that car did - ate out the head gasket in
fairly short order.
I hope it works out well on your van's cooling
system issues !
And really .....we love them, and we manage to
deal with the headgaskets on waterboxer VW engines...
but it really is a very joke head gasket design.
There's no other engine at all in the whole
world with this silly converted-from-air-cooled 'two step' head gasket
system.
All 'normal' cars have a flat bottomed head.
Combustion sealing and coolant sealing are done between solid flat
surfaces.
Waterboxer is nothing like that.
Combustion sealing is by metal rings at the top
of the barrel .....and that worked well enough in air-cooled boxer VW
engines.
And if combustion leaked out there, so what
....little popping sound and some pressure escapes rather than driving the
piston downward .
in a waterboxer, if that happens, it displaces
the coolant and you get hot engine, cold radiator.
There is nothing about squeezing that metal
ring between the aluminum head and top of the cast iron cylinder barrel that
should especially seal, and the nuts are only torqued to 37 ft lbs., very
little actually.
so that's the combustion sealing ....that sorta
works.
now ..the coolant sealing .......
that is where it is really mickey mouse. In a
regualr engine the head is held down with thousands of lbs of force
.......between two flat surfaces with a 'real' head gasket - often layers of
compressable material.
In the waterboxer...
the only coolant sealing is by having the head
fit down over the barrels 'just the right amount'....
just the right amout to compress the outer
rubber gaskets 'just right'. Too much and they split and pince. Not enough
...and they can leak.
It can't work long term really.
The first time I ever dealt with this .... a new
head leaked after about a year - I checked with everyone in the world ...finally
a VW dealer technician told me ...........you put the bare head on without the
rubber outer gaskets, measure that gap, and if it's too small or to big, you try
another head ( ! ) .....Standardized automotive parts were invented in about
1918..........
there is no such thing as 'one head will work
better, dimensionally speaking, than another" in the automtive world
normally ....
but it's that way in Waterboxer engines. It is
possible to make dimensional corrections by mahcine work, but it's not easy or
commonly done.
anyway ...hope you get it fixed !!
and we don't even know that you have head gasket
issues yet of course .....but it's quite common. Perhaps you're just fine
in that area.
For a coolant mixture, I run a high quality
conventional anti-frz ......
mixed 50/50 with tap water ....and I have never
lived where the water was extra hard .....
and then I add macinist's oil...cutting oil, a
water soluble oil ........a few cupfulls , Makes a fine rust inhibutor and water
pump lubricant. Been doing that 20 + years to thousands of cars. You can't
take too good care of a waterboxer cooling system. It's the most delicate and
attetnion-worthy system in the whole van.
Scott
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 6:16
PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia]
Seeking Help Advice
Hi Scott
Thank you for an extremely thorough and extensive reply for advise to my
problem re overheating of my Syncro. You have armed me with a modicum of
confidence when I go in to do battle with my mechanic. I will follow your
advise and start off with pressurising the system for internal and external
leaks, then t-stat, then radiator.Lets hope that by then we have fixed the
problem.
Do you think that the flashing temp warning light that comes on and
blinks only first thing on a cold morning might indicate thermostat problems.
It does this for the 2 klms I drive to my studio. When I return 2 hours later
all is OK, no blinking light.
Interestingly, with more trips, the engine seems to be traveling a little
further each time before getting too hot (3/4 over on the temp gauge). Could
this have something to do with the engine being dormant for a few years. It
only traveled something like 20 klms for 3 years after engine rebuild.The
previous owner claimed he drove it down the street and back once a week to
keep the engine lubricated.
When the mechanic pulled the water pump off after much shouting and
cursing he said the engine was stuffed because he thought there was corrosion
in the block where the water pump is attached. Interestingly he replaced the
pump even though the original was OK and put the engine back with a RWC
For interest sake how long does it take for your vanagon to attain the
correct temperature running in hilly country at 80 klm p/h?
Once again thank you very much for taking the time to lend me some advice
and your considered attention.
Regards
Michael
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans
<ScottDaniel@ turbovans. com>
To:
Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Sent: Tue, 13 April, 2010 7:35:30
AM
Subject: Re:
[Syncro_T3_Australi a] Seeking Help
Advice
Re Michael's issues ..
for the slow-to-warm up ....usually you think
of the thermostat for that symptom. They commonly open too early and run too
cool. Good new german one is indicated, seems to me.
for mysterious overheating or running too hot
...
the normal path through that is pressure test
for leaks, make sure t-stat is good, and consider if the radiator is removing
heat like it should.
Eventually they just don't to that too well,
so if its' 15 years old say .....you suspect the radiator for running too hot,
IF ...IF ..everything else is working like it should.
What to be suspicious of for mysterious or
inconsistent overheating or running to hot ...if you ever get this one
...semi-common too actually in waterboxer vanagons. If it ever seems to
'unbleed itself' .....like it'll run fine, then act up, you bleed out air and
it's ok until it acts up again ..
and particularly if you get 'hot engine, stone
cold radiator , like the main pipes are blocked, and it's not that, and it's
not the thermostat or waterpump" ...then you have exhaust gases getting into
the coolant at the heads or headgaksets. Quite a common waterboxer
cooling system failure mode actually.
What I really like to see a waterboxer vanagon
do for a cooling system test, is be able to sit there idling ...until the
radiator fan comes on ....then it goes off after a while, then comes back on
again in a few minutes ....then back off etc.
that cycle indicates a lot of good things in
my mind ...that it's full of coolant ( not much air in it ) ......that coolant
is circulating, that the radiator fan sender and circuit is working, and that
the radiator removes heat properly.
I see that with the temp gauge sitting
right at about 55 % on the temp gauge ...
I'm happy. And good heater performance.
...that is 'a working' waterboxer cooling system.
a common mistake or non-understanding ...like
changing that waterpump hoping that would fix something, if that's what
happened.
.........when there is overheating that's not
understood , while driving...
and people see that the rad fan doesn't come
on at idle ............ ....some people diagnose that as why it runs to hot at
speed.
Once the van is up to say 5o or 60 kph speed,
it doesn't care if the rad fan is even on the van. The rad fan is only for
when it's not moving through the air.
the normal order to sort though is
..
all external and internal coolant leaks, look
for those and fix those.
thermostat - that it runs in about the right
temp range. Too cool is not good. Must run fully up to temp.
T-stat should be wide open at about 180 to 190 F ...whatever that is in C.
then radiator.... it has to be able to remove
heat well enough. Eventually they don't.
then radiator fan, should cycle off and on
sitting idling on a warm day.
if all that is right, and it still is
inconsistent, or unbleeds itself, or can't sustain running consistently and
all the above is correct, then you think about head gaskets.
the little green o-rings that sit at the top
of the barrels...
that keep coolant way from the metal
combustion sealing rings between barrel and head ..
those little green o-rings get hard, brittle,
and cruddy, in just a few years even. It's not that uncommon
for exhaust to get past the metal rings and green o-rings into the coolant, a
tiny bit at a time, and intermittently even.
when that happens....exhaust in the
cooling system at the engine ...
it displaces the coolant, the w. pump can't
push anything gaseous .....then you get hot engine, cold radiator, no
circulation. Like the main pipes where clogged, buy they are not.
one semi-definitive test is to sniff
the air space above the coolant in the pressure bottle for high HC with a smog
sniffer probe. There's also a 'block tester' tool that uses a fluid
that changes color if there is exhaust in the coolant- as a test for this
syndrome.
It takes a while for a newbie to wrap their
mind around a syncro, working on it. At first it's difficult for sure.
Scott
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 6:08
AM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a]
Seeking Help Advice
My problems dont sound as bad as yours. What have you spent 4k
on?
Mines going back over the pits as soon as i can get it back
there.
Whereabouts do you live?
good luck in fixing the problem.
From: Michael Rayner <mrayner51@yahoo.
com>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia
@yahoogroups. com
Sent:
Mon, 12 April, 2010 8:28:39 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Seeking
Help Advice
Read with interest Anthony's trials and tribulations with his Syncro
and the pits inspection. I can empathise with him on this one and some
$2,000 later. I also concur from experience with Ken's summation about the
pitfalls (pun intended) of buying unregistered and from interstate ($4000
and counting).
I'm seeking help from members. I live in an isolated area far from
specialists VW mechanics. My one and only local mechanic is belligerent,
frustrated and out of his depth in working on my syncro but I need to cajole
and keep him onside in order to get my car in a condition that allows me to
drive it some 500klms to a decent mechanic and have the necessary work done.
("no wonder the krauts lost the war when they built shit like this") is what
I have to put up with.
Car starting and running moderately OK but having overheating problems.
Takes ages to warm UP to temperature, approx 20 klms @ 80kph through hilly
country to centre the gauge, but then continues to move progessively to the
right of the gauge until I have to pull over and allow to cool down. Approx
30- 40 klms. Also on the few very cold mornings this season the red temp
warning light keeps blinking even though the temp needle hasn't even moved
off the cold marker.
Can members suggest a logical, step by step, one procedure at a time
approach for my mechanic to perform to identify and rectify the problem.
Already replaced the water pump, which wasn't the problem in the first
place.
Regards