Slow Starter Saga

This is the history of my starter motor problems - and the eventual solution.
It began with my conversion to the EJ25 Subaru motor in 2000 I suppose, as although the original VW starter did the job for about 5 years, the 10:1 compression ratio began to make starting an occasional problem, particularly when the motor was hot and/ or if the battery was not fully charged.
So the first solution was to fit a second battery in parallel, which help a bit.
Also a remote starter relay, new starter pinion bearing, replace the starter motor solenoid - but these were not the complete answer, as often with a hot motor I would have to wait 10 mins or more for it to cool and then the starter would spin the motor easily.
Then I saw on the GoWesty site the reason for my troubles. They said these starters, with increasing age, had windings that develop high resistance when hot and that there were no new motors to replace them, only refurbished, which used the original windings.
Their solution was to develop a gear reduction starter to replace the old starter.
Whoopee I said and ordered one - about $500 AUD - ouch, but I was getting pissed off at the constant hassle of explaining to passengers that they just have to be patient.
This was in June 2015, but I was delayed in fitting it till November when found to my horror that yes it turned the motor over happily, but at about half the speed of the old VW starter, and would only start the motor on a warm day! Then I read the fine print - that Gowesty only recommended them for VW engines - not guaranteed for other motors! Fitted back the old VW starter.
Then I saw that CAE Performance Products in Castlemaine made a HiTorque starter that fitted the Syncro, so I rang them to enquire. Yes, this was the answer to my problems, plenty of people use them with Subaru motors in sandrails, aircraft etc. Now this looked very similar to the Gowesty product but I was assured at 1.9 HP, it was plenty strong enough. The Gowesty starter fitted in my syncro with the terminal of the motor facing down, which seem a recipe for trouble, so I got CAE to reverse the terminal so that it was protected, facing up - another $90, but hell lets do it right!
So I fit this starter last month, turn the key, bugger, bugger, bugger - it turns the motor happily but also again at half speed!!! Won't even start in this cold weather!
So much more trolling the net - the answer it seem is a VW TDI starter from 96 - 2003 manual Golf with an adaptor from Karl Mullendore in USA.
These starters are rare in Aust so I buy one from Germany $126AUD (wrecker here wanted $350) and the adaptor $153 AUD
I fitted it 2 days ago - wow spins the motor faster than it has ever spun and with less battery draw - my starting troubles are over!!
I now have the Gowesty and the CAE starter for sale - fine for VW syncros, but not diesel or subaru! I'd like $350 each as they are almost new, but I'm open to offers

Bob Turnbull




Mailtrack Sender notified by
Mailtrack 07/22/18, 1:17:17 PM
Good story Bob, but why not simply fit a Subaru starter motor?
This would mean I suppose changing the bell housing. But perhaps a better way to go?
Peter

On Sun, 22 Jul. 2018, 3:07 pm Robert Turnbull bobtau01@gmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia], <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

This is the history of my starter motor problems - and the eventual solution.
It began with my conversion to the EJ25 Subaru motor in 2000 I suppose, as although the original VW starter did the job for about 5 years, the 10:1 compression ratio began to make starting an occasional problem, particularly when the motor was hot and/ or if the battery was not fully charged.
So the first solution was to fit a second battery in parallel, which help a bit.
Also a remote starter relay, new starter pinion bearing, replace the starter motor solenoid - but these were not the complete answer, as often with a hot motor I would have to wait 10 mins or more for it to cool and then the starter would spin the motor easily.
Then I saw on the GoWesty site the reason for my troubles. They said these starters, with increasing age, had windings that develop high resistance when hot and that there were no new motors to replace them, only refurbished, which used the original windings.
Their solution was to develop a gear reduction starter to replace the old starter.
Whoopee I said and ordered one - about $500 AUD - ouch, but I was getting pissed off at the constant hassle of explaining to passengers that they just have to be patient.
This was in June 2015, but I was delayed in fitting it till November when found to my horror that yes it turned the motor over happily, but at about half the speed of the old VW starter, and would only start the motor on a warm day! Then I read the fine print - that Gowesty only recommended them for VW engines - not guaranteed for other motors! Fitted back the old VW starter.
Then I saw that CAE Performance Products in Castlemaine made a HiTorque starter that fitted the Syncro, so I rang them to enquire. Yes, this was the answer to my problems, plenty of people use them with Subaru motors in sandrails, aircraft etc. Now this looked very similar to the Gowesty product but I was assured at 1.9 HP, it was plenty strong enough. The Gowesty starter fitted in my syncro with the terminal of the motor facing down, which seem a recipe for trouble, so I got CAE to reverse the terminal so that it was protected, facing up - another $90, but hell lets do it right!
So I fit this starter last month, turn the key, bugger, bugger, bugger - it turns the motor happily but also again at half speed!!! Won't even start in this cold weather!
So much more trolling the net - the answer it seem is a VW TDI starter from 96 - 2003 manual Golf with an adaptor from Karl Mullendore in USA.
These starters are rare in Aust so I buy one from Germany $126AUD (wrecker here wanted $350) and the adaptor $153 AUD
I fitted it 2 days ago - wow spins the motor faster than it has ever spun and with less battery draw - my starting troubles are over!!
I now have the Gowesty and the CAE starter for sale - fine for VW syncros, but not diesel or subaru! I'd like $350 each as they are almost new, but I'm open to offers

Bob Turnbull




Mailtrack Sender notified by
Mailtrack 07/22/18, 1:17:17 PM
Hi Bob,
What model TDI are these out if? Is there a part number.
I’m building up a DJ VW 10:1 compression.
Do you know if the GW unit will work on that combination.?
Cheers
Mark


On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 at 3:07 pm, Robert Turnbull bobtau01@gmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

This is the history of my starter motor problems - and the eventual solution.
It began with my conversion to the EJ25 Subaru motor in 2000 I suppose, as although the original VW starter did the job for about 5 years, the 10:1 compression ratio began to make starting an occasional problem, particularly when the motor was hot and/ or if the battery was not fully charged.
So the first solution was to fit a second battery in parallel, which help a bit.
Also a remote starter relay, new starter pinion bearing, replace the starter motor solenoid - but these were not the complete answer, as often with a hot motor I would have to wait 10 mins or more for it to cool and then the starter would spin the motor easily.
Then I saw on the GoWesty site the reason for my troubles. They said these starters, with increasing age, had windings that develop high resistance when hot and that there were no new motors to replace them, only refurbished, which used the original windings.
Their solution was to develop a gear reduction starter to replace the old starter.
Whoopee I said and ordered one - about $500 AUD - ouch, but I was getting pissed off at the constant hassle of explaining to passengers that they just have to be patient.
This was in June 2015, but I was delayed in fitting it till November when found to my horror that yes it turned the motor over happily, but at about half the speed of the old VW starter, and would only start the motor on a warm day! Then I read the fine print - that Gowesty only recommended them for VW engines - not guaranteed for other motors! Fitted back the old VW starter.
Then I saw that CAE Performance Products in Castlemaine made a HiTorque starter that fitted the Syncro, so I rang them to enquire. Yes, this was the answer to my problems, plenty of people use them with Subaru motors in sandrails, aircraft etc. Now this looked very similar to the Gowesty product but I was assured at 1.9 HP, it was plenty strong enough. The Gowesty starter fitted in my syncro with the terminal of the motor facing down, which seem a recipe for trouble, so I got CAE to reverse the terminal so that it was protected, facing up - another $90, but hell lets do it right!
So I fit this starter last month, turn the key, bugger, bugger, bugger - it turns the motor happily but also again at half speed!!! Won't even start in this cold weather!
So much more trolling the net - the answer it seem is a VW TDI starter from 96 - 2003 manual Golf with an adaptor from Karl Mullendore in USA.
These starters are rare in Aust so I buy one from Germany $126AUD (wrecker here wanted $350) and the adaptor $153 AUD
I fitted it 2 days ago - wow spins the motor faster than it has ever spun and with less battery draw - my starting troubles are over!!
I now have the Gowesty and the CAE starter for sale - fine for VW syncros, but not diesel or subaru! I'd like $350 each as they are almost new, but I'm open to offers

Bob Turnbull




Mailtrack Sender notified by
Mailtrack 07/22/18, 1:17:17 PM

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Head Office
Unit 2, 1472 Boundary Road Wacol, Qld, 4300 Australia
Ph: +61 7 3879 3005

US Office
3388a Commercial Ave
Nortbrook IL, 60062
USA
Office: +1 224 501 9001
Bob,
I should read more closely TDI Golf....got it.
Cheers
Mark


On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 at 3:16 pm, Mark Fisher <mark@swiftperformance.com> wrote:
Hi Bob,
What model TDI are these out if? Is there a part number.
I’m building up a DJ VW 10:1 compression.
Do you know if the GW unit will work on that combination.?
Cheers
Mark


On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 at 3:07 pm, Robert Turnbull bobtau01@gmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

This is the history of my starter motor problems - and the eventual solution.
It began with my conversion to the EJ25 Subaru motor in 2000 I suppose, as although the original VW starter did the job for about 5 years, the 10:1 compression ratio began to make starting an occasional problem, particularly when the motor was hot and/ or if the battery was not fully charged.
So the first solution was to fit a second battery in parallel, which help a bit.
Also a remote starter relay, new starter pinion bearing, replace the starter motor solenoid - but these were not the complete answer, as often with a hot motor I would have to wait 10 mins or more for it to cool and then the starter would spin the motor easily.
Then I saw on the GoWesty site the reason for my troubles. They said these starters, with increasing age, had windings that develop high resistance when hot and that there were no new motors to replace them, only refurbished, which used the original windings.
Their solution was to develop a gear reduction starter to replace the old starter.
Whoopee I said and ordered one - about $500 AUD - ouch, but I was getting pissed off at the constant hassle of explaining to passengers that they just have to be patient.
This was in June 2015, but I was delayed in fitting it till November when found to my horror that yes it turned the motor over happily, but at about half the speed of the old VW starter, and would only start the motor on a warm day! Then I read the fine print - that Gowesty only recommended them for VW engines - not guaranteed for other motors! Fitted back the old VW starter.
Then I saw that CAE Performance Products in Castlemaine made a HiTorque starter that fitted the Syncro, so I rang them to enquire. Yes, this was the answer to my problems, plenty of people use them with Subaru motors in sandrails, aircraft etc. Now this looked very similar to the Gowesty product but I was assured at 1.9 HP, it was plenty strong enough. The Gowesty starter fitted in my syncro with the terminal of the motor facing down, which seem a recipe for trouble, so I got CAE to reverse the terminal so that it was protected, facing up - another $90, but hell lets do it right!
So I fit this starter last month, turn the key, bugger, bugger, bugger - it turns the motor happily but also again at half speed!!! Won't even start in this cold weather!
So much more trolling the net - the answer it seem is a VW TDI starter from 96 - 2003 manual Golf with an adaptor from Karl Mullendore in USA.
These starters are rare in Aust so I buy one from Germany $126AUD (wrecker here wanted $350) and the adaptor $153 AUD
I fitted it 2 days ago - wow spins the motor faster than it has ever spun and with less battery draw - my starting troubles are over!!
I now have the Gowesty and the CAE starter for sale - fine for VW syncros, but not diesel or subaru! I'd like $350 each as they are almost new, but I'm open to offers

Bob Turnbull




Mailtrack Sender notified by
Mailtrack 07/22/18, 1:17:17 PM

--


Head Office
Unit 2, 1472 Boundary Road Wacol, Qld, 4300 Australia
Ph: +61 7 3879 3005

US Office
3388a Commercial Ave
Nortbrook IL, 60062
USA
Office: +1 224 501 9001
--


Head Office
Unit 2, 1472 Boundary Road Wacol, Qld, 4300 Australia
Ph: +61 7 3879 3005

US Office
3388a Commercial Ave
Nortbrook IL, 60062
USA
Office: +1 224 501 9001
It would be a good idea Peter if starting from scratch, but would mean new bell housing, clutch, flywheel, starter etc - much bigger project!
Bob T
Mark,
Starter motor part No 02A911023R or 02A911024D or Bosch remanufactured SR0408X or SR0409X
The DJ VW would probably work as it would start at lower revs, but to play safe I would prefer the TDI starter
Bob T
This is a good reason to install the Small car or RJES bellhousing using a Subaru starter.

Just works better.

However, in saying that my syncro ran a 6cyl suby ER27 for over 20 years and it ran with an adapter plate.

It was a very torquey engine but the VW starter would cope for about 5 years at a time.

I am over the dodgy repairs that mechanics do with these old starters and I am using the Wasp reduction drive starter for my 2wd which runs a stock VW MV donk. Purchased from JK in Sydney.

It works great so far and has an awesome starter sound.

Actually sounds like a Suby starter.

Everything cost $$ but.

Cheers,

Scott

On 22/07/2018 3:07 PM, Robert Turnbull bobtau01@gmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] wrote:
This is the history of my starter motor problems - and the eventual solution.
It began with my conversion to the EJ25 Subaru motor in 2000 I suppose, as although the original VW starter did the job for about 5 years, the 10:1 compression ratio began to make starting an occasional problem, particularly when the motor was hot and/ or if the battery was not fully charged.
So the first solution was to fit a second battery in parallel, which help a bit.
Also a remote starter relay, new starter pinion bearing, replace the starter motor solenoid - but these were not the complete answer, as often with a hot motor I would have to wait 10 mins or more for it to cool and then the starter would spin the motor easily.
Then I saw on the GoWesty site the reason for my troubles. They said these starters, with increasing age, had windings that develop high resistance when hot and that there were no new motors to replace them, only refurbished, which used the original windings.
Their solution was to develop a gear reduction starter to replace the old starter.
Whoopee I said and ordered one - about $500 AUD - ouch, but I was getting pissed off at the constant hassle of explaining to passengers that they just have to be patient.
This was in June 2015, but I was delayed in fitting it till November when found to my horror that yes it turned the motor over happily, but at about half the speed of the old VW starter, and would only start the motor on a warm day! Then I read the fine print - that Gowesty only recommended them for VW engines - not guaranteed for other motors! Fitted back the old VW starter.
Then I saw that CAE Performance Products in Castlemaine made a HiTorque starter that fitted the Syncro, so I rang them to enquire. Yes, this was the answer to my problems, plenty of people use them with Subaru motors in sandrails, aircraft etc. Now this looked very similar to the Gowesty product but I was assured at 1.9 HP, it was plenty strong enough. The Gowesty starter fitted in my syncro with the terminal of the motor facing down, which seem a recipe for trouble, so I got CAE to reverse the terminal so that it was protected, facing up - another $90, but hell lets do it right!
So I fit this starter last month, turn the key, bugger, bugger, bugger - it turns the motor happily but also again at half speed!!! Won't even start in this cold weather!
So much more trolling the net - the answer it seem is a VW TDI starter from 96 - 2003 manual Golf with an adaptor from Karl Mullendore in USA.
These starters are rare in Aust so I buy one from Germany $126AUD (wrecker here wanted $350) and the adaptor $153 AUD
I fitted it 2 days ago - wow spins the motor faster than it has ever spun and with less battery draw - my starting troubles are over!!
I now have the Gowesty and the CAE starter for sale - fine for VW syncros, but not diesel or subaru! I'd like $350 each as they are almost new, but I'm open to offers

Bob Turnbull




Mailtrack Sender notified by
Mailtrack 07/22/18, 1:17:17 PM

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Best regards, Scott Pitcher SPB Consulting