Syncro prang - Front diff howl

About a month ago, while driving my Syncro down an dual laned road in Adelaide, a young lady decided to dash out, making a right turn from a side road on my left, into my path. Her excuse was a truck in the lane in front of her had waved her out!
The result was me, after laying 10m of rubber, T-boning her Rocky Diahatsu with my bull bar meeting her B pillar and pushing her main chassis rail and side of the Rocky in about 400mm.
Thank God neither of us were hurt, other than me being shaken and her with sore ribs and being trapped in the Rocky till the fire truck could cut her out.
You can see the effect on the Syncro in "Bob's Bingle" in the Photos section, the Rocky was a write off.

This will provide rich material for the pro/con debate on Bullbars - the opinion of the police & crash repairer was that the damage to my car would be more severe without it.
As it is, the crash repairer after trying to obtain parts and panels at the local VW dealer (what's a T3?) and finding they were made of unobtainium, has got a nose cut from a Sydney wrecker. Her insurance has allowed $2000 for the Bull Bar, so the repairer is trying find someone to repair it, or a replacement, which is proving difficult.

The next part of the story is I have noticed a diff howl from the front diff develop - related to the prang? I doubt Insurance would cover it.
My mechanic can't see why that would be so, but says could be bearings or ring and pinion - can't say till it is opened. The howl is noticeable on or off load and worse at speed.
(Aside to Les - please remove him from the recommended repairers [S & T Automotive Repairers] as he has now retired - still has his jigs and tools, so could do my box)

The last time he replaced a ring and pinion it came from Singapore after 2 weeks search and about $2000.
So if just bearings $2000 or ring and pinion etc $5000 - if they are still available - Are Albins making ring and pinion sets?
He is enquiring to see what is available, but suggests rather than open up the gearbox, see the damage and chase parts for many weeks, my best option may be to drive it gently, in the meantime try to find a good s/h Syncro gearbox.

So my appeal is to the List - advice please - any leads on a good S/H gearbox? Would Rudi P be best to try?, import from Busman or Germany? any others done this? costs?

The Moral to the story - Don't drive your syncro on Public Roads!

Bob Turnbull
91 Telstra Syncro
Bob,

Thats a nasty tale you have there. Just Kampers have loads of T3 frontal parts brand new (including an entire front panel and windscreen surround) if you ever need them again (But hopefully not).

Are you sure that the howl is from the front diff or is it in the main gearbox?

Could it be a wheel bearing?

Many strange things happen after an accident. My wife decided she didn't like straight wheels and therefore attacked an innocent gutter with the wheels to reshape them to he liking a couple of months ago and we replaced the usual parts that were affected like a whole rear axle, front strut lower control arm, ball joint etc plus the wheels & tyres. Then about 6 weeks ago we started to notice a fuel smell and we just found that one of the plastic fuel pump nozzles had fractured with the sideways bang and started to leak.

In a Mk4 golf the pump is in the tank so a new tank sender/ fuel pump was ordered $300 and replaced. Just waiting for the next problem to show up now.

Hopefully you fix the front diff and it will be all sorted.

Could you try changing the front diff oil?

Note the speedo drive goes into the front diff and hence the cable gets gearbox oil in it and in the frontal collision, the cable may have fractured allowing diff oil to leak out to the point where it is low?

Worth checking anyway.

Cheers,

Skot

On 5/05/2012 7:59 AM, Bob wrote:
 

About a month ago, while driving my Syncro down an dual laned road in Adelaide, a young lady decided to dash out, making a right turn from a side road on my left, into my path. Her excuse was a truck in the lane in front of her had waved her out!
The result was me, after laying 10m of rubber, T-boning her Rocky Diahatsu with my bull bar meeting her B pillar and pushing her main chassis rail and side of the Rocky in about 400mm.
Thank God neither of us were hurt, other than me being shaken and her with sore ribs and being trapped in the Rocky till the fire truck could cut her out.
You can see the effect on the Syncro in "Bob's Bingle" in the Photos section, the Rocky was a write off.

This will provide rich material for the pro/con debate on Bullbars - the opinion of the police & crash repairer was that the damage to my car would be more severe without it.
As it is, the crash repairer after trying to obtain parts and panels at the local VW dealer (what's a T3?) and finding they were made of unobtainium, has got a nose cut from a Sydney wrecker. Her insurance has allowed $2000 for the Bull Bar, so the repairer is trying find someone to repair it, or a replacement, which is proving difficult.

The next part of the story is I have noticed a diff howl from the front diff develop - related to the prang? I doubt Insurance would cover it.
My mechanic can't see why that would be so, but says could be bearings or ring and pinion - can't say till it is opened. The howl is noticeable on or off load and worse at speed.
(Aside to Les - please remove him from the recommended repairers [S & T Automotive Repairers] as he has now retired - still has his jigs and tools, so could do my box)

The last time he replaced a ring and pinion it came from Singapore after 2 weeks search and about $2000.
So if just bearings $2000 or ring and pinion etc $5000 - if they are still available - Are Albins making ring and pinion sets?
He is enquiring to see what is available, but suggests rather than open up the gearbox, see the damage and chase parts for many weeks, my best option may be to drive it gently, in the meantime try to find a good s/h Syncro gearbox.

So my appeal is to the List - advice please - any leads on a good S/H gearbox? Would Rudi P be best to try?, import from Busman or Germany? any others done this? costs?

The Moral to the story - Don't drive your syncro on Public Roads!

Bob Turnbull
91 Telstra Syncro


Glad to see no one was hurt Bob. At least you have the consolation of knowing you have removed one more Diahatsu from the world. If your front diff noise is not related to on/off load it is most likely just bearings. Worth taking care of it asap, you don't want bits of hardened bearing material grinding away at your c&p. Dropping the oil or removing the end plate should easily diagnose the issue. According to albins website they are making the c&p's. See below. Greg E
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From: Bob <bobturn@internode.on.net>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 5 May 2012 7:59 AM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Syncro prang - Front diff howl

 
About a month ago, while driving my Syncro down an dual laned road in Adelaide, a young lady decided to dash out, making a right turn from a side road on my left, into my path. Her excuse was a truck in the lane in front of her had waved her out!
The result was me, after laying 10m of rubber, T-boning her Rocky Diahatsu with my bull bar meeting her B pillar and pushing her main chassis rail and side of the Rocky in about 400mm.
Thank God neither of us were hurt, other than me being shaken and her with sore ribs and being trapped in the Rocky till the fire truck could cut her out.
You can see the effect on the Syncro in "Bob's Bingle" in the Photos section, the Rocky was a write off.

This will provide rich material for the pro/con debate on Bullbars - the opinion of the police & crash repairer was that the damage to my car would be more severe without it.
As it is, the crash repairer after trying to obtain parts and panels at the local VW dealer (what's a T3?) and finding they were made of unobtainium, has got a nose cut from a Sydney wrecker. Her insurance has allowed $2000 for the Bull Bar, so the repairer is trying find someone to repair it, or a replacement, which is proving difficult.

The next part of the story is I have noticed a diff howl from the front diff develop - related to the prang? I doubt Insurance would cover it.
My mechanic can't see why that would be so, but says could be bearings or ring and pinion - can't say till it is opened. The howl is noticeable on or off load and worse at speed.
(Aside to Les - please remove him from the recommended repairers [S & T Automotive Repairers] as he has now retired - still has his jigs and tools, so could do my box)

The last time he replaced a ring and pinion it came from Singapore after 2 weeks search and about $2000.
So if just bearings $2000 or ring and pinion etc $5000 - if they are still available - Are Albins making ring and pinion sets?
He is enquiring to see what is available, but suggests rather than open up the gearbox, see the damage and chase parts for many weeks, my best option may be to drive it gently, in the meantime try to find a good s/h Syncro gearbox.

So my appeal is to the List - advice please - any leads on a good S/H gearbox? Would Rudi P be best to try?, import from Busman or Germany? any others done this? costs?

The Moral to the story - Don't drive your syncro on Public Roads!

Bob Turnbull
91 Telstra Syncro



Bob,

Sorry to hear about this; it is always sad stuff when a Syncro gets damaged under such circumstances.

In a crash like this, an accumulation of forces occurs.  Any mass that is flexibly mounted will move forward at the instant of impact.  In this case, the motor will apply a forward load on the prop shaft, which in turn can load up everything ahead of it.  Whilst unlikely, it might have put a load on the front crown wheel and pinion.

Re the subsequent noise, you might have to do some detective work yourself, starting from removing the prop shaft (mark it so that it goes back in the same spot) and drive the vehicle to see if this removes the noise.  The common C&P noise is associated with power on (pinion driving the crown wheel) disappears when the crown wheel is driving the pinion.

Ah – your next email has just come through!!!

If it is the rear C&P, the impact might have loaded up and damaged the thrust bearing, in which event, it will be a gearbox removal job.  I will check with Albins on Monday.  In the meanwhile, you can check with Rudy.  There is also a gearbox man in Melbourne, possibly also Volkwerke in Melbourne.

Les

 


From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Sent: 05 May 2012 07:59
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Syncro prang - Front diff howl

 

_,_._,___

Heh Bob,

Yeah sorry indeed to hear of your misfortune, I know the feeling. Happened to me years ago in my T2 Doka locally, an old fart in his Merc suddenly,with no warning, decided to execute a U turn across double yellow unbroken lines and with no blinker on, with me behind him and no where to go. The first prang the Bay had ever had. Cops said they would have thrown the book at him.

So re what you say: "The Moral to the story - Don't drive your syncro on Public Roads!"

I'd say, as happened to both of us: "Don't be found in the wrong place at the wrong time!"

Good luck.

Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: bobturn@internode.on.net
Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 21:59:13 +0000
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Syncro prang - Front diff howl

 
About a month ago, while driving my Syncro down an dual laned road in Adelaide, a young lady decided to dash out, making a right turn from a side road on my left, into my path. Her excuse was a truck in the lane in front of her had waved her out!
The result was me, after laying 10m of rubber, T-boning her Rocky Diahatsu with my bull bar meeting her B pillar and pushing her main chassis rail and side of the Rocky in about 400mm.
Thank God neither of us were hurt, other than me being shaken and her with sore ribs and being trapped in the Rocky till the fire truck could cut her out.
You can see the effect on the Syncro in "Bob's Bingle" in the Photos section, the Rocky was a write off.

This will provide rich material for the pro/con debate on Bullbars - the opinion of the police & crash repairer was that the damage to my car would be more severe without it.
As it is, the crash repairer after trying to obtain parts and panels at the local VW dealer (what's a T3?) and finding they were made of unobtainium, has got a nose cut from a Sydney wrecker. Her insurance has allowed $2000 for the Bull Bar, so the repairer is trying find someone to repair it, or a replacement, which is proving difficult.

The next part of the story is I have noticed a diff howl from the front diff develop - related to the prang? I doubt Insurance would cover it.
My mechanic can't see why that would be so, but says could be bearings or ring and pinion - can't say till it is opened. The howl is noticeable on or off load and worse at speed.
(Aside to Les - please remove him from the recommended repairers [S & T Automotive Repairers] as he has now retired - still has his jigs and tools, so could do my box)

The last time he replaced a ring and pinion it came from Singapore after 2 weeks search and about $2000.
So if just bearings $2000 or ring and pinion etc $5000 - if they are still available - Are Albins making ring and pinion sets?
He is enquiring to see what is available, but suggests rather than open up the gearbox, see the damage and chase parts for many weeks, my best option may be to drive it gently, in the meantime try to find a good s/h Syncro gearbox.

So my appeal is to the List - advice please - any leads on a good S/H gearbox? Would Rudi P be best to try?, import from Busman or Germany? any others done this? costs?

The Moral to the story - Don't drive your syncro on Public Roads!

Bob Turnbull
91 Telstra Syncro


Bob exactly the same thing happened to my syncro but no diff damage, Its amazing that all that energy is absorbed about 100 mm from your right foot. My colision was with a new falcon wagon and i hit his front right wheel with my left corner. Spun the falcon poping off all the wheel trims and tore the engine and gear box from its mounts.
I had no bull bar and it only crushed the impact rail the bumper bar covers <which was available new then about 4 years ago> slight damage to the cnr and a broken blinker.
The assesor had just come from writing off the ford wagon and could not believe the Syncro had destroyed the ford but was basicly only scratched.
Good luck with your repair.
I believe the diff could have been damaged in the accident. Its not unusual for drivelines to be damaged in heavy frontal impacts especially with manual transmissions as you go from speed to stopped in milliseconds. Tell your assesor you have nothing to loose?
Regards Pete


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bobturn@...> wrote:
>
> About a month ago, while driving my Syncro down an dual laned road in Adelaide, a young lady decided to dash out, making a right turn from a side road on my left, into my path. Her excuse was a truck in the lane in front of her had waved her out!
> The result was me, after laying 10m of rubber, T-boning her Rocky Diahatsu with my bull bar meeting her B pillar and pushing her main chassis rail and side of the Rocky in about 400mm.
> Thank God neither of us were hurt, other than me being shaken and her with sore ribs and being trapped in the Rocky till the fire truck could cut her out.
> You can see the effect on the Syncro in "Bob's Bingle" in the Photos section, the Rocky was a write off.
>
> This will provide rich material for the pro/con debate on Bullbars - the opinion of the police & crash repairer was that the damage to my car would be more severe without it.
> As it is, the crash repairer after trying to obtain parts and panels at the local VW dealer (what's a T3?) and finding they were made of unobtainium, has got a nose cut from a Sydney wrecker. Her insurance has allowed $2000 for the Bull Bar, so the repairer is trying find someone to repair it, or a replacement, which is proving difficult.
>
> The next part of the story is I have noticed a diff howl from the front diff develop - related to the prang? I doubt Insurance would cover it.
> My mechanic can't see why that would be so, but says could be bearings or ring and pinion - can't say till it is opened. The howl is noticeable on or off load and worse at speed.
> (Aside to Les - please remove him from the recommended repairers [S & T Automotive Repairers] as he has now retired - still has his jigs and tools, so could do my box)
>
> The last time he replaced a ring and pinion it came from Singapore after 2 weeks search and about $2000.
> So if just bearings $2000 or ring and pinion etc $5000 - if they are still available - Are Albins making ring and pinion sets?
> He is enquiring to see what is available, but suggests rather than open up the gearbox, see the damage and chase parts for many weeks, my best option may be to drive it gently, in the meantime try to find a good s/h Syncro gearbox.
>
> So my appeal is to the List - advice please - any leads on a good S/H gearbox? Would Rudi P be best to try?, import from Busman or Germany? any others done this? costs?
>
> The Moral to the story - Don't drive your syncro on Public Roads!
>
> Bob Turnbull
> 91 Telstra Syncro
>
Bob. I'd be making a lot of noise to the insurance company to include the diff/gearbox repair in the repair bill. Too much of a coincidence. The G forces of such an impact must be tremendous. As Les said the motor moving forward pushing the tailshaft into the diff can't be good for it. Bill.