Syncro Tour 2008 ? And LPG.

1
At the recent Batemans Bay get together was there any discussion of an '08 Syncro trip?

My brother and sister live near Towoomba in south east Qld and we will be spending next
Christmas with them and then possibly spending a bit of time (with the masses!) on the
north NSW coast before heading home. Unless of course there was a Syncro event
happening somewhere in the east.

I would love an excuse to take the Syncro instead of the (admittedly to me - free fuelled)
Kluger.

On a different topic, I am taking the Syncro to Adelaide this weekend to have a sequential
injected LPG system fitted. I used to run the VW wbxer on LPG with the old fashioned
venturi type LPG system but the Subaru ECU was 'too clever' to be fooled by the ECU I used
for the VW engine. Apparently the SIS systems are a big improvement on the old systems -
no restriction on the air induction and much better control over the amount of LPG going
in to the injection.

I have been told there is either no loss of performance or sometimes even a slight increase
but either way, I can't wait.

Cheers,

Andy.
2

Hi Andy,

 

I always thought a ‘Subaru syncro’ on gas would be a great idea.  My 1990 WBX (now on the market, in favour of a TDI T5) has been on gas for years (that would be the old style conversion) and one significant concern is the (only occasional) tendency to backfire, which can sometimes do damage to the intake system.  I believe you will avoid this problem as well with the injected system.

 

Now, does any-one know of gas conversions for turbo diesels?

 

BRIAN REED

FAIRFIELD NATURAL THERAPIES

185 Wingrove St

Fairfield, Vic. 3078

03 9481 5673   0407 319 521

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of raredownunder
Sent: Friday, 16 February 2007 6:58 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Syncro Tour 2008 ? And LPG.

 

At the recent Batemans Bay get together was there any discussion of an '08 Syncro trip?

My brother and sister live near Towoomba in south east Qld and we will be spending next
Christmas with them and then possibly spending a bit of time (with the masses!) on the
north NSW coast before heading home. Unless of course there was a Syncro event
happening somewhere in the east.

I would love an excuse to take the Syncro instead of the (admittedly to me - free fuelled)
Kluger.

On a different topic, I am taking the Syncro to Adelaide this weekend to have a sequential
injected LPG system fitted. I used to run the VW wbxer on LPG with the old fashioned
venturi type LPG system but the Subaru ECU was 'too clever' to be fooled by the ECU I used
for the VW engine. Apparently the SIS systems are a big improvement on the old systems -
no restriction on the air induction and much better control over the amount of LPG going
in to the injection.

I have been told there is either no loss of performance or sometimes even a slight increase
but either way, I can't wait.

Cheers,

Andy.

3
Hi Brian
I think the only conversion at present for the TDI is bio diesel??
Cheap conversion to as u dont need to change anything according to the
Myth Busters.(SBS)

Wondering what is Octane rating or LPG? I have thought that the gas
option/conversion may not be so good for T3's as the octane rating is
lower and i think it takes 1.5ltrs of gas to get the same mileage as
in 1litre of petrol??

Andrew


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Reed" <breed@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Andy,
>
>
>
> I always thought a 'Subaru syncro' on gas would be a great idea. My
1990
> WBX (now on the market, in favour of a TDI T5) has been on gas for years
> (that would be the old style conversion) and one significant concern
is the
> (only occasional) tendency to backfire, which can sometimes do
damage to the
> intake system. I believe you will avoid this problem as well with the
> injected system.
>
>
>
> Now, does any-one know of gas conversions for turbo diesels?
>
>
>
> BRIAN REED
>
> FAIRFIELD NATURAL THERAPIES
>
> 185 Wingrove St
>
> Fairfield, Vic. 3078
>
> 03 9481 5673 0407 319 521
>
> _____
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of raredownunder
> Sent: Friday, 16 February 2007 6:58 PM
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Syncro Tour 2008 ? And LPG.
>
>
>
> At the recent Batemans Bay get together was there any discussion of
an '08
> Syncro trip?
>
> My brother and sister live near Towoomba in south east Qld and we
will be
> spending next
> Christmas with them and then possibly spending a bit of time (with the
> masses!) on the
> north NSW coast before heading home. Unless of course there was a Syncro
> event
> happening somewhere in the east.
>
> I would love an excuse to take the Syncro instead of the (admittedly
to me -
> free fuelled)
> Kluger.
>
> On a different topic, I am taking the Syncro to Adelaide this weekend to
> have a sequential
> injected LPG system fitted. I used to run the VW wbxer on LPG with
the old
> fashioned
> venturi type LPG system but the Subaru ECU was 'too clever' to be
fooled by
> the ECU I used
> for the VW engine. Apparently the SIS systems are a big improvement
on the
> old systems -
> no restriction on the air induction and much better control over the
amount
> of LPG going
> in to the injection.
>
> I have been told there is either no loss of performance or sometimes
even a
> slight increase
> but either way, I can't wait.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andy.
>
4
Brian,

I killed one AFM when my wbxer backfired once and it while it didn't happen a lot, both of
the Syncro's I ran on LPG did do it.

LPG/diesels are not uncommon. They run on (I think)) a mix or 80/20 diesel/LPG.
Apparently it significantly improves the combustion of the diesel with the result being a
reasonable improvement in power and torque.

When I was researching possibilities for my engine conversion I seriously considered a
Volkswagen/Audi etc 1.9 litre AAZ turbo diesel engine running with LPG and an
intercooler.
In fact, if I'f still been living in the UK this may well have been the conversion I would have
opted for. Back home here in Aus. I discounted it beacause of the lack of ability of parts.
Not to mention getting my hands on one of the engines.

My first T3 was a 1990 Camper with a JX 1.6 TD in it which didn't last long (literally) so I
put in an AAZ 1.9 TD. It was a fantastic engine - the torque was a joy - but with the
standard 185 14C tyres on it ran out of legs really quickly. Put one on LPG, add an
intercooler and upgrade the gearing to suit and you would have a great mechanically
injected TD engine.

Having said that, I love my EJ25 and it comed out of the packet with enough of
everything :-))

Cheers.
5
Excuse the message intercept..
Mixture of 80/20?
so running dual fuels at same time to achieve this blend is a strange
concept, obviously it works.
is this similiar to ethanol/alcohol in mexico/brazil??





--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "raredownunder"
<rafear@...> wrote:
>
> Brian,
>
> I killed one AFM when my wbxer backfired once and it while it didn't
happen a lot, both of
> the Syncro's I ran on LPG did do it.
>
> LPG/diesels are not uncommon. They run on (I think)) a mix or 80/20
diesel/LPG.
> Apparently it significantly improves the combustion of the diesel
with the result being a
> reasonable improvement in power and torque.
>
> When I was researching possibilities for my engine conversion I
seriously considered a
> Volkswagen/Audi etc 1.9 litre AAZ turbo diesel engine running with
LPG and an
> intercooler.
> In fact, if I'f still been living in the UK this may well have been
the conversion I would have
> opted for. Back home here in Aus. I discounted it beacause of the
lack of ability of parts.
> Not to mention getting my hands on one of the engines.
>
> My first T3 was a 1990 Camper with a JX 1.6 TD in it which didn't
last long (literally) so I
> put in an AAZ 1.9 TD. It was a fantastic engine - the torque was a
joy - but with the
> standard 185 14C tyres on it ran out of legs really quickly. Put one
on LPG, add an
> intercooler and upgrade the gearing to suit and you would have a
great mechanically
> injected TD engine.
>
> Having said that, I love my EJ25 and it comed out of the packet with
enough of
> everything :-))
>
> Cheers.
>
6
Ahhhh - the lovely smell and sound of alcohol powered VW's everywhere.
From my memory of when I travelled through Brasil, the sugar derived alcohol they use is
neat.


Don't believe all you hear from the nay sayers on how much more LPG is used in a vehicle
compared to petrol. Some (many) vehicles run really well on it. A few others are not so good.
My DJ powered Syncro had more backfing problems on LPG than my MV powered one but
probably otherwise ran better than the MV. This may well be due to the higher octane of the
LPG. I think it is up around the 108 mark but I'm sure someone on here will know for sure.

Anyway, the SIS systems are a huge improvement on what has been typically used over the
years.

Andy.
7

Hi Andrew,

 

Yes Bio-diesel would be good, but it is not a lot (if any) cheaper than regular diesel, unlike LPG. The LPG/diesel 80/20 mix that someone else mentioned sounds interesting. Not sure how it works tho’ as one is liquid and one is gas. Presumably injected separately. Any way, most of these options will have to wait till after the warranty period, I guess.

 

On octane ratings, LPG is actually higher than petrol, so you can run a higher compression.  I would have loved to put in European (DJ) pistons when I rebuilt my motor, but couldn’t source any quickly at the time.  Any loss in fuel economy (I find about 10% on average) is down to less sophisticated fuel management on older LPG conversions, or slightly lower energy density of LPG.

 

Re your front diff question;- syncros frequently break rear transaxles, especially if not looked after, but you rarely hear of a front diff problem (apart from the VC, which is really separate). They are usually only touched if people want to do a R & P change.  So it is a supply and demand issue.  No demand means low price for a second hand front diff.

 

BRIAN REED

FAIRFIELD NATURAL THERAPIES

185 Wingrove St

Fairfield, Vic. 3078

03 9481 5673   0407 319 521

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of syncrosity4now
Sent: Friday, 16 February 2007 9:49 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Syncro Tour 2008 ? And LPG.

 

Hi Brian
I think the only conversion at present for the TDI is bio diesel??
Cheap conversion to as u dont need to change anything according to the
Myth Busters.(SBS)

Wondering what is Octane rating or LPG? I have thought that the gas
option/conversion may not be so good for T3's as the octane rating is
lower and i think it takes 1.5ltrs of gas to get the same mileage as
in 1litre of petrol??

Andrew

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com, "Brian Reed" <breed@...>
wrote:

>
> Hi Andy,
>
>
>
> I always thought a 'Subaru syncro' on gas would be a great idea. My
1990
> WBX (now on the market, in favour of a TDI T5) has been on gas for years
> (that would be the old style conversion) and one significant concern
is the
> (only occasional) tendency to backfire, which can sometimes do
damage to the
> intake system. I believe you will avoid this problem as well with the
> injected system.
>
>
>
> Now, does any-one know of gas conversions for turbo diesels?
>
>
>
> BRIAN REED
>
> FAIRFIELD
NATURAL THERAPIES
>
> 185 Wingrove St
>
> Fairfield ,
Vic. 3078
>
> 03 9481 5673 0407 319 521
>
> _____
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com]
On Behalf Of raredownunder
> Sent: Friday, 16 February 2007 6:58 PM
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Syncro Tour 2008 ? And LPG.
>
>
>
> At the recent Batemans
Bay get together was there any discussion of
an '08
> Syncro trip?
>
> My brother and sister live near Towoomba in south east Qld and we
will be
> spending next
> Christmas with them and then possibly spending a bit of time (with the
> masses!) on the
> north NSW coast before heading home. Unless of course there was a Syncro
> event
> happening somewhere in the east.
>
> I would love an excuse to take the Syncro instead of the (admittedly
to me -
> free fuelled)
> Kluger.
>
> On a different topic, I am taking the Syncro to
w:st="on">Adelaide this weekend to
> have a sequential
> injected LPG system fitted. I used to run the VW wbxer on LPG with
the old
> fashioned
> venturi type LPG system but the Subaru ECU was 'too clever' to be
fooled by
> the ECU I used
> for the VW engine. Apparently the SIS systems are a big improvement
on the
> old systems -
> no restriction on the air induction and much better control over the
amount
> of LPG going
> in to the injection.
>
> I have been told there is either no loss of performance or sometimes
even a
> slight increase
> but either way, I can't wait.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andy.
>

8

Hi Andrew,

 

Couldn’t find my documentation on the octane of LPG but if i remember correctly it’s more then 100. As LPG is richer then the richest petrol commonly available on the market, the engine will get a bit hotter. On some cars you need to put in harder valves but that’s not necessary in our boxers. You could change the ignition timing but the differences between petrol and LPG differ depending what rpm your engine is doing. So on one point you should put it earlier and another point later.

If working with the old venture system your car’s top speed will decrease with 5 to 10 percent because it can’t get enough air. If you use an oversized venture there will be no power loss, on the contracy, you might get a light power increase. As to consumption the increase with the venture system is about 10% with LPG. But then you’re driving very environmentaly friendly. Apart from that, at least here in Belgium ,  it cost only 40% of the price of petrol. Here in Belgium we pay about 1250 euro for a venture system.

I think one can also run a DJ of MV on LPI. That way there is no powerloss at all and it won’t use more LPG then petrol either. These installations cost about 2000 euro over here.

One thing to keep in mind is that, because of the engine getting hotter, it’s not recommended to drive a long distance at full speed heavily loaded (unless you cool the oil, and add a diesel fan for hot countries instead of the “small” petrol fan.

 

Another remark, there’s a huge difference in biodiesel and vegetable oil. Best for nature is pure vegetable oil, you know, olive, sunflower, or whatever they are selling at your local supermarket. You can even burn waste frying oil, beg for waste at mc donalds (don’t forget to filter used oil though). One big disadvantage : you will feel hungry all day when you smell your exhaust, it really smell like French fries (which should actually call Belgian fries but that’s a bit off topic) Not all l veggie oils smell like fries though, you can do some experiments to find your favourite perfume.

In summer, autumn and spring you can pour 100 percent veggie oil in your diesel tank, in winter depending on your local climate off course, maybe like 50 %.  All you need to do is installing a relais on your diesel pump that heatens the veggie oil. I have to study that part a bit still J

Biodiesel is something else, they start from vegetable oil but then it passes a whole chemical process (which is not so environmental friendly) and then you can use it on most cars. Modern TDI’s are way too complicated to run on pure honest veggie oil. That’s why they came up with this biodiesel. We however, driving nice old 1600TD’s don’t have to use this alternative for vegetable oil, we can burn the pure stuff J

 

One more thing, when Diesel invented the diesel engine, diesel didn’t exist yet. Mr. Diesel designed his engine to run on pure vegetable oil. It was only later that the oil industry came with a lousy alternative fuel for vegetable oil, …. Diesel J

 

Mike plompen

www.busman.be

 

 

Van: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] Namens syncrosity4now
Verzonden: vrijdag 16 februari 2007 11:49
Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Syncro Tour 2008 ? And LPG.

 

Hi Brian
I think the only conversion at present for the TDI is bio diesel??
Cheap conversion to as u dont need to change anything according to the
Myth Busters.(SBS)

Wondering what is Octane rating or LPG? I have thought that the gas
option/conversion may not be so good for T3's as the octane rating is
lower and i think it takes 1.5ltrs of gas to get the same mileage as
in 1litre of petrol??

Andrew

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com, "Brian Reed" <breed@...>
wrote:

>
> Hi Andy,
>
>
>
> I always thought a 'Subaru syncro' on gas would be a great idea. My
1990
> WBX (now on the market, in favour of a TDI T5) has been on gas for years
> (that would be the old style conversion) and one significant concern
is the
> (only occasional) tendency to backfire, which can sometimes do
damage to the
> intake system. I believe you will avoid this problem as well with the
> injected system.
>
>
>
> Now, does any-one know of gas conversions for turbo diesels?
>
>
>
> BRIAN REED
>
> FAIRFIELD NATURAL THERAPIES
>
> 185 Wingrove St
>
> Fairfield, Vic. 3078
>
> 03 9481 5673 0407 319 521
>
> _____
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com]
On Behalf Of raredownunder
> Sent: Friday, 16 February 2007 6:58 PM
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Syncro Tour 2008 ? And LPG.
>
>
>
> At the recent Batemans Bay get together was there any discussion of
an '08
> Syncro trip?
>
> My brother and sister live near Towoomba in south east Qld and we
will be
> spending next
> Christmas with them and then possibly spending a bit of time (with the
> masses!) on the
> north NSW coast before heading home. Unless of course there was a Syncro
> event
> happening somewhere in the east.
>
> I would love an excuse to take the Syncro instead of the (admittedly
to me -
> free fuelled)
> Kluger.
>
> On a different topic, I am taking the Syncro to Adelaide this weekend to
> have a sequential
> injected LPG system fitted. I used to run the VW wbxer on LPG with
the old
> fashioned
> venturi type LPG system but the Subaru ECU was 'too clever' to be
fooled by
> the ECU I used
> for the VW engine. Apparently the SIS systems are a big improvement
on the
> old systems -
> no restriction on the air induction and much better control over the
amount
> of LPG going
> in to the injection.
>
> I have been told there is either no loss of performance or sometimes
even a
> slight increase
> but either way, I can't wait.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andy.
>

9

Hi brian and syncrosity4now,

 

Here’s an article of mixing diesel and LPG. Power increase 30%, torque increase 20%

http://groups.google.be/group/aus.cars/browse_thread/thread/37c9b88d343d0b1f/67d6996c050ca524%2367d6996c050ca524

 

mike plompen

 

Van: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] Namens syncrosity4now
Verzonden: vrijdag 16 februari 2007 12:11
Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Syncro Tour 2008 ? And LPG.

 

Excuse the message intercept..
Mixture of 80/20?
so running dual fuels at same time to achieve this blend is a strange
concept, obviously it works.
is this similiar to ethanol/alcohol in mexico/brazil? ?

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com, "raredownunder"
<rafear@...> wrote:

>
> Brian,
>
> I killed one AFM when my wbxer backfired once and it while it didn't
happen a lot, both of
> the Syncro's I ran on LPG did do it.
>
> LPG/diesels are not uncommon. They run on (I think)) a mix or 80/20
diesel/LPG.
> Apparently it significantly improves the combustion of the diesel
with the result being a
> reasonable improvement in power and torque.
>
> When I was researching possibilities for my engine conversion I
seriously considered a
> Volkswagen/Audi etc 1.9 litre AAZ turbo diesel engine running with
LPG and an
> intercooler.
> In fact, if I'f still been living in the UK this may well have been
the conversion I would have
> opted for. Back home here in Aus. I discounted it beacause of the
lack of ability of parts.
> Not to mention getting my hands on one of the engines.
>
> My first T3 was a 1990 Camper with a JX 1.6 TD in it which didn't
last long (literally) so I
> put in an AAZ 1.9 TD. It was a fantastic engine - the torque was a
joy - but with the
> standard 185 14C tyres on it ran out of legs really quickly. Put one
on LPG, add an
> intercooler and upgrade the gearing to suit and you would have a
great mechanically
> injected TD engine.
>
> Having said that, I love my EJ25 and it comed out of the packet with
enough of
> everything :-))
>
> Cheers.
>

10
Yes the mixture was an issue one would presume it would have to be
heavy liquid gas and not necessarily LPG as we know it???
As for the diff i have been doing some research and as u say it is
almost never heard of(breaking).

Andrew


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Reed" <breed@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Andrew,
>
>
>
> Yes Bio-diesel would be good, but it is not a lot (if any) cheaper than
> regular diesel, unlike LPG. The LPG/diesel 80/20 mix that someone else
> mentioned sounds interesting. Not sure how it works tho' as one is
liquid
> and one is gas. Presumably injected separately. Any way, most of these
> options will have to wait till after the warranty period, I guess.
>
>
>
> On octane ratings, LPG is actually higher than petrol, so you can run a
> higher compression. I would have loved to put in European (DJ)
pistons when
> I rebuilt my motor, but couldn't source any quickly at the time.
Any loss
> in fuel economy (I find about 10% on average) is down to less
sophisticated
> fuel management on older LPG conversions, or slightly lower energy
density
> of LPG.
>
>
>
> Re your front diff question;- syncros frequently break rear transaxles,
> especially if not looked after, but you rarely hear of a front diff
problem
> (apart from the VC, which is really separate). They are usually only
touched
> if people want to do a R & P change. So it is a supply and demand
issue.
> No demand means low price for a second hand front diff.
>
>
>
> BRIAN REED
>
> FAIRFIELD NATURAL THERAPIES
>
> 185 Wingrove St
>
> Fairfield, Vic. 3078
>
> 03 9481 5673 0407 319 521
>
> _____
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of syncrosity4now
> Sent: Friday, 16 February 2007 9:49 PM
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Syncro Tour 2008 ? And LPG.
>
>
>
> Hi Brian
> I think the only conversion at present for the TDI is bio diesel??
> Cheap conversion to as u dont need to change anything according to the
> Myth Busters.(SBS)
>
> Wondering what is Octane rating or LPG? I have thought that the gas
> option/conversion may not be so good for T3's as the octane rating is
> lower and i think it takes 1.5ltrs of gas to get the same mileage as
> in 1litre of petrol??
>
> Andrew
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia
<mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com, "Brian Reed" <breed@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Andy,
> >
> >
> >
> > I always thought a 'Subaru syncro' on gas would be a great idea. My
> 1990
> > WBX (now on the market, in favour of a TDI T5) has been on gas for
years
> > (that would be the old style conversion) and one significant concern
> is the
> > (only occasional) tendency to backfire, which can sometimes do
> damage to the
> > intake system. I believe you will avoid this problem as well with the
> > injected system.
> >
> >
> >
> > Now, does any-one know of gas conversions for turbo diesels?
> >
> >
> >
> > BRIAN REED
> >
> > FAIRFIELD NATURAL THERAPIES
> >
> > 185 Wingrove St
> >
> > Fairfield, Vic. 3078
> >
> > 03 9481 5673 0407 319 521
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: Syncro_T3_Australia
<mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
<mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of raredownunder
> > Sent: Friday, 16 February 2007 6:58 PM
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Syncro Tour 2008 ? And LPG.
> >
> >
> >
> > At the recent Batemans Bay get together was there any discussion of
> an '08
> > Syncro trip?
> >
> > My brother and sister live near Towoomba in south east Qld and we
> will be
> > spending next
> > Christmas with them and then possibly spending a bit of time (with the
> > masses!) on the
> > north NSW coast before heading home. Unless of course there was a
Syncro
> > event
> > happening somewhere in the east.
> >
> > I would love an excuse to take the Syncro instead of the (admittedly
> to me -
> > free fuelled)
> > Kluger.
> >
> > On a different topic, I am taking the Syncro to Adelaide this
weekend to
> > have a sequential
> > injected LPG system fitted. I used to run the VW wbxer on LPG with
> the old
> > fashioned
> > venturi type LPG system but the Subaru ECU was 'too clever' to be
> fooled by
> > the ECU I used
> > for the VW engine. Apparently the SIS systems are a big improvement
> on the
> > old systems -
> > no restriction on the air induction and much better control over the
> amount
> > of LPG going
> > in to the injection.
> >
> > I have been told there is either no loss of performance or sometimes
> even a
> > slight increase
> > but either way, I can't wait.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Andy.
> >
>
11
Thanks Mike as this was eye opening and although i dont own a diesel
anything, i always like the idea of alternatives. No i aint no hippy,
not that theres anything wrong with the hippie idea.

The venture u speak of is it a "venturi system", ahh crap, what where
they used in, i believe the old Truimph 2000's with mechanical fuel
injection mid to late 70's, among others but this is the one that
springs to mind.

Anyway I always thought the oil companies had a good thing going. And
one day we shall all be held to ransom..
Andrew


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <borzeken@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Andrew,
>
>
>
> Couldn't find my documentation on the octane of LPG but if i remember
> correctly it's more then 100. As LPG is richer then the richest petrol
> commonly available on the market, the engine will get a bit hotter.
On some
> cars you need to put in harder valves but that's not necessary in our
> boxers. You could change the ignition timing but the differences between
> petrol and LPG differ depending what rpm your engine is doing. So on one
> point you should put it earlier and another point later.
>
> If working with the old venture system your car's top speed will
decrease
> with 5 to 10 percent because it can't get enough air. If you use an
> oversized venture there will be no power loss, on the contracy, you
might
> get a light power increase. As to consumption the increase with the
venture
> system is about 10% with LPG. But then you're driving very
environmentaly
> friendly. Apart from that, at least here in Belgium, it cost only
40% of
> the price of petrol. Here in Belgium we pay about 1250 euro for a
venture
> system.
>
> I think one can also run a DJ of MV on LPI. That way there is no
powerloss
> at all and it won't use more LPG then petrol either. These installations
> cost about 2000 euro over here.
>
> One thing to keep in mind is that, because of the engine getting hotter,
> it's not recommended to drive a long distance at full speed heavily
loaded
> (unless you cool the oil, and add a diesel fan for hot countries
instead of
> the "small" petrol fan.
>
>
>
> Another remark, there's a huge difference in biodiesel and vegetable
oil.
> Best for nature is pure vegetable oil, you know, olive, sunflower, or
> whatever they are selling at your local supermarket. You can even
burn waste
> frying oil, beg for waste at mc donalds (don't forget to filter used oil
> though). One big disadvantage : you will feel hungry all day when
you smell
> your exhaust, it really smell like French fries (which should
actually call
> Belgian fries but that's a bit off topic) Not all l veggie oils
smell like
> fries though, you can do some experiments to find your favourite
perfume.
>
> In summer, autumn and spring you can pour 100 percent veggie oil in your
> diesel tank, in winter depending on your local climate off course, maybe
> like 50 %. All you need to do is installing a relais on your diesel
pump
> that heatens the veggie oil. I have to study that part a bit still :-)
>
> Biodiesel is something else, they start from vegetable oil but then it
> passes a whole chemical process (which is not so environmental
friendly) and
> then you can use it on most cars. Modern TDI's are way too
complicated to
> run on pure honest veggie oil. That's why they came up with this
biodiesel.
> We however, driving nice old 1600TD's don't have to use this
alternative for
> vegetable oil, we can burn the pure stuff :-)
>
>
>
> One more thing, when Diesel invented the diesel engine, diesel
didn't exist
> yet. Mr. Diesel designed his engine to run on pure vegetable oil. It was
> only later that the oil industry came with a lousy alternative fuel for
> vegetable oil, .. Diesel :-)
>
>
>
> Mike plompen
>
> www.busman.be <http://www.busman.be/>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Van: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] Namens syncrosity4now
> Verzonden: vrijdag 16 februari 2007 11:49
> Aan: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Onderwerp: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Syncro Tour 2008 ? And LPG.
>
>
>
> Hi Brian
> I think the only conversion at present for the TDI is bio diesel??
> Cheap conversion to as u dont need to change anything according to the
> Myth Busters.(SBS)
>
> Wondering what is Octane rating or LPG? I have thought that the gas
> option/conversion may not be so good for T3's as the octane rating is
> lower and i think it takes 1.5ltrs of gas to get the same mileage as
> in 1litre of petrol??
>
> Andrew
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia
<mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com, "Brian Reed" <breed@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Andy,
> >
> >
> >
> > I always thought a 'Subaru syncro' on gas would be a great idea. My
> 1990
> > WBX (now on the market, in favour of a TDI T5) has been on gas for
years
> > (that would be the old style conversion) and one significant concern
> is the
> > (only occasional) tendency to backfire, which can sometimes do
> damage to the
> > intake system. I believe you will avoid this problem as well with the
> > injected system.
> >
> >
> >
> > Now, does any-one know of gas conversions for turbo diesels?
> >
> >
> >
> > BRIAN REED
> >
> > FAIRFIELD NATURAL THERAPIES
> >
> > 185 Wingrove St
> >
> > Fairfield, Vic. 3078
> >
> > 03 9481 5673 0407 319 521
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: Syncro_T3_Australia
<mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia
<mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of raredownunder
> > Sent: Friday, 16 February 2007 6:58 PM
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia <mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com>
> @yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Syncro Tour 2008 ? And LPG.
> >
> >
> >
> > At the recent Batemans Bay get together was there any discussion of
> an '08
> > Syncro trip?
> >
> > My brother and sister live near Towoomba in south east Qld and we
> will be
> > spending next
> > Christmas with them and then possibly spending a bit of time (with the
> > masses!) on the
> > north NSW coast before heading home. Unless of course there was a
Syncro
> > event
> > happening somewhere in the east.
> >
> > I would love an excuse to take the Syncro instead of the (admittedly
> to me -
> > free fuelled)
> > Kluger.
> >
> > On a different topic, I am taking the Syncro to Adelaide this
weekend to
> > have a sequential
> > injected LPG system fitted. I used to run the VW wbxer on LPG with
> the old
> > fashioned
> > venturi type LPG system but the Subaru ECU was 'too clever' to be
> fooled by
> > the ECU I used
> > for the VW engine. Apparently the SIS systems are a big improvement
> on the
> > old systems -
> > no restriction on the air induction and much better control over the
> amount
> > of LPG going
> > in to the injection.
> >
> > I have been told there is either no loss of performance or sometimes
> even a
> > slight increase
> > but either way, I can't wait.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Andy.
> >
>
12
Hi Andy

There certainly was talk of a 08 tour although as far as i know nothing was set in stone. Part of the challenge was to decide on an appropriate area to visit that at least one member of the tour team has good local knowledge of (and somewhere that wouldn't be teeming with people in what would probably be school holiday time). Another option that was discussed was the idea of going back to the area near Batemans Bay on a biannual basis given its general suitability. As I recall most involved wished to keep to the general informality of the 07 event going and were open to suggestions on future destinations.

Cheers
Murray




-----Original Message-----
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com on behalf of raredownunder
Sent: Fri 16/02/2007 6:58 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Syncro Tour 2008 ? And LPG.

At the recent Batemans Bay get together was there any discussion of an '08 Syncro trip?

My brother and sister live near Towoomba in south east Qld and we will be spending next
Christmas with them and then possibly spending a bit of time (with the masses!) on the
north NSW coast before heading home. Unless of course there was a Syncro event
happening somewhere in the east.

I would love an excuse to take the Syncro instead of the (admittedly to me - free fuelled)
Kluger.

On a different topic, I am taking the Syncro to Adelaide this weekend to have a sequential
injected LPG system fitted. I used to run the VW wbxer on LPG with the old fashioned
venturi type LPG system but the Subaru ECU was 'too clever' to be fooled by the ECU I used
for the VW engine. Apparently the SIS systems are a big improvement on the old systems -
no restriction on the air induction and much better control over the amount of LPG going
in to the injection.

I have been told there is either no loss of performance or sometimes even a slight increase
but either way, I can't wait.

Cheers,

Andy.
13
Gday Andy and ALL,

Murray's got it spot-on and the question unresolved was yes or no about
a Tour in 2008 and if so, where and who to lead it with local knowledge.

I mentioned Tasmania and dobbed in Roger as tour leader seeing as he's
just been there or alternatively Bribie Island, Qld and environs. Rumour
has it the odd Syncro or three has been seen there and maybe the local
lad could help out there. So the question remains for us all to mull
over. Cheers.

Ken


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Murray Lee" <m.lee@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Andy
>
> There certainly was talk of a 08 tour although as far as i know
nothing was set in stone. Part of the challenge was to decide on an
appropriate area to visit that at least one member of the tour team has
good local knowledge of (and somewhere that wouldn't be teeming with
people in what would probably be school holiday time). Another option
that was discussed was the idea of going back to the area near Batemans
Bay on a biannual basis given its general suitability. As I recall most
involved wished to keep to the general informality of the 07 event going
and were open to suggestions on future destinations.
>
> Cheers
> Murray
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com on behalf of raredownunder
> Sent: Fri 16/02/2007 6:58 PM
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Syncro Tour 2008 ? And LPG.
>
> At the recent Batemans Bay get together was there any discussion of an
'08 Syncro trip?
>
> My brother and sister live near Towoomba in south east Qld and we will
be spending next
> Christmas with them and then possibly spending a bit of time (with the
masses!) on the
> north NSW coast before heading home. Unless of course there was a
Syncro event
> happening somewhere in the east.
>
> I would love an excuse to take the Syncro instead of the (admittedly
to me - free fuelled)
> Kluger.
>
> On a different topic, I am taking the Syncro to Adelaide this weekend
to have a sequential
> injected LPG system fitted. I used to run the VW wbxer on LPG with the
old fashioned
> venturi type LPG system but the Subaru ECU was 'too clever' to be
fooled by the ECU I used
> for the VW engine. Apparently the SIS systems are a big improvement on
the old systems -
> no restriction on the air induction and much better control over the
amount of LPG going
> in to the injection.
>
> I have been told there is either no loss of performance or sometimes
even a slight increase
> but either way, I can't wait.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andy.
>
14
Bribie Island, I wonder who it is that would be leader up that way??
Damm Tassie is a long way for some, wonder where the clubs main
population is/ where we all are geographically??
I dont know i am trying to make it my first meet, so i will try to
make it anywhere.
I wonder if there is somewhere central to all???
Andrew

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> Gday Andy and ALL,
>
> Murray's got it spot-on and the question unresolved was yes or no about
> a Tour in 2008 and if so, where and who to lead it with local knowledge.
>
> I mentioned Tasmania and dobbed in Roger as tour leader seeing as he's
> just been there or alternatively Bribie Island, Qld and environs. Rumour
> has it the odd Syncro or three has been seen there and maybe the local
> lad could help out there. So the question remains for us all to mull
> over. Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Murray Lee" <m.lee@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Andy
> >
> > There certainly was talk of a 08 tour although as far as i know
> nothing was set in stone. Part of the challenge was to decide on an
> appropriate area to visit that at least one member of the tour team has
> good local knowledge of (and somewhere that wouldn't be teeming with
> people in what would probably be school holiday time). Another option
> that was discussed was the idea of going back to the area near Batemans
> Bay on a biannual basis given its general suitability. As I recall most
> involved wished to keep to the general informality of the 07 event going
> and were open to suggestions on future destinations.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Murray
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com on behalf of raredownunder
> > Sent: Fri 16/02/2007 6:58 PM
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Syncro Tour 2008 ? And LPG.
> >
> > At the recent Batemans Bay get together was there any discussion of an
> '08 Syncro trip?
> >
> > My brother and sister live near Towoomba in south east Qld and we will
> be spending next
> > Christmas with them and then possibly spending a bit of time (with the
> masses!) on the
> > north NSW coast before heading home. Unless of course there was a
> Syncro event
> > happening somewhere in the east.
> >
> > I would love an excuse to take the Syncro instead of the (admittedly
> to me - free fuelled)
> > Kluger.
> >
> > On a different topic, I am taking the Syncro to Adelaide this weekend
> to have a sequential
> > injected LPG system fitted. I used to run the VW wbxer on LPG with the
> old fashioned
> > venturi type LPG system but the Subaru ECU was 'too clever' to be
> fooled by the ECU I used
> > for the VW engine. Apparently the SIS systems are a big improvement on
> the old systems -
> > no restriction on the air induction and much better control over the
> amount of LPG going
> > in to the injection.
> >
> > I have been told there is either no loss of performance or sometimes
> even a slight increase
> > but either way, I can't wait.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Andy.
> >
>