Trakka wheel nuts

1
Hello As I am sure owners of Trakka,s are aware the wheel nuts on the original CSA rims are prone to breaking (usually only when worked on by someone else), As one of mine has just done.

I am curious as to how others have gone about rectifying the problem of missing wheel nuts that appear to be no longer available.

I have located similar nuts (as in thread size) from Canterbury wheels in Melbourne that require me to bore out the holes in the rim about 1.5mm more to fit.
Then boring out the original washers to fit the larger nuts they can be re used.

Am I creating other issues here or is there a better way to go with nut replacements.

Thanks Greg
2
We need more information.
Can you email me some photos of the nuts and wheels?

Phill

plander@optusnet.com.au



> Greg <greg_navarro95@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hello As I am sure owners of Trakka,s are aware the wheel nuts on the
> original CSA rims are prone to breaking (usually only when worked on by
> someone else), As one of mine has just done.
>
> I am curious as to how others have gone about rectifying the problem of
> missing wheel nuts that appear to be no longer available.
>
> I have located similar nuts (as in thread size) from Canterbury wheels
> in Melbourne that require me to bore out the holes in the rim about
> 1.5mm more to fit.
> Then boring out the original washers to fit the larger nuts they can be
> re used.
>
> Am I creating other issues here or is there a better way to go with nut
> replacements.
>
> Thanks Greg
3
Hi Phil Having trouble getting photos off my camera at the moment.

The main issue is I have found similar wheel nuts to my old nuts but they are 1.5mm bigger in diameter. So I am talking to a machinest about making each hole in the rim biggger by 1.5mm to accomodate the new nuts. Qs is would this reduce the integrity of the rim?

Has anyone else done this to their Trakka rims? Greg





--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
>
>
> We need more information.
> Can you email me some photos of the nuts and wheels?
>
> Phill
>
> plander@...
>
>
>
> > Greg <greg_navarro95@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hello As I am sure owners of Trakka,s are aware the wheel nuts on the
> > original CSA rims are prone to breaking (usually only when worked on by
> > someone else), As one of mine has just done.
> >
> > I am curious as to how others have gone about rectifying the problem of
> > missing wheel nuts that appear to be no longer available.
> >
> > I have located similar nuts (as in thread size) from Canterbury wheels
> > in Melbourne that require me to bore out the holes in the rim about
> > 1.5mm more to fit.
> > Then boring out the original washers to fit the larger nuts they can be
> > re used.
> >
> > Am I creating other issues here or is there a better way to go with nut
> > replacements.
> >
> > Thanks Greg
>
4
Greg,

I have CSA rims on my syncro. (see attached photo)

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~pjlander/images/syncro3.jpg

These rims were machined for Mercedes which had 12mm wheel bolts. The syncro has 14mm and so the radius (ball taper) is different. I used standard VW 14mm nuts and had them machined to the radius of 12mm nuts.

Phill





> Greg <greg_navarro95@yahoo.com> wrote:
>

Hi Phil Having trouble getting photos off my camera at the moment.

The main issue is I have found similar wheel nuts to my old nuts but they are 1.5mm bigger
in diameter. So I am talking to a machinest about making each hole in the rim biggger by
1.5mm to accomodate the new nuts. Qs is would this reduce the integrity of the rim?

Has anyone else done this to their Trakka rims? Greg
5
I'm curious if you guys really need and use those giant bumpers and roo bars on the front of your Syncro T3 Vans.
there's a white one I've seen a picture of that has a full front cage, from bumper to roof.
 
thanks for your comments.
scott
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Trakka wheel nuts

 

Greg,

I have CSA rims on my syncro. (see attached photo)

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~pjlander/images/syncro3.jpg

These rims were machined for Mercedes which had 12mm wheel bolts. The syncro has 14mm and so the radius (ball taper) is different. I used standard VW 14mm nuts and had them machined to the radius of 12mm nuts.

Phill

> Greg <greg_navarro95@yahoo.com> wrote:
>

Hi Phil Having trouble getting photos off my camera at the moment.

The main issue is I have found similar wheel nuts to my old nuts but they are 1.5mm bigger
in diameter. So I am talking to a machinest about making each hole in the rim biggger by
1.5mm to accomodate the new nuts. Qs is would this reduce the integrity of the rim?

Has anyone else done this to their Trakka rims? Greg

6
Depends on what you are likely to run over.....I wouldn't take mine off.....

Michael Hutchinson, Townsville, 88 Syncro, Manx buggys all powered by SUBARU!!!!!!!

From: "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <ScottDaniel@turbovans.com>
Sender: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 16:16:28 -0700
To: <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Trakka wheel nuts

 

I'm curious if you guys really need and use those giant bumpers and roo bars on the front of your Syncro T3 Vans.
there's a white one I've seen a picture of that has a full front cage, from bumper to roof.
 
thanks for your comments.
scott
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Trakka wheel nuts

 

Greg,

I have CSA rims on my syncro. (see attached photo)

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~pjlander/images/syncro3.jpg

These rims were machined for Mercedes which had 12mm wheel bolts. The syncro has 14mm and so the radius (ball taper) is different. I used standard VW 14mm nuts and had them machined to the radius of 12mm nuts.

Phill

> Greg <greg_navarro95@yahoo.com> wrote:
>

Hi Phil Having trouble getting photos off my camera at the moment.

The main issue is I have found similar wheel nuts to my old nuts but they are 1.5mm bigger
in diameter. So I am talking to a machinest about making each hole in the rim biggger by
1.5mm to accomodate the new nuts. Qs is would this reduce the integrity of the rim?

Has anyone else done this to their Trakka rims? Greg

7
Hi Phill, 89 Trakka's have a different CSA rim (see photos section "89 Syncro" 3rd set in) They use a nut with a shank, the shank goes inside the rim and is about 20mm long. The nut head seats onto the face of the rim with a washer so nut doesnt gouge in to rim. Greg

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
>
> Greg,
>
> I have CSA rims on my syncro. (see attached photo)
>
> http://members.ozemail.com.au/~pjlander/images/syncro3.jpg
>
> These rims were machined for Mercedes which had 12mm wheel bolts. The syncro has 14mm and so the radius (ball taper) is different. I used standard VW 14mm nuts and had them machined to the radius of 12mm nuts.
>
> Phill
>
>
>
>
>
> > Greg <greg_navarro95@...> wrote:
> >
>
> Hi Phil Having trouble getting photos off my camera at the moment.
>
> The main issue is I have found similar wheel nuts to my old nuts but they are 1.5mm bigger
> in diameter. So I am talking to a machinest about making each hole in the rim biggger by
> 1.5mm to accomodate the new nuts. Qs is would this reduce the integrity of the rim?
>
> Has anyone else done this to their Trakka rims? Greg
>
8
I think that I may have had those nuts on a previous Kombi. The stud was not long enough and did not engauge the hex part of the nut. I went to ROH(?) and found that they had thinner washers which allowed 2 threads into the hex part which solved the problem. These nuts should not be a problem to get.

Try Bob Janes, Speedy Wheels, Tempe tyres.



> Greg <greg_navarro95@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Phill, 89 Trakka's have a different CSA rim (see photos section "89
> Syncro" 3rd set in) They use a nut with a shank, the shank goes inside
> the rim and is about 20mm long. The nut head seats onto the face of the
> rim with a washer so nut doesnt gouge in to rim. Greg
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
> >
> > Greg,
> >
> > I have CSA rims on my syncro. (see attached photo)
> >
> > http://members.ozemail.com.au/~pjlander/images/syncro3.jpg
> >
> > These rims were machined for Mercedes which had 12mm wheel bolts. The
> syncro has 14mm and so the radius (ball taper) is different. I used
> standard VW 14mm nuts and had them machined to the radius of 12mm nuts.
> >
> > Phill
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Greg <greg_navarro95@...> wrote:
> > >
> >
> > Hi Phil Having trouble getting photos off my camera at the moment.
> >
> > The main issue is I have found similar wheel nuts to my old nuts but
> they are 1.5mm bigger
> > in diameter. So I am talking to a machinest about making each hole in
> the rim biggger by
> > 1.5mm to accomodate the new nuts. Qs is would this reduce the
> integrity of the rim?
> >
> > Has anyone else done this to their Trakka rims? Greg
> >
9
I had a look at my '90 Trakka rims recently (the same CSA ones) and found they had an ET of what I worked out as about 10mm. I think that means bearing wear is likely to be far greater as the wheel width centre is so far outside the designers intended wheel width centre. The 15" wheels are in great condition apart from that with great almost new tyres, but seriously thinking about getting some with the right ET anyway. Any thoughts? Regards. Nick

--- On Sun, 29/5/11, Greg <greg_navarro95@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Greg <greg_navarro95@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Trakka wheel nuts
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Received: Sunday, 29 May, 2011, 11:56 PM

 


Hi Phill, 89 Trakka's have a different CSA rim (see photos section "89 Syncro" 3rd set in) They use a nut with a shank, the shank goes inside the rim and is about 20mm long. The nut head seats onto the face of the rim with a washer so nut doesnt gouge in to rim. Greg

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
>
> Greg,
>
> I have CSA rims on my syncro. (see attached photo)
>
> http://members.ozemail.com.au/~pjlander/images/syncro3.jpg
>
> These rims were machined for Mercedes which had 12mm wheel bolts. The syncro has 14mm and so the radius (ball taper) is different. I used standard VW 14mm nuts and had them machined to the radius of 12mm nuts.
>
> Phill
>
>
>
>
>
> > Greg <greg_navarro95@...> wrote:
> >
>
> Hi Phil Having trouble getting photos off my camera at the moment.
>
> The main issue is I have found similar wheel nuts to my old nuts but they are 1.5mm bigger
> in diameter. So I am talking to a machinest about making each hole in the rim biggger by
> 1.5mm to accomodate the new nuts. Qs is would this reduce the integrity of the rim?
>
> Has anyone else done this to their Trakka rims? Greg
>

10
The ET is stamped on the wheel.



> Nicholas Fletcher <nwjfletcher@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I had a look at my '90 Trakka rims recently (the same CSA ones) and
> found they had an ET of what I worked out as about 10mm. I think that
> means bearing wear is likely to be far greater as the wheel width centre
> is so far outside the designers intended wheel width centre. The 15"
> wheels are in great condition apart from that with great almost new
> tyres, but seriously thinking about getting some with the right ET
> anyway. Any thoughts? Regards. Nick
>
11
The ET should be stamped on the rim...if they're 15x7 I think you should be aiming for around ET35....

Michael Hutchinson, Townsville, 88 Syncro, Manx buggys all powered by SUBARU!!!!!!!

From: Nicholas Fletcher <nwjfletcher@yahoo.com>
Sender: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 15:25:33 -0700 (PDT)
To: <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Trakka wheel nuts

 

I had a look at my '90 Trakka rims recently (the same CSA ones) and found they had an ET of what I worked out as about 10mm. I think that means bearing wear is likely to be far greater as the wheel width centre is so far outside the designers intended wheel width centre. The 15" wheels are in great condition apart from that with great almost new tyres, but seriously thinking about getting some with the right ET anyway. Any thoughts? Regards. Nick

--- On Sun, 29/5/11, Greg <greg_navarro95@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Greg <greg_navarro95@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Trakka wheel nuts
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Received: Sunday, 29 May, 2011, 11:56 PM

 


Hi Phill, 89 Trakka's have a different CSA rim (see photos section "89 Syncro" 3rd set in) They use a nut with a shank, the shank goes inside the rim and is about 20mm long. The nut head seats onto the face of the rim with a washer so nut doesnt gouge in to rim. Greg

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
>
> Greg,
>
> I have CSA rims on my syncro. (see attached photo)
>
> http://members.ozemail.com.au/~pjlander/images/syncro3.jpg
>
> These rims were machined for Mercedes which had 12mm wheel bolts. The syncro has 14mm and so the radius (ball taper) is different. I used standard VW 14mm nuts and had them machined to the radius of 12mm nuts.
>
> Phill
>
>
>
>
>
> > Greg <greg_navarro95@...> wrote:
> >
>
> Hi Phil Having trouble getting photos off my camera at the moment.
>
> The main issue is I have found similar wheel nuts to my old nuts but they are 1.5mm bigger
> in diameter. So I am talking to a machinest about making each hole in the rim biggger by
> 1.5mm to accomodate the new nuts. Qs is would this reduce the integrity of the rim?
>
> Has anyone else done this to their Trakka rims? Greg
>

12
All,
Just to reiterate what has been discussed on many previous occasions about searching for suitable alternative rims for our syncros and issues concerning correct ET (offset).

Les has previously described here the methodology for determining a rims ET, as follows. I have altered it slightly for further clarity for newbies, the methodology he described remains exactly the same as follows ...

Wheels and ET, by Les Harris

To measure the offset, take the wheel off the vehicle, lie it on a smooth flat surface with the inside uppermost.

1.       Put a straight-edge over the top of the tyre then measure and notate the overall width from the underside of the straightedge to the floor.

2.       Measure and notate from the underside of the straight-edge to the surface that mounts to the hub.

3.       Halve the overall width (1) and subtract that from the measurement to the mounting surface (2).

That result is the ET offset.

This would normally be done without the tyre mounted to the rim but you will get a sufficiently accurate measurement to give a close approximation of the actual offset.

 

Now using Les's above methodology, below I set out two examples to prove it:

  1. Original VW Syncro 14” steel rim, stamped: - 251 601 027 - 6Jx14 H2 - ET30

Measurement as per 1  =             218mm (Michelin “X” 205 R14 inflated tyre)

Measurement as per 2  =             139mm

Halve 1 as per 3           =             109mm

Subtract 3 from 2         =                30mm

This proves Les’s methodology, this rim is stamped ET30 as above.

 

  1. Mercedes  15” steel rim, stamped: - 124 400 0602 - 6Jx15 H2 - ET49

Measurement as per 1  =             230mm (Goodyear Wrangler AT/R 215 R15 inflated tyre)

Measurement as per 2  =             146mm

Halve 1 as per 3           =             115mm

Subtract 3 from 2         =               31mm

Same proven methodology, BUT this rim is stamped ET49 as above. Go figure!


In the past, members have posted queries concerning suitability of Mercedes 15” steel rims stamped ET49. I can’t say what methodology Mercedes use to arrive at an ET of 49. All I do know is that Les’s methodology, as proven above, produced an ET of 31 for this Mercedes 15” steel rim stamped ET49. So I suggest these Merc rims ET should at least be checked.


On a related issue, agreed these Merc 15” rims have thinner walls than original syncro 14” steel rims as above. However, real life experience through at least 4 owners since 1992 when these Merc 15” rims were first fitted and have travelled to who knows where around Oz (my limited records show my syncro has at least once toured north west WA in 1992) and these rims remain totally undamaged to this day, despite an all up weight when fully kitted out in excess of 2.5 tonnes. So people can theorise all they like about the suitability or not of Merc 15” steel rims, but here is a real life example of my syncro and I can confirm trouble free/undamaged use of them for the past 19 years.

Cheers.

Ken



To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: plander@optusnet.com.au
Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 08:38:42 +1000
Subject: Re: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Trakka wheel nuts

 
The ET is stamped on the wheel.

> Nicholas Fletcher <nwjfletcher@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I had a look at my '90 Trakka rims recently (the same CSA ones) and
> found they had an ET of what I worked out as about 10mm. I think that
> means bearing wear is likely to be far greater as the wheel width centre
> is so far outside the designers intended wheel width centre. The 15"
> wheels are in great condition apart from that with great almost new
> tyres, but seriously thinking about getting some with the right ET
> anyway. Any thoughts? Regards. Nick
>

13
On 31/05/2011 1:06 PM, Ken Garratt wrote:
 

All,

Just to reiterate what has been discussed on many previous occasions about searching for suitable alternative rims for our syncros and issues concerning correct ET (offset).

Les has previously described here the methodology for determining a rims ET, as follows. I have altered it slightly for further clarity for newbies, the methodology he described remains exactly the same as follows ...

Wheels and ET, by Les Harris

To measure the offset, take the wheel off the vehicle, lie it on a smooth flat surface with the inside uppermost.

1.       Put a straight-edge over the top of the tyre then measure and notate the overall width from the underside of the straightedge to the floor.

2.       Measure and notate from the underside of the straight-edge to the surface that mounts to the hub.

3.       Halve the overall width (1) and subtract that from the measurement to the mounting surface (2).

That result is the ET offset.

This would normally be done without the tyre mounted to the rim but you will get a sufficiently accurate measurement to give a close approximation of the actual offset.

 

Now using Les's above methodology, below I set out two examples to prove it:

  1. Original VW Syncro 14” steel rim, stamped: - 251 601 027 - 6Jx14 H2 - ET30

Measurement as per 1  =             218mm (Michelin “X” 205 R14 inflated tyre)

Measurement as per 2  =             139mm

Halve 1 as per 3           =             109mm

Subtract 3 from 2         =                30mm

This proves Les’s methodology, this rim is stamped ET30 as above.

 

  1. Mercedes  15” steel rim, stamped: - 124 400 0602 - 6Jx15 H2 - ET49

Measurement as per 1  =             230mm (Goodyear Wrangler AT/R 215 R15 inflated tyre)

Measurement as per 2  =             146mm

Halve 1 as per 3           =             115mm

Subtract 3 from 2         =               31mm

Same proven methodology, BUT this rim is stamped ET49 as above. Go figure!


In the past, members have posted queries concerning suitability of Mercedes 15” steel rims stamped ET49. I can’t say what methodology Mercedes use to arrive at an ET of 49. All I do know is that Les’s methodology, as proven above, produced an ET of 31 for this Mercedes 15” steel rim stamped ET49. So I suggest these Merc rims ET should at least be checked.


On a related issue, agreed these Merc 15” rims have thinner walls than original syncro 14” steel rims as above. However, real life experience through at least 4 owners since 1992 when these Merc 15” rims were first fitted and have travelled to who knows where around Oz (my limited records show my syncro has at least once toured north west WA in 1992) and these rims remain totally undamaged to this day, despite an all up weight when fully kitted out in excess of 2.5 tonnes. So people can theorise all they like about the suitability or not of Merc 15” steel rims, but here is a real life example of my syncro and I can confirm trouble free/undamaged use of them for the past 19 years.

Cheers.

Ken



To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: plander@optusnet.com.au
Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 08:38:42 +1000
Subject: Re: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Trakka wheel nuts

 
The ET is stamped on the wheel.

> Nicholas Fletcher <nwjfletcher@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I had a look at my '90 Trakka rims recently (the same CSA ones) and
> found they had an ET of what I worked out as about 10mm. I think that
> means bearing wear is likely to be far greater as the wheel width centre
> is so far outside the designers intended wheel width centre. The 15"
> wheels are in great condition apart from that with great almost new
> tyres, but seriously thinking about getting some with the right ET
> anyway. Any thoughts? Regards. Nick
> 



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
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Fantasic bit of info there Ken / Les you have hit the nail right on the head, as i have been searching for answers to these questions!!!.
Regards Richard.
14

I have posted several times over the years on the subject of wheel offset and it appears to be time to refresh this information.

Wheel offset (ET in German, P or N in English) is a mechanical design function of the suspension and steering geometry.   It is NOT a cosmetic consideration!!

The purpose of offset is to ensure that the centre of the tyre contact patch meets the centreline of the king pin axis where it contacts the road.   When a wheel of a non standard offset is fitted to a vehicle, it can affect the precision of the steering and it will always affect the loading on the wheel bearings.  

Given the safety load factor built into the design, it is possible to get away with it in many applications but will usually accelerate bearing wear.

However, there is a sting in the tail.   In the event of an accident, an insurance company is legally entitled to refuse to pay out if the vehicle is fitted with the incorrect offset wheels.   It doesn’t happen often but it hurts rather a lot when it does!

Les

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

15
Ah, the 'P' for english wheels is useful... my trakka '90 CSA wheels are stamped 15P and that matches with the 230mm full width and 130mm to hub measurements. Why would Trakka put such wrong wheels on their vehicles I wonder. There are pics on the forum of my van ('90 hi top Trakka) and I have seen other Trakka's with the same wheels. Thanks for the info. Maybe I will get some others then.

nick

--- On Tue, 31/5/11, Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

From: Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Wheels and ET
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Received: Tuesday, 31 May, 2011, 11:28 AM

 

I have posted several times over the years on the subject of wheel offset and it appears to be time to refresh this information.

Wheel offset (ET in German, P or N in English) is a mechanical design function of the suspension and steering geometry.   It is NOT a cosmetic consideration!!

The purpose of offset is to ensure that the centre of the tyre contact patch meets the centreline of the king pin axis where it contacts the road.   When a wheel of a non standard offset is fitted to a vehicle, it can affect the precision of the steering and it will always affect the loading on the wheel bearings.  

Given the safety load factor built into the design, it is possible to get away with it in many applications but will usually accelerate bearing wear.

However, there is a sting in the tail.   In the event of an accident, an insurance company is legally entitled to refuse to pay out if the vehicle is fitted with the incorrect offset wheels.   It doesn’t happen often but it hurts rather a lot when it does!

Les

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

16
Les, could you please explain the effects of incorrect offsets on steering and if it can be corrected by different wheel alignment specs. I ask these questions because I have 2 t3's (2wd) with 14x7 and 15x7 et 11 wheels -thats how I bought them. My syncro has 16x7 et 25, and I feel that this is pretty close to original specs, so not too worried about that- In tradie's language if you can. Thanks Eddie.
By the way one of the 2wd's has done a squillion kays and been truly "bashed" but has never had a wheel bearing changed.
--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Les Harris" <leslieharris@...> wrote:
>
> I have posted several times over the years on the subject of wheel offset
> and it appears to be time to refresh this information.
>
> Wheel offset (ET in German, P or N in English) is a mechanical design
> function of the suspension and steering geometry. It is NOT a cosmetic
> consideration!!
>
> The purpose of offset is to ensure that the centre of the tyre contact patch
> meets the centreline of the king pin axis where it contacts the road. When
> a wheel of a non standard offset is fitted to a vehicle, it can affect the
> precision of the steering and it will always affect the loading on the wheel
> bearings.
>
> Given the safety load factor built into the design, it is possible to get
> away with it in many applications but will usually accelerate bearing wear.
>
> However, there is a sting in the tail. In the event of an accident, an
> insurance company is legally entitled to refuse to pay out if the vehicle is
> fitted with the incorrect offset wheels. It doesn't happen often but it
> hurts rather a lot when it does!
>
> Les
>
17
I'm going to jump in and ask for clarification about your T3.

1) Are you saying your 2wd T3's have 14x7" in front and 15x7" in the rear? Or are you saying one of your T3's has 14x7" in all four corners and the other T3 has 15x7" in all four corners?

2) On your Syncro a 16x7" wheel compares to stock spec like this. The ET25 tells me you are 5mm outboard compared to stock alloy worldwide and stock steel OZ Syncro wheels. Since you also went an inch wider, that means your rims are 12.7mm further outward and inward. Factor in the ET change and you find your inner rim is 17.7mm further outward and your inners only 7.7mm further. In my opinion:

a) Your front tyres will be peeking out of your arches to the point that they fling slightly more mud on your bodywork. Makes for dirtier trousers when getting in and out of the van.

b) Though relatively negligible, steering will be somewhat affected as well as tyre wear. Think of pointing your finger to a spot on the floor with the spot being where you designed to put your weight. Now draw a circle around that spot. Then lift your finger and point closer to the edge of the circle. That's what you are doing with the revised ET. You might notice that depending where you put your finger in the circle, will affect your balance. Since the stock specs are designed to align the tyres at a specific spot, you might also find more scrubbing which results in additional wear.

c) I don't see a major issue in the rear. Since the rear track is about 1/2" narrower than the front, the additional 17.7mm should clear your sliding door and still tuck under the arches. But then you already know that.;-)

3) On your 2wd T3's. Since they have the same offsets, I will discuss them together. Wheel height is less critical. Using the same formula applied to item# 2 above, your inner rim edge should be at (minus 19mm plus 12.7mm) or 5.3mm further. IMHO, that's negligible. However, you are at a whopping 31.7mm (19mm + 12.7mm) further. Besides altering your steering geometry and causing excessive tyre wear, that rubber must be struggling to stay under the arches and be nipping the lower rear of the front arches. There is an upside which is greater cornering speeds at the sacrifice of tyre wear.

In all the above cases, alignment is affected as well.

I am not an engineer nor I a cabinet maker. That just means you should take my opinion as that of a layperson. I have owned and operated more than 30 T3's with about 20% being Syncros. I have also tested various combinations of offsets sizes and widths on various T3's to the point that I ended up with 380+ spare wheels.;-( I applied the same practice on most of the other 100+ vehicles that I have owned. Come to think of it, this is the opinion of a person with a wheel fetish.


BenT
sent from my 17x8" ET35 wheels


On Jun 1, 2011, at 2:03 AM, "bergodaz" <bergodaz@ozemail.com.au> wrote:

> Les, could you please explain the effects of incorrect offsets on steering and if it can be corrected by different wheel alignment specs. I ask these questions because I have 2 t3's (2wd) with 14x7 and 15x7 et 11 wheels -thats how I bought them. My syncro has 16x7 et 25, and I feel that this is pretty close to original specs, so not too worried about that- In tradie's language if you can. Thanks Eddie.
> By the way one of the 2wd's has done a squillion kays and been truly "bashed" but has never had a wheel bearing changed.
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Les Harris" <leslieharris@...> wrote:
>>
>> I have posted several times over the years on the subject of wheel offset
>> and it appears to be time to refresh this information.
>>
>> Wheel offset (ET in German, P or N in English) is a mechanical design
>> function of the suspension and steering geometry. It is NOT a cosmetic
>> consideration!!
>>
>> The purpose of offset is to ensure that the centre of the tyre contact patch
>> meets the centreline of the king pin axis where it contacts the road. When
>> a wheel of a non standard offset is fitted to a vehicle, it can affect the
>> precision of the steering and it will always affect the loading on the wheel
>> bearings.
>>
>> Given the safety load factor built into the design, it is possible to get
>> away with it in many applications but will usually accelerate bearing wear.
>>
>> However, there is a sting in the tail. In the event of an accident, an
>> insurance company is legally entitled to refuse to pay out if the vehicle is
>> fitted with the incorrect offset wheels. It doesn't happen often but it
>> hurts rather a lot when it does!
>>
>> Les
>>
>
>
>
>
> --
18
Yes Ben one van has the 14's and one has the 15s. Yes they do hang out of the front wheel arches and fling plenty of dirt onto the van. The syncro with the et 25 16x7's sit just inside of the arches but still fling plenty of mud.One point I must make is that my tyres on the 2wd vans (with wheels that hang out there)wear perfectly evenly.The syncro wears on the inside edges but have always done so ,even with stock rims.Could have somthing to do with worn bushes.In my 20 or so years of t3 ownership I havent made any negative observations about handling or tyre wear with these wheels.Cheers & thanks for the reply.Eddie.
--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, BenT Syncro <syncro@...> wrote:
>
> I'm going to jump in and ask for clarification about your T3.
>
> 1) Are you saying your 2wd T3's have 14x7" in front and 15x7" in the rear? Or are you saying one of your T3's has 14x7" in all four corners and the other T3 has 15x7" in all four corners?
>
> 2) On your Syncro a 16x7" wheel compares to stock spec like this. The ET25 tells me you are 5mm outboard compared to stock alloy worldwide and stock steel OZ Syncro wheels. Since you also went an inch wider, that means your rims are 12.7mm further outward and inward. Factor in the ET change and you find your inner rim is 17.7mm further outward and your inners only 7.7mm further. In my opinion:
>
> a) Your front tyres will be peeking out of your arches to the point that they fling slightly more mud on your bodywork. Makes for dirtier trousers when getting in and out of the van.
>
> b) Though relatively negligible, steering will be somewhat affected as well as tyre wear. Think of pointing your finger to a spot on the floor with the spot being where you designed to put your weight. Now draw a circle around that spot. Then lift your finger and point closer to the edge of the circle. That's what you are doing with the revised ET. You might notice that depending where you put your finger in the circle, will affect your balance. Since the stock specs are designed to align the tyres at a specific spot, you might also find more scrubbing which results in additional wear.
>
> c) I don't see a major issue in the rear. Since the rear track is about 1/2" narrower than the front, the additional 17.7mm should clear your sliding door and still tuck under the arches. But then you already know that.;-)
>
> 3) On your 2wd T3's. Since they have the same offsets, I will discuss them together. Wheel height is less critical. Using the same formula applied to item# 2 above, your inner rim edge should be at (minus 19mm plus 12.7mm) or 5.3mm further. IMHO, that's negligible. However, you are at a whopping 31.7mm (19mm + 12.7mm) further. Besides altering your steering geometry and causing excessive tyre wear, that rubber must be struggling to stay under the arches and be nipping the lower rear of the front arches. There is an upside which is greater cornering speeds at the sacrifice of tyre wear.
>
> In all the above cases, alignment is affected as well.
>
> I am not an engineer nor I a cabinet maker. That just means you should take my opinion as that of a layperson. I have owned and operated more than 30 T3's with about 20% being Syncros. I have also tested various combinations of offsets sizes and widths on various T3's to the point that I ended up with 380+ spare wheels.;-( I applied the same practice on most of the other 100+ vehicles that I have owned. Come to think of it, this is the opinion of a person with a wheel fetish.
>
>
> BenT
> sent from my 17x8" ET35 wheels
>
>
> On Jun 1, 2011, at 2:03 AM, "bergodaz" <bergodaz@...> wrote:
>
> > Les, could you please explain the effects of incorrect offsets on steering and if it can be corrected by different wheel alignment specs. I ask these questions because I have 2 t3's (2wd) with 14x7 and 15x7 et 11 wheels -thats how I bought them. My syncro has 16x7 et 25, and I feel that this is pretty close to original specs, so not too worried about that- In tradie's language if you can. Thanks Eddie.
> > By the way one of the 2wd's has done a squillion kays and been truly "bashed" but has never had a wheel bearing changed.
> > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Les Harris" <leslieharris@> wrote:
> >>
> >> I have posted several times over the years on the subject of wheel offset
> >> and it appears to be time to refresh this information.
> >>
> >> Wheel offset (ET in German, P or N in English) is a mechanical design
> >> function of the suspension and steering geometry. It is NOT a cosmetic
> >> consideration!!
> >>
> >> The purpose of offset is to ensure that the centre of the tyre contact patch
> >> meets the centreline of the king pin axis where it contacts the road. When
> >> a wheel of a non standard offset is fitted to a vehicle, it can affect the
> >> precision of the steering and it will always affect the loading on the wheel
> >> bearings.
> >>
> >> Given the safety load factor built into the design, it is possible to get
> >> away with it in many applications but will usually accelerate bearing wear.
> >>
> >> However, there is a sting in the tail. In the event of an accident, an
> >> insurance company is legally entitled to refuse to pay out if the vehicle is
> >> fitted with the incorrect offset wheels. It doesn't happen often but it
> >> hurts rather a lot when it does!
> >>
> >> Les
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
>