Tyre Availability and Wheels

41
Gday Les,

erm ............ you better send me a bill for consultancy I'm thinking
... haha

Now did anyone else know that? Well I've never seen it mentioned before
in laymans terms anyway.

Ok good stuff Les, I'll do just that on both wheel types and see how I
go. Thanks a lot.

Cheers.

Ken




--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Les Harris"
<leslieharris@...> wrote:
>
> Ken,
>
> To measure the offset, take the wheel off the vehicle, lie it on a
smooth flat surface with the inside uppermost. Put a straightedge over
the top of the tyre and measure from the underside of the straightedge
to the floor. Measure from the underside of the straightedge to the
surface that mounts to the hub. Halve the overall width and subtract
that from the measurement to the mounting surface. That is the offset.
>
> This would normally be done without the tyre mounted to the rim but
you will get a sufficiently accurate measurement to give a close
approximation of the actual offset.
>
> Les
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ken
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 12:15 AM
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Wheels and ET
>
>
>
> Gday Ben and Les and ALL,
>
> Well well well, live and learn eh and thanks a lot for your
> contributions. Sounds to me then it would be no simple task to
actually
> measure an ET while a tyre is on the rim, let alone on the vehicle.
>
>
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42
I just look at what is written on the wheel. :)



> Les Harris <leslieharris@optushome.com.au> wrote:
>
> Ken,
>
> To measure the offset, take the wheel off the vehicle, lie it on a
> smooth flat surface with the inside uppermost. Put a straightedge over
> the top of the tyre and measure from the underside of the straightedge
> to the floor. Measure from the underside of the straightedge to the
> surface that mounts to the hub. Halve the overall width and subtract
> that from the measurement to the mounting surface. That is the offset.
>
> This would normally be done without the tyre mounted to the rim but you
> will get a sufficiently accurate measurement to give a close
> approximation of the actual offset.
>
> Les
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ken
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 12:15 AM
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Wheels and ET
>
>
>
> Gday Ben and Les and ALL,
>
> Well well well, live and learn eh and thanks a lot for your
> contributions. Sounds to me then it would be no simple task to
> actually
> measure an ET while a tyre is on the rim, let alone on the vehicle.
>
>
> Recent Activity
> a.. 3New Photos
> Visit Your Group
> Y! Sports for TV
> Game Day Companion
>
> Live fantasy league
>
> & game stats on TV.
>
> Yahoo! News
> Odd News
>
> You won't believe
>
> it, but it's true
>
> Parenting Groups
> on Yahoo! Groups
>
> Single Parenting
>
> to managing twins.
> .
>
43
Re: Wheels and ET

Gday Les, Phil and ALL,

plander@... wrote:

>
> I just look at what is written on the wheel. :)


Phil .... then you may well be wrong. :(



Using Les's instructions, I've achieved the following results ...

(1) VW 14"d x 6"w syncro steel rims stamped ET30 measured exactly 30mm offset ... correct!

>14" Michelin "X" tyre has 135mm footprint width. (concerns available grip width)

>Outer edge of footprint is 40mm out from the rim mounting surface. (concerns o/a tracking width).

>Mounting surface to inside face of tyre was 139mm. (concerns clearance off suspension etc.)



(2) Mercedes 15"d x 6"w steel rims stamped ET49 measured exactly 31mm offset ... wrong!

>15" Goodyear Wrangler AT/R 215 R15 has 165mm footprint width. (concerns available grip width)

>Outer edge of footprint is 50mm out from the rim mounting surface. (concerns o/a tracking width)

>Mounting surface to inside face of tyre was 146mm. (concerns clearance off suspension etc.)


CONCLUSIONS.

>Despite being stamped ET49, the 15" Mercedes rims almost match VW syncro specs .. ET30.

>Both on 6" rims, the 15" Goodyear Wrangler has 30mm more footprint width for gripping than the 14" Michelin X.

>For comparison also, a Dunlop Adventurer GR78-15LT tyre has 15mm less footprint width for gripping than the 15" Goodyear Wrangler.

>The footprint outer edge of Goodyear Wrangler tyre is 10mm further out than the Michelin X. Had the rim been ET49 as stamped, the tracking width would have been narrower, as per Ben T's explanation.

>The inner face of the Goodyear Wrangler tyre is only 7mm closer to the suspension than the Michelin X.

So overall, these Merc rims seem to be within acceptable syncro wheel limits, which brings me back to what I said earlier ... most likely the cause of rubbing on my wheel arches is more to do with overloading.

Also, when comparing tyres for a particular rim, measure the available tread footprint width of each brand, it does vary. 

Makes sense anyone or have I missed something?

Cheers.

Ken

plander@... wrote:

>
> I just look at what is written on the wheel. :)
>
>
>
> > Les Harris leslieharris@... wrote:
> >
> > Ken,
> >
> > To measure the offset, take the wheel off the vehicle, lie it on a
> > smooth flat surface with the inside uppermost. Put a straightedge
over
> > the top of the tyre and measure from the underside of the
straightedge
> > to the floor. Measure from the underside of the straightedge to the
> > surface that mounts to the hub. Halve the overall width and subtract
> > that from the measurement to the mounting surface. That is the
offset.
> >
> > This would normally be done without the tyre mounted to the rim but
you
> > will get a sufficiently accurate measurement to give a close
> > approximation of the actual offset.
> >
> > Les
> >


 

 


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
>
> I just look at what is written on the wheel. :)
>
>
>
> > Les Harris leslieharris@... wrote:
> >
> > Ken,
> >
> > To measure the offset, take the wheel off the vehicle, lie it on a
> > smooth flat surface with the inside uppermost. Put a straightedge over
> > the top of the tyre and measure from the underside of the straightedge
> > to the floor. Measure from the underside of the straightedge to the
> > surface that mounts to the hub. Halve the overall width and subtract
> > that from the measurement to the mounting surface. That is the offset.
> >
> > This would normally be done without the tyre mounted to the rim but you
> > will get a sufficiently accurate measurement to give a close
> > approximation of the actual offset.
> >
> > Les
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Ken
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 12:15 AM
> > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Wheels and ET
> >
> >
> >
> > Gday Ben and Les and ALL,
> >
> > Well well well, live and learn eh and thanks a lot for your
> > contributions. Sounds to me then it would be no simple task to
> > actually
> > measure an ET while a tyre is on the rim, let alone on the vehicle.
> >
> >
> > Recent Activity
> > a.. 3New Photos
> > Visit Your Group
> > Y! Sports for TV
> > Game Day Companion
> >
> > Live fantasy league
> >
> > & game stats on TV.
> >
> > Yahoo! News
> > Odd News
> >
> > You won't believe
> >
> > it, but it's true
> >
> > Parenting Groups
> > on Yahoo! Groups
> >
> > Single Parenting
> >
> > to managing twins.
> > .
> >
>

44
Ken, et al.,
 
I went to my friend's shop to look over some Syncro wheels. Unfortunately, only one had steel rims. As it transpires, that's a Frankenvagen. It had wheels from a Vanagon and some from a loaf bus. The ones dated 79 and earlier appeared to be ET39 from my measurements and calculations. They had round centerbores. The ones with the 5-leaf clover shaped centerbore measured out to be ET30.
 
To measure them, I took out a wooden ruler and cut it to fit so that they came in contact with the rims of the wheel rather than the tire. I should point out these 5.5" wide wheels appear as 6.75" from rim-to-rim because the wheel width is actually measured at the bead.
 
Phil, none of these US DOT (Department Of Transportation) marked wheels have the offset stamped. That is unless the small number "30" stamped at some random spot is the offset marking. Each had a date stamp and the wheel size in two places.
 
One possibility for the seemingly inaccurate offset on the MB wheels can be attributed to a wheelsmith. It might have been a custom wheel cobbled from an old MB wheel. In my experience some MB wheels have a more flared out edge on the rim than the comparable VW wheel I was using.
 
As for the reason your tires are making contact with the arches, it might be due to tyre brand. Tires have different actual dimensions even though they share the same specs. For example a BF Goodrich 215/75/14 might be slightly taller and/or wider say a a Firestone 215/75/14. Tires models have been known to have different dimensions even from the same manufacturer. I am not saying by any means that this is only possible reason you are having clearance issues. This is just but one possibility.
 
 
BenT
45
Gday Ben,

Ok so I've re-worked the measurements in accordance with what you've
said ... at the bead line instead. As I've naturally adjusted the
measurements on both sides of the rim equally, taking into account that
narrower position, it simply ended up not affecting the result ... again
ET30. Probably is logical if one thinks about it eh.

Ben I agree with you about the 30 stamping on the rim. In my case
though, I looked at my VW Kombi 1976 steel rims and they aren't stamped
ET30, just a 30 stamping as you say.

The flared out edges of the steel syncro and MB rims are pretty much
similar in my case. Also, the MB rims look undoctored, very much
original rims, though I'm no expert. I'd have to contact the previous
owner to confirm it, but seems no point as they are ET31 anyway.

So anyway, in all of this, I've learnt something useful and found I can
ignore the ET49 stampings on the MB rims thanks to having gone through
this exercise. A happy syncronaught. Thanks a lot.

Hell, we could have had a field day just on this alone ... haha

Cheers.

Ken
--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "BenT Syncro" <syncro@...>
wrote:
>
> Ken, et al.,
>
> I went to my friend's shop to look over some Syncro wheels.
Unfortunately,
> only one had steel rims. As it transpires, that's a Frankenvagen. It
had
> wheels from a Vanagon and some from a loaf bus. The ones dated 79 and
> earlier appeared to be ET39 from my measurements and calculations.
They had
> round centerbores. The ones with the 5-leaf clover shaped centerbore
> measured out to be ET30.
>
> To measure them, I took out a wooden ruler and cut it to fit so that
they
> came in contact with the rims of the wheel rather than the tire. I
should
> point out these 5.5" wide wheels appear as 6.75" from rim-to-rim
because the
> wheel width is actually measured at the bead.
>
> Phil, none of these US DOT (Department Of Transportation) marked
wheels have
> the offset stamped. That is unless the small number "30" stamped at
some
> random spot is the offset marking. Each had a date stamp and the wheel
size
> in two places.
>
> One possibility for the seemingly inaccurate offset on the MB wheels
can be
> attributed to a wheelsmith. It might have been a custom wheel cobbled
from
> an old MB wheel. In my experience some MB wheels have a more flared
out edge
> on the rim than the comparable VW wheel I was using.
>
> As for the reason your tires are making contact with the arches, it
might be
> due to tyre brand. Tires have different actual dimensions even though
they
> share the same specs. For example a BF Goodrich 215/75/14 might be
slightly
> taller and/or wider say a a Firestone 215/75/14. Tires models have
been
> known to have different dimensions even from the same manufacturer. I
am not
> saying by any means that this is only possible reason you are having
> clearance issues. This is just but one possibility.
>
>
> BenT
>
46
> > As for the reason your tires are making contact with the arches,
it
> might be
> > due to tyre brand. Tires have different actual dimensions even
though
> they
> > share the same specs. For example a BF Goodrich 215/75/14 might be
> slightly
> > taller and/or wider say a a Firestone 215/75/14. Tires models have
> been
> > known to have different dimensions even from the same
manufacturer. I
> am not
> > saying by any means that this is only possible reason you are
having
> > clearance issues. This is just but one possibility.
> >
> >
> > BenT
> >
>

Please re-read my post. I was talking about 215/75x15 BFGs on 15x7
ET24 wheels. On 15x6 ET30 there is no problem. Everyone with these
wheels has this problem.
47
Ken there are Mercedes wheels and there are Mercedes wheels. Some may be strong enough and others may not. Yours may be the same thickness as the syncro 5.5 wheels. Yours may have been modified to a different offset. Who knows the history?

When using non standard wheels just be careful. I tried to use T4 wheels and a wheel manufacturer showed me how dangerous they would be.

Phill



> Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On a related issue, agreed these Merc 15��� rims have thinner
> walls than original syncro 14��� steel rims as above. However, real life
> experience through at least 4 owners since 1992 when these Merc 15��� rims
> were
> first fitted and have travelled to who knows where around Oz (my limited
> records
> show my syncro has at least once toured north west WA in 1992) and these
> rims remain totally
> undamaged to this day, despite an all up weight when fully kitted out in
> excess
> of 2.5 tonnes. So people can theorise all they like about the
> suitability or
> not of Merc 15��� steel rims, but here is a real life
> example of my syncro and I can confirm trouble free/undamaged use of
> them for the past 19 years.Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: plander@optusnet.com.au
> Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 08:38:42 +1000
> Subject: Re: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Trakka wheel nuts
>
>
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>
> The ET is stamped on the wheel.
>
>
>
> > Nicholas Fletcher <nwjfletcher@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > I had a look at my '90 Trakka rims recently (the same CSA ones) and
>
> > found they had an ET of what I worked out as about 10mm. I think that
>
> > means bearing wear is likely to be far greater as the wheel width
> centre
>
> > is so far outside the designers intended wheel width centre. The 15"
>
> > wheels are in great condition apart from that with great almost new
>
> > tyres, but seriously thinking about getting some with the right ET
>
> > anyway. Any thoughts? Regards. Nick
>
> >
>
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48
Trakka bought whatever they could at the time. The wheels were probably made for Mercedes.

Remember that Trakka were just cabinet makers, not automotive engineers. They probably knew nothing about offsets etc.

Phill



> Nicholas Fletcher <nwjfletcher@yahoo.com> wrote:
Why would Trakka put such wrong wheels on their vehicles I
> wonder. There are pics on the forum of my van ('90 hi top Trakka) and I
> have seen other Trakka's with the same wheels. Thanks for the info.
> Maybe I will get some others then.
> nick
49
>> They
probably knew nothing about offsets etc.<<
Or soldering irons either!
--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
>
> Trakka bought whatever they could at the time. The wheels were probably made for Mercedes.
>
> Remember that Trakka were just cabinet makers, not automotive engineers. They probably knew nothing about offsets etc.
>
> Phill
>
>
>
> > Nicholas Fletcher <nwjfletcher@...> wrote:
> Why would Trakka put such wrong wheels on their vehicles I
> > wonder. There are pics on the forum of my van ('90 hi top Trakka) and I
> > have seen other Trakka's with the same wheels. Thanks for the info.
> > Maybe I will get some others then.
> > nick
>
50

Well said!  

The wiring on my Trakka is about what could be expected from a totally ignorant backyard mechanic.   No colour coding, wires twisted together, poorly covered with insulation tape, insulation piercing connectors, unsupported looms and all the rest.  

Solder?   Heat shrink?  

Never heard of it!

This was an extremely expensive conversion at the time and it had about the worst wiring that I have ever seen.

Les

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Ben
Sent: 01 June 2011 14:57
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Wheels and ET


Or soldering irons either!

51
Check out Winnebago.


> Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> Well said!
>
> The wiring on my Trakka is about what could be expected from a totally
> ignorant backyard mechanic. No colour coding, wires twisted together,
> poorly covered with insulation tape, insulation piercing connectors,
> unsupported looms and all the rest.
>
> Solder? Heat shrink?
>
> Never heard of it!
>
> This was an extremely expensive conversion at the time and it had about
> the
> worst wiring that I have ever seen.
>
> Les
>
> _____
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben
> Sent: 01 June 2011 14:57
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Wheels and ET
>
>
> Or soldering irons either!
52
I have had a similar issues with the offset and just to through in more so called expert retailer info i was advised it was double the number stamped on the wheel, go figure.

Also the disc covers were an aftermarket item made in Germany.

The Trakka has alarms solar power and 240 charger system power mirrors Ipod Jacks After market CD Radio Amp metre switch for both batteries plus things i have not yet identified.
It is a wiring QUIZ.
Switches unmarked so i think the wiring is not much short of a rubix cube or worse to the uninitiated. Im even thinking there are just looking at switches that are wired but dont appear to have a function other than to cofuse a would be thief or new owner as is my case.

Have yet to have a trip as im back over here in Saudi where its 45 in the shade.At least the Syncro is safely tucked away in my shed with its sheet over its head.
So im thinking my machine will have to wait for me to even rego which is another issue has anyone out there got a seat capicity stamped on their Trakka id plate as mine has no number stamp at all and the VW Cararavel plate and Aussie compliance plate has only 2 seater marked.
So i will update all on my assesment from QTA when i decide to get rego


>