VANAGON diagnostic tool

1
Hello Everyone,

I bought a #8691V ECU MONITOR KIT Van-Cafe when I had a problem with the LPG conversion. Van is running alright now but I have not mustered enough courage to hard-wire the kit to the ECU.
The Monitor Kit is permanently soldered to the ECU so it cannot be let/hired to others to try out.

Cheers,
Theo
2

Theo,

 

Let me look into this.  I corresponded with the manufacturer of this analyzer about five years ago and he was offering two levels of the analyzer.  One is the one that you have and the other was the same but it came with its own ECU.  This unit allowed that the vehicle ECU could be removed, the new one put in (with the analyzer attached) and run as a diagnostic device.

 

As I said, give me a bit of time and I might be able to come up with something workable.

 

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of theoweiss
Sent: 20 November 2009 12:30
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] VANAGON diagnostic tool

 

 

Hello Everyone,

I bought a #8691V ECU MONITOR KIT Van-Cafe when I had a problem with the LPG conversion. Van is running alright now but I have not mustered enough courage to hard-wire the kit to the ECU.
The Monitor Kit is permanently soldered to the ECU so it cannot be let/hired to others to try out.

Cheers,
Theo

3
Les,
Could you please outline the cause of your electrical problem as you
briefly relayed that it was related to the aircon. I have been trying to
trace a problem with my electrical system for the past 10 years and have
not been able to resolve it. It may be similar as I have the same brand
after market aircon. Unfortunately as being located in Adelaide I am
not able to pop around to the same repairer.

Thanks.


*******************************************
Nicholas Bellgrove
Lecturer - Photography
TAFE SA
Croydon Campus
Goodall Avenue
Croydon Park SA 5008
Australia
Ph +61 8 8204 0993
Fx +61 8 8345 4534
*******************************************

>>> "Les Harris" <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> 11/20/09 12:09 PM >>>
Theo,



Let me look into this. I corresponded with the manufacturer of this
analyzer about five years ago and he was offering two levels of the
analyzer. One is the one that you have and the other was the same but
it
came with its own ECU. This unit allowed that the vehicle ECU could
be
removed, the new one put in (with the analyzer attached) and run as a
diagnostic device.



As I said, give me a bit of time and I might be able to come up with
something workable.



Les



_____

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of theoweiss
Sent: 20 November 2009 12:30
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] VANAGON diagnostic tool





Hello Everyone,

I bought a #8691V ECU MONITOR KIT Van- Cafe when I had a problem with
the LPG
conversion. Van is running alright now but I have not mustered enough
courage to hard- wire the kit to the ECU.
The Monitor Kit is permanently soldered to the ECU so it cannot be
let/hired
to others to try out.

Cheers,
Theo
4

Nick,

I was about to post a report on this in any event but you have prompted me to do it now.  I cannot objectively confirm the connection between the symptoms and the fix, but here’s what happened.

Sequence of events:

Friday

  • Drove to Bunnings, about 10 k. 
  • Stopped in car park, idling very fast. 
  • Switched off engine. 
  • Came out about 15 minutes later, tried to start engine 
  • Very high cranking speed but would not fire
  • After about 40 minutes, engine fired up, very rough but then smoothed out
  • Drove home 10 k, ran properly but high idle when I reached home.

 

Saturday

  • Found that the idle valve screw had no clearance, readjusted to .003”
  • Cold start was normal, idle was normal. 
  • Left Seabrook for Carrum Downs, where a group of Syncro owners was staying at a caravan park overnight.
  • Drove down south east freeway, engine got lumpy when traffic slowed for road works
  • Stalled at gate of the caravan park and had to be pushed in!

 

Sunday

  • Cold start was normal, idle was a bit lumpy.
  • Drove to Cranbourne Racecourse (Day of the Volkswagen)
  • Stalled as I was parking, would not restart.
  • Tried restarting through the day when the engine was cold but it would not fire.
  • Tried restarting at the end of the day but the engine would not fire.
  • Got a tow to get me out of the racecourse and the engine started under tow.
  • Drove to a servo in Cranbourne to get petrol
  • Engine would start under tow but would not continue to run.

Note that I had on a previous occasion (several months ago) had the engine cut out in the middle of a big roundabout at peak hour.  Fortunately, I got a restart (a bit lumpy, but it started) and got away.

What Volkspower did was go through all of the signal values until they found a glitch in the ignition side.  They traced it to a aftermarket wire that runs from a plug in the engine compartment to the pressure switch on the airco compressor.  (I don’t know what the function of this aftermarket wire is in relation to the airco compressor.)

They found that there was a short in this wire that had thrown the ignition system.  By the time the Syncro was flat topped to them, there was any amount of cranking speed but no spark.

Simply removing this wire set everything back to normal.  I have only driven it a couple of times since, but everything appears to be running properly.

The plug (see attached pic) is on the left side of the engine against the side wall of the engine compartment and is the lower of the two.  It has to be unplugged when the ignition is being is being reset.  I haven’t had time yet to read up this process in the manual yet but will do so.

I muttered something about !@#$%^&* aftermarket wiring to Dean and he remarked drily “Yes, but it did take 20 years to fail.”  He has a point.

So there it is.  A short in a wire fitted as part of the Prestige airco installation was the culprit in this case.  I cannot yet see the connection between the most prominent initial symptom – the high idle – and the shorting wire but this is not to say that it wasn’t the cause.  It could well have been creating a spurious signal to the ECU until it reached the stage where it would not fire at all.

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Nick Bellgrove
Sent: 23 November 2009 14:05
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] VANAGON Electrical problem

 

Les,
Could you please outline the cause of your electrical problem as you
briefly relayed that it was related to the aircon. I have been trying to
trace a problem with my electrical system for the past 10 years and have
not been able to resolve it. It may be similar as I have the same brand
after market aircon. Unfortunately as being located in Adelaide I am
not able to pop around to the same repairer.

Thanks.



5

Les,

The two plugs connect the O2 sensor (3 wire) and the single wire plug (green wire) is the heater circuit for the O2 sensor. This wire supplies 12V with the ignition on. It would appear that the A/C people used this as a power source, with ignition on,  for the compressor switch. A short here would upset the  ECU in the starting mode and also the O2 sensor which explains the idle misbehaviour. This is quite an elusive situation.

Glad it is sorted out.

Yurik

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Les Harris
Sent: Monday, 23 November 2009 11:54 AM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] VANAGON Electrical problem [1 Attachment]

 

 

[Attachment(s) from Les Harris included below]

Nick,

I was about to post a report on this in any event but you have prompted me to do it now.  I cannot objectively confirm the connection between the symptoms and the fix, but here’s what happened.

Sequence of events:

Friday

  • Drove to Bunnings, about 10 k. 
  • Stopped in car park, idling very fast. 
  • Switched off engine. 
  • Came out about 15 minutes later, tried to start engine 
  • Very high cranking speed but would not fire
  • After about 40 minutes, engine fired up, very rough but then smoothed out
  • Drove home 10 k, ran properly but high idle when I reached home.

 

Saturday

  • Found that the idle valve screw had no clearance, readjusted to .003”
  • Cold start was normal, idle was normal. 
  • Left Seabrook for Carrum Downs, where a group of Syncro owners was staying at a caravan park overnight.
  • Drove down south east freeway, engine got lumpy when traffic slowed for road works
  • Stalled at gate of the caravan park and had to be pushed in!

 

Sunday

  • Cold start was normal, idle was a bit lumpy.
  • Drove to Cranbourne Racecourse (Day of the Volkswagen)
  • Stalled as I was parking, would not restart.
  • Tried restarting through the day when the engine was cold but it would not fire.
  • Tried restarting at the end of the day but the engine would not fire.
  • Got a tow to get me out of the racecourse and the engine started under tow.
  • Drove to a servo in Cranbourne to get petrol
  • Engine would start under tow but would not continue to run.

Note that I had on a previous occasion (several months ago) had the engine cut out in the middle of a big roundabout at peak hour.  Fortunately, I got a restart (a bit lumpy, but it started) and got away.

What Volkspower did was go through all of the signal values until they found a glitch in the ignition side.  They traced it to a aftermarket wire that runs from a plug in the engine compartment to the pressure switch on the airco compressor.  (I don’t know what the function of this aftermarket wire is in relation to the airco compressor.)

They found that there was a short in this wire that had thrown the ignition system.  By the time the Syncro was flat topped to them, there was any amount of cranking speed but no spark.

Simply removing this wire set everything back to normal.  I have only driven it a couple of times since, but everything appears to be running properly.

The plug (see attached pic) is on the left side of the engine against the side wall of the engine compartment and is the lower of the two.  It has to be unplugged when the ignition is being is being reset.  I haven’t had time yet to read up this process in the manual yet but will do so.

I muttered something about !@#$%^&* aftermarket wiring to Dean and he remarked drily “Yes, but it did take 20 years to fail.”  He has a point.

So there it is.  A short in a wire fitted as part of the Prestige airco installation was the culprit in this case.  I cannot yet see the connection between the most prominent initial symptom – the high idle – and the shorting wire but this is not to say that it wasn’t the cause.  It could well have been creating a spurious signal to the ECU until it reached the stage where it would not fire at all.

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nick Bellgrove
Sent: 23 November 2009 14:05
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] VANAGON Electrical problem

 

Les,
Could you please outline the cause of your electrical problem as you
briefly relayed that it was related to the aircon. I have been trying to
trace a problem with my electrical system for the past 10 years and have
not been able to resolve it. It may be similar as I have the same brand
after market aircon. Unfortunately as being located in Adelaide I am
not able to pop around to the same repairer.

Thanks.




6
Les.

If it is the green wire you are talking about, this is the "O2" signal.
This is not an after market aircon add on. There may have been
interference to this signal as described but unfortunately you
description / photo does not indicate which "aftermarket" wire was the
culprit. I will keep on looking in that area though.

Nick


*******************************************
Nicholas Bellgrove
Lecturer - Photography
TAFE SA
Croydon Campus
Goodall Avenue
Croydon Park SA 5008
Australia
Ph +61 8 8204 0993
Fx +61 8 8345 4534
*******************************************

>>> "Les Harris" <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> 11/23/09 2:23 PM >>>
Nick,

I was about to post a report on this in any event but you have prompted
me
to do it now. I cannot objectively confirm the connection between the
symptoms and the fix, but here's what happened.

Sequence of events:

Friday

* Drove to Bunnings, about 10 k.
* Stopped in car park, idling very fast.
* Switched off engine.
* Came out about 15 minutes later, tried to start engine
* Very high cranking speed but would not fire
* After about 40 minutes, engine fired up, very rough but then
smoothed out
* Drove home 10 k, ran properly but high idle when I reached home.




Saturday

* Found that the idle valve screw had no clearance, readjusted to
.003"
* Cold start was normal, idle was normal.
* Left Seabrook for Carrum Downs, where a group of Syncro owners
was
staying at a caravan park overnight.
* Drove down south east freeway, engine got lumpy when traffic
slowed
for road works
* Stalled at gate of the caravan park and had to be pushed in!



Sunday

* Cold start was normal, idle was a bit lumpy.
* Drove to Cranbourne Racecourse (Day of the Volkswagen)
* Stalled as I was parking, would not restart.
* Tried restarting through the day when the engine was cold but
it
would not fire.
* Tried restarting at the end of the day but the engine would not
fire.
* Got a tow to get me out of the racecourse and the engine
started
under tow.
* Drove to a servo in Cranbourne to get petrol
* Engine would start under tow but would not continue to run.

Note that I had on a previous occasion (several months ago) had the
engine
cut out in the middle of a big roundabout at peak hour. Fortunately, I
got
a restart (a bit lumpy, but it started) and got away.

What Volkspower did was go through all of the signal values until they
found
a glitch in the ignition side. They traced it to a aftermarket wire
that
runs from a plug in the engine compartment to the pressure switch on
the
airco compressor. (I don't know what the function of this aftermarket
wire
is in relation to the airco compressor.)

They found that there was a short in this wire that had thrown the
ignition
system. By the time the Syncro was flat topped to them, there was any
amount of cranking speed but no spark.

Simply removing this wire set everything back to normal. I have only
driven
it a couple of times since, but everything appears to be running
properly.

The plug (see attached pic) is on the left side of the engine against
the
side wall of the engine compartment and is the lower of the two. It
has to
be unplugged when the ignition is being is being reset. I haven't had
time
yet to read up this process in the manual yet but will do so.

I muttered something about !@#$%^&* aftermarket wiring to Dean and he
remarked drily "Yes, but it did take 20 years to fail." He has a
point.

So there it is. A short in a wire fitted as part of the Prestige
airco
installation was the culprit in this case. I cannot yet see the
connection
between the most prominent initial symptom - the high idle - and the
shorting wire but this is not to say that it wasn't the cause. It
could
well have been creating a spurious signal to the ECU until it reached
the
stage where it would not fire at all.

Les



_____

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nick
Bellgrove
Sent: 23 November 2009 14:05
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] VANAGON Electrical problem



Les,
Could you please outline the cause of your electrical problem as you
briefly relayed that it was related to the aircon. I have been trying
to
trace a problem with my electrical system for the past 10 years and
have
not been able to resolve it. It may be similar as I have the same
brand
after market aircon. Unfortunately as being located in Adelaide I am
not able to pop around to the same repairer.

Thanks.
7
Could I please have some confirmation that this description is correct.
It was my understanding that the green wire was the "O2" signal and the
other multi wire connection was the sensor heater power.

Nick.


*******************************************
Nicholas Bellgrove
Lecturer - Photography
TAFE SA
Croydon Campus
Goodall Avenue
Croydon Park SA 5008
Australia
Ph +61 8 8204 0993
Fx +61 8 8345 4534
*******************************************

>>> "Yurik Orlowsky" <yuriko@iinet.net.au> 11/23/09 3:25 PM >>>
Les,

The two plugs connect the O2 sensor (3 wire) and the single wire plug
(green
wire) is the heater circuit for the O2 sensor. This wire supplies 12V
with
the ignition on. It would appear that the A/C people used this as a
power
source, with ignition on, for the compressor switch. A short here
would
upset the ECU in the starting mode and also the O2 sensor which
explains
the idle misbehaviour. This is quite an elusive situation.

Glad it is sorted out.

Yurik



From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Les Harris
Sent: Monday, 23 November 2009 11:54 AM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] VANAGON Electrical problem [1
Attachment]





[Attachment(s) from Les Harris included below]

Nick,

I was about to post a report on this in any event but you have prompted
me
to do it now. I cannot objectively confirm the connection between the
symptoms and the fix, but here's what happened.

Sequence of events:

Friday

* Drove to Bunnings, about 10 k.
* Stopped in car park, idling very fast.
* Switched off engine.
* Came out about 15 minutes later, tried to start engine
* Very high cranking speed but would not fire
* After about 40 minutes, engine fired up, very rough but then
smoothed out
* Drove home 10 k, ran properly but high idle when I reached home.




Saturday

* Found that the idle valve screw had no clearance, readjusted to
.003"
* Cold start was normal, idle was normal.
* Left Seabrook for Carrum Downs, where a group of Syncro owners
was
staying at a caravan park overnight.
* Drove down south east freeway, engine got lumpy when traffic
slowed
for road works
* Stalled at gate of the caravan park and had to be pushed in!



Sunday

* Cold start was normal, idle was a bit lumpy.
* Drove to Cranbourne Racecourse (Day of the Volkswagen)
* Stalled as I was parking, would not restart.
* Tried restarting through the day when the engine was cold but
it
would not fire.
* Tried restarting at the end of the day but the engine would not
fire.
* Got a tow to get me out of the racecourse and the engine
started
under tow.
* Drove to a servo in Cranbourne to get petrol
* Engine would start under tow but would not continue to run.

Note that I had on a previous occasion (several months ago) had the
engine
cut out in the middle of a big roundabout at peak hour. Fortunately, I
got
a restart (a bit lumpy, but it started) and got away.

What Volkspower did was go through all of the signal values until they
found
a glitch in the ignition side. They traced it to a aftermarket wire
that
runs from a plug in the engine compartment to the pressure switch on
the
airco compressor. (I don't know what the function of this aftermarket
wire
is in relation to the airco compressor.)

They found that there was a short in this wire that had thrown the
ignition
system. By the time the Syncro was flat topped to them, there was any
amount of cranking speed but no spark.

Simply removing this wire set everything back to normal. I have only
driven
it a couple of times since, but everything appears to be running
properly.

The plug (see attached pic) is on the left side of the engine against
the
side wall of the engine compartment and is the lower of the two. It
has to
be unplugged when the ignition is being is being reset. I haven't had
time
yet to read up this process in the manual yet but will do so.

I muttered something about !@#$%^&* aftermarket wiring to Dean and he
remarked drily "Yes, but it did take 20 years to fail." He has a
point.

So there it is. A short in a wire fitted as part of the Prestige
airco
installation was the culprit in this case. I cannot yet see the
connection
between the most prominent initial symptom - the high idle - and the
shorting wire but this is not to say that it wasn't the cause. It
could
well have been creating a spurious signal to the ECU until it reached
the
stage where it would not fire at all.

Les



_____

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nick
Bellgrove
Sent: 23 November 2009 14:05
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] VANAGON Electrical problem



Les,
Could you please outline the cause of your electrical problem as you
briefly relayed that it was related to the aircon. I have been trying
to
trace a problem with my electrical system for the past 10 years and
have
not been able to resolve it. It may be similar as I have the same
brand
after market aircon. Unfortunately as being located in Adelaide I am
not able to pop around to the same repairer.

Thanks.
8

Nick,

Sorry, I omitted to state that this pic was taken after the aftermarket wire was removed. 

I didn’t see the offending wire; the workshop is a very long way from where I live and on the other side of Melbourne .  The wire had been removed by the time I went to collect he Syncro and I took the pic so that I could post it as a guide to what the plug looked like and where it is situated in the engine compartment.

Yurik’s email, which arrived immediately before yours, identifies the function of the original wiring.

Sorry for creating confusion.

Les

 

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Nick Bellgrove
Sent: 23 November 2009 16:25
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] VANAGON Electrical problem

 

 

Les.

If it is the green wire you are talking about, this is the "O2" signal.
This is not an after market aircon add on. There may have been
interference to this signal as described but unfortunately you
description / photo does not indicate which "aftermarket" wire was the
culprit. I will keep on looking in that area though.

Nick


9

Nick, Les,

My correction the green wire is the O2 signal wire, the other two are for the sensor heater. (BR-earth, R/Y-12V supply).

Perhaps Les that A/C was connected to the R/Y wire.

Yurik

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nick Bellgrove
Sent: Monday, 23 November 2009 1:30 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] VANAGON Electrical problem

 

 

Could I please have some confirmation that this description is correct.
It was my understanding that the green wire was the "O2" signal and the
other multi wire connection was the sensor heater power.

Nick.


*******************************************
Nicholas Bellgrove
Lecturer - Photography
TAFE SA
Croydon Campus
Goodall Avenue
Croydon Park SA 5008
Australia
Ph +61 8 8204 0993
Fx +61 8 8345 4534
*******************************************

>>> "Yurik Orlowsky" <
href="mailto:yuriko%40iinet.net.au">yuriko@iinet.net.au> 11/23/09 3:25 PM >>>
Les,

The two plugs connect the O2 sensor (3 wire) and the single wire plug
(green
wire) is the heater circuit for the O2 sensor. This wire supplies 12V
with
the ignition on. It would appear that the A/C people used this as a
power
source, with ignition on, for the compressor switch. A short here
would
upset the ECU in the starting mode and also the O2 sensor which
explains
the idle misbehaviour. This is quite an elusive situation.

Glad it is sorted out.

Yurik

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Les Harris
Sent: Monday, 23 November 2009 11:54 AM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] VANAGON Electrical problem [1
Attachment]

[Attachment(s) from Les Harris included below]

Nick,

I was about to post a report on this in any event but you have prompted
me
to do it now. I cannot objectively confirm the connection between the
symptoms and the fix, but here's what happened.

Sequence of events:

Friday

* Drove to Bunnings, about 10 k.
* Stopped in car park, idling very fast.
* Switched off engine.
* Came out about 15 minutes later, tried to start engine
* Very high cranking speed but would not fire
* After about 40 minutes, engine fired up, very rough but then
smoothed out
* Drove home 10 k, ran properly but high idle when I reached home.

Saturday

* Found that the idle valve screw had no clearance, readjusted to
.003"
* Cold start was normal, idle was normal.
* Left Seabrook for Carrum Downs, where a group of Syncro owners
was
staying at a caravan park overnight.
* Drove down south east freeway, engine got lumpy when traffic
slowed
for road works
* Stalled at gate of the caravan park and had to be pushed in!

Sunday

* Cold start was normal, idle was a bit lumpy.
* Drove to Cranbourne Racecourse (Day of the Volkswagen)
* Stalled as I was parking, would not restart.
* Tried restarting through the day when the engine was cold but
it
would not fire.
* Tried restarting at the end of the day but the engine would not
fire.
* Got a tow to get me out of the racecourse and the engine
started
under tow.
* Drove to a servo in Cranbourne to get petrol
* Engine would start under tow but would not continue to run.

Note that I had on a previous occasion (several months ago) had the
engine
cut out in the middle of a big roundabout at peak hour. Fortunately, I
got
a restart (a bit lumpy, but it started) and got away.

What Volkspower did was go through all of the signal values until they
found
a glitch in the ignition side. They traced it to a aftermarket wire
that
runs from a plug in the engine compartment to the pressure switch on
the
airco compressor. (I don't know what the function of this aftermarket
wire
is in relation to the airco compressor.)

They found that there was a short in this wire that had thrown the
ignition
system. By the time the Syncro was flat topped to them, there was any
amount of cranking speed but no spark.

Simply removing this wire set everything back to normal. I have only
driven
it a couple of times since, but everything appears to be running
properly.

The plug (see attached pic) is on the left side of the engine against
the
side wall of the engine compartment and is the lower of the two. It
has to
be unplugged when the ignition is being is being reset. I haven't had
time
yet to read up this process in the manual yet but will do so.

I muttered something about !@#$%^&* aftermarket wiring to Dean and he
remarked drily "Yes, but it did take 20 years to fail." He has a
point.

So there it is. A short in a wire fitted as part of the Prestige
airco
installation was the culprit in this case. I cannot yet see the
connection
between the most prominent initial symptom - the high idle - and the
shorting wire but this is not to say that it wasn't the cause. It
could
well have been creating a spurious signal to the ECU until it reached
the
stage where it would not fire at all.

Les

_____

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nick
Bellgrove
Sent: 23 November 2009 14:05
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] VANAGON Electrical problem

Les,
Could you please outline the cause of your electrical problem as you
briefly relayed that it was related to the aircon. I have been trying
to
trace a problem with my electrical system for the past 10 years and
have
not been able to resolve it. It may be similar as I have the same
brand
after market aircon. Unfortunately as being located in Adelaide I am
not able to pop around to the same repairer.

Thanks.

10

Yurik,

Because I didn’t see it before the aftermarket wire was removed, I don’t know but I will seek clarification from the workshop.  They did say, however, that it was on the plug that has to be disconnected when the ignition is being set up.  This would then be consistent with disconnecting the 02 heater for the setup.

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Yurik Orlowsky
Sent: 23 November 2009 17:09
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] VANAGON Electrical problem

 

 

Nick, Les,

My correction the green wire is the O2 signal wire, the other two are for the sensor heater. (BR-earth, R/Y-12V supply).

Perhaps Les that A/C was connected to the R/Y wire.

Yurik

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto: Syncro_ T3_Australia@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Nick Bellgrove
Sent: Monday, 23 November 2009 1:30 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] VANAGON Electrical problem

 

 

Could I please have some confirmation that this description is correct.
It was my understanding that the green wire was the "O2" signal and the
other multi wire connection was the sensor heater power.

Nick.


************ ********* ********* ********* ****
Nicholas Bellgrove
Lecturer - Photography
TAFE SA
Croydon Campus
Goodall Avenue
Croydon Park SA 5008
Australia
Ph +61 8 8204 0993
Fx +61 8 8345 4534
************ ********* ********* ********* ****

>>> "Yurik Orlowsky" <
href="mailto:yuriko%40iinet.net.au">yuriko@iinet. net.au> 11/23/09 3:25 PM >>>
Les,

The two plugs connect the O2 sensor (3 wire) and the single wire plug
(green
wire) is the heater circuit for the O2 sensor. This wire supplies 12V
with
the ignition on. It would appear that the A/C people used this as a
power
source, with ignition on, for the compressor switch. A short here
would
upset the ECU in the starting mode and also the O2 sensor which
explains
the idle misbehaviour. This is quite an elusive situation.

Glad it is sorted out.

Yurik

From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
[mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Les Harris
Sent: Monday, 23 November 2009 11:54 AM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] VANAGON Electrical problem [1
Attachment]

[Attachment( s) from Les Harris included below]

Nick,

I was about to post a report on this in any event but you have prompted
me
to do it now. I cannot objectively confirm the connection between the
symptoms and the fix, but here's what happened.

Sequence of events:

Friday

* Drove to Bunnings, about 10 k.
* Stopped in car park, idling very fast.
* Switched off engine.
* Came out about 15 minutes later, tried to start engine
* Very high cranking speed but would not fire
* After about 40 minutes, engine fired up, very rough but then
smoothed out
* Drove home 10 k, ran properly but high idle when I reached home.

Saturday

* Found that the idle valve screw had no clearance, readjusted to
.003"
* Cold start was normal, idle was normal.
* Left Seabrook for Carrum Downs, where a group of Syncro owners
was
staying at a caravan park overnight.
* Drove down south east freeway, engine got lumpy when traffic
slowed
for road works
* Stalled at gate of the caravan park and had to be pushed in!

Sunday

* Cold start was normal, idle was a bit lumpy.
* Drove to Cranbourne Racecourse (Day of the Volkswagen)
* Stalled as I was parking, would not restart.
* Tried restarting through the day when the engine was cold but
it
would not fire.
* Tried restarting at the end of the day but the engine would not
fire.
* Got a tow to get me out of the racecourse and the engine
started
under tow.
* Drove to a servo in Cranbourne to get petrol
* Engine would start under tow but would not continue to run.

Note that I had on a previous occasion (several months ago) had the
engine
cut out in the middle of a big roundabout at peak hour. Fortunately, I
got
a restart (a bit lumpy, but it started) and got away.

What Volkspower did was go through all of the signal values until they
found
a glitch in the ignition side. They traced it to a aftermarket wire
that
runs from a plug in the engine compartment to the pressure switch on
the
airco compressor. (I don't know what the function of this aftermarket
wire
is in relation to the airco compressor.)

They found that there was a short in this wire that had thrown the
ignition
system. By the time the Syncro was flat topped to them, there was any
amount of cranking speed but no spark.

Simply removing this wire set everything back to normal. I have only
driven
it a couple of times since, but everything appears to be running
properly.

The plug (see attached pic) is on the left side of the engine against
the
side wall of the engine compartment and is the lower of the two. It
has to
be unplugged when the ignition is being is being reset. I haven't had
time
yet to read up this process in the manual yet but will do so.

I muttered something about !@#$%^&* aftermarket wiring to Dean and he
remarked drily "Yes, but it did take 20 years to fail." He has a
point.

So there it is. A short in a wire fitted as part of the Prestige
airco
installation was the culprit in this case. I cannot yet see the
connection
between the most prominent initial symptom - the high idle - and the
shorting wire but this is not to say that it wasn't the cause. It
could
well have been creating a spurious signal to the ECU until it reached
the
stage where it would not fire at all.

Les

_____

From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
[mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Nick
Bellgrove
Sent: 23 November 2009 14:05
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] VANAGON Electrical problem

Les,
Could you please outline the cause of your electrical problem as you
briefly relayed that it was related to the aircon. I have been trying
to
trace a problem with my electrical system for the past 10 years and
have
not been able to resolve it. It may be similar as I have the same
brand
after market aircon. Unfortunately as being located in Adelaide I am
not able to pop around to the same repairer.

Thanks.

11

Yurik, Nick,

I see that I made an error in the description of the plug.  I said that it was the lower one on the basis of what was pointed out to me at the workshop but I could quite easily misinterpreted which plug they were pointing to. (I really must talk to someone about having my logic bypass operation reversed!!)

The lower plug in the pic is the single wire, the upper is the two wire.  As I understand it, it is the 02 heater hat has to be disconnected before the timing can be set up.

I will have a look at the massive practical joke that appears in the VAG manual, jocularly described as a “wiring diagram”.  It is unlikely that it will reveal anything but, just for a laugh, I will have a look.

Back in the olden days, wiring diagrams were a work of art, 100% accurate and 1000% helpful, even Volkswagen’s.  In this wondrous past age, where each component was loving drawn to be instantly recognizable, where each wire was shown in colour, every mortal part of a circuit could be clearly seen and clearly traced. 

Now, they are spider webs of faint lines connecting symbols, some of which represent the function of the component, most of which don’t.  There is some accuracy in them but frequently not.  For example, the diagram for the T3 fails to show one of the most important wires in the entire system – the alternator signal wire!  And it just gets worse from there on.  Whoever devised the new standard for wiring diagrams must have had the same operation as I did but there is no way that theirs is going to be reversed.

Les

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Les Harris
Sent: 23 November 2009 17:18
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] VANAGON Electrical problem

 

 

Yurik,

Because I didn’t see it before the aftermarket wire was removed, I don’t know but I will seek clarification from the workshop.  They did say, however, that it was on the plug that has to be disconnected when the ignition is being set up.  This would then be consistent with disconnecting the 02 heater for the setup.

Les

 

 

_,___

12
. For example, the diagram for the
> T3
> fails to show one of the most important wires in the entire system - the
> alternator signal wire!

Les,
You must have different diagrams to me. I've never had a problem. Maybe it's because I'm used to monochrome diagrams at work!

Phill
13

Phill,

Please have a look at Page 97.122 and tell me where the alternator signal wire is. 

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of plander@optusnet.com.au
Sent: 24 November 2009 06:41
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] VANAGON Electrical problem

 

 

. For example, the diagram for the

> T3
> fails to show one of the most important wires in the entire system - the
> alternator signal wire!

Les,
You must have different diagrams to me. I've never had a problem. Maybe it's because I'm used to monochrome diagrams at work!

Phill

14
Les,
I think that you are talking about DF or D+ which is the feed that supplies 12v to the alternator stator field to excite the alternator and also to provide the alternator fault light?

The cable is Blue (0.5mm) goes to T1d connector inside the enclosure in the engine compartment then to the fuse box plug E pin 15.

Now turn to page 97.126 at line 54 and it comes out through pug B pin 1 another blue cable. From there it goes to terminal 11 on the dash pod printed circuit to the alternator warning light.

Another blue conductor goes from the fuse box to line 47 (page 97.125) and a 3 pin connector near the alternator to the TDC sensor via a yellow conductor.

This is for models for VIN 25zJG****** and 25zKG******.

Phill



> Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> Phill,
>
> Please have a look at Page 97.122 and tell me where the alternator
> signal
> wire is.
>
> Les
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> plander@optusnet.com.au
> Sent: 24 November 2009 06:41
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] VANAGON Electrical problem
>
>
>
>
>
> . For example, the diagram for the
> > T3
> > fails to show one of the most important wires in the entire system -
> the
> > alternator signal wire!
>
> Les,
> You must have different diagrams to me. I've never had a problem. Maybe
> it's
> because I'm used to monochrome diagrams at work!
>
> Phill