I like the look of the LED battery monitor. I had one for the 2 batteries before which was a needle pointer but the vibration of driving over crap Central Coast roads and lots of speed bumps killed it.
Skot
On 30/05/2011 2:28 PM, Ken Garratt wrote:All,
This months Sidewinder topic describes a simple DIY battery capacity test, could suit those who have no specialised battery testing equipment.
Any helpful comments appreciated. TIA.
Cheers.
Ken
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: spbconsulting@bigpond.com
Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 14:40:27 +1000
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] DIY Battery Capacity Test
I like the look of the LED battery monitor. I had one for the 2 batteries before which was a needle pointer but the vibration of driving over crap Central Coast roads and lots of speed bumps killed it.
Skot
On 30/05/2011 2:28 PM, Ken Garratt wrote:All,
This months Sidewinder topic describes a simple DIY battery capacity test, could suit those who have no specialised battery testing equipment.
Any helpful comments appreciated. TIA.
Cheers.
Ken
----- Original Message -----From: Ken GarrattSent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 9:28 PMSubject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] DIY Battery Capacity TestAll,
This months Sidewinder topic describes a simple DIY battery capacity test, could suit those who have no specialised battery testing equipment.Cheers.Ken
We had a good Rd near my place for about 12 months then the other day they dug up a trench to lay some conduits and did the usual crap job of filling it back in.
No wonder we have a very high rate of 4wd ownership on the coast - you need them to negotiate the tracks..... err "roads".
Skot
On 30/05/2011 2:48 PM, Ken Garratt wrote:Nah ..... you mean Pt. Plomer Road surely!
Our roads are GCC strategically shite to keep tourists at bay.
Ken
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: spbconsulting@bigpond.com
Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 14:40:27 +1000
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] DIY Battery Capacity Test
Looks simple and effective.
I like the look of the LED battery monitor. I had one for the 2 batteries before which was a needle pointer but the vibration of driving over crap Central Coast roads and lots of speed bumps killed it.
Skot
On 30/05/2011 2:28 PM, Ken Garratt wrote:
All,
This months Sidewinder topic describes a simple DIY battery capacity test, could suit those who have no specialised battery testing equipment.
Any helpful comments appreciated. TIA.
Cheers.
Ken
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: ScottDaniel@turbovans.com
Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 21:55:28 -0700
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] DIY Battery Capacity Test
----- Original Message -----From: Ken GarrattSent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 9:28 PMSubject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] DIY Battery Capacity TestAll,
This months Sidewinder topic describes a simple DIY battery capacity test, could suit those who have no specialised battery testing equipment.Cheers.Ken
Your test would be more thorough. You don't really need to worry about the surface charge with this test as that is mainly for open circuit voltage test.
I would check that the globe is actually drawing 4 amps to make things more accurate.
Phill
> Scott Daniel - Turbovans <ScottDaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
> I would add two or 3 things.
> one, I don't know what a 'down light' ..perhaps what we call a Drop
> Light . In any case, I just use an old headlamp that still works to load down a
> battery for testing.
>
> I would also suggest to not test immediately after charging.......let it
> rest for a while first, a few hours perhaps. Here if we ask to have a
> just-charged battery tested they'll say ..'have to wait until the
> surface charge dissipates some."
>
> and I would always do a simple hydrometer test on any batter ..
> to see if all cells are at about the same level of charge.
> one particularly lower than the others indicates a bad cell, and thus
> a weak or failing battery.
>
> nice test though , to calculate the true amp hours of a battery. Rather
> clever.
>
> the battery load tester I have, and you should only need to buy one ever
> ..cost $ 55 US ...
> not horribly expensive.
>
> Scott
> www.turbovans.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ken Garratt
> To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum
> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 9:28 PM
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] DIY Battery Capacity Test
>
>
>
> All,
>
>
>
> This months Sidewinder topic describes a simple DIY battery capacity
> test, could suit those who have no specialised battery testing
> equipment.
>
>
> Goto: http://www.sidewinder.com.au/page226aaa.html
>
>
> Any helpful comments appreciated. TIA.
>
>
> Cheers.
>
>
> Ken
>
>
Ken,
I have a problem with this battery test and suspect it is flawed.
The Ah rating for Automotive batteries is based on a 10 hour discharge. The battery should deliver 10th the Ah rating for 10 hours without the cell voltage dropping below 1.8 volts (10.8 volts for a 12 volt battery). The test is also meant to be done at a specific temperature. If the battery cannot deliver this, it is no longer a battery of that Ah rating and is substandard. The load should be kept at a constant 10th of the Ah rating. This doesn’t happen with a globe because the current will drop as the voltage drops. Batteries deliver more energy the slower they discharge as you are producing less heat (heat is proportional to the square of the current). Try cranking your engine over continually and see if you get the Ah rating before the voltage drops too low to crank any longer – it just won’t happen, you’d be lucky to get 10% of the Ah rating
This test mentioned on the link is only to 11.8 volts and he is loading the battery to 40% of the acceptable load. God knows where he plucked 11.8 volts from.
Also to confuse the issue, most batteries these days are rates at CCA (cold cranking amps) which is different to Ampere hours.
If I was not sure about my battery and I was heading out beyond the Mulga I’d be getting my batteries tested by someone who knew what he was doing.
Mind you with the number heading out to the Simpson dessert these days he won’t really be in much danger if his batteries fail, just a pain in the proverbial for anyone he seeks help from.
If you really want to know how to test a battery with the right equipment, ask me some time and I’ll gladly tell you.
After 30 years of teaching this subject I have learned a few things.
Cheers,
Thomas,
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken Garratt
Sent: Monday, 30 May 2011 3:03 PM
To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] DIY Battery Capacity Test
Scott,
Good point re first a rest period before testing. However, would that still apply if the batteries are simply permanently on trickle charge using a 3 stage smart charger, as compared to carrying out a typical recharge event that you may be referring to?
I'd hazard a guess and say many of us now run fully sealed maintenance free starter and camping batteries, so the hydrometer test is no longer possible.
Cheers.
ken
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: ScottDaniel@turbovans.com
Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 21:55:28 -0700
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] DIY Battery Capacity Test
I would add two or 3 things.
one, I don't know what a 'down light' ..perhaps what we call a Drop Light .
In any case, I just use an old headlamp that still works to load down a battery for testing.
I would also suggest to not test immediately after charging.......let it rest for a while first, a few hours perhaps. Here if we ask to have a just-charged battery tested they'll say ..'have to wait until the surface charge dissipates some."
and I would always do a simple hydrometer test on any batter ..
to see if all cells are at about the same level of charge.
one particularly lower than the others indicates a bad cell, and thus a weak or failing battery.
nice test though , to calculate the true amp hours of a battery. Rather clever.
the battery load tester I have, and you should only need to buy one ever ..cost $ 55 US ...
not horribly expensive.
Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Garratt
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 9:28 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] DIY Battery Capacity Test
All,
This months Sidewinder topic describes a simple DIY battery capacity test, could suit those who have no specialised battery testing equipment.
Any helpful comments appreciated. TIA.
Cheers.
Ken
Thomas, the attached images came through as miniscule files.
Les
_
>>If I was not sure about my battery and I was heading out beyond the Mulga I'd be getting my batteries tested by someone who knew what he was doing.<<I would agree with Tom.
--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Hanson" <thomashanson@...> wrote:
>
> Ken,
>
> I have a problem with this battery test and suspect it is flawed.
>
> The Ah rating for Automotive batteries is based on a 10 hour discharge. The
> battery should deliver 10th the Ah rating for 10 hours without the cell
> voltage dropping below 1.8 volts (10.8 volts for a 12 volt battery). The
> test is also meant to be done at a specific temperature. If the battery
> cannot deliver this, it is no longer a battery of that Ah rating and is
> substandard. The load should be kept at a constant 10th of the Ah rating.
> This doesn't happen with a globe because the current will drop as the
> voltage drops. Batteries deliver more energy the slower they discharge as
> you are producing less heat (heat is proportional to the square of the
> current). Try cranking your engine over continually and see if you get the
> Ah rating before the voltage drops too low to crank any longer - it just
> won't happen, you'd be lucky to get 10% of the Ah rating
>
> This test mentioned on the link is only to 11.8 volts and he is loading the
> battery to 40% of the acceptable load. God knows where he plucked 11.8 volts
> from.
>
> Also to confuse the issue, most batteries these days are rates at CCA (cold
> cranking amps) which is different to Ampere hours.
>
> If I was not sure about my battery and I was heading out beyond the Mulga
> I'd be getting my batteries tested by someone who knew what he was doing.
>
> Mind you with the number heading out to the Simpson dessert these days he
> won't really be in much danger if his batteries fail, just a pain in the
> proverbial for anyone he seeks help from.
>
> If you really want to know how to test a battery with the right equipment,
> ask me some time and I'll gladly tell you.
>
> After 30 years of teaching this subject I have learned a few things.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Thomas,
>
>
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken Garratt
> Sent: Monday, 30 May 2011 3:03 PM
> To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum
> Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] DIY Battery Capacity Test
>
>
>
>
>
> Scott,
>
>
>
> Good point re first a rest period before testing. However, would that still
> apply if the batteries are simply permanently on trickle charge using a 3
> stage smart charger, as compared to carrying out a typical recharge event
> that you may be referring to?
>
>
>
> I'd hazard a guess and say many of us now run fully sealed maintenance free
> starter and camping batteries, so the hydrometer test is no longer possible.
>
>
>
> Cheers.
>
>
>
> ken
>
> _____
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: ScottDaniel@...
> Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 21:55:28 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] DIY Battery Capacity Test
>
>
>
>
>
> I would add two or 3 things.
>
>
>
> one, I don't know what a 'down light' ..perhaps what we call a Drop Light .
>
> In any case, I just use an old headlamp that still works to load down a
> battery for testing.
>
>
>
> I would also suggest to not test immediately after charging.......let it
> rest for a while first, a few hours perhaps. Here if we ask to have a
> just-charged battery tested they'll say ..'have to wait until the surface
> charge dissipates some."
>
>
>
> and I would always do a simple hydrometer test on any batter ..
>
> to see if all cells are at about the same level of charge.
>
> one particularly lower than the others indicates a bad cell, and thus a
> weak or failing battery.
>
>
>
> nice test though , to calculate the true amp hours of a battery. Rather
> clever.
>
>
>
> the battery load tester I have, and you should only need to buy one ever
> ..cost $ 55 US ...
>
> not horribly expensive.
>
>
>
> Scott
>
> www.turbovans.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Ken Garratt <mailto:unclekenz@...>
>
> To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum <mailto:syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
>
>
> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 9:28 PM
>
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] DIY Battery Capacity Test
>
>
>
>
>
> All,
>
>
>
> This months Sidewinder topic describes a simple DIY battery capacity test,
> could suit those who have no specialised battery testing equipment.
>
>
>
> Goto: http://www.sidewinder.com.au/page226aaa.html
>
>
>
> Any helpful comments appreciated. TIA.
>
>
>
> Cheers.
>
>
>
> Ken
>
Thomas,
We would be well advised to take you up on that. Please set it out and I will put it into the Files section.
Thanks
Les
From:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Thomas Hanson
Sent: 30 May 2011 16:44
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia]
DIY Battery Capacity Test
If you really want to know how to test a battery with the right equipment, ask me some time and I’ll gladly tell you.
After 30 years of teaching this subject I have learned a few things.
Cheers,
Thomas,
> Ben <bencroft96@yahoo.com> wrote:I'd be getting my batteries tested by someone who knew what he was doing.
>
Where would you find that?
If you want a rough test – crank your engine for 15 seconds on a cold morning – the voltage should not drop below 9.6 volts. On a warm day or with the engine bay warm, turn the headlights on also when you crank the engine.
Any auto electrician worth his salt should be able to test a battery properly.
Thomas
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben
Sent: Monday, 30 May 2011 5:29 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: DIY Battery Capacity Test
Ken,very clever if you want a roughy or didnt have any other options.
>>If I was not sure about my battery and I was heading out beyond the Mulga I'd be getting my batteries tested by someone who knew what he was doing.<<I would agree with Tom.
--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Hanson" <thomashanson@...> wrote:
>
> Ken,
>
> I have a problem with this battery test and suspect it is flawed.
>
> The Ah rating for Automotive batteries is based on a 10 hour discharge. The
> battery should deliver 10th the Ah rating for 10 hours without the cell
> voltage dropping below 1.8 volts (10.8 volts for a 12 volt battery). The
> test is also meant to be done at a specific temperature. If the battery
> cannot deliver this, it is no longer a battery of that Ah rating and is
> substandard. The load should be kept at a constant 10th of the Ah rating.
> This doesn't happen with a globe because the current will drop as the
> voltage drops. Batteries deliver more energy the slower they discharge as
> you are producing less heat (heat is proportional to the square of the
> current). Try cranking your engine over continually and see if you get the
> Ah rating before the voltage drops too low to crank any longer - it just
> won't happen, you'd be lucky to get 10% of the Ah rating
>
> This test mentioned on the link is only to 11.8 volts and he is loading the
> battery to 40% of the acceptable load. God knows where he plucked 11.8 volts
> from.
>
> Also to confuse the issue, most batteries these days are rates at CCA (cold
> cranking amps) which is different to Ampere hours.
>
> If I was not sure about my battery and I was heading out beyond the Mulga
> I'd be getting my batteries tested by someone who knew what he was doing.
>
> Mind you with the number heading out to the Simpson dessert these days he
> won't really be in much danger if his batteries fail, just a pain in the
> proverbial for anyone he seeks help from.
>
> If you really want to know how to test a battery with the right equipment,
> ask me some time and I'll gladly tell you.
>
> After 30 years of teaching this subject I have learned a few things.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Thomas,
>
>
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken Garratt
> Sent: Monday, 30 May 2011 3:03 PM
> To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum
> Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] DIY Battery Capacity Test
>
>
>
>
>
> Scott,
>
>
>
> Good point re first a rest period before testing. However, would that still
> apply if the batteries are simply permanently on trickle charge using a 3
> stage smart charger, as compared to carrying out a typical recharge event
> that you may be referring to?
>
>
>
> I'd hazard a guess and say many of us now run fully sealed maintenance free
> starter and camping batteries, so the hydrometer test is no longer possible.
>
>
>
> Cheers.
>
>
>
> ken
>
> _____
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: ScottDaniel@...
> Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 21:55:28 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] DIY Battery Capacity Test
>
>
>
>
>
> I would add two or 3 things.
>
>
>
> one, I don't know what a 'down light' ..perhaps what we call a Drop Light .
>
> In any case, I just use an old headlamp that still works to load down a
> battery for testing.
>
>
>
> I would also suggest to not test immediately after charging.......let it
> rest for a while first, a few hours perhaps. Here if we ask to have a
> just-charged battery tested they'll say ..'have to wait until the surface
> charge dissipates some."
>
>
>
> and I would always do a simple hydrometer test on any batter ..
>
> to see if all cells are at about the same level of charge.
>
> one particularly lower than the others indicates a bad cell, and thus a
> weak or failing battery.
>
>
>
> nice test though , to calculate the true amp hours of a battery. Rather
> clever.
>
>
>
> the battery load tester I have, and you should only need to buy one ever
> ...cost $ 55 US ...
>
> not horribly expensive.
>
>
>
> Scott
>
> www.turbovans.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Ken Garratt <mailto:unclekenz@...>
>
> To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum <mailto:syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
>
>
> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 9:28 PM
>
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] DIY Battery Capacity Test
>
>
>
>
>
> All,
>
>
>
> This months Sidewinder topic describes a simple DIY battery capacity test,
> could suit those who have no specialised battery testing equipment.
>
>
>
> Goto: http://www.sidewinder.com.au/page226aaa.html
>
>
>
> Any helpful comments appreciated. TIA.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Ken
>
Yes Les
I know, there always appears to be miniscule files when I reply to the forum. In fact there are no files at all. Can’t figure that one out I’m afraid.
Thomas
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Les Harris
Sent: Monday, 30 May 2011 5:19 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] DIY Battery Capacity Test
Thomas, the attached images came through as miniscule files.
Les
_
>Very rare nowadays.
> Any auto electrician worth his salt should be able to test a battery
> properly.
>
--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Any auto electrician worth his salt should be able to test a battery
> > properly.
> >
>
> Very rare nowadays.
>
Phill
> Ben <bencroft96@yahoo.com> wrote:Anyone with a load tester and multimeter can test your battery.
>
--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Any auto electrician worth his salt should be able to test a battery
> > properly.
> >
>
> Very rare nowadays.
>
My comments were that I didn’t trust the Sidewinder article. Where did he get the decision factor of 65 to 70% from?
There is an Australian Standard for testing battery capacity. This is done under laboratory conditions at (I think) minus 20 degrees Celsius, the discharge rate, time and voltage readings have to be monitored precisely. Who’s going to do that in his workshop or out in the mulga? I’ve camped out in minus 7 degrees in the Syncro but testing batteries was the last thing on my mind at that temperature.
Sure there is a CCA standard for Cold Cranking Amps which is basically – will the battery start a cold engine on a cold morning? Not too distant front the previously used Ampere hour standard. There is also the reserve capacity which is - How long will the battery take to regain its terminal (no load) voltage after being loaded?
In the automotive workshop the accepted test has been a rule of thumb test which has worked well.
The battery has to be at least 2/3 charged ie 1220 relative density or 12.4 volts terminal voltage.
Place the carbon pile across the terminals, tighten the handle until the current draw is 3 times the Ah rating (or 1/2 the CCA rating).
After 15 seconds the terminal voltage should not be less than 9.6 volts.
The newer digital battery testers don’t load the battery down to replicate a cold start, they draw a small current, measure the recovery time and calculate the capacity of the battery. It is obvious which type of battery tester it is when you look at the leads. If it has leads like starter cable it is designed to draw heavy current.
I’m not particularly in favour of the newer testers. I’ve had experience of a battery supplier testing three batteries over a period of a two months and giving me three false positives. Perhaps it was user error, I don’t know, but when I tested the batteries myself using the carbon pile I found the batteries to be faulty and the problem was solved after replacing each battery.
Point to note here. Batteries tend to degrade over time. If a battery is at or just over the pass level of 9.6 volts it is close to the end of its useful life. If you’re heading into the mulga or it’s coming onto winter it’s time to think about replacing that battery. For some reason we tend to baulk at having to pay for a new battery but what’s it worth? About two tankfuls of petrol. You are going to have to do it soon. Even if you get only 24 months out of a battery and paid $200 for it, trying to squeeze that extra month out of the battery is only going to save you $8. Then when it does fail and you or the wife picking up the kids in the rain, are left waiting ages for the NRMA to come and are inconvenienced and have to pay the non negotiable over priced cost of a quick fix battery. What’s your time worth?
I know most people don’ t have a battery tester of either type so you may just have to rely on the qualified tradesman. If you are unsure about your local auto electrician’s battery testing procedures, ask him how he tests them. He should be able to explain the procedure. If your still not happy ask if he could recommend a good auto electrician. That should liven up your day.
I’ve attached an MSWord document I wrote some years ago for my students. It may be a bit technical for those who don’t understand electrickery Les may like to add it to the technical files.
Cheers,
Thomas
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of plander@optusnet.com.au
Sent: Tuesday, 31 May 2011 7:13 AM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: DIY Battery Capacity Test
That won't test a battery for capacity and the load tester is designed for starting batteries only.
Phill
> Ben <bencroft96@yahoo.com> wrote:Anyone with a load tester and multimeter can test your battery.
>
--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@.. wrote:
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Any auto electrician worth his salt should be able to test a battery
> > properly.
> >
>
> Very rare nowadays.
>
A view from someone who got stuck with 12 tonne of immovable 4WD truck because I was trying to wring one last trip out of 3 x 300CCA batteries.
Steve
--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Hanson" <thomashanson@...> wrote:
>
... stuff deleted
>
> Point to note here. Batteries tend to degrade over time. If a battery is at
> or just over the pass level of 9.6 volts it is close to the end of its
> useful life. If you're heading into the mulga or it's coming onto winter
> it's time to think about replacing that battery. For some reason we tend to
> baulk at having to pay for a new battery but what's it worth? About two
> tankfuls of petrol. You are going to have to do it soon. Even if you get
> only 24 months out of a battery and paid $200 for it, trying to squeeze that
> extra month out of the battery is only going to save you $8. Then when it
> does fail and you or the wife picking up the kids in the rain, are left
> waiting ages for the NRMA to come and are inconvenienced and have to pay the
> non negotiable over priced cost of a quick fix battery. What's your time
> worth?
>
... stuff deleted
>
> I've attached an MSWord document I wrote some years ago for my students. It
> may be a bit technical for those who don't understand electrickery. Les may
> like to add it to the technical files.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Thomas
>
Thomas,
Many thanks. I have created a new ‘Batteries’ file and added your information.
Les