Driving Lights

1
Just like to get the groups' opinion on driving lights before I buy anything that might be wrong. Don't know much about wiring so do I rely on wires & relays supplied with the various kits, or make up something different. I've heard that there's a good chance of frying headlight switches with incorrect set ups. Any info including personal set ups would be great . Thanks in advance Eddie Bergodaz.
2

Eddie,

Phill has some excellent information on this.   Having just changed hard drives on my computer, I can’t find it readily but Phill can.   The key factor is to use the switch wiring only to actuate the relay/s.

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of eddie
Sent: 19 August 2011 16:15
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Driving Lights

 

Just like to get the groups' opinion on driving lights before I buy anything that might be wrong. Don't know much about wiring so do I rely on wires & relays supplied with the various kits, or make up something different. I've heard that there's a good chance of frying headlight switches with incorrect set ups. Any info including personal set ups would be great . Thanks in advance Eddie Bergodaz.

3
Here is the way that I have done it;

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~pjlander/Headlights.htm

Here is a guy that does a kit;

http://www.traxide.com.au/HL_info.html



> eddie <bergodaz@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> Just like to get the groups' opinion on driving lights before I buy
> anything that might be wrong. Don't know much about wiring so do I rely
> on wires & relays supplied with the various kits, or make up something
> different. I've heard that there's a good chance of frying headlight
> switches with incorrect set ups. Any info including personal set ups
> would be great . Thanks in advance Eddie Bergodaz.
4
Hi Eddie, I don't know how concerned you are about it being roadworthy but in Victoria you must have a seperate "mains" switch and have the high beam stork as the trigger. So basicly splice a new wire into the highbeam positive, run this to a switch on the dash and then to the relay + coil (85) .Earth 86 at the relay.  Run a supply from the battery or "p" terminal to 30 then 87 goes to the driving light. Hope this is what you need. Greg.

From: "plander@optusnet.com.au" <plander@optusnet.com.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 19 August 2011 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Driving Lights

 
Here is the way that I have done it;

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~pjlander/Headlights.htm

Here is a guy that does a kit;

http://www.traxide.com.au/HL_info.html

> eddie <bergodaz@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> Just like to get the groups' opinion on driving lights before I buy
> anything that might be wrong. Don't know much about wiring so do I rely
> on wires & relays supplied with the various kits, or make up something
> different. I've heard that there's a good chance of frying headlight
> switches with incorrect set ups. Any info including personal set ups
> would be great . Thanks in advance Eddie Bergodaz.


5

I have a solenoid/starter problem and need some advice.

A problem has just appeared whereby cold starts are OK but it baulks at hot starts.   I can hear the solenoid pulling in but it is not making a circuit for the starter.

I thought that it might have been a battery level problem but found a standing voltage of 12.3, which would normally be more than adequate.   To be on the safe side, I gave it 24 hours on a smart charger to ensure 100% but I had the same problem today.

After standing for about an hour, it will start immediately and at a very good cranking speed.

The ignition switch is relatively new and should not be a component of the problem but I am considering installing a direct-wired push button switch in any event.

Any advice will be much appreciated.

Les

 

,_._,___

6
Les,

Before you go drilling holes in your van, try rigging up a temporary push button straight at the solenoid between B+ (30) and the solenoid contact (50).

Phill



> Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> I have a solenoid/starter problem and need some advice.
>
> A problem has just appeared whereby cold starts are OK but it baulks at
> hot
> starts. I can hear the solenoid pulling in but it is not making a
> circuit
> for the starter.
>
> I thought that it might have been a battery level problem but found a
> standing voltage of 12.3, which would normally be more than adequate.
> To
> be on the safe side, I gave it 24 hours on a smart charger to ensure
> 100%
> but I had the same problem today.
>
> After standing for about an hour, it will start immediately and at a
> very
> good cranking speed.
>
> The ignition switch is relatively new and should not be a component of
> the
> problem but I am considering installing a direct-wired push button
> switch in
> any event.
>
> Any advice will be much appreciated.
>
> Les
>
>
>
> ,_._,___
7

Phill,

That’s sound advice.   Any other thoughts?

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of plander@optusnet.com.au
Sent: 23 August 2011 17:25
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Solenoid/Starter Problem

 

Les,

Before you go drilling holes in your van, try rigging up a temporary push button straight at the solenoid between B+ (30) and the solenoid contact (50).

Phill


8
Les,

My old 73 bay window automatic bus used to do the same thing - it was fine when cold but wouldn't start when hot (like at the servo after filling up with fuel - leaded petrol back then). I found that a light tap to the starter whilst someone was cranking it was enough to break the resistance that seemed to form while driving.

A real problem when you were by yourself though. Then I finally had the starter reconditioned and the old leaky bus started every time even after I broke the crank shaft.

Skot


On 23/08/2011 6:11 PM, Les Harris wrote:
 

Phill,

That’s sound advice.   Any other thoughts?

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of plander@optusnet.com.au
Sent: 23 August 2011 17:25
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Solenoid/Starter Problem

 

Les,

Before you go drilling holes in your van, try rigging up a temporary push button straight at the solenoid between B+ (30) and the solenoid contact (50).

Phill



9
Les, what you describe certainly sounds like solenoid issues. What tends to happen over time is the contacts in the solenoid that supply power to the starter motor plate across and one of the contacts get very thin. If it happens hot I would do as Phill described to rule everything else out and warm the engine then crank it several times if you only get a click at times it is most likely the solenoid. If you want to be on the safe side best off giving the entire starter to an auto elec for rebuilding, also the bush in the bell housing sould be replaced. On refitting I would also fit a relay in the engine bay to take the load off the circuit to the cabin and reduce the voltage drop to the solenoid. Greg E

From: Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 23 August 2011 6:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Solenoid/Starter Problem

 
Phill,
That’s sound advice.   Any other thoughts?
Les
 
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of plander@optusnet.com.au
Sent: 23 August 2011 17:25
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Solenoid/Starter Problem
 
Les,

Before you go drilling holes in your van, try rigging up a temporary push button straight at the solenoid between B+ (30) and the solenoid contact (50).

Phill




10

Greg,

The relay in the engine compartment is also a good idea.   Back in the good old days when Beetles were 6V, a boxful of relays was about the only way to go, including the solenoid.   It was not uncommon to read 4.5V at the business end of headlight bulbs and probably not a lot more at the solenoid.

I will have to haul the starter out, which is a bugger of a job.   At the very least, I can clean the contacts in the solenoid and bench test it before I out it back in.   This starter has been in for a few years but the number of starts is still quite low.   Looking underneath this afternoon, there is oil around the RH side of the gearbox and solenoids are not at all fond of oil, so that might be a component.

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of greg esposito
Sent: 23 August 2011 18:37
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Solenoid/Starter Problem

 

 

Les, what you describe certainly sounds like solenoid issues. What tends to happen over time is the contacts in the solenoid that supply power to the starter motor plate across and one of the contacts get very thin. If it happens hot I would do as Phill described to rule everything else out and warm the engine then crank it several times if you only get a click at times it is most likely the solenoid. If you want to be on the safe side best off giving the entire starter to an auto elec for rebuilding, also the bush in the bell housing sould be replaced. On refitting I would also fit a relay in the engine bay to take the load off the circuit to the cabin and reduce the voltage drop to the solenoid. Greg E

 

 

11
Shouldn't need a relay as that just masks another problem. They work fine as is.



> Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> Greg,
>
> The relay in the engine compartment is also a good idea. Back in the
> good
> old days when Beetles were 6V, a boxful of relays was about the only way
> to
> go, including the solenoid. It was not uncommon to read 4.5V at the
> business end of headlight bulbs and probably not a lot more at the
> solenoid.
>
> I will have to haul the starter out, which is a bugger of a job. At
> the
> very least, I can clean the contacts in the solenoid and bench test it
> before I out it back in. This starter has been in for a few years but
> the
> number of starts is still quite low. Looking underneath this
> afternoon,
> there is oil around the RH side of the gearbox and solenoids are not at
> all
> fond of oil, so that might be a component.
>
> Les
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greg esposito
> Sent: 23 August 2011 18:37
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Solenoid/Starter Problem
>
>
>
>
>
> Les, what you describe certainly sounds like solenoid issues. What tends
> to
> happen over time is the contacts in the solenoid that supply power to
> the
> starter motor plate across and one of the contacts get very thin. If it
> happens hot I would do as Phill described to rule everything else out
> and
> warm the engine then crank it several times if you only get a click at
> times
> it is most likely the solenoid. If you want to be on the safe side best
> off
> giving the entire starter to an auto elec for rebuilding, also the bush
> in
> the bell housing sould be replaced. On refitting I would also fit a
> relay in
> the engine bay to take the load off the circuit to the cabin and reduce
> the
> voltage drop to the solenoid. Greg E
>
>
>
>
12
I like to put a heavy duty generic push button starter on my 'keeper' vans.
There's a nice spot above the light switch for one.
I wire it direct, with pretty fat wires, battery to switch, and switch to trigger terminal on the solenoid.
I leave the stock circuit intact, so I have two separate ways to energize the starter.
 
Sometimes, with age, the wires from the ignition switch to the solenoid will not give a solid enough shot of juice to the solenoid.  You could measure how much voltage is reaching the trigger terminal on the solenoid. Wouldn't hurt anyway to do that.
To access the starter on a Syncro, I lower the rear of the engine down ..
just those 4 bolts to undo on the ends of what we call the 'moustache bar' , at the rear of the engine there. Just lower engine about 5 inches ( watching not to pull too hard on wires, cables, or hoses ).
Then you can get at the wires on the starter nicely.
 
how old is your starter ?
how good are the ground connections at battery and front of transmission ?
It may be of use to know that the solenoid has two circuits in it ..the 'pull' one...
and the 'hold' one.  Perhaps one of those is weak when hot.
 
I only replace starter and solenoid as a unit together myself.
I only use genuine Bosch rebuilt starters with excellent results.
 
Consider the starter bushing in the bell housing.  They wear gradually.
It helps to undo the right inner CV joint to change the starter bushing - you can see and reach up in there better with that CV undone.
Good luck !
Scott
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Les Harris
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 12:07 AM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Solenoid/Starter Problem

 

I have a solenoid/starter problem and need some advice.

A problem has just appeared whereby cold starts are OK but it baulks at hot starts.   I can hear the solenoid pulling in but it is not making a circuit for the starter.

I thought that it might have been a battery level problem but found a standing voltage of 12.3, which would normally be more than adequate.   To be on the safe side, I gave it 24 hours on a smart charger to ensure 100% but I had the same problem today.

After standing for about an hour, it will start immediately and at a very good cranking speed.

The ignition switch is relatively new and should not be a component of the problem but I am considering installing a direct-wired push button switch in any event.

Any advice will be much appreciated.

Les

,_._,___

13

Scott,

Thanks for the tip about dropping the rear of the engine.   I have seen some very awkward starter positions and the Syncro location is right up there with the worst of them, with the further complication of having the solenoid on top and in the least accessible place!

Phill says that the original system should be sufficient but these are now old vehicles – mine is 22 years old – and things deteriorate.   Being stuck somewhere for an hour waiting to get a re-start is no joke.   I like your idea of having parallel circuits and will do this.   The ground connections should be OK but I will check them in any event.

I hadn’t heard of the two stages in the solenoid before and I now wonder about mine because I am obviously getting the ‘pull’ phase – I can hear it and it is a sharp sound – but probably not getting the ‘hold’ phase.

Thanks for the information.

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Scott Daniel - Turbovans
Sent: 24 August 2011 06:13
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Solenoid/Starter Problem

 

 

I like to put a heavy duty generic push button starter on my 'keeper' vans.

There's a nice spot above the light switch for one.

I wire it direct, with pretty fat wires, battery to switch, and switch to trigger terminal on the solenoid.

I leave the stock circuit intact, so I have two separate ways to energize the starter.

 

Sometimes, with age, the wires from the ignition switch to the solenoid will not give a solid enough shot of juice to the solenoid.  You could measure how much voltage is reaching the trigger terminal on the solenoid. Wouldn't hurt anyway to do that.

To access the starter on a Syncro, I lower the rear of the engine down ..

just those 4 bolts to undo on the ends of what we call the 'moustache bar' , at the rear of the engine there. Just lower engine about 5 inches ( watching not to pull too hard on wires, cables, or hoses ).

Then you can get at the wires on the starter nicely.

 

how old is your starter ?

how good are the ground connections at battery and front of transmission ?

It may be of use to know that the solenoid has two circuits in it ..the 'pull' one...

and the 'hold' one.  Perhaps one of those is weak when hot.

 

I only replace starter and solenoid as a unit together myself.

I only use genuine Bosch rebuilt starters with excellent results.

 

Consider the starter bushing in the bell housing.  They wear gradually.

It helps to undo the right inner CV joint to change the starter bushing - you can see and reach up in there better with that CV undone.

Good luck !

Scott

 

14
> Phill says that the original system should be sufficient but these are
> now old vehicles - mine is 22 years old - and things deteriorate.

The copper doesn't, sometimes the connections do.

>The ground connections should be OK but I will check them in any event.

Common problem. Dissimilar metals etc. Mechanics taking them off.


> I hadn't heard of the two stages in the solenoid before and I now wonder
> about mine because I am obviously getting the 'pull' phase - I can hear
> it and it is a sharp sound - but probably not getting the 'hold' phase.

Hold phase is when the starter spins.

It is illegal in NSW to have starter buttons. I wonder what your insurance company would think.
15

Phill,

That’s interesting.  Have you any idea why?

Les


It is illegal in NSW to have starter buttons. I wonder what your insurance company would think.

16

Scott / Les

 

Please also replace the bush and Scott please enlighten us how to remove the bush, yes there is a trick to it. On my DOKA it is the one thing that I haven’t done to stop the problem.

 

I have replaced the ign switch,  ran a battery cable from the battery to the gearbox for grounding, fitted a new armature, fitted a new Bosch solenoid , fitted a relays kit to the solenoid, cleaned All connections and still didn’t succeed to rectify the problem.

 

Once I have regained my mental/physical strength I shall lower the ‘moustache’ and attack the bush, hoping for the best (might be waiting for Ken to pay me a visit)

 

Hartmut

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Les Harris
Sent: Wednesday, 24 August 2011 10:28 AM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Solenoid/Starter Problem

 

 

Scott,

Thanks for the tip about dropping the rear of the engine.   I have seen some very awkward starter positions and the Syncro location is right up there with the worst of them, with the further complication of having the solenoid on top and in the least accessible place!

Phill says that the original system should be sufficient but these are now old vehicles – mine is 22 years old – and things deteriorate.   Being stuck somewhere for an hour waiting to get a re-start is no joke.   I like your idea of having parallel circuits and will do this.   The ground connections should be OK but I will check them in any event.

I hadn’t heard of the two stages in the solenoid before and I now wonder about mine because I am obviously getting the ‘pull’ phase – I can hear it and it is a sharp sound – but probably not getting the ‘hold’ phase.

Thanks for the information.

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Daniel - Turbovans
Sent: 24 August 2011 06:13
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Solenoid/Starter Problem

 

 

I like to put a heavy duty generic push button starter on my 'keeper' vans.

There's a nice spot above the light switch for one.

I wire it direct, with pretty fat wires, battery to switch, and switch to trigger terminal on the solenoid.

I leave the stock circuit intact, so I have two separate ways to energize the starter.

 

Sometimes, with age, the wires from the ignition switch to the solenoid will not give a solid enough shot of juice to the solenoid.  You could measure how much voltage is reaching the trigger terminal on the solenoid. Wouldn't hurt anyway to do that.

To access the starter on a Syncro, I lower the rear of the engine down ..

just those 4 bolts to undo on the ends of what we call the 'moustache bar' , at the rear of the engine there. Just lower engine about 5 inches ( watching not to pull too hard on wires, cables, or hoses ).

Then you can get at the wires on the starter nicely.

 

how old is your starter ?

how good are the ground connections at battery and front of transmission ?

It may be of use to know that the solenoid has two circuits in it ..the 'pull' one...

and the 'hold' one.  Perhaps one of those is weak when hot.

 

I only replace starter and solenoid as a unit together myself.

I only use genuine Bosch rebuilt starters with excellent results.

 

Consider the starter bushing in the bell housing.  They wear gradually.

It helps to undo the right inner CV joint to change the starter bushing - you can see and reach up in there better with that CV undone.

Good luck !

Scott

 

17
Security. The same as you must not leave an unlocked car unattended. No more than 3 metres.



> Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> Phill,
>
> That's interesting. Have you any idea why?
>
> Les
>
>
> It is illegal in NSW to have starter buttons. I wonder what your
> insurance
> company would think.
18

Good point.

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of plander@optusnet.com.au
Sent: 24 August 2011 11:00
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Solenoid/Starter Problem

 

 

Security. The same as you must not leave an unlocked car unattended. No more than 3 metres.

> Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:
>
> Phill,
>
> That's interesting. Have you any idea why?
>
> Les
>
>
> It is illegal in NSW to have starter buttons. I wonder what your
> insurance
> company would think.

19
nice to see your note Les.
 
for sure ..don't try to do anything starter or solenoid wise on a syncro without lowering the back of the engine a little. It's built that way intentionally - accommodate that. . The skid bars are a pain of course,  to remove .
 
and you probably know about a 'starter booster relay' .........
with that system ..
the key circuit only has to energize a tiny relay ..
then that relay right near the starter, routes higher amperage batt voltage from the solenoid battery terminal to the trigger terminal on the starter.  That works ..
though I prefer not to have that 'patch' on there usually.  But that can solve your issue sometimes too.
  and it's not hard to install one either.
 
Scott
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Les Harris
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 5:28 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Solenoid/Starter Problem

 

Scott,

Thanks for the tip about dropping the rear of the engine.   I have seen some very awkward starter positions and the Syncro location is right up there with the worst of them, with the further complication of having the solenoid on top and in the least accessible place!

Phill says that the original system should be sufficient but these are now old vehicles – mine is 22 years old – and things deteriorate.   Being stuck somewhere for an hour waiting to get a re-start is no joke.   I like your idea of having parallel circuits and will do this.   The ground connections should be OK but I will check them in any event.

I hadn’t heard of the two stages in the solenoid before and I now wonder about mine because I am obviously getting the ‘pull’ phase – I can hear it and it is a sharp sound – but probably not getting the ‘hold’ phase.

Thanks for the information.

Les

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Scott Daniel - Turbovans
Sent: 24 August 2011 06:13
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Solenoid/Starter Problem

 

I like to put a heavy duty generic push button starter on my 'keeper' vans.

There's a nice spot above the light switch for one.

I wire it direct, with pretty fat wires, battery to switch, and switch to trigger terminal on the solenoid.

I leave the stock circuit intact, so I have two separate ways to energize the starter.

Sometimes, with age, the wires from the ignition switch to the solenoid will not give a solid enough shot of juice to the solenoid.  You could measure how much voltage is reaching the trigger terminal on the solenoid. Wouldn't hurt anyway to do that.

To access the starter on a Syncro, I lower the rear of the engine down ..

just those 4 bolts to undo on the ends of what we call the 'moustache bar' , at the rear of the engine there. Just lower engine about 5 inches ( watching not to pull too hard on wires, cables, or hoses ).

Then you can get at the wires on the starter nicely.

how old is your starter ?

how good are the ground connections at battery and front of transmission ?

It may be of use to know that the solenoid has two circuits in it ..the 'pull' one...

and the 'hold' one.  Perhaps one of those is weak when hot.

I only replace starter and solenoid as a unit together myself.

I only use genuine Bosch rebuilt starters with excellent results.

Consider the starter bushing in the bell housing.  They wear gradually.

It helps to undo the right inner CV joint to change the starter bushing - you can see and reach up in there better with that CV undone.

Good luck !

Scott

20
You guys have to have hidden push-button starter buttons !!?
 
that's gov sticking their nose in way, way too much.
 
'no sir officier sir, that's not a starter button ..that operates the beer pump ...the hose is right here,  just for a nip now and then to keep me whistle wet."
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Solenoid/Starter Problem

 



> Phill says that the original system should be sufficient but these are
> now old vehicles - mine is 22 years old - and things deteriorate.

The copper doesn't, sometimes the connections do.

>The ground connections should be OK but I will check them in any event.

Common problem. Dissimilar metals etc. Mechanics taking them off.

> I hadn't heard of the two stages in the solenoid before and I now wonder
> about mine because I am obviously getting the 'pull' phase - I can hear
> it and it is a sharp sound - but probably not getting the 'hold' phase.

Hold phase is when the starter spins.

It is illegal in NSW to have starter buttons. I wonder what your insurance company would think.