Electrical Shorting Problem - Help Needed. PLEASE!

1
Hi folks,
 
firstly, to those list members who receive this message more than once, my apologies for the cross posting. I have a frustrating problem with our bus and am in need of help............
 
The Problem and Attempts to Track the Fault:
 
About 11 or 12 months ago, our bus started to have a flat battery every 10 to 12 or so days. The battery gets progressively flatter over this time ie. it does not suddenly lose charge. After months of charging the battery or changing batteries over every week or so I have now started to try to attempt to resolve the issue.
 
I believe I have concluded that an electrical short is the problem as when I disconnect the negative terminal on the battery (small spark) and connect a test light between the cable and the terminal, the test light bulb glows.
 
In order to track the fault, I have removed all the fuses I can find hoping that the test light will go out when a particular fuse is removed thus identifying the circuit with the problem. Fuses I have removed are: all those at the fuse box behind the glove box, the 2 air con. fuses at the rear of the bus and 2 in the engine bay. I think(?) one of these is fuse S51 and the other is a fuse from the Subaru harness. I have found one fuse related to the LPG system and removed that too.
The test light does not go at at any time one of these fuses is removed.
 
Unfortunately, I live many hundreds of kilometres from an auto electrician
 
The Bus:
 
Is a British spec (ie right hand drive) 1990 Syncro Caravelle GL. To compound the difficulty in tracking down the fault, it has a 2003 EJ25 Subaru power plant running on petrol and  injected LPG (ie lots of non factory wiring). It was running without fault for over 3 years with this engine before the fault raised it's head. It has factory fitted air conditioning, central locking, power steering and power mirrors.
 
My Conclusions So Far:
 
None really! I imagine the fault is more likely to be related to the wiring associated with the engine conversion though even that is a guess and no more.
 
My Questions:
 
Can someone please direct me to the location of the fuse on the central locking system (S52, page 97-227 or the Bently manual) so I can test this circuit?
Also, on that schematic, what does the number 23 mean that is next to the S52 symbol?
 
Is fuse S51 the one that that was located in the wiring junction box in the LHS of engine compartment with the original engine set up?
 
Are there any other fuses located in odd spots around the van that I can remove to check a circuit?
 
If I can not find the fault by removing fuses, how on earth do I go about tracking the fault?
 
And lastly, if I can not resolve the issue, how would an auto electrician go about doing so?
 
Many thanks,
 
Andy,
Ceduna
South Australia
 
2

Hi Andy,

Your trouble shooting technique is sound and auto electricians would employ a similar approach.  There may be a circuit that is not fused which could have a fault causing discharge. See if there are any other wires attached to the +ve battery terminal and remove them one by one and observe your test light. There are 2 other circuits that have no fuses; 1st  the alternator cables – test by removing these (there could be a short in the regulator diodes) and the 2nd the starter motor cables including the solenoid. It’s a systematic process of elimination as you are doing.

Regards

Yurik

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Johns and Ruth Phillips
Sent: Tuesday, 9 February 2010 8:29 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com; subaruvanagon@yahoogroups.com; Syncro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Electrical Shorting Problem - Help Needed. PLEASE!

 

 

Hi folks,

 

firstly, to those list members who receive this message more than once, my apologies for the cross posting. I have a frustrating problem with our bus and am in need of help............

 

The Problem and Attempts to Track the Fault:

 

About 11 or 12 months ago, our bus started to have a flat battery every 10 to 12 or so days. The battery gets progressively flatter over this time ie. it does not suddenly lose charge. After months of charging the battery or changing batteries over every week or so I have now started to try to attempt to resolve the issue.

 

I believe I have concluded that an electrical short is the problem as when I disconnect the negative terminal on the battery (small spark) and connect a test light between the cable and the terminal, the test light bulb glows.

 

In order to track the fault, I have removed all the fuses I can find hoping that the test light will go out when a particular fuse is removed thus identifying the circuit with the problem. Fuses I have removed are: all those at the fuse box behind the glove box, the 2 air con. fuses at the rear of the bus and 2 in the engine bay. I think(?) one of these is fuse S51 and the other is a fuse from the Subaru harness. I have found one fuse related to the LPG system and removed that too.

The test light does not go at at any time one of these fuses is removed.

 

Unfortunately, I live many hundreds of kilometres from an auto electrician

 

The Bus:

 

Is a British spec (ie right hand drive) 1990 Syncro Caravelle GL. To compound the difficulty in tracking down the fault, it has a 2003 EJ25 Subaru power plant running on petrol and  injected LPG (ie lots of non factory wiring). It was running without fault for over 3 years with this engine before the fault raised it's head. It has factory fitted air conditioning, central locking, power steering and power mirrors.

 

My Conclusions So Far:

 

None really! I imagine the fault is more likely to be related to the wiring associated with the engine conversion though even that is a guess and no more.

 

My Questions:

 

Can someone please direct me to the location of the fuse on the central locking system (S52, page 97-227 or the Bently manual) so I can test this circuit?

Also, on that schematic, what does the number 23 mean that is next to the S52 symbol?

 

Is fuse S51 the one that that was located in the wiring junction box in the LHS of engine compartment with the original engine set up?

 

Are there any other fuses located in odd spots around the van that I can remove to check a circuit?

 

If I can not find the fault by removing fuses, how on earth do I go about tracking the fault?

 

And lastly, if I can not resolve the issue, how would an auto electrician go about doing so?

 

Many thanks,

 

Andy,

Ceduna

South Australia

 

3
Has this just happened all of a sudden? What has changed?

Your approach to finding the fault is correct.

Have a look around your stereo/amp etc. Try disconnecting it at the plug.



> Andrew Johns and Ruth Phillips <rafear@internode.on.net> wrote:
>
Hi folks,

firstly, to those list members who receive this message more than once, my apologies for the
cross posting. I have a frustrating problem with our bus and am in need of help............

The Problem and Attempts to Track the Fault:

About 11 or 12 months ago, our bus started to have a flat battery every 10 to 12 or so days.
The battery gets progressively flatter over this time ie. it does not suddenly lose charge.
After months of charging the battery or changing batteries over every week or so I have now
started to try to attempt to resolve the issue.

I believe I have concluded that an electrical short is the problem as when I disconnect the
negative terminal on the battery (small spark) and connect a test light between the cable
and the terminal, the test light bulb glows.

In order to track the fault, I have removed all the fuses I can find hoping that the test
light will go out when a particular fuse is removed thus identifying the circuit with the
problem. Fuses I have removed are: all those at the fuse box behind the glove box, the 2 air
con. fuses at the rear of the bus and 2 in the engine bay. I think(?) one of these is fuse
S51 and the other is a fuse from the Subaru harness. I have found one fuse related to the
LPG system and removed that too.
The test light does not go at at any time one of these fuses is removed.

Unfortunately, I live many hundreds of kilometres from an auto electrician

The Bus:

Is a British spec (ie right hand drive) 1990 Syncro Caravelle GL. To compound the difficulty
in tracking down the fault, it has a 2003 EJ25 Subaru power plant running on petrol and
injected LPG (ie lots of non factory wiring). It was running without fault for over 3 years
with this engine before the fault raised it's head. It has factory fitted air conditioning,
central locking, power steering and power mirrors.

My Conclusions So Far:

None really! I imagine the fault is more likely to be related to the wiring associated with
the engine conversion though even that is a guess and no more.

My Questions:

Can someone please direct me to the location of the fuse on the central locking system (S52,
page 97-227 or the Bently manual) so I can test this circuit?
Also, on that schematic, what does the number 23 mean that is next to the S52 symbol?

Is fuse S51 the one that that was located in the wiring junction box in the LHS of engine
compartment with the original engine set up?

Are there any other fuses located in odd spots around the van that I can remove to check a
circuit?

If I can not find the fault by removing fuses, how on earth do I go about tracking the
fault?

And lastly, if I can not resolve the issue, how would an auto electrician go about doing so?

Many thanks,

Andy,
Ceduna
South Australia
4
I would suggest that this may not be a short, but excessive current draw on the battery(ie ignition off). Start by checking all circuits that do not require the key to be turned on. Also pay particular attention to non genuine accessories that have been added, especially directly to the battery. You need to disconnect the positive terminal and put an amp meter between the battery and lead (don't turn on the ignition or any other high current draws ie high beam, this will blow the amp meter fuse). This will show you how much current draw you have and as you disconnect things you can see which is the offender. Greg
P.S. Car alarms and gps are notorious for causing such problems.


--- On Tue, 9/2/10, Andrew Johns and Ruth Phillips <rafear@internode.on.net> wrote:

From: Andrew Johns and Ruth Phillips <rafear@internode.on.net>
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Electrical Shorting Problem - Help Needed. PLEASE!
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, subaruvanagon@yahoogroups.com, Syncro@yahoogroups.com
Received: Tuesday, 9 February, 2010, 11:28 PM

 
Hi folks,
 
firstly, to those list members who receive this message more than once, my apologies for the cross posting. I have a frustrating problem with our bus and am in need of help........ ....
 
The Problem and Attempts to Track the Fault:
 
About 11 or 12 months ago, our bus started to have a flat battery every 10 to 12 or so days. The battery gets progressively flatter over this time ie. it does not suddenly lose charge. After months of charging the battery or changing batteries over every week or so I have now started to try to attempt to resolve the issue.
 
I believe I have concluded that an electrical short is the problem as when I disconnect the negative terminal on the battery (small spark) and connect a test light between the cable and the terminal, the test light bulb glows.
 
In order to track the fault, I have removed all the fuses I can find hoping that the test light will go out when a particular fuse is removed thus identifying the circuit with the problem. Fuses I have removed are: all those at the fuse box behind the glove box, the 2 air con. fuses at the rear of the bus and 2 in the engine bay. I think(?) one of these is fuse S51 and the other is a fuse from the Subaru harness. I have found one fuse related to the LPG system and removed that too.
The test light does not go at at any time one of these fuses is removed.
 
Unfortunately, I live many hundreds of kilometres from an auto electrician
 
The Bus:
 
Is a British spec (ie right hand drive) 1990 Syncro Caravelle GL. To compound the difficulty in tracking down the fault, it has a 2003 EJ25 Subaru power plant running on petrol and  injected LPG (ie lots of non factory wiring). It was running without fault for over 3 years with this engine before the fault raised it's head. It has factory fitted air conditioning, central locking, power steering and power mirrors.
 
My Conclusions So Far:
 
None really! I imagine the fault is more likely to be related to the wiring associated with the engine conversion though even that is a guess and no more.
 
My Questions:
 
Can someone please direct me to the location of the fuse on the central locking system (S52, page 97-227 or the Bently manual) so I can test this circuit?
Also, on that schematic, what does the number 23 mean that is next to the S52 symbol?
 
Is fuse S51 the one that that was located in the wiring junction box in the LHS of engine compartment with the original engine set up?
 
Are there any other fuses located in odd spots around the van that I can remove to check a circuit?
 
If I can not find the fault by removing fuses, how on earth do I go about tracking the fault?
 
And lastly, if I can not resolve the issue, how would an auto electrician go about doing so?
 
Many thanks,
 
Andy,
Ceduna
South Australia
 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
5
Thank for your replies.
 
Phil the problem appeared gradually over a number of weeks, when nothing else on the van had changed.
 
What can I determine by using an amp meter rather than a test light.
I understand that this will indicte the current being drawn but what does this tell me?
 
Cheers,
 
Andy.
 
6
Andy,
Thanks for the prod. I've long suspected I have a short in my Trakka van due to similar perceived battery drain over a number of years now, but masked by my having a smart charger always connected, so I've been procrastinating.
 
So inspired by you, I've just done your testlight procedure and came up with the test light coming on at the disconnected negative cable and negative battery pole of the starting AND camping batteries. Is that your case as well .. both batteries affected?
 
Looks then like we're the founding members of the SESSIG (Syncro Electrical Short Special Interest Group). Can't say I'm looking forward to sussing this one out ...
 
Cheers.
Ken
 
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com; subaruvanagon@yahoogroups.com; Syncro@yahoogroups.com
From: rafear@internode.on.net
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 22:58:48 +1030
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Electrical Shorting Problem - Help Needed. PLEASE!

 
Hi folks,
 
firstly, to those list members who receive this message more than once, my apologies for the cross posting. I have a frustrating problem with our bus and am in need of help........ ....
 
The Problem and Attempts to Track the Fault:
 
About 11 or 12 months ago, our bus started to have a flat battery every 10 to 12 or so days. The battery gets progressively flatter over this time ie. it does not suddenly lose charge. After months of charging the battery or changing batteries over every week or so I have now started to try to attempt to resolve the issue.
 
I believe I have concluded that an electrical short is the problem as when I disconnect the negative terminal on the battery (small spark) and connect a test light between the cable and the terminal, the test light bulb glows.
 
In order to track the fault, I have removed all the fuses I can find hoping that the test light will go out when a particular fuse is removed thus identifying the circuit with the problem. Fuses I have removed are: all those at the fuse box behind the glove box, the 2 air con. fuses at the rear of the bus and 2 in the engine bay. I think(?) one of these is fuse S51 and the other is a fuse from the Subaru harness. I have found one fuse related to the LPG system and removed that too.
The test light does not go at at any time one of these fuses is removed.
 
Unfortunately, I live many hundreds of kilometres from an auto electrician
 
The Bus:
 
Is a British spec (ie right hand drive) 1990 Syncro Caravelle GL. To compound the difficulty in tracking down the fault, it has a 2003 EJ25 Subaru power plant running on petrol and  injected LPG (ie lots of non factory wiring). It was running without fault for over 3 years with this engine before the fault raised it's head. It has factory fitted air conditioning, central locking, power steering and power mirrors.
 
My Conclusions So Far:
 
None really! I imagine the fault is more likely to be related to the wiring associated with the engine conversion though even that is a guess and no more.
 
My Questions:
 
Can someone please direct me to the location of the fuse on the central locking system (S52, page 97-227 or the Bently manual) so I can test this circuit?
Also, on that schematic, what does the number 23 mean that is next to the S52 symbol?
 
Is fuse S51 the one that that was located in the wiring junction box in the LHS of engine compartment with the original engine set up?
 
Are there any other fuses located in odd spots around the van that I can remove to check a circuit?
 
If I can not find the fault by removing fuses, how on earth do I go about tracking the fault?
 
And lastly, if I can not resolve the issue, how would an auto electrician go about doing so?
 
Many thanks,
 
Andy,
Ceduna
South Australia
 



Find out now Link all your email accounts and social updates with Hotmail.
7

Andy/Ken,

 

Make me a member of ESSIG too , I have this phenomena too , it must be T3 specific  !! It normally takes about 3 weeks of non use to flatten the battery sufficiently to make the starting procedure a non event.

In my case,  I  don’t bother because it draws only milli amps and  I  have connected a tiny solar charger which  I  plug into the plug outlet in the dash (mine has always power, even with ignition off) and this does the trick for me.

Now , if you draw more current Andy, you times that current with the battery voltage and will get the wattage i.e.  draw  0.8 amps  x  12 volts  =  9.6  watts, (Ohm’s Law)

 

 this could be just enough to slightly warm up a component which you could possibly detect with a laser thermometer.   Hartis

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken Garratt
Sent: Thursday, 11 February 2010 1:06 AM
To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Electrical Shorting Problem - Help Needed. PLEASE!

 

 

Andy,
Thanks for the prod. I've long suspected I have a short in my Trakka van due to similar perceived battery drain over a number of years now, but masked by my having a smart charger always connected, so I've been procrastinating.
 
So inspired by you, I've just done your testlight procedure and came up with the test light coming on at the disconnected negative cable and negative battery pole of the starting AND camping batteries. Is that your case as well .. both batteries affected?
 
Looks then like we're the founding members of the SESSIG (Syncro Electrical Short Special Interest Group). Can't say I'm looking forward to sussing this one out ...
 
Cheers.
Ken
 

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com; subaruvanagon@yahoogroups.com; Syncro@yahoogroups.com
From: rafear@internode.on.net
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 22:58:48 +1030
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Electrical Shorting Problem - Help Needed. PLEASE!

 

Hi folks,

 

firstly, to those list members who receive this message more than once, my apologies for the cross posting. I have a frustrating problem with our bus and am in need of help............

 

The Problem and Attempts to Track the Fault:

 

About 11 or 12 months ago, our bus started to have a flat battery every 10 to 12 or so days. The battery gets progressively flatter over this time ie. it does not suddenly lose charge. After months of charging the battery or changing batteries over every week or so I have now started to try to attempt to resolve the issue.

 

I believe I have concluded that an electrical short is the problem as when I disconnect the negative terminal on the battery (small spark) and connect a test light between the cable and the terminal, the test light bulb glows.

 

In order to track the fault, I have removed all the fuses I can find hoping that the test light will go out when a particular fuse is removed thus identifying the circuit with the problem. Fuses I have removed are: all those at the fuse box behind the glove box, the 2 air con. fuses at the rear of the bus and 2 in the engine bay. I think(?) one of these is fuse S51 and the other is a fuse from the Subaru harness. I have found one fuse related to the LPG system and removed that too.

The test light does not go at at any time one of these fuses is removed.

 

Unfortunately, I live many hundreds of kilometres from an auto electrician

 

The Bus:

 

Is a British spec (ie right hand drive) 1990 Syncro Caravelle GL. To compound the difficulty in tracking down the fault, it has a 2003 EJ25 Subaru power plant running on petrol and  injected LPG (ie lots of non factory wiring). It was running without fault for over 3 years with this engine before the fault raised it's head. It has factory fitted air conditioning, central locking, power steering and power mirrors.

 

My Conclusions So Far:

 

None really! I imagine the fault is more likely to be related to the wiring associated with the engine conversion though even that is a guess and no more.

 

My Questions:

 

Can someone please direct me to the location of the fuse on the central locking system (S52, page 97-227 or the Bently manual) so I can test this circuit?

Also, on that schematic, what does the number 23 mean that is next to the S52 symbol?

 

Is fuse S51 the one that that was located in the wiring junction box in the LHS of engine compartment with the original engine set up?

 

Are there any other fuses located in odd spots around the van that I can remove to check a circuit?

 

If I can not find the fault by removing fuses, how on earth do I go about tracking the fault?

 

And lastly, if I can not resolve the issue, how would an auto electrician go about doing so?

 

Many thanks,

 

Andy,

Ceduna

South Australia

 

 

 

Find out now Link all your email accounts and social updates with Hotmail.

8
You should be able to leave your syncro for months without the battery going flat. Unlike modern vehicles, everything should switch off. I would be looking at non VW additions.



> Hartmut Kiehn <hartis@live.com.au> wrote:
>
> Andy/Ken,
>
>
>
> Make me a member of ESSIG too , I have this phenomena too , it must be
> T3
> specific !! It normally takes about 3 weeks of non use to flatten the
> battery sufficiently to make the starting procedure a non event.
>
> In my case, I don't bother because it draws only milli amps and I
> have
> connected a tiny solar charger which I plug into the plug outlet in
> the
> dash (mine has always power, even with ignition off) and this does the
> trick
> for me.
>
> Now , if you draw more current Andy, you times that current with the
> battery
> voltage and will get the wattage i.e. draw 0.8 amps x 12 volts =
> 9.6
> watts, (Ohm's Law)
>
>
>
> this could be just enough to slightly warm up a component which you
> could
> possibly detect with a laser thermometer. Hartis
>
>
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken Garratt
> Sent: Thursday, 11 February 2010 1:06 AM
> To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum
> Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Electrical Shorting Problem - Help
> Needed. PLEASE!
>
>
>
>
>
> Andy,
> Thanks for the prod. I've long suspected I have a short in my Trakka van
> due
> to similar perceived battery drain over a number of years now, but
> masked by
> my having a smart charger always connected, so I've been
> procrastinating.
>
> So inspired by you, I've just done your testlight procedure and came up
> with
> the test light coming on at the disconnected negative cable and negative
> battery pole of the starting AND camping batteries. Is that your case as
> well .. both batteries affected?
>
> Looks then like we're the founding members of the SESSIG (Syncro
> Electrical
> Short Special Interest Group). Can't say I'm looking forward to sussing
> this
> one out ...
>
> Cheers.
> Ken
>
>
> _____
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com; subaruvanagon@yahoogroups.com;
> Syncro@yahoogroups.com
> From: rafear@internode.on.net
> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 22:58:48 +1030
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Electrical Shorting Problem - Help
> Needed.
> PLEASE!
>
>
>
> Hi folks,
>
>
>
> firstly, to those list members who receive this message more than once,
> my
> apologies for the cross posting. I have a frustrating problem with our
> bus
> and am in need of help............
>
>
>
> The Problem and Attempts to Track the Fault:
>
>
>
> About 11 or 12 months ago, our bus started to have a flat battery every
> 10
> to 12 or so days. The battery gets progressively flatter over this time
> ie.
> it does not suddenly lose charge. After months of charging the battery
> or
> changing batteries over every week or so I have now started to try to
> attempt to resolve the issue.
>
>
>
> I believe I have concluded that an electrical short is the problem as
> when I
> disconnect the negative terminal on the battery (small spark) and
> connect a
> test light between the cable and the terminal, the test light bulb
> glows.
>
>
>
> In order to track the fault, I have removed all the fuses I can find
> hoping
> that the test light will go out when a particular fuse is removed thus
> identifying the circuit with the problem. Fuses I have removed are: all
> those at the fuse box behind the glove box, the 2 air con. fuses at the
> rear
> of the bus and 2 in the engine bay. I think(?) one of these is fuse S51
> and
> the other is a fuse from the Subaru harness. I have found one fuse
> related
> to the LPG system and removed that too.
>
> The test light does not go at at any time one of these fuses is removed.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, I live many hundreds of kilometres from an auto
> electrician
>
>
>
> The Bus:
>
>
>
> Is a British spec (ie right hand drive) 1990 Syncro Caravelle GL. To
> compound the difficulty in tracking down the fault, it has a 2003 EJ25
> Subaru power plant running on petrol and injected LPG (ie lots of non
> factory wiring). It was running without fault for over 3 years with this
> engine before the fault raised it's head. It has factory fitted air
> conditioning, central locking, power steering and power mirrors.
>
>
>
> My Conclusions So Far:
>
>
>
> None really! I imagine the fault is more likely to be related to the
> wiring
> associated with the engine conversion though even that is a guess and no
> more.
>
>
>
> My Questions:
>
>
>
> Can someone please direct me to the location of the fuse on the central
> locking system (S52, page 97-227 or the Bently manual) so I can test
> this
> circuit?
>
> Also, on that schematic, what does the number 23 mean that is next to
> the
> S52 symbol?
>
>
>
> Is fuse S51 the one that that was located in the wiring junction box in
> the
> LHS of engine compartment with the original engine set up?
>
>
>
> Are there any other fuses located in odd spots around the van that I can
> remove to check a circuit?
>
>
>
> If I can not find the fault by removing fuses, how on earth do I go
> about
> tracking the fault?
>
>
>
> And lastly, if I can not resolve the issue, how would an auto
> electrician go
> about doing so?
>
>
>
> Many thanks,
>
>
>
> Andy,
>
> Ceduna
>
> South Australia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Find out now Link all your email accounts and social updates with
> Hotmail.
> <http://windowslive.ninemsn.com.au/oneinbox?ocid=T162MSN05A0710G>
9
> Phil the problem appeared gradually over a number of weeks, when nothing
> else on the van had changed.

Maybe the minor problem was there all of the time and now your battery is getting older.


>
> What can I determine by using an amp meter rather than a test light.
> I understand that this will indicte the current being drawn but what
> does this tell me?
>

The test light or ammeter should not register at all when everything is turned off.
10

That’s correct, if you haven’t got a timepiece in your dash that is, so don’t forget to turn that one off before you measure. hartis

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of plander@optusnet.com.au
Sent: Thursday, 11 February 2010 7:31 AM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Electrical Shorting Problem - Help Needed. PLEASE!

 

 



> Phil the problem appeared gradually over a number of weeks, when nothing
> else on the van had changed.

Maybe the minor problem was there all of the time and now your battery is getting older.

>
> What can I determine by using an amp meter rather than a test light.
> I understand that this will indicte the current being drawn but what
> does this tell me?
>

The test light or ammeter should not register at all when everything is turned off.

11
Andy, The ampmeter is going to save you chasing your tail if there is more than one current draw. The test light will be fine if there is one large current draw.If there is two you will pull the fuse of a circuit with a draw on it and the other circuit with draw will keep the test light illuminated. The other issue is the spec for current draw on the t3 is 1-3 mA which is next to nothing (probably just the clock running). If you had 50 mA you may not be able to see this on your test light. Here is a couple of tips which you have probably already thought of. 1-Has the radio been wired to battery and ignition voltage. On Volkswagens people often incorrectly wire the accessory terminal of the radio to battery voltage. 2-Did you say this is a import from GB, if so they often had a time delay interior light circuit located in the drivers courtesy light that could cause this fault. 3-Does anything stay on i.e. lights, l.e.ds, l.c.ds . 4-In my experience it is usually what is done post production that causes these kinds of faults, disconnect all these additions first. Greg

--- On Wed, 10/2/10, Andrew Johns and Ruth Phillips <rafear@internode.on.net> wrote:

From: Andrew Johns and Ruth Phillips <rafear@internode.on.net>
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Electrical Shorting Problem - Help Needed. PLEASE!
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Received: Wednesday, 10 February, 2010, 10:44 PM

 
Thank for your replies.
 
Phil the problem appeared gradually over a number of weeks, when nothing else on the van had changed.
 
What can I determine by using an amp meter rather than a test light.
I understand that this will indicte the current being drawn but what does this tell me?
 
Cheers,
 
Andy.
 

Yahoo!7: Catch-up on your favourite Channel 7 TV shows easily, legally, and for free at PLUS7. Check it out.
12
A few good points Greg. I have also seen the interior light use a small amount of power yet not enough to light the light. It may be an idea to remove all of the interior light globes for a few weeks.



> greg esposito <gregespo73@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Andy, The ampmeter is going to save you chasing your tail if there is
> more than one current draw. The test light will be fine if there is one
> large current draw.If there is two you will pull the fuse of a circuit
> with a draw on it and the other circuit with draw will keep the����test
> light illuminated.����The other issue is the spec for current draw on the
> t3 is 1-3 mA which is next to nothing (probably just the clock running).
> If you had 50 mA you may not be able to see this on your test light.
> Here is a couple of tips which you have probably already thought of.
> 1-Has the radio been wired to battery and ignition voltage. On
> Volkswagens people often incorrectly wire the accessory terminal of the
> radio to battery voltage.����2-Did you say this is a import from GB, if so
> they often had a time delay interior light circuit located in the
> drivers courtesy light that could cause this fault. 3-Does anything stay
> on i.e. lights, l.e.ds, l.c.ds . 4-In my experience it
> is usually what is done post production that causes these kinds of
> faults, disconnect all these additions first. Greg
>
> --- On Wed, 10/2/10, Andrew Johns and Ruth Phillips
> <rafear@internode.on.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: Andrew Johns and Ruth Phillips <rafear@internode.on.net>
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Electrical Shorting Problem - Help
> Needed. PLEASE!
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Received: Wednesday, 10 February, 2010, 10:44 PM
>
>
> ����
>
>
>
>
> Thank for your replies.
> ����
> Phil the problem appeared gradually over a number of weeks, when nothing
> else on the van had changed.
> ����
> What can I determine by using an amp meter rather than a test light.
> I understand that this will����indicte the current being drawn but what
> does this tell me?
> ����
> Cheers,
> ����
> Andy.
> ����
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> _________
> Yahoo!7: Catch-up on your favourite Channel 7 TV shows easily, legally,
> and for free at PLUS7. www.tv.yahoo.com.au/plus7
13
Andy,
As Jim Davis (worldwide Syncro forum) pointed out, the fuse for the powerlocks are an add-on module on top of the main fuse block. At least that is how it's installed on the LHD.
Yours truly has gained some notoriety in his part of the world for driving his Syncros often enough. Some get driven maybe twice a year. Rarely do the vehicle drain their battery in less than 5-6 months of just sitting. Even then, there is still enough to spin the starter once or twice.
Compare that to newer vehicles. My brother's Ferrari sucks it's battery completely flat after about 14 days. On-all-the-time GPS locating system makes quick work of destroying the US$755 battery unless you use a tender. As Phill has pointed, there is little if any draw on components on T3's besides possibly the factory radio and clock.
I don't know if this helps as I did not perform the conversion myself. My 2wd T3 with a 2.2 EJT Subaru engine conversion does drain it's battery if not driven or started every 6-8 weeks. It might be coincidental as the previous owner also installed a host of other aftermarket parts. It might be worth throwing the question to the Subaru conversion in Yahoogroups if you are unable to track down the parasitic battery drain.
--
BenT
14

Ben,

For vehicles that have very low use and/or have a persistent drain problem, there is a battery maintenance charger on the market made by CTEK.  It is an “intelligent” charger that monitors battery state and charges accordingly, then goes to float.  The float is also monitored.  They also make a 6 volt version, which is good for 6V Beetle owners or anyone who has a (low use) vintage motorcycle.  They aren’t cheap but all reports that I read say that they do an excellent job.

I mention this as a solution to your brother’s Ferrari problem, not a solution to Andy’s current loss problem.  I must say that I am impressed with the responses that have come through to Andy’s plea for help.  The responses have reminded me of several things that I would not have thought of.

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of BenT Syncro
Sent: 11 February 2010 09:13
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: [Syncro] Electrical Shorting Problem - Help Needed. PLEASE!

 

Compare that to newer vehicles. My brother's Ferrari sucks it's battery completely flat after about 14 days. On-all-the-time GPS locating system makes quick work of destroying the US$755 battery unless you use a tender. As Phill has pointed, there is little if any draw on components on T3's besides possibly the factory radio and clock.

 

 

15
Andy
 
I also hadyour problem.
After years of using my Syncro for work everyday with no problem,I then retired and my Syncro / battery decided to do likewise.
Being a practical person but not over technical I spent several days chasing the elusive before going to an auto electrician in despair.
He said he wasn't interested and would only do what I did and charge me a fortune.
 
Answer...Fit one new battery (optional) and a kill switch (the big red ones in which you can isolate the battery completely and then remove the key). I fitted mine near drivers lower left seat belt mount next to the battery.
 
Result....Syncro always starts.
             Insurance cost is lower
             The dash clock is right at least twice a day.
              If you ever roll or have an accident you can kill power immediately.(Ex rally experience).
 
Good luck Graham
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 9:13 AM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: [Syncro] Electrical Shorting Problem - Help Needed. PLEASE!

 

Andy,
 
As Jim Davis (worldwide Syncro forum) pointed out, the fuse for the powerlocks are an add-on module on top of the main fuse block. At least that is how it's installed on the LHD.
 
Yours truly has gained some notoriety in his part of the world for driving his Syncros often enough. Some get driven maybe twice a year. Rarely do the vehicle drain their battery in less than 5-6 months of just sitting. Even then, there is still enough to spin the starter once or twice.
 
Compare that to newer vehicles. My brother's Ferrari sucks it's battery completely flat after about 14 days. On-all-the-time GPS locating system makes quick work of destroying the US$755 battery unless you use a tender. As Phill has pointed, there is little if any draw on components on T3's besides possibly the factory radio and clock.
 
I don't know if this helps as I did not perform the conversion myself. My 2wd T3 with a 2.2 EJT Subaru engine conversion does drain it's battery if not driven or started every 6-8 weeks. It might be coincidental as the previous owner also installed a host of other aftermarket parts. It might be worth throwing the question to the Subaru conversion in Yahoogroups if you are unable to track down the parasitic battery drain.
 
 
--
BenT

16
here is what I have found is a 'normal indication' for key-off current flow due to a clock,
either digital or analogue -
 
If you are using the test light method to check for key-off battery drain, when you connect the test light, it will glow fairly brightly at first, then  immediately dimming.  That's a normal sign, from 'clock drainage.'
 
I would be most suspicious of any anti-theft/ alarm systems,
and sound system installations.
 
the drain might not be on a fused circuit.
I have seen a key-off battery drain, where having every last fuse in the entire vehicle out didn't make any difference.
I don't think it's too hard to find the main feed into the back of the fuse box,
and that might be a nice thing to unplug, as a test.
 
if there are multiple wires at the battery positive terminal ...try disconnecting some of those.
surely, 'somewhere' a wire or wires should be able to be found that are 'it'.
 
good luck !
also .....how is it known that the battery itself is not weak ?
Like it just 'looses ooomh' in a week or so ?
one good test is a hydrometer test of each cell.
you find one bad cell and 5 good ones - that battery is weak or dying.
 
Also .....only minor current drain can happen from this one - battery acid on top of the battery.
Get the type of spray battery cleaner that turns red in the presence of acid,
and you will often find that there is a lot of acid on top of a conventional lead-acid battery- and that drains current. though not much at all I'd say, but there is some drain there.
 
more or less, if a battery goes flat sitting for a couple of weeks, it has to be either key-off current drain that's more than normal, or the battery itself is weak.
And of course, all connections have to be in good condition.
I just saw a bad battery ground cable on the engine block of a diesel vanagon. I had put it back on nice n' tight ..
yet when I energize the starter .....sparks jumped about an inch off of that connection.
That would affect starter and charging operation probably, and not cause a current drain ..
but ....'just in case' ....*all connections'*must be checked in the whole van actually.
 
'It's just a blockage or leakage of fluids or electrons."
 
all you have to do is fine 'the' one, or the several causing this issue.
 
good luck again !
Scott
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 12:41 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Electrical Shorting Problem - Help Needed. PLEASE!

 

That’s correct, if you haven’t got a timepiece in your dash that is, so don’t forget to turn that one off before you measure.  hartis

From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Syncro_ T3_Australia@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of plander@optusnet. com.au
Sent: Thursday, 11 February 2010 7:31 AM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Electrical Shorting Problem - Help Needed. PLEASE!

 



> Phil the problem appeared gradually over a number of weeks, when nothing
> else on the van had changed.

Maybe the minor problem was there all of the time and now your battery is getting older.

>
> What can I determine by using an amp meter rather than a test light.
> I understand that this will indicte the current being drawn but what
> does this tell me?
>

The test light or ammeter should not register at all when everything is turned off.

17
Les I have a ctek they are great! greg

--- On Thu, 11/2/10, Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

From: Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] [Syncro] Electrical Shorting Problem - Help Needed. PLEASE!
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Received: Thursday, 11 February, 2010, 9:36 AM

 

Ben,

For vehicles that have very low use and/or have a persistent drain problem, there is a battery maintenance charger on the market made by CTEK.  It is an “intelligent” charger that monitors battery state and charges accordingly, then goes to float.  The float is also monitored.  They also make a 6 volt version, which is good for 6V Beetle owners or anyone who has a (low use) vintage motorcycle.  They aren’t cheap but all reports that I read say that they do an excellent job.

I mention this as a solution to your brother’s Ferrari problem, not a solution to Andy’s current loss problem.  I must say that I am impressed with the responses that have come through to Andy’s plea for help.  The responses have reminded me of several things that I would not have thought of.

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of BenT Syncro
Sent: 11 February 2010 09:13
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: [Syncro] Electrical Shorting Problem - Help Needed. PLEASE!

 

Compare that to newer vehicles. My brother's Ferrari sucks it's battery completely flat after about 14 days. On-all-the-time GPS locating system makes quick work of destroying the US$755 battery unless you use a tender. As Phill has pointed, there is little if any draw on components on T3's besides possibly the factory radio and clock.

 

 


Yahoo!7: Catch-up on your favourite Channel 7 TV shows easily, legally, and for free at PLUS7. Check it out.
18

Greg,

Which one – they make a range of 12V.  Some of them have a truly astonishing initial recovery time.

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of greg esposito
Sent: 11 February 2010 10:08
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] [Syncro] Electrical Shorting Problem - Help Needed. PLEASE!

 

 

    Les I have a ctek they are great! greg


 

 

 

 

 

19
Thanks, Les. I'm afraid to admit my brother has more money than sense. Especially car sense. He insist on using Ferrari branded parts only which translates to lots of Euros for everything including his battery tender.

Almost all the new VW's being sent on out part of the world come with a solar powered battery tender. VW dealers are supposed to give them away to customers upon demand. Some enterprising individuals have made a career of collecting them and reselling in places such as Ebay. They are an inexpensive or maybe free alternative to keep your battery charged. Of course, I am not suggesting that Andy use a the tender to hide his discharging problem.  


Cheers,

BenT
Sent from my mobile device

On Feb 10, 2010, at 2:36 PM, "Les Harris" <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

Ben,

For vehicles that have very low use and/or have a persistent drain problem, there is a battery maintenance charger on the market made by CTEK.  It is an “intelligent” charger that monitors battery state and charges accordingly, then goes to float.  The float is also monitored.  They also make a 6 volt version, which is good for 6V Beetle owners or anyone who has a (low use) vintage motorcycle.  They aren’t cheap but all reports that I read say that they do an excellent job.

I mention this as a solution to your brother’s Ferrari problem, not a solution to Andy’s current loss problem.  I must say that I am impressed with the responses that have come through to Andy’s plea for help.  The responses have reminded me of several things that I would not have thought of.

Les


20
Details, cost????


> greg esposito <gregespo73@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Les I have a ctek they are great! greg
>
> --- On Thu, 11/2/10, Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>
> From: Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au>
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] [Syncro] Electrical Shorting Problem -
> Help Needed. PLEASE!
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Received: Thursday, 11 February, 2010, 9:36 AM
>
>
> ����
>
>
>
>
>
> Ben,
> For vehicles that have very low use and/or have a persistent drain
> problem, there is a battery maintenance charger on the market made by
> CTEK.���� It is an �������intelligent�������� charger that monitors battery state
> and charges accordingly, then goes to float. ����The float is also
> monitored.���� They also make a 6 volt version, which is good for 6V
> Beetle owners or anyone who has a (low use) vintage motorcycle.���� They
> aren��������t cheap but all reports that I read say that they do an excellent
> job.
> I mention this as a solution to your brother��������s Ferrari problem, not a
> solution to Andy��������s current loss problem.���� I must say that I am
> impressed with the responses that have come through to Andy��������s plea for
> help.���� The responses have reminded me of several things that I would
> not have thought of.
> Les
> ����
>
>
>
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia
> @yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of BenT Syncro
> Sent: 11 February 2010 09:13
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: [Syncro] Electrical Shorting Problem
> - Help Needed. PLEASE!
>
>
>
>
>
> ����
>
> Compare that to newer vehicles. My brother's Ferrari sucks it's battery
> completely flat after about 14 days. On-all-the-time GPS locating system
> makes quick work of destroying the US$755 battery unless you use a
> tender. As Phill has pointed, there is little if any draw on����components
> on T3's besides possibly the factory����radio and clock.
>
> ����
> ����
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> _________
> Yahoo!7: Catch-up on your favourite Channel 7 TV shows easily, legally,
> and for free at PLUS7. www.tv.yahoo.com.au/plus7