Gear oil GL-4 / GL-5

1

Syncronauts,

 

The other day I bought  some gear oil for the front diff. Usually, I use Castrol Syntrax 75W-90.

Now it is in a different shape/colour bottle called 'Universal Plus'.

Reading the fine print - it states  "where GL-4 or GL-5 are required". Oh, an interesting development

considering, all the discussion about GL-4 versus GL-5 in our transmission.

The oil has a beige colour and the strong sulphur smell is gone.  

 

Cheers,

Theo

2
Hi Theo,  The front diff is spec'd GL5 level unlike the gearbox which is GL4. The interesting thing that is happening now is that oil manufacturers are developing GL5 oils that don't eat the "Soft" metals in gearboxes that spec gl4. So after years of warning people not to put GL5 in there g/boxes the water has become decidedly murky. Greg
From: Theo Weiss <teows@melbpc.org.au>L%
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 16 March 2014 8:56 AM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Gear oil GL-4 / GL-5

 
Syncronauts,
 
The other day I bought  some gear oil for the front diff. Usually, I use Castrol Syntrax 75W-90.
Now it is in a different shape/colour bottle called 'Universal Plus'.
Reading the fine print - it states  "where GL-4 or GL-5 are required". Oh, an interesting development
considering, all the discussion about GL-4 versus GL-5 in our transmission.
The oil has a beige colour and the strong sulphur smell is gone.  
 
Cheers,
Theo


3
GL4 in gearbox. GL4 or GL5 in front diff.
VW recommendations.
Mobil lubrication engineers recommendations for bronze synchromesh.
Don't argue with me, I'm just the messenger. If you know better than these people so be it.
4
Fill to 10mm below the filler plug.
VW service bulletin from around 1990.
5
some gear oils are rated as both GL4 and 5.
Ultra-Guard Fully Synthetic 75W90 for example.



On 3/19/2014 1:05 AM, plander@optusnet.com.au wrote:

GL4 in gearbox. GL4 or GL5 in front diff.
VW recommendations.
Mobil lubrication engineers recommendations for bronze synchromesh.
Don't argue with me, I'm just the messenger. If you know better than these people so be it.


6
Phill, two years ago I would have agreed with you. Things have changed. Vw's advise was based on oil technology as it existed in 1985. Don't be surprised if the part number for the gear oil that you buy from them gets superseded in the next couple of years.
From: "plander@optusnet.com.au" <plander@optusnet.com.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 19 March 2014 7:15 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Gear oil GL-4 / GL-5

 
Fill to 10mm below the filler plug.
VW service bulletin from around 1990.


7
and yes the fill below the line thing will help prevent diff flange seals leaking.
From: "plander@optusnet.com.au" <plander@optusnet.com.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 19 March 2014 7:15 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Gear oil GL-4 / GL-5

 
Fill to 10mm below the filler plug.
VW service bulletin from around 1990.


8
If I fill to 10mm below the plug, my gear changes get sticky. Have tried many times both before & after the rebuild but always the same.  Eddie.
9

Phil,

 

Lost in translation, I went shopping for some GL-5 for the front diff and came across this new Castrol

gear oil which stated that it also can be used where GL-4 is required. Worthwhile news to share on this

forum I thought. So - no argument.

Mind you I myself, years ago, have used GL-5 for years in the gearbox not knowing any better.

Till it was pointed out to me that it is the wrong oil.

When the gearbox was overhauled in 2012 no visible damage was noticed on the bronze synchromesh

rings and they where used again. So it begs the question how damaging is GL-5.

 

Cheers,

Theo

 

 

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of plander@optusnet.com.au
Sent: Wednesday, 19 March 2014 7:06 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Gear oil GL-4 / GL-5

 

 

GL4 in gearbox. GL4 or GL5 in front diff.
VW recommendations.
Mobil lubrication engineers recommendations for bronze synchromesh.
Don't argue with me, I'm just the messenger. If you know better than these people so be it.

10
What about the advice from the Mobil engineers? That was just a couple of years ago. These specialists were involved with the Porsche Cup racing which has similar synchro construction.
11
Phill no one is saying put GL5 in your g/box here, this is not that old debate. What I am saying is if you go and buy GL4 gear oil for your bus today you may find depending on brand that it meets GL5 spec also. I even bought some penrite pro gear full synth the other day for a T4 and the packet label says "compatible with copper alloy components". I am not saying go buy this and stick it in your t3. I have only noticed this change on the shelves in Aus in the last six months. There has obviously been a technical development recently and I would speculate that if the oil companies now have the opportunity to reduce there gear oil inventory by a third they probably will.
In all the  years that vw buses have been on my radar I have seen a high proportion of gearboxes suffer crown and pinion failure. GL5 synthetic oil will protect these components much better than GL4. So if we can have the protection of gl4 rating and the high load capability of GL 5 it would be like having your cake and eating it too, technology to be embraced not dismissed. 
From: "plander@optusnet.com.au" <plander@optusnet.com.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 20 March 2014 6:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Gear oil GL-4 / GL-5

 
What about the advice from the Mobil engineers? That was just a couple of years ago. These specialists were involved with the Porsche Cup racing which has similar synchro construction.


12
Re Phil's note on Mobil engineers and the Porsche cup,
My Bergmeister is in for it's annual rego checkup with Michael Newton, and I'll be picking it up in a day or so.
I'll discuss it with him.
The Bergmeister is my 1982 T3 with the 3.6 Porsche motor, Michael is a Porsche Cup specialist mechanic,
and Michael has twice worked on my Syncro transmission.

Will let you know what he says.

Peter



--Original Message Text---
From: Greg Esposito
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 14:05:21 -0700 (PDT)




Phill no one is saying put GL5 in your g/box here, this is not that old debate. What I am saying is if you go and buy GL4 gear oil for your bus today you may find depending on brand that it meets GL5 spec also. I even bought some penrite pro gear full synth the other day for a T4 and the packet label says "compatible with copper alloy components". I am not saying go buy this and stick it in your t3. I have only noticed this change on the shelves in Aus in the last six months. There has obviously been a technical development recently and I would speculate that if the oil companies now have the opportunity to reduce there gear oil inventory by a third they probably will.
In all the years that vw buses have been on my radar I have seen a high proportion of gearboxes suffer crown and pinion failure. GL5 synthetic oil will protect these components much better than GL4. So if we can have the protection of gl4 rating and the high load capability of GL 5 it would be like having your cake and eating it too, technology to be embraced not dismissed.


From: "plander@optusnet.com.au" <plander@optusnet.com.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 20 March 2014 6:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Gear oil GL-4 / GL-5


What about the advice from the Mobil engineers? That was just a couple of years ago. These specialists were involved with the Porsche Cup racing which has similar synchro construction.




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13
I'm only repeating what the oil specialists told me. They would know more than any mechanic or gearbox rebuilder would.
I have no idea what the actual performance or chemical difference is between GL4 and GL5.
14
Phill, you are completely missing the point. This is not about putting GL5 in a syncro transaxle. I have always advocated the use of GL4 in syncro transaxles. This is about a NEW product which is BOTH GL4 and GL5 certified. You had a conversation with oil specialist about wether or not to put GL5 in a gearbox that should have GL4. They said use GL4. I 100% agree with that. What we need to find out from said oil specialists is what has changed in oil technology that they can offer both ratings in the ONE product. Is it just the MT1 rating? I am not claiming nor have I ever claimed to know more than a chemical engineer, I am merely pointing out what is available from oil companies.
From: "plander@optusnet.com.au" <plander@optusnet.com.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 20 March 2014 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Gear oil GL-4 / GL-5

 
I'm only repeating what the oil specialists told me. They would know more than any mechanic or gearbox rebuilder would.
I have no idea what the actual performance or chemical difference is between GL4 and GL5.


15
Dear All,
I have picked up the Bergmeister and "flown" home in it, she goes like the wind,
but before I left, as promised, I had a chat with Michael Newton, Porsche engineer and gearbox professional..

Did he help with regard to our discussion on GL4 versus GL5 and claims that there are oils that are satisfactory as both GL4 & GL5.

The answer is no.

But what he did say is that he uses oils that work and give his customers the least problems.
Are the oils he uses today the same as what he used ten/twenty years ago ?
No, but most have the same names and the cursory details are the same.
What he means is that he is still using "X" but the manufacturer of "X" has continually improved the product.

Michael has made one significant change over the years, and that is he only uses synthetic oils.

So where to from here ?
I downloaded the attached PDF from the web after putting the words "GL4 gearbox oil" in as a Google subject enquiry.
It covers much of what has been raised in our E-mail discussion.

After reading it, I suggest that I'll consider following manufacturer's instructions, all the while realizing that the oils we buy today are very different to what we had available 10, let alone 20 years ago.
This means that I will probably use a top brand Synthetic Multigrade GL4/GL5 such as:
Penrite Full Synthetic PRO GEAR 75/90.
For more on this and other Penrite gear oils go to:
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/tech_pdfs/1200%20-%20Gear%20Oil%20Range%20Update%20Aug%202012.pdf

Hope this helps, and thanks to those who raised it.
I will continue to be interested in this discussion and hope that we might find even more definitive help.

Peter



.






--Original Message Text---
From: Greg Esposito
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 01:25:06 -0700 (PDT)




Phill, you are completely missing the point. This is not about putting GL5 in a syncro transaxle. I have always advocated the use of GL4 in syncro transaxles. This is about a NEW product which is BOTH GL4 and GL5 certified. You had a conversation with oil specialist about wether or not to put GL5 in a gearbox that should have GL4. They said use GL4. I 100% agree with that. What we need to find out from said oil specialists is what has changed in oil technology that they can offer both ratings in the ONE product. Is it just the MT1 rating? I am not claiming nor have I ever claimed to know more than a chemical engineer, I am merely pointing out what is available from oil companies.


From: "plander@optusnet.com.au" <plander@optusnet.com.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 20 March 2014 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Gear oil GL-4 / GL-5


I'm only repeating what the oil specialists told me. They would know more than any mechanic or gearbox rebuilder would.
I have no idea what the actual performance or chemical difference is between GL4 and GL5.




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16
Just to through my 2 cents in,  When I recently rebuilt my gearbox with new crown wheel and pinion, bearings oiler plate, Locker (LSD) and so on. I looked into what was available to help protect my sizable investment. This is what I finally came up with after talking with some rally gearbox builders (Red Line Lightweight shockproof gear oil).  It's not cheap and probable over kill but don't want to have any issues.  I have only done about 5K since it went in so really don't know how it is performing but no issues so far. Using it in the front locker as well.

Cheers,

Michael R




On Thursday, March 20, 2014 10:59:18 PM, Peter Schweinsberg <peter@peterandval.com> wrote:
 
Dear All,
I have picked up the Bergmeister and "flown" home in it, she goes like the wind,
but before I left, as promised, I had a chat with Michael Newton, Porsche engineer and gearbox professional..

Did he help with regard to our discussion on GL4 versus GL5 and claims that there are oils that are satisfactory as both GL4 GL5.

The answer is no.

But what he did say is that he uses oils that work and give his customers the least problems.
Are the oils he uses today the same as what he used ten/twenty years ago ?
No, but most have the same names and the cursory details are the same.
What he means is that he is still using "X" but the manufacturer of "X" has continually improved the product.

Michael has made one significant change over the years, and that is he only uses synthetic oils.

So where to from here ?
I downloaded the attached PDF from the web after putting the words "GL4 gearbox oil" in as a Google subject enquiry.
It covers much of what has been raised in our E-mail discussion.

After reading it, I suggest that I'll consider following manufacturer's instructions, all the while realizing that the oils we buy today are very different to what we had available 10, let alone 20 years ago.
This means that I will probably use a top brand Synthetic Multigrade GL4/GL5 such as:
Penrite Full Synthetic PRO GEAR 75/90.
For more on this and other Penrite gear oils go to:
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/tech_pdfs/1200%20-%20Gear%20Oil%20Range%20Update%20Aug%202012.pdf

Hope this helps, and thanks to those who raised it.
I will continue to be interested in this discussion and hope that we might find even more definitive help.

Peter



.






--Original Message Text---
From: Greg Esposito
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 01:25:06 -0700 (PDT)




Phill, you are completely missing the point. This is not about putting GL5 in a syncro transaxle. I have always advocated the use of GL4 in syncro transaxles. This is about a NEW product which is BOTH GL4 and GL5 certified. You had a conversation with oil specialist about wether or not to put GL5 in a gearbox that should have GL4. They said use GL4. I 100% agree with that. What we need to find out from said oil specialists is what has changed in oil technology that they can offer both ratings in the ONE product. Is it just the MT1 rating? I am not claiming nor have I ever claimed to know more than a chemical engineer, I am merely pointing out what is available from oil companies.


From: "plander@optusnet.com.au" <plander@optusnet.com.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 20 March 2014 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Gear oil GL-4 / GL-5


I'm only repeating what the oil specialists told me. They would know more than any mechanic or gearbox rebuilder would.
I have no idea what the actual performance or chemical difference is between GL4 and GL5.




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17
Thanks for this Michael,
As I read, it I thought of another thing that Michael Newton mentioned in our gearbox oil discussion,
and that was the need of good protection of high load components like crown wheels and pinions.
Michael used the word "Hypoy", a word I associate with Castrol but one that I think is being superceded.
This is exactly what the oil you have adopted does, although the upper viscosity number is possibly a little high.

I have attached a Castrol Hypoy C 75W-90 product sheet.
They say that it exceeds API Service GL-5 lubricant standards.
So I'd seriously consider it along with your Red Line and the Penrite products.

Peter





--Original Message Text---
From: Michael Roberts
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 16:10:46 -0700 (PDT)



Just to through my 2 cents in, When I recently rebuilt my gearbox with new crown wheel and pinion, bearings oiler plate, Locker (LSD) and so on. I looked into what was available to help protect my sizable investment. This is what I finally came up with after talking with some rally gearbox builders (Red Line Lightweight shockproof gear oil). It's not cheap and probable over kill but don't want to have any issues. I have only done about 5K since it went in so really don't know how it is performing but no issues so far. Using it in the front locker as well.


Cheers,


Michael R






On Thursday, March 20, 2014 10:59:18 PM, Peter Schweinsberg <peter@peterandval.com> wrote:

Dear All,
I have picked up the Bergmeister and "flown" home in it, she goes like the wind,
but before I left, as promised, I had a chat with Michael Newton, Porsche engineer and gearbox professional..

Did he help with regard to our discussion on GL4 versus GL5 and claims that there are oils that are satisfactory as both GL4 GL5.

The answer is no.

But what he did say is that he uses oils that work and give his customers the least problems.
Are the oils he uses today the same as what he used ten/twenty years ago ?
No, but most have the same names and the cursory details are the same.
What he means is that he is still using "X" but the manufacturer of "X" has continually improved the product.

Michael has made one significant change over the years, and that is he only uses synthetic oils.

So where to from here ?
I downloaded the attached PDF from the web after putting the words "GL4 gearbox oil" in as a Google subject enquiry.
It covers much of what has been raised in our E-mail discussion.

After reading it, I suggest that I'll consider following manufacturer's instructions, all the while realizing that the oils we buy today are very different to what we had available 10, let alone 20 years ago.
This means that I will probably use a top brand Synthetic Multigrade GL4/GL5 such as:
Penrite Full Synthetic PRO GEAR 75/90.
For more on this and other Penrite gear oils go to:
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/tech_pdfs/1200%20-%20Gear%20Oil%20Range%20Update%20Aug%202012.pdf

Hope this helps, and thanks to those who raised it.
I will continue to be interested in this discussion and hope that we might find even more definitive help.

Peter



.






--Original Message Text---
From: Greg Esposito
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 01:25:06 -0700 (PDT)




Phill, you are completely missing the point. This is not about putting GL5 in a syncro transaxle. I have always advocated the use of GL4 in syncro transaxles. This is about a NEW product which is BOTH GL4 and GL5 certified. You had a conversation with oil specialist about wether or not to put GL5 in a gearbox that should have GL4. They said use GL4. I 100% agree with that. What we need to find out from said oil specialists is what has changed in oil technology that they can offer both ratings in the ONE product. Is it just the MT1 rating? I am not claiming nor have I ever claimed to know more than a chemical engineer, I am merely pointing out what is available from oil companies.


From: "plander@optusnet.com.au" <plander@optusnet.com.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 20 March 2014 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Gear oil GL-4 / GL-5


I'm only repeating what the oil specialists told me. They would know more than any mechanic or gearbox rebuilder would.
I have no idea what the actual performance or chemical difference is between GL4 and GL5.




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18

Peter,Michael,

 

Thank you for information sent - interesting stuff.

With my gearbox rebuild, I also use Red Line Lightweight Shockproof gear oil. Chosen by the mechanic, and yes

it is rather thick/heavy but no sulphur smell.

By the way Peter could you tell us Michael Newton business address for our Australia wide T3 Workshop data base.

 

Thanks

Theo

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Schweinsberg
Sent: Saturday, 22 March 2014 3:33 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Gear oil GL-4 / GL-5

 

 

Thanks for this Michael,
As I read, it I thought of another thing that Michael Newton mentioned in our gearbox oil discussion,
and that was the need of good protection of high load components like crown wheels and pinions.
Michael used the word "Hypoy", a word I associate with Castrol but one that I think is being superceded.
This is exactly what the oil you have adopted does, although the upper viscosity number is possibly a little high.

I have attached a Castrol Hypoy C 75W-90 product sheet.
They say that it exceeds API Service GL-5 lubricant standards.
So I'd seriously consider it along with your Red Line and the Penrite products.

Peter





--Original Message Text---
From: Michael Roberts
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 16:10:46 -0700 (PDT)



Just to through my 2 cents in, When I recently rebuilt my gearbox with new crown wheel and pinion, bearings oiler plate, Locker (LSD) and so on. I looked into what was available to help protect my sizable investment. This is what I finally came up with after talking with some rally gearbox builders (Red Line Lightweight shockproof gear oil). It's not cheap and probable over kill but don't want to have any issues. I have only done about 5K since it went in so really don't know how it is performing but no issues so far. Using it in the front locker as well.


Cheers,


Michael R






On Thursday, March 20, 2014 10:59:18 PM, Peter Schweinsberg <peter@peterandval.com> wrote:

Dear All,
I have picked up the Bergmeister and "flown" home in it, she goes like the wind,
but before I left, as promised, I had a chat with Michael Newton, Porsche engineer and gearbox professional..

Did he help with regard to our discussion on GL4 versus GL5 and claims that there are oils that are satisfactory as both GL4 GL5.

The answer is no.

But what he did say is that he uses oils that work and give his customers the least problems.
Are the oils he uses today the same as what he used ten/twenty years ago ?
No, but most have the same names and the cursory details are the same.
What he means is that he is still using "X" but the manufacturer of "X" has continually improved the product.

Michael has made one significant change over the years, and that is he only uses synthetic oils.

So where to from here ?
I downloaded the attached PDF from the web after putting the words "GL4 gearbox oil" in as a Google subject enquiry.
It covers much of what has been raised in our E-mail discussion.

After reading it, I suggest that I'll consider following manufacturer's instructions, all the while realizing that the oils we buy today are very different to what we had available 10, let alone 20 years ago.
This means that I will probably use a top brand Synthetic Multigrade GL4/GL5 such as:
Penrite Full Synthetic PRO GEAR 75/90.
For more on this and other Penrite gear oils go to:
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/tech_pdfs/1200%20-%20Gear%20Oil%20Range%20Update%20Aug%202012.pdf

Hope this helps, and thanks to those who raised it.
I will continue to be interested in this discussion and hope that we might find even more definitive help.

Peter



.






--Original Message Text---
From: Greg Esposito
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 01:25:06 -0700 (PDT)




Phill, you are completely missing the point. This is not about putting GL5 in a syncro transaxle. I have always advocated the use of GL4 in syncro transaxles. This is about a NEW product which is BOTH GL4 and GL5 certified. You had a conversation with oil specialist about wether or not to put GL5 in a gearbox that should have GL4. They said use GL4. I 100% agree with that. What we need to find out from said oil specialists is what has changed in oil technology that they can offer both ratings in the ONE product. Is it just the MT1 rating? I am not claiming nor have I ever claimed to know more than a chemical engineer, I am merely pointing out what is available from oil companies.


From: "plander@optusnet.com.au" <plander@optusnet.com.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 20 March 2014 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Gear oil GL-4 / GL-5


I'm only repeating what the oil specialists told me. They would know more than any mechanic or gearbox rebuilder would.
I have no idea what the actual performance or chemical difference is between GL4 and GL5.































19
Here it is Theo.

Michael Newton Automotive
Motor Engineers & Repairers
1/ 13 Aspinall Pl,
Mulgrave NSW 2756
Phone (02) 4577 9166

Just remember, he is first and foremost a Porsche Cup specialist
and his racing clients come first.
I only take the Bergmeister to him,
because he did the engine / transmission installation for me.

He does not work on the Syncro,
although Mark Hammond, when he was still in business,
sent my Syncro Transmission to him twice.

Peter




--Original Message Text---
From: Theo Weiss
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 13:49:27 +1100

v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}



Peter,Michael,



Thank you for information sent - interesting stuff.

With my gearbox rebuild, I also use Red Line Lightweight Shockproof gear oil. Chosen by the mechanic, and yes

it is rather thick/heavy but no sulphur smell.

By the way Peter could you tell us Michael Newton business address for our Australia wide T3 Workshop data base.



Thanks

Theo



From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Schweinsberg
Sent: Saturday, 22 March 2014 3:33 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Gear oil GL-4 / GL-5







Thanks for this Michael,
As I read, it I thought of another thing that Michael Newton mentioned in our gearbox oil discussion,
and that was the need of good protection of high load components like crown wheels and pinions.
Michael used the word "Hypoy", a word I associate with Castrol but one that I think is being superceded.
This is exactly what the oil you have adopted does, although the upper viscosity number is possibly a little high.

I have attached a Castrol Hypoy C 75W-90 product sheet.
They say that it exceeds API Service GL-5 lubricant standards.
So I'd seriously consider it along with your Red Line and the Penrite products.

Peter





--Original Message Text---
From: Michael Roberts
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 16:10:46 -0700 (PDT)



Just to through my 2 cents in, When I recently rebuilt my gearbox with new crown wheel and pinion, bearings oiler plate, Locker (LSD) and so on. I looked into what was available to help protect my sizable investment. This is what I finally came up with after talking with some rally gearbox builders (Red Line Lightweight shockproof gear oil). It's not cheap and probable over kill but don't want to have any issues. I have only done about 5K since it went in so really don't know how it is performing but no issues so far. Using it in the front locker as well.


Cheers,


Michael R






On Thursday, March 20, 2014 10:59:18 PM, Peter Schweinsberg <peter@peterandval.com> wrote:

Dear All,
I have picked up the Bergmeister and "flown" home in it, she goes like the wind,
but before I left, as promised, I had a chat with Michael Newton, Porsche engineer and gearbox professional..

Did he help with regard to our discussion on GL4 versus GL5 and claims that there are oils that are satisfactory as both GL4 GL5.

The answer is no.

But what he did say is that he uses oils that work and give his customers the least problems.
Are the oils he uses today the same as what he used ten/twenty years ago ?
No, but most have the same names and the cursory details are the same.
What he means is that he is still using "X" but the manufacturer of "X" has continually improved the product.

Michael has made one significant change over the years, and that is he only uses synthetic oils.

So where to from here ?
I downloaded the attached PDF from the web after putting the words "GL4 gearbox oil" in as a Google subject enquiry.
It covers much of what has been raised in our E-mail discussion.

After reading it, I suggest that I'll consider following manufacturer's instructions, all the while realizing that the oils we buy today are very different to what we had available 10, let alone 20 years ago.
This means that I will probably use a top brand Synthetic Multigrade GL4/GL5 such as:
Penrite Full Synthetic PRO GEAR 75/90.
For more on this and other Penrite gear oils go to:
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/tech_pdfs/1200%20-%20Gear%20Oil%20Range%20Update%20Aug%202012.pdf

Hope this helps, and thanks to those who raised it.
I will continue to be interested in this discussion and hope that we might find even more definitive help.

Peter



.






--Original Message Text---
From: Greg Esposito
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 01:25:06 -0700 (PDT)




Phill, you are completely missing the point. This is not about putting GL5 in a syncro transaxle. I have always advocated the use of GL4 in syncro transaxles. This is about a NEW product which is BOTH GL4 and GL5 certified. You had a conversation with oil specialist about wether or not to put GL5 in a gearbox that should have GL4. They said use GL4. I 100% agree with that. What we need to find out from said oil specialists is what has changed in oil technology that they can offer both ratings in the ONE product. Is it just the MT1 rating? I am not claiming nor have I ever claimed to know more than a chemical engineer, I am merely pointing out what is available from oil companies.


From: "plander@optusnet.com.au" <plander@optusnet.com.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 20 March 2014 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Gear oil GL-4 / GL-5


I'm only repeating what the oil specialists told me. They would know more than any mechanic or gearbox rebuilder would.
I have no idea what the actual performance or chemical difference is between GL4 and GL5.









































20
Hi All,

I will be putting Swepco 201 (non-synthetic) into my reco transmission after reading some of the US forums. Prior to reading I would have gone with the redline - which apparently is still very good (though they may have had minor drop in quality in recent years).

Sam