Instrument Cluster

Les,
 
Your circumstance is no different to mine re cluster replacement so should be pretty straightforward albeit fiddly.
 
This replacement project I found to be something not to be entered into lightly or you could come unstuck/get your fingers burnt in the process. Finding a cluster in either good nic or one that is at least fully repairable is the key .... and may take quite some time and patience to uncover a suitable cluster. You may fluke a cheaper one but $US200 plus as well as say minimum $US50-60 for shipping is not unusual for one in claimed reasonably good condition. But do expect repairs will be needed somewhere, they are getting on a bit age wise. Though mine is good still after I carried out repairs and maintenance and strengthening .. no problemo. mine was claimed to be in very good nic by the seller.  Haha
 
Issues for example and this is not an exhaustive list:
 
Search for as late a year model cluster as you can find, say for example 1989 and later would be nice. Someone else will know more on this but the later clusters had included the oil pressure switch circuitry (my mind is failing me on this ... its something like that) Getting an early model, you may end up disappointed. Anyone care to clarify this better?
 
Some have broken/shattered plastic corners to and beyond the rear fastening positions of the actual instrument housings ... some are worse than others, some don't give you a full and frank description, some say "It's in good shape", just love that gobbledegook phrase.
 
Some have broken plastic fasten down tabs where the cluster is screw fastened to the dash panel. Avoid these.
 
Some have non-working digital clocks, although they "may" just need some TLC attention to get working again.
 
Some have blown instrument light globes.
 
Some have broken front alignment tabs where the cover piece aligns with the cluster housing.
 
The instrument cluster circuitry foils on the rear of the replacement cluster are all correct as is ...no problem, so long as they are not missing/damaged/torn/whatever.
 
The question of final drive ratio doesn't come into it at all. You simply remove the foreign speedometer instrument from the cluster you buy and fit in its place your own syncro speedometer instrument and then refit to it your existing speedo cable ... just as it was before.
 
The "handbrake ON" warning light module (LHS of cluster) in your present cluster is also re-used ... a simple swap out/in. The module we don't use here is the seatbelt warning.
 
You also get an extra switch on the RHS ... its typically to switch on/off the rear window defogger. If you don't have a defogger, I re-deployed it as my on/off switch for my pair of front spotlights ... much more elegant solution than the toggle switch I had before.
 
It comes down to sniffing out/getting a feel for the good ones on offer, ignoring the suss ones .... all takes time and online searching ad nauseum till you strike a gooden.
 
Can't think of anything else other than if you try the german source, you may need a translator assistant, especially if you feel you need to ask detailed questions to the seller.
 
Cheers.
 
Ken
 
 
 

 

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: leslieharris@optusnet.com.au
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 21:40:37 +1100
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Instrument Cluster

 

Ken,

I was unsure about where the drive comes from but if you fitted a US cluster and as far as I know the US delivered Syncros were all 4.86 final drive ratio, that probably answers the question – it must be wheel related, not ratio related. 

It is now a matter of determining if the wiring in mine will take the tacho cluster.

 

Phill,

Did your cryptic “yes” mean that you have fitted a tacho cluster?  If so, where did you source it and did it adapt directly or were mods needed?

Les

 

 

 

 


From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken Garratt
Sent: 14 December 2010 20:47
To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Instrument Cluster

 

 

Les,
 
Phill probably knows the answer to the first question.
 
I installed the digital clock & tacho model cluster some time ago, bought on US eBay.
 
Cheers.
 
Ken 
 


To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: subimanx@dodo.com.au
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 09:35:33 +0000
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Instrument Cluster

 

I might strip the loom from the Caravelle and have a looksie then....

Sent via BlackBerry® from Vodafone

From: thaivwclub@yahoo.com

Sender: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com

Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 09:29:21 +0000

To: <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>

ReplyTo: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Instrument Cluster

 

 

I used to replace clock with tachometer on my T3 diesel.

You need to have the right foil (the back of the cluster) for tachometer.

I was lucky I found the foil with centre dash clock with tachometer ;-)

What do you want to know?

Pat

Sent from my BlackBerry® by dtac.

From: "syncroaustralia" <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au>

Sender: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com

Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 07:55:49 -0000

To: <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>

ReplyTo: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Instrument Cluster

 

 

This is probably covered somewhere but can anyone tell me if the speedo is driven at wheel speed?  And has anyone replaced the clock instrument cluster with a tacho cluster?
Thanks
Les   

 

 


Phill,the clock is analouge.

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Ben Croft <bencroft96@...> wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone know of a fix for a clock not working in the instrument
> > cluster?
> >
> >
>
> Digital or analogue???
>
I have one Justin.



> bencroft96 <bencroft96@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Phill,the clock is analouge.
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Ben Croft <bencroft96@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Does anyone know of a fix for a clock not working in the instrument
> > > cluster?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Digital or analogue???
> >
Wow! Don't see too many dokas down in oz. too bad it aint a syncro:( Lots of syncros for sale too if anyone's looking
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/VW-Transporter-Syncro-T3-4x4-Kombi-Camper-/130464632707?pt=AU_Cars&hash=item1e604c4f83
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Volkswagon-Syncro-T3-4-x-4-/120659838108?pt=AU_Cars&hash=item1c17e3049c
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/VW-SYNCRO-4X4-CAMPERVAN-/320627170624?pt=AU_Cars&hash=item4aa6de5d40

 

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gary@twentytwentyone.net
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 09:18:13 +1100
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] fleabay

 
Gary,
 
I know this twin cab T3 - it is a high mileage but completely rebuilt beauty.
 
The Owner Dave works on films and ends up being away for 6-8 months at a time for work and hence he doesn't get to drive the ute.
 
It is in very good condition and I know he has one of those lovely tacho/ digital clock clusters in it from an 87 caravelle he was wrecking some time ago.
 
Dave is a real nice bloke and loves his DOKA - and I cant understand why he is selling????
 
Skot
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 9:18 AM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] fleabay

 

Many thanks for the many responses to my request for instrument cluster information, and particularly to Ken for his usual thorough documentation.

My life is a bit upsidedown this year.   I have many competing priorities and the cluster is fair way down the list but the responses will take a lot of searching out of doing something about it.

Les

Les,

A recent discussion started on the Vanagon List got me thinking to revisit this thread.

Apparently, the speedometer drive is matched to the gear ratio. It would interesting to confirm this via differing part numbers.


BenT


On Dec 14, 2010, at 12:38 AM, "Les Harris" <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

Ben,

My odometer has stopped.  It might be fixable but I am looking at the possibility of replacing the instrument cluster with a tacho panel.   What I don’t know at the moment is whether it is dependent on the diff ratio or if it just drives at wheel speed (or half wheel speed).

Les

 


From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of BenT Syncro
Sent: 14 December 2010 19:31
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Cc: leslieharris@optusnet.com.au
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Instrument Cluster

 

 

Les,

 

The speedo is driven at at the front diff. IIRC, it's have wheel speed. 

 

Yes, I have replaced clocks with tachs several times. It's always simpler to replace the whole cluster when possible. It's obviously more economical to install your speedo in a tach equipped cluster instead. What do you need to know?

 

 

BenT

Sent from my taco bell


On Dec 13, 2010, at 11:55 PM, "syncroaustralia" <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

This is probably covered somewhere but can anyone tell me if the speedo is driven at wheel speed?  And has anyone replaced the clock instrument cluster with a tacho cluster?

Thanks

Les   

Didn't realize Les sent copy to the group. In the interest of continuity, I'm forwarding my response to him.


BenT

Begin forwarded message:
>

> Hey Les,
>
> Happy New Year! I've done the odometer repair many times. Drop of glue keeps it on longer.
>
> As for gearing, current info I have says 19 teeth in the white differential box. There is a red version. I await further details on it. Wheel speed have to be correlated to speedo regardless of MPH or KPH. The conversion MPH and KPH happens at the speedo head. Compensating for ratios, apparently happens at the box attached to the
> diff.
>
> Congrats on the past 8 years and the next multiples of 8.
>
>
> BenT
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Les Harris
> <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>> Ben,
>>
>> When I pulled the panel out, I found that a spur gear had moved along its
>> shaft and disengaged. The gear is nylon and is a push fit; it has no
>> retainer. I pushed it back into engagement and the odometer now functions.
>>
>> Most of the replies suggested that the speedo is driven at wheel speed and
>> is not related to the gear ration of the diff. What I have not done is
>> check ETKA to see if there are different speedos for different gear ratios.
>> Following your prompt, I will do so.
>>
>> Best wishes for 2011 Ben and thanks for the many valuable contributions that
>> you have made to the group over the years.
>>
>> Les
>>
>> Sent from my now-functioning odometer.
>>
>> (I have just looked at ETKA and it shows only two speedos – one in MPH and
>> one in KPH. I am not entirely sure about this but Phill holds all of the
>> several versions of ETKA that we use. Phill, can you add anything to this?)
>>
>> ____________________________
>>

Ben,

The ETKA illustration shows one drive cable with box halfway along its length but the item number – 6 – is not referenced, nor is the cable to which it is fitted – 3 – so I have no idea what it is.  Is this the differential box that you are referring to or is that something else?

This leaves one MPH speedo, with and without odometer, and one KPH speedo, with and without odometer.  Since the Model column is empty, I presume that these two are the only two available for the T3.

Does this sound right?

(I am still waiting for Phill to get out of bed and log in.)

Les


From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of BenT Syncro
Sent: 30 December 2010 15:24
To: Syncro T3 Australia Group
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Instrument Cluster

 

 

Didn't realize Les sent copy to the group. In the interest of continuity, I'm forwarding my response to him.

BenT

Begin forwarded message:

>

> Hey Les,
>
> Happy New Year! I've done the odometer repair many times. Drop of glue
keeps it on longer.
>
> As for gearing, current info I have says 19 teeth in the white
differential box. There is a red version. I await further details on it. Wheel speed have to be correlated to speedo regardless of MPH or KPH. The conversion MPH and KPH happens at the speedo head. Compensating for ratios, apparently happens at the box attached to the
> diff.
>
> Congrats on the past 8 years and the next multiples of 8.
>
>
> BenT

Les the box is not fitted to our vans. It is the counter for the "oxs" light on the american vans. Greg E

--- On Thu, 30/12/10, Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

From: Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Instrument Cluster
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Received: Thursday, 30 December, 2010, 3:48 PM

 

Ben,

The ETKA illustration shows one drive cable with box halfway along its length but the item number – 6 – is not referenced, nor is the cable to which it is fitted – 3 – so I have no idea what it is.  Is this the differential box that you are referring to or is that something else?

This leaves one MPH speedo, with and without odometer, and one KPH speedo, with and without odometer.  Since the Model column is empty, I presume that these two are the only two available for the T3.

Does this sound right?

(I am still waiting for Phill to get out of bed and log in.)

Les


From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of BenT Syncro
Sent: 30 December 2010 15:24
To: Syncro T3 Australia Group
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Instrument Cluster

 

 

Didn't realize Les sent copy to the group. In the interest of continuity, I'm forwarding my response to him.

BenT

Begin forwarded message:
>

> Hey Les,
>
> Happy New Year! I've done the odometer repair many times. Drop of glue keeps it on longer.
>
> As for gearing, current info I have says 19 teeth in the white differential box. There is a red version. I await further details on it. Wheel speed have to be correlated to speedo regardless of MPH or KPH. The conversion MPH and KPH happens at the speedo head. Compensating for ratios, apparently happens at the box attached to the
> diff.
>
> Congrats on the past 8 years and the next multiples of 8.
>
>
> BenT


 

Greg,

That sounds like a counter that prompts the driver to have the O2 sensor checked or replaced.  True?

Les

 


From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of greg esposito
Sent: 30 December 2010 17:58
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Instrument Cluster

 

 

Les,

This is the piece I am talking about:

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/3094088.jpg

Clearly not the Ox sensor mileage reminder as found on US Vanagons.;-)


BenT



On Dec 29, 2010, at 11:03 PM, "Les Harris" <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

Greg,

That sounds like a counter that prompts the driver to have the O2 sensor checked or replaced.  True?

Les

 


From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of greg esposito
Sent: 30 December 2010 17:58
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Instrument Cluster

 

 

//geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97476590/grpId=13267315/grpspId=1709926240/msgId=11594/stime=1293692643" width="1" height="1">

Ben,

I will have to open it up again and look to see if it is the same nylon gear.  I will get a pic of it.

The reference to the O2 sensor concerns the box in the middle of one of the drive cables.  The ETKA illustration shows an electrical socket on the box, which suggests that it is sending information somewhere.

Les


From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of BenT Syncro
Sent: 30 December 2010 18:37
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Instrument Cluster

 

 

Les,

 

This is the piece I am talking about:

 

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/3094088.jpg

 

Clearly not the Ox sensor mileage reminder as found on US Vanagons.;-)

 

 

BenT



On Dec 29, 2010, at 11:03 PM, "Les Harris" <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

Greg,

That sounds like a counter that prompts the driver to have the O2 sensor checked or replaced.  True?

Les

Les and Ben, It may be a case of tomaatoe and toomatoe but I would describe Ben's pic as a speedo drive and the item you are seeing on etka is the O2 sensor reader which goes off to tell the driver to replace his O2 sensor (as needed by law in some states I think). Greg E

--- On Thu, 30/12/10, Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

From: Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Instrument Cluster
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Received: Thursday, 30 December, 2010, 6:43 PM

 

Ben,

I will have to open it up again and look to see if it is the same nylon gear.  I will get a pic of it.

The reference to the O2 sensor concerns the box in the middle of one of the drive cables.  The ETKA illustration shows an electrical socket on the box, which suggests that it is sending information somewhere.

Les


From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of BenT Syncro
Sent: 30 December 2010 18:37
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Instrument Cluster

 

 

Les,

 

This is the piece I am talking about:

 

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/3094088.jpg

 

Clearly not the Ox sensor mileage reminder as found on US Vanagons.;-)

 

 

BenT



On Dec 29, 2010, at 11:03 PM, "Les Harris" <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

Greg,

That sounds like a counter that prompts the driver to have the O2 sensor checked or replaced.  True?

Les


 
Les,

No need to dismantle your instrument cluster. This drive gear is attached to front differential. I am quite quite familiar with the NoOxBoxForOZ fact.


BenT

On Dec 29, 2010, at 11:43 PM, "Les Harris" <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

Ben,

I will have to open it up again and look to see if it is the same nylon gear.  I will get a pic of it.

The reference to the O2 sensor concerns the box in the middle of one of the drive cables.  The ETKA illustration shows an electrical socket on the box, which suggests that it is sending information somewhere.

Les


From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of BenT Syncro
Sent: 30 December 2010 18:37
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Instrument Cluster

 

 

Les,

 

This is the piece I am talking about:

 

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/3094088.jpg

 

Clearly not the Ox sensor mileage reminder as found on US Vanagons.;-)

 

 

BenT



On Dec 29, 2010, at 11:03 PM, "Les Harris" <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

Greg,

That sounds like a counter that prompts the driver to have the O2 sensor checked or replaced.  True?

Les

>
Also forgot to add that after working on many different vehicles over the years it is normal to have an interchangable drive cog on the speedo drive to suit the gearing/final drive and wheel/tyre choice. Usuallly they are formed in different coloured plastic. Since we are talking about output/pinion shaft speed relative to road speed one would think there must be at least a few different cogs, or did VW go the expensive way and do all that individulisation in the speedo head?Greg E
--- On Thu, 30/12/10, Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

From: Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Instrument Cluster
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Received: Thursday, 30 December, 2010, 6:43 PM

 

Ben,

I will have to open it up again and look to see if it is the same nylon gear.  I will get a pic of it.

The reference to the O2 sensor concerns the box in the middle of one of the drive cables.  The ETKA illustration shows an electrical socket on the box, which suggests that it is sending information somewhere.

Les


From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of BenT Syncro
Sent: 30 December 2010 18:37
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Instrument Cluster

 

 

Les,

 

This is the piece I am talking about:

 

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/3094088.jpg

 

Clearly not the Ox sensor mileage reminder as found on US Vanagons.;-)

 

 

BenT



On Dec 29, 2010, at 11:03 PM, "Les Harris" <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

Greg,

That sounds like a counter that prompts the driver to have the O2 sensor checked or replaced.  True?

Les


 

Ben, Greg,

It has all come together with these replies.

The drive gear (Ben’s picture) fitted to the front diff comes in eight different ratios and each ratio is matched to tyre sizes.   This answers the original question.  The Syncro speedo is the same as for all T3’s and the correct reading is achieved via the drive gear in the front diff being matched to the tyre size.

This further means that anyone who has fitted a larger wheel/tyre size can get a correct speedo reading by fitting the gear appropriate to the wheel/tyre size.

Les


From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of BenT Syncro
Sent: 30 December 2010 19:13
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Instrument Cluster

 

 

Les,

 

No need to dismantle your instrument cluster. This drive gear is attached to front differential. I am quite quite familiar with the NoOxBoxForOZ fact.

BenT



Of course the 2WD speedo is different as it is wheel driven.


> Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> Ben, Greg,
>
> It has all come together with these replies.
>
> The drive gear (Ben's picture) fitted to the front diff comes in eight
> different ratios and each ratio is matched to tyre sizes. This answers
> the
> original question. The Syncro speedo is the same as for all T3's and
> the
> correct reading is achieved via the drive gear in the front diff being
> matched to the tyre size.
>
> This further means that anyone who has fitted a larger wheel/tyre size
> can
> get a correct speedo reading by fitting the gear appropriate to the
> wheel/tyre size.
>
> Les
>
> _____
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of BenT Syncro
> Sent: 30 December 2010 19:13
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Instrument Cluster
>
>
>
>
>
> Les,
>
>
>
> No need to dismantle your instrument cluster. This drive gear is
> attached to
> front differential. I am quite quite familiar with the NoOxBoxForOZ
> fact.
>
>
>
> BenT

Phill,

No, and that was the point of what I was saying.  The actual speedo is the same. The 2WD drives from the front wheel and the Syncro drives from the front diff but the speedo, at least according to the ETKA listing, is the same.  In the Syncro, the range of tyre sizes is then taken care of by the individual appropriate gear.

Les


From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of plander@optusnet.com.au
Sent: 30 December 2010 20:12
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Instrument Cluster

 

 


Of course the 2WD speedo is different as it is wheel driven.