Looks like I'm going subaru... any advice for me?

1
Hi All,

There comes that time, when it appears my waterboxer is on it's last legs... I'm getting tired of spending $ on it, and it would seem more economical to put in a subaru motor then to get the waterboxer rebuilt / fix the next problem that arises.  Please don't hate me!

I'm doing all the reading and research that I can at the moment.  I have just purchased what I hope will be an excellent subaru donor vehicle (and paddock basher in the meantime).  My main questions I'm hoping people can give some advice on are (or point me to some good reading material);

1. What should I do to the van whilst the engine is out?  I've already found some checklists on all the seals / parts that should be replaced on the subaru motor, but what about the van itself?  I would prefer not to pull / reseal the fuel tank unless that was strongly advised, as that appears to be a painful exercise. 

2. Who should I get to help me do the conversion?  When it comes to it I was going to work with my favourite mechanic Ivan who has said he would be happy to help, but engine conversions is not necessarily his main business.  I've also found a guy in Newcastle who can do the wiring loom modifications.  However, is there a person experienced in this conversion, ideally near Sydney, that would be worth talking with?

3. Engineering requirements.  Three questions.  Unfortunately I think the engineer who approved all my campervan modifications (poptop, windows etc) has retired.  Any recommendations on an engineer I should approach who will be good to work with?  Will that engineer review what I already have been approved for - potentially un-approve things?  Will I need to do brake upgrades?

Finally there's a bunch of nice and / or new waterboxer parts I will have to sell once I make it to the other side of this process, including the running engine itself.  For example I don't think I will be using the NIB gowesty gear reduction starter that's sitting in my garage.  Final note I've got my stainless steel pipes in now so if anyone is interested in a used gowesty coolant pipe fix kit get in touch.

Thanks! Sam
2

Hi Sam,

HHhhhmmmmmmmmmm. Re: Advice for you?

Where do I start?  ................


NNNNNNNNoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!


Hope this helps.

Cheers.

Ken


From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of me@samarnold.org [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2016 9:24 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Looks like I'm going subaru... any advice for me?
 
 

Hi All,

There comes that time, when it appears my waterboxer is on it's last legs... I'm getting tired of spending $ on it, and it would seem more economical to put in a subaru motor then to get the waterboxer rebuilt / fix the next problem that arises.  Please don't hate me!

I'm doing all the reading and research that I can at the moment.  I have just purchased what I hope will be an excellent subaru donor vehicle (and paddock basher in the meantime).  My main questions I'm hoping people can give some advice on are (or point me to some good reading material);

1. What should I do to the van whilst the engine is out?  I've already found some checklists on all the seals / parts that should be replaced on the subaru motor, but what about the van itself?  I would prefer not to pull / reseal the fuel tank unless that was strongly advised, as that appears to be a painful exercise. 

2. Who should I get to help me do the conversion?  When it comes to it I was going to work with my favourite mechanic Ivan who has said he would be happy to help, but engine conversions is not necessarily his main business.  I've also found a guy in Newcastle who can do the wiring loom modifications.  However, is there a person experienced in this conversion, ideally near Sydney, that would be worth talking with?

3. Engineering requirements.  Three questions.  Unfortunately I think the engineer who approved all my campervan modifications (poptop, windows etc) has retired.  Any recommendations on an engineer I should approach who will be good to work with?  Will that engineer review what I already have been approved for - potentially un-approve things?  Will I need to do brake upgrades?

Finally there's a bunch of nice and / or new waterboxer parts I will have to sell once I make it to the other side of this process, including the running engine itself.  For example I don't think I will be using the NIB gowesty gear reduction starter that's sitting in my garage.  Final note I've got my stainless steel pipes in now so if anyone is interested in a used gowesty coolant pipe fix kit get in touch.

Thanks! Sam

3
Thanks Ken for those words of wisdom, answers all of my questions really :)  I just want to be able to jump in my van and not be worried if I will actually make it to my destination!  Driving up hills will be a nice perk though.
4
I'm about to embark on a Zetec install for the same reason.


On 15 Dec. 2016, at 10:26 pm, me@samarnold.org [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thanks Ken for those words of wisdom, answers all of my questions really :)  I just want to be able to jump in my van and not be worried if I will actually make it to my destination!  Driving up hills will be a nice perk though.


5
Hey Sam,

I can totally understand your thoughts and to be honest, I would do the same. 
Not that I don't like the Boxer, but sometimes they can be really annoying. Also having a little bit more power makes it more pleasant to drive.
Those are reasons why I converted mine back home to TDI. But those days I may lean more towards the Subaru EJ25.

Unfortunately I can't help you with tips nor with hands on on the conversion. 

I may be interest in the stainless steel water pipes kit ones it is available. Just pick up my Syncro tomorrow and than big (or smaller) improvements will start, so looking for parts atm. :)

Cheers Arne



Am 16.12.2016 um 01:31 schrieb Peter Kolevas peter.kolevas@gmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>:

 

I'm about to embark on a Zetec install for the same reason.



On 15 Dec. 2016, at 10:26 pm, me@samarnold.org [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Thanks Ken for those words of wisdom, answers all of my questions really :)  I just want to be able to jump in my van and not be worried if I will actually make it to my destination!  Driving up hills will be a nice perk though.


6
Why are you selling the stainless pipes? You will still need pipes for the Subaru. The only reason that I would go Subaru would be for more power as I don't see the wbx as unreliable, just bad mechanics.

You need to contact Ben Croft as he did the conversion properly and he lives close to you. Be ready for gearbox repairs.
7
Thanks Phill.  Not selling the stainless steel pipes, I'm selling a used gowesty plastic pipe fix kit if anyone wants it.  Will try to contact Ben. 
8
Hi Sam,

I've done about 25000 km on a 2.5 Subi now. All I can say is the Van is now how it should have been out of the factory. Torque, economy, smooth idle. No downside other than it's not original.
That didn't worry me as I intend to keep the Syncro for a long time.

Gearbox will I think only be an issue if you don't take care in the way you drive. I find the Subi motor actually easier on changes as you can rev it out more, giving a better speed for changing esp. between 1st / 2nd.
Try and get 550km on a tank with a wbx motor.
I used all Small car parts. Can't fault them so far.

Good luck with it.

Mark
9
Can't help with a lot of your questions as Queensland has different requirements, but the 2 EJ25 conversions I have done I opted for the BMW brake booster. Check on Aussieveedubbers for conversion threads.

Brent
10
Thanks everyone for comments and suggestions. 

Arne did you want the used plastic pipe gowesty fix kit?  I'll be honest and say in my opinion if you can afford it go straight to the stainless pipes.

Mark awesome to hear it's a good engine in the syncro.  I'm hoping to do the conversion right to get the reliability.  At the moment I'm leaning towards the RJES bell housing and input shaft so I can run subaru clutch, and maybe Rocky Mountain Westy for some other bits.  I should write an email to RJES and start the conversation.

Brent thanks for comment I'm hoping to avoid touching the brakes unless I have to, the brakes do pretty good stopping the van as it is.  Only time I've ever experienced brake fade is when towing a car trailer down a very steep hill.

Do please suggest any advice on my original questions if you can.  That is;

1. what to do on van whilst engine out?
2. any recommended experienced mechanic in Sydney to approach regards conversion?
3. engineer suggestions / likely engineering requirements?

Cheers, Sam
11
I am pretty sure that an engineer will require a brake upgrade.
12
So I've seen an engineer now and have some new questions!  You're on the money Phill, the engineer does want me to install bigger front brakes.  He seems like a good bloke.  He also has a few other requests for me, so;

1. Engineer wants official VW literature to refer to.  Can anyone advise where I can get a scan of official VW literature that states the disc brake dimensions, pad size, piston size for our brakes?  Also on gross axle weights, wheel track / standard rim ET.  Has to be for our Australian vans if possible.  Can't find it in the Bentley so far.

2. Big front brakes.  Engineer says the bigger the better, ideally not influencing brake bias too badly.  So I'm leaning towards the Gowesty Bigger Brakes GoWesty Bigger Brakes | GoWesty

 

  Any one used these?  Any brake related commentary for me?  I've read the samba thread and am slightly worried that occasionally they seem to have hot spots on the rotors.  I initially wanted to go for the SA brakes, but the engineer wants the biggest possible, commenting that I should be able to fit 300mm+ rotors under my 16 inch wheels.

3. Child seat anchor points.  Do you know is there any precedence in our vans for mounting seat belts like this gowesty tether kit does, up on the roof between the d pillars?  http://www.gowesty.com/product-details.php?id=4246

Thanks for helping on the journey everyone, hoping I'm not biting off more than I can chew (or afford!)

Sam
13

Sam,

 

Bentleys is the official VAG source of specifications for the Syncro.  There are other VAG publications but most are hard to find now.  The Syncro was originally built to meet the ADR requirements at the time of manufacture.  They came off the boat and onto the showroom floor.

 

They didn’t have child restraint anchorage points and these manufactured locally to any design approved by a certifying engineer.

 

His insistence on the biggest possible brakes is a bit of a cop-out because it assumes that bigger is better, which is not necessarily the case.  Apart from end performance, serviceability and quality of parts are equally important.

 

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ]
Sent: 21 December 2016 13:17
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Looks like I'm going subaru... any advice for me?

So I've seen an engineer now and have some new questions!  You're on the money Phill, the engineer does want me to install bigger front brakes.  He seems like a good bloke.  He also has a few other requests for me, so;

1. Engineer wants official VW literature to refer to.  Can anyone advise where I can get a scan of official VW literature that states the disc brake dimensions, pad size, piston size for our brakes?  Also on gross axle weights, wheel track / standard rim ET.  Has to be for our Australian vans if possible.  Can't find it in the Bentley so far.

2. Big front brakes.  Engineer says the bigger the better, ideally not influencing brake bias too badly.  So I'm leaning towards the Gowesty Bigger Brakes GoWesty Bigger Brakes | GoWesty

 

 

image

 

GoWesty Bigger Brakes | GoWesty

We are extremely pleased to offer the GoWesty BIGGER Brake system for your 1980-91 Vanagon. 

 

Preview by Yahoo

 

 

  Any one used these?  Any brake related commentary for me?  I've read the samba thread and am slightly worried that occasionally they seem to have hot spots on the rotors.  I initially wanted to go for the SA brakes, but the engineer wants the biggest possible, commenting that I should be able to fit 300mm+ rotors under my 16 inch wheels.

3. Child seat anchor points.  Do you know is there any precedence in our vans for mounting seat belts like this gowesty tether kit does, up on the roof between the d pillars?  http://www.gowesty.com/product-details.php?id=4246

Thanks for helping on the journey everyone, hoping I'm not biting off more than I can chew (or afford!)

Sam

14
The child seat anchorage points are built into the body just in front of the engine hatch, you can tell this because they have an imperial thread. They will be present in all vehicles apart from the Telstra spec syncros. They can be a pain in this position as they reduce storage/luggage space behind the seat. 

Mounting high up at the "D"pillar does open up the area and I would say gives a better angle.

Brent
15

Les,

 

Good to hear from you again.

 

Theo

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 21 December 2016 3:14 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Looks like I'm going subaru... any advice for me?

 

 

Sam,

 

Bentleys is the official VAG source of specifications for the Syncro.  There are other VAG publications but most are hard to find now.  The Syncro was originally built to meet the ADR requirements at the time of manufacture.  They came off the boat and onto the showroom floor.

 

They didn’t have child restraint anchorage points and these manufactured locally to any design approved by a certifying engineer.

 

His insistence on the biggest possible brakes is a bit of a cop-out because it assumes that bigger is better, which is not necessarily the case.  Apart from end performance, serviceability and quality of parts are equally important.

 

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 21 December 2016 13:17
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Looks like I'm going subaru... any advice for me?

So I've seen an engineer now and have some new questions!  You're on the money Phill, the engineer does want me to install bigger front brakes.  He seems like a good bloke.  He also has a few other requests for me, so;

1. Engineer wants official VW literature to refer to.  Can anyone advise where I can get a scan of official VW literature that states the disc brake dimensions, pad size, piston size for our brakes?  Also on gross axle weights, wheel track / standard rim ET.  Has to be for our Australian vans if possible.  Can't find it in the Bentley so far.

2. Big front brakes.  Engineer says the bigger the better, ideally not influencing brake bias too badly.  So I'm leaning towards the Gowesty Bigger Brakes GoWesty Bigger Brakes | GoWesty

 

 

image

 

GoWesty Bigger Brakes | GoWesty

We are extremely pleased to offer the GoWesty BIGGER Brake system for your 1980-91 Vanagon. 

 

Preview by Yahoo

 

 

  Any one used these?  Any brake related commentary for me?  I've read the samba thread and am slightly worried that occasionally they seem to have hot spots on the rotors.  I initially wanted to go for the SA brakes, but the engineer wants the biggest possible, commenting that I should be able to fit 300mm+ rotors under my 16 inch wheels.

3. Child seat anchor points.  Do you know is there any precedence in our vans for mounting seat belts like this gowesty tether kit does, up on the roof between the d pillars?  http://www.gowesty.com/product-details.php?id=4246

Thanks for helping on the journey everyone, hoping I'm not biting off more than I can chew (or afford!)

Sam

16
In '07 my '89 syncro was a little tired after 16yrs of work, I asked my mechanic Ben Durie what could be done to get it to move. He did mention a Subaru engine, after 2 seconds of serious  thought I opted for  a 2.4 WBX .
Best decision I made, original standard brakes with BMW booster worked absolutely fine plus syncro remained VW. After approximately 60,000km was still going strong. 
Paul. 


Sent from my Samsung GALAXY S5 on the Telstra mobile network


-------- Original message --------
From: "manxdune@yahoo.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia]" <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Date:21/12/2016 4:51 PM (GMT+10:00)
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Looks like I'm going subaru... any advice for me?

 

The child seat anchorage points are built into the body just in front of the engine hatch, you can tell this because they have an imperial thread. They will be present in all vehicles apart from the Telstra spec syncros. They can be a pain in this position as they reduce storage/luggage space behind the seat. 


Mounting high up at the "D"pillar does open up the area and I would say gives a better angle.

Brent

17
I agree with Les, bigger is not necessarily better.

We fitted Oettinger 4 wheel discs to the Bergmeister, our 3.6 Porsche powered 2WD, and they are brilliant.
But it was necessary to fit a balance valve between front and back to avoid premature front end lockup.

Unfortunately you cannot fit stock VW wheels over Oettingers, so we had to get new wheels that fitted the centres, 
with correct offsets and cleared the brakes.

Hope this helps,
Peter




On 21 Dec 2016, at 3:13 PM, 'Leslie Harris' leslieharris@optusnet.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Sam,
 
Bentleys is the official VAG source of specifications for the Syncro.  There are other VAG publications but most are hard to find now.  The Syncro was originally built to meet the ADR requirements at the time of manufacture.  They came off the boat and onto the showroom floor.
 
They didn’t have child restraint anchorage points and these manufactured locally to any design approved by a certifying engineer.
 
His insistence on the biggest possible brakes is a bit of a cop-out because it assumes that bigger is better, which is not necessarily the case.  Apart from end performance, serviceability and quality of parts are equally important.
 
Les
 
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] 
Sent: 21 December 2016 13:17
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Looks like I'm going subaru... any advice for me?

So I've seen an engineer now and have some new questions!  You're on the money Phill, the engineer does want me to install bigger front brakes.  He seems like a good bloke.  He also has a few other requests for me, so;

1. Engineer wants official VW literature to refer to.  Can anyone advise where I can get a scan of official VW literature that states the disc brake dimensions, pad size, piston size for our brakes?  Also on gross axle weights, wheel track / standard rim ET.  Has to be for our Australian vans if possible.  Can't find it in the Bentley so far.

2. Big front brakes.  Engineer says the bigger the better, ideally not influencing brake bias too badly.  So I'm leaning towards the Gowesty Bigger Brakes GoWesty Bigger Brakes | GoWesty

 

 

image

 

GoWesty Bigger Brakes | GoWesty
We are extremely pleased to offer the GoWesty BIGGER Brake system for your 1980-91 Vanagon.  
 
View on www.gowesty.com
Preview by Yahoo 
 

 

  Any one used these?  Any brake related commentary for me?  I've read the samba thread and am slightly worried that occasionally they seem to have hot spots on the rotors.  I initially wanted to go for the SA brakes, but the engineer wants the biggest possible, commenting that I should be able to fit 300mm+ rotors under my 16 inch wheels.

3. Child seat anchor points.  Do you know is there any precedence in our vans for mounting seat belts like this gowesty tether kit does, up on the roof between the d pillars?  http://www.gowesty.com/product-details.php?id=4246

Thanks for helping on the journey everyone, hoping I'm not biting off more than I can chew (or afford!)

Sam



18
Nice to hear from you Les. Brent, child anchor points were introduced around 1990 when that ADR came out. Early vans don't have them. The Gowesty "drill through the rain channel" option is seriously lacking. I would replicate the factory set up. If you use identical materials and methods no engineer can argue to its validity. Sometimes those Ozzie made bars come up on eBay but they are cumbersome and involve damage to an obvious area of the interior. Gregor


From: "manxdune@yahoo.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia]" <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 21 December 2016, 16:51
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Looks like I'm going subaru... any advice for me?

 
The child seat anchorage points are built into the body just in front of the engine hatch, you can tell this because they have an imperial thread. They will be present in all vehicles apart from the Telstra spec syncros. They can be a pain in this position as they reduce storage/luggage space behind the seat. 

Mounting high up at the "D"pillar does open up the area and I would say gives a better angle.

Brent


19
I've used the Audi based twin pot conversion from Small Car on a standard booster for 10 years.
Very good brakes that balance well with the back drums. Fits Merc 15" rims no problem.
Just had them machined and sourced new pads locally.

Home :: Vanagon :: Wheel, Tire, Brake & Suspension Upgrades :: Vanagon Syncro 11" dual piston front disc brake upgrade

 



Mark
20
Why not use the engineer that Ben used?

The SA brakes were designed for a van and used with a similar sized 5 cylinder engine to the Subaru. I really don;t think that your engineer has a clue what he is talking about.