NSW Rip Off

1
I have just dicovered that to transfer my Rego from Vic to NSW, not only do I need a vehicle inspection (known as a "blue slip" here) I have to get an Engineers Certificate as the vehicle has been modified. All attempts to avoid this have bene fruitless. Will ost $650, just for the certificate without the other costs and stamp duty. It has been driving around Australia since 1989 and now I am told it has to have one of these certificates in NSW. Am I annoyed. You bet!!!! My printer will be running hot with letters to Politicians, not that this will get me anywhere!!!!

Does this happen in every State? Supports my view that our Federation is actually holding the country back. Much simpler in NZ. Even Germany with 11 States has the one system for processes like this.

Very frustrated, Peter
2

Peter,

What exactly is the modification involved? 

An engineer’s certificate is required only if the vehicle has been changed from its original specification in such a way as to affect ADR compliance or if there are structural modifications.

Les

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of anni43elli
Sent: 10 May 2010 13:14
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] NSW Rip Off

I have just dicovered that to transfer my Rego from Vic to NSW, not only do I need a vehicle inspection (known as a "blue slip" here) I have to get an Engineers Certificate as the vehicle has been modified. All attempts to avoid this have bene fruitless. Will ost $650, just for the certificate without the other costs and stamp duty. It has been driving around Australia since 1989 and now I am told it has to have one of these certificates in NSW. Am I annoyed. You bet!!!! My printer will be running hot with letters to Politicians, not that this will get me anywhere!!!!

Does this happen in every State? Supports my view that our Federation is actually holding the country back. Much simpler in NZ. Even Germany with 11 States has the one system for processes like this.

Very frustrated, Peter

3
Peter,
It's not too long ago we talked about this here and I warned prospective interstate buyers about these very expensive add-on cost impositions.
 
For example, a recently purchased syncro I think from Cairns was transferred interstate and at last count, reported here that the all up add-on costs for purchasing interstate including government charges, bureaucratic imposed modifications and private travel to and from etc etc amounted to in excess of $4000 on top of the buying price!!!!
 
As an afterthought also, speaking with a local tyre retailer recently, he mentioned that even changing wheel rim and tyre sizes (as many of us have done) means these, if properly checked, would fail compliance. Back to 14" rims guys! If so, then there are a hell of a lot of syncros driving around Australia for the past 20 yeras with non-compliant wheels and tyres. Meaning I don't want a blue slip check anytime soon with an over zeolous bureacrat doing the checking ok ... haha
 
Sounds like you're getting off cheap then Peter :-)
 
Peter, while your chewing up your favourite politician, please ask him why there aren't no claim bonuses on greenslip insurance please. Ta.
 
Cheers.
Ken

 
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: peter@coeconsult.com.au
Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 03:13:50 +0000
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] NSW Rip Off

 
I have just dicovered that to transfer my Rego from Vic to NSW, not only do I need a vehicle inspection (known as a "blue slip" here) I have to get an Engineers Certificate as the vehicle has been modified. All attempts to avoid this have bene fruitless. Will ost $650, just for the certificate without the other costs and stamp duty. It has been driving around Australia since 1989 and now I am told it has to have one of these certificates in NSW. Am I annoyed. You bet!!!! My printer will be running hot with letters to Politicians, not that this will get me anywhere!!!!

Does this happen in every State? Supports my view that our Federation is actually holding the country back. Much simpler in NZ. Even Germany with 11 States has the one system for processes like this.

Very frustrated, Peter



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4
> As an afterthought also, speaking with a local tyre retailer recently,
> he mentioned that even changing wheel rim and tyre sizes (as many of us
> have done) means these, if properly checked, would fail compliance. Back
> to 14" rims guys! If so, then there are a hell of a lot of syncros
> driving around Australia for the past 20 yeras with non-compliant wheels
> and tyres. Meaning I don't want a blue slip check anytime soon with an
> over zeolous bureacrat doing the checking ok ... haha
>

Ken, that is a load of garbage. You are allowed to change rims within reason. The problem is that mechanics have no idea what they are doing and just make it up as it goes.

This is why the government puts information on the web of this sort of thing.

I don't know how many idiots have told me that a transporter requires light truck tyres!
5
I would say this would be the camper conversion causing this compliance problem as I had a ex-work mate have the same trouble with an old Bay window he bought from QLD.
 
He managed to find paperwork that showed the vehicle was actually converted in NSW before going to QLD later in its life and managed to then avoid this problem.
 
If it was converted here you may be able to track the paperwork down.
 
There are not many engineers approved to do this in NSW (apparently only 7 left I was told).
 
Good luck with this though - it will be worth it in the end.
 
Cheers,
 
Scott
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Les Harris
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 1:23 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] NSW Rip Off

 

Peter,

What exactly is the modification involved? 

An engineer’s certificate is required only if the vehicle has been changed from its original specification in such a way as to affect ADR compliance or if there are structural modifications.

Les

From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of anni43elli
Sent: 10 May 2010 13:14
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] NSW Rip Off

I have just dicovered that to transfer my Rego from Vic to NSW, not only do I need a vehicle inspection (known as a "blue slip" here) I have to get an Engineers Certificate as the vehicle has been modified. All attempts to avoid this have bene fruitless. Will ost $650, just for the certificate without the other costs and stamp duty. It has been driving around Australia since 1989 and now I am told it has to have one of these certificates in NSW. Am I annoyed. You bet!!!! My printer will be running hot with letters to Politicians, not that this will get me anywhere!!!!

Does this happen in every State? Supports my view that our Federation is actually holding the country back. Much simpler in NZ. Even Germany with 11 States has the one system for processes like this.

Very frustrated, Peter

6
Hi Peter,
I purchased my Trakka Syncro Camper from NSW 2 years ago now and all i needed to do here in Victoria was to get a Road Worthy Certificate inorder to transfer the vehicle in my name.There were no issues  with the transfer as the vehicle was registered from day one in 1992 as a Trakka Campervan by the original owner from whom i bought it.Check if your vehicle was registered in Victoria as a Campervan.If so then i believe there should be no such issues as having to get Engineers Certificates etc as the vehicle if registered as a Campervan would have gone through the inspection by the original owner back in 1989.Hope this helps.As for the issue with "Wheels" and the respectiove sizes thereof,again mine has the Trakka fitted CSA 6 x 15 inch wheels and there was no issues with registering the vehicle here with the 15 inch wheels.I guess Mechanics in NSW must think they are God's gift to the Motoring world and make up their own rules as they see fit.I sincerely hope you overcome the issue without too much expense and Anxiety.Is your 2 wd still for sale.If so what are you expecting for it and could you give me some details of the Camper.Is it an Auto,what is the mileage,how long have you had it and how many prior owners etc.
Cheers,
Everard 

--- On Mon, 10/5/10, anni43elli <peter@coeconsult.com.au> wrote:

From: anni43elli <peter@coeconsult.com.au>
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] NSW Rip Off
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Received: Monday, 10 May, 2010, 3:13 AM

 
I have just dicovered that to transfer my Rego from Vic to NSW, not only do I need a vehicle inspection (known as a "blue slip" here) I have to get an Engineers Certificate as the vehicle has been modified. All attempts to avoid this have bene fruitless. Will ost $650, just for the certificate without the other costs and stamp duty. It has been driving around Australia since 1989 and now I am told it has to have one of these certificates in NSW. Am I annoyed. You bet!!!! My printer will be running hot with letters to Politicians, not that this will get me anywhere!!!!

Does this happen in every State? Supports my view that our Federation is actually holding the country back. Much simpler in NZ. Even Germany with 11 States has the one system for processes like this.

Very frustrated, Peter


 
7
I guess Mechanics in NSW must think they are God's gift to the
> Motoring world and make up their own rules as they see fit.

That sums it up nicely.

If it was converted in 19XX by an approved converter then it does not need to be checked by an engineer.
8

May I suggest that we wait to hear what the “modification” actually is before we spray speculation all over the place?

Les

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of anni43elli
Sent: 10 May 2010 13:14
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] NSW Rip Off 

I have just dicovered that to transfer my Rego from Vic to NSW, not only do I need a vehicle inspection (known as a "blue slip" here) I have to get an Engineers Certificate as the vehicle has been modified. All attempts to avoid this have bene fruitless. Will ost $650, just for the certificate without the other costs and stamp duty. It has been driving around Australia since 1989 and now I am told it has to have one of these certificates in NSW. Am I annoyed. You bet!!!! My printer will be running hot with letters to Politicians, not that this will get me anywhere!!!!

Does this happen in every State? Supports my view that our Federation is actually holding the country back. Much simpler in NZ. Even Germany with 11 States has the one system for processes like this.

Very frustrated, Peter

9

Hi Les. The mod is converting a transporter to a campervan, primarily as I understand, putting on a pop top roof. It was done by Suncamper in Balgowla in Sydney in 1988 or 1989. The security check I did in Vic prior to purchase says it was first registered in 1989. What I don’t know is whether it was registered in NSW first. The Suncamper business was sold in 1989. It is still operating and the guy who bought it then  still owns it. He is overseas and back tomorrow so I will call him then.

 

The problem will be I suspect, getting any paperwork from Suncamper  that may have been transferred by the previous owners. I remain hopeful.

 

Regards, Peter

 

10

Thank you Scott. Will update the group on progress.

 

Peter

 

11

Thanks Everard, The problem is that even if it had a certificate from Victoria, NSW would not accept it. Going the other way Vicroads would accept a certificate from NSW. Here, my information is that they always require a new one done in NSW. Amazing!!!! The Vic rego papers have it registered as a 1989 Volks Carvn, so I am hopeful when I get into the detail it may make a difference. We shall see.

 

Re my T3 Trakka. I have a full list of owners (5) and all repair and service receipts since 1994 including an engine rebuild at 197,000 km. I am asking $14,950. If you look on the website RVPoint.com there photos and a full description. It is a great unit in my view. Please contact me direct if you would like to hear more about it.

 

Regards, Peter

 

12
Is there a sticker under the dash/steering column or somewhere else with an approval number?

What was it registered in Vic as?



> Peter Coe <peter@coeconsult.com.au> wrote:
>
> Hi Les. The mod is converting a transporter to a campervan, primarily as
> I
> understand, putting on a pop top roof. It was done by Suncamper in
> Balgowla
> in Sydney in 1988 or 1989. The security check I did in Vic prior to
> purchase
> says it was first registered in 1989. What I don't know is whether it
> was
> registered in NSW first. The Suncamper business was sold in 1989. It is
> still operating and the guy who bought it then still owns it. He is
> overseas and back tomorrow so I will call him then.
>
> The problem will be I suspect, getting any paperwork from Suncamper
> that
> may have been transferred by the previous owners. I remain hopeful.
>
> Regards, Peter
>
13
The Vic rego papers have it registered
> as a 1989 Volks Carvn, so I am hopeful when I get into the detail it may make
> a difference.

Try another blue slip man or contact the RTA.

Engineers certificates can only be supplied by NSW RTA authorised engineers.

Phill
14

First registered in Vic on 1 March 1989. Papers say “1989 Volks Carvn”. One could assume it was probably first registered in Vic as a modified vehicle.

 

Regards, Peter

 

 

 

15
Well I would say then it's not a modified vehicle.



> Peter Coe <peter@coeconsult.com.au> wrote:
>
> First registered in Vic on 1 March 1989. Papers say "1989 Volks Carvn".
> One
> could assume it was probably first registered in Vic as a modified
> vehicle.
>
> Regards, Peter
>
>
>
16

Thanks Phil. I will be onto this line of argument tomorrow.

 

Peter

 

17

Peter,

If it has once been legally registered as a campervan, it is implicit that the camping conversion was approved.

If it was not an approved conversion, it cannot have been legally registered.

It is an approved conversion by virtue of the fact that it has already been registered as such.

No registration body can now turn round and say that it is not approved. 

No registration body can try to shift the onus back on you to show that it is an approved conversion. 

QED

Les

__

18

Thanks Les. I will run this argument, particularly as the conversion was actually done here in NSW by Suncamper and must have been accepted in Victoria.

 

Peter

 

19

Peter,

There is a reciprocity between states.  A conversion that is approved in one state will get automatic acceptance in other states. 

This is not open to argument.  Either it is an approved conversion or it isn’t.  It has either been first registered with the conversion or it hasn’t. You have the paperwork to show that it has.  The onus is on the registration inspection mechanic to show that it is NOT approved; the onus is not on you to show that it IS approved; the original registration papers show that it is. 

If the inspector does not understand this, it is up to the NSW registration authorities to explain it to him.  At the same time, they would be well advised to examine his level of understanding of what he is supposed to be doing.

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Peter Coe
Sent: 10 May 2010 17:40
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] NSW Rip Off

Thanks Les. I will run this argument, particularly as the conversion was actually done here in NSW by Suncamper and must have been accepted in Victoria .

Peter

  _._,_.___

.

20
Now Les he is dealing with the NSW RTA!

I had dealings last year with the RTA as I wanted to concrete a footpath crossover for my driveway.

First of all I had to pay $400 to my local council so that they could give me a set of generic plans and some misinformation. The phone numbers on the council plans for my RTA contacts did not exist so it took a few weeks to find who to contact as the numbers are top secret and not in the government phone book. After a few months the RTA sent me a list of demands.

I must pay the RTA $852.50 fees with an extra $400 if I concrete on a weekent.

I then pay a $3000 bond for 12 months and if there is no damage to my work then I can apply to get that refunded. (Big chance)

I have to supply a traffic management plan prepared by a qualified designer.

I then have to apply for road occupancy approval,

Public liability insurance is required for 12 months for the amount of $20,000,000. I bet that's not cheap!

They may also require me to have a qualified traffic control person at $1800 just for one. I could need more!

This is the same department that had people stuck in their cars for up to 12 hours on the F3 motorway a few weeks ago because they are too stupid to make a decision!

It just shows what a waste of space NSW universities are.

End of rant.

Phill



> Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> Peter,
>
> If it has once been legally registered as a campervan, it is implicit
> that
> the camping conversion was approved.
>
> If it was not an approved conversion, it cannot have been legally
> registered.
>
> It is an approved conversion by virtue of the fact that it has already
> been
> registered as such.
>
> No registration body can now turn round and say that it is not approved.
>
>
> No registration body can try to shift the onus back on you to show that
> it
> is an approved conversion.
>
> QED
>
> Les
>
> __