PICS of Vanagon factory AC bracket

81
G'day Ken
                It's a great job that you're doing and it will be a service to everyone. Give yourself a pat on th back. My only gripe is, why didn't you do it earlier? - it could have saved me five or six hundred bucks!

  I've still got most of the new hoses sitting in a box in the shed - except those already fitted to the new motor which is sitting on the engine stand. As soon as I get a chance I'll provide I.D. measurements for you, and check them against the O.D. of the fittings they attach to.

  I couldn't see a reference number or description allocated to N 901 976 01, RHS cyl head < > perimeter plastic pipe.

  I have only found substitutes for the above hose, plus #26 & #65. I'll send you the details.

  Would it be helpful if I measured the overall length of each hose?

  I think I mentioned on a previous post that Gates make a range of rubber sleeves designed to slip inside the end of a hose to make it fit a smaller diameter pipe. This would be usueful for adapting a universal hose fit applications that require different sized ends, such as #2, #3, #15, #16, #17A & #38. With these, it would be practical to carry lengths of universal hose to cover multiple repairs. Straight lengths of hose are much easier to store in an expedition vehicle, and take up less space.

  I looked at the Gates website but couldn't find the dimensions. I'll check it out at the radiator shop. I'll be down there again soon to order the stainless steel pipe.

  By the way, I'm tempted to open a whole new can of worms by throwing silicone hoses into the ring for discussion. So far my preliminary research is that there is silicone, and silicone - some of the cheaper hoses are not up to scratch.

  The same could be said for rubber hoses. I would think twice about using anything less than the best quality branded hose, especially in high-temp situations.

  Has anyone got feedback on the merits of factory spring-loaded hose clamps versus screw clamps? I had a good quality screw clamp fail recently. Maybe I did it up too tight. I've taken to doubling them up where there is room. Paranoid.

  What about using a lubricant such as vaseline when fitting tight rubber hoses, as I have seen some people do? Factory-fitted hoses on some vehicles appear to be glued on with an adhesive that probably acts as a lubricant during assembly. Any thoughts?

  I haven't been able to get near the Syncro project lately as I'm trying to get my head around the Lucas fuel injection system in the old Range Rover, which now has long grass growing around it.

  Meanwhile the old kombi keeps on going, although I have to give it a good thrashing in second gear every time the tappets start rattling.

                                                                                                                                                                                                       Cheers, Roger {Beetle] Bayley

82
Phill,
ALL these hoses are problem ones, especially when the likes of Mackay advise replacing ALL hoses whenever the coolant is due for a full change, say every 2-3 years. Now that would be pretty novel to most syncros eh.
 
I think what hoses get prioritised is something I can consider further down the track. Bottom line is, when stuck anywhere away from home, any of these 18 listed hoses in a real life situation can be a problem.
 
So at this stage, unless you have ideas of plunging in at the deep end with me on this exploration project, then all I'm seeking at this stage is ratification of end ID measurements for the listed 18 hoses from our Australia wide syncro membership. Imagine if 18 members ratified one different hose each ... too easy! I can move on to the next stage. Anyone please?
Cheers.
Ken 

 
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: plander@optusnet.com.au
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 08:58:02 +1100
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses

 
Ken,

How about you mark the part numbers of the syncro specific hoses in bold or colours etc. as the these are more the problem ones.

Phill

> Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail. com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Roger and ALL,
>
>
>
> Just an update concerning work-in-progress on rubber coolant hoses for
> the T3 syncro. My objective being to identify as many available
> substitutes as possible and sourced from Australia-wide auto parts
> retail outlets .. hopefully cheaper as well.
>
>
>
> I started out with a short list of much cheaper Dayco brand substitutes
> gleaned from the US syncro forum, hoping to build on that, only to
> discover Dayco don't sell coolant hoses in Australia. Back to the
> drawing board. I've yet to learn if the 2 major Australian suppliers of
> hoses ... Gates and Mackay, have equivalents. I might get lucky and
> uncover a cross reference chart.
>
>
>
> I'm presently at the stage where I need to have confirmed the internal
> diameters at each end of the 18 different hoses. Idea being I or anyone
> can then search for the exact diameter equivalents and/or secondly, some
> others at least as close as possible.
>
>
>
> To this end, I need your help please.
>
>
>
> Please find attached here a work-in-progress coolant hose chart. It's
> pretty much self explanatory. Essentially what I need is feedback from
> anyone who would measure the ends of new SPARE hoses they do have, then
> compare these findings with the hose end measurements I have marked on
> the chart in red. I need to be told if any of these marked dimensions
> are incorrect. Not as important but also feel free to supply the correct
> measurements of the ones with red question marks.
>
>
>
> Roger, I'm still waiting with baited breath the substitutes you have
> uncovered and written down somewhere with a knib dipped in dirty engine
> oil. Any luck so far or has your SS coolant pipes project got your
> attention sidetracked?
>
>
>
> As I said before, many hands make light work. If I can achieve something
> at all useful to the group with this, then being stuck anywhere around
> Oz with a busted coolant hose but equipped with an equivalents ready
> reckoner may then be not so daunting.
>
>
>
> Any glitches I've made, please advise ok. Thanks in advance. Cheers.
>
>
>
> Ken
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@. ..>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Roger,
> >
> > Yes I'd be interested to add to the list of known alternatives for 18
> different syncro coolant hoses, especially if they are cheaper. Not easy
> but as they say ... many hands make light work. Let me know what you
> have please, make and model.
> > Cheers.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> > From: Gullyraker@. ..
> > Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 07:31:01 +0000
> > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
> >
> >
> > You're idea of compiling a hose source list is a beauty. I've got a
> couple of other substitutes scrawled into the Bentley Bible, written
> with a broken fingernail dipped in oil ...
> > I'll let you know what they are.
> >
> > Cheers, Roger [Beetle] Bayley.
> >
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Search for properties that match your lifestyle! Start searching NOW!
> http://clk.atdmt. com/NMN/go/ 157631292/ direct/01/


Learn how Video chat with Windows Live Messenger
83
my thoughts on the clamps.
 
I usually toss all spring clamps. I think they are dangerous, ( as in can fly crazily sometimes ) and hard to deal with,
and I've seen them not squease hard enough to seal if there is corrosion under the hose where it goes on an aluminum hose nipple, typically. ( see below about that ) .
 
I use german hose clamps. they have a 6 mm hex head scew on them. I only tighten those with a quarter inch drive socket,
not a screwdriver !
they have nice curled up edges to they don't bite into the hose rubber.
I have seen just one, of hundreds I have installed, be faulty new.
 
there's another really good european screw hose clamp too. I find them on volvo cars. They have a 7 mm hex head screw on them, turned up edges, and are wider than the german ones mentioned above.  Those are really strong hose clamps !
 
if I need a lube, I use WD-40, makes rubber nice and slippery, but seems to dry out, like you'd want.
I would not use vaseline, as I would expect to always be slippery, not what you want.
 
Once in a while I will install a hose over a metal or plastic fitting with Peratex High Tack gasket sealant.
This is great stuff, stays tacky forever, never gets hard,  . prevents corrosion etc.
I put it on all water pump and thermostat screws etc.  - religeously...........corrosion on fasteners is a real problem on the vans I see, and I don't see people putting anti-seize on threds or sealant or anything ...bone dry and rusted all the time - and so easy to pervent too.
 
I 'make up' hose pieces for subaru engines in vanagons.
I have a freindly parts store that will let me go in the back and check out all their hoses on the wall.
Often I'll need 'this 90 degree tight bend' in 1 1/4 inch ID.  Or 1 1/2 ID.
those are common ID's.
 
weirdly .......
to VW's discredit in my opinion, they have a very bad habit of making a hose one size on one end, and  a different size  on the other, or a hose with a molded in big 'T' right in the middle...- that sort of thing.
which means you often need 'the part' .
I sure would design it so generic common hose would work in most parts of the van.
 
I don't know about you guy's versions of syncro's, but if you follow the heater hoses under the rear of a US model...
at least I am thinking......'what were they thinking ! ?" ..or not thinking.
they kinda go all over the place back there, including for a rear heater, if you guys have those in your syncro's.
 
anway....what fun synco's are !
Scott
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses

 

G'day Ken
                It's a great job that you're doing and it will be a service to everyone. Give yourself a pat on th back. My only gripe is, why didn't you do it earlier? - it could have saved me five or six hundred bucks!

  I've still got most of the new hoses sitting in a box in the shed - except those already fitted to the new motor which is sitting on the engine stand. As soon as I get a chance I'll provide I.D. measurements for you, and check them against the O.D. of the fittings they attach to.

  I couldn't see a reference number or description allocated to N 901 976 01, RHS cyl head < > perimeter plastic pipe.

  I have only found substitutes for the above hose, plus #26 & #65. I'll send you the details.

  Would it be helpful if I measured the overall length of each hose?

  I think I mentioned on a previous post that Gates make a range of rubber sleeves designed to slip inside the end of a hose to make it fit a smaller diameter pipe. This would be usueful for adapting a universal hose fit applications that require different sized ends, such as #2, #3, #15, #16, #17A & #38. With these, it would be practical to carry lengths of universal hose to cover multiple repairs. Straight lengths of hose are much easier to store in an expedition vehicle, and take up less space.

  I looked at the Gates website but couldn't find the dimensions. I'll check it out at the radiator shop. I'll be down there again soon to order the stainless steel pipe.

  By the way, I'm tempted to open a whole new can of worms by throwing silicone hoses into the ring for discussion. So far my preliminary research is that there is silicone, and silicone - some of the cheaper hoses are not up to scratch.

  The same could be said for rubber hoses. I would think twice about using anything less than the best quality branded hose, especially in high-temp situations.

  Has anyone got feedback on the merits of factory spring-loaded hose clamps versus screw clamps? I had a good quality screw clamp fail recently. Maybe I did it up too tight. I've taken to doubling them up where there is room. Paranoid.

  What about using a lubricant such as vaseline when fitting tight rubber hoses, as I have seen some people do? Factory-fitted hoses on some vehicles appear to be glued on with an adhesive that probably acts as a lubricant during assembly. Any thoughts?

  I haven't been able to get near the Syncro project lately as I'm trying to get my head around the Lucas fuel injection system in the old Range Rover, which now has long grass growing around it.

  Meanwhile the old kombi keeps on going, although I have to give it a good thrashing in second gear every time the tappets start rattling.

                                                                                                                                                                                                       Cheers, Roger {Beetle] Bayley

84
This forum is really getting depressing.

VWs are so crap that we need to replace the whole cooling system every three years. On the odd years we need to replace the engine and the even years we need to replace the gearbox.

Just maybe if we used the original parts and followed the instructions given to us by the VW engineers, things wouldn't fail so often.



> Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Phill,
>
> ALL these hoses are problem ones, especially when the likes of Mackay
> advise replacing ALL hoses whenever the coolant is due for a full
> change, say every 2-3 years. Now that would be pretty novel to most
> syncros eh.
>
>
>
> I think what hoses get prioritised is something I can consider further
> down the track. Bottom line is, when stuck anywhere away from home, any
> of these 18 listed hoses in a real life situation can be a problem.
>
>
>
> So at this stage, unless you have ideas of plunging in at the deep end
> with me on this exploration project, then all I'm seeking at this stage
> is ratification of end ID measurements for the listed 18 hoses from our
> Australia wide syncro membership. Imagine if 18 members ratified one
> different hose each ... too easy! I can move on to the next stage.
> Anyone please?
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: plander@optusnet.com.au
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 08:58:02 +1100
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
>
>
>
>
>
> Ken,
>
> How about you mark the part numbers of the syncro specific hoses in bold
> or colours etc. as the these are more the problem ones.
>
> Phill
>
> > Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Roger and ALL,
> >
> >
> >
> > Just an update concerning work-in-progress on rubber coolant hoses for
>
> > the T3 syncro. My objective being to identify as many available
> > substitutes as possible and sourced from Australia-wide auto parts
> > retail outlets .. hopefully cheaper as well.
> >
> >
> >
> > I started out with a short list of much cheaper Dayco brand
> substitutes
> > gleaned from the US syncro forum, hoping to build on that, only to
> > discover Dayco don't sell coolant hoses in Australia. Back to the
> > drawing board. I've yet to learn if the 2 major Australian suppliers
> of
> > hoses ... Gates and Mackay, have equivalents. I might get lucky and
> > uncover a cross reference chart.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm presently at the stage where I need to have confirmed the internal
>
> > diameters at each end of the 18 different hoses. Idea being I or
> anyone
> > can then search for the exact diameter equivalents and/or secondly,
> some
> > others at least as close as possible.
> >
> >
> >
> > To this end, I need your help please.
> >
> >
> >
> > Please find attached here a work-in-progress coolant hose chart. It's
> > pretty much self explanatory. Essentially what I need is feedback from
>
> > anyone who would measure the ends of new SPARE hoses they do have,
> then
> > compare these findings with the hose end measurements I have marked on
>
> > the chart in red. I need to be told if any of these marked dimensions
> > are incorrect. Not as important but also feel free to supply the
> correct
> > measurements of the ones with red question marks.
> >
> >
> >
> > Roger, I'm still waiting with baited breath the substitutes you have
> > uncovered and written down somewhere with a knib dipped in dirty
> engine
> > oil. Any luck so far or has your SS coolant pipes project got your
> > attention sidetracked?
> >
> >
> >
> > As I said before, many hands make light work. If I can achieve
> something
> > at all useful to the group with this, then being stuck anywhere around
>
> > Oz with a busted coolant hose but equipped with an equivalents ready
> > reckoner may then be not so daunting.
> >
> >
> >
> > Any glitches I've made, please advise ok. Thanks in advance. Cheers.
> >
> >
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt
> <unclekenz@...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Roger,
> > >
> > > Yes I'd be interested to add to the list of known alternatives for
> 18
> > different syncro coolant hoses, especially if they are cheaper. Not
> easy
> > but as they say ... many hands make light work. Let me know what you
> > have please, make and model.
> > > Cheers.
> > >
> > > Ken
> > >
> > >
> > > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > > From: Gullyraker@...
> > > Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 07:31:01 +0000
> > > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
> > >
> > >
> > > You're idea of compiling a hose source list is a beauty. I've got a
> > couple of other substitutes scrawled into the Bentley Bible, written
> > with a broken fingernail dipped in oil ...
> > > I'll let you know what they are.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Roger [Beetle] Bayley.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________________
> > Search for properties that match your lifestyle! Start searching NOW!
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Video chat with Windows Live Messenger Learn how
> http://windowslive.ninemsn.com.au/messenger/article/870686/video-chat-wit
> h-messenger
85
> my thoughts on the clamps.
>

Spring clamps give a constant pressue.

They are designed to give the correct torque. If you require more torque there is something wrong.

Vaseline may be bad for rubber. Use coolant if required.
86
I followed those instructions along with these- 950 kgs max payload , 2000kgs max braked trailer and 420,000 klms later I still have failures! What's wrong with this bus?

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
>
> This forum is really getting depressing.
>
> VWs are so crap that we need to replace the whole cooling system every three years. On the odd years we need to replace the engine and the even years we need to replace the gearbox.
>
> Just maybe if we used the original parts and followed the instructions given to us by the VW engineers, things wouldn't fail so often.
>
>
>
> > Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Phill,
> >
> > ALL these hoses are problem ones, especially when the likes of Mackay
> > advise replacing ALL hoses whenever the coolant is due for a full
> > change, say every 2-3 years. Now that would be pretty novel to most
> > syncros eh.
> >
> >
> >
> > I think what hoses get prioritised is something I can consider further
> > down the track. Bottom line is, when stuck anywhere away from home, any
> > of these 18 listed hoses in a real life situation can be a problem.
> >
> >
> >
> > So at this stage, unless you have ideas of plunging in at the deep end
> > with me on this exploration project, then all I'm seeking at this stage
> > is ratification of end ID measurements for the listed 18 hoses from our
> > Australia wide syncro membership. Imagine if 18 members ratified one
> > different hose each ... too easy! I can move on to the next stage.
> > Anyone please?
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > From: plander@...
> > Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 08:58:02 +1100
> > Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Ken,
> >
> > How about you mark the part numbers of the syncro specific hoses in bold
> > or colours etc. as the these are more the problem ones.
> >
> > Phill
> >
> > > Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Roger and ALL,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Just an update concerning work-in-progress on rubber coolant hoses for
> >
> > > the T3 syncro. My objective being to identify as many available
> > > substitutes as possible and sourced from Australia-wide auto parts
> > > retail outlets .. hopefully cheaper as well.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I started out with a short list of much cheaper Dayco brand
> > substitutes
> > > gleaned from the US syncro forum, hoping to build on that, only to
> > > discover Dayco don't sell coolant hoses in Australia. Back to the
> > > drawing board. I've yet to learn if the 2 major Australian suppliers
> > of
> > > hoses ... Gates and Mackay, have equivalents. I might get lucky and
> > > uncover a cross reference chart.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm presently at the stage where I need to have confirmed the internal
> >
> > > diameters at each end of the 18 different hoses. Idea being I or
> > anyone
> > > can then search for the exact diameter equivalents and/or secondly,
> > some
> > > others at least as close as possible.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To this end, I need your help please.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Please find attached here a work-in-progress coolant hose chart. It's
> > > pretty much self explanatory. Essentially what I need is feedback from
> >
> > > anyone who would measure the ends of new SPARE hoses they do have,
> > then
> > > compare these findings with the hose end measurements I have marked on
> >
> > > the chart in red. I need to be told if any of these marked dimensions
> > > are incorrect. Not as important but also feel free to supply the
> > correct
> > > measurements of the ones with red question marks.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Roger, I'm still waiting with baited breath the substitutes you have
> > > uncovered and written down somewhere with a knib dipped in dirty
> > engine
> > > oil. Any luck so far or has your SS coolant pipes project got your
> > > attention sidetracked?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As I said before, many hands make light work. If I can achieve
> > something
> > > at all useful to the group with this, then being stuck anywhere around
> >
> > > Oz with a busted coolant hose but equipped with an equivalents ready
> > > reckoner may then be not so daunting.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Any glitches I've made, please advise ok. Thanks in advance. Cheers.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ken
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt
> > <unclekenz@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Roger,
> > > >
> > > > Yes I'd be interested to add to the list of known alternatives for
> > 18
> > > different syncro coolant hoses, especially if they are cheaper. Not
> > easy
> > > but as they say ... many hands make light work. Let me know what you
> > > have please, make and model.
> > > > Cheers.
> > > >
> > > > Ken
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > > > From: Gullyraker@
> > > > Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 07:31:01 +0000
> > > > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You're idea of compiling a hose source list is a beauty. I've got a
> > > couple of other substitutes scrawled into the Bentley Bible, written
> > > with a broken fingernail dipped in oil ...
> > > > I'll let you know what they are.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers, Roger [Beetle] Bayley.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________________
> > > Search for properties that match your lifestyle! Start searching NOW!
> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Video chat with Windows Live Messenger Learn how
> > http://windowslive.ninemsn.com.au/messenger/article/870686/video-chat-wit
> > h-messenger
>
87
Phill,
Yeah. An analogy would be if Microsoft reduced their Windows operating system pricing to something approaching reasonable, especially when they try to foist a new one on us every other year or so, they'd eliminate a heck of a lot of software piracy overnight and still make a humungous fortune. Consumers would rush out to buy.
 
Users get driven away by high VAG parts pricing and indifference. Simple as that.
 
So what is your solution then when VAG makes syncro coolant hoses NLA? What are we then to do? My last count shows 3 hoses NLA. Good one VAG. Their engineers couldn't give a tinkers toss. Not unlike Trakka.
 
Ken
 

 
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: plander@optusnet.com.au
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 11:29:09 +1100
Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses

 
This forum is really getting depressing.

VWs are so crap that we need to replace the whole cooling system every three years. On the odd years we need to replace the engine and the even years we need to replace the gearbox.

Just maybe if we used the original parts and followed the instructions given to us by the VW engineers, things wouldn't fail so often.

> Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail. com> wrote:
>
>
> Phill,
>
> ALL these hoses are problem ones, especially when the likes of Mackay
> advise replacing ALL hoses whenever the coolant is due for a full
> change, say every 2-3 years. Now that would be pretty novel to most
> syncros eh.
>
>
>
> I think what hoses get prioritised is something I can consider further
> down the track. Bottom line is, when stuck anywhere away from home, any
> of these 18 listed hoses in a real life situation can be a problem.
>
>
>
> So at this stage, unless you have ideas of plunging in at the deep end
> with me on this exploration project, then all I'm seeking at this stage
> is ratification of end ID measurements for the listed 18 hoses from our
> Australia wide syncro membership. Imagine if 18 members ratified one
> different hose each ... too easy! I can move on to the next stage.
> Anyone please?
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> From: plander@optusnet. com.au
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 08:58:02 +1100
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
>
>
>
>
>
> Ken,
>
> How about you mark the part numbers of the syncro specific hoses in bold
> or colours etc. as the these are more the problem ones.
>
> Phill
>
> > Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail. com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Roger and ALL,
> >
> >
> >
> > Just an update concerning work-in-progress on rubber coolant hoses for
>
> > the T3 syncro. My objective being to identify as many available
> > substitutes as possible and sourced from Australia-wide auto parts
> > retail outlets .. hopefully cheaper as well.
> >
> >
> >
> > I started out with a short list of much cheaper Dayco brand
> substitutes
> > gleaned from the US syncro forum, hoping to build on that, only to
> > discover Dayco don't sell coolant hoses in Australia. Back to the
> > drawing board. I've yet to learn if the 2 major Australian suppliers
> of
> > hoses ... Gates and Mackay, have equivalents. I might get lucky and
> > uncover a cross reference chart.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm presently at the stage where I need to have confirmed the internal
>
> > diameters at each end of the 18 different hoses. Idea being I or
> anyone
> > can then search for the exact diameter equivalents and/or secondly,
> some
> > others at least as close as possible.
> >
> >
> >
> > To this end, I need your help please.
> >
> >
> >
> > Please find attached here a work-in-progress coolant hose chart. It's
> > pretty much self explanatory. Essentially what I need is feedback from
>
> > anyone who would measure the ends of new SPARE hoses they do have,
> then
> > compare these findings with the hose end measurements I have marked on
>
> > the chart in red. I need to be told if any of these marked dimensions
> > are incorrect. Not as important but also feel free to supply the
> correct
> > measurements of the ones with red question marks.
> >
> >
> >
> > Roger, I'm still waiting with baited breath the substitutes you have
> > uncovered and written down somewhere with a knib dipped in dirty
> engine
> > oil. Any luck so far or has your SS coolant pipes project got your
> > attention sidetracked?
> >
> >
> >
> > As I said before, many hands make light work. If I can achieve
> something
> > at all useful to the group with this, then being stuck anywhere around
>
> > Oz with a busted coolant hose but equipped with an equivalents ready
> > reckoner may then be not so daunting.
> >
> >
> >
> > Any glitches I've made, please advise ok. Thanks in advance. Cheers.
> >
> >
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com, Ken Garratt
> <unclekenz@. ..>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Roger,
> > >
> > > Yes I'd be interested to add to the list of known alternatives for
> 18
> > different syncro coolant hoses, especially if they are cheaper. Not
> easy
> > but as they say ... many hands make light work. Let me know what you
> > have please, make and model.
> > > Cheers.
> > >
> > > Ken
> > >
> > >
> > > To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> > > From: Gullyraker@. ..
> > > Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 07:31:01 +0000
> > > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
> > >
> > >
> > > You're idea of compiling a hose source list is a beauty. I've got a
> > couple of other substitutes scrawled into the Bentley Bible, written
> > with a broken fingernail dipped in oil ...
> > > I'll let you know what they are.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Roger [Beetle] Bayley.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> > Search for properties that match your lifestyle! Start searching NOW!
> > http://clk.atdmt. com/NMN/go/ 157631292/ direct/01/
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Video chat with Windows Live Messenger Learn how
> http://windowslive. ninemsn.com. au/messenger/ article/870686/ video-chat- wit
> h-messenger


Browse profiles for FREE View photos of singles in your area!
88
> bergodaz <bergodaz@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> I followed those instructions along with these- 950 kgs max payload ,
> 2000kgs max braked trailer and 420,000 klms later I still have failures!
> What's wrong with this bus?

Exactly! They should be good for at least 420,001 kms!



>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
> >
> > This forum is really getting depressing.
> >
> > VWs are so crap that we need to replace the whole cooling system every
> three years. On the odd years we need to replace the engine and the even
> years we need to replace the gearbox.
> >
> > Just maybe if we used the original parts and followed the instructions
> given to us by the VW engineers, things wouldn't fail so often.
> >
> >
> >
> > > Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Phill,
> > >
> > > ALL these hoses are problem ones, especially when the likes of
> Mackay
> > > advise replacing ALL hoses whenever the coolant is due for a full
> > > change, say every 2-3 years. Now that would be pretty novel to most
> > > syncros eh.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I think what hoses get prioritised is something I can consider
> further
> > > down the track. Bottom line is, when stuck anywhere away from home,
> any
> > > of these 18 listed hoses in a real life situation can be a problem.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > So at this stage, unless you have ideas of plunging in at the deep
> end
> > > with me on this exploration project, then all I'm seeking at this
> stage
> > > is ratification of end ID measurements for the listed 18 hoses from
> our
> > > Australia wide syncro membership. Imagine if 18 members ratified one
>
> > > different hose each ... too easy! I can move on to the next stage.
> > > Anyone please?
> > >
> > > Cheers.
> > >
> > > Ken
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > > From: plander@...
> > > Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 08:58:02 +1100
> > > Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ken,
> > >
> > > How about you mark the part numbers of the syncro specific hoses in
> bold
> > > or colours etc. as the these are more the problem ones.
> > >
> > > Phill
> > >
> > > > Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Roger and ALL,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Just an update concerning work-in-progress on rubber coolant hoses
> for
> > >
> > > > the T3 syncro. My objective being to identify as many available
> > > > substitutes as possible and sourced from Australia-wide auto parts
>
> > > > retail outlets .. hopefully cheaper as well.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I started out with a short list of much cheaper Dayco brand
> > > substitutes
> > > > gleaned from the US syncro forum, hoping to build on that, only to
>
> > > > discover Dayco don't sell coolant hoses in Australia. Back to the
> > > > drawing board. I've yet to learn if the 2 major Australian
> suppliers
> > > of
> > > > hoses ... Gates and Mackay, have equivalents. I might get lucky
> and
> > > > uncover a cross reference chart.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I'm presently at the stage where I need to have confirmed the
> internal
> > >
> > > > diameters at each end of the 18 different hoses. Idea being I or
> > > anyone
> > > > can then search for the exact diameter equivalents and/or
> secondly,
> > > some
> > > > others at least as close as possible.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To this end, I need your help please.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Please find attached here a work-in-progress coolant hose chart.
> It's
> > > > pretty much self explanatory. Essentially what I need is feedback
> from
> > >
> > > > anyone who would measure the ends of new SPARE hoses they do have,
>
> > > then
> > > > compare these findings with the hose end measurements I have
> marked on
> > >
> > > > the chart in red. I need to be told if any of these marked
> dimensions
> > > > are incorrect. Not as important but also feel free to supply the
> > > correct
> > > > measurements of the ones with red question marks.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Roger, I'm still waiting with baited breath the substitutes you
> have
> > > > uncovered and written down somewhere with a knib dipped in dirty
> > > engine
> > > > oil. Any luck so far or has your SS coolant pipes project got your
>
> > > > attention sidetracked?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > As I said before, many hands make light work. If I can achieve
> > > something
> > > > at all useful to the group with this, then being stuck anywhere
> around
> > >
> > > > Oz with a busted coolant hose but equipped with an equivalents
> ready
> > > > reckoner may then be not so daunting.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Any glitches I've made, please advise ok. Thanks in advance.
> Cheers.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ken
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt
> > > <unclekenz@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Roger,
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes I'd be interested to add to the list of known alternatives
> for
> > > 18
> > > > different syncro coolant hoses, especially if they are cheaper.
> Not
> > > easy
> > > > but as they say ... many hands make light work. Let me know what
> you
> > > > have please, make and model.
> > > > > Cheers.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ken
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > From: Gullyraker@
> > > > > Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 07:31:01 +0000
> > > > > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You're idea of compiling a hose source list is a beauty. I've
> got a
> > > > couple of other substitutes scrawled into the Bentley Bible,
> written
> > > > with a broken fingernail dipped in oil ...
> > > > > I'll let you know what they are.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers, Roger [Beetle] Bayley.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________________
> > > > Search for properties that match your lifestyle! Start searching
> NOW!
> > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Video chat with Windows Live Messenger Learn how
> > >
> http://windowslive.ninemsn.com.au/messenger/article/870686/video-chat-wit
>
> > > h-messenger
> >
89
Thanks for the tips Scott. I like the clamps with the curled up edges, hex drive heads, and no slots for the threads that leave impressions on the hose that make it difficult to replace the clamps exactly in the right place.
                                                                   Roger.

90
> Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Phill,
>
> Users get driven away by high VAG parts pricing and indifference. Simple
> as that.
>

Are they priced high?



>
>
> So what is your solution then when VAG makes syncro coolant hoses NLA?
> What are we then to do? My last count shows 3 hoses NLA. Good one VAG.

Are they NLA, NIS or replaced? (or the parts person is just plain lazy)




Ken, I hope that you don't think that this was aimed at you. Your list could be very helpful when away from the capital cities and I appreciate that you are compiling it. When I get a chance, I would like to compare some of the hoses to others from the VAG parts bin. I think that some adaptor pieces would be handy in the tool box so that the K-Mart standard hose can get you home.

As for now, I will try to use VAG or OEM hoses while I can.

Phill
91
On Feb 6, 2010, at 4:29 PM, plander@optusnet.com.au wrote:

> Just maybe if we used the original parts and followed the
> instructions given to us by the VW engineers, things wouldn't fail
> so often.

I'm not so sure I want to use those awful VAG parts. The original
hoses, headgaskets, and heads only lasted 386K miles (617,500 Kms)
even though I used the factory recommended coolant. ;-) Sold the van
to my mechanic eventually.

I did loose that coolant junction pipe at around 350K and a small hose
to the right head at about 375K miles.



BenT
92
I'd put a warranty claim in if I were you.



> BenT Syncro <syncro@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Feb 6, 2010, at 4:29 PM, plander@optusnet.com.au wrote:
>
> > Just maybe if we used the original parts and followed the
> > instructions given to us by the VW engineers, things wouldn't fail
> > so often.
>
> I'm not so sure I want to use those awful VAG parts. The original
> hoses, headgaskets, and heads only lasted 386K miles (617,500 Kms)
> even though I used the factory recommended coolant. ;-) Sold the van
> to my mechanic eventually.
>
> I did loose that coolant junction pipe at around 350K and a small hose
> to the right head at about 375K miles.
>
>
>
> BenT
93
On Feb 6, 2010, at 7:35 PM, plander@optusnet.com.au wrote:

> I'd put a warranty claim in if I were you.

I would except I don't own the van anymore.

Speaking of warranties, I once owned a relatively low mileage Syncro
which I bought from an engineer called Stanley Pittman from San Jose,
California. He loved going to Death Valley and managed to damage
almost all his CV's at 65K miles. He grumbled but paid the US$2,300 as
the Syncro out of warranty for over 12 years.

He wrote a letter to the president of VWofA expressing his
dissatisfaction. A few weeks before he sold me the van, a check came
in the email equal to the cost of replacing all 8 of his CV's.

It can't hurt to ask.


BenT
>
94

Roger,
Best I interpose my responses into your post ok.
 
G'day Ken
It's a great job that you're doing and it will be a service to everyone. Give yourself a pat on th back. My only gripe is, why didn't you do it earlier? - it could have saved me five or six hundred bucks!
Yes I agree, quite a few of these VAG hoses are way too expensive. Extrapolate that cost to all other parts that need replacing during ownership, then as Les says, we all need to own a gold mine to keep it on the road. I'm sorry I took so long starting this project, now that I hear you've since had to "mortgage your home" to pay for VAG replacement hoses. Oh dear.
I think it's fair to say that despite the best will in the world, I and others here on this forum have had to deal with real life coolant hose failure whilst absent from home. Not for the faint hearted I can assure detractors and having experienced it, this tends to focus ones mind on practical solutions for the future. 
I've still got most of the new hoses sitting in a box in the shed - except those already fitted to the new motor which is sitting on the engine stand. As soon as I get a chance I'll provide I.D. measurements for you, and check them against the O.D. of the fittings they attach to.
Thanks, that'd be really great. I want these yesterday ok, no rush haha. Be nice if others might also chime in with the remaining hoses. 

I couldn't see a reference number or description allocated to N 901 976 01, RHS cyl head < > perimeter plastic pipe.
Connected to the perimeter plastic hose are 6 rubber hoses, three of which are simply cut-to-length straight rubber coolant hose. For this project I'm ignoring these particular three which are inclusive of the one you mention as they definitely aren't a problem in terms of supply or fitting.  

I have only found substitutes for the above hose, plus #26 & #65. I'll send you the details.
The N 901 976 01 is straight cut-to-length hose so no problem, #26 substitute is valuable info I'd like, not sure what you mean about a #65. A clue plz?

Would it be helpful if I measured the overall length of each hose?
Yes please, if you can do that at the same time. That'd help ratify my "piece of string" in situ findings and definitely help with substitute selection. To be consistant with Mackay hose manufacturer catalogue concerning curvy hoses, they list hose length in accordance with the measured overall hose length on the side that is predominantly on the outside of the curve. A piece of string is good for that.

I think I mentioned on a previous post that Gates make a range of rubber sleeves designed to slip inside the end of a hose to make it fit a smaller diameter pipe. This would be usueful for adapting a universal hose fit applications that require different sized ends, such as #2, #3, #15, #16, #17A & #38. With these, it would be practical to carry lengths of universal hose to cover multiple repairs. Straight lengths of hose are much easier to store in an expedition vehicle, and take up less space.
Correct me please if I'm misunderstanding, but it seems to me there are limited opportunities to use straight hose given that most syncro hoses are smallish in length and curvy. I see there are bendy hoses available also but it seems to me so far that even the shortest available ones are too long and can't be shortened to what is required. Adding sleeves is definitely a viable fallback solution. I would be happy to see these included should there be no alternative. Tell me though, isn't fitting the next size down hose offcut (i.e., sleeve) into a selected substitute hose that has an oversize end ID doing the same job and cheaper? I accept this solution may not work for some of the pretty confined spaces or where very adjacent to other components. A matter of case by case hose assessment and depending first upon what hoses are unearthed in this project. 
 
I looked at the Gates website but couldn't find the dimensions. I'll check it out at the radiator shop. I'll be down there again soon to order the stainless steel pipe.
Go chat up your local parts supplier as I have done. I presently have here a superseded Mackay Master Hose 2007 catalogue they weren't needing in a hurry, excellent for hose research. Disappointing they told me they only stock in-store the popular hoses, meaning depending upon where around Australia each branch is located and what sells there, so each store has its own selected limited hose range to suit local demand. Meaning for me seeking substitutes, nothing much at all to look at as compared to what is listed in their catalogues. I have yet to see a Gates Master Hose catalogue, my gut feeling is that it will reveal viable substitutes missing from Mackay. Mackay is Australian origin, Gates is USA, so go figure.

By the way, I'm tempted to open a whole new can of worms by throwing silicone hoses into the ring for discussion. So far my preliminary research is that there is silicone, and silicone - some of the cheaper hoses are not up to scratch.
You're just trying to make my job harder eh .. haha. Yes silicone hoses have crossed my mind but at this stage ... on the backburner.

The same could be said for rubber hoses. I would think twice about using anything less than the best quality branded hose, especially in high-temp situations.
I'm open to suggestions, but at the moment it makes sense to me sticking with Oz auto industry recognised Mackay and Gates hoses.

Has anyone got feedback on the merits of factory spring-loaded hose clamps versus screw clamps? I had a good quality screw clamp fail recently. Maybe I did it up too tight. I've taken to doubling them up where there is room. Paranoid.
Mackay claims spring clamps do lose tension over time and should be replaced along with the hoses. Gets messier and messier eh. I understand when it comes to hot/cold cycling, spring clamps are better as they can ease and tighten along with whatever they are clamped to, thereby limiting added stresses to the hose that screw ups normally can't. I agree screw ups on their own are a bit of a worry, given what I've seen here and especially if they let go as in your case, but I haven't yet seen that. The quality of the screw ups may help here. They do vary so let the user beware. I like the stainless steel ones better, preferably with the hex headed screw. Given what I've seen while reviewing/repairing/maintaining my syncro cooling reticulation system, I'm a bit of a fan of leaving the spring clamps where they are and wherever possible, adding an additional clamp .. usually a SS screw up. That way I get 2 types of clamping. Works so far, time will tell. So far I've had no reason to change to more sophisticated clamps. Maybe that's because I've yet to join the grey nomads around OZ trip and so not stressed the system enough to find out. 

What about using a lubricant such as vaseline when fitting tight rubber hoses, as I have seen some people do? Factory-fitted hoses on some vehicles appear to be glued on with an adhesive that probably acts as a lubricant during assembly. Any thoughts?
Don't like that idea at all of using vaseline. Mackay says just lubricate with water to adjoining surfaces to give some slip for assembly. Mackay reckons oil is a serious hose killer and to be avoided. Interestingly and perhaps contrary to Scotts (Turbovan) experience, they also say "many automotive coolants once carried oil to act as a rust inhibitor and water pump lubricant. Coolants with oil-based lubricant or rust inhibitor should be avoided". So where does that leave Scotts scenario of adding soluble machine oil to the coolant system? Same issue or different, either way, Mackays concern is that oil degrades coolant hoses.
Apparently many rubber coolant hoses are now made from EPDM (Ethylene Propylene type synthetic rubbers) that are highly resistant to ozone attack, a by-product common near the alternator and other electrical sources in the engine compartment. It internally attacks stress points near hose bends or around hose clips. 

I haven't been able to get near the Syncro project lately as I'm trying to get my head around the Lucas fuel injection system in the old Range Rover, which now has long grass growing around it.
No worries Roger, I'm just here strumming my fingers ok ... haha
 
Meanwhile the old kombi keeps on going, although I have to give it a good thrashing in second gear every time the tappets start rattling.
You looking to add to your stable of T2's? I have a 76 double cab ute here you can add to your list of restoration projects if you like, fill in your spare time .. haha
 
Cheers, Roger {Beetle] Bayley
Look forward to hearing back from you whenever ok. Cheers. Ken



Learn how Video chat with Windows Live Messenger
95
Ken,

#18 should be 251 121 083 A (251 121 130 B is for 2WD although it may be a substitute part)

#15 ETKA shows as 255 121 083 A for spare wheel under front. I have an idea from many years ago that you may have the correct part #. (Same for #16)







> Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Roger and ALL,
>
>
>
> Just an update concerning work-in-progress on rubber coolant hoses for
> the T3 syncro. My objective being to identify as many available
> substitutes as possible and sourced from Australia-wide auto parts
> retail outlets .. hopefully cheaper as well.
>
>
>
> I started out with a short list of much cheaper Dayco brand substitutes
> gleaned from the US syncro forum, hoping to build on that, only to
> discover Dayco don't sell coolant hoses in Australia. Back to the
> drawing board. I've yet to learn if the 2 major Australian suppliers of
> hoses ... Gates and Mackay, have equivalents. I might get lucky and
> uncover a cross reference chart.
>
>
>
> I'm presently at the stage where I need to have confirmed the internal
> diameters at each end of the 18 different hoses. Idea being I or anyone
> can then search for the exact diameter equivalents and/or secondly, some
> others at least as close as possible.
>
>
>
> To this end, I need your help please.
>
>
>
> Please find attached here a work-in-progress coolant hose chart. It's
> pretty much self explanatory. Essentially what I need is feedback from
> anyone who would measure the ends of new SPARE hoses they do have, then
> compare these findings with the hose end measurements I have marked on
> the chart in red. I need to be told if any of these marked dimensions
> are incorrect. Not as important but also feel free to supply the correct
> measurements of the ones with red question marks.
>
>
>
> Roger, I'm still waiting with baited breath the substitutes you have
> uncovered and written down somewhere with a knib dipped in dirty engine
> oil. Any luck so far or has your SS coolant pipes project got your
> attention sidetracked?
>
>
>
> As I said before, many hands make light work. If I can achieve something
> at all useful to the group with this, then being stuck anywhere around
> Oz with a busted coolant hose but equipped with an equivalents ready
> reckoner may then be not so daunting.
>
>
>
> Any glitches I've made, please advise ok. Thanks in advance. Cheers.
>
>
>
> Ken
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Roger,
> >
> > Yes I'd be interested to add to the list of known alternatives for 18
> different syncro coolant hoses, especially if they are cheaper. Not easy
> but as they say ... many hands make light work. Let me know what you
> have please, make and model.
> > Cheers.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > From: Gullyraker@...
> > Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 07:31:01 +0000
> > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
> >
> >
> > You're idea of compiling a hose source list is a beauty. I've got a
> couple of other substitutes scrawled into the Bentley Bible, written
> with a broken fingernail dipped in oil ...
> > I'll let you know what they are.
> >
> > Cheers, Roger [Beetle] Bayley.
> >
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Search for properties that match your lifestyle! Start searching NOW!
> http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/
96
Ken,

Hoses 2,9,13,14,15,17a,(18),26,26a are syncro only. These will be the difficult to get.

All of the others are common to 2WD.












> Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Roger and ALL,
>
>
>
> Just an update concerning work-in-progress on rubber coolant hoses for
> the T3 syncro. My objective being to identify as many available
> substitutes as possible and sourced from Australia-wide auto parts
> retail outlets .. hopefully cheaper as well.
>
>
>
> I started out with a short list of much cheaper Dayco brand substitutes
> gleaned from the US syncro forum, hoping to build on that, only to
> discover Dayco don't sell coolant hoses in Australia. Back to the
> drawing board. I've yet to learn if the 2 major Australian suppliers of
> hoses ... Gates and Mackay, have equivalents. I might get lucky and
> uncover a cross reference chart.
>
>
>
> I'm presently at the stage where I need to have confirmed the internal
> diameters at each end of the 18 different hoses. Idea being I or anyone
> can then search for the exact diameter equivalents and/or secondly, some
> others at least as close as possible.
>
>
>
> To this end, I need your help please.
>
>
>
> Please find attached here a work-in-progress coolant hose chart. It's
> pretty much self explanatory. Essentially what I need is feedback from
> anyone who would measure the ends of new SPARE hoses they do have, then
> compare these findings with the hose end measurements I have marked on
> the chart in red. I need to be told if any of these marked dimensions
> are incorrect. Not as important but also feel free to supply the correct
> measurements of the ones with red question marks.
>
>
>
> Roger, I'm still waiting with baited breath the substitutes you have
> uncovered and written down somewhere with a knib dipped in dirty engine
> oil. Any luck so far or has your SS coolant pipes project got your
> attention sidetracked?
>
>
>
> As I said before, many hands make light work. If I can achieve something
> at all useful to the group with this, then being stuck anywhere around
> Oz with a busted coolant hose but equipped with an equivalents ready
> reckoner may then be not so daunting.
>
>
>
> Any glitches I've made, please advise ok. Thanks in advance. Cheers.
>
>
>
> Ken
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Roger,
> >
> > Yes I'd be interested to add to the list of known alternatives for 18
> different syncro coolant hoses, especially if they are cheaper. Not easy
> but as they say ... many hands make light work. Let me know what you
> have please, make and model.
> > Cheers.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > From: Gullyraker@...
> > Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 07:31:01 +0000
> > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
> >
> >
> > You're idea of compiling a hose source list is a beauty. I've got a
> couple of other substitutes scrawled into the Bentley Bible, written
> with a broken fingernail dipped in oil ...
> > I'll let you know what they are.
> >
> > Cheers, Roger [Beetle] Bayley.
> >
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Search for properties that match your lifestyle! Start searching NOW!
> http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/
97
Phill,
Yep, in my opinion, and I'm not alone, for what's on offer, compared to the opposition ... many VAG hoses are too expensive.
 
The US Syncro Forum Head believes it, he's previously carried out a similar exercise for the US members, I'm interested to do something similar here. Detractors might well now ask ... well what would he know?
 
But that's only part of the reasoning.
 
As I understand it, three syncro hoses are now NLA. Two of those are still NLA, the other is a cheaper substitute but I haven't eyeballed that one yet to compare. I wonder then what else is in store for us down the track?
 
Funny thing about that, substitution is exactly what I'm trying to find out about for OZ members and for less money and way more readily available locally and also carrying reputable branding. Have I missed something?
 
For mine, reality kicks in when a hose fails while I'm passing through, in all places ...  Sydney. In stop/start traffic I coax the syncro to the nearest and very long established VW service outlet, only to discover they don't stock T3 coolant hoses anyway due to too many hoses, haven't got the space and anyway, unviable to keep parts inventory on the shelf anymore and it's Friday afternoon and the clock is ticking down to the weekend! Guess what, the mechanic searched for and installed a substitute hose. Where from I hear you ask? The local auto parts outlet of course! It's still fitted to this day. Happened to me. Hence the motivation, thinking about avoiding a repeat. Phill watch out, you're in Sydney ... maybe you're next ok .. haha.
 
If this exercise produces more available, economical, practical and sensible substitutes locally, then yes, these can be trialled, tested, chew the fat over, by all and sundry. Be nice to see that happen, we might all get to be the beneficiaries.
 
Cheers.
Ken
 
 
 
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: plander@optusnet.com.au
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:55:50 +1100
Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses

 


> Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail. com> wrote:
>
>
> Phill,
>
> Users get driven away by high VAG parts pricing and indifference. Simple
> as that.
>

Are they priced high?

>
>
> So what is your solution then when VAG makes syncro coolant hoses NLA?
> What are we then to do? My last count shows 3 hoses NLA. Good one VAG.

Are they NLA, NIS or replaced? (or the parts person is just plain lazy)

Ken, I hope that you don't think that this was aimed at you. Your list could be very helpful when away from the capital cities and I appreciate that you are compiling it. When I get a chance, I would like to compare some of the hoses to others from the VAG parts bin. I think that some adaptor pieces would be handy in the tool box so that the K-Mart standard hose can get you home.

As for now, I will try to use VAG or OEM hoses while I can.

Phill


Learn how Video chat with Windows Live Messenger
98
Ken,

I really think that you need to read my post again.

I appreciate what you're doing here and will carry a copy in my syncro in case of emergencies.

I just hate people butchering vehicles due to perceived cost or urban myths.

When I had Holden I bought Holden parts.

When I had Range Rover I bought Range Rover parts. (except the Lucas bits)

When I had Nissan I sold it quickly.




> Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Phill,
> Yep, in my opinion, and I'm not alone, for what's on offer, compared to
> the opposition ... many VAG hoses are too expensive.
>
> The US Syncro Forum Head believes it, he's previously carried out a
> similar exercise for the US members, I'm interested to do something
> similar here. Detractors might well now ask ... well what would he know?
>
> But that's only part of the reasoning.
>
> As I understand it, three syncro hoses are now NLA. Two of those are
> still NLA, the other is a cheaper substitute but I haven't eyeballed
> that one yet to compare. I wonder then what else is in store for us down
> the track?
>
> Funny thing about that, substitution is exactly what I'm trying to find
> out about for OZ members and for less money and way more readily
> available locally and also carrying reputable branding. Have I missed
> something?
>
> For mine, reality kicks in when a hose fails while I'm passing through,
> in all places ... Sydney. In stop/start traffic I coax the syncro to
> the nearest and very long established VW service outlet, only to
> discover they don't stock T3 coolant hoses anyway due to too many hoses,
> haven't got the space and anyway, unviable to keep parts inventory on
> the shelf anymore and it's Friday afternoon and the clock is ticking
> down to the weekend! Guess what, the mechanic searched for and installed
> a substitute hose. Where from I hear you ask? The local auto parts
> outlet of course! It's still fitted to this day. Happened to me. Hence
> the motivation, thinking about avoiding a repeat. Phill watch out,
> you're in Sydney ... maybe you're next ok .. haha.
>
> If this exercise produces more available, economical, practical and
> sensible substitutes locally, then yes, these can be trialled, tested,
> chew the fat over, by all and sundry. Be nice to see that happen, we
> might all get to be the beneficiaries.
>
> Cheers.
> Ken
>
>
>
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: plander@optusnet.com.au
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:55:50 +1100
> Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Phill,
> >
> > Users get driven away by high VAG parts pricing and indifference.
> Simple
> > as that.
> >
>
> Are they priced high?
>
> >
> >
> > So what is your solution then when VAG makes syncro coolant hoses NLA?
>
> > What are we then to do? My last count shows 3 hoses NLA. Good one VAG.
>
>
> Are they NLA, NIS or replaced? (or the parts person is just plain lazy)
>
> Ken, I hope that you don't think that this was aimed at you. Your list
> could be very helpful when away from the capital cities and I appreciate
> that you are compiling it. When I get a chance, I would like to compare
> some of the hoses to others from the VAG parts bin. I think that some
> adaptor pieces would be handy in the tool box so that the K-Mart
> standard hose can get you home.
>
> As for now, I will try to use VAG or OEM hoses while I can.
>
> Phill
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Video chat with Windows Live Messenger Learn how
> http://windowslive.ninemsn.com.au/messenger/article/870686/video-chat-wit
> h-messenger
99

Roger and Ken have been accumulating information of high interest and importance to all Syncro owners in our group.  What they have put together represents a considerable amount of time and effort which will be to the lasting benefit of all of us.

 I think that we have reached the point where we need to separate the immense compilation of significant information from the philosophy of using genuine or non-genuine parts. 

I prefer to use genuine parts when they available but splitting a hose a long way from home can leave the most determined of us with no options. 

Having the Roger/Ken list permanently in the glove box could get a lot of us off the hook.

Roger, Ken, your considerable efforts are acknowledged and greatly appreciated.

Les

100
Phill,
No sweat here, I'm just setting the record straight for everyones elucidation in an effort to stay on track and moving forward.
 
You say #18 should be 251 121 083 A. Care to elaborate please as I'm unaware of that part number for any T3. Is it a recent unannounced Oz VAG substitute for #18 original 251 121 072A? This latter being the NLA hose that is historically the most replaced syncro hose. My research shows the T3 2WD #18 being 251 121 130 B is now the syncro substitute, certainly it is in US. Thoughts please? 
 
Yeah these pair of feed and return long rubber hoses out front at the radiator are somewhat perplexing for me. I read what ETKA says and also comments from various US forum/supply sources about them. The general consensus seems to be that the stock standard hoses are just fine, especially at around a quarter to less than half the price of the more tailored (shaped) pair of hoses meant for T3s with a 205/70 SR14 spare wheel underneath. That's a joke. My spare underneath is BFG T/A 215 75 R15 and I'm running standard hoses! Go figure.
 
For example, my syncro has always had a dead straight feed hose, so that would be #15 being 251 121 082 as per pic chart I supplied. It's for example $US20.85 from BusBoys in US. But get the special (with spare wheel) hose 255 121 083A and it's a gasping $US77.30. Similarly for the return hose, I have always had #16 being 251 121 083H standard shaped hose as per pic chart. It's $US33.50 but get the special shaped hose alternative #16 being 255 121 081A and that's a 2nd mortgage at $US85.71. I see Roger sensibly bought this latter economical one also. Most if not all syncros here can store the spare underneath, but from what I've seen and read, the standard economical long hoses work just fine with a spare wheel in situ.
 
Sorry Phill, but I'm not at all interested in being pedantic or masochistic just so I can fork out a staggering $US163.01 for 2 hoses that a pair of standard hoses at $US54.35 does the job just fine anyway.
 
At the end of this project, I reckon I might be good for a thesis, special study area ... syncro coolant hoses haha. Cripes!
 
Cheers.
 
Ken     
 
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: plander@optusnet.com.au
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:35:48 +1100
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses

 
Ken,

#18 should be 251 121 083 A (251 121 130 B is for 2WD although it may be a substitute part)

#15 ETKA shows as 255 121 083 A for spare wheel under front. I have an idea from many years ago that you may have the correct part #. (Same for #16)



If It Exists, You'll Find it on SEEK Shopping Trolley Mechanic