----- Original Message -----From: plander@optusnet.com.auSent: Friday, January 15, 2010 7:36 AMSubject: Re: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
He
> even offers a higher grade SS up to foodgrade.
That is not good, Food grade is the least corrosion resistant.Marine grade is better.
----- Original Message -----From: Ken GarrattSent: Friday, January 15, 2010 1:04 AMSubject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hosesRoger,
I forgot to say before.
I discovered soon after I bought my syncro that I had the corrosion damage to the end of one of the plastic coolant pipes, I would imagine it was the hot feed line, can't remember, it's been a few years now since I tackled the problem. Typically it's the end lip or ridge that comes away due to metal corrosion, making it difficult to then keep the adjoining front coolant hose attached ... without the lip, the hose clip can pretty much just slide off as well as the hose .... bye bye coolant and you have a major problem. Also begs the question, how come they used ordinary steel in the pipe ends?
Anyway I saw that GoWesty repair kit and bought it, I mean, what other option did I have? Anyway, using bits out of the kit and double clipping the rubber hose/plastic pipe connection ... to this day I've never had a problem with it. Changing to the correct G12 plus coolant is probably helping as well, the previous coolant was green and there was a lot of metal corrosion particles in the pipes ...... bit of a worry at the time thinking about corroded head studs too.
Maybe you should revisit this option, be a lot cheaper.
Ken
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
From: Gullyraker@aol. com
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:11:59 -0500
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
Ken,
I started collecting all the coolant hoses about eighteen months ago to go with the engine and transmission rebuild [a work in progress]. I got most of them from Tooley Imports in Sydney, and the rest from Van Cafe, who have excellent photographs of the components on their website. I could have saved a few dollars buy buying the straight lengths of hose locally.
The rationale is that most wasserboxer engine catastrophes [that I have seen] are caused by coolant system failures, so there was no point fitting an expensive new engine without overhauling the cooling system.
The first thing I ever replace on a T3 is the pressure cap on the coolant reservoir - it's cheap insurance.
A part that is often overlooked is the 'oil cooler' which is connected to the water pump, and often corrodes. All of the metal pipes and fittings should be checked for corrosion [especially if the correct coolant has not been used] - Van cafe even sells some of them with ceramic coating.
Radiators should be cleaned and pressure-tested. I wouldn't even think about doing a big trip with a twenty-year- old radiator.
You are correct in saying that the hoses that fail the most are those closest to the engine.
I've include a few of the prices below; the hoses alone set me back over $500. Next time I probably wouldn't bother about the hoses that attach to the radiator, as they generally seem to last for ever. The Australian prices include GST, and the U.S. prices reflect what I paid in $AU at the time, but don't include freight - which would be difficult to compute because I bought a lot of other stuff as well. I didn't include the price of a water pump.
14/01/03 - Tooley's - 068 121 253D - Radiator T3 vanagon 1.9 - 2.1 1984-92 $313.50
14/01/03 - Tooley's - 025 121 321A - Radiator cap T3 vanagon 10.45
14/01/03 - Tooley's - freight on above [to Goulburn] 29.00
05/06/03 - Tom Hunt Spares - Triton TTG33Thermostat gasket 3.85
05/06/03 - Tom Hunt Spares - Triton TT273-180 Thermostat 59.55
26/05/05 - Tooley's - 6- 1.5 litre bottles G11 coolant 86.80
25/09/08 - Tooley's - coolant hose 025 121 058D oil cooler 4.20
25/09/08 - Tooley's - coolant hose 025 121 058E oil cooler to thermostat housing 8.30
25/09/08 - Tooley's - coolant hose 025 121 058G oil cooler 6.20
25/09/08 - Tooley's - coolant hose 025 121 058H to expansion tank 21.95
25/09/08 - Tooley's - coolant hose 025 121 058J at water pump 7.10
25/09/08 - Tooley's - coolant hose 025 121 058M cyl. head to plastic pipe 59.40
25/09/08 - Tooley's - coolant hose N 901 287 03 elbow to water pump pipe 14.85
25/09/08 - Tooley's - coolant hose 025 121 072A 4WD pl. junction pipe to motor 74.80
25/09/08 - Tooley's - coolant hose 025 121 073H pipe to thermostat housing 24.20
25/09/08 - Tooley's - coolant hose 025 121 081G 133.20
25/09/08 - Tooley's - coolant hose 251 121 083H radiator to main pipe 43.05
25/09/08 - Tooley's - coolant hose 251 121 102 plastic junction to main pipe 59.85
25/09/08 - Tooley's - coolant hose 025 121 108E to expansion tank 25.30
20/5/09 - Clark Rubber - 1.5 m. 5/16 [8mm] heater hose 15.50
31/7/09 - Van Café - 025 121 058 B Thermostat housing to pipe hose 30.00
31/7/09 - Van Café - 251 121 082 coolant pipe to radiator feed hose 27.00
31/7/09 - Van Café - 068 117 021 B Oil Cooler 80.00
28/8/09 - GoWesty! - Syncro coolant pipe repair kit [useless waste of money] 54.50
28/8/09 - GoWesty! - freight on above 30.00
By the way, has anybody out there found a local manufacturer for stainless steel coolant pipes?
Cheers, Roger [Beetle] Bayley.
Learn how Video chat with Windows Live Messenger
Ok lets talk pricing on G12+ VAG approved coolant concentrate.
This normally comes in 1.5 litre plastic containers.
Locally sourced, I've always paid $20 per container. Not unusual to buy 6 containers.
Anyone got a cheaper source and/or comes in larger quantity containers for a cheaper per litre price?
Ken
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: plander@optusnet.com.au
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 07:44:44 +1100
Subject: Re: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
> Gary Cookson <gary@twentytwentyon e.net> wrote:
>
> Does anyone have any idea which coolant the diesels should run. Mine is
> in need of a change i think. What is in there looks decidedly murky?
>
> Cheers
> Gary
>
>
>
> On 14/01/2010, at 12:46 PM, BenT Syncro wrote:
>
> > On Jan 13, 2010, at 4:11 PM, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail. com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > yep ... mine had the black cap when I bought my syncro ...
> > >
> > > I wonder how come it hadn't failed and how come AutoBahn Strecker in
>
> > > Sydney never changed it during a routine service? After all, service
>
> > > receipts I have show they added "green" coolant concentrate at every
>
> > > service so they had to take the black cap off! Just how good are
> > > they??!!
> > > Ken
> >
> > Well, they're using green coolant. How good can they be?
> >
> > On a side note, my former 1987 2.1 got a dose of fresh VW blue coolant
>
> > every couple of years. It managed 386K miles before I gave it up for
> > an engine conversion.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > BenT
> >
> >
If It Exists, You'll Find it on SEEK Shopping Trolley Mechanic
In regards to the oil issue I use Nulon 10-40w full Synthetic engine oil and a VAG oil filter that is replaced every 10000 kms.Transaxle oil is genuine VW that cost heaps and was also sold in 1.5l I think.I can get these oils as well.
--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> All,
>
>
>
> Ok lets talk pricing on G12+ VAG approved coolant concentrate.
>
>
>
> This normally comes in 1.5 litre plastic containers.
>
>
>
> Locally sourced, I've always paid $20 per container. Not unusual to buy 6 containers.
>
>
>
> Anyone got a cheaper source and/or comes in larger quantity containers for a cheaper per litre price?
>
> Ken
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: plander@...
> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 07:44:44 +1100
> Subject: Re: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
>
>
>
>
>
> G12+ (or G11 if you have leftovers)
>
> > Gary Cookson <gary@...> wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone have any idea which coolant the diesels should run. Mine is
> > in need of a change i think. What is in there looks decidedly murky?
> >
> > Cheers
> > Gary
> >
> >
> >
> > On 14/01/2010, at 12:46 PM, BenT Syncro wrote:
> >
> > > On Jan 13, 2010, at 4:11 PM, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > yep ... mine had the black cap when I bought my syncro ...
> > > >
> > > > I wonder how come it hadn't failed and how come AutoBahn Strecker in
> >
> > > > Sydney never changed it during a routine service? After all, service
> >
> > > > receipts I have show they added "green" coolant concentrate at every
> >
> > > > service so they had to take the black cap off! Just how good are
> > > > they??!!
> > > > Ken
> > >
> > > Well, they're using green coolant. How good can they be?
> > >
> > > On a side note, my former 1987 2.1 got a dose of fresh VW blue coolant
> >
> > > every couple of years. It managed 386K miles before I gave it up for
> > > an engine conversion.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > BenT
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Shopping Trolley Mechanic If It Exists, You'll Find it on SEEK
> http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157639755/direct/01/
>
I bought the Gowesty coolant pipe repair kit but I wasn't impressed. The metal sleeve was inserted in the rubber hose which was slipped back over the damaged plastic pipe until they butted together, and secured with two hose clamps. [see http://www.gowesty.com/library_article.php?id=113 ]. I took it down to the radiator and muffler shop for some expert advice and they weren't impressed either. The only dubious advantage was that it offered rigidity to the connection, but didn't re-inforce the broken plastic pipe or replace the rusted steel insert.
We weren't game to tighten the hose clamp onto a brittle plastic pipe without a steel insert. I reckon that the Gowesty repair kit is a light and compact bit of gear that could be carried in case of emergency, but I would only rely on it as a temporary repair. However if you have had a good run with it Ken then it couldn't be too bad.
We came up with a simple solution that worked well. We just removed the old steel insert, found some muffler pipe that fit, and expanded one end of it to the same O.D. as the plastic pipe. It was about 60 mm long. We pushed the narrow end into the plastic pipe, slipped the rubber hose over the big end and attached it with two clamps - one on the steel, the other on the reinforced plastic.
This system could be used to replace any length of damaged plastic pipe. I now carry a spare length that can be cut down to suit. It might come in handy as a donger one day.
Stainless steel is preferred, but mild steel will get you out of trouble. Copper, brass or aluminium will also do.
If you don't have access to a muffler shop with a pipe expander you could braize or solder a sleeve around the insert pipe.
Garry from the radiator & muffler centre is a sheet-metal worker by trade and will make stainless steel pipes like those offered on overseas web sites, using my 4WD or 2WD T3 pipes as a pattern, but we are still looking for someone who can sell or lend us a bead roller small enough to fit 1 1/4" pipe. This is necessary to form the lip at the end of the pipe so the hose clamp can't slip off. If anyone has access to a bead roller we could probably do a job lot.
Garry has made custom coolant pipes for marine applications, and reccommends 304 food-grade s/steel for durability.
I was talking to Adrian Muller a while ago and he was organising a local supplier for s/s pipes.
Does anybody have any feedback on the stainless steel pipes? Are there any downsides? Do they need insulation in extreme climates?
By the way, when replacing hoses on plastic pipe make sure the inserts are seated properly. I found out the hard way when I glanced at the temp gauge while climbing a steep grade in G gear with a full load on board. I was surprised to see the needle dropping. The coolant level had dropped below the temp. sender in the radiator, and fooled it completely. We pulled over with steam gushing out of the rear wheel arch on the driver's side. When it cooled down it looked like the hose junction was securely clamped, but I had clamped the insert, which slipped out of the pipe. Doh!
When I eventually replaced the bulging hose [from the black plastic distribution box that lives at the corner of the engine compartment nearest the driver's seat to the outside plastic pipe, part number 251 121 102], I had to find something else to fit; they weren't available. It seems that everyone has worked out that you don't need to pay fifty bucks for a factory hose with a slight bend in the end when a straight bit will do. I bought some 1 1/4" [32 mm] hose for less than $10. If you're really fussy you could make the steel insert described above with a slight bend in it.
Cheers for now, Roger [Beetle] Bayley.
Haha you're a glutton for punishment! :-)
I just had another look at my GoWesty kit repaired joint. Honestly I can't remember now what exactly I did. I had a problem with only one of the rear joints, I vaguely recall resolving the problem "my way" but still using the brass insert. I do understand the principle of the spring clips being able to contract and expand as required but I made a unilateral decision to go with screw ups, thinking about trying to stop this repair joint pulling apart under pressure. I just had another poke around at the joint to doublecheck and it's dry as a bone, screw ups don't need tightening, no sign of leaking whatever, rubber looks undamaged and very solid joint ... no way this joint is coming apart! Maybe your plastic pipe end was more damaged than mine. So I still have the unused kit parts here for a "rainy" day.
My coolant hose sourcing project continues as a work in progress. I'm having a go at compiling a comparison hose pricing list from a number of sources ... interesting to see how the pricing varies between suppliers. Still early days. I only wish I/other members could buy these hoses at wholesale. Anyone here got that sort of access?
From your own hoses list, I'm mystified about hose 025 121 081G @ $133.20. Can you tell me what that hose is all about and its location please? Can't see it on ETKA yet, Phill probably knows exactly. Expensive eh.
Roger, if you're after a bead roller, just ask Hartmut. Heh I reckon he must have every piece of high and low tech equipment and machinery known to man and in the unlikely event he hasn't got it, he's clever enough to knock one up at a moments notice. There's nothing stopping this guy. Prove me wrong. I'd be asking him if I was you ok.
Cheers.
Ken
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: Gullyraker@aol.com
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 06:30:14 -0500
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
I bought the Gowesty coolant pipe repair kit but I wasn't impressed. The metal sleeve was inserted in the rubber hose which was slipped back over the damaged plastic pipe until they butted together, and secured with two hose clamps. [see http://www.gowesty. com/library_ article.php? id=113 ]. I took it down to the radiator and muffler shop for some expert advice and they weren't impressed either. The only dubious advantage was that it offered rigidity to the connection, but didn't re-inforce the broken plastic pipe or replace the rusted steel insert.
We weren't game to tighten the hose clamp onto a brittle plastic pipe without a steel insert. I reckon that the Gowesty repair kit is a light and compact bit of gear that could be carried in case of emergency, but I would only rely on it as a temporary repair. However if you have had a good run with it Ken then it couldn't be too bad.
We came up with a simple solution that worked well. We just removed the old steel insert, found some muffler pipe that fit, and expanded one end of it to the same O.D. as the plastic pipe. It was about 60 mm long. We pushed the narrow end into the plastic pipe, slipped the rubber hose over the big end and attached it with two clamps - one on the steel, the other on the reinforced plastic.
This system could be used to replace any length of damaged plastic pipe. I now carry a spare length that can be cut down to suit. It might come in handy as a donger one day.
Stainless steel is preferred, but mild steel will get you out of trouble. Copper, brass or aluminium will also do.
If you don't have access to a muffler shop with a pipe expander you could braize or solder a sleeve around the insert pipe.
Garry from the radiator & muffler centre is a sheet-metal worker by trade and will make stainless steel pipes like those offered on overseas web sites, using my 4WD or 2WD T3 pipes as a pattern, but we are still looking for someone who can sell or lend us a bead roller small enough to fit 1 1/4" pipe. This is necessary to form the lip at the end of the pipe so the hose clamp can't slip off. If anyone has access to a bead roller we could probably do a job lot.
Garry has made custom coolant pipes for marine applications, and reccommends 304 food-grade s/steel for durability.
I was talking to Adrian Muller a while ago and he was organising a local supplier for s/s pipes.
Does anybody have any feedback on the stainless steel pipes? Are there any downsides? Do they need insulation in extreme climates?
By the way, when replacing hoses on plastic pipe make sure the inserts are seated properly. I found out the hard way when I glanced at the temp gauge while climbing a steep grade in G gear with a full load on board. I was surprised to see the needle dropping. The coolant level had dropped below the temp. sender in the radiator, and fooled it completely. We pulled over with steam gushing out of the rear wheel arch on the driver's side. When it cooled down it looked like the hose junction was securely clamped, but I had clamped the insert, which slipped out of the pipe. Doh!
When I eventually replaced the bulging hose [from the black plastic distribution box that lives at the corner of the engine compartment nearest the driver's seat to the outside plastic pipe, part number 251 121 102], I had to find something else to fit; they weren't available. It seems that everyone has worked out that you don't need to pay fifty bucks for a factory hose with a slight bend in the end when a straight bit will do. I bought some 1 1/4" [32 mm] hose for less than $10. If you're really fussy you could make the steel insert described above with a slight bend in it.
Cheers for now, Roger [Beetle] Bayley.
Sell your old one fast! Time for a new car?
this stuff fallen off the back of a truck?
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: bencroft96@yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 09:32:44 +0000
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] G12+ coolant and synthetic oils
In regards to the oil issue I use Nulon 10-40w full Synthetic engine oil and a VAG oil filter that is replaced every 10000 kms.Transaxle oil is genuine VW that cost heaps and was also sold in 1.5l I think.I can get these oils as well.
--- In Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@. ..> wrote:
>
>
> All,
>
>
>
> Ok lets talk pricing on G12+ VAG approved coolant concentrate.
>
>
>
> This normally comes in 1.5 litre plastic containers.
>
>
>
> Locally sourced, I've always paid $20 per container. Not unusual to buy 6 containers.
>
>
>
> Anyone got a cheaper source and/or comes in larger quantity containers for a cheaper per litre price?
>
> Ken
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> From: plander@...
> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 07:44:44 +1100
> Subject: Re: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
>
>
>
>
>
> G12+ (or G11 if you have leftovers)
>
> > Gary Cookson <gary@...> wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone have any idea which coolant the diesels should run. Mine is
> > in need of a change i think. What is in there looks decidedly murky?
> >
> > Cheers
> > Gary
> >
> >
> >
> > On 14/01/2010, at 12:46 PM, BenT Syncro wrote:
> >
> > > On Jan 13, 2010, at 4:11 PM, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@. ..>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > yep ... mine had the black cap when I bought my syncro ...
> > > >
> > > > I wonder how come it hadn't failed and how come AutoBahn Strecker in
> >
> > > > Sydney never changed it during a routine service? After all, service
> >
> > > > receipts I have show they added "green" coolant concentrate at every
> >
> > > > service so they had to take the black cap off! Just how good are
> > > > they??!!
> > > > Ken
> > >
> > > Well, they're using green coolant. How good can they be?
> > >
> > > On a side note, my former 1987 2.1 got a dose of fresh VW blue coolant
> >
> > > every couple of years. It managed 386K miles before I gave it up for
> > > an engine conversion.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > BenT
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Shopping Trolley Mechanic If It Exists, You'll Find it on SEEK
> http://clk.atdmt. com/NMN/go/ 157639755/ direct/01/
>
Sell your old one fast! Time for a new car?
--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> erm ... no one else is reading this ok ..........
>
>
>
> this stuff fallen off the back of a truck?
>
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: bencroft96@...
> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 09:32:44 +0000
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] G12+ coolant and synthetic oils
>
>
>
>
>
> Ken and group,I can get 1.5l containers of g12+ for $20,but I can also get 5l containers that should work out cheaper per litre.I will let you all know.
> In regards to the oil issue I use Nulon 10-40w full Synthetic engine oil and a VAG oil filter that is replaced every 10000 kms.Transaxle oil is genuine VW that cost heaps and was also sold in 1.5l I think.I can get these oils as well.
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > All,
> >
> >
> >
> > Ok lets talk pricing on G12+ VAG approved coolant concentrate.
> >
> >
> >
> > This normally comes in 1.5 litre plastic containers.
> >
> >
> >
> > Locally sourced, I've always paid $20 per container. Not unusual to buy 6 containers.
> >
> >
> >
> > Anyone got a cheaper source and/or comes in larger quantity containers for a cheaper per litre price?
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > From: plander@
> > Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 07:44:44 +1100
> > Subject: Re: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > G12+ (or G11 if you have leftovers)
> >
> > > Gary Cookson <gary@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Does anyone have any idea which coolant the diesels should run. Mine is
> > > in need of a change i think. What is in there looks decidedly murky?
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Gary
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 14/01/2010, at 12:46 PM, BenT Syncro wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Jan 13, 2010, at 4:11 PM, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > yep ... mine had the black cap when I bought my syncro ...
> > > > >
> > > > > I wonder how come it hadn't failed and how come AutoBahn Strecker in
> > >
> > > > > Sydney never changed it during a routine service? After all, service
> > >
> > > > > receipts I have show they added "green" coolant concentrate at every
> > >
> > > > > service so they had to take the black cap off! Just how good are
> > > > > they??!!
> > > > > Ken
> > > >
> > > > Well, they're using green coolant. How good can they be?
> > > >
> > > > On a side note, my former 1987 2.1 got a dose of fresh VW blue coolant
> > >
> > > > every couple of years. It managed 386K miles before I gave it up for
> > > > an engine conversion.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > > BenT
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________________
> > Shopping Trolley Mechanic If It Exists, You'll Find it on SEEK
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157639755/direct/01/
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Time for a new car? Sell your old one fast!
> http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157637060/direct/01/
>
> From your own hoses list, I'm mystified about hose 025 121 081G @
> $133.20. Can you tell me what that hose is all about and its location
> please? Can't see it on ETKA yet, Phill probably knows exactly.
Oh ok thanks ... the infamous pump pipe eh.
I wonder how many people have closely eyeballed this pipe, they sure do rust out.
I found mine rust spotting in quite a few places years ago and leaking at one of the bigger spots, back when I was going over the beast for the first time. Perhaps again, the "green" coolant at the time didn't help matters.
Touch wood I repaired mine with POR15 products and no sign of any further deterioration since.
Just another on the long list of repair/replacement items for the T3, but not insurmountable.
Cheers.
Ken
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: plander@optusnet.com.au
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 08:21:54 +1100
Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
> From your own hoses list, I'm mystified about hose 025 121 081G @
> $133.20. Can you tell me what that hose is all about and its location
> please? Can't see it on ETKA yet, Phill probably knows exactly.
Start searching NOW! Search for properties that match your lifestyle!
Phill,
My original 14” wheels are stamped:
251 601 027
6J X 14H2 ET30
Les
From:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of plander@optusnet.com.au
Sent: 14 January 2010 12:18
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: RE:
[Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
I don't no where you got that offset from.
> Les Harris <leslieharris@ optusnet. com.au>wrote:
>
> Phill,
>
> This raises a question about ETKA versions. I have at least two
> differing
> versions but no indication of version number. I found this when we were
> talking about Syncro wheel offsets - which I will come back to later.
>
> Les
> Stainless steel is preferred, but mild steel will get you out oftrouble.
> Copper, brass or aluminium will also do.there
>
> Garry has made custom coolant pipes for marine applications, and
> reccommends 304 food-grade s/steel for durability.
>
> Does anybody have any feedback on the stainless steel pipes? Are
> any downsides? Do they need insulation in extreme climates?Just because it is "stainless steel" does not mean that it is corrosion
>
resistant at all. In fact it can cause corrosion in dissimilar metals.
In 1970 the NSW government bought some railway carriages that were
stainless steel bodies welded to a carbon steel frame. When the first of
next series of carriages were delivered in 1976, they cleaned up one of
the old carriages for photographic purposes and it was noticed that
there was an unusual amount of corrosion where the body met the frame.
There were no signs of corrosion anywhere else.
Unlike aircraft there are no periodical safety inspections on trains. In
2001 while some floor repairs were being done to a 1970 carriage, they
found severe structural corrosion in the frame where it joins the body.
All other carriages were checked straight away and all of the 1970
carriages were found to be in an unsafe condition and were withdrawn
from service and scrapped. There were no signs of corrosion on any other
types of carriages.
> Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> Phill,
>
> My original 14" wheels are stamped:
>
> 251 601 027
>
> 6J X 14H2 ET30
>
> Les
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> plander@optusnet.com.au
> Sent: 14 January 2010 12:18
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: RE: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
>
>
>
> I don't no where you got that offset from.
>
> > Les Harris <leslieharris@ <mailto:leslieharris%40optusnet.com.au>
> optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> >
> > Phill,
> >
> > This raises a question about ETKA versions. I have at least two
> > differing
> > versions but no indication of version number. I found this when we
> were
> > talking about Syncro wheel offsets - which I will come back to later.
> >
> > Les
That was in answer to your question as to where I got the offset from.
From:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of plander@optusnet.com.au
Sent: 16 January 2010 12:37
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE:
[Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
Yes, that's the normal Aussie wheel.
> Les Harris <leslieharris@ optusnet. com.au>wrote:
>__
> Phill,
>
> My original 14" wheels are stamped:
>
> 251 601 027
>
> 6J X 14H2 ET30
>
> Les
That wasn't the off set questioned, it was the 16" wheel offset.
> Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> That was in answer to your question as to where I got the offset from.
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> plander@optusnet.com.au
> Sent: 16 January 2010 12:37
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
>
>
>
>
>
> Yes, that's the normal Aussie wheel.
>
> > Les Harris <leslieharris@ <mailto:leslieharris%40optusnet.com.au>
> optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> >
> > Phill,
> >
> > My original 14" wheels are stamped:
> >
> > 251 601 027
> >
> > 6J X 14H2 ET30
> >
> > Les
> __
Phill,
I have it somewhere and I still have to find it. I can’t do that until I have overcome several severe computer problems; I have one running well but am still fixing the other in regular use.
Les
From:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of plander@optusnet.com.au
Sent: 16 January 2010 13:13
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE: RE:
[Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
Les,
That wasn't the off set questioned, it was the 16" wheel offset.
,___
Goto: http://www.busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=251121397LPR
Ken
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: syncro@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 21:27:03 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
Sent from my mobile device
On Jan 13, 2010, at 8:16 PM, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail. com> wrote:
.... a high grade flexible tubing ... possibly hydraulic hose? Not
sure. BenT might have more current info on this.
Ken,
As far as I know, stainless is the way most people are going. The long
plastic pipes have been coming from SA all these years. Mow I
understand the supply is very low and NLA in some markets. There are
now 2-3 competitors in the SS pipe market. The Germans are making
their own version which I believe GoWesty and possibly, VanCafe is
offering. I know the importer personally. I am not sure where BusDepot
gets their pipes. A privateer called Terry Kay on Illinois has been
making SS replacement pipes earlier than the commercial vendors as far
ad I know. He sells one and two piece kits as the other vendors. He
even offers a higher grade SS up to foodgrade. Seems a bit overkill to
me.
Unitially, all these vendors differed in how the ends are done.
Thankfully, they all seem to be have moved to the ridges ends which
holds the hose clamps better.
Beside the pumps, there is a group buy being organized to manufacture
silicon hoses. Right now the focus is on inline-3 powerplants like the
TDI. Given enough demand they may offer to WBX hoses as well.
BenT
>
Learn how Video chat with Windows Live Messenger
Seems like I might have been too hard on the GoWesty repair kit. I'm glad it worked.
025 121 081G is the steel pipe between on the passenger-side of the engine bay that runs between the water pump and the thermostat housing. They don't seem to rot out so much in Australia where we don't use salt on icy roads like they do in parts of Europe and the U.S. - although they probably would if the wrong coolant was used.
By the way I must apologise for the error in my last post. The I.D. of hose 251 121 102 is 38mm or 1 1/2 inch. It is about 270 mm or just under 11" long. Gates do a flexible coolant hose that should be ideal [although I haven't tried it];
Gates Vulco Flex coolant hose P/N 26412 38mm X 267mm which costs around $20. It's a good quality bit of gear.
You're idea of compiling a hose source list is a beauty. I've got a couple of other substitutes scrawled into the Bentley Bible, written with a broken fingernail dipped in oil ...
I'll let you know what they are.
Cheers, Roger [Beetle] Bayley.
--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> Roger,
> Haha you're a glutton for punishment! :-)
> I just had another look at my GoWesty kit repaired joint. Honestly I can't remember now what exactly I did. I had a problem with only one of the rear joints, I vaguely recall resolving the problem "my way" but still using the brass insert. I do understand the principle of the spring clips being able to contract and expand as required but I made a unilateral decision to go with screw ups, thinking about trying to stop this repair joint pulling apart under pressure. I just had another poke around at the joint to doublecheck and it's dry as a bone, screw ups don't need tightening, no sign of leaking whatever, rubber looks undamaged and very solid joint ... no way this joint is coming apart! Maybe your plastic pipe end was more damaged than mine. So I still have the unused kit parts here for a "rainy" day.
>
>
>
> My coolant hose sourcing project continues as a work in progress. I'm having a go at compiling a comparison hose pricing list from a number of sources ... interesting to see how the pricing varies between suppliers. Still early days. I only wish I/other members could buy these hoses at wholesale. Anyone here got that sort of access?
>
>
>
> From your own hoses list, I'm mystified about hose 025 121 081G @ $133.20. Can you tell me what that hose is all about and its location please? Can't see it on ETKA yet, Phill probably knows exactly. Expensive eh.
>
>
>
> Roger, if you're after a bead roller, just ask Hartmut. Heh I reckon he must have every piece of high and low tech equipment and machinery known to man and in the unlikely event he hasn't got it, he's clever enough to knock one up at a moments notice. There's nothing stopping this guy. Prove me wrong. I'd be asking him if I was you ok.
>
>
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: Gullyraker@...
> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 06:30:14 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
>
>
>
>
>
> G'day Ken
> I bought the Gowesty coolant pipe repair kit but I wasn't impressed. The metal sleeve was inserted in the rubber hose which was slipped back over the damaged plastic pipe until they butted together, and secured with two hose clamps. [see http://www.gowesty.com/library_article.php?id=113 ]. I took it down to the radiator and muffler shop for some expert advice and they weren't impressed either. The only dubious advantage was that it offered rigidity to the connection, but didn't re-inforce the broken plastic pipe or replace the rusted steel insert.
>
> We weren't game to tighten the hose clamp onto a brittle plastic pipe without a steel insert. I reckon that the Gowesty repair kit is a light and compact bit of gear that could be carried in case of emergency, but I would only rely on it as a temporary repair. However if you have had a good run with it Ken then it couldn't be too bad.
>
> We came up with a simple solution that worked well. We just removed the old steel insert, found some muffler pipe that fit, and expanded one end of it to the same O.D. as the plastic pipe. It was about 60 mm long. We pushed the narrow end into the plastic pipe, slipped the rubber hose over the big end and attached it with two clamps - one on the steel, the other on the reinforced plastic.
>
> This system could be used to replace any length of damaged plastic pipe. I now carry a spare length that can be cut down to suit. It might come in handy as a donger one day.
>
> Stainless steel is preferred, but mild steel will get you out of trouble. Copper, brass or aluminium will also do.
>
> If you don't have access to a muffler shop with a pipe expander you could braize or solder a sleeve around the insert pipe.
>
> Garry from the radiator & muffler centre is a sheet-metal worker by trade and will make stainless steel pipes like those offered on overseas web sites, using my 4WD or 2WD T3 pipes as a pattern, but we are still looking for someone who can sell or lend us a bead roller small enough to fit 1 1/4" pipe. This is necessary to form the lip at the end of the pipe so the hose clamp can't slip off. If anyone has access to a bead roller we could probably do a job lot.
>
> Garry has made custom coolant pipes for marine applications, and reccommends 304 food-grade s/steel for durability.
>
> I was talking to Adrian Muller a while ago and he was organising a local supplier for s/s pipes.
>
> Does anybody have any feedback on the stainless steel pipes? Are there any downsides? Do they need insulation in extreme climates?
>
> By the way, when replacing hoses on plastic pipe make sure the inserts are seated properly. I found out the hard way when I glanced at the temp gauge while climbing a steep grade in G gear with a full load on board. I was surprised to see the needle dropping. The coolant level had dropped below the temp. sender in the radiator, and fooled it completely. We pulled over with steam gushing out of the rear wheel arch on the driver's side. When it cooled down it looked like the hose junction was securely clamped, but I had clamped the insert, which slipped out of the pipe. Doh!
>
> When I eventually replaced the bulging hose [from the black plastic distribution box that lives at the corner of the engine compartment nearest the driver's seat to the outside plastic pipe, part number 251 121 102], I had to find something else to fit; they weren't available. It seems that everyone has worked out that you don't need to pay fifty bucks for a factory hose with a slight bend in the end when a straight bit will do. I bought some 1 1/4" [32 mm] hose for less than $10. If you're really fussy you could make the steel insert described above with a slight bend in it.
>
> Cheers for now, Roger [Beetle] Bayley.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Time for a new car? Sell your old one fast!
> http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157637060/direct/01/
>
Yes I'd be interested to add to the list of known alternatives for 18 different syncro coolant hoses, especially if they are cheaper. Not easy but as they say ... many hands make light work. Let me know what you have please, make and model.
Cheers.
Ken
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: Gullyraker@aol.com
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 07:31:01 +0000
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
Seems like I might have been too hard on the GoWesty repair kit. I'm glad it worked.
025 121 081G is the steel pipe between on the passenger-side of the engine bay that runs between the water pump and the thermostat housing. They don't seem to rot out so much in Australia where we don't use salt on icy roads like they do in parts of Europe and the U.S. - although they probably would if the wrong coolant was used.
By the way I must apologise for the error in my last post. The I.D. of hose 251 121 102 is 38mm or 1 1/2 inch. It is about 270 mm or just under 11" long. Gates do a flexible coolant hose that should be ideal [although I haven't tried it];
Gates Vulco Flex coolant hose P/N 26412 38mm X 267mm which costs around $20. It's a good quality bit of gear.
You're idea of compiling a hose source list is a beauty. I've got a couple of other substitutes scrawled into the Bentley Bible, written with a broken fingernail dipped in oil ...
I'll let you know what they are.
Cheers, Roger [Beetle] Bayley.
--- In Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@. ..> wrote:
>
>
> Roger,
> Haha you're a glutton for punishment! :-)
> I just had another look at my GoWesty kit repaired joint. Honestly I can't remember now what exactly I did. I had a problem with only one of the rear joints, I vaguely recall resolving the problem "my way" but still using the brass insert. I do understand the principle of the spring clips being able to contract and expand as required but I made a unilateral decision to go with screw ups, thinking about trying to stop this repair joint pulling apart under pressure. I just had another poke around at the joint to doublecheck and it's dry as a bone, screw ups don't need tightening, no sign of leaking whatever, rubber looks undamaged and very solid joint ... no way this joint is coming apart! Maybe your plastic pipe end was more damaged than mine. So I still have the unused kit parts here for a "rainy" day.
>
>
>
> My coolant hose sourcing project continues as a work in progress. I'm having a go at compiling a comparison hose pricing list from a number of sources ... interesting to see how the pricing varies between suppliers. Still early days. I only wish I/other members could buy these hoses at wholesale. Anyone here got that sort of access?
>
>
>
> From your own hoses list, I'm mystified about hose 025 121 081G @ $133.20. Can you tell me what that hose is all about and its location please? Can't see it on ETKA yet, Phill probably knows exactly. Expensive eh.
>
>
>
> Roger, if you're after a bead roller, just ask Hartmut. Heh I reckon he must have every piece of high and low tech equipment and machinery known to man and in the unlikely event he hasn't got it, he's clever enough to knock one up at a moments notice. There's nothing stopping this guy. Prove me wrong. I'd be asking him if I was you ok.
>
>
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
> From: Gullyraker@. ..
> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 06:30:14 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
>
>
>
>
>
> G'day Ken
> I bought the Gowesty coolant pipe repair kit but I wasn't impressed. The metal sleeve was inserted in the rubber hose which was slipped back over the damaged plastic pipe until they butted together, and secured with two hose clamps. [see http://www.gowesty. com/library_ article.php? id=113 ]. I took it down to the radiator and muffler shop for some expert advice and they weren't impressed either. The only dubious advantage was that it offered rigidity to the connection, but didn't re-inforce the broken plastic pipe or replace the rusted steel insert.
>
> We weren't game to tighten the hose clamp onto a brittle plastic pipe without a steel insert. I reckon that the Gowesty repair kit is a light and compact bit of gear that could be carried in case of emergency, but I would only rely on it as a temporary repair. However if you have had a good run with it Ken then it couldn't be too bad.
>
> We came up with a simple solution that worked well. We just removed the old steel insert, found some muffler pipe that fit, and expanded one end of it to the same O.D. as the plastic pipe. It was about 60 mm long. We pushed the narrow end into the plastic pipe, slipped the rubber hose over the big end and attached it with two clamps - one on the steel, the other on the reinforced plastic.
>
> This system could be used to replace any length of damaged plastic pipe. I now carry a spare length that can be cut down to suit. It might come in handy as a donger one day.
>
> Stainless steel is preferred, but mild steel will get you out of trouble. Copper, brass or aluminium will also do.
>
> If you don't have access to a muffler shop with a pipe expander you could braize or solder a sleeve around the insert pipe.
>
> Garry from the radiator & muffler centre is a sheet-metal worker by trade and will make stainless steel pipes like those offered on overseas web sites, using my 4WD or 2WD T3 pipes as a pattern, but we are still looking for someone who can sell or lend us a bead roller small enough to fit 1 1/4" pipe. This is necessary to form the lip at the end of the pipe so the hose clamp can't slip off. If anyone has access to a bead roller we could probably do a job lot.
>
> Garry has made custom coolant pipes for marine applications, and reccommends 304 food-grade s/steel for durability.
>
> I was talking to Adrian Muller a while ago and he was organising a local supplier for s/s pipes.
>
> Does anybody have any feedback on the stainless steel pipes? Are there any downsides? Do they need insulation in extreme climates?
>
> By the way, when replacing hoses on plastic pipe make sure the inserts are seated properly. I found out the hard way when I glanced at the temp gauge while climbing a steep grade in G gear with a full load on board. I was surprised to see the needle dropping. The coolant level had dropped below the temp. sender in the radiator, and fooled it completely. We pulled over with steam gushing out of the rear wheel arch on the driver's side. When it cooled down it looked like the hose junction was securely clamped, but I had clamped the insert, which slipped out of the pipe. Doh!
>
> When I eventually replaced the bulging hose [from the black plastic distribution box that lives at the corner of the engine compartment nearest the driver's seat to the outside plastic pipe, part number 251 121 102], I had to find something else to fit; they weren't available. It seems that everyone has worked out that you don't need to pay fifty bucks for a factory hose with a slight bend in the end when a straight bit will do. I bought some 1 1/4" [32 mm] hose for less than $10. If you're really fussy you could make the steel insert described above with a slight bend in it.
>
> Cheers for now, Roger [Beetle] Bayley.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Time for a new car? Sell your old one fast!
> http://clk.atdmt. com/NMN/go/ 157637060/ direct/01/
>
Browse profiles for FREE View photos of singles in your area!
How about you mark the part numbers of the syncro specific hoses in bold or colours etc. as the these are more the problem ones.
Phill
> Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Roger and ALL,
>
>
>
> Just an update concerning work-in-progress on rubber coolant hoses for
> the T3 syncro. My objective being to identify as many available
> substitutes as possible and sourced from Australia-wide auto parts
> retail outlets .. hopefully cheaper as well.
>
>
>
> I started out with a short list of much cheaper Dayco brand substitutes
> gleaned from the US syncro forum, hoping to build on that, only to
> discover Dayco don't sell coolant hoses in Australia. Back to the
> drawing board. I've yet to learn if the 2 major Australian suppliers of
> hoses ... Gates and Mackay, have equivalents. I might get lucky and
> uncover a cross reference chart.
>
>
>
> I'm presently at the stage where I need to have confirmed the internal
> diameters at each end of the 18 different hoses. Idea being I or anyone
> can then search for the exact diameter equivalents and/or secondly, some
> others at least as close as possible.
>
>
>
> To this end, I need your help please.
>
>
>
> Please find attached here a work-in-progress coolant hose chart. It's
> pretty much self explanatory. Essentially what I need is feedback from
> anyone who would measure the ends of new SPARE hoses they do have, then
> compare these findings with the hose end measurements I have marked on
> the chart in red. I need to be told if any of these marked dimensions
> are incorrect. Not as important but also feel free to supply the correct
> measurements of the ones with red question marks.
>
>
>
> Roger, I'm still waiting with baited breath the substitutes you have
> uncovered and written down somewhere with a knib dipped in dirty engine
> oil. Any luck so far or has your SS coolant pipes project got your
> attention sidetracked?
>
>
>
> As I said before, many hands make light work. If I can achieve something
> at all useful to the group with this, then being stuck anywhere around
> Oz with a busted coolant hose but equipped with an equivalents ready
> reckoner may then be not so daunting.
>
>
>
> Any glitches I've made, please advise ok. Thanks in advance. Cheers.
>
>
>
> Ken
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Roger,
> >
> > Yes I'd be interested to add to the list of known alternatives for 18
> different syncro coolant hoses, especially if they are cheaper. Not easy
> but as they say ... many hands make light work. Let me know what you
> have please, make and model.
> > Cheers.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > From: Gullyraker@...
> > Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 07:31:01 +0000
> > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Coolant rubber hoses
> >
> >
> > You're idea of compiling a hose source list is a beauty. I've got a
> couple of other substitutes scrawled into the Bentley Bible, written
> with a broken fingernail dipped in oil ...
> > I'll let you know what they are.
> >
> > Cheers, Roger [Beetle] Bayley.
> >
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Search for properties that match your lifestyle! Start searching NOW!
> http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/