Prestige AC system

[unclekenz (Ken Garratt)]

All,

I am about to embark on the refurbishment of the erm ... "much loved" Prestige AC system in my syncro. Touch wood. Wish me luck.

Please see the attached files re the new Zexel compressor that will be swapped in for the 20yo Sanden 709 as well as the pdf fluid volume spec files for Vanagon AC systems. I suspect these Vanagon fluid volumes are not relevant to our Prestige AC system, merely notable. Agreed?

One thing I am unsure of is, aside from the refrigerant oil already in the new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil is added to the system for other components during refurbishment?

Putting the question another way, ignoring the refrigerant oil volume included in any new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil was added to the system for other components during assembly as specified for the original Oz Prestige AC system in our vans? TIA.

Cheers.

Ken 

[nerdnetty (Peter Wilson)]

Ken, I did hear somewhere that the refrig Gas has some kind of lubricant properties incorperated? But then most facts are usually just someones opinion.
On the subject of costs for maintaining our Syncros? Thought i would add
Has anyone rebuilt a toyo Pajero os Land Rover A/C driveline engine etc and if they have had a profesional job done by specialists < as we require> im sure they too would feel their Wallet was not big enough!!! @#$%@! timing belts and spark plugs that require plenim removal and sometimes worse make me think the Syncro is cheap!!! to maintain & repair.
Sorry to go against the pack here and i know some have really been getting into some serious expense as our beasts turn 21.
Put the shoe on the other foot and imagine getting youe BMW X5 wet up to the seat base and its a write off or if you blow the motor or gearbox just shot it like Elvis used to.
Good luck with the A/C and look foward to hearing if they can work at all

Best Regards Pete
ps
Not to mention we can draw many parts from 2wd Transporters at ridiculiously cheap prices comparativly

---

>

[syncro (Phill)]

It's just that some of the forum members here have short arms and long pockets.

> On the subject of costs for maintaining our Syncros? Thought i would add
>
> Has anyone rebuilt a toyo Pajero os Land Rover A/C driveline engine etc
> and if they have had a profesional job done by specialists < as we
> require> im sure they too would feel their Wallet was not big enough!!!

[gregespo73 (Greg Esposito)]

Ken unless you are putting an air curtain behind the driver or an additional evaporator in the rear, save your money. The evaporator size and fan capacity are just insufficient for a five metre long box. If the in dash thing would have worked VW would have done it. Instead they put a massive duct from rear to front. I guess your lucky as from what I understand you probably won't have rear passengers which to me says go the plastic curtain. Greg E

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

All,

I am about to embark on the refurbishment of the erm ... "much loved" Prestige AC system in my syncro. Touch wood. Wish me luck.

Please see the attached files re the new Zexel compressor that will be swapped in for the 20yo Sanden 709 as well as the pdf fluid volume spec files for Vanagon AC systems. I suspect these Vanagon fluid volumes are not relevant to our Prestige AC system, merely notable. Agreed?

One thing I am unsure of is, aside from the refrigerant oil already in the new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil is added to the system for other components during refurbishment?

Putting the question another way, ignoring the refrigerant oil volume included in any new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil was added to the system for other components during assembly as specified for the original Oz Prestige AC system in our vans? TIA.

Cheers.

Ken 

[unclekenz (Ken Garratt)]

Greg,

I presently can't agree with your contentions, except for the idea of a curtain behind the front seats. Graham Adams has installed one, apparently works well.

I'm happy to give the refurbishment a try, encouraged by a detailed post in 2008 from Yurik in Perth, as follows ......

Ken,

My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it to be ineffective. At one point when a re-gas was needed, I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling significantly.  Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the new engine (2003)  came with a compressor which was retro fitted to the existing system and this combination produced very crisp cold air, a huge improvement.  I have come to the conclusion that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have.  One of my friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac.

With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be modified and new hose connectors installed to suit the compressor used.  All other components remain.

If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the existing bracket then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade.  The remaining things are to get new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX valve and receiver-drier.

I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring connectors. Any decrease of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be made up by using longer Al tails on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the components in the system are re-used i.e., condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.

I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and ask them to do a re-gas. Make sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and contaminants. Have a pressure test using Nitrogen gas and as well, a vacuum leak down test. Make sure they use extra oil because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably inject a UV sensitive dye with the R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to return to them after approx. 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.

My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one would expect a slow reduction of efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of the gas through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks.

For the moment I am keeping cool.

Regards

Yurik       21/11/2008

So thanks very much again Yurik.

This leaves me then with my original questions the subject of this post, if anyone has something specific to add along those lines, I'd much appreciate it asap. TIA.

Cheers.

Ken

---

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Ken unless you are putting an air curtain behind the driver or an additional evaporator in the rear, save your money. The evaporator size and fan capacity are just insufficient for a five metre long box. If the in dash thing would have worked VW would have done it. Instead they put a massive duct from rear to front. I guess your lucky as from what I understand you probably won't have rear passengers which to me says go the plastic curtain. Greg E

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

All,

I am about to embark on the refurbishment of the erm ... "much loved" Prestige AC system in my syncro. Touch wood. Wish me luck.

Please see the attached files re the new Zexel compressor that will be swapped in for the 20yo Sanden 709 as well as the pdf fluid volume spec files for Vanagon AC systems. I suspect these Vanagon fluid volumes are not relevant to our Prestige AC system, merely notable. Agreed?

One thing I am unsure of is, aside from the refrigerant oil already in the new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil is added to the system for other components during refurbishment?

Putting the question another way, ignoring the refrigerant oil volume included in any new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil was added to the system for other components during assembly as specified for the original Oz Prestige AC system in our vans? TIA.

Cheers.

Ken 

[syncroaustralia]

I ran a Tarago for over 500,000km (bought new) and it was a good vehicle except for one very serious shortcoming.  

The engine sat between the front seats in an inverted well.  In summer, the amount of heat the radiated through was absolutely preposterous.  It was so bad that, after an hour’s driving in summer, the seat slides got so hot that they would burn the incautious hand! 

It had dual air and the only way to get a tolerable level of cool in the front was to build a divider behind the engine hump.   Originally, I built one on the hump but the front-only air wasn’t able to cope with the engine heat.  The second divider was placed behind the hump so that both front and rear air fed the front compartment.  That worked quite well but it was a lot of work to correct something that should never have been allowed to happen in the first place!

Les

 

---

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Ken Garratt
Sent: 24 November 2011 16:01
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

Greg,

I presently can't agree with your contentions, except for the idea of a curtain behind the front seats. Graham Adams has installed one, apparently works well.

[gregespo73 (Greg Esposito)]

Ken, I have a "modern" compressor. The system was retrofitted to r134a in 2008. The air temp is a constant 1-3 degrees at the vents. If there was a fault with my system it just would not cycle consistanty at this temp. There is just not enough air coming out to cool the cabin. Mark was telling me at the dotvw that he had a rear evap fitted. Does Yurik/yourself have the big vent box on top of the dash? Mine employs the original face vents plus only one extra face vent in the middle of the dash next to the radio. It is possible Yuriks has more air flow than mine. Also I have not made any attempt to seal the cabin (carbon monoxide vent and fridge vent). I think alot of the cold air escapes or is diluted through these air leaks. I think the curtain is a no brainer if you dont have rear passengers why cool the rest of the cabin? I am not trying to put you off your project just saying after you get your standard presige system working you may need to do some extra work to make it comfortable in the cabin. Good luck. Greg E

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Greg,

I presently can't agree with your contentions, except for the idea of a curtain behind the front seats. Graham Adams has installed one, apparently works well.

I'm happy to give the refurbishment a try, encouraged by a detailed post in 2008 from Yurik in Perth, as follows ......

Ken,

My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it to be ineffective. At one point when a re-gas was needed, I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling significantly.  Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the new engine (2003)  came with a compressor which was retro fitted to the existing system and this combination produced very crisp cold air, a huge improvement.  I have come to the conclusion that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have.  One of my friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac.

With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be modified and new hose connectors installed to suit the compressor used.  All other components remain.

If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the existing bracket then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade.  The remaining things are to get new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX valve and receiver-drier.

I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring connectors. Any decrease of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be made up by using longer Al tails on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the components in the system are re-used i.e., condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.

I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and ask them to do a re-gas. Make sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and contaminants. Have a pressure test using Nitrogen gas and as well, a vacuum leak down test. Make sure they use extra oil because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably inject a UV sensitive dye with the R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to return to them after approx. 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.

My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one would expect a slow reduction of efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of the gas through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks.

For the moment I am keeping cool.

Regards

Yurik       21/11/2008

So thanks very much again Yurik.

This leaves me then with my original questions the subject of this post, if anyone has something specific to add along those lines, I'd much appreciate it asap. TIA.

Cheers.

Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Ken unless you are putting an air curtain behind the driver or an additional evaporator in the rear, save your money. The evaporator size and fan capacity are just insufficient for a five metre long box. If the in dash thing would have worked VW would have done it. Instead they put a massive duct from rear to front. I guess your lucky as from what I understand you probably won't have rear passengers which to me says go the plastic curtain. Greg E

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

All,

I am about to embark on the refurbishment of the erm ... "much loved" Prestige AC system in my syncro. Touch wood. Wish me luck.

Please see the attached files re the new Zexel compressor that will be swapped in for the 20yo Sanden 709 as well as the pdf fluid volume spec files for Vanagon AC systems. I suspect these Vanagon fluid volumes are not relevant to our Prestige AC system, merely notable. Agreed?

One thing I am unsure of is, aside from the refrigerant oil already in the new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil is added to the system for other components during refurbishment?

Putting the question another way, ignoring the refrigerant oil volume included in any new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil was added to the system for other components during assembly as specified for the original Oz Prestige AC system in our vans? TIA.

Cheers.

Ken 

[unclekenz (Ken Garratt)]

Greg,

Yurik and I both have a Trakka camper and hence also the retro fitted Prestige AC system. I'm assuming Prestige installed only one model of in-dash evaporator and that Yuriks evaporator is the same as mine. I have seen elsewhere what you describe as a "taller vent box", are you suggesting this model is a Prestige install? Mine is not this taller one.

Yurik doesn't mention he has either a cabin screen nor fridge vent. I don't have either. Yet it appears he's satisfied with his refurbished Prestige AC system, on that basis I'm optimistic.

Given the cool air outlets are mostly on the passenger side, makes for a contented spouse. Drivers may simply have to grimace and bare it. A prudent exercise in diplomacy?

Cheers.

Ken 

---

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 22:25:24 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Ken, I have a "modern" compressor. The system was retrofitted to r134a in 2008. The air temp is a constant 1-3 degrees at the vents. If there was a fault with my system it just would not cycle consistanty at this temp. There is just not enough air coming out to cool the cabin. Mark was telling me at the dotvw that he had a rear evap fitted. Does Yurik/yourself have the big vent box on top of the dash? Mine employs the original face vents plus only one extra face vent in the middle of the dash next to the radio. It is possible Yuriks has more air flow than mine. Also I have not made any attempt to seal the cabin (carbon monoxide vent and fridge vent). I think alot of the cold air escapes or is diluted through these air leaks. I think the curtain is a no brainer if you dont have rear passengers why cool the rest of the cabin? I am not trying to put you off your project just saying after you get your standard presige system working you may need to do some extra work to make it comfortable in the cabin. Good luck. Greg E

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Greg,

I presently can't agree with your contentions, except for the idea of a curtain behind the front seats. Graham Adams has installed one, apparently works well.

I'm happy to give the refurbishment a try, encouraged by a detailed post in 2008 from Yurik in Perth, as follows ......

Ken,

My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it to be ineffective. At one point when a re-gas was needed, I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling significantly.  Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the new engine (2003)  came with a compressor which was retro fitted to the existing system and this combination produced very crisp cold air, a huge improvement.  I have come to the conclusion that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have.  One of my friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac.

With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be modified and new hose connectors installed to suit the compressor used.  All other components remain.

If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the existing bracket then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade.  The remaining things are to get new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX valve and receiver-drier.

I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring connectors. Any decrease of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be made up by using longer Al tails on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the components in the system are re-used i.e., condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.

I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and ask them to do a re-gas. Make sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and contaminants. Have a pressure test using Nitrogen gas and as well, a vacuum leak down test. Make sure they use extra oil because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably inject a UV sensitive dye with the R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to return to them after approx. 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.

My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one would expect a slow reduction of efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of the gas through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks.

For the moment I am keeping cool.

Regards

Yurik       21/11/2008

So thanks very much again Yurik.

This leaves me then with my original questions the subject of this post, if anyone has something specific to add along those lines, I'd much appreciate it asap. TIA.

Cheers.

Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Ken unless you are putting an air curtain behind the driver or an additional evaporator in the rear, save your money. The evaporator size and fan capacity are just insufficient for a five metre long box. If the in dash thing would have worked VW would have done it. Instead they put a massive duct from rear to front. I guess your lucky as from what I understand you probably won't have rear passengers which to me says go the plastic curtain. Greg E

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

All,

I am about to embark on the refurbishment of the erm ... "much loved" Prestige AC system in my syncro. Touch wood. Wish me luck.

Please see the attached files re the new Zexel compressor that will be swapped in for the 20yo Sanden 709 as well as the pdf fluid volume spec files for Vanagon AC systems. I suspect these Vanagon fluid volumes are not relevant to our Prestige AC system, merely notable. Agreed?

One thing I am unsure of is, aside from the refrigerant oil already in the new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil is added to the system for other components during refurbishment?

Putting the question another way, ignoring the refrigerant oil volume included in any new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil was added to the system for other components during assembly as specified for the original Oz Prestige AC system in our vans? TIA.

Cheers.

Ken 

[yurikorlowsky]

Greg

My Prestige ac probably has more air flow as the unit sits on top of the dash and has 5 vents blowing into the cabin. See attached photo of the unit, with red Kimberly dust in the vents from our recent trip to the NW.

Yurik

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greg esposito
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 2:25 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

 

Ken, I have a "modern" compressor. The system was retrofitted to r134a in 2008. The air temp is a constant 1-3 degrees at the vents. If there was a fault with my system it just would not cycle consistanty at this temp. There is just not enough air coming out to cool the cabin. Mark was telling me at the dotvw that he had a rear evap fitted. Does Yurik/yourself have the big vent box on top of the dash? Mine employs the original face vents plus only one extra face vent in the middle of the dash next to the radio. It is possible Yuriks has more air flow than mine. Also I have not made any attempt to seal the cabin (carbon monoxide vent and fridge vent). I think alot of the cold air escapes or is diluted through these air leaks. I think the curtain is a no brainer if you dont have rear passengers why cool the rest of the cabin? I am not trying to put you off your project just saying after you get your standard presige system working you may need to do some extra work to make it comfortable in the cabin. Good luck. Greg E

 

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Greg,

I presently can't agree with your contentions, except for the idea of a curtain behind the front seats. Graham Adams has installed one, apparently works well.

 

I'm happy to give the refurbishment a try, encouraged by a detailed post in 2008 from Yurik in Perth, as follows ......

 

Ken,

My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it to be ineffective. At one point when a re-gas was needed, I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling significantly.  Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the new engine (2003)  came with a compressor which was retro fitted to the existing system and this combination produced very crisp cold air, a huge improvement.  I have come to the conclusion that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have.  One of my friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac.

With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be modified and new hose connectors installed to suit the compressor used.  All other components remain.

If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the existing bracket then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade.  The remaining things are to get new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX valve and receiver-drier.

I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring connectors. Any decrease of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be made up by using longer Al tails on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the components in the system are re-used i.e., condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.

I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and ask them to do a re-gas. Make sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and contaminants. Have a pressure test using Nitrogen gas and as well, a vacuum leak down test. Make sure they use extra oil because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably inject a UV sensitive dye with the R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to return to them after approx. 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.

My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one would expect a slow reduction of efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of the gas through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks.

For the moment I am keeping cool.

Regards

Yurik       21/11/2008

 

 

 

So thanks very much again Yurik.

This leaves me then with my original questions the subject of this post, if anyone has something specific to add along those lines, I'd much appreciate it asap. TIA.

 

Cheers.

Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

 

Ken unless you are putting an air curtain behind the driver or an additional evaporator in the rear, save your money. The evaporator size and fan capacity are just insufficient for a five metre long box. If the in dash thing would have worked VW would have done it. Instead they put a massive duct from rear to front. I guess your lucky as from what I understand you probably won't have rear passengers which to me says go the plastic curtain. Greg E

 

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

All,

 

I am about to embark on the refurbishment of the erm ... "much loved" Prestige AC system in my syncro. Touch wood. Wish me luck.

 

Please see the attached files re the new Zexel compressor that will be swapped in for the 20yo Sanden 709 as well as the pdf fluid volume spec files for Vanagon AC systems. I suspect these Vanagon fluid volumes are not relevant to our Prestige AC system, merely notable. Agreed?

 

One thing I am unsure of is, aside from the refrigerant oil already in the new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil is added to the system for other components during refurbishment?

 

Putting the question another way, ignoring the refrigerant oil volume included in any new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil was added to the system for other components during assembly as specified for the original Oz Prestige AC system in our vans? TIA.

 

Cheers.

 

Ken 

 

 

 

[gregespo73 (Greg Esposito)]

Thanks for chiming in Yurik. I thought you might have that vent. Does the cabin temp come down as much as in a modern car? Or is it more like it brings it down to a bearable level? I might have a go at opening up the vents or adding one through the ashtray like the U.S. behr systems had. Greg E

From: Yurik Orlowsky <yuriko@iinet.net.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 7:02 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Greg

My Prestige ac probably has more air flow as the unit sits on top of the dash and has 5 vents blowing into the cabin. See attached photo of the unit, with red Kimberly dust in the vents from our recent trip to the NW.

Yurik

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greg esposito
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 2:25 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

 

Ken, I have a "modern" compressor. The system was retrofitted to r134a in 2008. The air temp is a constant 1-3 degrees at the vents. If there was a fault with my system it just would not cycle consistanty at this temp. There is just not enough air coming out to cool the cabin. Mark was telling me at the dotvw that he had a rear evap fitted. Does Yurik/yourself have the big vent box on top of the dash? Mine employs the original face vents plus only one extra face vent in the middle of the dash next to the radio. It is possible Yuriks has more air flow than mine. Also I have not made any attempt to seal the cabin (carbon monoxide vent and fridge vent). I think alot of the cold air escapes or is diluted through these air leaks. I think the curtain is a no brainer if you dont have rear passengers why cool the rest of the cabin? I am not trying to put you off your project just saying after you get your standard presige system working you may need to do some extra work to make it comfortable in the cabin. Good luck. Greg E

 

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Greg,

I presently can't agree with your contentions, except for the idea of a curtain behind the front seats. Graham Adams has installed one, apparently works well.

 

I'm happy to give the refurbishment a try, encouraged by a detailed post in 2008 from Yurik in Perth, as follows ......

 

Ken,

My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it to be ineffective. At one point when a re-gas was needed, I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling significantly.  Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the new engine (2003)  came with a compressor which was retro fitted to the existing system and this combination produced very crisp cold air, a huge improvement.  I have come to the conclusion that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have.  One of my friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac.

With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be modified and new hose connectors installed to suit the compressor used.  All other components remain.

If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the existing bracket then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade.  The remaining things are to get new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX valve and receiver-drier.

I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring connectors. Any decrease of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be made up by using longer Al tails on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the components in the system are re-used i.e., condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.

I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and ask them to do a re-gas. Make sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and contaminants. Have a pressure test using Nitrogen gas and as well, a vacuum leak down test. Make sure they use extra oil because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably inject a UV sensitive dye with the R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to return to them after approx. 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.

My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one would expect a slow reduction of efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of the gas through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks.

For the moment I am keeping cool.

Regards

Yurik       21/11/2008

 

 

 

So thanks very much again Yurik.

This leaves me then with my original questions the subject of this post, if anyone has something specific to add along those lines, I'd much appreciate it asap. TIA.

 

Cheers.

Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

 

Ken unless you are putting an air curtain behind the driver or an additional evaporator in the rear, save your money. The evaporator size and fan capacity are just insufficient for a five metre long box. If the in dash thing would have worked VW would have done it. Instead they put a massive duct from rear to front. I guess your lucky as from what I understand you probably won't have rear passengers which to me says go the plastic curtain. Greg E

 

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

All,

 

I am about to embark on the refurbishment of the erm ... "much loved" Prestige AC system in my syncro. Touch wood. Wish me luck.

 

Please see the attached files re the new Zexel compressor that will be swapped in for the 20yo Sanden 709 as well as the pdf fluid volume spec files for Vanagon AC systems. I suspect these Vanagon fluid volumes are not relevant to our Prestige AC system, merely notable. Agreed?

 

One thing I am unsure of is, aside from the refrigerant oil already in the new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil is added to the system for other components during refurbishment?

 

Putting the question another way, ignoring the refrigerant oil volume included in any new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil was added to the system for other components during assembly as specified for the original Oz Prestige AC system in our vans? TIA.

 

Cheers.

 

Ken 

 

 

 

 

[unclekenz (Ken Garratt)]

My on-dash unit looks the same as Yuriks. I have seen taller units in other syncros, don't know though what brand of install they are. 

Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 01:51:07 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Thanks for chiming in Yurik. I thought you might have that vent. Does the cabin temp come down as much as in a modern car? Or is it more like it brings it down to a bearable level? I might have a go at opening up the vents or adding one through the ashtray like the U.S. behr systems had. Greg E

From: Yurik Orlowsky <yuriko@iinet.net.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 7:02 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Greg

My Prestige ac probably has more air flow as the unit sits on top of the dash and has 5 vents blowing into the cabin. See attached photo of the unit, with red Kimberly dust in the vents from our recent trip to the NW.

Yurik

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greg esposito
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 2:25 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

 

Ken, I have a "modern" compressor. The system was retrofitted to r134a in 2008. The air temp is a constant 1-3 degrees at the vents. If there was a fault with my system it just would not cycle consistanty at this temp. There is just not enough air coming out to cool the cabin. Mark was telling me at the dotvw that he had a rear evap fitted. Does Yurik/yourself have the big vent box on top of the dash? Mine employs the original face vents plus only one extra face vent in the middle of the dash next to the radio. It is possible Yuriks has more air flow than mine. Also I have not made any attempt to seal the cabin (carbon monoxide vent and fridge vent). I think alot of the cold air escapes or is diluted through these air leaks. I think the curtain is a no brainer if you dont have rear passengers why cool the rest of the cabin? I am not trying to put you off your project just saying after you get your standard presige system working you may need to do some extra work to make it comfortable in the cabin. Good luck. Greg E

 

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Greg,

I presently can't agree with your contentions, except for the idea of a curtain behind the front seats. Graham Adams has installed one, apparently works well.

 

I'm happy to give the refurbishment a try, encouraged by a detailed post in 2008 from Yurik in Perth, as follows ......

 

Ken,

My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it to be ineffective. At one point when a re-gas was needed, I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling significantly.  Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the new engine (2003)  came with a compressor which was retro fitted to the existing system and this combination produced very crisp cold air, a huge improvement.  I have come to the conclusion that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have.  One of my friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac.

With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be modified and new hose connectors installed to suit the compressor used.  All other components remain.

If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the existing bracket then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade.  The remaining things are to get new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX valve and receiver-drier.

I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring connectors. Any decrease of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be made up by using longer Al tails on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the components in the system are re-used i.e., condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.

I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and ask them to do a re-gas. Make sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and contaminants. Have a pressure test using Nitrogen gas and as well, a vacuum leak down test. Make sure they use extra oil because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably inject a UV sensitive dye with the R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to return to them after approx. 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.

My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one would expect a slow reduction of efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of the gas through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks.

For the moment I am keeping cool.

Regards

Yurik       21/11/2008

 

 

 

So thanks very much again Yurik.

This leaves me then with my original questions the subject of this post, if anyone has something specific to add along those lines, I'd much appreciate it asap. TIA.

 

Cheers.

Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

 

Ken unless you are putting an air curtain behind the driver or an additional evaporator in the rear, save your money. The evaporator size and fan capacity are just insufficient for a five metre long box. If the in dash thing would have worked VW would have done it. Instead they put a massive duct from rear to front. I guess your lucky as from what I understand you probably won't have rear passengers which to me says go the plastic curtain. Greg E

 

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

All,

 

I am about to embark on the refurbishment of the erm ... "much loved" Prestige AC system in my syncro. Touch wood. Wish me luck.

 

Please see the attached files re the new Zexel compressor that will be swapped in for the 20yo Sanden 709 as well as the pdf fluid volume spec files for Vanagon AC systems. I suspect these Vanagon fluid volumes are not relevant to our Prestige AC system, merely notable. Agreed?

 

One thing I am unsure of is, aside from the refrigerant oil already in the new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil is added to the system for other components during refurbishment?

 

Putting the question another way, ignoring the refrigerant oil volume included in any new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil was added to the system for other components during assembly as specified for the original Oz Prestige AC system in our vans? TIA.

 

Cheers.

 

Ken 

 

 

 

 

[bencroft96 (Ben Croft)]

I have Prestidge AC,and I have the same AC vents as Yurik and Ken.
I hope to get my AC running before Xmas.Yuriks comments on his AC, has given me hope that one day,I may be able to drive in coolness and peacefulness(whingingless).
BTW,I have a Prestidge compressor if someone wants one.
BenC

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> My on-dash unit looks the same as Yuriks. I have seen taller units in other syncros, don't know though what brand of install they are. Ken
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: gregespo73@...
> Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 01:51:07 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks for chiming in Yurik. I thought you might have that vent. Does the cabin temp come down as much as in a modern car? Or is it more like it brings it down to a bearable level? I might have a go at opening up the vents or adding one through the ashtray like the U.S. behr systems had. Greg E
> From: Yurik Orlowsky <yuriko@...>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 7:02 PM
> Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
> GregMy Prestige ac probably has more air flow as the unit sits on top of the dash and has 5 vents blowing into the cabin. See attached photo of the unit, with red Kimberly dust in the vents from our recent trip to the NW.Yurik From:
> Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greg esposito
> Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 2:25 PM
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system Ken, I have a "modern" compressor. The system was retrofitted to r134a in 2008. The air temp is a constant 1-3 degrees at the vents. If there was a fault with my system it just would not cycle consistanty at this temp. There is just not enough air coming out to cool the cabin. Mark was telling me at the dotvw that he had a rear evap fitted. Does
> Yurik/yourself have the big vent box on top of the dash? Mine employs the original face vents plus only one extra face vent in the middle of the dash next to the radio. It is possible Yuriks has more air flow than mine. Also I have not made any attempt to seal the cabin (carbon monoxide vent and fridge vent). I think alot of the cold air escapes or is diluted through these air leaks. I think the curtain is a no brainer if you dont have rear passengers why cool the rest of the cabin? I am not trying to put you off your project just saying after you get your standard presige system working you may need to do some extra work to make it comfortable in the cabin. Good luck. Greg E From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...>
> To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PM
> Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system Greg,I presently can't agree with your contentions, except for the idea of a curtain behind the front seats. Graham Adams has installed one, apparently works
> well. I'm happy to give the refurbishment a try, encouraged by a detailed post in 2008 from Yurik in Perth, as follows ...... Ken,My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it to be ineffective.
> At one point when a re-gas was needed, I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling significantly. Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the new engine (2003) came with a compressor which was retro fitted to the existing system and this combination produced very crisp cold air, a huge improvement. I have come to the conclusion that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have. One of my friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac. With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be modified and new hose connectors installed to suit the compressor used. All other components
> remain.If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the existing bracket then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade. The remaining things are to get new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX valve and receiver-drier. I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring connectors. Any decrease of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be made up by using longer Al tails on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the components in the system are re-used i.e.,
> condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and ask them to do a re-gas. Make sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and contaminants. Have a pressure test using Nitrogen gas and as well, a vacuum leak down test. Make sure they use extra oil because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably inject a UV sensitive dye with the R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to return to them after approx. 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one would expect a slow reduction of efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of the gas through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks. For the moment I am keeping cool. Regards Yurik 21/11/2008 So thanks very much again Yurik.This leaves me then with my original questions the subject of this post, if anyone has something specific to add along those lines, I'd
> much appreciate it asap. TIA. Cheers.
> KenTo: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: gregespo73@...
> Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
>
> Ken unless you are putting an air curtain behind the driver or an additional evaporator in the rear, save your money. The evaporator size and fan capacity are just insufficient for a five metre long box. If the in dash thing would have worked VW would have done it. Instead they put a massive duct from rear to front. I guess your lucky as from what I understand you probably won't have rear passengers which to me says go the
> plastic curtain. Greg E From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...>
> To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PM
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system All, I am about to embark on the refurbishment of the erm ... "much loved" Prestige AC system in my syncro. Touch wood. Wish me luck. Please see the attached files re the new Zexel compressor that will be swapped in for the 20yo Sanden 709 as well as the pdf fluid volume spec files for Vanagon AC systems. I suspect these Vanagon fluid volumes are not relevant to our Prestige AC system, merely notable. Agreed?
> One thing I am unsure of is, aside from the refrigerant oil already in the new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil is added to the system for other components during refurbishment? Putting the question another way, ignoring the refrigerant oil volume included in any new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil was added to the system for other components during assembly as specified for the original Oz Prestige AC system in our vans? TIA. Cheers. Ken
>

[kombi4x427lc (Scott Pitcher)]

Ben,

Be assured complaints from wives don't stop because they are comfortable. They will always find something else to whine about regardless.

You need a good set of head phones and an I-pod turned up very loud. Cricket padding also helps when they start turning violent.

At least you can keep you mind on the road then.

Cheers,

Skot

On 24/11/2011 10:05 PM, Ben wrote:

 

I have Prestidge AC,and I have the same AC vents as Yurik and Ken.
I hope to get my AC running before Xmas.Yuriks comments on his AC, has given me hope that one day,I may be able to drive in coolness and peacefulness(whingingless).
BTW,I have a Prestidge compressor if someone wants one.
BenC

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> My on-dash unit looks the same as Yuriks. I have seen taller units in other syncros, don't know though what brand of install they are. Ken
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: gregespo73@...
> Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 01:51:07 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks for chiming in Yurik. I thought you might have that vent. Does the cabin temp come down as much as in a modern car? Or is it more like it brings it down to a bearable level? I might have a go at opening up the vents or adding one through the ashtray like the U.S. behr systems had. Greg E
> From: Yurik Orlowsky <yuriko@...>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 7:02 PM
> Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> GregMy Prestige ac probably has more air flow as the unit sits on top of the dash and has 5 vents blowing into the cabin. See attached photo of the unit, with red Kimberly dust in the vents from our recent trip to the NW.Yurik From:
> Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greg esposito
> Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 2:25 PM
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system Ken, I have a "modern" compressor. The system was retrofitted to r134a in 2008. The air temp is a constant 1-3 degrees at the vents. If there was a fault with my system it just would not cycle consistanty at this temp. There is just not enough air coming out to cool the cabin. Mark was telling me at the dotvw that he had a rear evap fitted. Does
> Yurik/yourself have the big vent box on top of the dash? Mine employs the original face vents plus only one extra face vent in the middle of the dash next to the radio. It is possible Yuriks has more air flow than mine. Also I have not made any attempt to seal the cabin (carbon monoxide vent and fridge vent). I think alot of the cold air escapes or is diluted through these air leaks. I think the curtain is a no brainer if you dont have rear passengers why cool the rest of the cabin? I am not trying to put you off your project just saying after you get your standard presige system working you may need to do some extra work to make it comfortable in the cabin. Good luck. Greg E From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...>
> To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PM
> Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system Greg,I presently can't agree with your contentions, except for the idea of a curtain behind the front seats. Graham Adams has installed one, apparently works
> well. I'm happy to give the refurbishment a try, encouraged by a detailed post in 2008 from Yurik in Perth, as follows ...... Ken,My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it to be ineffective.
> At one point when a re-gas was needed, I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling significantly. Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the new engine (2003) came with a compressor which was retro fitted to the existing system and this combination produced very crisp cold air, a huge improvement. I have come to the conclusion that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have. One of my friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac. With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be modified and new hose connectors installed to suit the compressor used. All other components
> remain.If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the existing bracket then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade. The remaining things are to get new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX valve and receiver-drier. I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring connectors. Any decrease of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be made up by using longer Al tails on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the components in the system are re-used i.e.,
> condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and ask them to do a re-gas. Make sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and contaminants. Have a pressure test using Nitrogen gas and as well, a vacuum leak down test. Make sure they use extra oil because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably inject a UV sensitive dye with the R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to return to them after approx. 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one would expect a slow reduction of efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of the gas through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks. For the moment I am keeping cool. Regards Yurik 21/11/2008 So thanks very much again Yurik.This leaves me then with my original questions the subject of this post, if anyone has something specific to add along those lines, I'd
> much appreciate it asap. TIA. Cheers.
> KenTo: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: gregespo73@...
> Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
>
> Ken unless you are putting an air curtain behind the driver or an additional evaporator in the rear, save your money. The evaporator size and fan capacity are just insufficient for a five metre long box. If the in dash thing would have worked VW would have done it. Instead they put a massive duct from rear to front. I guess your lucky as from what I understand you probably won't have rear passengers which to me says go the
> plastic curtain. Greg E From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...>
> To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PM
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system All, I am about to embark on the refurbishment of the erm ... "much loved" Prestige AC system in my syncro. Touch wood. Wish me luck. Please see the attached files re the new Zexel compressor that will be swapped in for the 20yo Sanden 709 as well as the pdf fluid volume spec files for Vanagon AC systems. I suspect these Vanagon fluid volumes are not relevant to our Prestige AC system, merely notable. Agreed?
> One thing I am unsure of is, aside from the refrigerant oil already in the new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil is added to the system for other components during refurbishment? Putting the question another way, ignoring the refrigerant oil volume included in any new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil was added to the system for other components during assembly as specified for the original Oz Prestige AC system in our vans? TIA. Cheers. Ken
>

[unclekenz (Ken Garratt)]

Greg,

In case you haven't seen this attachment re Vanagon AC install .... interesting challenge!

Cheers.

Ken

---

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 01:51:07 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Thanks for chiming in Yurik. I thought you might have that vent. Does the cabin temp come down as much as in a modern car? Or is it more like it brings it down to a bearable level? I might have a go at opening up the vents or adding one through the ashtray like the U.S. behr systems had. Greg E

From: Yurik Orlowsky <yuriko@iinet.net.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 7:02 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Greg

My Prestige ac probably has more air flow as the unit sits on top of the dash and has 5 vents blowing into the cabin. See attached photo of the unit, with red Kimberly dust in the vents from our recent trip to the NW.

Yurik

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greg esposito
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 2:25 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

 

Ken, I have a "modern" compressor. The system was retrofitted to r134a in 2008. The air temp is a constant 1-3 degrees at the vents. If there was a fault with my system it just would not cycle consistanty at this temp. There is just not enough air coming out to cool the cabin. Mark was telling me at the dotvw that he had a rear evap fitted. Does Yurik/yourself have the big vent box on top of the dash? Mine employs the original face vents plus only one extra face vent in the middle of the dash next to the radio. It is possible Yuriks has more air flow than mine. Also I have not made any attempt to seal the cabin (carbon monoxide vent and fridge vent). I think alot of the cold air escapes or is diluted through these air leaks. I think the curtain is a no brainer if you dont have rear passengers why cool the rest of the cabin? I am not trying to put you off your project just saying after you get your standard presige system working you may need to do some extra work to make it comfortable in the cabin. Good luck. Greg E

 

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Greg,

I presently can't agree with your contentions, except for the idea of a curtain behind the front seats. Graham Adams has installed one, apparently works well.

 

I'm happy to give the refurbishment a try, encouraged by a detailed post in 2008 from Yurik in Perth, as follows ......

 

Ken,

My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it to be ineffective. At one point when a re-gas was needed, I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling significantly.  Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the new engine (2003)  came with a compressor which was retro fitted to the existing system and this combination produced very crisp cold air, a huge improvement.  I have come to the conclusion that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have.  One of my friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac.

With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be modified and new hose connectors installed to suit the compressor used.  All other components remain.

If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the existing bracket then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade.  The remaining things are to get new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX valve and receiver-drier.

I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring connectors. Any decrease of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be made up by using longer Al tails on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the components in the system are re-used i.e., condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.

I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and ask them to do a re-gas. Make sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and contaminants. Have a pressure test using Nitrogen gas and as well, a vacuum leak down test. Make sure they use extra oil because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably inject a UV sensitive dye with the R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to return to them after approx. 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.

My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one would expect a slow reduction of efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of the gas through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks.

For the moment I am keeping cool.

Regards

Yurik       21/11/2008

 

 

 

So thanks very much again Yurik.

This leaves me then with my original questions the subject of this post, if anyone has something specific to add along those lines, I'd much appreciate it asap. TIA.

 

Cheers.

Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

 

Ken unless you are putting an air curtain behind the driver or an additional evaporator in the rear, save your money. The evaporator size and fan capacity are just insufficient for a five metre long box. If the in dash thing would have worked VW would have done it. Instead they put a massive duct from rear to front. I guess your lucky as from what I understand you probably won't have rear passengers which to me says go the plastic curtain. Greg E

 

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

All,

 

I am about to embark on the refurbishment of the erm ... "much loved" Prestige AC system in my syncro. Touch wood. Wish me luck.

 

Please see the attached files re the new Zexel compressor that will be swapped in for the 20yo Sanden 709 as well as the pdf fluid volume spec files for Vanagon AC systems. I suspect these Vanagon fluid volumes are not relevant to our Prestige AC system, merely notable. Agreed?

 

One thing I am unsure of is, aside from the refrigerant oil already in the new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil is added to the system for other components during refurbishment?

 

Putting the question another way, ignoring the refrigerant oil volume included in any new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil was added to the system for other components during assembly as specified for the original Oz Prestige AC system in our vans? TIA.

 

Cheers.

 

Ken 

 

 

 

 

[bentbutstr8 (BenT Syncro)]

I know the author of this article personally. For someone who appears to prefer a stock or very near factory solution, I am quite amazed that Ken would suggest this type of system. Or perhaps you only point to it as interesting reading.

Fortunately for us in the US, there were several options. The oldest was the VW dealer add-in Behr in dash system. Then there was a virtual copy of the Behr in the form of DPD in-dash made in Texas. This was one situation where I felt the copy was better than the original. Both the Behr and DPD being specifically designed as an aftermarket install, both are much easier to retrofit than the factory AC systems. The DPD has the advantage of using standard round bulkhead fittings. The Behr uses a large brass unified fitting which is very difficult to fit even with the correct templates. I own both units and have compared them side by side. Both systems are essentially factory air in the engine compartment. It is only the evaporator and blower system which is different from the factory systems.

During one of my parts chases, I came upon what I thought was a NOS Behr in dash missing only the center vent. Upon. Closer examination, I discovered it was an underseat secondary evap/blower system. It's very nicely done and leave a factory appearance when installed properly. I suppose you can fit the in-dash system in tandem with this system. Should you decide to also add the factory rear evap/blower, it appears quite feasible to create an environment that polar bears and penguins would feel comfortable in even in the ambient temperatures common during the summer months in Death Valley, California. To put that into perspective, on one drive to Las Vegas, Nevada, I stopped by a gas station to tank up. The giant thermometer outside read 118F degrees. I pointed that out to one of the locals. His response was, "I know. Isn't great that it finally cooled down?"

Anyway, I feel the further you move away from the factory design (such as with Prestige), you are likely going to have to solve problems which has been solve some 20 years ago by people likely to be more competent than the typical shadetree mechanic.

Regards,

BenT

On Nov 24, 2011, at 5:05 AM, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:

Greg,

In case you haven't seen this attachment re Vanagon AC install .... interesting challenge!

Cheers.

Ken

---

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com

From: gregespo73@yahoo.com

Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 01:51:07 -0800

Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Thanks for chiming in Yurik. I thought you might have that vent. Does the cabin temp come down as much as in a modern car? Or is it more like it brings it down to a bearable level? I might have a go at opening up the vents or adding one through the ashtray like the U.S. behr systems had. Greg E

From: Yurik Orlowsky <yuriko@iinet.net.au>To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 7:02 PMSubject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Greg

My Prestige ac probably has more air flow as the unit sits on top of the dash and has 5 vents blowing into the cabin. See attached photo of the unit, with red Kimberly dust in the vents from our recent trip to the NW.

Yurik

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greg esposito

Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 2:25 PM

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

 

Ken, I have a "modern" compressor. The system was retrofitted to r134a in 2008. The air temp is a constant 1-3 degrees at the vents. If there was a fault with my system it just would not cycle consistanty at this temp. There is just not enough air coming out to cool the cabin. Mark was telling me at the dotvw that he had a rear evap fitted. Does Yurik/yourself have the big vent box on top of the dash? Mine employs the original face vents plus only one extra face vent in the middle of the dash next to the radio. It is possible Yuriks has more air flow than mine. Also I have not made any attempt to seal the cabin (carbon monoxide vent and fridge vent). I think alot of the cold air escapes or is diluted through these air leaks. I think the curtain is a no brainer if you dont have rear passengers why cool the rest of the cabin? I am not trying to put you off your project just saying after you get your standard presige system working you may need to do some extra work to make it comfortable in the cabin. Good luck. Greg E

 

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>

To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PMSubject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Greg,

I presently can't agree with your contentions, except for the idea of a curtain behind the front seats. Graham Adams has installed one, apparently works well.

 

I'm happy to give the refurbishment a try, encouraged by a detailed post in 2008 from Yurik in Perth, as follows ......

 

Ken,

My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it to be ineffective. At one point when a re-gas was needed, I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling significantly.  Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the new engine (2003)  came with a compressor which was retro fitted to the existing system and this combination produced very crisp cold air, a huge improvement.  I have come to the conclusion that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have.  One of my friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac.

With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be modified and new hose connectors installed to suit the compressor used.  All other components remain.

If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the existing bracket then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade.  The remaining things are to get new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX valve and receiver-drier.

I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring connectors. Any decrease of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be made up by using longer Al tails on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the components in the system are re-used i.e., condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.

I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and ask them to do a re-gas. Make sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and contaminants. Have a pressure test using Nitrogen gas and as well, a vacuum leak down test. Make sure they use extra oil because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably inject a UV sensitive dye with the R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to return to them after approx. 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.

My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one would expect a slow reduction of efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of the gas through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks.

For the moment I am keeping cool.

Regards

Yurik       21/11/2008

 

 

 

So thanks very much again Yurik.

This leaves me then with my original questions the subject of this post, if anyone has something specific to add along those lines, I'd much appreciate it asap. TIA.

 

Cheers.

Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com

From: gregespo73@yahoo.comDate: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system 

 

Ken unless you are putting an air curtain behind the driver or an additional evaporator in the rear, save your money. The evaporator size and fan capacity are just insufficient for a five metre long box. If the in dash thing would have worked VW would have done it. Instead they put a massive duct from rear to front. I guess your lucky as from what I understand you probably won't have rear passengers which to me says go the plastic curtain. Greg E

 

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>

To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PMSubject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

All,

 

I am about to embark on the refurbishment of the erm ... "much loved" Prestige AC system in my syncro. Touch wood. Wish me luck.

 

Please see the attached files re the new Zexel compressor that will be swapped in for the 20yo Sanden 709 as well as the pdf fluid volume spec files for Vanagon AC systems. I suspect these Vanagon fluid volumes are not relevant to our Prestige AC system, merely notable. Agreed?

 

One thing I am unsure of is, aside from the refrigerant oil already in the new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil is added to the system for other components during refurbishment?

 

Putting the question another way, ignoring the refrigerant oil volume included in any new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil was added to the system for other components during assembly as specified for the original Oz Prestige AC system in our vans? TIA.

 

Cheers.

 

Ken 

 

 

 

 

<Vanagon aftermarket AC install.doc>

[bentbutstr8 (BenT Syncro)]

I have the opposite problem. My GF complains that my AC is always too cold. I've had to resort to bringing a blanket for her to use so I can keep my cool.

BenT

sent from my electronic leash

On Nov 24, 2011, at 3:53 AM, Scott Pitcher <spbconsulting@bigpond.com> wrote:

Ben,

Be assured complaints from wives don't stop because they are comfortable. They will always find something else to whine about regardless.

You need a good set of head phones and an I-pod turned up very loud. Cricket padding also helps when they start turning violent.

At least you can keep you mind on the road then.

Cheers,

Skot




On 24/11/2011 10:05 PM, Ben wrote:

 

I have Prestidge AC,and I have the same AC vents as Yurik and Ken.
I hope to get my AC running before Xmas.Yuriks comments on his AC, has given me hope that one day,I may be able to drive in coolness and peacefulness(whingingless).
BTW,I have a Prestidge compressor if someone wants one.
BenC

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> My on-dash unit looks the same as Yuriks. I have seen taller units in other syncros, don't know though what brand of install they are. Ken
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: gregespo73@...
> Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 01:51:07 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks for chiming in Yurik. I thought you might have that vent. Does the cabin temp come down as much as in a modern car? Or is it more like it brings it down to a bearable level? I might have a go at opening up the vents or adding one through the ashtray like the U.S. behr systems had. Greg E
> From: Yurik Orlowsky <yuriko@...>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 7:02 PM
> Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
> GregMy Prestige ac probably has more air flow as the unit sits on top of the dash and has 5 vents blowing into the cabin. See attached photo of the unit, with red Kimberly dust in the vents from our recent trip to the NW.Yurik From:
> Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greg esposito
> Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 2:25 PM
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system Ken, I have a "modern" compressor. The system was retrofitted to r134a in 2008. The air temp is a constant 1-3 degrees at the vents. If there was a fault with my system it just would not cycle consistanty at this temp. There is just not enough air coming out to cool the cabin. Mark was telling me at the dotvw that he had a rear evap fitted. Does
> Yurik/yourself have the big vent box on top of the dash? Mine employs the original face vents plus only one extra face vent in the middle of the dash next to the radio. It is possible Yuriks has more air flow than mine. Also I have not made any attempt to seal the cabin (carbon monoxide vent and fridge vent). I think alot of the cold air escapes or is diluted through these air leaks. I think the curtain is a no brainer if you dont have rear passengers why cool the rest of the cabin? I am not trying to put you off your project just saying after you get your standard presige system working you may need to do some extra work to make it comfortable in the cabin. Good luck. Greg E From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...>
> To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PM
> Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system Greg,I presently can't agree with your contentions, except for the idea of a curtain behind the front seats. Graham Adams has installed one, apparently works
> well. I'm happy to give the refurbishment a try, encouraged by a detailed post in 2008 from Yurik in Perth, as follows ...... Ken,My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it to be ineffective.
> At one point when a re-gas was needed, I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling significantly. Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the new engine (2003) came with a compressor which was retro fitted to the existing system and this combination produced very crisp cold air, a huge improvement. I have come to the conclusion that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have. One of my friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac. With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be modified and new hose connectors installed to suit the compressor used. All other components
> remain.If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the existing bracket then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade. The remaining things are to get new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX valve and receiver-drier. I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring connectors. Any decrease of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be made up by using longer Al tails on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the components in the system are re-used i.e.,
> condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and ask them to do a re-gas. Make sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and contaminants. Have a pressure test using Nitrogen gas and as well, a vacuum leak down test. Make sure they use extra oil because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably inject a UV sensitive dye with the R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to return to them after approx. 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one would expect a slow reduction of efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of the gas through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks. For the moment I am keeping cool. Regards Yurik 21/11/2008 So thanks very much again Yurik.This leaves me then with my original questions the subject of this post, if anyone has something specific to add along those lines, I'd
> much appreciate it asap. TIA. Cheers.
> KenTo: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: gregespo73@...
> Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
>
> Ken unless you are putting an air curtain behind the driver or an additional evaporator in the rear, save your money. The evaporator size and fan capacity are just insufficient for a five metre long box. If the in dash thing would have worked VW would have done it. Instead they put a massive duct from rear to front. I guess your lucky as from what I understand you probably won't have rear passengers which to me says go the
> plastic curtain. Greg E From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...>
> To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PM
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system All, I am about to embark on the refurbishment of the erm ... "much loved" Prestige AC system in my syncro. Touch wood. Wish me luck. Please see the attached files re the new Zexel compressor that will be swapped in for the 20yo Sanden 709 as well as the pdf fluid volume spec files for Vanagon AC systems. I suspect these Vanagon fluid volumes are not relevant to our Prestige AC system, merely notable. Agreed?
> One thing I am unsure of is, aside from the refrigerant oil already in the new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil is added to the system for other components during refurbishment? Putting the question another way, ignoring the refrigerant oil volume included in any new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil was added to the system for other components during assembly as specified for the original Oz Prestige AC system in our vans? TIA. Cheers. Ken
>

[gregespo73 (Greg Esposito)]

Ken, I think I would rather sweat than do that to my van. He's lost all fresh air into the cabin also.

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, 25 November 2011 12:05 AM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Greg,

In case you haven't seen this attachment re Vanagon AC install .... interesting challenge!

Cheers.

Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 01:51:07 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Thanks for chiming in Yurik. I thought you might have that vent. Does the cabin temp come down as much as in a modern car? Or is it more like it brings it down to a bearable level? I might have a go at opening up the vents or adding one through the ashtray like the U.S. behr systems had. Greg E

From: Yurik Orlowsky <yuriko@iinet.net.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 7:02 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Greg

My Prestige ac probably has more air flow as the unit sits on top of the dash and has 5 vents blowing into the cabin. See attached photo of the unit, with red Kimberly dust in the vents from our recent trip to the NW.

Yurik

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greg esposito
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 2:25 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

 

Ken, I have a "modern" compressor. The system was retrofitted to r134a in 2008. The air temp is a constant 1-3 degrees at the vents. If there was a fault with my system it just would not cycle consistanty at this temp. There is just not enough air coming out to cool the cabin. Mark was telling me at the dotvw that he had a rear evap fitted. Does Yurik/yourself have the big vent box on top of the dash? Mine employs the original face vents plus only one extra face vent in the middle of the dash next to the radio. It is possible Yuriks has more air flow than mine. Also I have not made any attempt to seal the cabin (carbon monoxide vent and fridge vent). I think alot of the cold air escapes or is diluted through these air leaks. I think the curtain is a no brainer if you dont have rear passengers why cool the rest of the cabin? I am not trying to put you off your project just saying after you get your standard presige system working you may need to do some extra work to make it comfortable in the cabin. Good luck. Greg E

 

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Greg,

I presently can't agree with your contentions, except for the idea of a curtain behind the front seats. Graham Adams has installed one, apparently works well.

 

I'm happy to give the refurbishment a try, encouraged by a detailed post in 2008 from Yurik in Perth, as follows ......

 

Ken,

My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it to be ineffective. At one point when a re-gas was needed, I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling significantly.  Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the new engine (2003)  came with a compressor which was retro fitted to the existing system and this combination produced very crisp cold air, a huge improvement.  I have come to the conclusion that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have.  One of my friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac.

With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be modified and new hose connectors installed to suit the compressor used.  All other components remain.

If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the existing bracket then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade.  The remaining things are to get new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX valve and receiver-drier.

I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring connectors. Any decrease of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be made up by using longer Al tails on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the components in the system are re-used i.e., condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.

I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and ask them to do a re-gas. Make sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and contaminants. Have a pressure test using Nitrogen gas and as well, a vacuum leak down test. Make sure they use extra oil because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably inject a UV sensitive dye with the R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to return to them after approx. 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.

My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one would expect a slow reduction of efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of the gas through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks.

For the moment I am keeping cool.

Regards

Yurik       21/11/2008

 

 

 

So thanks very much again Yurik.

This leaves me then with my original questions the subject of this post, if anyone has something specific to add along those lines, I'd much appreciate it asap. TIA.

 

Cheers.

Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

 

Ken unless you are putting an air curtain behind the driver or an additional evaporator in the rear, save your money. The evaporator size and fan capacity are just insufficient for a five metre long box. If the in dash thing would have worked VW would have done it. Instead they put a massive duct from rear to front. I guess your lucky as from what I understand you probably won't have rear passengers which to me says go the plastic curtain. Greg E

 

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

All,

 

I am about to embark on the refurbishment of the erm ... "much loved" Prestige AC system in my syncro. Touch wood. Wish me luck.

 

Please see the attached files re the new Zexel compressor that will be swapped in for the 20yo Sanden 709 as well as the pdf fluid volume spec files for Vanagon AC systems. I suspect these Vanagon fluid volumes are not relevant to our Prestige AC system, merely notable. Agreed?

 

One thing I am unsure of is, aside from the refrigerant oil already in the new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil is added to the system for other components during refurbishment?

 

Putting the question another way, ignoring the refrigerant oil volume included in any new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil was added to the system for other components during assembly as specified for the original Oz Prestige AC system in our vans? TIA.

 

Cheers.

 

Ken 

 

 

 

 

[unclekenz (Ken Garratt)]

Ben,

Just interesting. This link for me illustrates the sort of lengths you guys across the very big ditch are prepared to go to with your mind blowing array of retro fitted Vanagon mods.

Most OZ syncro campers would be flat out finding spare space to install front and rear combo systems, certainly not overhead, nor bare yet another considerable expense.

So at the end of the day, refurbishing what I already have on board is as far as I'm prepared to go, a case of reasonable compromise, especially given I prefer travelling mostly during the more pleasant Autumn and Spring. If the AC system wasn't there when I bought the beast, I wouldn't have bought it. As it is there, hence my preparedness to give it a go to refurbish. End of story.

Anyone who visits or lives in or near Death Valley has got to be some crazy kind of masochist!

Cheers.

Ken

---

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: syncro@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 06:37:14 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

I know the author of this article personally. For someone who appears to prefer a stock or very near factory solution, I am quite amazed that Ken would suggest this type of system. Or perhaps you only point to it as interesting reading.

Fortunately for us in the US, there were several options. The oldest was the VW dealer add-in Behr in dash system. Then there was a virtual copy of the Behr in the form of DPD in-dash made in Texas. This was one situation where I felt the copy was better than the original. Both the Behr and DPD being specifically designed as an aftermarket install, both are much easier to retrofit than the factory AC systems. The DPD has the advantage of using standard round bulkhead fittings. The Behr uses a large brass unified fitting which is very difficult to fit even with the correct templates. I own both units and have compared them side by side. Both systems are essentially factory air in the engine compartment. It is only the evaporator and blower system which is different from the factory systems.

During one of my parts chases, I came upon what I thought was a NOS Behr in dash missing only the center vent. Upon. Closer examination, I discovered it was an underseat secondary evap/blower system. It's very nicely done and leave a factory appearance when installed properly. I suppose you can fit the in-dash system in tandem with this system. Should you decide to also add the factory rear evap/blower, it appears quite feasible to create an environment that polar bears and penguins would feel comfortable in even in the ambient temperatures common during the summer months in Death Valley, California. To put that into perspective, on one drive to Las Vegas, Nevada, I stopped by a gas station to tank up. The giant thermometer outside read 118F degrees. I pointed that out to one of the locals. His response was, "I know. Isn't great that it finally cooled down?"

Anyway, I feel the further you move away from the factory design (such as with Prestige), you are likely going to have to solve problems which has been solve some 20 years ago by people likely to be more competent than the typical shadetree mechanic.

Regards,

BenT

On Nov 24, 2011, at 5:05 AM, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:

Greg,

In case you haven't seen this attachment re Vanagon AC install .... interesting challenge!

Cheers.

Ken

---

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com

From: gregespo73@yahoo.com

Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 01:51:07 -0800

Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Thanks for chiming in Yurik. I thought you might have that vent. Does the cabin temp come down as much as in a modern car? Or is it more like it brings it down to a bearable level? I might have a go at opening up the vents or adding one through the ashtray like the U.S. behr systems had. Greg E

From: Yurik Orlowsky <yuriko@iinet.net.au>To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 7:02 PMSubject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Greg

My Prestige ac probably has more air flow as the unit sits on top of the dash and has 5 vents blowing into the cabin. See attached photo of the unit, with red Kimberly dust in the vents from our recent trip to the NW.

Yurik

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greg esposito

Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 2:25 PM

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

 

Ken, I have a "modern" compressor. The system was retrofitted to r134a in 2008. The air temp is a constant 1-3 degrees at the vents. If there was a fault with my system it just would not cycle consistanty at this temp. There is just not enough air coming out to cool the cabin. Mark was telling me at the dotvw that he had a rear evap fitted. Does Yurik/yourself have the big vent box on top of the dash? Mine employs the original face vents plus only one extra face vent in the middle of the dash next to the radio. It is possible Yuriks has more air flow than mine. Also I have not made any attempt to seal the cabin (carbon monoxide vent and fridge vent). I think alot of the cold air escapes or is diluted through these air leaks. I think the curtain is a no brainer if you dont have rear passengers why cool the rest of the cabin? I am not trying to put you off your project just saying after you get your standard presige system working you may need to do some extra work to make it comfortable in the cabin. Good luck. Greg E

 

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>

To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PMSubject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Greg,

I presently can't agree with your contentions, except for the idea of a curtain behind the front seats. Graham Adams has installed one, apparently works well.

 

I'm happy to give the refurbishment a try, encouraged by a detailed post in 2008 from Yurik in Perth, as follows ......

 

Ken,

My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it to be ineffective. At one point when a re-gas was needed, I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling significantly.  Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the new engine (2003)  came with a compressor which was retro fitted to the existing system and this combination produced very crisp cold air, a huge improvement.  I have come to the conclusion that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have.  One of my friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac.

With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be modified and new hose connectors installed to suit the compressor used.  All other components remain.

If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the existing bracket then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade.  The remaining things are to get new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX valve and receiver-drier.

I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring connectors. Any decrease of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be made up by using longer Al tails on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the components in the system are re-used i.e., condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.

I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and ask them to do a re-gas. Make sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and contaminants. Have a pressure test using Nitrogen gas and as well, a vacuum leak down test. Make sure they use extra oil because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably inject a UV sensitive dye with the R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to return to them after approx. 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.

My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one would expect a slow reduction of efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of the gas through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks.

For the moment I am keeping cool.

Regards

Yurik       21/11/2008

 

 

 

So thanks very much again Yurik.

This leaves me then with my original questions the subject of this post, if anyone has something specific to add along those lines, I'd much appreciate it asap. TIA.

 

Cheers.

Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com

From: gregespo73@yahoo.comDate: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system 

 

Ken unless you are putting an air curtain behind the driver or an additional evaporator in the rear, save your money. The evaporator size and fan capacity are just insufficient for a five metre long box. If the in dash thing would have worked VW would have done it. Instead they put a massive duct from rear to front. I guess your lucky as from what I understand you probably won't have rear passengers which to me says go the plastic curtain. Greg E

 

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>

To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PMSubject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

All,

 

I am about to embark on the refurbishment of the erm ... "much loved" Prestige AC system in my syncro. Touch wood. Wish me luck.

 

Please see the attached files re the new Zexel compressor that will be swapped in for the 20yo Sanden 709 as well as the pdf fluid volume spec files for Vanagon AC systems. I suspect these Vanagon fluid volumes are not relevant to our Prestige AC system, merely notable. Agreed?

 

One thing I am unsure of is, aside from the refrigerant oil already in the new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil is added to the system for other components during refurbishment?

 

Putting the question another way, ignoring the refrigerant oil volume included in any new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil was added to the system for other components during assembly as specified for the original Oz Prestige AC system in our vans? TIA.

 

Cheers.

 

Ken 

 

 

 

 

<Vanagon aftermarket AC install.doc>

[unclekenz (Ken Garratt)]

Ben,

Death Valley in summer I mean.

Ken

---

To: syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com
From: unclekenz@hotmail.com
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 07:28:11 +1100
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Ben,

Just interesting. This link for me illustrates the sort of lengths you guys across the very big ditch are prepared to go to with your mind blowing array of retro fitted Vanagon mods.

Most OZ syncro campers would be flat out finding spare space to install front and rear combo systems, certainly not overhead, nor bare yet another considerable expense.

So at the end of the day, refurbishing what I already have on board is as far as I'm prepared to go, a case of reasonable compromise, especially given I prefer travelling mostly during the more pleasant Autumn and Spring. If the AC system wasn't there when I bought the beast, I wouldn't have bought it. As it is there, hence my preparedness to give it a go to refurbish. End of story.

Anyone who visits or lives in or near Death Valley has got to be some crazy kind of masochist!

Cheers.

Ken

---

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: syncro@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 06:37:14 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

I know the author of this article personally. For someone who appears to prefer a stock or very near factory solution, I am quite amazed that Ken would suggest this type of system. Or perhaps you only point to it as interesting reading.

Fortunately for us in the US, there were several options. The oldest was the VW dealer add-in Behr in dash system. Then there was a virtual copy of the Behr in the form of DPD in-dash made in Texas. This was one situation where I felt the copy was better than the original. Both the Behr and DPD being specifically designed as an aftermarket install, both are much easier to retrofit than the factory AC systems. The DPD has the advantage of using standard round bulkhead fittings. The Behr uses a large brass unified fitting which is very difficult to fit even with the correct templates. I own both units and have compared them side by side. Both systems are essentially factory air in the engine compartment. It is only the evaporator and blower system which is different from the factory systems.

During one of my parts chases, I came upon what I thought was a NOS Behr in dash missing only the center vent. Upon. Closer examination, I discovered it was an underseat secondary evap/blower system. It's very nicely done and leave a factory appearance when installed properly. I suppose you can fit the in-dash system in tandem with this system. Should you decide to also add the factory rear evap/blower, it appears quite feasible to create an environment that polar bears and penguins would feel comfortable in even in the ambient temperatures common during the summer months in Death Valley, California. To put that into perspective, on one drive to Las Vegas, Nevada, I stopped by a gas station to tank up. The giant thermometer outside read 118F degrees. I pointed that out to one of the locals. His response was, "I know. Isn't great that it finally cooled down?"

Anyway, I feel the further you move away from the factory design (such as with Prestige), you are likely going to have to solve problems which has been solve some 20 years ago by people likely to be more competent than the typical shadetree mechanic.

Regards,

BenT

On Nov 24, 2011, at 5:05 AM, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:

Greg,

In case you haven't seen this attachment re Vanagon AC install .... interesting challenge!

Cheers.

Ken

---

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com

From: gregespo73@yahoo.com

Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 01:51:07 -0800

Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Thanks for chiming in Yurik. I thought you might have that vent. Does the cabin temp come down as much as in a modern car? Or is it more like it brings it down to a bearable level? I might have a go at opening up the vents or adding one through the ashtray like the U.S. behr systems had. Greg E

From: Yurik Orlowsky <yuriko@iinet.net.au>To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 7:02 PMSubject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Greg

My Prestige ac probably has more air flow as the unit sits on top of the dash and has 5 vents blowing into the cabin. See attached photo of the unit, with red Kimberly dust in the vents from our recent trip to the NW.

Yurik

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greg esposito

Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 2:25 PM

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

 

Ken, I have a "modern" compressor. The system was retrofitted to r134a in 2008. The air temp is a constant 1-3 degrees at the vents. If there was a fault with my system it just would not cycle consistanty at this temp. There is just not enough air coming out to cool the cabin. Mark was telling me at the dotvw that he had a rear evap fitted. Does Yurik/yourself have the big vent box on top of the dash? Mine employs the original face vents plus only one extra face vent in the middle of the dash next to the radio. It is possible Yuriks has more air flow than mine. Also I have not made any attempt to seal the cabin (carbon monoxide vent and fridge vent). I think alot of the cold air escapes or is diluted through these air leaks. I think the curtain is a no brainer if you dont have rear passengers why cool the rest of the cabin? I am not trying to put you off your project just saying after you get your standard presige system working you may need to do some extra work to make it comfortable in the cabin. Good luck. Greg E

 

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>

To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PMSubject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Greg,

I presently can't agree with your contentions, except for the idea of a curtain behind the front seats. Graham Adams has installed one, apparently works well.

 

I'm happy to give the refurbishment a try, encouraged by a detailed post in 2008 from Yurik in Perth, as follows ......

 

Ken,

My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it to be ineffective. At one point when a re-gas was needed, I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling significantly.  Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the new engine (2003)  came with a compressor which was retro fitted to the existing system and this combination produced very crisp cold air, a huge improvement.  I have come to the conclusion that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have.  One of my friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac.

With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be modified and new hose connectors installed to suit the compressor used.  All other components remain.

If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the existing bracket then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade.  The remaining things are to get new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX valve and receiver-drier.

I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring connectors. Any decrease of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be made up by using longer Al tails on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the components in the system are re-used i.e., condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.

I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and ask them to do a re-gas. Make sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and contaminants. Have a pressure test using Nitrogen gas and as well, a vacuum leak down test. Make sure they use extra oil because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably inject a UV sensitive dye with the R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to return to them after approx. 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.

My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one would expect a slow reduction of efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of the gas through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks.

For the moment I am keeping cool.

Regards

Yurik       21/11/2008

 

 

 

So thanks very much again Yurik.

This leaves me then with my original questions the subject of this post, if anyone has something specific to add along those lines, I'd much appreciate it asap. TIA.

 

Cheers.

Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com

From: gregespo73@yahoo.comDate: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system 

 

Ken unless you are putting an air curtain behind the driver or an additional evaporator in the rear, save your money. The evaporator size and fan capacity are just insufficient for a five metre long box. If the in dash thing would have worked VW would have done it. Instead they put a massive duct from rear to front. I guess your lucky as from what I understand you probably won't have rear passengers which to me says go the plastic curtain. Greg E

 

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>

To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PMSubject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

All,

 

I am about to embark on the refurbishment of the erm ... "much loved" Prestige AC system in my syncro. Touch wood. Wish me luck.

 

Please see the attached files re the new Zexel compressor that will be swapped in for the 20yo Sanden 709 as well as the pdf fluid volume spec files for Vanagon AC systems. I suspect these Vanagon fluid volumes are not relevant to our Prestige AC system, merely notable. Agreed?

 

One thing I am unsure of is, aside from the refrigerant oil already in the new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil is added to the system for other components during refurbishment?

 

Putting the question another way, ignoring the refrigerant oil volume included in any new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil was added to the system for other components during assembly as specified for the original Oz Prestige AC system in our vans? TIA.

 

Cheers.

 

Ken 

 

 

 

 

<Vanagon aftermarket AC install.doc>

[kiehn38 (Hartmut Kiehn)]

Ken, you have seen mine 2 weeks ago, it is Prestige and has 3 vents and is taller than yours....I took the cover off the other day and found that the evaporator had some sort of foam cloth (pollen filter ?) installed at at the air exit side. I have taken that thing out as it  (to me) doesn’t serve any other purpose then obstructing the airflow. Worx better now.  Hartmut

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken Garratt
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 9:09 PM
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

 

My on-dash unit looks the same as Yuriks. I have seen taller units in other syncros, don't know though what brand of install they are. 

Ken

 

 

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 01:51:07 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

 

Thanks for chiming in Yurik. I thought you might have that vent. Does the cabin temp come down as much as in a modern car? Or is it more like it brings it down to a bearable level? I might have a go at opening up the vents or adding one through the ashtray like the U.S. behr systems had. Greg E

 

From: Yurik Orlowsky <yuriko@iinet.net.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 7:02 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Greg

My Prestige ac probably has more air flow as the unit sits on top of the dash and has 5 vents blowing into the cabin. See attached photo of the unit, with red Kimberly dust in the vents from our recent trip to the NW.

Yurik

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greg esposito
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 2:25 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

 

Ken, I have a "modern" compressor. The system was retrofitted to r134a in 2008. The air temp is a constant 1-3 degrees at the vents. If there was a fault with my system it just would not cycle consistanty at this temp. There is just not enough air coming out to cool the cabin. Mark was telling me at the dotvw that he had a rear evap fitted. Does Yurik/yourself have the big vent box on top of the dash? Mine employs the original face vents plus only one extra face vent in the middle of the dash next to the radio. It is possible Yuriks has more air flow than mine. Also I have not made any attempt to seal the cabin (carbon monoxide vent and fridge vent). I think alot of the cold air escapes or is diluted through these air leaks. I think the curtain is a no brainer if you dont have rear passengers why cool the rest of the cabin? I am not trying to put you off your project just saying after you get your standard presige system working you may need to do some extra work to make it comfortable in the cabin. Good luck. Greg E

 

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

Greg,

I presently can't agree with your contentions, except for the idea of a curtain behind the front seats. Graham Adams has installed one, apparently works well.

 

I'm happy to give the refurbishment a try, encouraged by a detailed post in 2008 from Yurik in Perth, as follows ......

 

Ken,

My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it to be ineffective. At one point when a re-gas was needed, I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling significantly.  Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the new engine (2003)  came with a compressor which was retro fitted to the existing system and this combination produced very crisp cold air, a huge improvement.  I have come to the conclusion that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have.  One of my friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac.

With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be modified and new hose connectors installed to suit the compressor used.  All other components remain.

If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the existing bracket then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade.  The remaining things are to get new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX valve and receiver-drier.

I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring connectors. Any decrease of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be made up by using longer Al tails on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the components in the system are re-used i.e., condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.

I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and ask them to do a re-gas. Make sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and contaminants. Have a pressure test using Nitrogen gas and as well, a vacuum leak down test. Make sure they use extra oil because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably inject a UV sensitive dye with the R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to return to them after approx. 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.

My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one would expect a slow reduction of efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of the gas through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks.

For the moment I am keeping cool.

Regards

Yurik       21/11/2008

 

 

 

So thanks very much again Yurik.

This leaves me then with my original questions the subject of this post, if anyone has something specific to add along those lines, I'd much appreciate it asap. TIA.

 

Cheers.

Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

 

Ken unless you are putting an air curtain behind the driver or an additional evaporator in the rear, save your money. The evaporator size and fan capacity are just insufficient for a five metre long box. If the in dash thing would have worked VW would have done it. Instead they put a massive duct from rear to front. I guess your lucky as from what I understand you probably won't have rear passengers which to me says go the plastic curtain. Greg E

 

From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system

 

All,

 

I am about to embark on the refurbishment of the erm ... "much loved" Prestige AC system in my syncro. Touch wood. Wish me luck.

 

Please see the attached files re the new Zexel compressor that will be swapped in for the 20yo Sanden 709 as well as the pdf fluid volume spec files for Vanagon AC systems. I suspect these Vanagon fluid volumes are not relevant to our Prestige AC system, merely notable. Agreed?

 

One thing I am unsure of is, aside from the refrigerant oil already in the new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil is added to the system for other components during refurbishment?

 

Putting the question another way, ignoring the refrigerant oil volume included in any new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil was added to the system for other components during assembly as specified for the original Oz Prestige AC system in our vans? TIA.

 

Cheers.

 

Ken