On the subject of costs for maintaining our Syncros? Thought i would add
Has anyone rebuilt a toyo Pajero os Land Rover A/C driveline engine etc and if they have had a profesional job done by specialists < as we require> im sure they too would feel their Wallet was not big enough!!! @#$%@! timing belts and spark plugs that require plenim removal and sometimes worse make me think the Syncro is cheap!!! to maintain & repair.
Sorry to go against the pack here and i know some have really been getting into some serious expense as our beasts turn 21.
Put the shoe on the other foot and imagine getting youe BMW X5 wet up to the seat base and its a write off or if you blow the motor or gearbox just shot it like Elvis used to.
Good luck with the A/C and look foward to hearing if they can work at all
Best Regards Pete
ps
Not to mention we can draw many parts from 2wd Transporters at ridiculiously cheap prices comparativly
---
>
> On the subject of costs for maintaining our Syncros? Thought i would add
>
> Has anyone rebuilt a toyo Pajero os Land Rover A/C driveline engine etc
> and if they have had a profesional job done by specialists < as we
> require> im sure they too would feel their Wallet was not big enough!!!
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
Ken,
My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it to be ineffective. At one point when a re-gas was needed, I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling significantly. Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the new engine (2003) came with a compressor which was retro fitted to the existing system and this combination produced very crisp cold air, a huge improvement. I have come to the conclusion that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have. One of my friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac.
With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be modified and new hose connectors installed to suit the compressor used. All other components remain.
If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the existing bracket then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade. The remaining things are to get new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX valve and receiver-drier.
I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring connectors. Any decrease of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be made up by using longer Al tails on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the components in the system are re-used i.e., condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.
I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and ask them to do a re-gas. Make sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and contaminants. Have a pressure test using Nitrogen gas and as well, a vacuum leak down test. Make sure they use extra oil because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably inject a UV sensitive dye with the R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to return to them after approx. 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.
My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one would expect a slow reduction of efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of the gas through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks.
For the moment I am keeping cool.
Regards
Yurik 21/11/2008Ken
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
I ran a Tarago for over 500,000km (bought new) and it was a good vehicle except for one very serious shortcoming.
The engine sat between the front seats in an inverted well. In summer, the amount of heat the radiated through was absolutely preposterous. It was so bad that, after an hour’s driving in summer, the seat slides got so hot that they would burn the incautious hand!
It had dual air and the only way to get a tolerable level of cool in the front was to build a divider behind the engine hump. Originally, I built one on the hump but the front-only air wasn’t able to cope with the engine heat. The second divider was placed behind the hump so that both front and rear air fed the front compartment. That worked quite well but it was a lot of work to correct something that should never have been allowed to happen in the first place!
Les
From:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
[mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ]
On Behalf Of Ken Garratt
Sent: 24 November 2011 16:01
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia]
Prestige AC system
Greg,
I presently can't agree with your contentions, except for the idea of a curtain behind the front seats. Graham Adams has installed one, apparently works well.
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
KenTo: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 22:25:24 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
KenTo: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
Greg
My Prestige ac probably has more air flow as the unit sits on top of the dash and has 5 vents blowing into the cabin. See attached photo of the unit, with red Kimberly dust in the vents from our recent trip to the NW.
Yurik
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greg esposito
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 2:25 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
Ken, I have a "modern" compressor. The system was retrofitted to r134a in 2008. The air temp is a constant 1-3 degrees at the vents. If there was a fault with my system it just would not cycle consistanty at this temp. There is just not enough air coming out to cool the cabin. Mark was telling me at the dotvw that he had a rear evap fitted. Does Yurik/yourself have the big vent box on top of the dash? Mine employs the original face vents plus only one extra face vent in the middle of the dash next to the radio. It is possible Yuriks has more air flow than mine. Also I have not made any attempt to seal the cabin (carbon monoxide vent and fridge vent). I think alot of the cold air escapes or is diluted through these air leaks. I think the curtain is a no brainer if you dont have rear passengers why cool the rest of the cabin? I am not trying to put you off your project just saying after you get your standard presige system working you may need to do some extra work to make it comfortable in the cabin. Good luck. Greg E
From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
Greg,
I presently can't agree with your contentions, except for the idea of a curtain behind the front seats. Graham Adams has installed one, apparently works well.
I'm happy to give the refurbishment a try, encouraged by a detailed post in 2008 from Yurik in Perth, as follows ......
Ken,
My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it to be ineffective. At one point when a re-gas was needed, I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling significantly. Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the new engine (2003) came with a compressor which was retro fitted to the existing system and this combination produced very crisp cold air, a huge improvement. I have come to the conclusion that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have. One of my friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac.
With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be modified and new hose connectors installed to suit the compressor used. All other components remain.
If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the existing bracket then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade. The remaining things are to get new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX valve and receiver-drier.
I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring connectors. Any decrease of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be made up by using longer Al tails on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the components in the system are re-used i.e., condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.
I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and ask them to do a re-gas. Make sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and contaminants. Have a pressure test using Nitrogen gas and as well, a vacuum leak down test. Make sure they use extra oil because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably inject a UV sensitive dye with the R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to return to them after approx. 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.
My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one would expect a slow reduction of efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of the gas through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks.
For the moment I am keeping cool.
Regards
Yurik 21/11/2008
So thanks very much again Yurik.
This leaves me then with my original questions the subject of this post, if anyone has something specific to add along those lines, I'd much appreciate it asap. TIA.
Cheers.
Ken
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
Ken unless you are putting an air curtain behind the driver or an additional evaporator in the rear, save your money. The evaporator size and fan capacity are just insufficient for a five metre long box. If the in dash thing would have worked VW would have done it. Instead they put a massive duct from rear to front. I guess your lucky as from what I understand you probably won't have rear passengers which to me says go the plastic curtain. Greg E
From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
All,
I am about to embark on the refurbishment of the erm ... "much loved" Prestige AC system in my syncro. Touch wood. Wish me luck.
Please see the attached files re the new Zexel compressor that will be swapped in for the 20yo Sanden 709 as well as the pdf fluid volume spec files for Vanagon AC systems. I suspect these Vanagon fluid volumes are not relevant to our Prestige AC system, merely notable. Agreed?
One thing I am unsure of is, aside from the refrigerant oil already in the new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil is added to the system for other components during refurbishment?
Putting the question another way, ignoring the refrigerant oil volume included in any new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil was added to the system for other components during assembly as specified for the original Oz Prestige AC system in our vans? TIA.
Cheers.
Ken
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 7:02 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 2:25 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
Ken
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 01:51:07 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 7:02 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 2:25 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
Ken
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
I hope to get my AC running before Xmas.Yuriks comments on his AC, has given me hope that one day,I may be able to drive in coolness and peacefulness(whingingless).
BTW,I have a Prestidge compressor if someone wants one.
BenC
--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> My on-dash unit looks the same as Yuriks. I have seen taller units in other syncros, don't know though what brand of install they are. Ken
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: gregespo73@...
> Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 01:51:07 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
>
>
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> Thanks for chiming in Yurik. I thought you might have that vent. Does the cabin temp come down as much as in a modern car? Or is it more like it brings it down to a bearable level? I might have a go at opening up the vents or adding one through the ashtray like the U.S. behr systems had. Greg E
> From: Yurik Orlowsky <yuriko@...>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 7:02 PM
> Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
>
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> GregMy Prestige ac probably has more air flow as the unit sits on top of the dash and has 5 vents blowing into the cabin. See attached photo of the unit, with red Kimberly dust in the vents from our recent trip to the NW.Yurik From:
> Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greg esposito
> Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 2:25 PM
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system Ken, I have a "modern" compressor. The system was retrofitted to r134a in 2008. The air temp is a constant 1-3 degrees at the vents. If there was a fault with my system it just would not cycle consistanty at this temp. There is just not enough air coming out to cool the cabin. Mark was telling me at the dotvw that he had a rear evap fitted. Does
> Yurik/yourself have the big vent box on top of the dash? Mine employs the original face vents plus only one extra face vent in the middle of the dash next to the radio. It is possible Yuriks has more air flow than mine. Also I have not made any attempt to seal the cabin (carbon monoxide vent and fridge vent). I think alot of the cold air escapes or is diluted through these air leaks. I think the curtain is a no brainer if you dont have rear passengers why cool the rest of the cabin? I am not trying to put you off your project just saying after you get your standard presige system working you may need to do some extra work to make it comfortable in the cabin. Good luck. Greg E From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...>
> To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PM
> Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system Greg,I presently can't agree with your contentions, except for the idea of a curtain behind the front seats. Graham Adams has installed one, apparently works
> well. I'm happy to give the refurbishment a try, encouraged by a detailed post in 2008 from Yurik in Perth, as follows ...... Ken,My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it to be ineffective.
> At one point when a re-gas was needed, I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling significantly. Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the new engine (2003) came with a compressor which was retro fitted to the existing system and this combination produced very crisp cold air, a huge improvement. I have come to the conclusion that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have. One of my friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac. With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be modified and new hose connectors installed to suit the compressor used. All other components
> remain.If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the existing bracket then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade. The remaining things are to get new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX valve and receiver-drier. I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring connectors. Any decrease of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be made up by using longer Al tails on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the components in the system are re-used i.e.,
> condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and ask them to do a re-gas. Make sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and contaminants. Have a pressure test using Nitrogen gas and as well, a vacuum leak down test. Make sure they use extra oil because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably inject a UV sensitive dye with the R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to return to them after approx. 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one would expect a slow reduction of efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of the gas through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks. For the moment I am keeping cool. Regards Yurik 21/11/2008 So thanks very much again Yurik.This leaves me then with my original questions the subject of this post, if anyone has something specific to add along those lines, I'd
> much appreciate it asap. TIA. Cheers.
> KenTo: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: gregespo73@...
> Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
>
> Ken unless you are putting an air curtain behind the driver or an additional evaporator in the rear, save your money. The evaporator size and fan capacity are just insufficient for a five metre long box. If the in dash thing would have worked VW would have done it. Instead they put a massive duct from rear to front. I guess your lucky as from what I understand you probably won't have rear passengers which to me says go the
> plastic curtain. Greg E From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...>
> To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PM
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system All, I am about to embark on the refurbishment of the erm ... "much loved" Prestige AC system in my syncro. Touch wood. Wish me luck. Please see the attached files re the new Zexel compressor that will be swapped in for the 20yo Sanden 709 as well as the pdf fluid volume spec files for Vanagon AC systems. I suspect these Vanagon fluid volumes are not relevant to our Prestige AC system, merely notable. Agreed?
> One thing I am unsure of is, aside from the refrigerant oil already in the new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil is added to the system for other components during refurbishment? Putting the question another way, ignoring the refrigerant oil volume included in any new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil was added to the system for other components during assembly as specified for the original Oz Prestige AC system in our vans? TIA. Cheers. Ken
>
Be assured complaints from wives don't stop because they are comfortable. They will always find something else to whine about regardless.
You need a good set of head phones and an I-pod turned up very loud. Cricket padding also helps when they start turning violent.
At least you can keep you mind on the road then.
Cheers,
Skot
On 24/11/2011 10:05 PM, Ben wrote:I have Prestidge AC,and I have the same AC vents as Yurik and Ken.
I hope to get my AC running before Xmas.Yuriks comments on his AC, has given me hope that one day,I may be able to drive in coolness and peacefulness(whingingless).
BTW,I have a Prestidge compressor if someone wants one.
BenC
--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> My on-dash unit looks the same as Yuriks. I have seen taller units in other syncros, don't know though what brand of install they are. Ken
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: gregespo73@...
> Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 01:51:07 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks for chiming in Yurik. I thought you might have that vent. Does the cabin temp come down as much as in a modern car? Or is it more like it brings it down to a bearable level? I might have a go at opening up the vents or adding one through the ashtray like the U.S. behr systems had. Greg E
> From: Yurik Orlowsky <yuriko@...>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 7:02 PM
> Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
>
>
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> GregMy Prestige ac probably has more air flow as the unit sits on top of the dash and has 5 vents blowing into the cabin. See attached photo of the unit, with red Kimberly dust in the vents from our recent trip to the NW.Yurik From:
> Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greg esposito
> Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 2:25 PM
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system Ken, I have a "modern" compressor. The system was retrofitted to r134a in 2008. The air temp is a constant 1-3 degrees at the vents. If there was a fault with my system it just would not cycle consistanty at this temp. There is just not enough air coming out to cool the cabin. Mark was telling me at the dotvw that he had a rear evap fitted. Does
> Yurik/yourself have the big vent box on top of the dash? Mine employs the original face vents plus only one extra face vent in the middle of the dash next to the radio. It is possible Yuriks has more air flow than mine. Also I have not made any attempt to seal the cabin (carbon monoxide vent and fridge vent). I think alot of the cold air escapes or is diluted through these air leaks. I think the curtain is a no brainer if you dont have rear passengers why cool the rest of the cabin? I am not trying to put you off your project just saying after you get your standard presige system working you may need to do some extra work to make it comfortable in the cabin. Good luck. Greg E From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...>
> To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PM
> Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system Greg,I presently can't agree with your contentions, except for the idea of a curtain behind the front seats. Graham Adams has installed one, apparently works
> well. I'm happy to give the refurbishment a try, encouraged by a detailed post in 2008 from Yurik in Perth, as follows ...... Ken,My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it to be ineffective.
> At one point when a re-gas was needed, I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling significantly. Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the new engine (2003) came with a compressor which was retro fitted to the existing system and this combination produced very crisp cold air, a huge improvement. I have come to the conclusion that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have. One of my friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac. With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be modified and new hose connectors installed to suit the compressor used. All other components
> remain.If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the existing bracket then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade. The remaining things are to get new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX valve and receiver-drier. I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring connectors. Any decrease of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be made up by using longer Al tails on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the components in the system are re-used i.e.,
> condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and ask them to do a re-gas. Make sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and contaminants. Have a pressure test using Nitrogen gas and as well, a vacuum leak down test. Make sure they use extra oil because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably inject a UV sensitive dye with the R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to return to them after approx. 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one would expect a slow reduction of efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of the gas through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks. For the moment I am keeping cool. Regards Yurik 21/11/2008 So thanks very much again Yurik.This leaves me then with my original questions the subject of this post, if anyone has something specific to add along those lines, I'd
> much appreciate it asap. TIA. Cheers.
> KenTo: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: gregespo73@...
> Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
>
> Ken unless you are putting an air curtain behind the driver or an additional evaporator in the rear, save your money. The evaporator size and fan capacity are just insufficient for a five metre long box. If the in dash thing would have worked VW would have done it. Instead they put a massive duct from rear to front. I guess your lucky as from what I understand you probably won't have rear passengers which to me says go the
> plastic curtain. Greg E From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...>
> To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PM
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system All, I am about to embark on the refurbishment of the erm ... "much loved" Prestige AC system in my syncro. Touch wood. Wish me luck. Please see the attached files re the new Zexel compressor that will be swapped in for the 20yo Sanden 709 as well as the pdf fluid volume spec files for Vanagon AC systems. I suspect these Vanagon fluid volumes are not relevant to our Prestige AC system, merely notable. Agreed?
> One thing I am unsure of is, aside from the refrigerant oil already in the new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil is added to the system for other components during refurbishment? Putting the question another way, ignoring the refrigerant oil volume included in any new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil was added to the system for other components during assembly as specified for the original Oz Prestige AC system in our vans? TIA. Cheers. Ken
>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 01:51:07 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 7:02 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 2:25 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
Ken
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
Greg,In case you haven't seen this attachment re Vanagon AC install .... interesting challenge!Cheers.KenFrom: gregespo73@yahoo.comDate: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 01:51:07 -0800Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC systemThanks for chiming in Yurik. I thought you might have that vent. Does the cabin temp come down as much as in a modern car? Or is it more like it brings it down to a bearable level? I might have a go at opening up the vents or adding one through the ashtray like the U.S. behr systems had. Greg EFrom: Yurik Orlowsky <yuriko@iinet.net.au>To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 7:02 PMSubject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC systemGregMy Prestige ac probably has more air flow as the unit sits on top of the dash and has 5 vents blowing into the cabin. See attached photo of the unit, with red Kimberly dust in the vents from our recent trip to the NW.YurikFrom: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greg espositoSent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 2:25 PMTo: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC systemKen, I have a "modern" compressor. The system was retrofitted to r134a in 2008. The air temp is a constant 1-3 degrees at the vents. If there was a fault with my system it just would not cycle consistanty at this temp. There is just not enough air coming out to cool the cabin. Mark was telling me at the dotvw that he had a rear evap fitted. Does Yurik/yourself have the big vent box on top of the dash? Mine employs the original face vents plus only one extra face vent in the middle of the dash next to the radio. It is possible Yuriks has more air flow than mine. Also I have not made any attempt to seal the cabin (carbon monoxide vent and fridge vent). I think alot of the cold air escapes or is diluted through these air leaks. I think the curtain is a no brainer if you dont have rear passengers why cool the rest of the cabin? I am not trying to put you off your project just saying after you get your standard presige system working you may need to do some extra work to make it comfortable in the cabin. Good luck. Greg EFrom: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PMSubject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC systemGreg,I presently can't agree with your contentions, except for the idea of a curtain behind the front seats. Graham Adams has installed one, apparently works well.I'm happy to give the refurbishment a try, encouraged by a detailed post in 2008 from Yurik in Perth, as follows ......Ken,My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it to be ineffective. At one point when a re-gas was needed, I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling significantly. Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the new engine (2003) came with a compressor which was retro fitted to the existing system and this combination produced very crisp cold air, a huge improvement. I have come to the conclusion that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have. One of my friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac.With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be modified and new hose connectors installed to suit the compressor used. All other components remain.If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the existing bracket then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade. The remaining things are to get new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX valve and receiver-drier.I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring connectors. Any decrease of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be made up by using longer Al tails on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the components in the system are re-used i.e., condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and ask them to do a re-gas. Make sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and contaminants. Have a pressure test using Nitrogen gas and as well, a vacuum leak down test. Make sure they use extra oil because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably inject a UV sensitive dye with the R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to return to them after approx. 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one would expect a slow reduction of efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of the gas through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks.For the moment I am keeping cool.RegardsYurik 21/11/2008So thanks very much again Yurik.This leaves me then with my original questions the subject of this post, if anyone has something specific to add along those lines, I'd much appreciate it asap. TIA.Cheers.KenFrom: gregespo73@yahoo.comDate: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC systemKen unless you are putting an air curtain behind the driver or an additional evaporator in the rear, save your money. The evaporator size and fan capacity are just insufficient for a five metre long box. If the in dash thing would have worked VW would have done it. Instead they put a massive duct from rear to front. I guess your lucky as from what I understand you probably won't have rear passengers which to me says go the plastic curtain. Greg EFrom: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PMSubject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC systemAll,I am about to embark on the refurbishment of the erm ... "much loved" Prestige AC system in my syncro. Touch wood. Wish me luck.Please see the attached files re the new Zexel compressor that will be swapped in for the 20yo Sanden 709 as well as the pdf fluid volume spec files for Vanagon AC systems. I suspect these Vanagon fluid volumes are not relevant to our Prestige AC system, merely notable. Agreed?One thing I am unsure of is, aside from the refrigerant oil already in the new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil is added to the system for other components during refurbishment?Putting the question another way, ignoring the refrigerant oil volume included in any new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil was added to the system for other components during assembly as specified for the original Oz Prestige AC system in our vans? TIA.Cheers.Ken
<Vanagon aftermarket AC install.doc>
sent from my electronic leash
On Nov 24, 2011, at 3:53 AM, Scott Pitcher <spbconsulting@bigpond.com> wrote:
Ben,
Be assured complaints from wives don't stop because they are comfortable. They will always find something else to whine about regardless.
You need a good set of head phones and an I-pod turned up very loud. Cricket padding also helps when they start turning violent.
At least you can keep you mind on the road then.
Cheers,
Skot
On 24/11/2011 10:05 PM, Ben wrote:I have Prestidge AC,and I have the same AC vents as Yurik and Ken.
I hope to get my AC running before Xmas.Yuriks comments on his AC, has given me hope that one day,I may be able to drive in coolness and peacefulness(whingingless).
BTW,I have a Prestidge compressor if someone wants one.
BenC
--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> My on-dash unit looks the same as Yuriks. I have seen taller units in other syncros, don't know though what brand of install they are. Ken
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: gregespo73@...
> Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 01:51:07 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
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> Thanks for chiming in Yurik. I thought you might have that vent. Does the cabin temp come down as much as in a modern car? Or is it more like it brings it down to a bearable level? I might have a go at opening up the vents or adding one through the ashtray like the U.S. behr systems had. Greg E
> From: Yurik Orlowsky <yuriko@...>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 7:02 PM
> Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
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> GregMy Prestige ac probably has more air flow as the unit sits on top of the dash and has 5 vents blowing into the cabin. See attached photo of the unit, with red Kimberly dust in the vents from our recent trip to the NW.Yurik From:
> Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greg esposito
> Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 2:25 PM
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system Ken, I have a "modern" compressor. The system was retrofitted to r134a in 2008. The air temp is a constant 1-3 degrees at the vents. If there was a fault with my system it just would not cycle consistanty at this temp. There is just not enough air coming out to cool the cabin. Mark was telling me at the dotvw that he had a rear evap fitted. Does
> Yurik/yourself have the big vent box on top of the dash? Mine employs the original face vents plus only one extra face vent in the middle of the dash next to the radio. It is possible Yuriks has more air flow than mine. Also I have not made any attempt to seal the cabin (carbon monoxide vent and fridge vent). I think alot of the cold air escapes or is diluted through these air leaks. I think the curtain is a no brainer if you dont have rear passengers why cool the rest of the cabin? I am not trying to put you off your project just saying after you get your standard presige system working you may need to do some extra work to make it comfortable in the cabin. Good luck. Greg E From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...>
> To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PM
> Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system Greg,I presently can't agree with your contentions, except for the idea of a curtain behind the front seats. Graham Adams has installed one, apparently works
> well. I'm happy to give the refurbishment a try, encouraged by a detailed post in 2008 from Yurik in Perth, as follows ...... Ken,My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it to be ineffective.
> At one point when a re-gas was needed, I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling significantly. Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the new engine (2003) came with a compressor which was retro fitted to the existing system and this combination produced very crisp cold air, a huge improvement. I have come to the conclusion that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have. One of my friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac. With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be modified and new hose connectors installed to suit the compressor used. All other components
> remain.If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the existing bracket then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade. The remaining things are to get new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX valve and receiver-drier. I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring connectors. Any decrease of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be made up by using longer Al tails on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the components in the system are re-used i.e.,
> condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and ask them to do a re-gas. Make sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and contaminants. Have a pressure test using Nitrogen gas and as well, a vacuum leak down test. Make sure they use extra oil because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably inject a UV sensitive dye with the R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to return to them after approx. 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one would expect a slow reduction of efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of the gas through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks. For the moment I am keeping cool. Regards Yurik 21/11/2008 So thanks very much again Yurik.This leaves me then with my original questions the subject of this post, if anyone has something specific to add along those lines, I'd
> much appreciate it asap. TIA. Cheers.
> KenTo: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: gregespo73@...
> Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
>
> Ken unless you are putting an air curtain behind the driver or an additional evaporator in the rear, save your money. The evaporator size and fan capacity are just insufficient for a five metre long box. If the in dash thing would have worked VW would have done it. Instead they put a massive duct from rear to front. I guess your lucky as from what I understand you probably won't have rear passengers which to me says go the
> plastic curtain. Greg E From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...>
> To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PM
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system All, I am about to embark on the refurbishment of the erm ... "much loved" Prestige AC system in my syncro. Touch wood. Wish me luck. Please see the attached files re the new Zexel compressor that will be swapped in for the 20yo Sanden 709 as well as the pdf fluid volume spec files for Vanagon AC systems. I suspect these Vanagon fluid volumes are not relevant to our Prestige AC system, merely notable. Agreed?
> One thing I am unsure of is, aside from the refrigerant oil already in the new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil is added to the system for other components during refurbishment? Putting the question another way, ignoring the refrigerant oil volume included in any new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil was added to the system for other components during assembly as specified for the original Oz Prestige AC system in our vans? TIA. Cheers. Ken
>
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, 25 November 2011 12:05 AM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 01:51:07 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 7:02 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 2:25 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
Ken
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: syncro@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 06:37:14 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
Greg,In case you haven't seen this attachment re Vanagon AC install .... interesting challenge!Cheers.KenFrom: gregespo73@yahoo.comDate: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 01:51:07 -0800Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC systemThanks for chiming in Yurik. I thought you might have that vent. Does the cabin temp come down as much as in a modern car? Or is it more like it brings it down to a bearable level? I might have a go at opening up the vents or adding one through the ashtray like the U.S. behr systems had. Greg EFrom: Yurik Orlowsky <yuriko@iinet.net.au>To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 7:02 PMSubject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC systemGregMy Prestige ac probably has more air flow as the unit sits on top of the dash and has 5 vents blowing into the cabin. See attached photo of the unit, with red Kimberly dust in the vents from our recent trip to the NW.YurikFrom: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greg espositoSent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 2:25 PMTo: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC systemKen, I have a "modern" compressor. The system was retrofitted to r134a in 2008. The air temp is a constant 1-3 degrees at the vents. If there was a fault with my system it just would not cycle consistanty at this temp. There is just not enough air coming out to cool the cabin. Mark was telling me at the dotvw that he had a rear evap fitted. Does Yurik/yourself have the big vent box on top of the dash? Mine employs the original face vents plus only one extra face vent in the middle of the dash next to the radio. It is possible Yuriks has more air flow than mine. Also I have not made any attempt to seal the cabin (carbon monoxide vent and fridge vent). I think alot of the cold air escapes or is diluted through these air leaks. I think the curtain is a no brainer if you dont have rear passengers why cool the rest of the cabin? I am not trying to put you off your project just saying after you get your standard presige system working you may need to do some extra work to make it comfortable in the cabin. Good luck. Greg EFrom: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PMSubject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC systemGreg,I presently can't agree with your contentions, except for the idea of a curtain behind the front seats. Graham Adams has installed one, apparently works well.I'm happy to give the refurbishment a try, encouraged by a detailed post in 2008 from Yurik in Perth, as follows ......Ken,My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it to be ineffective. At one point when a re-gas was needed, I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling significantly. Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the new engine (2003) came with a compressor which was retro fitted to the existing system and this combination produced very crisp cold air, a huge improvement. I have come to the conclusion that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have. One of my friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac.With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be modified and new hose connectors installed to suit the compressor used. All other components remain.If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the existing bracket then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade. The remaining things are to get new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX valve and receiver-drier.I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring connectors. Any decrease of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be made up by using longer Al tails on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the components in the system are re-used i.e., condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and ask them to do a re-gas. Make sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and contaminants. Have a pressure test using Nitrogen gas and as well, a vacuum leak down test. Make sure they use extra oil because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably inject a UV sensitive dye with the R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to return to them after approx. 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one would expect a slow reduction of efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of the gas through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks.For the moment I am keeping cool.RegardsYurik 21/11/2008So thanks very much again Yurik.This leaves me then with my original questions the subject of this post, if anyone has something specific to add along those lines, I'd much appreciate it asap. TIA.Cheers.KenFrom: gregespo73@yahoo.comDate: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC systemKen unless you are putting an air curtain behind the driver or an additional evaporator in the rear, save your money. The evaporator size and fan capacity are just insufficient for a five metre long box. If the in dash thing would have worked VW would have done it. Instead they put a massive duct from rear to front. I guess your lucky as from what I understand you probably won't have rear passengers which to me says go the plastic curtain. Greg EFrom: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PMSubject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC systemAll,I am about to embark on the refurbishment of the erm ... "much loved" Prestige AC system in my syncro. Touch wood. Wish me luck.Please see the attached files re the new Zexel compressor that will be swapped in for the 20yo Sanden 709 as well as the pdf fluid volume spec files for Vanagon AC systems. I suspect these Vanagon fluid volumes are not relevant to our Prestige AC system, merely notable. Agreed?One thing I am unsure of is, aside from the refrigerant oil already in the new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil is added to the system for other components during refurbishment?Putting the question another way, ignoring the refrigerant oil volume included in any new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil was added to the system for other components during assembly as specified for the original Oz Prestige AC system in our vans? TIA.Cheers.Ken
<Vanagon aftermarket AC install.doc>
To: syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com
From: unclekenz@hotmail.com
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 07:28:11 +1100
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: syncro@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 06:37:14 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
Greg,In case you haven't seen this attachment re Vanagon AC install .... interesting challenge!Cheers.KenFrom: gregespo73@yahoo.comDate: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 01:51:07 -0800Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC systemThanks for chiming in Yurik. I thought you might have that vent. Does the cabin temp come down as much as in a modern car? Or is it more like it brings it down to a bearable level? I might have a go at opening up the vents or adding one through the ashtray like the U.S. behr systems had. Greg EFrom: Yurik Orlowsky <yuriko@iinet.net.au>To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 7:02 PMSubject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC systemGregMy Prestige ac probably has more air flow as the unit sits on top of the dash and has 5 vents blowing into the cabin. See attached photo of the unit, with red Kimberly dust in the vents from our recent trip to the NW.YurikFrom: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greg espositoSent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 2:25 PMTo: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC systemKen, I have a "modern" compressor. The system was retrofitted to r134a in 2008. The air temp is a constant 1-3 degrees at the vents. If there was a fault with my system it just would not cycle consistanty at this temp. There is just not enough air coming out to cool the cabin. Mark was telling me at the dotvw that he had a rear evap fitted. Does Yurik/yourself have the big vent box on top of the dash? Mine employs the original face vents plus only one extra face vent in the middle of the dash next to the radio. It is possible Yuriks has more air flow than mine. Also I have not made any attempt to seal the cabin (carbon monoxide vent and fridge vent). I think alot of the cold air escapes or is diluted through these air leaks. I think the curtain is a no brainer if you dont have rear passengers why cool the rest of the cabin? I am not trying to put you off your project just saying after you get your standard presige system working you may need to do some extra work to make it comfortable in the cabin. Good luck. Greg EFrom: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PMSubject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC systemGreg,I presently can't agree with your contentions, except for the idea of a curtain behind the front seats. Graham Adams has installed one, apparently works well.I'm happy to give the refurbishment a try, encouraged by a detailed post in 2008 from Yurik in Perth, as follows ......Ken,My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it to be ineffective. At one point when a re-gas was needed, I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling significantly. Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the new engine (2003) came with a compressor which was retro fitted to the existing system and this combination produced very crisp cold air, a huge improvement. I have come to the conclusion that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have. One of my friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac.With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be modified and new hose connectors installed to suit the compressor used. All other components remain.If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the existing bracket then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade. The remaining things are to get new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX valve and receiver-drier.I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring connectors. Any decrease of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be made up by using longer Al tails on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the components in the system are re-used i.e., condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and ask them to do a re-gas. Make sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and contaminants. Have a pressure test using Nitrogen gas and as well, a vacuum leak down test. Make sure they use extra oil because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably inject a UV sensitive dye with the R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to return to them after approx. 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one would expect a slow reduction of efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of the gas through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks.For the moment I am keeping cool.RegardsYurik 21/11/2008So thanks very much again Yurik.This leaves me then with my original questions the subject of this post, if anyone has something specific to add along those lines, I'd much appreciate it asap. TIA.Cheers.KenFrom: gregespo73@yahoo.comDate: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC systemKen unless you are putting an air curtain behind the driver or an additional evaporator in the rear, save your money. The evaporator size and fan capacity are just insufficient for a five metre long box. If the in dash thing would have worked VW would have done it. Instead they put a massive duct from rear to front. I guess your lucky as from what I understand you probably won't have rear passengers which to me says go the plastic curtain. Greg EFrom: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PMSubject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC systemAll,I am about to embark on the refurbishment of the erm ... "much loved" Prestige AC system in my syncro. Touch wood. Wish me luck.Please see the attached files re the new Zexel compressor that will be swapped in for the 20yo Sanden 709 as well as the pdf fluid volume spec files for Vanagon AC systems. I suspect these Vanagon fluid volumes are not relevant to our Prestige AC system, merely notable. Agreed?One thing I am unsure of is, aside from the refrigerant oil already in the new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil is added to the system for other components during refurbishment?Putting the question another way, ignoring the refrigerant oil volume included in any new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil was added to the system for other components during assembly as specified for the original Oz Prestige AC system in our vans? TIA.Cheers.Ken
<Vanagon aftermarket AC install.doc>
Ken, you have seen mine 2 weeks ago, it is Prestige and has 3 vents and is taller than yours....I took the cover off the other day and found that the evaporator had some sort of foam cloth (pollen filter ?) installed at at the air exit side. I have taken that thing out as it (to me) doesn’t serve any other purpose then obstructing the airflow. Worx better now. Hartmut
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken Garratt
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 9:09 PM
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
My on-dash unit looks the same as Yuriks. I have seen taller units in other syncros, don't know though what brand of install they are.
Ken
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 01:51:07 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
Thanks for chiming in Yurik. I thought you might have that vent. Does the cabin temp come down as much as in a modern car? Or is it more like it brings it down to a bearable level? I might have a go at opening up the vents or adding one through the ashtray like the U.S. behr systems had. Greg E
From: Yurik Orlowsky <yuriko@iinet.net.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 7:02 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
Greg
My Prestige ac probably has more air flow as the unit sits on top of the dash and has 5 vents blowing into the cabin. See attached photo of the unit, with red Kimberly dust in the vents from our recent trip to the NW.
Yurik
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of greg esposito
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 2:25 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
Ken, I have a "modern" compressor. The system was retrofitted to r134a in 2008. The air temp is a constant 1-3 degrees at the vents. If there was a fault with my system it just would not cycle consistanty at this temp. There is just not enough air coming out to cool the cabin. Mark was telling me at the dotvw that he had a rear evap fitted. Does Yurik/yourself have the big vent box on top of the dash? Mine employs the original face vents plus only one extra face vent in the middle of the dash next to the radio. It is possible Yuriks has more air flow than mine. Also I have not made any attempt to seal the cabin (carbon monoxide vent and fridge vent). I think alot of the cold air escapes or is diluted through these air leaks. I think the curtain is a no brainer if you dont have rear passengers why cool the rest of the cabin? I am not trying to put you off your project just saying after you get your standard presige system working you may need to do some extra work to make it comfortable in the cabin. Good luck. Greg E
From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 4:01 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
Greg,
I presently can't agree with your contentions, except for the idea of a curtain behind the front seats. Graham Adams has installed one, apparently works well.
I'm happy to give the refurbishment a try, encouraged by a detailed post in 2008 from Yurik in Perth, as follows ......
Ken,
My syncro has the Prestige Auto Air system and I also found it to be ineffective. At one point when a re-gas was needed, I had the XT valve replaced and this improved the cooling significantly. Later when I did the Subaru engine conversion the new engine (2003) came with a compressor which was retro fitted to the existing system and this combination produced very crisp cold air, a huge improvement. I have come to the conclusion that the old compressors are inefficient and the modern new ones are the answer to an aging ac system that we have. One of my friends replaced his compressor in a 2L air cooled VW bus with a smaller modern one and it transformed his ac.
With the T3, the engine compressor bracket would have to be modified and new hose connectors installed to suit the compressor used. All other components remain.
If you can get a new modern compressor that bolts straight on the existing bracket then that would be the major part of the ac upgrade. The remaining things are to get new fittings on the hoses to connect to the compressor, new TX valve and receiver-drier.
I would use Hose Masters/Enzed or similar to crimp on new o-ring connectors. Any decrease of length as the result of cutting off the old fittings can be made up by using longer Al tails on the new fittings, all available off the shelf. The rest of the components in the system are re-used i.e., condenser, evaporator, thermostat, pressure switch and hoses.
I would then present the completed system to an ac specialist and ask them to do a re-gas. Make sure that the system is flushed to remove any R12, oil and contaminants. Have a pressure test using Nitrogen gas and as well, a vacuum leak down test. Make sure they use extra oil because of the longer hoses in the syncro. They will probably inject a UV sensitive dye with the R134A for leak checking post re-gas. It would be a good idea to return to them after approx. 600km with good use of the ac for a further leak test.
My ac has remained very cold now some 3yrs later. However one would expect a slow reduction of efficiency after 5yrs or so due to the slow molecular diffusion of the gas through the long rubber hoses and seal leaks.
For the moment I am keeping cool.
Regards
Yurik 21/11/2008
So thanks very much again Yurik.
This leaves me then with my original questions the subject of this post, if anyone has something specific to add along those lines, I'd much appreciate it asap. TIA.
Cheers.
Ken
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: gregespo73@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:47:13 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
Ken unless you are putting an air curtain behind the driver or an additional evaporator in the rear, save your money. The evaporator size and fan capacity are just insufficient for a five metre long box. If the in dash thing would have worked VW would have done it. Instead they put a massive duct from rear to front. I guess your lucky as from what I understand you probably won't have rear passengers which to me says go the plastic curtain. Greg E
From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2011 1:06 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Prestige AC system
All,
I am about to embark on the refurbishment of the erm ... "much loved" Prestige AC system in my syncro. Touch wood. Wish me luck.
Please see the attached files re the new Zexel compressor that will be swapped in for the 20yo Sanden 709 as well as the pdf fluid volume spec files for Vanagon AC systems. I suspect these Vanagon fluid volumes are not relevant to our Prestige AC system, merely notable. Agreed?
One thing I am unsure of is, aside from the refrigerant oil already in the new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil is added to the system for other components during refurbishment?
Putting the question another way, ignoring the refrigerant oil volume included in any new compressor, how much extra total volume of same refrigerant oil was added to the system for other components during assembly as specified for the original Oz Prestige AC system in our vans? TIA.
Cheers.
Ken