R&R water pump

unclekenz · 1 December 2010 01:41

All,

Looks like it's finally happened to me too ..... and out of the blue, for no particular reason other than I'm guessing ... its old age. It may well be the original pump, if so, then it's done 202,000klms.

I recently noticed a coolant leak and traced it as coming from the drain hole on the water pump housing, so I assume the internal seal on the water pump shaft has finally spat the dummy ... nicely timed for pre Xmas break/businesses closures/Batemans Bay Tour prepping.

I've been boning up on past posts and links, hopefully to find enough courage to attempt this R&R insitu procedure. I agree, doing this sort of project, the first time is always the hardest.

However I am still unclear on how far one has to go with dismantling surrounding components so as to enable enough clearance to allow the water pump to be shifted rearwards on the threaded studs so as to clear everything for removal. Anyone know please, with some clarity?

For example, it seems to be accepted that the main drive pulley doesn't require removal. Assuming that is the case, how does one then deal with the metal coolant pipe bolted to the RHS of the water pump housing and running horizontally across behind and toward the bottom of the main drive pulley? Does this pipe, once unbolted from the water pump, have to be physically removed altogether for clearance reasons or can it simply be angled up or down to clear for the water pump housing removal? It'd be nice if it didn't require removal but someone may say otherwise?

Some say remove the tinware ... yes or no or just loosen it to offer some better access for tools to bolts, clamps, screws etc if needed or is it really unnecessary ... just leave the tinware as is.

Some say remove the complete distributor for necessary better access for tools etc .... yes or no? Or just remove the distributor cap and rotor or leave as is?

Any other critical procedure and/or component issue I need to know about?

Any help, hints and tips for a successful water pump changeover would be welcome. TIA.

Cheers.
Ken

francesca.coles · 1 December 2010 01:54

Hi Ken,

Bad luck. We had that happen last Christmas eve by the side of the Hume with a Syncro fully laden with presents, excited kids, bikes, etc.

I hope you get some advice about the R&R job - obviously I'm not the one to enlighten you.

You probably are aware of this already, but when ours went we were strongly advised to replace the plastic 'christmas tree' (aptly named) with an after-market stainless steel one, as the original plastic ones all fail sooner of later.

Anyway, just in case it's helpful there's a link below to the GoWesty one:

http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_details.php?id=4328&category_id=79&category_parent_id=

Francesca.

On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:

All,

Looks like it's finally happened to me too ..... and out of the blue, for no particular reason other than I'm guessing ... its old age. It may well be the original pump, if so, then it's done 202,000klms.

I recently noticed a coolant leak and traced it as coming from the drain hole on the water pump housing, so I assume the internal seal on the water pump shaft has finally spat the dummy ... nicely timed for pre Xmas break/businesses closures/Batemans Bay Tour prepping.

I've been boning up on past posts and links, hopefully to find enough courage to attempt this R&R insitu procedure. I agree, doing this sort of project, the first time is always the hardest.

However I am still unclear on how far one has to go with dismantling surrounding components so as to enable enough clearance to allow the water pump to be shifted rearwards on the threaded studs so as to clear everything for removal. Anyone know please, with some clarity?

For example, it seems to be accepted that the main drive pulley doesn't require removal. Assuming that is the case, how does one then deal with the metal coolant pipe bolted to the RHS of the water pump housing and running horizontally across behind and toward the bottom of the main drive pulley? Does this pipe, once unbolted from the water pump, have to be physically removed altogether for clearance reasons or can it simply be angled up or down to clear for the water pump housing removal? It'd be nice if it didn't require removal but someone may say otherwise?

Some say remove the tinware ... yes or no or just loosen it to offer some better access for tools to bolts, clamps, screws etc if needed or is it really unnecessary ... just leave the tinware as is.

Some say remove the complete distributor for necessary better access for tools etc .... yes or no? Or just remove the distributor cap and rotor or leave as is?

Any other critical procedure and/or component issue I need to know about?

Any help, hints and tips for a successful water pump changeover would be welcome. TIA.

Cheers.
Ken

turbovan2001 · 1 December 2010 02:24

how matter how you do it , the job sucks, compared to how easy it could be if they had thought at all about how to change the water pump 'in service.' Apparently they only thought about bolting the w .pump to the bare block while building the engine.

here's what I do ..

I do remove the distirbutor to help a bit with access..

but it only barely helps. Removing cap and rotor only isn't of any use.

so either leave the whole thing there, or take off cap , then remove distributor.

it helps 'a little' at best. Gives one a minor pychological 'boost' to be able to see the w. pump a little better. AC makes it even worse of a job of course.

tinware ...remove the left outside lower one to help access the allen bolts holding that large metal pipe onto the w. pump. .

all other tinware leave in place.

it would be wonderful if the main pulley would come off easily ..

but it doesn't at all. So just leave it there.

yes, that pipe will 'fiddle around' enough to get the w. pump clear of it...

that pipe trapped behind the crank pulley ..it's captured in there ..

but it will move around, enough to get things aprart, but it won't come out. like I said ..

they gave zero thought to making the job reasonable.

here's one trick ...

that pipe, the one that goes behind the crank pulley ..

on the water pump end, don't put the stock allen screws back in. Instead get M8 X 1.25 bolts of the right length ....with a 12mm hex head ..

and there are a few of those that exist with 10mm heads..

the reason being ..

they are so much easier to deal with than the allen screws there.

I have spend well over an hour on just the one lower allen screw. Like I said ..

the job sucks and it could have been designed to be so much easier. and without much effort too. .

yes..the w. pump just barely fits off over the studs that it's mounted with. Might have to pry or 'persuaude'.

oh...the w. pump pully bolts ..

take off the w. pump pulley right away of course ..

a large square shafted screw driver makes a nice holder tool on those pulley bolts.

check alternator bearings while alt / w. pump belt is off...I find tired alternator bearings now and then.

also check alternator mounting ..

they are notorious for breaking the bracket, getting loose, even breaking off the studs in the engine block the bracket sits on.

scott

www.turbovans.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Ken Garratt

To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum

Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 5:41 PM

Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] R&R water pump

All,

Looks like it's finally happened to me too ..... and out of the blue, for no particular reason other than I'm guessing ... its old age. It may well be the original pump, if so, then it's done 202,000klms.

I recently noticed a coolant leak and traced it as coming from the drain hole on the water pump housing, so I assume the internal seal on the water pump shaft has finally spat the dummy ... nicely timed for pre Xmas break/businesses closures/Batemans Bay Tour prepping.

I've been boning up on past posts and links, hopefully to find enough courage to attempt this R&R insitu procedure. I agree, doing this sort of project, the first time is always the hardest.

However I am still unclear on how far one has to go with dismantling surrounding components so as to enable enough clearance to allow the water pump to be shifted rearwards on the threaded studs so as to clear everything for removal. Anyone know please, with some clarity?

For example, it seems to be accepted that the main drive pulley doesn't require removal. Assuming that is the case, how does one then deal with the metal coolant pipe bolted to the RHS of the water pump housing and running horizontally across behind and toward the bottom of the main drive pulley? Does this pipe, once unbolted from the water pump, have to be physically removed altogether for clearance reasons or can it simply be angled up or down to clear for the water pump housing removal? It'd be nice if it didn't require removal but someone may say otherwise?

Some say remove the tinware ... yes or no or just loosen it to offer some better access for tools to bolts, clamps, screws etc if needed or is it really unnecessary ... just leave the tinware as is.

Some say remove the complete distributor for necessary better access for tools etc .... yes or no? Or just remove the distributor cap and rotor or leave as is?

Any other critical procedure and/or component issue I need to know about?

Any help, hints and tips for a successful water pump changeover would be welcome. TIA.

Cheers.
Ken

unclekenz · 1 December 2010 04:09

Francesca,
Thank you and you are correct of course, with one rider. Why stop there? For greater chances of reliability ... replace ALL components of the 20yo cooling system! Though I think I may need to sell my home first ... haha, my better half would definitely NOT be amused!

I do carry a used spare original plastic tree, refurbished by me would you believe? For those who may be interested, I repaired the tree with JB Weld. For details, goto: http://jbweld.net/products/jbweld.php . It is available here in Oz from "Bursons" auto parts stores. Not cheap, but a brilliant product, especially around syncros.

Interestingly and with all due respect to our USA members here, I bought this used plastic tree from an American on The Samba. He told me in response to my query seeking detailed information from him as to its present condition ... he replied, "It's in good shape". Can't say I was happy with the brevity at the time but I chose to take a punt nevertheless. On arrival, a cursory look indicated that it was indeed "in good shape". A closer look and a test and my worst fears were founded ... his answer didn't really address my question .. as it leaked like a sieve. Hence my decision to repair it, one day I may get to properly test it.

To this day, I have yet to fully comprehend the subtlelty, true meaning, usage and usefullness of the oft used glib american phrase ... "It's in good shape". Can anyone enlighten me please? Obviously it worked for the seller, regrettably though not the buyer.

Cheers.

Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: fcoles6@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 12:54:39 +1100
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] R&R water pump

Hi Ken,

Bad luck. We had that happen last Christmas eve by the side of the Hume with a Syncro fully laden with presents, excited kids, bikes, etc.

I hope you get some advice about the R&R job - obviously I'm not the one to enlighten you.

You probably are aware of this already, but when ours went we were strongly advised to replace the plastic 'christmas tree' (aptly named) with an after-market stainless steel one, as the original plastic ones all fail sooner of later.

Anyway, just in case it's helpful there's a link below to the GoWesty one:

http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_details.php?id=4328&category_id=79&category_parent_id=

Francesca.

On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:

All,

Looks like it's finally happened to me too ..... and out of the blue, for no particular reason other than I'm guessing ... its old age. It may well be the original pump, if so, then it's done 202,000klms.

I recently noticed a coolant leak and traced it as coming from the drain hole on the water pump housing, so I assume the internal seal on the water pump shaft has finally spat the dummy ... nicely timed for pre Xmas break/businesses closures/Batemans Bay Tour prepping.

I've been boning up on past posts and links, hopefully to find enough courage to attempt this R&R insitu procedure. I agree, doing this sort of project, the first time is always the hardest.

However I am still unclear on how far one has to go with dismantling surrounding components so as to enable enough clearance to allow the water pump to be shifted rearwards on the threaded studs so as to clear everything for removal. Anyone know please, with some clarity?

For example, it seems to be accepted that the main drive pulley doesn't require removal. Assuming that is the case, how does one then deal with the metal coolant pipe bolted to the RHS of the water pump housing and running horizontally across behind and toward the bottom of the main drive pulley? Does this pipe, once unbolted from the water pump, have to be physically removed altogether for clearance reasons or can it simply be angled up or down to clear for the water pump housing removal? It'd be nice if it didn't require removal but someone may say otherwise?

Some say remove the tinware ... yes or no or just loosen it to offer some better access for tools to bolts, clamps, screws etc if needed or is it really unnecessary ... just leave the tinware as is.

Some say remove the complete distributor for necessary better access for tools etc .... yes or no? Or just remove the distributor cap and rotor or leave as is?

Any other critical procedure and/or component issue I need to know about?

Any help, hints and tips for a successful water pump changeover would be welcome. TIA.

Cheers.
Ken

turbovan2001 · 1 December 2010 04:49

listen...

I could almost say 'most people' are sloppy about their used parts they have for sale.

Let's say 'many people' are that way.

really ..

you can expect there will be things 'weak' about many used parts.

an example..

guy here in the US bought some turbo diesel parts off ebay ..

the parts came from the UK.

one of them ..a cast aluminum elbow had for things wrong with it..

and it was sold as 'ready to go' .

It was cracked,

it had been repaired with silicone,

it was warped where it bolted up to the flange , etc.

I had to get it repaired by a chap who could weld aluminum nicely ..

then have it resurfaced and so on.

it cost more to repair the suppossidly good part than it did to buy it used in the first place.

I would not say this is a US thing..

I find sloppiness like to this to be pretty universal.

I know german suppliers that do the same thing ..say it's fine..

yet when I get my hands on it, it's hacked, it's got broken parts, it's missing parts etc...

really ..

I got an good used 1.9 TD engine recently ..

it was so smashed and rusty with chopped hoses and lines on it ..

I could not in a million years sell it as a good used unit.

I had to work on that engine for a few hours until it was finally something useful to start with.

it's far too typical.

my joke saying about it regarding used engines from junkyards...

as in subaru engine conversions is that there is a federal law that there must be broken and missing parts on any used engine or part sold by a junkyard.

they're horribly sloppy.

even when they tell you on the phone 'yep, it's all there and in good shape' ..

they are just lying, or 'thinking wishfully' ..

or their standards are just super low I suppose. Real shame.

you know .......the german guy I mentioned above ..

and other vendors too..

the customer said he got 'the diesel vanagon mouting kit, the whole thing' ..

I knew right there it wasn't a complete set.

and it wasn't either.

then when we asked for a real T3 'clutch dust shield' ...a sheet metal part by the flywheel..

the guy sends one for a jetta, not even the right part.

that is far too typical..

and not isolated to the US...it's universal.

heck....another customer ..

he doesn't know..he's buying stuff off ebay proported to be what it is not really.

Spent money on the right injector lines....the ones that fit a JX engine ..

the seller was just full of baloney ..

totally the wrong part, again.

and not a true honest mistake likely ..

more like 'wishful thinking ' that it's probably right...so sell it and deal with it later.

there is a lot of that.

you ought to hear what I think of most professional car repair ..

I see litterally thousands of examples of very poor work done on cars..

I could write a 6 vollume book on bad car work I've seen ..

really.

some 'repairs' are done so poorly and incorrectly it's just comical.

And actually ...much of what I do on T3's is correcting incorrecty done work on them.

unfortunately ..

there seems to be some madate that one is suppossed to gain off others..

and I will say this culture was founded on greed and explotation ..

and they're still doing it ..

some people think it's just fine to misrepresent something.......lie now, deal with it later..

and maybe you'll never have to take it back anyway.

I'll stop ..but check out most advertising...

most advertising is a lie.

any time you see 'the ultimate' anything ..

it's not ..it's just something the company selling believes is a good value for the price..

and they should say that ..

that would be the truth.

How people even have the gaul, or 'permission' to try to gain off others is simply beyond me. I just don't get it, but it's very, very common.

Hell, even our own goverment lies to us ! ..

and yours too probably.

so don't believe a lot of what you see ..

there's a famous saying about that ..

something like 'believe none of what you hear, and half of what you see' ...

something like that.

when I sell a part..

if it's not perfect...I tell 'em, in detail what is not perfect about it.

whether there are more scam artists in the US ....well there sure are a lot, but I can think of many other cultures where it's quite common too.

There's one entire country that loves to make things so cheap ..just push and push it on lowering the quality........man that makes me sick. You buy something brand new like a shop light ..

you get it home ...doesn't even work brand new. Or cheap tools ...especially electrical ones ..

their disposible...

they're cheap, you use it a few times, it breaks. Then you toss in landfill, to be dug up in 200 years if humans last that long. What a waste.

I highly encourage not participating in very cheap products. It's even getting hard almost to find really quality well made products, including new parts for T3's even.

oh well !

I wish humans would treat each other a lot better. That sure would help !

but it's near universal ..

I don't think the US is very much worse than many cultures about this sort of thing.

scott

www.turbovans.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Ken Garratt

To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum

Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 8:09 PM

Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] R&R water pump

Francesca,
Thank you and you are correct of course, with one rider. Why stop there? For greater chances of reliability ... replace ALL components of the 20yo cooling system! Though I think I may need to sell my home first ... haha, my better half would definitely NOT be amused!

I do carry a used spare original plastic tree, refurbished by me would you believe? For those who may be interested, I repaired the tree with JB Weld. For details, goto: http://jbweld.net/products/jbweld.php . It is available here in Oz from "Bursons" auto parts stores. Not cheap, but a brilliant product, especially around syncros.

Interestingly and with all due respect to our USA members here, I bought this used plastic tree from an American on The Samba. He told me in response to my query seeking detailed information from him as to its present condition ... he replied, "It's in good shape". Can't say I was happy with the brevity at the time but I chose to take a punt nevertheless. On arrival, a cursory look indicated that it was indeed "in good shape". A closer look and a test and my worst fears were founded ... his answer didn't really address my question .. as it leaked like a sieve. Hence my decision to repair it, one day I may get to properly test it.

To this day, I have yet to fully comprehend the subtlelty, true meaning, usage and usefullness of the oft used glib american phrase ... "It's in good shape". Can anyone enlighten me please? Obviously it worked for the seller, regrettably though not the buyer.

Cheers.

Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: fcoles6@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 12:54:39 +1100
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] R&R water pump

Hi Ken,

Bad luck. We had that happen last Christmas eve by the side of the Hume with a Syncro fully laden with presents, excited kids, bikes, etc.

I hope you get some advice about the R&R job - obviously I'm not the one to enlighten you.

You probably are aware of this already, but when ours went we were strongly advised to replace the plastic 'christmas tree' (aptly named) with an after-market stainless steel one, as the original plastic ones all fail sooner of later.

Anyway, just in case it's helpful there's a link below to the GoWesty one:

http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_details.php?id=4328&category_id=79&category_parent_id=

Francesca.

On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:

All,

Looks like it's finally happened to me too ..... and out of the blue, for no particular reason other than I'm guessing ... its old age. It may well be the original pump, if so, then it's done 202,000klms.

I recently noticed a coolant leak and traced it as coming from the drain hole on the water pump housing, so I assume the internal seal on the water pump shaft has finally spat the dummy ... nicely timed for pre Xmas break/businesses closures/Batemans Bay Tour prepping.

I've been boning up on past posts and links, hopefully to find enough courage to attempt this R&R insitu procedure. I agree, doing this sort of project, the first time is always the hardest.

However I am still unclear on how far one has to go with dismantling surrounding components so as to enable enough clearance to allow the water pump to be shifted rearwards on the threaded studs so as to clear everything for removal. Anyone know please, with some clarity?

For example, it seems to be accepted that the main drive pulley doesn't require removal. Assuming that is the case, how does one then deal with the metal coolant pipe bolted to the RHS of the water pump housing and running horizontally across behind and toward the bottom of the main drive pulley? Does this pipe, once unbolted from the water pump, have to be physically removed altogether for clearance reasons or can it simply be angled up or down to clear for the water pump housing removal? It'd be nice if it didn't require removal but someone may say otherwise?

Some say remove the tinware ... yes or no or just loosen it to offer some better access for tools to bolts, clamps, screws etc if needed or is it really unnecessary ... just leave the tinware as is.

Some say remove the complete distributor for necessary better access for tools etc .... yes or no? Or just remove the distributor cap and rotor or leave as is?

Any other critical procedure and/or component issue I need to know about?

Any help, hints and tips for a successful water pump changeover would be welcome. TIA.

Cheers.
Ken

unclekenz · 1 December 2010 05:42

Scott,

Thank you. Very useful points indeed. It goes to show if one asks the right questions, one can gain the right answers.

Ok so just to delve further into a few of those points, if as you say I merely need to "fiddle around" (we'd also say "juggle") the RHS metal coolant pipe to gain clearance, should I also loosen the clips/break the metal to rubber seal on the centre joiner straight rubber hose first to get more flexing or is this not necessary?

Looking at the LHS big coolant pipe where it bolts to the wp housing, it seems to me that straddling either side of this pipe using say a straight mid to shortish length 6mm allen shaft in a 3/8th socket set adaptor would suffice to take off those 2 allen screws, meaning then no need to use long extensions nor remove the LHS lower tinware. Yes or no or am I overlooking something here? How short should a length of 6mm allen shaft be to avoid breakage? Or some other method?

I haven't tried this yet to see if it works, but crawling under the van and using a half decent torch through a gap in the centre/rear/under tinware, it is possible to sight the head of the bottom allen screw (the most difficult one) of the RHS pipe fastening to the wp housing. This being the case and gingerly threading through a 3/8th socket extension/s, this MAY be feasible to R&R that screw, possibly adding a universal joint as well, of course using a assistant up top to guide the tool into place would be essential. Again yes or no or am I overlooking something here?

If as I suspect all 4 allen screws have never been removed, meaning 20 + years insitu untouched, am I going to have a problem getting that initial release of each screw? If so, any tricks to assist/overcome this major concern, aside from quality tools and WD40 or better?

In a previous post on this topic, you gave links to 2 x R&R procedure wp doccos ... thank you. In one it said for the wp pulley removal procedure, tighten up hugely the V belt in position, put the van into gear and then the pulley bolts will release ok. Is there actually more to this? Are you saying additionally include your suggestion of the square shafted screwdriver and where exactly are you levering from and to where/how on the wp pulley bolts?

I know what you mean about the alternator and its dicky bracket. What a nightmare that can start up there! I've since added the GoWesty stiffener bracket that fastens to the 2 x power steering bracket fastening positions. Of course the problem emanates from vibrations in the alternator when internal worn parts create havoc. Touch wood mine seem to be ok. What a disaster if the crankcase fastening points get damaged in the process! Good points indeed. Thanks a lot for your input.

If nothing else, we may end up with a half decent R&R wp procedure out of this. I for one would like to see that happen.

Cheers.

Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: ScottDaniel@turbovans.com
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 18:24:29 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] R&R water pump

how matter how you do it , the job sucks, compared to how easy it could be if they had thought at all about how to change the water pump 'in service.' Apparently they only thought about bolting the w .pump to the bare block while building the engine.

here's what I do ..

I do remove the distirbutor to help a bit with access..

but it only barely helps. Removing cap and rotor only isn't of any use.

so either leave the whole thing there, or take off cap , then remove distributor.

it helps 'a little' at best. Gives one a minor pychological 'boost' to be able to see the w. pump a little better. AC makes it even worse of a job of course.

tinware ...remove the left outside lower one to help access the allen bolts holding that large metal pipe onto the w. pump. .

all other tinware leave in place.

it would be wonderful if the main pulley would come off easily ..

but it doesn't at all. So just leave it there.

yes, that pipe will 'fiddle around' enough to get the w. pump clear of it...

that pipe trapped behind the crank pulley ..it's captured in there ..

but it will move around, enough to get things aprart, but it won't come out. like I said ..

they gave zero thought to making the job reasonable.

here's one trick ...

that pipe, the one that goes behind the crank pulley ..

on the water pump end, don't put the stock allen screws back in. Instead get M8 X 1.25 bolts of the right length ....with a 12mm hex head ..

and there are a few of those that exist with 10mm heads..

the reason being ..

they are so much easier to deal with than the allen screws there.

I have spend well over an hour on just the one lower allen screw. Like I said ..

the job sucks and it could have been designed to be so much easier. and without much effort too. .

yes..the w. pump just barely fits off over the studs that it's mounted with. Might have to pry or 'persuaude'.

oh...the w. pump pully bolts ..

take off the w. pump pulley right away of course ..

a large square shafted screw driver makes a nice holder tool on those pulley bolts.

check alternator bearings while alt / w. pump belt is off...I find tired alternator bearings now and then.

also check alternator mounting ..

they are notorious for breaking the bracket, getting loose, even breaking off the studs in the engine block the bracket sits on.

scott

www.turbovans.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Ken Garratt

To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum

Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 5:41 PM

Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] R&R water pump

All,

Looks like it's finally happened to me too ..... and out of the blue, for no particular reason other than I'm guessing ... its old age. It may well be the original pump, if so, then it's done 202,000klms.

I recently noticed a coolant leak and traced it as coming from the drain hole on the water pump housing, so I assume the internal seal on the water pump shaft has finally spat the dummy ... nicely timed for pre Xmas break/businesses closures/Batemans Bay Tour prepping.

I've been boning up on past posts and links, hopefully to find enough courage to attempt this R&R insitu procedure. I agree, doing this sort of project, the first time is always the hardest.

However I am still unclear on how far one has to go with dismantling surrounding components so as to enable enough clearance to allow the water pump to be shifted rearwards on the threaded studs so as to clear everything for removal. Anyone know please, with some clarity?

For example, it seems to be accepted that the main drive pulley doesn't require removal. Assuming that is the case, how does one then deal with the metal coolant pipe bolted to the RHS of the water pump housing and running horizontally across behind and toward the bottom of the main drive pulley? Does this pipe, once unbolted from the water pump, have to be physically removed altogether for clearance reasons or can it simply be angled up or down to clear for the water pump housing removal? It'd be nice if it didn't require removal but someone may say otherwise?

Some say remove the tinware ... yes or no or just loosen it to offer some better access for tools to bolts, clamps, screws etc if needed or is it really unnecessary ... just leave the tinware as is.

Some say remove the complete distributor for necessary better access for tools etc .... yes or no? Or just remove the distributor cap and rotor or leave as is?

Any other critical procedure and/or component issue I need to know about?

Any help, hints and tips for a successful water pump changeover would be welcome. TIA.

Cheers.
Ken

turbovan2001 · 1 December 2010 06:16

hi Ken.

good point on the hose in the middle of that pipe.

yes............you do end up loosening the hose clamps so the hose can slide..

or the pipes slide in it ..

there may be a bump...a pin actually ..on the right side of the pipe...that keeps the hose from sliding that direction ..

not certain it's on a syncro ..but if you do find yourself having to loosen that hose ..

there may be a bump on one end of it, part of the pipe. So watch for that if you get into that.

well....the left side tin is only a few screws.

there's no penalty to remove it. ...just a couple minutes. You might have to unplug the oxygen sensor if you have one of those ..

but usually , it is worth it to remove parts in the way as long as it's not too involved..

and it's sure easy to pull that left side tin piece.

re

How short should a length of 6mm allen shaft be to avoid breakage? "

the problem with any allen screws is they can strip out inside ...

the 6mm ones are really bad.

the larger ones on the large black pipe take an 8mm tool I belive ..

much harder to strip those out.

here is a really important trick though ...

on all allen screws ........and CV joint screws..

before you try to unscrew them ...take a good size Ford Wrench ( hammer ......aka BFH ) and a nice straight drift and give each bolt a serious whack or several ..

this has a major affect on 'waking up' the treads, so they will unscrew.

re crawling under the van..

once again ..it is almost always worth it to increase access to what you are working on.

I would never even dream of trying to change a waterpump without jacking up and supporting the engine.

Even if I was doing it on the side of the raod ..

I'd jack things up for access. Seriously ...it will pay off.

and anyway you can get that one bolt out is just fine.

It's the crux of the operation even. And I replace that one with hex headed bolt there.

I always do that one from above.

for your total km on the van ..

I suspect the w. pump has been replaced once.

I regard 70,000 miles as normal life on them ...not very much actually.

re the stuck screws..

the 'whack;' trick above ..

and a very good penetrating oil.

actually , a week before the job, start treating all fastners with penetrating oil...

several times a day for a week.

in other words, a lot more than just when o go to remove the stuck screws.

re

put the van into gear and then the pulley bolts will release ok" ...

don't think that was me.

put a socket on one w. pump bolt..

wedge your square shaft large screw driver, or similar tool....between socket and on of the other bolts...

you'll figure it out.

being 'self actualizing' is a major part of fixing cars.

Of course it's good to have a few tips on a strange new job ...and at some level..

need to come up with your own tricks..

and without damaging anything learning how ! 'that' is the real trick of course.

just be real careful and meticulous ..

one small step at a time.

btw..

I always put something on the threads of all fasteners..

particularily water pump screws.

bone dry metal to metal is bad !

use either teflon paste..

like pipe joint compound from the hardware store ..

or 'tefgell' ...an automotive product just for bolt threads..

or even gasket sealer..

or anti-seize compound.

I've taken out w. pump screws a dozen years later and they just came right out with teflon sealing the treads. Works just great.

here's a belt trick ..

only for when it's very hard to adjust belt tension ...and it's easy on a T3 ..so doesn't really apply.

But you just take a screw driver, place it between belt and pulley at the right angle..

then operate starte with your remote starter switch ( and you should have a 'trigger wire' rigged in your engine compartment, so it's very easy to operate the starter from back there any time you need to ) ...

just crank the engine ...

the belt just pops off.

going back together ...you do the opposite thing ..and the belt is flipped back on.

But that's only where it's hard to adjust the belt tension..

it's super easy on a waterboxer engine of course.

there's a trick for that too ...

( if you don't have a geared tension nut ) ...

you tilt the alternator out to fairly tight ..

you tighen the tension bolt just enough that you can squease with a pliers between the end of the tension bracket and bolt head and bolt will still move in the tension bracket ... ..that gives you fine control of belt tension ..works really nicely.

and no prying with a lever on the side of the alternator.

what fun Sycnro's are !

Scott

www.turbovans.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Ken Garratt

To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum

Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 9:42 PM

Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] R&R water pump

Scott,

Thank you. Very useful points indeed. It goes to show if one asks the right questions, one can gain the right answers.

Ok so just to delve further into a few of those points, if as you say I merely need to "fiddle around" (we'd also say "juggle") the RHS metal coolant pipe to gain clearance, should I also loosen the clips/break the metal to rubber seal on the centre joiner straight rubber hose first to get more flexing or is this not necessary?

Looking at the LHS big coolant pipe where it bolts to the wp housing, it seems to me that straddling either side of this pipe using say a straight mid to shortish length 6mm allen shaft in a 3/8th socket set adaptor would suffice to take off those 2 allen screws, meaning then no need to use long extensions nor remove the LHS lower tinware. Yes or no or am I overlooking something here? How short should a length of 6mm allen shaft be to avoid breakage? Or some other method?

I haven't tried this yet to see if it works, but crawling under the van and using a half decent torch through a gap in the centre/rear/under tinware, it is possible to sight the head of the bottom allen screw (the most difficult one) of the RHS pipe fastening to the wp housing. This being the case and gingerly threading through a 3/8th socket extension/s, this MAY be feasible to R&R that screw, possibly adding a universal joint as well, of course using a assistant up top to guide the tool into place would be essential. Again yes or no or am I overlooking something here?

If as I suspect all 4 allen screws have never been removed, meaning 20 + years insitu untouched, am I going to have a problem getting that initial release of each screw? If so, any tricks to assist/overcome this major concern, aside from quality tools and WD40 or better?

In a previous post on this topic, you gave links to 2 x R&R procedure wp doccos ... thank you. In one it said for the wp pulley removal procedure, tighten up hugely the V belt in position, put the van into gear and then the pulley bolts will release ok. Is there actually more to this? Are you saying additionally include your suggestion of the square shafted screwdriver and where exactly are you levering from and to where/how on the wp pulley bolts?

I know what you mean about the alternator and its dicky bracket. What a nightmare that can start up there! I've since added the GoWesty stiffener bracket that fastens to the 2 x power steering bracket fastening positions. Of course the problem emanates from vibrations in the alternator when internal worn parts create havoc. Touch wood mine seem to be ok. What a disaster if the crankcase fastening points get damaged in the process! Good points indeed. Thanks a lot for your input.

If nothing else, we may end up with a half decent R&R wp procedure out of this. I for one would like to see that happen.

Cheers.

Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: ScottDaniel@turbovans.com
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 18:24:29 -0800
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] R&R water pump

how matter how you do it , the job sucks, compared to how easy it could be if they had thought at all about how to change the water pump 'in service.' Apparently they only thought about bolting the w .pump to the bare block while building the engine.

here's what I do ..

I do remove the distirbutor to help a bit with access..

but it only barely helps. Removing cap and rotor only isn't of any use.

so either leave the whole thing there, or take off cap , then remove distributor.

it helps 'a little' at best. Gives one a minor pychological 'boost' to be able to see the w. pump a little better. AC makes it even worse of a job of course.

tinware ...remove the left outside lower one to help access the allen bolts holding that large metal pipe onto the w. pump. .

all other tinware leave in place.

it would be wonderful if the main pulley would come off easily ..

but it doesn't at all. So just leave it there.

yes, that pipe will 'fiddle around' enough to get the w. pump clear of it...

that pipe trapped behind the crank pulley ..it's captured in there ..

but it will move around, enough to get things aprart, but it won't come out. like I said ..

they gave zero thought to making the job reasonable.

here's one trick ...

that pipe, the one that goes behind the crank pulley ..

on the water pump end, don't put the stock allen screws back in. Instead get M8 X 1.25 bolts of the right length ....with a 12mm hex head ..

and there are a few of those that exist with 10mm heads..

the reason being ..

they are so much easier to deal with than the allen screws there.

I have spend well over an hour on just the one lower allen screw. Like I said ..

the job sucks and it could have been designed to be so much easier. and without much effort too. .

yes..the w. pump just barely fits off over the studs that it's mounted with. Might have to pry or 'persuaude'.

oh...the w. pump pully bolts ..

take off the w. pump pulley right away of course ..

a large square shafted screw driver makes a nice holder tool on those pulley bolts.

check alternator bearings while alt / w. pump belt is off...I find tired alternator bearings now and then.

also check alternator mounting ..

they are notorious for breaking the bracket, getting loose, even breaking off the studs in the engine block the bracket sits on.

scott

www.turbovans.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Ken Garratt

To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum

Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 5:41 PM

Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] R&R water pump

All,

Looks like it's finally happened to me too ..... and out of the blue, for no particular reason other than I'm guessing ... its old age. It may well be the original pump, if so, then it's done 202,000klms.

I recently noticed a coolant leak and traced it as coming from the drain hole on the water pump housing, so I assume the internal seal on the water pump shaft has finally spat the dummy ... nicely timed for pre Xmas break/businesses closures/Batemans Bay Tour prepping.

I've been boning up on past posts and links, hopefully to find enough courage to attempt this R&R insitu procedure. I agree, doing this sort of project, the first time is always the hardest.

However I am still unclear on how far one has to go with dismantling surrounding components so as to enable enough clearance to allow the water pump to be shifted rearwards on the threaded studs so as to clear everything for removal. Anyone know please, with some clarity?

For example, it seems to be accepted that the main drive pulley doesn't require removal. Assuming that is the case, how does one then deal with the metal coolant pipe bolted to the RHS of the water pump housing and running horizontally across behind and toward the bottom of the main drive pulley? Does this pipe, once unbolted from the water pump, have to be physically removed altogether for clearance reasons or can it simply be angled up or down to clear for the water pump housing removal? It'd be nice if it didn't require removal but someone may say otherwise?

Some say remove the tinware ... yes or no or just loosen it to offer some better access for tools to bolts, clamps, screws etc if needed or is it really unnecessary ... just leave the tinware as is.

Some say remove the complete distributor for necessary better access for tools etc .... yes or no? Or just remove the distributor cap and rotor or leave as is?

Any other critical procedure and/or component issue I need to know about?

Any help, hints and tips for a successful water pump changeover would be welcome. TIA.

Cheers.
Ken

bergodaz · 1 December 2010 07:46

Hi Ken ,Ive done that R&R about 5 times.4 with crank pulley in & 1 with it out. The job is EASY with it out, so if you can, get it out.
I can force the tinware back far enough to get a socket onto the pulley bolt.Cheers, Eddie.

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> All,
>
>
>
> Looks like it's finally happened to me too ..... and out of the blue, for no particular reason other than I'm guessing ... its old age. It may well be the original pump, if so, then it's done 202,000klms.
>
>
>
> I recently noticed a coolant leak and traced it as coming from the drain hole on the water pump housing, so I assume the internal seal on the water pump shaft has finally spat the dummy ... nicely timed for pre Xmas break/businesses closures/Batemans Bay Tour prepping.
>
>
>
> I've been boning up on past posts and links, hopefully to find enough courage to attempt this R&R insitu procedure. I agree, doing this sort of project, the first time is always the hardest.
>
>
>
> However I am still unclear on how far one has to go with dismantling surrounding components so as to enable enough clearance to allow the water pump to be shifted rearwards on the threaded studs so as to clear everything for removal. Anyone know please, with some clarity?
>
>
>
> For example, it seems to be accepted that the main drive pulley doesn't require removal. Assuming that is the case, how does one then deal with the metal coolant pipe bolted to the RHS of the water pump housing and running horizontally across behind and toward the bottom of the main drive pulley? Does this pipe, once unbolted from the water pump, have to be physically removed altogether for clearance reasons or can it simply be angled up or down to clear for the water pump housing removal? It'd be nice if it didn't require removal but someone may say otherwise?
>
>
>
> Some say remove the tinware ... yes or no or just loosen it to offer some better access for tools to bolts, clamps, screws etc if needed or is it really unnecessary ... just leave the tinware as is.
>
>
>
> Some say remove the complete distributor for necessary better access for tools etc .... yes or no? Or just remove the distributor cap and rotor or leave as is?
>
>
>
> Any other critical procedure and/or component issue I need to know about?
>
>
>
> Any help, hints and tips for a successful water pump changeover would be welcome. TIA.
>
>
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>

unclekenz · 1 December 2010 08:20

Eddie,
Yes I've already mastered expanding and holding the distance between the main drive pulley and tinware to easily fit a 30mm socket and driver onto the drive pulley bolt. Made up an expanding bizzo to do that ... works pretty good. In the back of the drive pulley are 2 holes on opposing sides, they accept the special VW tool that locks fast the drive pulley fast so the pulley bolt can be removed/installed. I found that instead, depending upon whether you are taking the bolt in or out, select the appropriate hole and insert a long socket through the hole ... think its around 14-16mm size (can't remember). Shift the pulley around until it jambs the socket against the engine casing, just as the special tool does. Then you can loosen/tighten the pulley bolt. I must say though I've chickened out so far on removing the pulley. Also someone here recently said they had a deal of trouble refitting the pulley, in particular due to the difficulty re-aligning the woodruff key.

Any other hints you have please doing the water pump R&R? Tools? etc etc. Thanks a lot.
Cheers.
Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: bergodaz@ozemail.com.au
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 07:46:43 +0000
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: R&R water pump

Hi Ken ,Ive done that R&R about 5 times.4 with crank pulley in & 1 with it out. The job is EASY with it out, so if you can, get it out.
I can force the tinware back far enough to get a socket onto the pulley bolt.Cheers, Eddie.

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> All,
>
>
>
> Looks like it's finally happened to me too ..... and out of the blue, for no particular reason other than I'm guessing ... its old age. It may well be the original pump, if so, then it's done 202,000klms.
>
>
>
> I recently noticed a coolant leak and traced it as coming from the drain hole on the water pump housing, so I assume the internal seal on the water pump shaft has finally spat the dummy ... nicely timed for pre Xmas break/businesses closures/Batemans Bay Tour prepping.
>
>
>
> I've been boning up on past posts and links, hopefully to find enough courage to attempt this R&R insitu procedure. I agree, doing this sort of project, the first time is always the hardest.
>
>
>
> However I am still unclear on how far one has to go with dismantling surrounding components so as to enable enough clearance to allow the water pump to be shifted rearwards on the threaded studs so as to clear everything for removal. Anyone know please, with some clarity?
>
>
>
> For example, it seems to be accepted that the main drive pulley doesn't require removal. Assuming that is the case, how does one then deal with the metal coolant pipe bolted to the RHS of the water pump housing and running horizontally across behind and toward the bottom of the main drive pulley? Does this pipe, once unbolted from the water pump, have to be physically removed altogether for clearance reasons or can it simply be angled up or down to clear for the water pump housing removal? It'd be nice if it didn't require removal but someone may say otherwise?
>
>
>
> Some say remove the tinware ... yes or no or just loosen it to offer some better access for tools to bolts, clamps, screws etc if needed or is it really unnecessary ... just leave the tinware as is.
>
>
>
> Some say remove the complete distributor for necessary better access for tools etc .... yes or no? Or just remove the distributor cap and rotor or leave as is?
>
>
>
> Any other critical procedure and/or component issue I need to know about?
>
>
>
> Any help, hints and tips for a successful water pump changeover would be welcome. TIA.
>
>
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>

gullyraker1953 · 1 December 2010 12:01

G'day Ken, it's bad luck that the water pump let go at such a bad time.

After owning air-cooled kombi's I have developed a deep paranoia of water cooling. Call it aquaphobia. Niggling radiator leaks and ominously bulging hoses prompted me to replace almost every single cooling component on my own Syncro, from the radiator to the water pump, barring only the long plastic pipes, the "christmas tree" and the thermostat housing. Cost a fortune, but it was cheaper than rebuilding a 'cooked' engine, and well worth it for the peace of mind.

I can't help with any advice about replacing the water-pump in situ; I removed the engine from my van. I recommend this because you are bound to find some of the hoses are in poor condition. I would also test or replace the thermostat and pressure cap, and have the radiator flushed and pressure-tested. Have a look at the oil-cooler above the oil filter; they have been known to rot through, and are relatively cheap.

I have never had any trouble removing allen-bolts from alloy engines after carrying out the following steps;

First clean the crud out of the inside of the hex with a small screwdriver. Really work that blade around to scrape out all the dirt so that the allen key can get right in.

Use the best tool that you can find. Cheap allen keys create expensive problems.

If the end is even slightly rounded off, grind or cut off the damaged section.

Allen-key sockets work better than "L" shaped tools because you can easily keep them 'square' to the job, so that they can't slip. If it slips and damages the bolt and make it a lot harder to remove.

Use a socket extension to help you visually to keep it 'square'. Check carefully from all angles that you have got it straight.

Give it a sharp rap with the hammer to fully seat it and loosen the threads. Exert steady downward pressure to crack the thread. If it doesn't move the first time, rap it harder.

WD40 does little good, and only makes it easier for the tool to slip.

'Ezy-outs' work well on damaged allen-bolts. Sometimes you have to weld them inside an old socket to use them with an extension.

Clean all threads before replacing components.

By the way, when I tried to buy a new water pump several months ago I discovered that 'genuine' pumps are nla; VW sells reconditioned units. Don't throw out your old pump!

All the best, Roger [Beetle] Bayley.

bencroft96 · 1 December 2010 21:26

Kenny,you have been given some good and corrrect info.I am not envious of you,r and r water pump wbx is not a fun job at all.I did it at the beggining of the year without removing pulley,tin ware or dizzy.Remember if you want a new water pump I have one,it comes with a wbx though.I also have the christmas tree too,if you are worried about your old repaired one holding up.

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Gullyraker@... wrote:
>
> G'day Ken, it's bad luck that the water pump let go at such a bad time.
>
> After owning air-cooled kombi's I have developed a deep paranoia of
> water cooling. Call it aquaphobia. Niggling radiator leaks and ominously bulging
> hoses prompted me to replace almost every single cooling component on my
> own Syncro, from the radiator to the water pump, barring only the long plastic
> pipes, the "christmas tree" and the thermostat housing. Cost a fortune, but
> it was cheaper than rebuilding a 'cooked' engine, and well worth it for the
> peace of mind.
>
> I can't help with any advice about replacing the water-pump in situ; I
> removed the engine from my van. I recommend this because you are bound to
> find some of the hoses are in poor condition. I would also test or replace the
> thermostat and pressure cap, and have the radiator flushed and
> pressure-tested. Have a look at the oil-cooler above the oil filter; they have been known
> to rot through, and are relatively cheap.
>
> I have never had any trouble removing allen-bolts from alloy engines
> after carrying out the following steps;
>
> First clean the crud out of the inside of the hex with a small
> screwdriver. Really work that blade around to scrape out all the dirt so that the allen
> key can get right in.
>
> Use the best tool that you can find. Cheap allen keys create expensive
> problems.
>
> If the end is even slightly rounded off, grind or cut off the damaged
> section.
>
> Allen-key sockets work better than "L" shaped tools because you can easily
> keep them 'square' to the job, so that they can't slip. If it slips and
> damages the bolt and make it a lot harder to remove.
>
> Use a socket extension to help you visually to keep it 'square'. Check
> carefully from all angles that you have got it straight.
>
> Give it a sharp rap with the hammer to fully seat it and loosen the
> threads. Exert steady downward pressure to crack the thread. If it doesn't move
> the first time, rap it harder.
>
> WD40 does little good, and only makes it easier for the tool to slip.
>
> 'Ezy-outs' work well on damaged allen-bolts. Sometimes you have to weld
> them inside an old socket to use them with an extension.
>
> Clean all threads before replacing components.
>
> By the way, when I tried to buy a new water pump several months ago I
> discovered that 'genuine' pumps are nla; VW sells reconditioned units. Don't
> throw out your old pump!
>
> All the best, Roger [Beetle] Bayley.
>

bergodaz · 1 December 2010 23:23

Ken, removing the pulley just gives you a bit of room to work with & gives you a good view of what you are doing- properly aligning things & making sure you have properly sealed all hoses and gaskets.Sure the woodruff key is a pain when reinstalling the pulley ,but this pain is nothing compared to th pain you'll feel if you finish the job only to find leaks in your work-I've made that mistake-but only once.Just one other bit of advice, if you are using hose clamps , try to position them so you can easily retighten them later. Good luck with your repair.Eddie.

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> Eddie,
>
> Yes I've already mastered expanding and holding the distance between the main drive pulley and tinware to easily fit a 30mm socket and driver onto the drive pulley bolt. Made up an expanding bizzo to do that ... works pretty good. In the back of the drive pulley are 2 holes on opposing sides, they accept the special VW tool that locks fast the drive pulley fast so the pulley bolt can be removed/installed. I found that instead, depending upon whether you are taking the bolt in or out, select the appropriate hole and insert a long socket through the hole ... think its around 14-16mm size (can't remember). Shift the pulley around until it jambs the socket against the engine casing, just as the special tool does. Then you can loosen/tighten the pulley bolt. I must say though I've chickened out so far on removing the pulley. Also someone here recently said they had a deal of trouble refitting the pulley, in particular due to the difficulty re-aligning the woodruff key.
>
>
>
> Any other hints you have please doing the water pump R&R? Tools? etc etc. Thanks a lot.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: bergodaz@...
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 07:46:43 +0000
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: R&R water pump
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Ken ,Ive done that R&R about 5 times.4 with crank pulley in & 1 with it out. The job is EASY with it out, so if you can, get it out.
> I can force the tinware back far enough to get a socket onto the pulley bolt.Cheers, Eddie.
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > All,
> >
> >
> >
> > Looks like it's finally happened to me too ..... and out of the blue, for no particular reason other than I'm guessing ... its old age. It may well be the original pump, if so, then it's done 202,000klms.
> >
> >
> >
> > I recently noticed a coolant leak and traced it as coming from the drain hole on the water pump housing, so I assume the internal seal on the water pump shaft has finally spat the dummy ... nicely timed for pre Xmas break/businesses closures/Batemans Bay Tour prepping.
> >
> >
> >
> > I've been boning up on past posts and links, hopefully to find enough courage to attempt this R&R insitu procedure. I agree, doing this sort of project, the first time is always the hardest.
> >
> >
> >
> > However I am still unclear on how far one has to go with dismantling surrounding components so as to enable enough clearance to allow the water pump to be shifted rearwards on the threaded studs so as to clear everything for removal. Anyone know please, with some clarity?
> >
> >
> >
> > For example, it seems to be accepted that the main drive pulley doesn't require removal. Assuming that is the case, how does one then deal with the metal coolant pipe bolted to the RHS of the water pump housing and running horizontally across behind and toward the bottom of the main drive pulley? Does this pipe, once unbolted from the water pump, have to be physically removed altogether for clearance reasons or can it simply be angled up or down to clear for the water pump housing removal? It'd be nice if it didn't require removal but someone may say otherwise?
> >
> >
> >
> > Some say remove the tinware ... yes or no or just loosen it to offer some better access for tools to bolts, clamps, screws etc if needed or is it really unnecessary ... just leave the tinware as is.
> >
> >
> >
> > Some say remove the complete distributor for necessary better access for tools etc .... yes or no? Or just remove the distributor cap and rotor or leave as is?
> >
> >
> >
> > Any other critical procedure and/or component issue I need to know about?
> >
> >
> >
> > Any help, hints and tips for a successful water pump changeover would be welcome. TIA.
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> > Ken
> >
>

unclekenz · 2 December 2010 01:26

Hartmut, John, Scott, Francesca, Eddie, Roger, Benny, All,

Thanks guys and gals, you've all exceeded my wildest expectations ..... either on the phone, email or here. Needless to say I have taken copious notes and will compile a docco in due course for the benefit of present and future generation syncro owners!

It occurred to me that with this topic raising so much interest from so many members with so much knowledge & experience on R&R WP, I can easily visualise you guys just champing at the bit to jointly attend a field day along with fav tools, lubes & sealant to closely eyeball and deal with my WP project. Beer and nibbles energy food will be provided! Should be fun. Might even learn something. We just need to agree on a date and venue!

Scott, I've doublechecked my 4 x allen screws (I agree with Roger, in Oz we would call them allen bolts, all that is different compared to hex heads is the shape of the head so here, they would still be called a bolt) and my Etka lists these bolts (believe it or not) as 2 x M8 x 25 - Z3 hex head on the LHS and 2 x M8 x 22 allen key head bolt on the RHS. My 4 x bolts are all allen key heads and accept 6mm allen keys, exactly the same size allen key as for our rear CV joint bolts in Oz. Maybe you ppl in US have 8mm allen keys in the heads, but not here on mine anyway. I wonder why Etka lists the LHS bolts as being hex head bolts, because there isn't enough space to fit a hex head socket there. Anyone here got original hex head bolts on the LHS?

Ok now here's a curly one for you all to mull over .... the replacement wp kit. It just so happens that a wp kit has been handed down with this vehicle through subsequent owners, unused, just stored & sitting in waiting, seemingly in good nic, since at least 1992. So begs the question, should I now use it here? The 2 x O rings with it and the 1 x flat gasket all look and test fine. The only question I have is ... what exactly is the type and material of the internal seal in the WP housing? If we know that, we may have a clue then as to its likely condition, its durability unused, maybe it is perfectly fine or maybe there is otherwise a good reason to doubt it. I know its just too easy to say ... "well just go buy a new one". But on balance, I'd consider using it if the type of seal in it can be identified and known to be unaffected by time in a sealed and unused state. Guys, care to tear my theorising to shreds and NOT make my day or otherwise make me a happy chappy? Remember, I suspect even this replacement WP will probably outlast me anyway .... in my opinion!

I'm heading out now .... may have more to say later on.

Cheers.

Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: bergodaz@ozemail.com.au
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 23:23:11 +0000
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: R&R water pump

Ken, removing the pulley just gives you a bit of room to work with & gives you a good view of what you are doing- properly aligning things & making sure you have properly sealed all hoses and gaskets.Sure the woodruff key is a pain when reinstalling the pulley ,but this pain is nothing compared to th pain you'll feel if you finish the job only to find leaks in your work-I've made that mistake-but only once.Just one other bit of advice, if you are using hose clamps , try to position them so you can easily retighten them later. Good luck with your repair.Eddie.

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> Eddie,
>
> Yes I've already mastered expanding and holding the distance between the main drive pulley and tinware to easily fit a 30mm socket and driver onto the drive pulley bolt. Made up an expanding bizzo to do that ... works pretty good. In the back of the drive pulley are 2 holes on opposing sides, they accept the special VW tool that locks fast the drive pulley fast so the pulley bolt can be removed/installed. I found that instead, depending upon whether you are taking the bolt in or out, select the appropriate hole and insert a long socket through the hole ... think its around 14-16mm size (can't remember). Shift the pulley around until it jambs the socket against the engine casing, just as the special tool does. Then you can loosen/tighten the pulley bolt. I must say though I've chickened out so far on removing the pulley. Also someone here recently said they had a deal of trouble refitting the pulley, in particular due to the difficulty re-aligning the woodruff key.
>
>
>
> Any other hints you have please doing the water pump R&R? Tools? etc etc. Thanks a lot.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: bergodaz@...
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 07:46:43 +0000
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: R&R water pump
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Ken ,Ive done that R&R about 5 times.4 with crank pulley in & 1 with it out. The job is EASY with it out, so if you can, get it out.
> I can force the tinware back far enough to get a socket onto the pulley bolt.Cheers, Eddie.
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > All,
> >
> >
> >
> > Looks like it's finally happened to me too ..... and out of the blue, for no particular reason other than I'm guessing ... its old age. It may well be the original pump, if so, then it's done 202,000klms.
> >
> >
> >
> > I recently noticed a coolant leak and traced it as coming from the drain hole on the water pump housing, so I assume the internal seal on the water pump shaft has finally spat the dummy ... nicely timed for pre Xmas break/businesses closures/Batemans Bay Tour prepping.
> >
> >
> >
> > I've been boning up on past posts and links, hopefully to find enough courage to attempt this R&R insitu procedure. I agree, doing this sort of project, the first time is always the hardest.
> >
> >
> >
> > However I am still unclear on how far one has to go with dismantling surrounding components so as to enable enough clearance to allow the water pump to be shifted rearwards on the threaded studs so as to clear everything for removal. Anyone know please, with some clarity?
> >
> >
> >
> > For example, it seems to be accepted that the main drive pulley doesn't require removal. Assuming that is the case, how does one then deal with the metal coolant pipe bolted to the RHS of the water pump housing and running horizontally across behind and toward the bottom of the main drive pulley? Does this pipe, once unbolted from the water pump, have to be physically removed altogether for clearance reasons or can it simply be angled up or down to clear for the water pump housing removal? It'd be nice if it didn't require removal but someone may say otherwise?
> >
> >
> >
> > Some say remove the tinware ... yes or no or just loosen it to offer some better access for tools to bolts, clamps, screws etc if needed or is it really unnecessary ... just leave the tinware as is.
> >
> >
> >
> > Some say remove the complete distributor for necessary better access for tools etc .... yes or no? Or just remove the distributor cap and rotor or leave as is?
> >
> >
> >
> > Any other critical procedure and/or component issue I need to know about?
> >
> >
> >
> > Any help, hints and tips for a successful water pump changeover would be welcome. TIA.
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> > Ken
> >
>

turbovan2001 · 2 December 2010 02:11

bolt/screw same thing to me.

bolts are generally considered larger than screws ..

but calling any M8 X 1.25 threaded fastener a bolt or screw ..either is OK.

as I mentioned..

there are M8 X 1.25 threaded screws/bolts that have smaller than 13mm hex head screws.

I put ones in with 12mm hex head screws on that small pipe on the right side of the w. pump.

japanese cars use tons of M8 X 1.25 screws with 12mm hex heads.

they fit.

there are a few 10mm hex head bolts/screws of that thread too.

way better than those cheesy allen screws.

I had to take one "L" type allen wrench and cut it short to fit into one of those screws, btw.

the 'screw' end too, not the 'handle' end.

never ever install cooling system o-rings dry.

'always' use a sealant on them.

I like toyota black silicone sealat a lot ..

they seal their w. pumps to V-6 engine blocks with no o-ring or gasket with that stuff.

there is also The Right Stuff ..

also extra good cooling system or oil system sealant/ gasket replacer.

but dry o-rings on VW cooling system parts ...is a joke. They shrink after a while ..just can't work dry forever. Same thing on Honda t-stat housings....dry o-ring does not work 'forever'.

Also add a sealant.

well considering the gernal decline in the quality of the parts these days, I'd like a w. pump from 1992.

your choice is to juse use it, don't use it, or take it apart I suppose ..

so just try it.

or get another new one.

I have never seen hex head bolts on the left side of the w. pump on the large pipe.

I have seen a few of them with only one allen screw installed though.

just install the new water pump very carefully and you'll probably be fine.

'It's not the parts....it's the workmanship."

scott

www.turbovans.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Ken Garratt

To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum

Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 5:26 PM

Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: R&R water pump

Hartmut, John, Scott, Francesca, Eddie, Roger, Benny, All,

Thanks guys and gals, you've all exceeded my wildest expectations ..... either on the phone, email or here. Needless to say I have taken copious notes and will compile a docco in due course for the benefit of present and future generation syncro owners!

It occurred to me that with this topic raising so much interest from so many members with so much knowledge & experience on R&R WP, I can easily visualise you guys just champing at the bit to jointly attend a field day along with fav tools, lubes & sealant to closely eyeball and deal with my WP project. Beer and nibbles energy food will be provided! Should be fun. Might even learn something. We just need to agree on a date and venue!

Scott, I've doublechecked my 4 x allen screws (I agree with Roger, in Oz we would call them allen bolts, all that is different compared to hex heads is the shape of the head so here, they would still be called a bolt) and my Etka lists these bolts (believe it or not) as 2 x M8 x 25 - Z3 hex head on the LHS and 2 x M8 x 22 allen key head bolt on the RHS. My 4 x bolts are all allen key heads and accept 6mm allen keys, exactly the same size allen key as for our rear CV joint bolts in Oz. Maybe you ppl in US have 8mm allen keys in the heads, but not here on mine anyway. I wonder why Etka lists the LHS bolts as being hex head bolts, because there isn't enough space to fit a hex head socket there. Anyone here got original hex head bolts on the LHS?

Ok now here's a curly one for you all to mull over .... the replacement wp kit. It just so happens that a wp kit has been handed down with this vehicle through subsequent owners, unused, just stored & sitting in waiting, seemingly in good nic, since at least 1992. So begs the question, should I now use it here? The 2 x O rings with it and the 1 x flat gasket all look and test fine. The only question I have is ... what exactly is the type and material of the internal seal in the WP housing? If we know that, we may have a clue then as to its likely condition, its durability unused, maybe it is perfectly fine or maybe there is otherwise a good reason to doubt it. I know its just too easy to say ... "well just go buy a new one". But on balance, I'd consider using it if the type of seal in it can be identified and known to be unaffected by time in a sealed and unused state. Guys, care to tear my theorising to shreds and NOT make my day or otherwise make me a happy chappy? Remember, I suspect even this replacement WP will probably outlast me anyway .... in my opinion!

I'm heading out now .... may have more to say later on.

Cheers.

Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: bergodaz@ozemail.com.au
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 23:23:11 +0000
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: R&R water pump

Ken, removing the pulley just gives you a bit of room to work with & gives you a good view of what you are doing- properly aligning things & making sure you have properly sealed all hoses and gaskets.Sure the woodruff key is a pain when reinstalling the pulley ,but this pain is nothing compared to th pain you'll feel if you finish the job only to find leaks in your work-I've made that mistake-but only once.Just one other bit of advice, if you are using hose clamps , try to position them so you can easily retighten them later. Good luck with your repair.Eddie.

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> Eddie,
>
> Yes I've already mastered expanding and holding the distance between the main drive pulley and tinware to easily fit a 30mm socket and driver onto the drive pulley bolt. Made up an expanding bizzo to do that ... works pretty good. In the back of the drive pulley are 2 holes on opposing sides, they accept the special VW tool that locks fast the drive pulley fast so the pulley bolt can be removed/installed. I found that instead, depending upon whether you are taking the bolt in or out, select the appropriate hole and insert a long socket through the hole ... think its around 14-16mm size (can't remember). Shift the pulley around until it jambs the socket against the engine casing, just as the special tool does. Then you can loosen/tighten the pulley bolt. I must say though I've chickened out so far on removing the pulley. Also someone here recently said they had a deal of trouble refitting the pulley, in particular due to the difficulty re-aligning the woodruff key.
>
>
>
> Any other hints you have please doing the water pump R&R? Tools? etc etc. Thanks a lot.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: bergodaz@...
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 07:46:43 +0000
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: R&R water pump
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Ken ,Ive done that R&R about 5 times.4 with crank pulley in & 1 with it out. The job is EASY with it out, so if you can, get it out.
> I can force the tinware back far enough to get a socket onto the pulley bolt.Cheers, Eddie.
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > All,
> >
> >
> >
> > Looks like it's finally happened to me too ..... and out of the blue, for no particular reason other than I'm guessing ... its old age. It may well be the original pump, if so, then it's done 202,000klms.
> >
> >
> >
> > I recently noticed a coolant leak and traced it as coming from the drain hole on the water pump housing, so I assume the internal seal on the water pump shaft has finally spat the dummy ... nicely timed for pre Xmas break/businesses closures/Batemans Bay Tour prepping.
> >
> >
> >
> > I've been boning up on past posts and links, hopefully to find enough courage to attempt this R&R insitu procedure. I agree, doing this sort of project, the first time is always the hardest.
> >
> >
> >
> > However I am still unclear on how far one has to go with dismantling surrounding components so as to enable enough clearance to allow the water pump to be shifted rearwards on the threaded studs so as to clear everything for removal. Anyone know please, with some clarity?
> >
> >
> >
> > For example, it seems to be accepted that the main drive pulley doesn't require removal. Assuming that is the case, how does one then deal with the metal coolant pipe bolted to the RHS of the water pump housing and running horizontally across behind and toward the bottom of the main drive pulley? Does this pipe, once unbolted from the water pump, have to be physically removed altogether for clearance reasons or can it simply be angled up or down to clear for the water pump housing removal? It'd be nice if it didn't require removal but someone may say otherwise?
> >
> >
> >
> > Some say remove the tinware ... yes or no or just loosen it to offer some better access for tools to bolts, clamps, screws etc if needed or is it really unnecessary ... just leave the tinware as is.
> >
> >
> >
> > Some say remove the complete distributor for necessary better access for tools etc .... yes or no? Or just remove the distributor cap and rotor or leave as is?
> >
> >
> >
> > Any other critical procedure and/or component issue I need to know about?
> >
> >
> >
> > Any help, hints and tips for a successful water pump changeover would be welcome. TIA.
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> > Ken
> >
>

kiehn38 · 2 December 2010 04:53

Ken,

Without a question, that I would happily install that pump of yours, is the fact that I maybe could have to solidify my pump replacement knowledge. Best of luck ! Hart

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken Garratt
Sent: Thursday, 2 December 2010 12:27 PM
To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: R&R water pump

Hartmut, John, Scott, Francesca, Eddie, Roger, Benny, All,

Thanks guys and gals, you've all exceeded my wildest expectations ..... either on the phone, email or here. Needless to say I have taken copious notes and will compile a docco in due course for the benefit of present and future generation syncro owners!

It occurred to me that with this topic raising so much interest from so many members with so much knowledge & experience on R&R WP, I can easily visualise you guys just champing at the bit to jointly attend a field day along with fav tools, lubes & sealant to closely eyeball and deal with my WP project. Beer and nibbles energy food will be provided! Should be fun. Might even learn something. We just need to agree on a date and venue!

Scott, I've doublechecked my 4 x allen screws (I agree with Roger, in Oz we would call them allen bolts, all that is different compared to hex heads is the shape of the head so here, they would still be called a bolt) and my Etka lists these bolts (believe it or not) as 2 x M8 x 25 - Z3 hex head on the LHS and 2 x M8 x 22 allen key head bolt on the RHS. My 4 x bolts are all allen key heads and accept 6mm allen keys, exactly the same size allen key as for our rear CV joint bolts in Oz. Maybe you ppl in US have 8mm allen keys in the heads, but not here on mine anyway. I wonder why Etka lists the LHS bolts as being hex head bolts, because there isn't enough space to fit a hex head socket there. Anyone here got original hex head bolts on the LHS?

Ok now here's a curly one for you all to mull over .... the replacement wp kit. It just so happens that a wp kit has been handed down with this vehicle through subsequent owners, unused, just stored & sitting in waiting, seemingly in good nic, since at least 1992. So begs the question, should I now use it here? The 2 x O rings with it and the 1 x flat gasket all look and test fine. The only question I have is ... what exactly is the type and material of the internal seal in the WP housing? If we know that, we may have a clue then as to its likely condition, its durability unused, maybe it is perfectly fine or maybe there is otherwise a good reason to doubt it. I know its just too easy to say ... "well just go buy a new one". But on balance, I'd consider using it if the type of seal in it can be identified and known to be unaffected by time in a sealed and unused state. Guys, care to tear my theorising to shreds and NOT make my day or otherwise make me a happy chappy? Remember, I suspect even this replacement WP will probably outlast me anyway .... in my opinion!

I'm heading out now .... may have more to say later on.

Cheers.

Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: bergodaz@ozemail.com.au
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 23:23:11 +0000
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: R&R water pump

Ken, removing the pulley just gives you a bit of room to work with & gives you a good view of what you are doing- properly aligning things & making sure you have properly sealed all hoses and gaskets.Sure the woodruff key is a pain when reinstalling the pulley ,but this pain is nothing compared to th pain you'll feel if you finish the job only to find leaks in your work-I've made that mistake-but only once.Just one other bit of advice, if you are using hose clamps , try to position them so you can easily retighten them later. Good luck with your repair.Eddie.

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> Eddie,
>
> Yes I've already mastered expanding and holding the distance between the main drive pulley and tinware to easily fit a 30mm socket and driver onto the drive pulley bolt. Made up an expanding bizzo to do that ... works pretty good. In the back of the drive pulley are 2 holes on opposing sides, they accept the special VW tool that locks fast the drive pulley fast so the pulley bolt can be removed/installed. I found that instead, depending upon whether you are taking the bolt in or out, select the appropriate hole and insert a long socket through the hole ... think its around 14-16mm size (can't remember). Shift the pulley around until it jambs the socket against the engine casing, just as the special tool does. Then you can loosen/tighten the pulley bolt. I must say though I've chickened out so far on removing the pulley. Also someone here recently said they had a deal of trouble refitting the pulley, in particular due to the difficulty re-aligning the woodruff key.
>
>
>
> Any other hints you have please doing the water pump R&R? Tools? etc etc. Thanks a lot.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: bergodaz@...
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 07:46:43 +0000
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: R&R water pump
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Ken ,Ive done that R&R about 5 times.4 with crank pulley in & 1 with it out. The job is EASY with it out, so if you can, get it out.
> I can force the tinware back far enough to get a socket onto the pulley bolt.Cheers, Eddie.
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > All,
> >
> >
> >
> > Looks like it's finally happened to me too ..... and out of the blue, for no particular reason other than I'm guessing ... its old age. It may well be the original pump, if so, then it's done 202,000klms.
> >
> >
> >
> > I recently noticed a coolant leak and traced it as coming from the drain hole on the water pump housing, so I assume the internal seal on the water pump shaft has finally spat the dummy ... nicely timed for pre Xmas break/businesses closures/Batemans Bay Tour prepping.
> >
> >
> >
> > I've been boning up on past posts and links, hopefully to find enough courage to attempt this R&R insitu procedure. I agree, doing this sort of project, the first time is always the hardest.
> >
> >
> >
> > However I am still unclear on how far one has to go with dismantling surrounding components so as to enable enough clearance to allow the water pump to be shifted rearwards on the threaded studs so as to clear everything for removal. Anyone know please, with some clarity?
> >
> >
> >
> > For example, it seems to be accepted that the main drive pulley doesn't require removal. Assuming that is the case, how does one then deal with the metal coolant pipe bolted to the RHS of the water pump housing and running horizontally across behind and toward the bottom of the main drive pulley? Does this pipe, once unbolted from the water pump, have to be physically removed altogether for clearance reasons or can it simply be angled up or down to clear for the water pump housing removal? It'd be nice if it didn't require removal but someone may say otherwise?
> >
> >
> >
> > Some say remove the tinware ... yes or no or just loosen it to offer some better access for tools to bolts, clamps, screws etc if needed or is it really unnecessary ... just leave the tinware as is.
> >
> >
> >
> > Some say remove the complete distributor for necessary better access for tools etc .... yes or no? Or just remove the distributor cap and rotor or leave as is?
> >
> >
> >
> > Any other critical procedure and/or component issue I need to know about?
> >
> >
> >
> > Any help, hints and tips for a successful water pump changeover would be welcome. TIA.
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> > Ken
> >
>

hanniboon · 2 December 2010 05:52

FYI, beware using silicone with leakage pump and tubing. I saw one engine that has had "Jelly like" stuck in engine's head. Causing over heat troubles and can't be figure out why until diassembling the engine.

Sent from Hanniboon BlackBerry® by dtac.

From: "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <ScottDaniel@turbovans.com>

Sender: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com

Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 18:11:35 -0800

To: <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>

ReplyTo: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: R&R water pump

bolt/screw same thing to me.

bolts are generally considered larger than screws ..

but calling any M8 X 1.25 threaded fastener a bolt or screw ..either is OK.

as I mentioned..

there are M8 X 1.25 threaded screws/bolts that have smaller than 13mm hex head screws.

I put ones in with 12mm hex head screws on that small pipe on the right side of the w. pump.

japanese cars use tons of M8 X 1.25 screws with 12mm hex heads.

they fit.

there are a few 10mm hex head bolts/screws of that thread too.

way better than those cheesy allen screws.

I had to take one "L" type allen wrench and cut it short to fit into one of those screws, btw.

the 'screw' end too, not the 'handle' end.

never ever install cooling system o-rings dry.

'always' use a sealant on them.

I like toyota black silicone sealat a lot ..

they seal their w. pumps to V-6 engine blocks with no o-ring or gasket with that stuff.

there is also The Right Stuff ..

also extra good cooling system or oil system sealant/ gasket replacer.

but dry o-rings on VW cooling system parts ...is a joke. They shrink after a while ..just can't work dry forever. Same thing on Honda t-stat housings....dry o-ring does not work 'forever'.

Also add a sealant.

well considering the gernal decline in the quality of the parts these days, I'd like a w. pump from 1992.

your choice is to juse use it, don't use it, or take it apart I suppose ..

so just try it.

or get another new one.

I have never seen hex head bolts on the left side of the w. pump on the large pipe.

I have seen a few of them with only one allen screw installed though.

just install the new water pump very carefully and you'll probably be fine.

'It's not the parts....it's the workmanship."

scott

www.turbovans.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Ken Garratt

To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum

Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 5:26 PM

Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: R&R water pump

Hartmut, John, Scott, Francesca, Eddie, Roger, Benny, All,

Thanks guys and gals, you've all exceeded my wildest expectations ..... either on the phone, email or here. Needless to say I have taken copious notes and will compile a docco in due course for the benefit of present and future generation syncro owners!

It occurred to me that with this topic raising so much interest from so many members with so much knowledge & experience on R&R WP, I can easily visualise you guys just champing at the bit to jointly attend a field day along with fav tools, lubes & sealant to closely eyeball and deal with my WP project. Beer and nibbles energy food will be provided! Should be fun. Might even learn something. We just need to agree on a date and venue!

Scott, I've doublechecked my 4 x allen screws (I agree with Roger, in Oz we would call them allen bolts, all that is different compared to hex heads is the shape of the head so here, they would still be called a bolt) and my Etka lists these bolts (believe it or not) as 2 x M8 x 25 - Z3 hex head on the LHS and 2 x M8 x 22 allen key head bolt on the RHS. My 4 x bolts are all allen key heads and accept 6mm allen keys, exactly the same size allen key as for our rear CV joint bolts in Oz. Maybe you ppl in US have 8mm allen keys in the heads, but not here on mine anyway. I wonder why Etka lists the LHS bolts as being hex head bolts, because there isn't enough space to fit a hex head socket there. Anyone here got original hex head bolts on the LHS?

Ok now here's a curly one for you all to mull over .... the replacement wp kit. It just so happens that a wp kit has been handed down with this vehicle through subsequent owners, unused, just stored & sitting in waiting, seemingly in good nic, since at least 1992. So begs the question, should I now use it here? The 2 x O rings with it and the 1 x flat gasket all look and test fine. The only question I have is ... what exactly is the type and material of the internal seal in the WP housing? If we know that, we may have a clue then as to its likely condition, its durability unused, maybe it is perfectly fine or maybe there is otherwise a good reason to doubt it. I know its just too easy to say ... "well just go buy a new one". But on balance, I'd consider using it if the type of seal in it can be identified and known to be unaffected by time in a sealed and unused state. Guys, care to tear my theorising to shreds and NOT make my day or otherwise make me a happy chappy? Remember, I suspect even this replacement WP will probably outlast me anyway .... in my opinion!

I'm heading out now .... may have more to say later on.

Cheers.

Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: bergodaz@ozemail.com.au
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 23:23:11 +0000
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: R&R water pump

Ken, removing the pulley just gives you a bit of room to work with & gives you a good view of what you are doing- properly aligning things & making sure you have properly sealed all hoses and gaskets.Sure the woodruff key is a pain when reinstalling the pulley ,but this pain is nothing compared to th pain you'll feel if you finish the job only to find leaks in your work-I've made that mistake-but only once.Just one other bit of advice, if you are using hose clamps , try to position them so you can easily retighten them later. Good luck with your repair.Eddie.

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> Eddie,
>
> Yes I've already mastered expanding and holding the distance between the main drive pulley and tinware to easily fit a 30mm socket and driver onto the drive pulley bolt. Made up an expanding bizzo to do that ... works pretty good. In the back of the drive pulley are 2 holes on opposing sides, they accept the special VW tool that locks fast the drive pulley fast so the pulley bolt can be removed/installed. I found that instead, depending upon whether you are taking the bolt in or out, select the appropriate hole and insert a long socket through the hole ... think its around 14-16mm size (can't remember). Shift the pulley around until it jambs the socket against the engine casing, just as the special tool does. Then you can loosen/tighten the pulley bolt. I must say though I've chickened out so far on removing the pulley. Also someone here recently said they had a deal of trouble refitting the pulley, in particular due to the difficulty re-aligning the woodruff key.
>
>
>
> Any other hints you have please doing the water pump R&R? Tools? etc etc. Thanks a lot.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: bergodaz@...
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 07:46:43 +0000
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: R&R water pump
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Ken ,Ive done that R&R about 5 times.4 with crank pulley in & 1 with it out. The job is EASY with it out, so if you can, get it out.
> I can force the tinware back far enough to get a socket onto the pulley bolt.Cheers, Eddie.
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > All,
> >
> >
> >
> > Looks like it's finally happened to me too ..... and out of the blue, for no particular reason other than I'm guessing ... its old age. It may well be the original pump, if so, then it's done 202,000klms.
> >
> >
> >
> > I recently noticed a coolant leak and traced it as coming from the drain hole on the water pump housing, so I assume the internal seal on the water pump shaft has finally spat the dummy ... nicely timed for pre Xmas break/businesses closures/Batemans Bay Tour prepping.
> >
> >
> >
> > I've been boning up on past posts and links, hopefully to find enough courage to attempt this R&R insitu procedure. I agree, doing this sort of project, the first time is always the hardest.
> >
> >
> >
> > However I am still unclear on how far one has to go with dismantling surrounding components so as to enable enough clearance to allow the water pump to be shifted rearwards on the threaded studs so as to clear everything for removal. Anyone know please, with some clarity?
> >
> >
> >
> > For example, it seems to be accepted that the main drive pulley doesn't require removal. Assuming that is the case, how does one then deal with the metal coolant pipe bolted to the RHS of the water pump housing and running horizontally across behind and toward the bottom of the main drive pulley? Does this pipe, once unbolted from the water pump, have to be physically removed altogether for clearance reasons or can it simply be angled up or down to clear for the water pump housing removal? It'd be nice if it didn't require removal but someone may say otherwise?
> >
> >
> >
> > Some say remove the tinware ... yes or no or just loosen it to offer some better access for tools to bolts, clamps, screws etc if needed or is it really unnecessary ... just leave the tinware as is.
> >
> >
> >
> > Some say remove the complete distributor for necessary better access for tools etc .... yes or no? Or just remove the distributor cap and rotor or leave as is?
> >
> >
> >
> > Any other critical procedure and/or component issue I need to know about?
> >
> >
> >
> > Any help, hints and tips for a successful water pump changeover would be welcome. TIA.
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> > Ken
> >
>

kiehn38 · 2 December 2010 06:03

Hi Hanniboon,

I believe Scott mentioned Silicone in connection with bolt threads and not as a method of fixing leaks in pumps and tubing. It won’t last anyway as the system is under pressure. As a last resort one could ‘fix’ a leak with (Ken’s) gaffer tape.

Hart

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hanniboon
Sent: Thursday, 2 December 2010 4:52 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: R&R water pump

FYI, beware using silicone with leakage pump and tubing. I saw one engine that has had "Jelly like" stuck in engine's head. Causing over heat troubles and can't be figure out why until diassembling the engine.

Sent from Hanniboon BlackBerry® by dtac.

From: "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <ScottDaniel@turbovans.com>

Sender: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com

Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 18:11:35 -0800

To: <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>

ReplyTo: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: R&R water pump

bolt/screw same thing to me.

bolts are generally considered larger than screws ..

but calling any M8 X 1.25 threaded fastener a bolt or screw ..either is OK.

as I mentioned..

there are M8 X 1.25 threaded screws/bolts that have smaller than 13mm hex head screws.

I put ones in with 12mm hex head screws on that small pipe on the right side of the w. pump.

japanese cars use tons of M8 X 1.25 screws with 12mm hex heads.

they fit.

there are a few 10mm hex head bolts/screws of that thread too.

way better than those cheesy allen screws.

I had to take one "L" type allen wrench and cut it short to fit into one of those screws, btw.

the 'screw' end too, not the 'handle' end.

never ever install cooling system o-rings dry.

'always' use a sealant on them.

I like toyota black silicone sealat a lot ..

they seal their w. pumps to V-6 engine blocks with no o-ring or gasket with that stuff.

there is also The Right Stuff ..

also extra good cooling system or oil system sealant/ gasket replacer.

but dry o-rings on VW cooling system parts ...is a joke. They shrink after a while ..just can't work dry forever. Same thing on Honda t-stat housings....dry o-ring does not work 'forever'.

Also add a sealant.

well considering the gernal decline in the quality of the parts these days, I'd like a w. pump from 1992.

your choice is to juse use it, don't use it, or take it apart I suppose ..

so just try it.

or get another new one.

I have never seen hex head bolts on the left side of the w. pump on the large pipe.

I have seen a few of them with only one allen screw installed though.

just install the new water pump very carefully and you'll probably be fine.

'It's not the parts....it's the workmanship."

scott

www.turbovans.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Garratt
To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 5:26 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: R&R water pump

Hartmut, John, Scott, Francesca, Eddie, Roger, Benny, All,

Thanks guys and gals, you've all exceeded my wildest expectations ..... either on the phone, email or here. Needless to say I have taken copious notes and will compile a docco in due course for the benefit of present and future generation syncro owners!

It occurred to me that with this topic raising so much interest from so many members with so much knowledge & experience on R&R WP, I can easily visualise you guys just champing at the bit to jointly attend a field day along with fav tools, lubes & sealant to closely eyeball and deal with my WP project. Beer and nibbles energy food will be provided! Should be fun. Might even learn something. We just need to agree on a date and venue!

Scott, I've doublechecked my 4 x allen screws (I agree with Roger, in Oz we would call them allen bolts, all that is different compared to hex heads is the shape of the head so here, they would still be called a bolt) and my Etka lists these bolts (believe it or not) as 2 x M8 x 25 - Z3 hex head on the LHS and 2 x M8 x 22 allen key head bolt on the RHS. My 4 x bolts are all allen key heads and accept 6mm allen keys, exactly the same size allen key as for our rear CV joint bolts in Oz. Maybe you ppl in US have 8mm allen keys in the heads, but not here on mine anyway. I wonder why Etka lists the LHS bolts as being hex head bolts, because there isn't enough space to fit a hex head socket there. Anyone here got original hex head bolts on the LHS?

Ok now here's a curly one for you all to mull over .... the replacement wp kit. It just so happens that a wp kit has been handed down with this vehicle through subsequent owners, unused, just stored & sitting in waiting, seemingly in good nic, since at least 1992. So begs the question, should I now use it here? The 2 x O rings with it and the 1 x flat gasket all look and test fine. The only question I have is ... what exactly is the type and material of the internal seal in the WP housing? If we know that, we may have a clue then as to its likely condition, its durability unused, maybe it is perfectly fine or maybe there is otherwise a good reason to doubt it. I know its just too easy to say ... "well just go buy a new one". But on balance, I'd consider using it if the type of seal in it can be identified and known to be unaffected by time in a sealed and unused state. Guys, care to tear my theorising to shreds and NOT make my day or otherwise make me a happy chappy? Remember, I suspect even this replacement WP will probably outlast me anyway .... in my opinion!

I'm heading out now .... may have more to say later on.

Cheers.

Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: bergodaz@ozemail.com.au
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 23:23:11 +0000
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: R&R water pump

Ken, removing the pulley just gives you a bit of room to work with & gives you a good view of what you are doing- properly aligning things & making sure you have properly sealed all hoses and gaskets.Sure the woodruff key is a pain when reinstalling the pulley ,but this pain is nothing compared to th pain you'll feel if you finish the job only to find leaks in your work-I've made that mistake-but only once.Just one other bit of advice, if you are using hose clamps , try to position them so you can easily retighten them later. Good luck with your repair.Eddie.

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> Eddie,
>
> Yes I've already mastered expanding and holding the distance between the main drive pulley and tinware to easily fit a 30mm socket and driver onto the drive pulley bolt. Made up an expanding bizzo to do that ... works pretty good. In the back of the drive pulley are 2 holes on opposing sides, they accept the special VW tool that locks fast the drive pulley fast so the pulley bolt can be removed/installed. I found that instead, depending upon whether you are taking the bolt in or out, select the appropriate hole and insert a long socket through the hole ... think its around 14-16mm size (can't remember). Shift the pulley around until it jambs the socket against the engine casing, just as the special tool does. Then you can loosen/tighten the pulley bolt. I must say though I've chickened out so far on removing the pulley. Also someone here recently said they had a deal of trouble refitting the pulley, in particular due to the difficulty re-aligning the woodruff key.
>
>
>
> Any other hints you have please doing the water pump R&R? Tools? etc etc. Thanks a lot.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: bergodaz@...
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 07:46:43 +0000
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: R&R water pump
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Ken ,Ive done that R&R about 5 times.4 with crank pulley in & 1 with it out. The job is EASY with it out, so if you can, get it out.
> I can force the tinware back far enough to get a socket onto the pulley bolt.Cheers, Eddie.
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > All,
> >
> >
> >
> > Looks like it's finally happened to me too ..... and out of the blue, for no particular reason other than I'm guessing ... its old age. It may well be the original pump, if so, then it's done 202,000klms.
> >
> >
> >
> > I recently noticed a coolant leak and traced it as coming from the drain hole on the water pump housing, so I assume the internal seal on the water pump shaft has finally spat the dummy ... nicely timed for pre Xmas break/businesses closures/Batemans Bay Tour prepping.
> >
> >
> >
> > I've been boning up on past posts and links, hopefully to find enough courage to attempt this R&R insitu procedure. I agree, doing this sort of project, the first time is always the hardest.
> >
> >
> >
> > However I am still unclear on how far one has to go with dismantling surrounding components so as to enable enough clearance to allow the water pump to be shifted rearwards on the threaded studs so as to clear everything for removal. Anyone know please, with some clarity?
> >
> >
> >
> > For example, it seems to be accepted that the main drive pulley doesn't require removal. Assuming that is the case, how does one then deal with the metal coolant pipe bolted to the RHS of the water pump housing and running horizontally across behind and toward the bottom of the main drive pulley? Does this pipe, once unbolted from the water pump, have to be physically removed altogether for clearance reasons or can it simply be angled up or down to clear for the water pump housing removal? It'd be nice if it didn't require removal but someone may say otherwise?
> >
> >
> >
> > Some say remove the tinware ... yes or no or just loosen it to offer some better access for tools to bolts, clamps, screws etc if needed or is it really unnecessary ... just leave the tinware as is.
> >
> >
> >
> > Some say remove the complete distributor for necessary better access for tools etc .... yes or no? Or just remove the distributor cap and rotor or leave as is?
> >
> >
> >
> > Any other critical procedure and/or component issue I need to know about?
> >
> >
> >
> > Any help, hints and tips for a successful water pump changeover would be welcome. TIA.
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> > Ken
> >
>

gullyraker1953 · 2 December 2010 07:28

G'day Ken - I'm not sure what the shelf life of a water-pump seal is, but when I found out that VW couldn't supply a genuine part I used a pump that I had bought new from Tooley's 5 or 6 years ago, and had been carrying around under the seat 'just in case'.

It has been working fine for several months. I think the brand was "Febi" or something similar.

The other alternative is to press off the pulley flange on your old pump and visit the local engineering shop for a new bearing and seal. This used to be the normal practise in the 'good old days' before the disposable society.

By the way, after regarding the original spring-loaded hose clamps with distrust, I experimented by replacing some of them on my van with Utilux screw-clamps. [Look for the ones with curved edges that won't cut into the hose]. The result of the experiment was that several of the screw-clamps had to be tightened up again some time later. Not so with the factory clamps. Hats off to German engineering!

The only disadvantage with the factory clamps is that you have to buy special hose-clamp pliers.

I always use 'silver grease' on water pump bolts - anyone who has snapped a corroded bolt will know why. Use it liberally on the shafts and very sparingly on the threads.
Cheers, Roger [Beetle].

hanniboon · 2 December 2010 07:35

Hi Hart

Yes, you're right. I just recall that when Scott mention it and just wanna share from what I've seen. Using that silicone on "wrong" purpose might cause troubles than you could ever imagine.

Thank Hart.
Hanniboon

Sent from Hanniboon BlackBerry® by dtac.

From: "Hartmut Kiehn" <hartis@live.com.au>

Sender: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com

Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 17:03:25 +1100

To: <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>

ReplyTo: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: R&R water pump

Hi Hanniboon,

I believe Scott mentioned Silicone in connection with bolt threads and not as a method of fixing leaks in pumps and tubing. It won’t last anyway as the system is under pressure. As a last resort one could ‘fix’ a leak with (Ken’s) gaffer tape.

Hart

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hanniboon
Sent: Thursday, 2 December 2010 4:52 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: R&R water pump

FYI, beware using silicone with leakage pump and tubing. I saw one engine that has had "Jelly like" stuck in engine's head. Causing over heat troubles and can't be figure out why until diassembling the engine.

Sent from Hanniboon BlackBerry® by dtac.

From: "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <ScottDaniel@turbovans.com>

Sender: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com

Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 18:11:35 -0800

To: <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>

ReplyTo: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: R&R water pump

bolt/screw same thing to me.

bolts are generally considered larger than screws ..

but calling any M8 X 1.25 threaded fastener a bolt or screw ..either is OK.

as I mentioned..

there are M8 X 1.25 threaded screws/bolts that have smaller than 13mm hex head screws.

I put ones in with 12mm hex head screws on that small pipe on the right side of the w. pump.

japanese cars use tons of M8 X 1.25 screws with 12mm hex heads.

they fit.

there are a few 10mm hex head bolts/screws of that thread too.

way better than those cheesy allen screws.

I had to take one "L" type allen wrench and cut it short to fit into one of those screws, btw.

the 'screw' end too, not the 'handle' end.

never ever install cooling system o-rings dry.

'always' use a sealant on them.

I like toyota black silicone sealat a lot ..

they seal their w. pumps to V-6 engine blocks with no o-ring or gasket with that stuff.

there is also The Right Stuff ..

also extra good cooling system or oil system sealant/ gasket replacer.

but dry o-rings on VW cooling system parts ...is a joke. They shrink after a while ..just can't work dry forever. Same thing on Honda t-stat housings....dry o-ring does not work 'forever'.

Also add a sealant.

well considering the gernal decline in the quality of the parts these days, I'd like a w. pump from 1992.

your choice is to juse use it, don't use it, or take it apart I suppose ..

so just try it.

or get another new one.

I have never seen hex head bolts on the left side of the w. pump on the large pipe.

I have seen a few of them with only one allen screw installed though.

just install the new water pump very carefully and you'll probably be fine.

'It's not the parts....it's the workmanship."

scott

www.turbovans.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Garratt
To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 5:26 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: R&R water pump

Hartmut, John, Scott, Francesca, Eddie, Roger, Benny, All,

Thanks guys and gals, you've all exceeded my wildest expectations ..... either on the phone, email or here. Needless to say I have taken copious notes and will compile a docco in due course for the benefit of present and future generation syncro owners!

It occurred to me that with this topic raising so much interest from so many members with so much knowledge & experience on R&R WP, I can easily visualise you guys just champing at the bit to jointly attend a field day along with fav tools, lubes & sealant to closely eyeball and deal with my WP project. Beer and nibbles energy food will be provided! Should be fun. Might even learn something. We just need to agree on a date and venue!

Scott, I've doublechecked my 4 x allen screws (I agree with Roger, in Oz we would call them allen bolts, all that is different compared to hex heads is the shape of the head so here, they would still be called a bolt) and my Etka lists these bolts (believe it or not) as 2 x M8 x 25 - Z3 hex head on the LHS and 2 x M8 x 22 allen key head bolt on the RHS. My 4 x bolts are all allen key heads and accept 6mm allen keys, exactly the same size allen key as for our rear CV joint bolts in Oz. Maybe you ppl in US have 8mm allen keys in the heads, but not here on mine anyway. I wonder why Etka lists the LHS bolts as being hex head bolts, because there isn't enough space to fit a hex head socket there. Anyone here got original hex head bolts on the LHS?

Ok now here's a curly one for you all to mull over .... the replacement wp kit. It just so happens that a wp kit has been handed down with this vehicle through subsequent owners, unused, just stored & sitting in waiting, seemingly in good nic, since at least 1992. So begs the question, should I now use it here? The 2 x O rings with it and the 1 x flat gasket all look and test fine. The only question I have is ... what exactly is the type and material of the internal seal in the WP housing? If we know that, we may have a clue then as to its likely condition, its durability unused, maybe it is perfectly fine or maybe there is otherwise a good reason to doubt it. I know its just too easy to say ... "well just go buy a new one". But on balance, I'd consider using it if the type of seal in it can be identified and known to be unaffected by time in a sealed and unused state. Guys, care to tear my theorising to shreds and NOT make my day or otherwise make me a happy chappy? Remember, I suspect even this replacement WP will probably outlast me anyway .... in my opinion!

I'm heading out now .... may have more to say later on.

Cheers.

Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: bergodaz@ozemail.com.au
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 23:23:11 +0000
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: R&R water pump

Ken, removing the pulley just gives you a bit of room to work with & gives you a good view of what you are doing- properly aligning things & making sure you have properly sealed all hoses and gaskets.Sure the woodruff key is a pain when reinstalling the pulley ,but this pain is nothing compared to th pain you'll feel if you finish the job only to find leaks in your work-I've made that mistake-but only once.Just one other bit of advice, if you are using hose clamps , try to position them so you can easily retighten them later. Good luck with your repair.Eddie.

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> Eddie,
>
> Yes I've already mastered expanding and holding the distance between the main drive pulley and tinware to easily fit a 30mm socket and driver onto the drive pulley bolt. Made up an expanding bizzo to do that ... works pretty good. In the back of the drive pulley are 2 holes on opposing sides, they accept the special VW tool that locks fast the drive pulley fast so the pulley bolt can be removed/installed. I found that instead, depending upon whether you are taking the bolt in or out, select the appropriate hole and insert a long socket through the hole ... think its around 14-16mm size (can't remember). Shift the pulley around until it jambs the socket against the engine casing, just as the special tool does. Then you can loosen/tighten the pulley bolt. I must say though I've chickened out so far on removing the pulley. Also someone here recently said they had a deal of trouble refitting the pulley, in particular due to the difficulty re-aligning the woodruff key.
>
>
>
> Any other hints you have please doing the water pump R&R? Tools? etc etc. Thanks a lot.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: bergodaz@...
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 07:46:43 +0000
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: R&R water pump
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Ken ,Ive done that R&R about 5 times.4 with crank pulley in & 1 with it out. The job is EASY with it out, so if you can, get it out.
> I can force the tinware back far enough to get a socket onto the pulley bolt.Cheers, Eddie.
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > All,
> >
> >
> >
> > Looks like it's finally happened to me too ..... and out of the blue, for no particular reason other than I'm guessing ... its old age. It may well be the original pump, if so, then it's done 202,000klms.
> >
> >
> >
> > I recently noticed a coolant leak and traced it as coming from the drain hole on the water pump housing, so I assume the internal seal on the water pump shaft has finally spat the dummy ... nicely timed for pre Xmas break/businesses closures/Batemans Bay Tour prepping.
> >
> >
> >
> > I've been boning up on past posts and links, hopefully to find enough courage to attempt this R&R insitu procedure. I agree, doing this sort of project, the first time is always the hardest.
> >
> >
> >
> > However I am still unclear on how far one has to go with dismantling surrounding components so as to enable enough clearance to allow the water pump to be shifted rearwards on the threaded studs so as to clear everything for removal. Anyone know please, with some clarity?
> >
> >
> >
> > For example, it seems to be accepted that the main drive pulley doesn't require removal. Assuming that is the case, how does one then deal with the metal coolant pipe bolted to the RHS of the water pump housing and running horizontally across behind and toward the bottom of the main drive pulley? Does this pipe, once unbolted from the water pump, have to be physically removed altogether for clearance reasons or can it simply be angled up or down to clear for the water pump housing removal? It'd be nice if it didn't require removal but someone may say otherwise?
> >
> >
> >
> > Some say remove the tinware ... yes or no or just loosen it to offer some better access for tools to bolts, clamps, screws etc if needed or is it really unnecessary ... just leave the tinware as is.
> >
> >
> >
> > Some say remove the complete distributor for necessary better access for tools etc .... yes or no? Or just remove the distributor cap and rotor or leave as is?
> >
> >
> >
> > Any other critical procedure and/or component issue I need to know about?
> >
> >
> >
> > Any help, hints and tips for a successful water pump changeover would be welcome. TIA.
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> > Ken
> >
>

syncro · 2 December 2010 11:05

> Scott Daniel - Turbovans <ScottDaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
>
> bolt/screw same thing to me.

The correct definition for bolts/screws

Bolt = The thread does not continue all of the way to the head.

Screw = (Short for set screw) Thread continues for the complete length.

During my trade course I would have faced the death penalty for incorrect nomenclature.

Note; The word for stud in german is "Boltzen". As in "Zylinderkopf Boltzen"