Radiator Group Buy - Expressions of interest

1



Hi Roger,
One thing I have learnt about accidentally expelling G12+ coolant is that it is a very effective albeit expensive lawn killer!

I've always lusted after a refill/air-bleed procedure that can readily be CONTROLLED by a SOLE operator ideally in a relaxed state of mind, with the convenience to be stationed only at the expansion tank from the moment after I've opened the radiator bleeder until I'm finished filling & bleeding and ready to shut the motor down. By comparison, in my opinion the Bentley coolant change/bleed procedure is a disaster for a SOLE operator and never fails to fill me with terror!

RE your suggestion: "I have always dreamed of having a bleed-valve on top of the radiator, with a flexible hose, so that you can save the coolant expelled during the bleeding process without making a mess."
 
So Roger, to perhaps extend your dream idea further ... I've often wondered how to attach (seal) and run a small flexible hose from the radiator bleeder back to the expansion bottle, so creating a complete coolant loop for the fill/bleed procedure. This would enable complete control of coolant being fed into the system and at the same time, monitor for the cessation of bled air from the loop return hose. So maybe utilising your bleed-valve idea would do it. And to make the SOLE operator job even easier, I now fit a home made attachment to the expansion tank that elevates the fill position to a convenient height that is at least above the radiator bleeder level, dependent upon jacking height of the front of the van or not. So when satisfied with filling & bleeding, I can cut the 2000 rpm of the motor and not be concerned with coolant back-flushing out of the expansion tank, as it otherwise tries to do. Works for me even without the coolant loop hose, but I reckon even better setup with it. See the pics of the home made attachment.

The only issue for me perhaps against modifying the present radiator bleeder arrangement would be if modifying to a  bleed/valve design, whether that would then prevent being able to manually bleed air trapped in the radiator by simply squirting coolant into the bleed hole till it's full. I find this method of occasional air-bleeding the radiator pretty handy.

Grist for the mill? Any other ideas/comments, please feel free to add to the discussion. 

On another issue to do with G11 verses G12+ coolant for our vans.
Note:  I have no opinion myself on this, just passing along for others to be aware of and/or comment.

I was told recently by my local mechanic that the semi-retired VW mechanic we both know told him that before the days of G12+, VW service personnel had a device or a sort of litmus test that could reveal the condition of G11 coolant in the system, the result would determine whether or not the coolant was due for replacement or not. Whereas this test was lost with introduction of G12+ formula. There may have been some other particular benefit as well, perhaps to do with original head studs V stainless steel alternatives, but I've since forgotten. In any event, it was the opinion of the semi-retired VW mechanic that we all should still be using G11 and not G12+ in our MV 2.1 water-cooled motors. In particular that G12+ was principally designed for later technology VW motors. I could perhaps seek greater clarity on this and any other matter if it was beneficial.

Cheers Roger. So far the count is seven members interested in the radiator. Lets keep it going ppl, the more the merrier!
Ken



-------- Original message --------
From: "Roger Bayley gullyraker53@gmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia]" <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 27/11/2015 10:51 PM (GMT+10:00)
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Radiator replacement


 

Good idea Ken. I have always dreamed of having a bleed-valve on top of the radiator, with a flexible hose, so that you can save the coolant expelled during the bleeding process without making a mess.

Perhaps an all-aluminium radiator would be the go, to dispense with the troublesome plastic tanks and O ring seals. 

Can we start a new thread to gauge the interest out there. I'm thinking that the more that we order, the cheaper they will be.

Roger B.



2
Think you might be able to bolt a banjo fitting and drilled bolt to the radiator bleed bolt then run a hose back to filler tank cap that's modified................. maybe don't need to modify?
If the hose had a tap up near the bleed screw you could drain the hose back to the tank so no waste.
If the banjo fitting had a tap silver soldered you could leave it there or once system is purged of air cant see why you could not remove the banjo and refit bleed bolt if you needed to?
Think you are onto something Ken
Cheers Pete

On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Garratt unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:




Hi Roger,
One thing I have learnt about accidentally expelling G12+ coolant is that it is a very effective albeit expensive lawn killer!

I've always lusted after a refill/air-bleed procedure that can readily be CONTROLLED by a SOLE operator ideally in a relaxed state of mind, with the convenience to be stationed only at the expansion tank from the moment after I've opened the radiator bleeder until I'm finished filling & bleeding and ready to shut the motor down. By comparison, in my opinion the Bentley coolant change/bleed procedure is a disaster for a SOLE operator and never fails to fill me with terror!

RE your suggestion: "I have always dreamed of having a bleed-valve on top of the radiator, with a flexible hose, so that you can save the coolant expelled during the bleeding process without making a mess."
So Roger, to perhaps extend your dream idea further ... I've often wondered how to attach (seal) and run a small flexible hose from the radiator bleeder back to the expansion bottle, so creating a complete coolant loop for the fill/bleed procedure. This would enable complete control of coolant being fed into the system and at the same time, monitor for the cessation of bled air from the loop return hose. So maybe utilising your bleed-valve idea would do it. And to make the SOLE operator job even easier, I now fit a home made attachment to the expansion tank that elevates the fill position to a convenient height that is at least above the radiator bleeder level, dependent upon jacking height of the front of the van or not. So when satisfied with filling & bleeding, I can cut the 2000 rpm of the motor and not be concerned with coolant back-flushing out of the expansion tank, as it otherwise tries to do. Works for me even without the coolant loop hose, but I reckon even better setup with it. See the pics of the home made attachment.

The only issue for me perhaps against modifying the present radiator bleeder arrangement would be if modifying to a bleed/valve design, whether that would then prevent being able to manually bleed air trapped in the radiator by simply squirting coolant into the bleed hole till it's full. I find this method of occasional air-bleeding the radiator pretty handy.

Grist for the mill? Any other ideas/comments, please feel free to add to the discussion.

On another issue to do with G11 verses G12+ coolant for our vans.
Note: I have no opinion myself on this, just passing along for others to be aware of and/or comment.

I was told recently by my local mechanic that the semi-retired VW mechanic we both know told him that before the days of G12+, VW service personnel had a device or a sort of litmus test that could reveal the condition of G11 coolant in the system, the result would determine whether or not the coolant was due for replacement or not. Whereas this test was lost with introduction of G12+ formula. There may have been some other particular benefit as well, perhaps to do with original head studs V stainless steel alternatives, but I've since forgotten. In any event, it was the opinion of the semi-retired VW mechanic that we all should still be using G11 and not G12+ in our MV 2.1 water-cooled motors. In particular that G12+ was principally designed for later technology VW motors. I could perhaps seek greater clarity on this and any other matter if it was beneficial.

Cheers Roger. So far the count is seven members interested in the radiator. Lets keep it going ppl, the more the merrier!
Ken



-------- Original message --------
From: "Roger Bayley gullyraker53@gmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia]" <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 27/11/2015 10:51 PM (GMT+10:00)
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Radiator replacement



Good idea Ken. I have always dreamed of having a bleed-valve on top of the radiator, with a flexible hose, so that you can save the coolant expelled during the bleeding process without making a mess.

Perhaps an all-aluminium radiator would be the go, to dispense with the troublesome plastic tanks and O ring seals.

Can we start a new thread to gauge the interest out there. I'm thinking that the more that we order, the cheaper they will be.

Roger B.




3

For the record, participants to date:

Roger Bayley
Jon Bartlett
Hartmut Kiehn
Peter Coe
Ken Garratt
Rowan Harding
Robert Dale
____________
____________
____________
____________
Please add your name to the list if participating. Ta
Ken

4

I had work done by Volkspower soon after I acquired my Syncro and one of the mechanics there had made a filler device that worked the same way but did not use a breather.  It was just a large diameter (probably 40-50 mm) tube that screwed onto the reservoir.  He told me that the system was self-bleeding with such a device and that he periodically cross-checked by opening the bleeder in the top of the radiator and never found any air in it.

Reminder to all: to completely bleed the system, the heater MUST be fully open or air will remain in the heater coils.

Les

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ]
Sent: 28 November 2015 16:29
To: Syncro Australia Forum
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Radiator Group Buy - Expressions of interest

Grist for the mill? Any other ideas/comments, please feel free to add to the discussion. 

Cheers Roger. So far the count is seven members interested in the radiator. Lets keep it going ppl, the more the merrier!

Ken

5
What you report hasn't been my experience with using my attachment, albeit I agree his and my attachment would do the same function. Despite this procedure being so much simpler and effective, particularly for a sole operator, I still find some residual air lurking at the top of the radiator. Not a big deal ... my advice would be in any event that after a few short runs in the van, check and manually top up with coolant straight into the open radiator bleed hole. Works for me.

However I would still like to try the full loop hose method, the unresolved killer issues are that there is so little room to work within the limited space above the open radiator bleeder to install anything extra and as well, the ability to seal an extension hose onto the radiator bleed fitting given it has in it a vertical vent slot in its metal thread. The combination of these two issues defeats any attempt so far at sealing a hose onto it. Hence the idea at looking for a modded solution.

The hose shown on my attachment is not a breather. It serves only as a drainer. Enables the evacuation of residual coolant still in the attachment by lowering the hose end into a collector bottle temporarily located under the expansion tank. Avoids any unnecessary coolant mess when removing the attachment. To do otherwise risks spilt coolant causing totally noxious fumes from the exhaust pipe when the motor is started. 
Ken

   
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 16:59:17 +1100
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Radiator Group Buy - Expressions of interest

 

I had work done by Volkspower soon after I acquired my Syncro and one of the mechanics there had made a filler device that worked the same way but did not use a breather.  It was just a large diameter (probably 40-50 mm) tube that screwed onto the reservoir.  He told me that the system was self-bleeding with such a device and that he periodically cross-checked by opening the bleeder in the top of the radiator and never found any air in it.

Reminder to all: to completely bleed the system, the heater MUST be fully open or air will remain in the heater coils.

Les

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 28 November 2015 16:29
To: Syncro Australia Forum
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Radiator Group Buy - Expressions of interest

Grist for the mill? Any other ideas/comments, please feel free to add to the discussion. 

Cheers Roger. So far the count is seven members interested in the radiator. Lets keep it going ppl, the more the merrier!

Ken


6
Hi Pete,
Yeah thanks, a wee small (ie not tall) banjo fitting with a tail to suit a hose MIGHT do it, the limited head space above the radiator bleeder to insert both the banjo, seals and bolt does not help.

No idea if such a wee small banjo bolt with a smallish tail and to suit original bolt diameter is available.

Search and see. There are lots of banjo bolt images online to view.
Cheers.
Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 15:57:07 +1000
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Radiator Group Buy - Expressions of interest

 

Think you might be able to bolt a banjo fitting and drilled bolt to the radiator bleed bolt then run a hose back to filler tank cap that's modified................. maybe don't need to modify? 
 If the hose had a tap up near the bleed screw you could drain the hose back to the tank so no waste. 
 If the banjo fitting had a tap silver soldered you could leave it there or once system is purged of air cant see why you could not remove the banjo and refit bleed bolt if you needed to?
Think you are onto something Ken
Cheers Pete

On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Garratt unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 




Hi Roger,
One thing I have learnt about accidentally expelling G12+ coolant is that it is a very effective albeit expensive lawn killer!

I've always lusted after a refill/air-bleed procedure that can readily be CONTROLLED by a SOLE operator ideally in a relaxed state of mind, with the convenience to be stationed only at the expansion tank from the moment after I've opened the radiator bleeder until I'm finished filling & bleeding and ready to shut the motor down. By comparison, in my opinion the Bentley coolant change/bleed procedure is a disaster for a SOLE operator and never fails to fill me with terror!

RE your suggestion: "I have always dreamed of having a bleed-valve on top of the radiator, with a flexible hose, so that you can save the coolant expelled during the bleeding process without making a mess."
 
So Roger, to perhaps extend your dream idea further ... I've often wondered how to attach (seal) and run a small flexible hose from the radiator bleeder back to the expansion bottle, so creating a complete coolant loop for the fill/bleed procedure. This would enable complete control of coolant being fed into the system and at the same time, monitor for the cessation of bled air from the loop return hose. So maybe utilising your bleed-valve idea would do it. And to make the SOLE operator job even easier, I now fit a home made attachment to the expansion tank that elevates the fill position to a convenient height that is at least above the radiator bleeder level, dependent upon jacking height of the front of the van or not. So when satisfied with filling & bleeding, I can cut the 2000 rpm of the motor and not be concerned with coolant back-flushing out of the expansion tank, as it otherwise tries to do. Works for me even without the coolant loop hose, but I reckon even better setup with it. See the pics of the home made attachment.

The only issue for me perhaps against modifying the present radiator bleeder arrangement would be if modifying to a  bleed/valve design, whether that would then prevent being able to manually bleed air trapped in the radiator by simply squirting coolant into the bleed hole till it's full. I find this method of occasional air-bleeding the radiator pretty handy.

Grist for the mill? Any other ideas/comments, please feel free to add to the discussion. 

On another issue to do with G11 verses G12+ coolant for our vans.
Note:  I have no opinion myself on this, just passing along for others to be aware of and/or comment.

I was told recently by my local mechanic that the semi-retired VW mechanic we both know told him that before the days of G12+, VW service personnel had a device or a sort of litmus test that could reveal the condition of G11 coolant in the system, the result would determine whether or not the coolant was due for replacement or not. Whereas this test was lost with introduction of G12+ formula. There may have been some other particular benefit as well, perhaps to do with original head studs V stainless steel alternatives, but I've since forgotten. In any event, it was the opinion of the semi-retired VW mechanic that we all should still be using G11 and not G12+ in our MV 2.1 water-cooled motors. In particular that G12+ was principally designed for later technology VW motors. I could perhaps seek greater clarity on this and any other matter if it was beneficial.

Cheers Roger. So far the count is seven members interested in the radiator. Lets keep it going ppl, the more the merrier!
Ken



-------- Original message --------
From: "Roger Bayley gullyraker53@gmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia]" <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 27/11/2015 10:51 PM (GMT+10:00)
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Radiator replacement


 

Good idea Ken. I have always dreamed of having a bleed-valve on top of the radiator, with a flexible hose, so that you can save the coolant expelled during the bleeding process without making a mess.

Perhaps an all-aluminium radiator would be the go, to dispense with the troublesome plastic tanks and O ring seals. 

Can we start a new thread to gauge the interest out there. I'm thinking that the more that we order, the cheaper they will be.

Roger B.







7
Hi Ken and all - re the extended filler pipe when filling with coolant - I use a home-made extended plastic filler pipe which lives at home in the shed. Thus, it was no help at all when the system sprung a leak and needed refilling far from home, at six a.m. in a snow-storm near Orange.

I fixed the leaky hose, and had to resort to the standard method of running the engine until the coolant flowed freely out of the radiator bleeder valve.

For those that haven't yet had the pleasure, it is a small bolt that is removed from the top of the radiator to allow trapped air to escape from the system. It squirts out like "Old Faithfull" when full, but cannot be seen by a lone operator from the rear of the vehicle or from the driver's seat.

So it involved a lot of running around between the back of the car, the ignition switch and accelerator, then the front of the car. A lot of coolant ended up on the snow, which was a real bummer, because I only carry 1.5 litres of the stuff.

A bleeder tap and hose connected to an overflow bottle would make the process much simpler and less wasteful.

The question is whether or not there will be room to fit the banjo and nut on top of the header tank. Since it needs to be at the highest point, it might require a different shaped header tank to accommodate the modification.

A brass hex-plug next to the bleed-valve would allow easy coolant top-up.

I will eyeball the situation when I get home to check out the possibilities.

Most of my reliability issues over the years have been caused by coolant issues so it would be good to come up with a bullet-proof radiator to match the other stainless-steel and siicone components that have already been installed.

I purchased a solid aluminium Australian-made radiator for the Rangie a few years ago. It cost a bit more than the standard after-market unit, but was of much better quality.

Beware of cheap radiators coming out of China. A mate fitted one to his Prado recently, and it caused no end of overheating problems. He replaced it with a quality unit, and the problem was solved.

Has anyone out there got an old Syncro radiator to donate as a pattern?

Cheers, Roger B.
8
Just saw a fellow on another forum using a pump garden sprat about 10 ltr plastic type we all have in our shed. still a two man job if you don't want a spill Suspect he fitted it to the over flow on the cap
Did not see the method but suspect you don't need motor going and top up after a few shot runs. might be worth a try ken
cheers

On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Ken Garratt unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Pete,
Yeah thanks, a wee small (ie not tall) banjo fitting with a tail to suit a hose MIGHT do it, the limited head space above the radiator bleeder to insert both the banjo, seals and bolt does not help.

No idea if such a wee small banjo bolt with a smallish tail and to suit original bolt diameter is available.

Search and see. There are lots of banjo bolt images online to view.
Cheers.
Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 15:57:07 +1000
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Radiator Group Buy - Expressions of interest



Think you might be able to bolt a banjo fitting and drilled bolt to the radiator bleed bolt then run a hose back to filler tank cap that's modified................. maybe don't need to modify?
If the hose had a tap up near the bleed screw you could drain the hose back to the tank so no waste.
If the banjo fitting had a tap silver soldered you could leave it there or once system is purged of air cant see why you could not remove the banjo and refit bleed bolt if you needed to?
Think you are onto something Ken
Cheers Pete

On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Garratt unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:




Hi Roger,
One thing I have learnt about accidentally expelling G12+ coolant is that it is a very effective albeit expensive lawn killer!

I've always lusted after a refill/air-bleed procedure that can readily be CONTROLLED by a SOLE operator ideally in a relaxed state of mind, with the convenience to be stationed only at the expansion tank from the moment after I've opened the radiator bleeder until I'm finished filling & bleeding and ready to shut the motor down. By comparison, in my opinion the Bentley coolant change/bleed procedure is a disaster for a SOLE operator and never fails to fill me with terror!

RE your suggestion: "I have always dreamed of having a bleed-valve on top of the radiator, with a flexible hose, so that you can save the coolant expelled during the bleeding process without making a mess."
So Roger, to perhaps extend your dream idea further ... I've often wondered how to attach (seal) and run a small flexible hose from the radiator bleeder back to the expansion bottle, so creating a complete coolant loop for the fill/bleed procedure. This would enable complete control of coolant being fed into the system and at the same time, monitor for the cessation of bled air from the loop return hose. So maybe utilising your bleed-valve idea would do it. And to make the SOLE operator job even easier, I now fit a home made attachment to the expansion tank that elevates the fill position to a convenient height that is at least above the radiator bleeder level, dependent upon jacking height of the front of the van or not. So when satisfied with filling & bleeding, I can cut the 2000 rpm of the motor and not be concerned with coolant back-flushing out of the expansion tank, as it otherwise tries to do. Works for me even without the coolant loop hose, but I reckon even better setup with it. See the pics of the home made attachment.

The only issue for me perhaps against modifying the present radiator bleeder arrangement would be if modifying to a bleed/valve design, whether that would then prevent being able to manually bleed air trapped in the radiator by simply squirting coolant into the bleed hole till it's full. I find this method of occasional air-bleeding the radiator pretty handy.

Grist for the mill? Any other ideas/comments, please feel free to add to the discussion.

On another issue to do with G11 verses G12+ coolant for our vans.
Note: I have no opinion myself on this, just passing along for others to be aware of and/or comment.

I was told recently by my local mechanic that the semi-retired VW mechanic we both know told him that before the days of G12+, VW service personnel had a device or a sort of litmus test that could reveal the condition of G11 coolant in the system, the result would determine whether or not the coolant was due for replacement or not. Whereas this test was lost with introduction of G12+ formula. There may have been some other particular benefit as well, perhaps to do with original head studs V stainless steel alternatives, but I've since forgotten. In any event, it was the opinion of the semi-retired VW mechanic that we all should still be using G11 and not G12+ in our MV 2.1 water-cooled motors. In particular that G12+ was principally designed for later technology VW motors. I could perhaps seek greater clarity on this and any other matter if it was beneficial.

Cheers Roger. So far the count is seven members interested in the radiator. Lets keep it going ppl, the more the merrier!
Ken



-------- Original message --------
From: "Roger Bayley gullyraker53@gmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia]" <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 27/11/2015 10:51 PM (GMT+10:00)
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Radiator replacement



Good idea Ken. I have always dreamed of having a bleed-valve on top of the radiator, with a flexible hose, so that you can save the coolant expelled during the bleeding process without making a mess.

Perhaps an all-aluminium radiator would be the go, to dispense with the troublesome plastic tanks and O ring seals.

Can we start a new thread to gauge the interest out there. I'm thinking that the more that we order, the cheaper they will be.

Roger B.








9
Thanks Ken,
You've done a great job of clarifying the subject.
The photos were particularly helpful.
Peter


--Original Message Text---
From: Ken Garratt unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia]
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 16:29:11 +1100






Hi Roger,
One thing I have learnt about accidentally expelling G12+ coolant is that it is a very effective albeit expensive lawn killer!


I've always lusted after a refill/air-bleed procedure that can readily be CONTROLLED by a SOLE operator ideally in a relaxed state of mind, with the convenience to be stationed only at the expansion tank from the moment after I've opened the radiator bleeder until I'm finished filling & bleeding and ready to shut the motor down. By comparison, in my opinion the Bentley coolant change/bleed procedure is a disaster for a SOLE operator and never fails to fill me with terror!


RE your suggestion: "I have always dreamed of having a bleed-valve on top of the radiator, with a flexible hose, so that you can save the coolant expelled during the bleeding process without making a mess."
So Roger, to perhaps extend your dream idea further ... I've often wondered how to attach (seal) and run a small flexible hose from the radiator bleeder back to the expansion bottle, so creating a complete coolant loop for the fill/bleed procedure. This would enable complete control of coolant being fed into the system and at the same time, monitor for the cessation of bled air from the loop return hose. So maybe utilising your bleed-valve idea would do it. And to make the SOLE operator job even easier, I now fit a home made attachment to the expansion tank that elevates the fill position to a convenient height that is at least above the radiator bleeder level, dependent upon jacking height of the front of the van or not. So when satisfied with filling & bleeding, I can cut the 2000 rpm of the motor and not be concerned with coolant back-flushing out of the expansion tank, as it otherwise tries to do. Works for me even without the coolant loop hose, but I reckon even better setup with it. See the pics of the home made attachment.


The only issue for me perhaps against modifying the present radiator bleeder arrangement would be if modifying to a bleed/valve design, whether that would then prevent being able to manually bleed air trapped in the radiator by simply squirting coolant into the bleed hole till it's full. I find this method of occasional air-bleeding the radiator pretty handy.


Grist for the mill? Any other ideas/comments, please feel free to add to the discussion.


On another issue to do with G11 verses G12+ coolant for our vans.
Note: I have no opinion myself on this, just passing along for others to be aware of and/or comment.


I was told recently by my local mechanic that the semi-retired VW mechanic we both know told him that before the days of G12+, VW service personnel had a device or a sort of litmus test that could reveal the condition of G11 coolant in the system, the result would determine whether or not the coolant was due for replacement or not. Whereas this test was lost with introduction of G12+ formula. There may have been some other particular benefit as well, perhaps to do with original head studs V stainless steel alternatives, but I've since forgotten. In any event, it was the opinion of the semi-retired VW mechanic that we all should still be using G11 and not G12+ in our MV 2.1 water-cooled motors. In particular that G12+ was principally designed for later technology VW motors. I could perhaps seek greater clarity on this and any other matter if it was beneficial.


Cheers Roger. So far the count is seven members interested in the radiator. Lets keep it going ppl, the more the merrier!
Ken



-------- Original message --------
From: "Roger Bayley gullyraker53@gmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia]" <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 27/11/2015 10:51 PM (GMT+10:00)
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Radiator replacement



Good idea Ken. I have always dreamed of having a bleed-valve on top of the radiator, with a flexible hose, so that you can save the coolant expelled during the bleeding process without making a mess.

Perhaps an all-aluminium radiator would be the go, to dispense with the troublesome plastic tanks and O ring seals.


Can we start a new thread to gauge the interest out there. I'm thinking that the more that we order, the cheaper they will be.


Roger B.



















10
Hi Pete,
Sorry ... not at all clear what he was trying to achieve employing a modded pressure spray bottle. Complete or partial refill?  Air bleed? Engine on/off and hot/cold? Need more info to better understand what procedure is being attempted.

The thing that doesn't get much discussion here is which complete refill method individuals choose to achieve a good result. Method choice can vary dependant upon whether a system is in a fully or partly evacuated state and if the latter, how much residue remains and is it new or old coolant or tap or distilled flush-out water. Each of those variables can influence next choice as to whether to start refilling first with distilled water, premixed or concentrate coolant and how much of each so as to ensure all residual fluid is first fully evacuated and at the same time, not over evacuate and waste new coolant spilt out the radiator bleeder.

I know the above concerns at least me, given I've never been able to fully evacuate coolant system prior to a refill, hence employing a "workaround" method. So for me, after flushing the system with whatever, I always finish LOAD with motor on and thermostat open using say 20 litres of distilled water, heater control open of course. After cool down, drain ideally more than half that LOAD, replace with concentrate plus distilled water top-up to achieve a final 50-50 mix. Fiddly? Probably. Other practical method choice for my van? None that I know of yet.

Cheers.
Ken






-------- Original message --------
From: "Peter Wilson peterw1000@gmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia]" <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 29/11/2015 12:26 AM (GMT+10:00)
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Radiator Group Buy - Expressions of interest


 

Just saw a fellow on another forum using a pump garden sprat about 10 ltr plastic type we all have in our shed. still a two man job if you don't want a spill Suspect he fitted it to the over flow on the cap
Did not see the method but suspect you don't need motor going and top up after a few shot runs. might be worth a try ken
cheers

On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Ken Garratt unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Hi Pete,
Yeah thanks, a wee small (ie not tall) banjo fitting with a tail to suit a hose MIGHT do it, the limited head space above the radiator bleeder to insert both the banjo, seals and bolt does not help.

No idea if such a wee small banjo bolt with a smallish tail and to suit original bolt diameter is available.

Search and see. There are lots of banjo bolt images online to view.
Cheers.
Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 15:57:07 +1000
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Radiator Group Buy - Expressions of interest


 

Think you might be able to bolt a banjo fitting and drilled bolt to the radiator bleed bolt then run a hose back to filler tank cap that's modified................. maybe don't need to modify? 
 If the hose had a tap up near the bleed screw you could drain the hose back to the tank so no waste. 
 If the banjo fitting had a tap silver soldered you could leave it there or once system is purged of air cant see why you could not remove the banjo and refit bleed bolt if you needed to?
Think you are onto something Ken
Cheers Pete

On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Garratt unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 




Hi Roger,
One thing I have learnt about accidentally expelling G12+ coolant is that it is a very effective albeit expensive lawn killer!

I've always lusted after a refill/air-bleed procedure that can readily be CONTROLLED by a SOLE operator ideally in a relaxed state of mind, with the convenience to be stationed only at the expansion tank from the moment after I've opened the radiator bleeder until I'm finished filling & bleeding and ready to shut the motor down. By comparison, in my opinion the Bentley coolant change/bleed procedure is a disaster for a SOLE operator and never fails to fill me with terror!

RE your suggestion: "I have always dreamed of having a bleed-valve on top of the radiator, with a flexible hose, so that you can save the coolant expelled during the bleeding process without making a mess."
 
So Roger, to perhaps extend your dream idea further ... I've often wondered how to attach (seal) and run a small flexible hose from the radiator bleeder back to the expansion bottle, so creating a complete coolant loop for the fill/bleed procedure. This would enable complete control of coolant being fed into the system and at the same time, monitor for the cessation of bled air from the loop return hose. So maybe utilising your bleed-valve idea would do it. And to make the SOLE operator job even easier, I now fit a home made attachment to the expansion tank that elevates the fill position to a convenient height that is at least above the radiator bleeder level, dependent upon jacking height of the front of the van or not. So when satisfied with filling & bleeding, I can cut the 2000 rpm of the motor and not be concerned with coolant back-flushing out of the expansion tank, as it otherwise tries to do. Works for me even without the coolant loop hose, but I reckon even better setup with it. See the pics of the home made attachment.

The only issue for me perhaps against modifying the present radiator bleeder arrangement would be if modifying to a  bleed/valve design, whether that would then prevent being able to manually bleed air trapped in the radiator by simply squirting coolant into the bleed hole till it's full. I find this method of occasional air-bleeding the radiator pretty handy.

Grist for the mill? Any other ideas/comments, please feel free to add to the discussion. 

On another issue to do with G11 verses G12+ coolant for our vans.
Note:  I have no opinion myself on this, just passing along for others to be aware of and/or comment.

I was told recently by my local mechanic that the semi-retired VW mechanic we both know told him that before the days of G12+, VW service personnel had a device or a sort of litmus test that could reveal the condition of G11 coolant in the system, the result would determine whether or not the coolant was due for replacement or not. Whereas this test was lost with introduction of G12+ formula. There may have been some other particular benefit as well, perhaps to do with original head studs V stainless steel alternatives, but I've since forgotten. In any event, it was the opinion of the semi-retired VW mechanic that we all should still be using G11 and not G12+ in our MV 2.1 water-cooled motors. In particular that G12+ was principally designed for later technology VW motors. I could perhaps seek greater clarity on this and any other matter if it was beneficial.

Cheers Roger. So far the count is seven members interested in the radiator. Lets keep it going ppl, the more the merrier!
Ken



-------- Original message --------
From: "Roger Bayley gullyraker53@gmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia]" <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 27/11/2015 10:51 PM (GMT+10:00)
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Radiator replacement


 

Good idea Ken. I have always dreamed of having a bleed-valve on top of the radiator, with a flexible hose, so that you can save the coolant expelled during the bleeding process without making a mess.

Perhaps an all-aluminium radiator would be the go, to dispense with the troublesome plastic tanks and O ring seals. 

Can we start a new thread to gauge the interest out there. I'm thinking that the more that we order, the cheaper they will be.

Roger B.








11
I have a spare radiator in the shed Im just not sure if it is a syncro one or not. If it is it can be used for prototyping..  How can I tell? 


On Sun, 29 Nov, 2015 at 10:40, 'Peter Schweinsberg' peter@peterandval.com [Syncro_T3_Australia]
<Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Thanks Ken,
You've done a great job of clarifying the subject.
The photos were particularly helpful.
Peter


--Original Message Text---
From: Ken Garratt unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia]
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 16:29:11 +1100






Hi Roger,
One thing I have learnt about accidentally expelling G12+ coolant is that it is a very effective albeit expensive lawn killer!


I've always lusted after a refill/air-bleed procedure that can readily be CONTROLLED by a SOLE operator ideally in a relaxed state of mind, with the convenience to be stationed only at the expansion tank from the moment after I've opened the radiator bleeder until I'm finished filling bleeding and ready to shut the motor down. By comparison, in my opinion the Bentley coolant change/bleed procedure is a disaster for a SOLE operator and never fails to fill me with terror!


RE your suggestion: "I have always dreamed of having a bleed-valve on top of the radiator, with a flexible hose, so that you can save the coolant expelled during the bleeding process without making a mess."
So Roger, to perhaps extend your dream idea further ... I've often wondered how to attach (seal) and run a small flexible hose from the radiator bleeder back to the expansion bottle, so creating a complete coolant loop for the fill/bleed procedure. This would enable complete control of coolant being fed into the system and at the same time, monitor for the cessation of bled air from the loop return hose. So maybe utilising your bleed-valve idea would do it. And to make the SOLE operator job even easier, I now fit a home made attachment to the expansion tank that elevates the fill position to a convenient height that is at least above the radiator bleeder level, dependent upon jacking height of the front of the van or not. So when satisfied with filling bleeding, I can cut the 2000 rpm of the motor and not be concerned with coolant back-flushing out of the expansion tank, as it otherwise tries to do. Works for me even without the coolant loop hose, but I reckon even better setup with it. See the pics of the home made attachment.


The only issue for me perhaps against modifying the present radiator bleeder arrangement would be if modifying to a bleed/valve design, whether that would then prevent being able to manually bleed air trapped in the radiator by simply squirting coolant into the bleed hole till it's full. I find this method of occasional air-bleeding the radiator pretty handy.


Grist for the mill? Any other ideas/comments, please feel free to add to the discussion.


On another issue to do with G11 verses G12+ coolant for our vans.
Note: I have no opinion myself on this, just passing along for others to be aware of and/or comment.


I was told recently by my local mechanic that the semi-retired VW mechanic we both know told him that before the days of G12+, VW service personnel had a device or a sort of litmus test that could reveal the condition of G11 coolant in the system, the result would determine whether or not the coolant was due for replacement or not. Whereas this test was lost with introduction of G12+ formula. There may have been some other particular benefit as well, perhaps to do with original head studs V stainless steel alternatives, but I've since forgotten. In any event, it was the opinion of the semi-retired VW mechanic that we all should still be using G11 and not G12+ in our MV 2.1 water-cooled motors. In particular that G12+ was principally designed for later technology VW motors. I could perhaps seek greater clarity on this and any other matter if it was beneficial.


Cheers Roger. So far the count is seven members interested in the radiator. Lets keep it going ppl, the more the merrier!
Ken



-------- Original message --------
From: "Roger Bayley gullyraker53@gmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia]" <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 27/11/2015 10:51 PM (GMT+10:00)
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Radiator replacement



Good idea Ken. I have always dreamed of having a bleed-valve on top of the radiator, with a flexible hose, so that you can save the coolant expelled during the bleeding process without making a mess.

Perhaps an all-aluminium radiator would be the go, to dispense with the troublesome plastic tanks and O ring seals.


Can we start a new thread to gauge the interest out there. I'm thinking that the more that we order, the cheaper they will be.


Roger B.



















12
Ken stole this shot from a similar forum don't think they will mind ?? Does not show method but im sure it would be self everdent tried once, bit of a wire cluster ?
Cheers

On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 11:17 AM, unclekenz unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Pete,
Sorry ... not at all clear what he was trying to achieve employing a modded pressure spray bottle. Complete or partial refill? Air bleed? Engine on/off and hot/cold? Need more info to better understand what procedure is being attempted.

The thing that doesn't get much discussion here is which complete refill method individuals choose to achieve a good result. Method choice can vary dependant upon whether a system is in a fully or partly evacuated state and if the latter, how much residue remains and is it new or old coolant or tap or distilled flush-out water. Each of those variables can influence next choice as to whether to start refilling first with distilled water, premixed or concentrate coolant and how much of each so as to ensure all residual fluid is first fully evacuated and at the same time, not over evacuate and waste new coolant spilt out the radiator bleeder.

I know the above concerns at least me, given I've never been able to fully evacuate coolant system prior to a refill, hence employing a "workaround" method. So for me, after flushing the system with whatever, I always finish LOAD with motor on and thermostat open using say 20 litres of distilled water, heater control open of course. After cool down, drain ideally more than half that LOAD, replace with concentrate plus distilled water top-up to achieve a final 50-50 mix. Fiddly? Probably. Other practical method choice for my van? None that I know of yet.

Cheers.
Ken






-------- Original message --------
 From: "Peter Wilson peterw1000@gmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia]" <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 29/11/2015 12:26 AM (GMT+10:00)
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Radiator Group Buy - Expressions of interest


Just saw a fellow on another forum using a pump garden sprat about 10 ltr plastic type we all have in our shed. still a two man job if you don't want a spill Suspect he fitted it to the over flow on the cap
Did not see the method but suspect you don't need motor going and top up after a few shot runs. might be worth a try ken
cheers

On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Ken Garratt unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Pete,
Yeah thanks, a wee small (ie not tall) banjo fitting with a tail to suit a hose MIGHT do it, the limited head space above the radiator bleeder to insert both the banjo, seals and bolt does not help.

No idea if such a wee small banjo bolt with a smallish tail and to suit original bolt diameter is available.

Search and see. There are lots of banjo bolt images online to view.
Cheers.
Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 15:57:07 +1000
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Radiator Group Buy - Expressions of interest



Think you might be able to bolt a banjo fitting and drilled bolt to the radiator bleed bolt then run a hose back to filler tank cap that's modified................. maybe don't need to modify?
If the hose had a tap up near the bleed screw you could drain the hose back to the tank so no waste.
If the banjo fitting had a tap silver soldered you could leave it there or once system is purged of air cant see why you could not remove the banjo and refit bleed bolt if you needed to?
Think you are onto something Ken
Cheers Pete

On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Garratt unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:




Hi Roger,
One thing I have learnt about accidentally expelling G12+ coolant is that it is a very effective albeit expensive lawn killer!

I've always lusted after a refill/air-bleed procedure that can readily be CONTROLLED by a SOLE operator ideally in a relaxed state of mind, with the convenience to be stationed only at the expansion tank from the moment after I've opened the radiator bleeder until I'm finished filling & bleeding and ready to shut the motor down. By comparison, in my opinion the Bentley coolant change/bleed procedure is a disaster for a SOLE operator and never fails to fill me with terror!

RE your suggestion: "I have always dreamed of having a bleed-valve on top of the radiator, with a flexible hose, so that you can save the coolant expelled during the bleeding process without making a mess."
So Roger, to perhaps extend your dream idea further ... I've often wondered how to attach (seal) and run a small flexible hose from the radiator bleeder back to the expansion bottle, so creating a complete coolant loop for the fill/bleed procedure. This would enable complete control of coolant being fed into the system and at the same time, monitor for the cessation of bled air from the loop return hose. So maybe utilising your bleed-valve idea would do it. And to make the SOLE operator job even easier, I now fit a home made attachment to the expansion tank that elevates the fill position to a convenient height that is at least above the radiator bleeder level, dependent upon jacking height of the front of the van or not. So when satisfied with filling & bleeding, I can cut the 2000 rpm of the motor and not be concerned with coolant back-flushing out of the expansion tank, as it otherwise tries to do. Works for me even without the coolant loop hose, but I reckon even better setup with it. See the pics of the home made attachment.

The only issue for me perhaps against modifying the present radiator bleeder arrangement would be if modifying to a bleed/valve design, whether that would then prevent being able to manually bleed air trapped in the radiator by simply squirting coolant into the bleed hole till it's full. I find this method of occasional air-bleeding the radiator pretty handy.

Grist for the mill? Any other ideas/comments, please feel free to add to the discussion.

On another issue to do with G11 verses G12+ coolant for our vans.
Note: I have no opinion myself on this, just passing along for others to be aware of and/or comment.

I was told recently by my local mechanic that the semi-retired VW mechanic we both know told him that before the days of G12+, VW service personnel had a device or a sort of litmus test that could reveal the condition of G11 coolant in the system, the result would determine whether or not the coolant was due for replacement or not. Whereas this test was lost with introduction of G12+ formula. There may have been some other particular benefit as well, perhaps to do with original head studs V stainless steel alternatives, but I've since forgotten. In any event, it was the opinion of the semi-retired VW mechanic that we all should still be using G11 and not G12+ in our MV 2.1 water-cooled motors. In particular that G12+ was principally designed for later technology VW motors. I could perhaps seek greater clarity on this and any other matter if it was beneficial.

Cheers Roger. So far the count is seven members interested in the radiator. Lets keep it going ppl, the more the merrier!
Ken



-------- Original message --------
From: "Roger Bayley gullyraker53@gmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia]" <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 27/11/2015 10:51 PM (GMT+10:00)
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Radiator replacement



Good idea Ken. I have always dreamed of having a bleed-valve on top of the radiator, with a flexible hose, so that you can save the coolant expelled during the bleeding process without making a mess.

Perhaps an all-aluminium radiator would be the go, to dispense with the troublesome plastic tanks and O ring seals.

Can we start a new thread to gauge the interest out there. I'm thinking that the more that we order, the cheaper they will be.

Roger B.









13
My 10 cents worth.
Pictured is the setup I use to bleed the coolant. the small fitting screws into the radiator and a hose attaches to the bottle. The other hose goes to a vacuum pump.
It would be nice to add a tap to the small fitting so it can be left in place.
There is room for it to fit if you pull out the angle grinder :-)

No need for engine running. One person job. 
Turn on pump, keep topping up the expansion tank and emptying the bottle when full.
Eventually the air all comes out.

I do have a hybrid cooling system (suby engine) designed by me which I wondered would ever work...
It turns out it works, but impossible to bleed without a vacuum :-(

PK
14
Ha! So is that all it takes to do a Subie conversion? Piece of cake!
Ken



-------- Original message --------
From: "Peter Wilson peterw1000@gmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia]" <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 29/11/2015 1:05 PM (GMT+10:00)
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Radiator Group Buy - Expressions of interest


 

Ken stole this shot from a similar forum don't think they will mind ?? Does not show method but im sure it would be self everdent tried once, bit of a wire cluster ?
Cheers

On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 11:17 AM, unclekenz unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Hi Pete,
Sorry ... not at all clear what he was trying to achieve employing a modded pressure spray bottle. Complete or partial refill?  Air bleed? Engine on/off and hot/cold? Need more info to better understand what procedure is being attempted.

The thing that doesn't get much discussion here is which complete refill method individuals choose to achieve a good result. Method choice can vary dependant upon whether a system is in a fully or partly evacuated state and if the latter, how much residue remains and is it new or old coolant or tap or distilled flush-out water. Each of those variables can influence next choice as to whether to start refilling first with distilled water, premixed or concentrate coolant and how much of each so as to ensure all residual fluid is first fully evacuated and at the same time, not over evacuate and waste new coolant spilt out the radiator bleeder.

I know the above concerns at least me, given I've never been able to fully evacuate coolant system prior to a refill, hence employing a "workaround" method. So for me, after flushing the system with whatever, I always finish LOAD with motor on and thermostat open using say 20 litres of distilled water, heater control open of course. After cool down, drain ideally more than half that LOAD, replace with concentrate plus distilled water top-up to achieve a final 50-50 mix. Fiddly? Probably. Other practical method choice for my van? None that I know of yet.

Cheers.
Ken






-------- Original message --------
 From: "Peter Wilson peterw1000@gmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia]" <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 29/11/2015 12:26 AM (GMT+10:00)
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Radiator Group Buy - Expressions of interest


 

Just saw a fellow on another forum using a pump garden sprat about 10 ltr plastic type we all have in our shed. still a two man job if you don't want a spill Suspect he fitted it to the over flow on the cap
Did not see the method but suspect you don't need motor going and top up after a few shot runs. might be worth a try ken
cheers

On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Ken Garratt unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Hi Pete,
Yeah thanks, a wee small (ie not tall) banjo fitting with a tail to suit a hose MIGHT do it, the limited head space above the radiator bleeder to insert both the banjo, seals and bolt does not help.

No idea if such a wee small banjo bolt with a smallish tail and to suit original bolt diameter is available.

Search and see. There are lots of banjo bolt images online to view.
Cheers.
Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 15:57:07 +1000
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Radiator Group Buy - Expressions of interest


 

Think you might be able to bolt a banjo fitting and drilled bolt to the radiator bleed bolt then run a hose back to filler tank cap that's modified................. maybe don't need to modify? 
 If the hose had a tap up near the bleed screw you could drain the hose back to the tank so no waste. 
 If the banjo fitting had a tap silver soldered you could leave it there or once system is purged of air cant see why you could not remove the banjo and refit bleed bolt if you needed to?
Think you are onto something Ken
Cheers Pete

On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Garratt unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 




Hi Roger,
One thing I have learnt about accidentally expelling G12+ coolant is that it is a very effective albeit expensive lawn killer!

I've always lusted after a refill/air-bleed procedure that can readily be CONTROLLED by a SOLE operator ideally in a relaxed state of mind, with the convenience to be stationed only at the expansion tank from the moment after I've opened the radiator bleeder until I'm finished filling & bleeding and ready to shut the motor down. By comparison, in my opinion the Bentley coolant change/bleed procedure is a disaster for a SOLE operator and never fails to fill me with terror!

RE your suggestion: "I have always dreamed of having a bleed-valve on top of the radiator, with a flexible hose, so that you can save the coolant expelled during the bleeding process without making a mess."
 
So Roger, to perhaps extend your dream idea further ... I've often wondered how to attach (seal) and run a small flexible hose from the radiator bleeder back to the expansion bottle, so creating a complete coolant loop for the fill/bleed procedure. This would enable complete control of coolant being fed into the system and at the same time, monitor for the cessation of bled air from the loop return hose. So maybe utilising your bleed-valve idea would do it. And to make the SOLE operator job even easier, I now fit a home made attachment to the expansion tank that elevates the fill position to a convenient height that is at least above the radiator bleeder level, dependent upon jacking height of the front of the van or not. So when satisfied with filling & bleeding, I can cut the 2000 rpm of the motor and not be concerned with coolant back-flushing out of the expansion tank, as it otherwise tries to do. Works for me even without the coolant loop hose, but I reckon even better setup with it. See the pics of the home made attachment.

The only issue for me perhaps against modifying the present radiator bleeder arrangement would be if modifying to a  bleed/valve design, whether that would then prevent being able to manually bleed air trapped in the radiator by simply squirting coolant into the bleed hole till it's full. I find this method of occasional air-bleeding the radiator pretty handy.

Grist for the mill? Any other ideas/comments, please feel free to add to the discussion. 

On another issue to do with G11 verses G12+ coolant for our vans.
Note:  I have no opinion myself on this, just passing along for others to be aware of and/or comment.

I was told recently by my local mechanic that the semi-retired VW mechanic we both know told him that before the days of G12+, VW service personnel had a device or a sort of litmus test that could reveal the condition of G11 coolant in the system, the result would determine whether or not the coolant was due for replacement or not. Whereas this test was lost with introduction of G12+ formula. There may have been some other particular benefit as well, perhaps to do with original head studs V stainless steel alternatives, but I've since forgotten. In any event, it was the opinion of the semi-retired VW mechanic that we all should still be using G11 and not G12+ in our MV 2.1 water-cooled motors. In particular that G12+ was principally designed for later technology VW motors. I could perhaps seek greater clarity on this and any other matter if it was beneficial.

Cheers Roger. So far the count is seven members interested in the radiator. Lets keep it going ppl, the more the merrier!
Ken



-------- Original message --------
From: "Roger Bayley gullyraker53@gmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia]" <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 27/11/2015 10:51 PM (GMT+10:00)
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Radiator replacement


 

Good idea Ken. I have always dreamed of having a bleed-valve on top of the radiator, with a flexible hose, so that you can save the coolant expelled during the bleeding process without making a mess.

Perhaps an all-aluminium radiator would be the go, to dispense with the troublesome plastic tanks and O ring seals. 

Can we start a new thread to gauge the interest out there. I'm thinking that the more that we order, the cheaper they will be.

Roger B.









15
Hey Ken he got the Subi dash working with cruise control etc etc but yes a bit out of my reach you would be no worries with your tech head !!!

On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 3:12 PM, unclekenz unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Ha! So is that all it takes to do a Subie conversion? Piece of cake!

Ken



-------- Original message --------
From: "Peter Wilson peterw1000@gmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia]" <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 29/11/2015 1:05 PM (GMT+10:00)
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Radiator Group Buy - Expressions of interest


Ken stole this shot from a similar forum don't think they will mind ?? Does not show method but im sure it would be self everdent tried once, bit of a wire cluster ?
Cheers

On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 11:17 AM, unclekenz unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Pete,
Sorry ... not at all clear what he was trying to achieve employing a modded pressure spray bottle. Complete or partial refill? Air bleed? Engine on/off and hot/cold? Need more info to better understand what procedure is being attempted.

The thing that doesn't get much discussion here is which complete refill method individuals choose to achieve a good result. Method choice can vary dependant upon whether a system is in a fully or partly evacuated state and if the latter, how much residue remains and is it new or old coolant or tap or distilled flush-out water. Each of those variables can influence next choice as to whether to start refilling first with distilled water, premixed or concentrate coolant and how much of each so as to ensure all residual fluid is first fully evacuated and at the same time, not over evacuate and waste new coolant spilt out the radiator bleeder.

I know the above concerns at least me, given I've never been able to fully evacuate coolant system prior to a refill, hence employing a "workaround" method. So for me, after flushing the system with whatever, I always finish LOAD with motor on and thermostat open using say 20 litres of distilled water, heater control open of course. After cool down, drain ideally more than half that LOAD, replace with concentrate plus distilled water top-up to achieve a final 50-50 mix. Fiddly? Probably. Other practical method choice for my van? None that I know of yet.

Cheers.
Ken






-------- Original message --------
 From: "Peter Wilson peterw1000@gmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia]" <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 29/11/2015 12:26 AM (GMT+10:00)
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Radiator Group Buy - Expressions of interest


Just saw a fellow on another forum using a pump garden sprat about 10 ltr plastic type we all have in our shed. still a two man job if you don't want a spill Suspect he fitted it to the over flow on the cap
Did not see the method but suspect you don't need motor going and top up after a few shot runs. might be worth a try ken
cheers

On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Ken Garratt unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Pete,
Yeah thanks, a wee small (ie not tall) banjo fitting with a tail to suit a hose MIGHT do it, the limited head space above the radiator bleeder to insert both the banjo, seals and bolt does not help.

No idea if such a wee small banjo bolt with a smallish tail and to suit original bolt diameter is available.

Search and see. There are lots of banjo bolt images online to view.
Cheers.
Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 15:57:07 +1000
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Radiator Group Buy - Expressions of interest



Think you might be able to bolt a banjo fitting and drilled bolt to the radiator bleed bolt then run a hose back to filler tank cap that's modified................. maybe don't need to modify?
If the hose had a tap up near the bleed screw you could drain the hose back to the tank so no waste.
If the banjo fitting had a tap silver soldered you could leave it there or once system is purged of air cant see why you could not remove the banjo and refit bleed bolt if you needed to?
Think you are onto something Ken
Cheers Pete

On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Garratt unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:




Hi Roger,
One thing I have learnt about accidentally expelling G12+ coolant is that it is a very effective albeit expensive lawn killer!

I've always lusted after a refill/air-bleed procedure that can readily be CONTROLLED by a SOLE operator ideally in a relaxed state of mind, with the convenience to be stationed only at the expansion tank from the moment after I've opened the radiator bleeder until I'm finished filling & bleeding and ready to shut the motor down. By comparison, in my opinion the Bentley coolant change/bleed procedure is a disaster for a SOLE operator and never fails to fill me with terror!

RE your suggestion: "I have always dreamed of having a bleed-valve on top of the radiator, with a flexible hose, so that you can save the coolant expelled during the bleeding process without making a mess."
So Roger, to perhaps extend your dream idea further ... I've often wondered how to attach (seal) and run a small flexible hose from the radiator bleeder back to the expansion bottle, so creating a complete coolant loop for the fill/bleed procedure. This would enable complete control of coolant being fed into the system and at the same time, monitor for the cessation of bled air from the loop return hose. So maybe utilising your bleed-valve idea would do it. And to make the SOLE operator job even easier, I now fit a home made attachment to the expansion tank that elevates the fill position to a convenient height that is at least above the radiator bleeder level, dependent upon jacking height of the front of the van or not. So when satisfied with filling & bleeding, I can cut the 2000 rpm of the motor and not be concerned with coolant back-flushing out of the expansion tank, as it otherwise tries to do. Works for me even without the coolant loop hose, but I reckon even better setup with it. See the pics of the home made attachment.

The only issue for me perhaps against modifying the present radiator bleeder arrangement would be if modifying to a bleed/valve design, whether that would then prevent being able to manually bleed air trapped in the radiator by simply squirting coolant into the bleed hole till it's full. I find this method of occasional air-bleeding the radiator pretty handy.

Grist for the mill? Any other ideas/comments, please feel free to add to the discussion.

On another issue to do with G11 verses G12+ coolant for our vans.
Note: I have no opinion myself on this, just passing along for others to be aware of and/or comment.

I was told recently by my local mechanic that the semi-retired VW mechanic we both know told him that before the days of G12+, VW service personnel had a device or a sort of litmus test that could reveal the condition of G11 coolant in the system, the result would determine whether or not the coolant was due for replacement or not. Whereas this test was lost with introduction of G12+ formula. There may have been some other particular benefit as well, perhaps to do with original head studs V stainless steel alternatives, but I've since forgotten. In any event, it was the opinion of the semi-retired VW mechanic that we all should still be using G11 and not G12+ in our MV 2.1 water-cooled motors. In particular that G12+ was principally designed for later technology VW motors. I could perhaps seek greater clarity on this and any other matter if it was beneficial.

Cheers Roger. So far the count is seven members interested in the radiator. Lets keep it going ppl, the more the merrier!
Ken



-------- Original message --------
From: "Roger Bayley gullyraker53@gmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia]" <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 27/11/2015 10:51 PM (GMT+10:00)
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Radiator replacement



Good idea Ken. I have always dreamed of having a bleed-valve on top of the radiator, with a flexible hose, so that you can save the coolant expelled during the bleeding process without making a mess.

Perhaps an all-aluminium radiator would be the go, to dispense with the troublesome plastic tanks and O ring seals.

Can we start a new thread to gauge the interest out there. I'm thinking that the more that we order, the cheaper they will be.

Roger B.










16
The Gen 3 Subaru dash is not that complex nor is the cruise control once your have the circuit diagrams. 
17
So how good is that coolant priming idea I like it an tips ?
So its another Syncro I think I read a post about you picking it up Nice Machine
Cheers

On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 7:16 PM, manxdune@yahoo.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia] <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

The Gen 3 Subaru dash is not that complex nor is the cruise control once your have the circuit diagrams.


18

Looks like I should have read ahead before replying to older posts! For some reason, photo's don't see mto be coming through for me, so unclear on some of the other posts.


With regards to a simple one person bleed, what I did with mine was straight forward, it was a drain system through the bolts in the motor to remove as much coolant as possible to replace the radiator, then flush, drain and re-fill again. When re-filling,I filled the system as much as possible through the header tank then re-fit cap. Raise the front of the bus, then continued filling the radiator through the bleed screw.


Ran the engine to get to temperature etc, checked multiple times and had hardly any air come out the bleed screw this way.


Next time I do this, I will get one of the Go-westy pumps


Richard

19



Hi Rowan,
Could you please check all the following, return the list with any differences you find.
Model number I think is stamped on the bottom. Syncro radiator should read "068 121 253 E"
Core thickness around 45-50mm.
Overall width (outside to outside) of plastic tanks around 648mm.
Overall height around 455mm.
Centre to centre of bottom support lugs around 642mm.
Top left is the bleeder location.
Towards bottom right (frontside) is the thermo/fan switch position
Please report back your findings or queries.
Thank you. Cheers.
Ken

-------- Original message --------
From: "Rowan Hardinge rowan.hardinge@yahoo.com [Syncro_T3_Australia]" <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 29/11/2015 12:17 PM (GMT+10:00)
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com,Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Radiator Group Buy - Expressions of interest


 
I have a spare radiator in the shed Im just not sure if it is a syncro one or not. If it is it can be used for prototyping..  How can I tell? 



 
Thanks Ken,
You've done a great job of clarifying the subject.
The photos were particularly helpful.
Peter


--Original Message Text---
From: Ken Garratt unclekenz@hotmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia]
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 16:29:11 +1100






Hi Roger,
One thing I have learnt about accidentally expelling G12+ coolant is that it is a very effective albeit expensive lawn killer!


I've always lusted after a refill/air-bleed procedure that can readily be CONTROLLED by a SOLE operator ideally in a relaxed state of mind, with the convenience to be stationed only at the expansion tank from the moment after I've opened the radiator bleeder until I'm finished filling bleeding and ready to shut the motor down. By comparison, in my opinion the Bentley coolant change/bleed procedure is a disaster for a SOLE operator and never fails to fill me with terror!


RE your suggestion: "I have always dreamed of having a bleed-valve on top of the radiator, with a flexible hose, so that you can save the coolant expelled during the bleeding process without making a mess."
So Roger, to perhaps extend your dream idea further ... I've often wondered how to attach (seal) and run a small flexible hose from the radiator bleeder back to the expansion bottle, so creating a complete coolant loop for the fill/bleed procedure. This would enable complete control of coolant being fed into the system and at the same time, monitor for the cessation of bled air from the loop return hose. So maybe utilising your bleed-valve idea would do it. And to make the SOLE operator job even easier, I now fit a home made attachment to the expansion tank that elevates the fill position to a convenient height that is at least above the radiator bleeder level, dependent upon jacking height of the front of the van or not. So when satisfied with filling bleeding, I can cut the 2000 rpm of the motor and not be concerned with coolant back-flushing out of the expansion tank, as it otherwise tries to do. Works for me even without the coolant loop hose, but I reckon even better setup with it. See the pics of the home made attachment.


The only issue for me perhaps against modifying the present radiator bleeder arrangement would be if modifying to a bleed/valve design, whether that would then prevent being able to manually bleed air trapped in the radiator by simply squirting coolant into the bleed hole till it's full. I find this method of occasional air-bleeding the radiator pretty handy.


Grist for the mill? Any other ideas/comments, please feel free to add to the discussion.


On another issue to do with G11 verses G12+ coolant for our vans.
Note: I have no opinion myself on this, just passing along for others to be aware of and/or comment.


I was told recently by my local mechanic that the semi-retired VW mechanic we both know told him that before the days of G12+, VW service personnel had a device or a sort of litmus test that could reveal the condition of G11 coolant in the system, the result would determine whether or not the coolant was due for replacement or not. Whereas this test was lost with introduction of G12+ formula. There may have been some other particular benefit as well, perhaps to do with original head studs V stainless steel alternatives, but I've since forgotten. In any event, it was the opinion of the semi-retired VW mechanic that we all should still be using G11 and not G12+ in our MV 2.1 water-cooled motors. In particular that G12+ was principally designed for later technology VW motors. I could perhaps seek greater clarity on this and any other matter if it was beneficial.


Cheers Roger. So far the count is seven members interested in the radiator. Lets keep it going ppl, the more the merrier!
Ken



-------- Original message --------
From: "Roger Bayley gullyraker53@gmail.com [Syncro_T3_Australia]" <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 27/11/2015 10:51 PM (GMT+10:00)
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Radiator replacement



Good idea Ken. I have always dreamed of having a bleed-valve on top of the radiator, with a flexible hose, so that you can save the coolant expelled during the bleeding process without making a mess.

Perhaps an all-aluminium radiator would be the go, to dispense with the troublesome plastic tanks and O ring seals.


Can we start a new thread to gauge the interest out there. I'm thinking that the more that we order, the cheaper they will be.


Roger B.





















20
Hi Richard and all,
One for the musers.
GDraining old coolant and/or flush-out water prior to a complete new coolant mix refill, just wondering at what point DIYers stop the draining procedure and become satisfied the cooling system is in fact now FULLY drained. Or is near enough, good enough?
Cheers.
Ken



-------- Original message --------
From: "cathrich1@yahoo.com.au [Syncro_T3_Australia]" <Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 29/11/2015 11:56 PM (GMT+10:00)
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Radiator Group Buy - Expressions of interest


 

Looks like I should have read ahead before replying to older posts! For some reason, photo's don't see mto be coming through for me, so unclear on some of the other posts.


With regards to a simple one person bleed, what I did with mine was straight forward, it was a drain system through the bolts in the motor to remove as much coolant as possible to replace the radiator, then flush, drain and re-fill again. When re-filling,I filled the system as much as possible through the header tank then re-fit cap. Raise the front of the bus, then continued filling the radiator through the bleed screw.


Ran the engine to get to temperature etc, checked multiple times and had hardly any air come out the bleed screw this way.


Next time I do this, I will get one of the Go-westy pumps


Richard