re: Adjustable Voltage Regulator

1
Gday All,

This is an interesting topic being discussed at the moment on the USA
syncro forum at ... http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro/

It concerns the availability of a replacement internal or external
adjustable voltage regulator, available to suit many alternators,
including one for the syncro. Idea being is to achieve a faster and
deeper charge of onboard batteries.

For the source website and seller speal, goto:
http://www.davebarton.com/AdjustableVoltage.html

Just wondering whether or not this mod has any real validity and
perhaps even a downside not being admitted to on that website,
particularly should this mod be incorporated into what many of our Oz
syncro campervans have in the way of a 2 battery configuration
managed by an electronic isolation device.

What immediately comes to my mind is the possible potential for
overloading/damaging the alternator and as well, damaging batteries,
particularly if they are of an unsuitable type.

Is this of interest to anyone? I'm wondering whether or not this mod
does have some merit and perhaps may well be a very cheap alternative
(agreed somewhat of a compromise) to a "Smart" regulator electronic
device, which I believe is the ultimate voltage and battery charging
management device for our 2 battery campervans but unfortunately,
they are very expensive.

Cheers.
Ken
2
This has merit if you have a diode type battery isolator for dual batteries to counteract the 0,6v voltage drop. Otherwise I can just see shortened battery life.



> Ken <unclekenz@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Gday All,
>
> This is an interesting topic being discussed at the moment on the USA
> syncro forum at ... http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro/
>
> It concerns the availability of a replacement internal or external
> adjustable voltage regulator, available to suit many alternators,
> including one for the syncro. Idea being is to achieve a faster and
> deeper charge of onboard batteries.
>
> For the source website and seller speal, goto:
> http://www.davebarton.com/AdjustableVoltage.html
>
> Just wondering whether or not this mod has any real validity and
> perhaps even a downside not being admitted to on that website,
> particularly should this mod be incorporated into what many of our Oz
> syncro campervans have in the way of a 2 battery configuration
> managed by an electronic isolation device.
>
> What immediately comes to my mind is the possible potential for
> overloading/damaging the alternator and as well, damaging batteries,
> particularly if they are of an unsuitable type.
>
> Is this of interest to anyone? I'm wondering whether or not this mod
> does have some merit and perhaps may well be a very cheap alternative
> (agreed somewhat of a compromise) to a "Smart" regulator electronic
> device, which I believe is the ultimate voltage and battery charging
> management device for our 2 battery campervans but unfortunately,
> they are very expensive.
>
> Cheers.
> Ken
3
Ken,
 
This is a fairly involved matter.  My knowledge of electrical systems has never been very great and I recently bought a book called "Motorhome Electrics" by Collyn Rivers to add to my understanding.  It is written in commendable and very understandable detail.  He is an electrical engineer with extensive experience in motor vehicle electrics, particularly campervans and including solar arrays.
 
He describes in detail how the regulator side of the conventional alternator works and shows that it is a compromise designed to supply enough electrical power to start the vehicle when needed and otherwise allow the alternator to furnish the power to run the other components in the system.  The end result is that the vehicle battery never gets above about 70% charge, even after continuous driving.
 
He explains that campervans and motorhomes have very different requirements and gives a lot of detail about how this is at odds with the compromise of the average alternator and regulator.  He nominates the 'smart' regulator as the means of overcoming this limitation and getting both the main and auxiliary battery/batteries up to near maximum charge.  It does this by managing both voltage and amperage output of the alternator in three progressive stages to overcome the amperage drop in the compromise system.
 
There is quite a lot of River's work on the Internet.  Search for "Collyn Rivers".
 
Les
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] re: Adjustable Voltage Regulator

This has merit if you have a diode type battery isolator for dual batteries to counteract the 0,6v voltage drop. Otherwise I can just see shortened battery life.

> Ken <unclekenz@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> Gday All,
>
> This is an interesting topic being discussed at the moment on the USA
> syncro forum at ... http://autos. groups.yahoo. com/group/ Syncro/
>
>

4
Do a search around the 4WD and motorhome sites about Collyn Rivers. A lot of his stuff does not apply to the real world if you know what I mean.

Phill



> Les Harris <leslieharris@optushome.com.au> wrote:
>
> Ken,
>
> This is a fairly involved matter. My knowledge of electrical systems
> has never been very great and I recently bought a book called "Motorhome
> Electrics" by Collyn Rivers to add to my understanding. It is written
> in commendable and very understandable detail. He is an electrical
> engineer with extensive experience in motor vehicle electrics,
> particularly campervans and including solar arrays.
>
> He describes in detail how the regulator side of the conventional
> alternator works and shows that it is a compromise designed to supply
> enough electrical power to start the vehicle when needed and otherwise
> allow the alternator to furnish the power to run the other components in
> the system. The end result is that the vehicle battery never gets above
> about 70% charge, even after continuous driving.
>
> He explains that campervans and motorhomes have very different
> requirements and gives a lot of detail about how this is at odds with
> the compromise of the average alternator and regulator. He nominates
> the 'smart' regulator as the means of overcoming this limitation and
> getting both the main and auxiliary battery/batteries up to near maximum
> charge. It does this by managing both voltage and amperage output of
> the alternator in three progressive stages to overcome the amperage drop
> in the compromise system.
>
> There is quite a lot of River's work on the Internet. Search for
> "Collyn Rivers".
>
> Les
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: plander@optusnet.com.au
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] re: Adjustable Voltage Regulator
>
>
> This has merit if you have a diode type battery isolator for dual
> batteries to counteract the 0,6v voltage drop. Otherwise I can just see
> shortened battery life.
>
> > Ken <unclekenz@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Gday All,
> >
> > This is an interesting topic being discussed at the moment on the
> USA
> > syncro forum at ... http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro/
> >
> >
>
>
5
Fortunately, a lot of it does.  In particular, he describes why many auxiliary installations never come up to expectations and how it is usually because very fundamental requirements have been overlooked by both amateurs and professionals.  This applies very particularly to refrigerators, where the wiring was never up to spec in the first place and much energy is lost in the wiring instead of actually driving the compressor.
 
Rivers also sorts out a lot of the problems with charging auxiliary batteries.  My original Trakka installation came with a simple relay that closed when the alternator stared charging.  It gave equal charge to both main and auxiliary batteries, regardless of their state of charge.  Modern systems distinguish between main and auxiliary; they don't put anything into the auxiliary until the main has reached around 13.2 or so, then begin to recharge the auxiliary.  Rivers explains this over many pages.
 
Les
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] re: Adjustable Voltage Regulator

Do a search around the 4WD and motorhome sites about Collyn Rivers. A lot of his stuff does not apply to the real world if you know what I mean.

Phill

6
> Les Harris <leslieharris@optushome.com.au> wrote:
>
> Fortunately, a lot of it does. In particular, he describes why many
> auxiliary installations never come up to expectations and how it is
> usually because very fundamental requirements have been overlooked by
> both amateurs and professionals. This applies very particularly to
> refrigerators, where the wiring was never up to spec in the first place
> and much energy is lost in the wiring instead of actually driving the
> compressor.


Yes that is correct and a common problem






>
> Rivers also sorts out a lot of the problems with charging auxiliary
> batteries. My original Trakka installation came with a simple relay
> that closed when the alternator stared charging. It gave equal charge
> to both main and auxiliary batteries, regardless of their state of
> charge.

It doesn't work like that. Both batteries will charge as required.






Modern systems distinguish between main and auxiliary; they
> don't put anything into the auxiliary until the main has reached around
> 13.2 or so, then begin to recharge the auxiliary. Rivers explains this
> over many pages.
>
> Les
>


That is generally unecessary. Modern alternators can charge both at once.
7
This product cannot possibly charge Batteries 100% or increase Battery
life. The Smart Regulators are the only units that have that ability
however a Smart Regulator should not be used on Flooded Batteries in
modern vehicles due to the high Equalisation voltage. For a
realistically priced Smart Regulator, check here:
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~bvdb/sar20.html

Michael.
8
Les and Phill and ALL,

Yes I do have that that publication, I know Phill has reservations but
really, in my view, anyone who owns a campervan, this is a MUST HAVE
publication, essential reading and ongoing ready reference/textbook.
Order it online.

On Page 15 there is a short item headed "Higher Voltage Regulators".
Also worth reading is Page 27 under Advantages (in my case for a deep
cycle AGM battery). Reading both, I think one can conclude there is some
merit in using an adjustable voltage regulator, provided conventional
batteries aren't being used. Certainly for my deep cycle AGM, it says
they handle higher voltages better and charge almost to 100%. Agreed
that charging higher than 14.4 vdc will shorten battery life, but not
properly maintaining conventional batteries does also. Clearly, any help
to get more energy into the camping battery to assist a 12vdc
refrigerator function longer when away from 240vac for more than a few
days, can only be a good thing. I do accept, throwing wads of cash at
this problem in more complicated ways can solve this problem, but that's
not the point of this post.

Which gets me back to my original reason for this post, utilising an
inexpensive adjustable voltage regulator, especially after reading the
speal on the promoters website and other syncro owners showing interest
as well on the USA syncro forum.

Any more thoughts and comments appreciated. Cheers.

Ken


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Les Harris"
<leslieharris@...> wrote:
>
> Ken,
>
> This is a fairly involved matter. My knowledge of electrical systems
has never been very great and I recently bought a book called "Motorhome
Electrics" by Collyn Rivers to add to my understanding. It is written in
commendable and very understandable detail. He is an electrical engineer
with extensive experience in motor vehicle electrics, particularly
campervans and including solar arrays.
>
> He describes in detail how the regulator side of the conventional
alternator works and shows that it is a compromise designed to supply
enough electrical power to start the vehicle when needed and otherwise
allow the alternator to furnish the power to run the other components in
the system. The end result is that the vehicle battery never gets above
about 70% charge, even after continuous driving.
>
> He explains that campervans and motorhomes have very different
requirements and gives a lot of detail about how this is at odds with
the compromise of the average alternator and regulator. He nominates the
'smart' regulator as the means of overcoming this limitation and getting
both the main and auxiliary battery/batteries up to near maximum charge.
It does this by managing both voltage and amperage output of the
alternator in three progressive stages to overcome the amperage drop in
the compromise system.
>
> There is quite a lot of River's work on the Internet. Search for
"Collyn Rivers".
>
> Les
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: plander@...
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] re: Adjustable Voltage Regulator
>
>
> This has merit if you have a diode type battery isolator for dual
batteries to counteract the 0,6v voltage drop. Otherwise I can just see
shortened battery life.
>
> > Ken unclekenz@... wrote:
> >
> > Gday All,
> >
> > This is an interesting topic being discussed at the moment on the
USA
> > syncro forum at ... http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro/
> >
> >
>
9
Are you having fridge problems Ken?

What sort of fridge do you have?

How much power does it use?

What auxillary battery do you have?

(I'll give you some ideas)

Yes a lot of the reference book is very helpful. Just don't take it as 100% perfect.

Phill



> Ken <unclekenz@yahoo.com> wrote:
>

Les and Phill and ALL,

Yes I do have that that publication, I know Phill has reservations but
really, in my view, anyone who owns a campervan, this is a MUST HAVE
publication, essential reading and ongoing ready reference/textbook.
Order it online.

On Page 15 there is a short item headed "Higher Voltage Regulators".
Also worth reading is Page 27 under Advantages (in my case for a deep
cycle AGM battery). Reading both, I think one can conclude there is some
merit in using an adjustable voltage regulator, provided conventional
batteries aren't being used. Certainly for my deep cycle AGM, it says
they handle higher voltages better and charge almost to 100%. Agreed
that charging higher than 14.4 vdc will shorten battery life, but not
properly maintaining conventional batteries does also. Clearly, any help
to get more energy into the camping battery to assist a 12vdc
refrigerator function longer when away from 240vac for more than a few
days, can only be a good thing. I do accept, throwing wads of cash at
this problem in more complicated ways can solve this problem, but that's
not the point of this post.

Which gets me back to my original reason for this post, utilising an
inexpensive adjustable voltage regulator, especially after reading the
speal on the promoters website and other syncro owners showing interest
as well on the USA syncro forum.

Any more thoughts and comments appreciated. Cheers.

Ken


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Les Harris"
<leslieharris@...> wrote:
>
> Ken,
>
> This is a fairly involved matter. My knowledge of electrical systems
has never been very great and I recently bought a book called "Motorhome
Electrics" by Collyn Rivers to add to my understanding. It is written in
commendable and very understandable detail. He is an electrical engineer
with extensive experience in motor vehicle electrics, particularly
campervans and including solar arrays.
>
> He describes in detail how the regulator side of the conventional
alternator works and shows that it is a compromise designed to supply
enough electrical power to start the vehicle when needed and otherwise
allow the alternator to furnish the power to run the other components in
the system. The end result is that the vehicle battery never gets above
about 70% charge, even after continuous driving.
>
> He explains that campervans and motorhomes have very different
requirements and gives a lot of detail about how this is at odds with
the compromise of the average alternator and regulator. He nominates the
'smart' regulator as the means of overcoming this limitation and getting
both the main and auxiliary battery/batteries up to near maximum charge.
It does this by managing both voltage and amperage output of the
alternator in three progressive stages to overcome the amperage drop in
the compromise system.
>
> There is quite a lot of River's work on the Internet. Search for
"Collyn Rivers".
>
> Les
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: plander@...
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] re: Adjustable Voltage Regulator
>
>
> This has merit if you have a diode type battery isolator for dual
batteries to counteract the 0,6v voltage drop. Otherwise I can just see
shortened battery life.
>
> > Ken unclekenz@... wrote:
> >
> > Gday All,
> >
> > This is an interesting topic being discussed at the moment on the
USA
> > syncro forum at ... http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro/
> >
> >
>
10
Phill, ... No my 12vdc Trakka Indel B fridge is just fine, been
refurbished, more efficient compressor, now auto senses and connects
directly to a 240vac supply when available, works well, love it and
wouldn't replace it for anything else. I challenge anyone to find an
equivalent 12vdc eutectic upright fridge that fits the space and has 110
litres capacity.

I accept the sensible and practical solution is to install a smart
regulator. I'm just exploring how to cheat around forking out wads of
cash to do it, that's all, hence the interest in the adjustable voltage
regulator. And my deep cycle AGM 100 amp battery is as big as the Trakka
battery box will accept, I'm not prepared to modify the setup to
increase that.

So Phill, I reckon I've done the full circle on this topic, the answer
is staring me in the face, I doubt there is any other practical solution
other than duplicating my solar panel to achieve at least 150watts total
and park in the sun more.

Methinks I need another gold mine.

Ken





- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
>
> Are you having fridge problems Ken?
>
> What sort of fridge do you have?
>
> How much power does it use?
>
> What auxillary battery do you have?
>
> (I'll give you some ideas)
>
> Yes a lot of the reference book is very helpful. Just don't take it as
100% perfect.
>
> Phill
>
>
>
> > Ken unclekenz@... wrote:
> >
>
> Les and Phill and ALL,
>
> Yes I do have that that publication, I know Phill has reservations but
> really, in my view, anyone who owns a campervan, this is a MUST HAVE
> publication, essential reading and ongoing ready reference/textbook.
> Order it online.
>
> On Page 15 there is a short item headed "Higher Voltage Regulators".
> Also worth reading is Page 27 under Advantages (in my case for a deep
> cycle AGM battery). Reading both, I think one can conclude there is
some
> merit in using an adjustable voltage regulator, provided conventional
> batteries aren't being used. Certainly for my deep cycle AGM, it says
> they handle higher voltages better and charge almost to 100%. Agreed
> that charging higher than 14.4 vdc will shorten battery life, but not
> properly maintaining conventional batteries does also. Clearly, any
help
> to get more energy into the camping battery to assist a 12vdc
> refrigerator function longer when away from 240vac for more than a few
> days, can only be a good thing. I do accept, throwing wads of cash at
> this problem in more complicated ways can solve this problem, but
that's
> not the point of this post.
>
> Which gets me back to my original reason for this post, utilising an
> inexpensive adjustable voltage regulator, especially after reading the
> speal on the promoters website and other syncro owners showing
interest
> as well on the USA syncro forum.
>
> Any more thoughts and comments appreciated. Cheers.
>
> Ken
>
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Les Harris"
> leslieharris@ wrote:
> >
> > Ken,
> >
> > This is a fairly involved matter. My knowledge of electrical systems
> has never been very great and I recently bought a book called
"Motorhome
> Electrics" by Collyn Rivers to add to my understanding. It is written
in
> commendable and very understandable detail. He is an electrical
engineer
> with extensive experience in motor vehicle electrics, particularly
> campervans and including solar arrays.
> >
> > He describes in detail how the regulator side of the conventional
> alternator works and shows that it is a compromise designed to supply
> enough electrical power to start the vehicle when needed and otherwise
> allow the alternator to furnish the power to run the other components
in
> the system. The end result is that the vehicle battery never gets
above
> about 70% charge, even after continuous driving.
> >
> > He explains that campervans and motorhomes have very different
> requirements and gives a lot of detail about how this is at odds with
> the compromise of the average alternator and regulator. He nominates
the
> 'smart' regulator as the means of overcoming this limitation and
getting
> both the main and auxiliary battery/batteries up to near maximum
charge.
> It does this by managing both voltage and amperage output of the
> alternator in three progressive stages to overcome the amperage drop
in
> the compromise system.
> >
> > There is quite a lot of River's work on the Internet. Search for
> "Collyn Rivers".
> >
> > Les
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: plander@
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:44 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] re: Adjustable Voltage Regulator
> >
> >
> > This has merit if you have a diode type battery isolator for dual
> batteries to counteract the 0,6v voltage drop. Otherwise I can just
see
> shortened battery life.
> >
> > > Ken unclekenz@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Gday All,
> > >
> > > This is an interesting topic being discussed at the moment on the
> USA
> > > syncro forum at ... http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro/
> > >
> > >
> >
>
11
Gday Michael,

I could be wrong, but this SAR-20 reminds me somewhat of the Next Step
and Next Step 2 Alternator Regulator devices made by AmplePower in
Seattle USA. The SAR-20 you speak of would be similar to the Next Step
model, around $AU500 supply only a year or 2 ago.

Do you happen to know the current Australian supplier price for this
SAR-20 model?

Cheers.

Ken


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Blayney"
<embkb2@...> wrote:
>
> This product cannot possibly charge Batteries 100% or increase Battery
> life. The Smart Regulators are the only units that have that ability
> however a Smart Regulator should not be used on Flooded Batteries in
> modern vehicles due to the high Equalisation voltage. For a
> realistically priced Smart Regulator, check here:
> http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~bvdb/sar20.html
>
> Michael.
>
12
Michael,
 
Which product are you referring to and how much does this SAR20 smart regulator cost?  I can't find it on the website.
 
Les
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 12:06 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Adjustable Voltage Regulator

This product cannot possibly charge Batteries 100% or increase Battery
life. The Smart Regulators are the only units that have that ability
however a Smart Regulator should not be used on Flooded Batteries in
modern vehicles due to the high Equalisation voltage. For a
realistically priced Smart Regulator, check here:
http://homepages. ihug.co.nz/ ~bvdb/sar20. html

Michael.

13

Les,

This is on the New Zealand website .... prices in US dollars, no shipping allowance.

Goto: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~bvdb/us2008.pdf   Scroll down, there are 2 models listed ... SAR-20 and SAR-80.

The local supply source doesn't seem to list these regulators on their website .. well I haven't found it yet.

Ken


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Les Harris" <leslieharris@...> wrote:
>
> Michael,
>
> Which product are you referring to and how much does this SAR20 smart regulator cost? I can't find it on the website.
>
> Les
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael Blayney
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 12:06 PM
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Adjustable Voltage Regulator
>
>
> This product cannot possibly charge Batteries 100% or increase Battery
> life. The Smart Regulators are the only units that have that ability
> however a Smart Regulator should not be used on Flooded Batteries in
> modern vehicles due to the high Equalisation voltage. For a
> realistically priced Smart Regulator, check here:
> http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~bvdb/sar20.html
>
> Michael.
>

14

Les,

Just found this on google  ......... $AU352.00 for the SAR-20

goto: http://www.marinedirect.com.au/catalogue/category334/product60542

Ken


--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> Les,
>
> This is on the New Zealand website .... prices in US dollars, no
> shipping allowance.
>
> Goto: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~bvdb/us2008.pdf
> <http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~bvdb/us2008.pdf> Scroll down, there are
> 2 models listed ... SAR-20 and SAR-80.
>
> The local supply source doesn't seem to list these regulators on their
> website .. well I haven't found it yet.
>
> Ken
>
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Les Harris"
> leslieharris@ wrote:
> >
> > Michael,
> >
> > Which product are you referring to and how much does this SAR20 smart
> regulator cost? I can't find it on the website.
> >
> > Les
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Michael Blayney
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 12:06 PM
> > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Adjustable Voltage Regulator
> >
> >
> > This product cannot possibly charge Batteries 100% or increase Battery
> > life. The Smart Regulators are the only units that have that ability
> > however a Smart Regulator should not be used on Flooded Batteries in
> > modern vehicles due to the high Equalisation voltage. For a
> > realistically priced Smart Regulator, check here:
> > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~bvdb/sar20.html
> >
> > Michael.
> >
>

15
The smart regulator would maybe a partial solution maybe only.

Deep cycle battery 100AH (good move)

Ken

Do you have good thick cables to your deep cycle battery?

Suggestions (you may be doing this already)

Charge battery at home from 240v before you leave.
Make sure everything is cold before you put in fridge.
Run fridge on 240v days before you leave.
Your solar panel idea sounds good. Put it on an extension lead and put it out in the sun.

I really don't like the idea of an adjustable regulator. They would cost no more for VW to build. The voltage is set at the factory for a reason. Your electronics may not like the higher voltage if something is a bit marginal.

How many hours parked do you get out of your fridge?

Phill
16
--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
>
> The smart regulator would maybe a partial solution maybe only.

Yes, but add a bigger battery for a total solution. John Figgis on our
List from Sydney solved the problem running out of 12vdc to run his
campervan upright fridge when away from 240vac for extended periods. Did
it years ago. He added a smart regulator together with (from memory) a
250ah conventional lead/acid battery under the rear folding seat.
Keeping the fridge cold ever since has been a non issue. Ring him, he'll
confirm it. And he doesn't like solar panels. He chose to avoid the
fickleness of sunshine availability and he can park in the shade and he
doesn't have to spend a small fortune on a 2 panel (minimum) solar
system.

In other words, for the duration of time his van is being driven, John's
regulated system utilises higher volts to charge, a quicker charge, a
deeper charge (90% plus) and a much greater volume of stored energy. The
stock Trakka system doesn't even come close. In fact the Trakka system
is really designed to be topped up by 240vac just about every other day
for it to keep a fridge cold, this also includes judicious turning off
of the fridge at night and avoiding as much as possible any other power
drain in the camper (lights etc.,) to try and conserve camping battery
energy for the fridge the next day.


> Do you have good thick cables to your deep cycle battery?

Yes I do and have minimal if any voltage drop.

> Suggestions (you may be doing this already)
>
> Charge battery at home from 240v before you leave.
> Make sure everything is cold before you put in fridge.
> Run fridge on 240v days before you leave.

Pretty standard practice for all but the first time novice.


> Your solar panel idea sounds good. Put it on an extension lead and put
it out in the sun.

Panel is on pop-top roof, can be hinged to face the sun, but more of a
novelty than practical. Realistically, the smart regulator is going to
quickly produce a lot more energy than this can ever do, this is just a
low key energy source really.

> I really don't like the idea of an adjustable regulator. They would
cost no more for VW to build. The voltage is set at the factory for a
reason. Your electronics may not like the higher voltage if something is
a bit marginal.

In effect , the smart regulator incorporates auto-sensing adjustable
regulation based on need, temperature etc.

> How many hours parked do you get out of your fridge?

Too many variables to be able to answer that. Essentially, over several
days (and when not driving daily for say 4 hours plus stints) it becomes
obvious the energy in the battery is depleting enough to cause the
fridge to struggle. Of course if one is tripping around in cool weather,
usually not a problem. Go on the Batemans Bay Tour in January ...
different story entirely.

Ken
17
> Yes, but add a bigger battery for a total solution.


That's correct. If your 100Ah is OK for 2 days, then a 250Ah is good for 5.




> In other words, for the duration of time his van is being driven, John's
> regulated system utilises higher volts to charge, a quicker charge,

Yes it will charge a bit quicker, but not a lot.


> deeper charge (90% plus)

Normal will charge 100%.


> In fact the Trakka system
> is really designed to be topped up by 240vac just about every other day
> for it to keep a fridge cold,

Did Trakka ever fit 3 way fridges in T3s?


> > Do you have good thick cables to your deep cycle battery?
>
> Yes I do and have minimal if any voltage drop.
>
> > Suggestions (you may be doing this already)
> >
> > Charge battery at home from 240v before you leave.
> > Make sure everything is cold before you put in fridge.
> > Run fridge on 240v days before you leave.
>
> Pretty standard practice for all but the first time novice.
>

Not everyone would research as much as you Ken.




>> In effect , the smart regulator incorporates auto-sensing adjustable
> regulation based on need, temperature etc.
>

I really don't believe all of the advertising of this.
18
This works for me. 130 watt kyocera panel.(permanent fixture on roof).
100AH agm battery. 3stage solar panel controller(regulator). ctek 240v
charger hard wired onto aux batt to top up at night at powered sites
(which i rarely use) Agood quality battery isolator (aust made) that
charges start batt first and then house batt. The panel controller i
have gives lots of useful information. Current voltage, amps going
in,total ah so far today, ah in 3 day history. Plasmatronics make a
controller that stores a months history. All running engel upright
compressor fridge that uses average 25ah per day. The panel puts in max
of 50ah and on overcast day about 15 ah. 100plus kg of battery under
the back seat is not necessary. Hope this helps Bill
19
I recently bought a book called "Motorhome Electrics" by Collyn Rivers
to add to my understanding. It is written in commendable and very
understandable detail. He is an electrical engineer with extensive
experience in motor vehicle electrics, particularly campervans and
including solar arrays.
>

Les he is not an electrical engineer.
20
Phill,
 
Qualifications are very strange things.
 
The Rolls-Royce V12 engine that powered the Hurricanes and Spitfires that saved Britain in the middle of 1940 was a very disappointing engine until an unqualified engineer had a close look at it and recommended a series of air-flow changes.  His suggestions were roundly rejected and the engine continued to under-perform.  Desperate times call for desperate measures.  The recommendations were applied and, suddenly, the engine belched fire and became a world-beater.  It certainly saved Britain, despite the defending aircraft being massively outnumbered.
 
Then there was a funny bloke called Phil Irving, with whom I had the pleasure of associating in the years after his association with the Brabham years of victory.   His engine designs were legendary but he did not have a PhD in engineering.  And there are similar funny blokes in the engineering world.  It might be worth mentioning that George Cayley was a farmer, but he was the person who established the need for three axis control of aircraft.
 
My qualifications would not get me in the door of any major engineering company today.  I joined Qantas as a cadet in December 1940 straight out of high school, when the only people who did degrees were those who wanted to go on to lecture at universities.  There was absolutely no question of Masters or PhD's.  Yet I eventually managed to be the engineer in charge of the building of many exciting prototype and proof-of-concept vehicles over a long period.  I repeat that if I presented myself at the door of the same company today, I would not even rate a first interview.
 
And this is true of a lot of fields of endeavour.  There are people, particularly in the early days of science, who have devoted a lifetime to exploring fields of knowledge and building up a bank of hard-won information before the rest of the world catches up with the fact that we do not know what we do not know.
 
I do not class myself along with them - they are the pioneers of many great advances of human thinking - but make the point that useful knowledge is not the province of latter day holders of a master's degree in a particular field.  I could quote examples that verge on the libellous but which are nonetheless sustainable..
 
Until such time as my knowledge exceeds that of Rivers, I will accept his experience as, at the very least, being far superior to my meagre knowledge. 
 
Les
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Phill
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 4:51 PM
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Adjustable Voltage Regulator

I recently bought a book called "Motorhome Electrics" by Collyn Rivers
to add to my understanding. It is written in commendable and very
understandable detail. He is an electrical engineer with extensive
experience in motor vehicle electrics, particularly campervans and
including solar arrays.
>

Les he is not an electrical engineer.