On Aug 14, 2009, at 3:55 PM, plander@optusnet.com.au wrote:
> Has anyone here actually compared a solid shaft to a good VC?
> Or have they had a defective VC and replaced it with a solid shaft
> and noticed a big difference?
>
> There must be merits for both configurations or Volkswagen would not
> have given us an option.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Several people have reported difficulties with the re-registration form. It is a Word 2003 document and should be actionable on most computers.
Process: Save it to My Documents, add the information, save the changes, return the document to me as an email attachment.
If all else fails, please send the information by email, don’t worry about the attached document.
Les
Brian, just amazing isn’t it, the LUPO would do me too , a mere 3ltrs/100ks , and then there is the UP , too much choice over there.
Yesterday we bought a Caddy Maxi, so I can restore the DOKA [Doppel Kabine]. Are you coming to Old Bar?? Ciao Hartmut
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Reed
Sent: Wednesday, 12 August 2009 10:49 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Vehicle Design Parameters
Hi Hartmut
Have a look here;- http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/top-vw-1-liter-car.htm
Not sure if we can post websites here. If it doesn’t come out that’s why.
BRIAN REED
FAIRFIELD NATURAL THERAPIES
185 Wingrove St
Fairfield, Vic. 3078
03 9481 5673 0407 319 521
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hartmut Kiehn
Sent: Wednesday, 12 August 2009 10:01 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Vehicle Design Parameters
Mark,
Would you have a pic of that 1 liter per 100 km VW ? I would love to see it. Diesel? Petrol? Or what. Hartmut
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Kofahl
Sent: Wednesday, 12 August 2009 9:48 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Vehicle Design Parameters
Les,
a good recent example of engineering a vehicle to a desired outcome for a
Retail Price is the Bugatti Veyron.
Interestingly, the man behind this 10-year engineering effort is one Ferdinand
Piech. A very interesting individual
- grandson of Ferdinand Porsche
- headed the development of the quattro all-wheel-drive system in the Audi in
order to conquer the World Rally Championship (successfully)
- was on the Porsche 906 then 917 racing program in order to win Le Mans 24-hr
enduro
- responsible for development of one of the most important aerodynamic advances
in automotive design - Audi 100 with flush fitting glass
- pioneered the 1l/100km vehicle at VW and drove this personally across Germany
to demonstrate
- approved the Veyron 16.4 program - a 10-year effort to produce the world's
fastest production vehicle with in requirement of 400km/h
Whilst Piech was at Audi during the 80s, his influence and reach has been well
documented and I dare speculate he would have been consulted on the Syncro
program. But that is not the point.
The man is surely to be known in history as one of the greatest vehicle
engineers - whether economy or speed or whatever purpose - it can be designed
and built as Les says.
On a side note - I have met Piech and found him to be somewhat aloof and not
terribly personable.
Mark.
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Les_Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
Ok, guys, cool it!
Every vehicle design in the world starts with a blank sheet of paper, on which is written what the vehicle is intended to do, what market it will appeal to and how much it will cost. Serious companies will assign percentages against desired feature so that it can be seen what needs to be traded off against what in order to achieve the desired outcome. Some vehicles start with a most impressive wish list but they are whittled down until a balance is reached between features, manufacturability and end retail price at the dealer’s showroom.
It is possible to design any vehicle to do anything. Do you want a road vehicle that has the cornering ability of a F1 Ferrari? No problem, apart from the $500,000 price tag. Do you want a top speed of 500km/hr? No problem – just add another $500,000. Need to carry 10 people? No worries – just add another $500,000. And so it goes on until the ultimate cost is $10 million in the dealer’s showroom.
Every motor vehicle that has ever been designed is a series of compromises. The end result is to make a profit and it is the intended retail price that dictates the extent of the compromises. It is interesting to see the percentage evaluation process working. It can be seen that insistence on a 95% functionality for one feature can slash the functionality of another five features to 20%. This is marketing suicide.
And so it is with the Syncro. Yes, it is possible to have a Syncro that rushes nonchalantly up rock strewn moraines (the 95%) and this reduces several other significant features to 25%.
Before anyone fills their lungs ready to shout me down, may I remind everyone that vehicle development engineers have to provide an objective justification for every choice they make. There is no such thing as a board of directors that will accept “well, I think it feels better with this feature fitted” as a reason for a design choice. It is empirical data or nothing.
Yes, it is possible to redesign the Syncro to rush up 100% gradients of sheet ice but not within the retail pricing framework. It is equally possible to redesign the Syncro to do 250km/hr with ten people on board. Anything is possible.
My professional view of the (eventual) choices made by the VAG/SDP engineers is that they offered the highest levels of vehicle functionality FOR THE RETAIL PRICING FRAMEWORK.
Les
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Martin Henning
Sent: 12 August 2009 18:53
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Solid Shaft
Always fun reading your posts :))) I can assure you, that SDP is/was
one of the most respectable companies in the area of 4WD transmission
lines. I can also assure you, that the every housewive would have
killed the syncro in NO TIME, if the solid shaft had been the default
option. But yes, i choose not to understand your point of view and so
do many others - in OZ and in DE :) I hereby congratulate you to your
outstanding understanding of the syncro and wish we all weren't so
f*cking stupid. Especially all those dumb*ss VAG/SDP engineers who
deliberately held back that dream machine!
I might have to re-re-register for that post, but my proper irony
wordlist got lost on the way.
Sorry,
Martin
Hi Hartmut,
Yes all the new diesels are pretty amazing. I reckon the 8 to 10L/100Km I get out of probably 2.5 tonnes of T5 4Motion is pretty good, especially given the performance. You should do well out of the Caddy. As for choice in Germany , I think a BlueMotion Sport diesel, or an R spec Scirocco would be pretty tempting as a second car.
(Token Syncro content; I used to get about 15 -18 on gas (thankfully) in my old Syncro).
I was out on a cruise with the Volkswagen Club today, and some of the guys were talking about a road trip to the Warwick VW drags in October, which, I think, is the same weekend as Old Bar. I’d like to go to one or the other, but I’m still deciding.
BRIAN REED
FAIRFIELD NATURAL THERAPIES
185 Wingrove St
Fairfield, Vic. 3078
03 9481 5673 0407 319 521
From:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Hartmut Kiehn
Sent: Saturday, 15 August 2009
7:02 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia]
Vehicle Design Parameters
Brian, just amazing isn’t it, the LUPO would do me too , a mere 3ltrs/100ks , and then there is the UP , too much choice over there.
Yesterday we bought a Caddy Maxi, so I can restore the DOKA [Doppel Kabine]. Are you coming to Old Bar?? Ciao Hartmut
From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
[mailto: Syncro_ T3_Australia@ yahoogroups. com ]
On Behalf Of Brian Reed
Sent: Wednesday, 12 August 2009
10:49 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a]
Vehicle Design Parameters
Hi Hartmut
Have a look here;- http://www.seriousw heels.com/ cars/top- vw-1-liter- car.htm
Not sure if we can post websites here. If it doesn’t come out that’s why.
BRIAN REED
FAIRFIELD NATURAL THERAPIES
185 Wingrove St
Fairfield, Vic. 3078
03 9481 5673 0407 319 521
From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
[mailto: Syncro_ T3_Australia@ yahoogroups. com ]
On Behalf Of Hartmut Kiehn
Sent: Wednesday, 12 August 2009
10:01 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australi a]
Vehicle Design Parameters
Mark,
Would you have a pic of that 1 liter per 100 km VW ? I would love to see it. Diesel? Petrol? Or what. Hartmut
From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
[mailto: Syncro_ T3_Australia@ yahoogroups. com ]
On Behalf Of Mark Kofahl
Sent: Wednesday, 12 August 2009
9:48 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a]
Vehicle Design Parameters
Les,
a good recent example of engineering a vehicle to a desired outcome for a
Retail Price is the Bugatti Veyron.
Interestingly, the man behind this 10-year engineering effort is one Ferdinand
Piech. A very interesting individual
- grandson of Ferdinand Porsche
- headed the development of the quattro all-wheel-drive system in the Audi in
order to conquer the World Rally Championship (successfully)
- was on the Porsche 906 then 917 racing program in order to win Le Mans 24-hr
enduro
- responsible for development of one of the most important aerodynamic advances
in automotive design - Audi 100 with flush fitting glass
- pioneered the 1l/100km vehicle at VW and drove this personally across
Germany to
demonstrate
- approved the Veyron 16.4 program - a 10-year effort to produce the world's
fastest production vehicle with in requirement of 400km/h
Whilst Piech was at Audi during the 80s, his influence and reach has been well
documented and I dare speculate he would have been consulted on the Syncro
program. But that is not the point.
The man is surely to be known in history as one of the greatest vehicle
engineers - whether economy or speed or whatever purpose - it can be designed
and built as Les says.
On a side note - I have met Piech and found him to be somewhat aloof and not
terribly personable.
Mark.
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Les_Harris <leslieharris@ optusnet. com.au> wrote:
Ok, guys, cool it!
Every vehicle design in the world starts with a blank sheet of paper, on which is written what the vehicle is intended to do, what market it will appeal to and how much it will cost. Serious companies will assign percentages against desired feature so that it can be seen what needs to be traded off against what in order to achieve the desired outcome. Some vehicles start with a most impressive wish list but they are whittled down until a balance is reached between features, manufacturability and end retail price at the dealer’s showroom.
It is possible to design any vehicle to do anything. Do you want a road vehicle that has the cornering ability of a F1 Ferrari? No problem, apart from the $500,000 price tag. Do you want a top speed of 500km/hr? No problem – just add another $500,000. Need to carry 10 people? No worries – just add another $500,000. And so it goes on until the ultimate cost is $10 million in the dealer’s showroom.
Every motor vehicle that has ever been designed is a series of compromises. The end result is to make a profit and it is the intended retail price that dictates the extent of the compromises. It is interesting to see the percentage evaluation process working. It can be seen that insistence on a 95% functionality for one feature can slash the functionality of another five features to 20%. This is marketing suicide.
And so it is with the Syncro. Yes, it is possible to have a Syncro that rushes nonchalantly up rock strewn moraines (the 95%) and this reduces several other significant features to 25%.
Before anyone fills their lungs ready to shout me down, may I remind everyone that vehicle development engineers have to provide an objective justification for every choice they make. There is no such thing as a board of directors that will accept “well, I think it feels better with this feature fitted” as a reason for a design choice. It is empirical data or nothing.
Yes, it is possible to redesign the Syncro to rush up 100% gradients of sheet ice but not within the retail pricing framework. It is equally possible to redesign the Syncro to do 250km/hr with ten people on board. Anything is possible.
My professional view of the (eventual) choices made by the VAG/SDP engineers is that they offered the highest levels of vehicle functionality FOR THE RETAIL PRICING FRAMEWORK.
Les
From: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com]
On Behalf Of Martin Henning
Sent: 12 August 2009 18:53
To: Syncro_T3_Australia @yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australi a]
Re: Solid Shaft
Always fun reading your posts :))) I can assure you, that SDP is/was
one of the most respectable companies in the area of 4WD transmission
lines. I can also assure you, that the every housewive would have
killed the syncro in NO TIME, if the solid shaft had been the default
option. But yes, i choose not to understand your point of view and so
do many others - in OZ and in DE :) I hereby congratulate you to your
outstanding understanding of the syncro and wish we all weren't so
f*cking stupid. Especially all those dumb*ss VAG/SDP engineers who
deliberately held back that dream machine!
I might have to re-re-register for that post, but my proper irony
wordlist got lost on the way.
Sorry,
Martin
On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Brian Reed <breed@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
Hi Hartmut,
Yes all the new diesels are pretty amazing. I reckon the 8 to 10L/100Km I get out of probably 2.5 tonnes of T5 4Motion is pretty good, especially given the performance. You should do well out of the Caddy. As for choice in Germany, I think a BlueMotion Sport diesel, or an R spec Scirocco would be pretty tempting as a second car.
(Token Syncro content; I used to get about 15 -18 on gas (thankfully) in my old Syncro).
I was out on a cruise with the Volkswagen Club today, and some of the guys were talking about a road trip to the Warwick VW drags in October, which, I think, is the same weekend as Old Bar. I’d like to go to one or the other, but I’m still deciding.
BRIAN REED
FAIRFIELD NATURAL THERAPIES
185 Wingrove St
Fairfield, Vic. 3078
03 9481 5673 0407 319 521
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hartmut Kiehn
Sent: Saturday, 15 August 2009 7:02 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Vehicle Design Parameters
Brian, just amazing isn’t it, the LUPO would do me too , a mere 3ltrs/100ks , and then there is the UP , too much choice over there.
Yesterday we bought a Caddy Maxi, so I can restore the DOKA [Doppel Kabine]. Are you coming to Old Bar?? Ciao Hartmut
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Reed
Sent: Wednesday, 12 August 2009 10:49 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Vehicle Design Parameters
Hi Hartmut
Have a look here;- http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/top-vw-1-liter-car.htm
Not sure if we can post websites here. If it doesn’t come out that’s why.
BRIAN REED
FAIRFIELD NATURAL THERAPIES
185 Wingrove St
Fairfield, Vic. 3078
03 9481 5673 0407 319 521
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hartmut Kiehn
Sent: Wednesday, 12 August 2009 10:01 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Vehicle Design Parameters
Mark,
Would you have a pic of that 1 liter per 100 km VW ? I would love to see it. Diesel? Petrol? Or what. Hartmut
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Kofahl
Sent: Wednesday, 12 August 2009 9:48 PM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Vehicle Design Parameters
Les,
a good recent example of engineering a vehicle to a desired outcome for a Retail Price is the Bugatti Veyron.
Interestingly, the man behind this 10-year engineering effort is one Ferdinand Piech. A very interesting individual
- grandson of Ferdinand Porsche
- headed the development of the quattro all-wheel-drive system in the Audi in order to conquer the World Rally Championship (successfully)
- was on the Porsche 906 then 917 racing program in order to win Le Mans 24-hr enduro
- responsible for development of one of the most important aerodynamic advances in automotive design - Audi 100 with flush fitting glass
- pioneered the 1l/100km vehicle at VW and drove this personally across Germany to demonstrate
- approved the Veyron 16.4 program - a 10-year effort to produce the world's fastest production vehicle with in requirement of 400km/h
Whilst Piech was at Audi during the 80s, his influence and reach has been well documented and I dare speculate he would have been consulted on the Syncro program. But that is not the point.
The man is surely to be known in history as one of the greatest vehicle engineers - whether economy or speed or whatever purpose - it can be designed and built as Les says.
On a side note - I have met Piech and found him to be somewhat aloof and not terribly personable.
Mark.
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Les_Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
Ok, guys, cool it!
Every vehicle design in the world starts with a blank sheet of paper, on which is written what the vehicle is intended to do, what market it will appeal to and how much it will cost. Serious companies will assign percentages against desired feature so that it can be seen what needs to be traded off against what in order to achieve the desired outcome. Some vehicles start with a most impressive wish list but they are whittled down until a balance is reached between features, manufacturability and end retail price at the dealer’s showroom.
It is possible to design any vehicle to do anything. Do you want a road vehicle that has the cornering ability of a F1 Ferrari? No problem, apart from the $500,000 price tag. Do you want a top speed of 500km/hr? No problem – just add another $500,000. Need to carry 10 people? No worries – just add another $500,000. And so it goes on until the ultimate cost is $10 million in the dealer’s showroom.
Every motor vehicle that has ever been designed is a series of compromises. The end result is to make a profit and it is the intended retail price that dictates the extent of the compromises. It is interesting to see the percentage evaluation process working. It can be seen that insistence on a 95% functionality for one feature can slash the functionality of another five features to 20%. This is marketing suicide.
And so it is with the Syncro. Yes, it is possible to have a Syncro that rushes nonchalantly up rock strewn moraines (the 95%) and this reduces several other significant features to 25%.
Before anyone fills their lungs ready to shout me down, may I remind everyone that vehicle development engineers have to provide an objective justification for every choice they make. There is no such thing as a board of directors that will accept “well, I think it feels better with this feature fitted” as a reason for a design choice. It is empirical data or nothing.
Yes, it is possible to redesign the Syncro to rush up 100% gradients of sheet ice but not within the retail pricing framework. It is equally possible to redesign the Syncro to do 250km/hr with ten people on board. Anything is possible.
My professional view of the (eventual) choices made by the VAG/SDP engineers is that they offered the highest levels of vehicle functionality FOR THE RETAIL PRICING FRAMEWORK.
Les
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Martin Henning
Sent: 12 August 2009 18:53
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Solid Shaft
Always fun reading your posts :))) I can assure you, that SDP is/was
one of the most respectable companies in the area of 4WD transmission
lines. I can also assure you, that the every housewive would have
killed the syncro in NO TIME, if the solid shaft had been the default
option. But yes, i choose not to understand your point of view and so
do many others - in OZ and in DE :) I hereby congratulate you to your
outstanding understanding of the syncro and wish we all weren't so
f*cking stupid. Especially all those dumb*ss VAG/SDP engineers who
deliberately held back that dream machine!
I might have to re-re-register for that post, but my proper irony
wordlist got lost on the way.
Sorry,
Martin