Wbx spark plugs

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Hi to all , just thought I'd share this bit of info with you. NGK 6bpet triple ground spark plugs fit in our vans and after a week of running them have to agree with all the Americans who have been raving about the performance boost they give the Wbxer. Credit to Greg E who put me on to them but hasn't yet tried them as he is still putting his engine together. Lots of info on the Samba about them. I bought mine from an E-Bay seller based in the UK . Price to my letterbox was $58 for ten. Enjoy reading the reviews and give them a go. Eddie .
2
Not having any luck here. Nothing comes up on Google or eBayUK or eBayUS or NGK sites for "NGK 6bpet" spark plugs. At the moment, The Samba forum isn't coming up here to search.
Can you please provide the relevant eBayUK seller item link you used to buy them and TheSamba topic link. TIA.
Cheers.
Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: bergodaz@ozemail.com.au
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 23:34:35 +0000
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Wbx spark plugs

 
Hi to all , just thought I'd share this bit of info with you. NGK 6bpet triple ground spark plugs fit in our vans and after a week of running them have to agree with all the Americans who have been raving about the performance boost they give the Wbxer. Credit to Greg E who put me on to them but hasn't yet tried them as he is still putting his engine together. Lots of info on the Samba about them. I bought mine from an E-Bay seller based in the UK . Price to my letterbox was $58 for ten. Enjoy reading the reviews and give them a go. Eddie .


3
This is the guy I bought from. Change quantity to 4 and you will automatically get a postage discount for additional items. Greg E
 
From: Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com>
To: _T3_Australia forum Syncro <syncro_t3_australia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, 6 October 2012 12:26 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Wbx spark plugs
 
Not having any luck here. Nothing comes up on Google or eBayUK or eBayUS or NGK sites for "NGK 6bpet" spark plugs. At the moment, The Samba forum isn't coming up here to search.
Can you please provide the relevant eBayUK seller item link you used to buy them and TheSamba topic link. TIA.
Cheers.
Ken
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com From: bergodaz@ozemail.com.au Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 23:34:35 +0000 Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Wbx spark plugs  
Hi to all , just thought I'd share this bit of info with you. NGK 6bpet triple ground spark plugs fit in our vans and after a week of running them have to agree with all the Americans who have been raving about the performance boost they give the Wbxer. Credit to Greg E who put me on to them but hasn't yet tried them as he is still putting his engine together. Lots of info on the Samba about them. I bought mine from an E-Bay seller based in the UK . Price to my letterbox was $58 for ten. Enjoy reading the reviews and give them a go. Eddie .
4
Try BP6ET

You can buy them anywhere.

I can't really see any extra hp.



> Ken Garratt <unclekenz@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Not having any luck here. Nothing comes up on Google or eBayUK or eBayUS
> or NGK sites for "NGK 6bpet" spark plugs. At the moment, The Samba forum
> isn't coming up here to search.Can you please provide the relevant
> eBayUK seller item link you used to buy them and TheSamba topic link.
> TIA.Cheers.Ken
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: bergodaz@ozemail.com.au
> Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 23:34:35 +0000
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Wbx spark plugs
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> Hi to all , just thought I'd share this bit of info with you. NGK
> 6bpet triple ground spark plugs fit in our vans and after a week of
> running them have to agree with all the Americans who have been raving
> about the performance boost they give the Wbxer. Credit to Greg E who
> put me on to them but hasn't yet tried them as he is still putting his
> engine together. Lots of info on the Samba about them. I bought mine
> from an E-Bay seller based in the UK . Price to my letterbox was $58 for
> ten. Enjoy reading the reviews and give them a go. Eddie .
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Sorry Ken, got my letters & numbers mixed up. As greg said the correct model is bp6et, bit confusing for a tradie to get this sort of thing right. Bit more difficult is to put up a link so I just googled Ngkbp6et and it came up with the appropriate thread.
Phill, Ive noticed better starting, smoother idle ,more instant throttle response & more than anything a willingness to race through the rpm's and rev higher. It's made more of a difference on my new wbx with different cam but can also pick the improvement on my stock 2.1 2wd. Oh yeah they are available locally but at $13 each, sorry Australia , I'm going offshore for my supplies.

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> Not having any luck here. Nothing comes up on Google or eBayUK or eBayUS or NGK sites for "NGK 6bpet" spark plugs. At the moment, The Samba forum isn't coming up here to search.Can you please provide the relevant eBayUK seller item link you used to buy them and TheSamba topic link. TIA.Cheers.Ken
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: bergodaz@...
> Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 23:34:35 +0000
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Wbx spark plugs
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> Hi to all , just thought I'd share this bit of info with you. NGK 6bpet triple ground spark plugs fit in our vans and after a week of running them have to agree with all the Americans who have been raving about the performance boost they give the Wbxer. Credit to Greg E who put me on to them but hasn't yet tried them as he is still putting his engine together. Lots of info on the Samba about them. I bought mine from an E-Bay seller based in the UK . Price to my letterbox was $58 for ten. Enjoy reading the reviews and give them a go. Eddie .
>
6
I just really can't understand how it could improve anything unless something else was wrong. What was the brand and condition of the old plugs?

Triple electrode plugs are not recommended for dual fuel systems. Probably because of the higher resistance of the fuel/air?????

BP6ET are the standard plugs for T4s.

Phill



> eddie <bergodaz@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> Sorry Ken, got my letters & numbers mixed up. As greg said the correct
> model is bp6et, bit confusing for a tradie to get this sort of thing
> right. Bit more difficult is to put up a link so I just googled Ngkbp6et
> and it came up with the appropriate thread.
> Phill, Ive noticed better starting, smoother idle ,more instant throttle
> response & more than anything a willingness to race through the rpm's
> and rev higher. It's made more of a difference on my new wbx with
> different cam but can also pick the improvement on my stock 2.1 2wd. Oh
> yeah they are available locally but at $13 each, sorry Australia , I'm
> going offshore for my supplies.
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Not having any luck here. Nothing comes up on Google or eBayUK or
> eBayUS or NGK sites for "NGK 6bpet" spark plugs. At the moment, The
> Samba forum isn't coming up here to search.Can you please provide the
> relevant eBayUK seller item link you used to buy them and TheSamba topic
> link. TIA.Cheers.Ken
> >
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > From: bergodaz@...
> > Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 23:34:35 +0000
> > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Wbx spark plugs
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> > Hi to all , just thought I'd share this bit of info with you.
> NGK 6bpet triple ground spark plugs fit in our vans and after a week of
> running them have to agree with all the Americans who have been raving
> about the performance boost they give the Wbxer. Credit to Greg E who
> put me on to them but hasn't yet tried them as he is still putting his
> engine together. Lots of info on the Samba about them. I bought mine
> from an E-Bay seller based in the UK . Price to my letterbox was $58 for
> ten. Enjoy reading the reviews and give them a go. Eddie .
> >
7
Hey Phil, I just know my buses and i know when they have an increase in performance, no matter how small it might be. The previous plugs were the bosch platnum and before that bosch standard plugs that van cafe reccomend, and before that the ngk b6es that are also a standard fitment to these vans. I tried them all for about a month each. I can understand how there might be something wrong with a twenty year old half a million kay injection/ ignition system, but how's a spark plug gonna fix that? Oh yeah I notice the same improvements with the lpg as well, in particular its ability to rev harder. Only thing I've yet to discover is fuel consumption, but will work this out soon. Eddie.

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
>
> I just really can't understand how it could improve anything unless something else was wrong. What was the brand and condition of the old plugs?
>
> Triple electrode plugs are not recommended for dual fuel systems. Probably because of the higher resistance of the fuel/air?????
>
> BP6ET are the standard plugs for T4s.
>
> Phill
>
>
>
> > eddie <bergodaz@...> wrote:
> >
> > Sorry Ken, got my letters & numbers mixed up. As greg said the correct
> > model is bp6et, bit confusing for a tradie to get this sort of thing
> > right. Bit more difficult is to put up a link so I just googled Ngkbp6et
> > and it came up with the appropriate thread.
> > Phill, Ive noticed better starting, smoother idle ,more instant throttle
> > response & more than anything a willingness to race through the rpm's
> > and rev higher. It's made more of a difference on my new wbx with
> > different cam but can also pick the improvement on my stock 2.1 2wd. Oh
> > yeah they are available locally but at $13 each, sorry Australia , I'm
> > going offshore for my supplies.
> >
> > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Not having any luck here. Nothing comes up on Google or eBayUK or
> > eBayUS or NGK sites for "NGK 6bpet" spark plugs. At the moment, The
> > Samba forum isn't coming up here to search.Can you please provide the
> > relevant eBayUK seller item link you used to buy them and TheSamba topic
> > link. TIA.Cheers.Ken
> > >
> > > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > > From: bergodaz@
> > > Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 23:34:35 +0000
> > > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Wbx spark plugs
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> > > Hi to all , just thought I'd share this bit of info with you.
> > NGK 6bpet triple ground spark plugs fit in our vans and after a week of
> > running them have to agree with all the Americans who have been raving
> > about the performance boost they give the Wbxer. Credit to Greg E who
> > put me on to them but hasn't yet tried them as he is still putting his
> > engine together. Lots of info on the Samba about them. I bought mine
> > from an E-Bay seller based in the UK . Price to my letterbox was $58 for
> > ten. Enjoy reading the reviews and give them a go. Eddie .
> > >
>
8
I read on a manufacturers site not to use triple electrode plugs with lpg.

I can't really see how a different plug can improve performance. Once the fire is lit, that's all it has to do. It doesn't really matter how big the spark is. It's just like being a little bit pregnant.

Also with lpg, make the gap smaller.

Phill



> bergodaz <bergodaz@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> Hey Phil, I just know my buses and i know when they have an increase in
> performance, no matter how small it might be. The previous plugs were
> the bosch platnum and before that bosch standard plugs that van cafe
> reccomend, and before that the ngk b6es that are also a standard fitment
> to these vans. I tried them all for about a month each. I can understand
> how there might be something wrong with a twenty year old half a million
> kay injection/ ignition system, but how's a spark plug gonna fix that?
> Oh yeah I notice the same improvements with the lpg as well, in
> particular its ability to rev harder. Only thing I've yet to discover is
> fuel consumption, but will work this out soon. Eddie.
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
> >
> > I just really can't understand how it could improve anything unless
> something else was wrong. What was the brand and condition of the old
> plugs?
> >
> > Triple electrode plugs are not recommended for dual fuel systems.
> Probably because of the higher resistance of the fuel/air?????
> >
> > BP6ET are the standard plugs for T4s.
> >
> > Phill
> >
> >
> >
> > > eddie <bergodaz@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Sorry Ken, got my letters & numbers mixed up. As greg said the
> correct
> > > model is bp6et, bit confusing for a tradie to get this sort of thing
>
> > > right. Bit more difficult is to put up a link so I just googled
> Ngkbp6et
> > > and it came up with the appropriate thread.
> > > Phill, Ive noticed better starting, smoother idle ,more instant
> throttle
> > > response & more than anything a willingness to race through the
> rpm's
> > > and rev higher. It's made more of a difference on my new wbx with
> > > different cam but can also pick the improvement on my stock 2.1 2wd.
> Oh
> > > yeah they are available locally but at $13 each, sorry Australia ,
> I'm
> > > going offshore for my supplies.
> > >
> > > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@>
>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Not having any luck here. Nothing comes up on Google or eBayUK or
> > > eBayUS or NGK sites for "NGK 6bpet" spark plugs. At the moment, The
> > > Samba forum isn't coming up here to search.Can you please provide
> the
> > > relevant eBayUK seller item link you used to buy them and TheSamba
> topic
> > > link. TIA.Cheers.Ken
> > > >
> > > > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > > > From: bergodaz@
> > > > Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 23:34:35 +0000
> > > > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Wbx spark plugs
> > > >
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> > > >
> > > > Hi to all , just thought I'd share this bit of info with
> you.
> > > NGK 6bpet triple ground spark plugs fit in our vans and after a week
> of
> > > running them have to agree with all the Americans who have been
> raving
> > > about the performance boost they give the Wbxer. Credit to Greg E
> who
> > > put me on to them but hasn't yet tried them as he is still putting
> his
> > > engine together. Lots of info on the Samba about them. I bought mine
>
> > > from an E-Bay seller based in the UK . Price to my letterbox was $58
> for
> > > ten. Enjoy reading the reviews and give them a go. Eddie .
> > > >
> >
9
Don't know about lpg & plug choice but I disagree with your claim that the size of the spark does not affect performance. That means that worn plugs are OK as long as they are still sparking just a little. We know that we all change plugs well before that happens. Also if what you say is correct then all the aftermarket ignition systems used by the drag & muscle car boys, that claim to give a bigger spark, are all a waste of time & money.
What does a smaller gap do for gas? Eddie.

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
>
> I read on a manufacturers site not to use triple electrode plugs with lpg.
>
> I can't really see how a different plug can improve performance. Once the fire is lit, that's all it has to do. It doesn't really matter how big the spark is. It's just like being a little bit pregnant.
>
> Also with lpg, make the gap smaller.
>
> Phill
>
>
>
> > bergodaz <bergodaz@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hey Phil, I just know my buses and i know when they have an increase in
> > performance, no matter how small it might be. The previous plugs were
> > the bosch platnum and before that bosch standard plugs that van cafe
> > reccomend, and before that the ngk b6es that are also a standard fitment
> > to these vans. I tried them all for about a month each. I can understand
> > how there might be something wrong with a twenty year old half a million
> > kay injection/ ignition system, but how's a spark plug gonna fix that?
> > Oh yeah I notice the same improvements with the lpg as well, in
> > particular its ability to rev harder. Only thing I've yet to discover is
> > fuel consumption, but will work this out soon. Eddie.
> >
> > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@ wrote:
> > >
> > > I just really can't understand how it could improve anything unless
> > something else was wrong. What was the brand and condition of the old
> > plugs?
> > >
> > > Triple electrode plugs are not recommended for dual fuel systems.
> > Probably because of the higher resistance of the fuel/air?????
> > >
> > > BP6ET are the standard plugs for T4s.
> > >
> > > Phill
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > eddie <bergodaz@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Sorry Ken, got my letters & numbers mixed up. As greg said the
> > correct
> > > > model is bp6et, bit confusing for a tradie to get this sort of thing
> >
> > > > right. Bit more difficult is to put up a link so I just googled
> > Ngkbp6et
> > > > and it came up with the appropriate thread.
> > > > Phill, Ive noticed better starting, smoother idle ,more instant
> > throttle
> > > > response & more than anything a willingness to race through the
> > rpm's
> > > > and rev higher. It's made more of a difference on my new wbx with
> > > > different cam but can also pick the improvement on my stock 2.1 2wd.
> > Oh
> > > > yeah they are available locally but at $13 each, sorry Australia ,
> > I'm
> > > > going offshore for my supplies.
> > > >
> > > > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@>
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Not having any luck here. Nothing comes up on Google or eBayUK or
> > > > eBayUS or NGK sites for "NGK 6bpet" spark plugs. At the moment, The
> > > > Samba forum isn't coming up here to search.Can you please provide
> > the
> > > > relevant eBayUK seller item link you used to buy them and TheSamba
> > topic
> > > > link. TIA.Cheers.Ken
> > > > >
> > > > > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > From: bergodaz@
> > > > > Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 23:34:35 +0000
> > > > > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Wbx spark plugs
> > > > >
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> > > > >
> > > > > Hi to all , just thought I'd share this bit of info with
> > you.
> > > > NGK 6bpet triple ground spark plugs fit in our vans and after a week
> > of
> > > > running them have to agree with all the Americans who have been
> > raving
> > > > about the performance boost they give the Wbxer. Credit to Greg E
> > who
> > > > put me on to them but hasn't yet tried them as he is still putting
> > his
> > > > engine together. Lots of info on the Samba about them. I bought mine
> >
> > > > from an E-Bay seller based in the UK . Price to my letterbox was $58
> > for
> > > > ten. Enjoy reading the reviews and give them a go. Eddie .
> > > > >
> > >
>
10
That means that worn
> plugs are OK as long as they are still sparking just a little.

They must spark every time. That is the problem.


Also if what you say
> is correct then all the aftermarket ignition systems used by the drag &
> muscle car boys, that claim to give a bigger spark, are all a waste of
> time & money.

Generally that is correct. Have you seen the IQ of the average muscle car boy?

> What does a smaller gap do for gas?

Gas/air mixture has a higher resistance so the spark cannot always jump the gap. That's why other high tension components do not last as long with gas.

Triple electrode are just longer lasting plugs. They were not designed for performance. I removed the triple electrode plugs from my Doka and it starts much better now. Probably because the plugs were old and the gap had opened up.

Phill
11
All,

Just to add to the discourse concerning choice of an NGK BP6ET spark plug for a WBX2.1 motor.

For starters, some detail from a spark plug retailer who yes, I concede, is trying to generate sales, but the info is interesting all the same:

Now check out this US WBX 2.1 engine rebuilders site, click on each topic item at the top for some clue as to what he does for a living and where he's coming from.

Now on TheSamba VW forum, he stated in the topic thread concerning choice of this same plug for WBX 2.1 engines ....

Quote: "I turned my back on exotic electrode metals for this particular ignition system many years ago; never seemed to work too smoothly with platinums. Copper core electrodes seem to have the right discharge characteristics to work smoothly with it. The BP6ET's have been my preferred plug for many years now."
AND ...
Quote: The triple grounding electrodes offer certain advantages for long-term wear so they do perform well for a lot of miles. The sharpness of the upper edge of the center pole is where the spark is focused, so sharing the load round and round makes that limited resource go farther before it all rounds off. I've found the same true for the Bosch tri-electrode ones, which are a good substitute. I slightly prefer NGK, though, but not for any real objective reasons, I've just preferred that brand for years. 

This WBX 2.1 engine rebuilder does appear to have some standing in the WBX 2.1 engine community in USA, interestingly so much so for his preference for this motor in T3s, to the exclusion of any other motor.

Be fair to say he has at least three objectives for using this plug in his rebuilds ... reliability, performance and longevity ... based in no small measure on his own actual rebuilding experience.

Now may the  discourse continue ................

Cheers.

Ken


To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: bergodaz@ozemail.com.au
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 06:18:01 +0000
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Wbx spark plugs

 
Hey Phil, I just know my buses and i know when they have an increase in performance, no matter how small it might be. The previous plugs were the bosch platnum and before that bosch standard plugs that van cafe reccomend, and before that the ngk b6es that are also a standard fitment to these vans. I tried them all for about a month each. I can understand how there might be something wrong with a twenty year old half a million kay injection/ ignition system, but how's a spark plug gonna fix that? Oh yeah I notice the same improvements with the lpg as well, in particular its ability to rev harder. Only thing I've yet to discover is fuel consumption, but will work this out soon. Eddie.

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@... wrote:
>
> I just really can't understand how it could improve anything unless something else was wrong. What was the brand and condition of the old plugs?
>
> Triple electrode plugs are not recommended for dual fuel systems. Probably because of the higher resistance of the fuel/air?????
>
> BP6ET are the standard plugs for T4s.
>
> Phill
>
>
>
> > eddie <bergodaz@...> wrote:
> >
> > Sorry Ken, got my letters & numbers mixed up. As greg said the correct
> > model is bp6et, bit confusing for a tradie to get this sort of thing
> > right. Bit more difficult is to put up a link so I just googled Ngkbp6et
> > and it came up with the appropriate thread.
> > Phill, Ive noticed better starting, smoother idle ,more instant throttle
> > response & more than anything a willingness to race through the rpm's
> > and rev higher. It's made more of a difference on my new wbx with
> > different cam but can also pick the improvement on my stock 2.1 2wd. Oh
> > yeah they are available locally but at $13 each, sorry Australia , I'm
> > going offshore for my supplies.
> >
> > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Not having any luck here. Nothing comes up on Google or eBayUK or
> > eBayUS or NGK sites for "NGK 6bpet" spark plugs. At the moment, The
> > Samba forum isn't coming up here to search.Can you please provide the
> > relevant eBayUK seller item link you used to buy them and TheSamba topic
> > link. TIA.Cheers.Ken
> > >
> > > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > > From: bergodaz@
> > > Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 23:34:35 +0000
> > > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Wbx spark plugs
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi to all , just thought I'd share this bit of info with you.
> > NGK 6bpet triple ground spark plugs fit in our vans and after a week of
> > running them have to agree with all the Americans who have been raving
> > about the performance boost they give the Wbxer. Credit to Greg E who
> > put me on to them but hasn't yet tried them as he is still putting his
> > engine together. Lots of info on the Samba about them. I bought mine
> > from an E-Bay seller based in the UK . Price to my letterbox was $58 for
> > ten. Enjoy reading the reviews and give them a go. Eddie .
> > >
>


12
Yes Ken, Chris is certainly up there when it comes to knowing his wbx stuff. I've got one of his oil coolers in my syncro and another on its' way across the Pacific for my 2wd. Ive also used a couple of his ideas in my syncro, and they work just as he said they would. He is also a gentleman to deal with. As for the plugs , I think Phill has nailed it in working out that their biggest plus is that they last longer. I also read somewhere that sometimes a standard plug will miss whereas a triple has less chance of this happening. So far mine are working well.
Phill, something to think about .Alfa Romeos have quite a few twin spark engines getting around. It may be that more spark = better performance.

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@...> wrote:
>
>
> All,
> Just to add to the discourse concerning choice of an NGK BP6ET spark plug for a WBX2.1 motor.
> For starters, some detail from a spark plug retailer who yes, I concede, is trying to generate sales, but the info is interesting all the same:http://www.sparkplugs.com/more_info.asp?AAIA=&pid=3908
> Now check out this US WBX 2.1 engine rebuilders site, click on each topic item at the top for some clue as to what he does for a living and where he's coming from.Goto: http://www.vanistan.com/Vanistan/vanistan_home_.html
> Now on TheSamba VW forum, he stated in the topic thread concerning choice of this same plug for WBX 2.1 engines ....
> Quote: "I turned my back on exotic electrode metals for this particular ignition system many years ago; never seemed to work too smoothly with platinums. Copper core electrodes seem to have the right discharge characteristics to work smoothly with it. The BP6ET's have been my preferred plug for many years now."AND ...Quote: The triple grounding electrodes offer certain advantages for long-term wear so they do perform well for a lot of miles. The sharpness of the upper edge of the center pole is where the spark is focused, so sharing the load round and round makes that limited resource go farther before it all rounds off. I've found the same true for the Bosch tri-electrode ones, which are a good substitute. I slightly prefer NGK, though, but not for any real objective reasons, I've just preferred that brand for years.
> This WBX 2.1 engine rebuilder does appear to have some standing in the WBX 2.1 engine community in USA, interestingly so much so for his preference for this motor in T3s, to the exclusion of any other motor.
> Be fair to say he has at least three objectives for using this plug in his rebuilds ... reliability, performance and longevity ... based in no small measure on his own actual rebuilding experience.
> Now may the discourse continue ................
> Cheers.
> Ken
>
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> From: bergodaz@...
> Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2012 06:18:01 +0000
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Wbx spark plugs
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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> Hey Phil, I just know my buses and i know when they have an increase in performance, no matter how small it might be. The previous plugs were the bosch platnum and before that bosch standard plugs that van cafe reccomend, and before that the ngk b6es that are also a standard fitment to these vans. I tried them all for about a month each. I can understand how there might be something wrong with a twenty year old half a million kay injection/ ignition system, but how's a spark plug gonna fix that? Oh yeah I notice the same improvements with the lpg as well, in particular its ability to rev harder. Only thing I've yet to discover is fuel consumption, but will work this out soon. Eddie.
>
>
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, plander@ wrote:
>
> >
>
> > I just really can't understand how it could improve anything unless something else was wrong. What was the brand and condition of the old plugs?
>
> >
>
> > Triple electrode plugs are not recommended for dual fuel systems. Probably because of the higher resistance of the fuel/air?????
>
> >
>
> > BP6ET are the standard plugs for T4s.
>
> >
>
> > Phill
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > eddie <bergodaz@> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > Sorry Ken, got my letters & numbers mixed up. As greg said the correct
>
> > > model is bp6et, bit confusing for a tradie to get this sort of thing
>
> > > right. Bit more difficult is to put up a link so I just googled Ngkbp6et
>
> > > and it came up with the appropriate thread.
>
> > > Phill, Ive noticed better starting, smoother idle ,more instant throttle
>
> > > response & more than anything a willingness to race through the rpm's
>
> > > and rev higher. It's made more of a difference on my new wbx with
>
> > > different cam but can also pick the improvement on my stock 2.1 2wd. Oh
>
> > > yeah they are available locally but at $13 each, sorry Australia , I'm
>
> > > going offshore for my supplies.
>
> > >
>
> > > --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, Ken Garratt <unclekenz@>
>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Not having any luck here. Nothing comes up on Google or eBayUK or
>
> > > eBayUS or NGK sites for "NGK 6bpet" spark plugs. At the moment, The
>
> > > Samba forum isn't coming up here to search.Can you please provide the
>
> > > relevant eBayUK seller item link you used to buy them and TheSamba topic
>
> > > link. TIA.Cheers.Ken
>
> > > >
>
> > > > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
>
> > > > From: bergodaz@
>
> > > > Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 23:34:35 +0000
>
> > > > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Wbx spark plugs
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
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> > > >
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> > > >
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> > > >
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> > > >
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> > > >
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> > > >
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> > > >
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> > > >
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> > > >
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> > > >
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> > > >
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> > > >
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> > > >
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> > > >
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> > > >
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> > > >
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> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Hi to all , just thought I'd share this bit of info with you.
>
> > > NGK 6bpet triple ground spark plugs fit in our vans and after a week of
>
> > > running them have to agree with all the Americans who have been raving
>
> > > about the performance boost they give the Wbxer. Credit to Greg E who
>
> > > put me on to them but hasn't yet tried them as he is still putting his
>
> > > engine together. Lots of info on the Samba about them. I bought mine
>
> > > from an E-Bay seller based in the UK . Price to my letterbox was $58 for
>
> > > ten. Enjoy reading the reviews and give them a go. Eddie .
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
13
Guys
Prob way off topic but did see on Gasoline that MSD ignition systems used on performance machines actually stands for Multiple Spark Discharge and from what it outlined was a multiple spark on the power stroke to aid combustion in the vortex of the burning gases as they force the piston down.
This system could be modified for high torque and traction control modes,
These systems burn large amounts of fuel at high rpm ,
The high RPM also causes spark distortion that these systems eliminate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSD_Ignition
Regards Pete

























































































































14

Eddie,

Twin plugs are more to do with flame propagation but induction technology has leaped ahead in the last decade.  Chamber shape and induction manifold shape, along with a highly precise and an infinitely programmable firing point have moved well beyond the designs that once made twin plugs advantageous.

Many aircraft engines have twin plugs but that is a redundancy measure for safety reasons.

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eddie
Sent: 08 October 2012 21:11
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Wbx spark plugs
Phill, something to think about .Alfa Romeos have quite a few twin spark engines getting around. It may be that more spark = better performance.


15
Flame propagation you say Les. Might have to read up on that one. Eddie.

--- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Les Harris" <leslieharris@...> wrote:
>
> Eddie,
>
> Twin plugs are more to do with flame propagation but induction technology
> has leaped ahead in the last decade. Chamber shape and induction manifold
> shape, along with a highly precise and an infinitely programmable firing
> point have moved well beyond the designs that once made twin plugs
> advantageous.
>
> Many aircraft engines have twin plugs but that is a redundancy measure for
> safety reasons.
>
> Les
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eddie
> Sent: 08 October 2012 21:11
> To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Wbx spark plugs
> Phill, something to think about .Alfa Romeos have quite a few twin spark
> engines getting around. It may be that more spark = better performance.
>
16

Eddie,

Flame propagation is the path taken by the flame as it spreads through the cylinder head until all or nearly all of the gas is ignited.  We tend to think of this as being instantaneous, why it is, but it is not an even spread.  Or, to be more correct, it wasn’t until the search for better fuel consumption started in earnest.

It is this development that has produced ever improving fuel consumption figures for the same power output in modern engines.  In a lot of cases, it is reduced fuel consumption and increased power.

This is all down to the flame propagation.  Until quite recent times, an amazing amount of fuel was not ignited and exited the engine through the exhaust valve!!  Some engines were so poor in this regard that unburnt fuel could be measured at the tailpipe!!

Les

 

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eddie
Sent: 08 October 2012 22:21
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Wbx spark plugs 

Flame propagation you say Les. Might have to read up on that one. Eddie.


17
> Peter Wilson <peterw1000@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Guys
> Prob way off topic but did see on Gasoline that MSD ignition systems
> used

> These systems burn large amounts of fuel at high rpm ,
> The high RPM also causes spark distortion that these systems eliminate.
> Regards Pete
>


I don't think that high RPM comes in to it with the WBX.
18
If triple electrode plugs were a WBX improvement, wouldn't VW use them?
They are a standard part.
Phill



> eddie <bergodaz@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> Flame propagation you say Les. Might have to read up on that one. Eddie.
>
> --- In Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com, "Les Harris"
> <leslieharris@...> wrote:
> >
> > Eddie,
> >
> > Twin plugs are more to do with flame propagation but induction
> technology
> > has leaped ahead in the last decade. Chamber shape and induction
> manifold
> > shape, along with a highly precise and an infinitely programmable
> firing
> > point have moved well beyond the designs that once made twin plugs
> > advantageous.
> >
> > Many aircraft engines have twin plugs but that is a redundancy measure
> for
> > safety reasons.
> >
> > Les
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eddie
> > Sent: 08 October 2012 21:11
> > To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Wbx spark plugs
> > Phill, something to think about .Alfa Romeos have quite a few twin
> spark
> > engines getting around. It may be that more spark = better
> performance.
> >
19
Les has hit on the reason, I believe, these plugs will give a more crisp acceleration. The flame front is starting in the right spot as vw designed with the plug location but importantly the spark has an open path outward toward the cyl and piston top. Combine this with the possibility of up to 3 sparks happening at once (three/broader flame front) and you have a real benefit. In the old days we used to "index" spark plugs. This was the practise of ensuring the side electrode did not shroud the flame front. You would use various methods to get the side electrode to stop when it was closest to the wall of the cylinder. The other and biggest advantage to these plugs is they don't have poor spark events at low rpm like the standard plugs do. Hence the idle becomes a lot smoother. Oh and if we are getting into talk about the development of the piston engine look out for some very high compression normally aspirated engines in a showroom near you. One of the reasons designers are being able to bring these engines to the market place is the work already done on flame propagation and quench dynamics. Greg E

From: Les Harris <leslieharris@optusnet.com.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 8 October 2012 10:37 PM
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Wbx spark plugs
 
Eddie,
Flame propagation is the path taken by the flame as it spreads through the cylinder head until all or nearly all of the gas is ignited.  We tend to think of this as being instantaneous, why it is, but it is not an even spread.  Or, to be more correct, it wasn’t until the search for better fuel consumption started in earnest.
It is this development that has produced ever improving fuel consumption figures for the same power output in modern engines.  In a lot of cases, it is reduced fuel consumption and increased power.
This is all down to the flame propagation.  Until quite recent times, an amazing amount of fuel was not ignited and exited the engine through the exhaust valve!!  Some engines were so poor in this regard that unburnt fuel could be measured at the tailpipe!!
Les
 
From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eddie
Sent: 08 October 2012 22:21
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Wbx spark plugs 
Flame propagation you say Les. Might have to read up on that one. Eddie.


 
20
They weren't around in the wbx days, I first saw them on Seat cars in the '90s. Vw nor any other car manufacturer will go back in time and re engineer a car no longer in production for the benefit of old customers. They will always concentrate on making the new product better than the old to convert these old customers. The bigger the gap in performance/technology the better. Vw would have been putting very little effort into the T3 by probably '87, T4 would have been on the tip of every ones tongue by then. Greg E

From: "plander@optusnet.com.au" <plander@optusnet.com.au>
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 9 October 2012 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Wbx spark plugs
 
If triple electrode plugs were a WBX improvement, wouldn't VW use them?
They are a standard part.
Phill

> eddie <mailto:bergodaz%40ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> Flame propagation you say Les. Might have to read up on that one. Eddie.
>
> --- In mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com, "Les Harris"
> <leslieharris@...> wrote:
> >
> > Eddie,
> >
> > Twin plugs are more to do with flame propagation but induction
> technology
> > has leaped ahead in the last decade. Chamber shape and induction
> manifold
> > shape, along with a highly precise and an infinitely programmable
> firing
> > point have moved well beyond the designs that once made twin plugs
> > advantageous.
> >
> > Many aircraft engines have twin plugs but that is a redundancy measure
> for
> > safety reasons.
> >
> > Les
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eddie
> > Sent: 08 October 2012 21:11
> > To: mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia%40yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Re: Wbx spark plugs
> > Phill, something to think about .Alfa Romeos have quite a few twin
> spark
> > engines getting around. It may be that more spark = better
> performance.
> >