Driving Lights

syncroaustralia · 1 September 2011 03:06

Hartmut,

True, but to be most effective, the fuse would need to be at the battery cable terminal on the solenoid and, after the battle I have just had, I don’t want to think about it! I will settle for a thick sleeve over the push button cable from the solenoid to where it reaches clear space in the engine bay.

Les

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Hartmut Kiehn
Sent: 01 September 2011 12:45
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Solenoid/Starter Problem

Could use an inline fuse. hart

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of plander@optusnet.com.au
Sent: Thursday, 1 September 2011 9:19 AM
To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Solenoid/Starter Problem

And, as Ben says, it is handy to have a button in the rear

> to be able to turn over the motor without starting it.
>
> Les
>

Just be careful of the location. An unfused +

Keep it short and well insulated.

unclekenz · 1 September 2011 06:48

Les,

Thanks for the detailed report. This is character building stuff! Definitely a once only job ... if you please!

I have mentioned this on an earlier occasion ... years ago when I had to get my starter out and back in and so was thinking about that dicky solenoid spade connection.

My auto electrician suggested the solenoid spade connection was a weakness in this setup, crud can foul it up over time, it'll fall off if not refitted correctly and so can be a problem.

So he suggested and did permanently solder on an extension wire to the spade connection, ran the wire back over the top of the solenoid and just back to the "firewall" where we then connected the existing wire spade socket and plugged it into the new spade plug on the extension wire. It's now better located, accessible, stays cleaner, can be routinely checked an/or disconnected/reconnected easily, in case I ever again have to remove the starter. Not had a problem since, touch wood.

Are you saying the removal of the actuator bracket with its 4 fasteners was quite doable in your "on your back" scenario? I'd always had the idea it's near impossible to get at all of them, meaning it was near impossible then to remove or swing the bracket out of the way.

Normally there is an allen key headed bolt that fastens the starter motor on its inwards side, it's nigh impossible to get at from underneath in your laying on your back scenario. But that bolt can be got at for removal and replacing from above the engine in the engine bay, that's how I did mine. Just loosen or remove the 2 nuts on the bolts that hold the metal crossover coolant pipes in place against the firewall. This allows you then to pull back the crossover pipes enough so you then have enough room to get your hand and your allen key tool in there, perhaps with a short extension for leverage, and bobs your uncle. Of course you can't see the bolt head, except with an extension mirror, but it's just a case of feeling about for a bit in that space to mate tool with bolt head. I found it a much simpler solution to an otherwise difficult problem.

I'm still unclear why the inner CV had to be removed.

I do remember having to pull back out of the way the coolant pipes. Tied them back to give me more space to work on the starter motor, on my back.

Ken

To: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com
From: leslieharris@optusnet.com.au
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 11:56:57 +1000
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Solenoid/Starter Problem

Ken,

The job had to be done on a cold, windy driveway, which is very limiting compared with using a hoist. I had to do everything flat on my back and this seriously restricts accessibility. Given that my back is 78 years old and has experienced many injuries from cycle racing, motorcycle racing, skiing and other activities that the young and reckless (read senseless) pursue, the access was even more difficult. Grumpy muttering flowed continuously down the driveway and the Vietnamese family next door added a lot of new words to their vocabulary.

I used a spray can of degreaser on the solenoid/starter and on the inner CV joint so as to minimize the amount of grot that would be dislodged. I removed the inner CV and also removed the complete actuator assembly because I needed all the access that I could manage. I removed the air cleaner and the moulded hose to the manifold to get access to the top bolt from the engine bay.

The nuts that held the starter both had to be spannered all the way off. (Tip: when you finally get them off, clean them well and run a tap through them. If the bolt thread looks iffy, wire wheel them to totally clean the threads and remove any burrs. On reassembly, the nuts then run on by fingers only.)

Remove the battery cable from the solenoid. Since the solenoid sits on top of the starter and I couldn’t clearly see the 50 terminal, I didn’t disconnect that until I had unbolted the starter itself. Because the coolant pipes are in the way and because of the flat-on-78-year-old -working position, the amount of wriggling necessary was enough to withdraw the starter; some of the wriggling would have been up and down no doubt. It went back in much the same way.

Under the prevailing circumstances – extremely difficult working position, having been without the vehicle for nearly a week and using the mountain bike for local shopping, I didn’t even look at the bush. Once I established that the starter ran instantly on the bench and since the end of the starter shaft was evenly polished, I gave the bush a miss. Had the vehicle been on a hoist, I would have drained the coolant system and dropped the two coolant hoses the give enough access to also change the bush.

The last root canal issue was getting the battery cable and the 50 terminal back on, plus the new push button lead. It is one of these cases of being able to see it or being able to get a hand in but not both. This part of the process is strictly Braille! Mercifully, the 50 terminal had a double spade and there was thus one available for the push button cable. The positive of the push button cable is a ring terminal that goes under the battery cable. The flow is to the push button and circuit is made to the 50 terminal when the button is pushed. It was probably this last phase in which the Vietnamese people learned the most new words.

There is an outstanding issue that must wait until I get access to a hoist. Somewhere back along the line, some ham fisted “mechanic” managed to break off the nose of the vac actuator shaft inside the diff lock operating shaft. This can easily be done when driving the roll pin in. I have made up a tapered aligning rod that I will use to get the roll pin right – after I have been able to extract the broken end!!

If you haven’t got a hoist, take the root canal option any day!

Les

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken Garratt
Sent: 01 September 2011 11:03
To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Solenoid/Starter Problem

Les,

Can you please briefly report on methodology used to get the starter motor out, issues such as ....

*tilting down the motor or not, if not, what you did

*removing the diflock actuator and its bracket or not, if not, what did you do

*removal of the brass bush in the bell housing ... method that worked

*any other "root canal surgery" issue you uncovered along the way that may be worth noting

Thanks. Cheers.

Ken

syncroaustralia · 1 September 2011 07:11

Answers interspersed

From: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Syncro_T3_Australia@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Ken Garratt
Sent: 01 September 2011 16:48
To: Syncro _T3_Australia forum
Subject: RE: [Syncro_T3_Australia] Solenoid/Starter Problem

Les,

Thanks for the detailed report. This is character building stuff! Definitely a once only job ... if you please!

I have mentioned this on an earlier occasion ... years ago when I had to get my starter out and back in and so was thinking about that dicky solenoid spade connection.

My auto electrician suggested the solenoid spade connection was a weakness in this setup, crud can foul it up over time, it'll fall off if not refitted correctly and so can be a problem.

So he suggested and did permanently solder on an extension wire to the spade connection, ran the wire back over the top of the solenoid and just back to the "firewall" where we then connected the existing wire spade socket and plugged it into the new spade plug on the extension wire. It's now better located, accessible, stays cleaner, can be routinely checked and/or disconnected/reconnected easily, in case I ever again have to remove the starter. Not had a problem since, touch wood.

This did cross my mind as I was fighting with it and I now regret that I did not take that extra bit of time to do it. I had already been off the road for many days but the most compelling factor was that my best mate, my 15 year old Burmese cat, became very ill. I had to rely on a neighbour to get me to the vet clinic with him (15km away) and I wanted to get mobile as quickly as possible. If I have to get under there again for any reason, I will certainly do this because that spade is one of the Braille jobs! Running it back through the firewall is an excellent suggestion, something that I probably would not have thought of.

Are you saying the removal of the actuator bracket with its 4 fasteners was quite doable in your "on your back" scenario? I'd always had the idea it's near impossible to get at all of them, meaning it was near impossible then to remove or swing the bracket out of the way.

That was reasonably doable. The worst part of it was getting the circlip off the diff lock operating shaft from the flat-on-back working position. That was a right bugger!!

Normally there is an Allen key headed bolt that fastens the starter motor on its inwards side, it's nigh impossible to get at from underneath in your laying on your back scenario. But that bolt can be got at for removal and replacing from above the engine in the engine bay, that's how I did mine. Just loosen or remove the 2 nuts on the bolts that hold the metal crossover coolant pipes in place against the firewall. This allows you then to pull back the crossover pipes enough so you then have enough room to get your hand and your Allen key tool in there, perhaps with a short extension for leverage, and bobs your uncle. Of course you can't see the bolt head, except with an extension mirror, but it's just a case of feeling about for a bit in that space to mate tool with bolt head. I found it a much simpler solution to an otherwise difficult problem.

Another Braille part of the job!

I'm still unclear why the inner CV had to be removed.

I did that to give myself a little bit more manipulating room. If the vehicle was on a hoist, it probably wouldn’t be necessary.

I do remember having to pull back out of the way the coolant pipes. Tied them back to give me more space to work on the starter motor, on my back.

The coolant pipes weren’t a major problem because they are soft and I could get my forearms past them fairly easily. A trained octopus would have been an advantage nonetheless.

Ken

_,___

unclekenz · 1 September 2011 09:02

Les,

Forgot this one in my last reply.

re: There is an outstanding issue that must wait until I get access to a hoist. Somewhere back along the line, some ham fisted “mechanic” managed to break off the nose of the vac actuator shaft inside the diff lock operating shaft. This can easily be done when driving the roll pin in. I have made up a tapered aligning rod that I will use to get the roll pin right – after I have been able to extract the broken end!!

I've reported this previously. It should just get pulled out using a strong magnet placed up against the shaft hole, unless there is a spur at the break point on the piece of shaft. It should thrill your neighbours ears some more should you discover that that bit of metal is indeed captured and you have to take the transaxle out, open it up before you can then remove the tiny offending piece of broken shaft. Feeling lucky?

If it pops out, go buy a lottery ticket!